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HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-17-2009 NAHMINUTES PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE 183 NORTH MAIN STREET LAKE ELSINORE, CA 92530 TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 2009 CALL TO ORDER Chairman Flores called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Vice-Chair Gonzales led the Pledge of Allegiance. ROLL CALL PRESENT: CHAIRMAN FLORES VICE-CHAIRMAN GONZALES COMMISSIONER MENDOZA COMMISSIONER O'NEAL COMMISSIONER ZANELLI ABSENT: NONE STAFF PRESENT Also present were: Acting Community Development Director Weiner, Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk, Public Works Director/City Engineer Seumalo, Planning Consultant Donahoe, Associate Planner Carlson and Office Specialist Porche. PUBLIC COMMENTS None CONSENT CALENDAR ITEM(S) 1. Minutes a. November 3, 2009 Recommendation: Approval Commissioner O'Neal requested a correction to the minutes on page three of six, paragraph four, which should read: Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 2 of 20 Commissioner O'Neal pointed out for many years he has requested the developers to go "green" with their designs. He suggested to staff to offer an incentive to the developers such as having their product advertised on the City's Web site. This would let the public know of a developer that offers energy smart housing and may encourage other developers to follow the same direction. MOTION was made by Commissioner O'Neal and seconded by Commissioner Mendoza approving the November 3, 2009 Regular Planning Commission Minutes. AYES: CHAIRMAN FLORES VICE-CHAIRMAN GONZALES COMMISSIONER MENDOZA COMMISSIONER O'NEAL COMMISSIONER ZANELLI NOES: NONE ABSENT: NONE PUBLIC HEARING ITEM(S) 1. Conditional Use Permit No. 2009-07. Variance No. 2009-02, and Minor Design Review for a Telecommunications Facility located at 422 Rancho Drive. Recommendation: a. Adopt a resolution approving Conditional Use Permit No. 2009-07 to permit the construction and operation of a telecommunications facility consisting of stealthed monopine with six panel antennas and one GPS antenna, and a four-cabinet equipment storage enclosure, and b. Adopt a resolution approving Variance No. 2009-02, granting relief from Lake Elsinore Municipal Code Section 17.76.100, and c. Adopt a resolution approving a Minor Design Review at 422 Rancho Drive Chairman Flores opened the Public Hearing at 6:04 p.m. Acting Community Development Director Weiner introduced Planning Consultant Donahoe who would provide a brief summary of the project. Planning Consultant Donahoe provided an overview of the project to the Commission. She indicated the site of the monopine is directly adjacent to Interstate 15 and the southbound on-ramp from Main Street. She noted the applicant has applied for a variance requesting permission to build the monopine to a height of seventy-five (75) feet. She stated the proposed tower is to be stealthed as a monopine which would blend in with the existing mature trees at the site that are similar in size and height. Staff recommends approval of the Conditional Use Permit based on the Findings and is subject to the Conditions of Approval. She Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 3 of 20 indicated the applicant is available to answer any questions the Commission may have. Monica Moretta, representing Royal Street Communications stated she agreed to the Conditions of Approval. Chairman Flores asked if there were anyone who wished to speak either for or against the project. There being no requests to speak, Chairman Flores closed the Public Hearing at 6:10 p.m. and brought the discussion back to the dais for Commissioner's comments. Vice-Chair Gonzales asked if the project would be going to the City Council for final approval. Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk replied by stating, "No, all of the entitlements would stop at the Planning Commission unless they are appealed". Commissioner Mendoza had no comments. Commissioner O'Neal had no comments. Commissioner Zanelli stated he has no objections to the project. Chairman Flores asked if this project would be delayed until the General Plan Update is completed. Acting Community Development Director Weiner responded by saying "The General Plan Update would not delay this project. The decision tonight would be final and allow them to pursue building permits and construct immediately". Chairman Flores asked if there were any different types of style that are being proposed for cell towers, such as billboards. Monica Moretta replied by stating wireless towers are mainly designed as trees such as pine, palm or elm. She stated her company is looking at existing structures being altered where the antennas would be hidden and would not have any visual impact. There being no further comments, Chairman Flores requested a motion. MOTION made by Commissioner Zanelli and seconded by Commissioner Mendoza to adopt Resolution No. 2009-54, adopting findings that the project is consistent with the Multiple Species Habitat Conservation Plan (MSHCP). Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 4 of 20 AYES: CHAIRMAN FLORES VICE-CHAIRMAN GONZALES COMMISSIONER MENDOZA COMMISSIONER O'NEAL COMMISSIONER ZANELLI NOES: NONE ABSENT: NONE MOTION made by Vice-Chair Gonzales and seconded by Commissioner Mendoza to adopt Resolution No. 2009-55, approving Conditional Use Permit No. 2009-07. AYES: CHAIRMAN FLORES VICE-CHAIRMAN GONZALES COMMISSIONER MENDOZA COMMISSIONER O'NEAL COMMISSIONER ZANELLI NOES: NONE ABSENT: NONE MOTION made by Commissioner Zanelli and seconded Commissioner Mendoza to adopt Resolution No. 2009-56, approving Variance No. 2009-02. AYES: CHAIRMAN FLORES VICE-CHAIRMAN GONZALES COMMISSIONER MENDOZA COMMISSIONER O'NEAL COMMISSIONER ZANELLI NOES: NONE ABSENT: NONE MOTION made by Commissioner Mendoza and seconded by Commissioner Zanelli to adopt Resolution No. 2009-57, approving a Minor Design Review for the Royal Street Communications Telecommunications facility at 422 Rancho Drive. AYES: CHAIRMAN FLORES VICE-CHAIRMAN GONZALES COMMISSIONER MENDOZA COMMISSIONER O'NEAL COMMISSIONER ZANELLI NOES: NONE Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 5 of 20 ABSENT: NONE 3. Zoning Ordinance Text Amendment No. 2008-04: A request to repeal Chapter 19.08 regarding Water Efficient Landscaping. Due to the complexity of this item, the minutes are transcribed verbatim from this point forward. Chairman Flores opened the Public Hearing at 6:20 p.m. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: Thank you Chairman and members of the Planning Commission. This is a request for a Zoning Ordinance Text Amendment in order to adopt Water Efficient Landscaping Guidelines. As you may be aware from the staff report, it indicates this is mandated per state regulations for the City to adopt Water Efficient Landscape Guidelines. We have included the state instructions for modifying the model ordinance or the States Model Ordinance for local adoption. Basically it talks about replacing quote un-quote local agency with the adopting agency name i.e. City of Lake Elsinore and other things of that nature that would customize the ordinance more for City use. Also one other change that I would like to point out from the State Ordinance is that our ordinance incorporates Riverside County friendly landscape guidelines. That would be replaced by City of Lake Elsinore Landscape Guidelines which should be before you by the end of the year. They have been reviewed and circulated in-house and would be more customized to the City of Lake Elsinore as more of a guideline to use for their water efficient landscaping. Associate Planner Carlson: Thank you Tom and Chairman Flores, members of the Commission, good evening. As Tom indicated, this is following the States guidelines from the Department of Water Resources. Basically we are going to ask to repeal the existing Chapter 19.08. Since that time the water levels have gone down and now they are asking us to conserve more. Staff held a public outreach with the community and developers and basically unveiled the draft in response to AB 1881. Western Riverside County basically has a uniform palate which makes it easier for the developers and certain stake holders. After we had that meeting it came out that the State would have a stricter code so we (the City) held off for a while. What you have now is a response to that, which Western Riverside County and Western Riverside County of Government (WRCOG) formed a water task force which staff attended. Basically this new ordinance is a regional document that all of the jurisdictions can adopt. The ordinance as seen now really tries to meet the reduce turf reduction requirements, more friendly landscaping, water reduction, that would help us to conserve more water. Chairman Flores: This is a Public Hearing and there are no requests to speak. Anyone wishing to do so may do so at this time. I will close the Public Hearing at 6:25 and bring it up to the Commission for discussion. Commissioner Zanelli: I realize that water conservation is important although I am looking at page 29 of 138 where it says The City of Lake Elsinore will coordinate with Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 6 of 20 local water purveyors to identify programs that enhance and encourage landscape water use efficiency such as: A. Tiered water rate structure B. Allocation-based conservation water pricing structure C. A rate structure at least as effective as the above options D. Irrigation audits and/or irrigation surveys E. Penalties for water waste Commissioner Zanelli: Who is the person that would be meeting with Elsinore Valley Municipal Water District (EVMWD) or the Elsinore Water District in terms of the rates structure, the penalties the irrigation audits or surveys? Acting Community Development Director Weiner: The ordinance itself has clear language assigning the Community Development Director or his/her designee authority. Commissioner Zanelli: Prior to this change of code, the last time the district implemented their tiered water rate structures, did we have any input or were we consulted on that in any way? Acting Community Development Director Weiner: You know we weren't. With this water efficient ordinance, it is the opportunity to be involved in that process and not be by-passed. If in fact we are going to partner with them or be involved with this process, I would be inclined to bring it to the Planning Commission and or City Council depending on procedurally what was appropriate in order to have that discussion. It looks like we are going to be directly involved instead of just the water district having the authority to do that. Commissioner O'Neal: As American's, we have ignored water conservation, green buildings and a lot of the things that we shouldn't have, and I include myself in this. However, I would have liked to have seen the State Model as well as the County Model Ordinance and I would have like to read the differences between the two. Frankly, I don't trust the County at all. The Multi Species Habitat Conservation Plan (MSHCP) which was suppose to be something about critters is really about a land- grab and frankly I don't trust WRCOG with anything. Drought tolerant landscaping whether it is in Northern California or Southern California, you know it exists everywhere. To say that Riverside County is a little bit different than everybody else, yeah well it is, but the principals are still the same. The second part is that Riverside County, Lake Elsinore and developer's need something that is consistent across the board is basically silly. When you have to send something to a landscape architect, they know what the score is in particular cities. There are lots of building codes that are different place to place and I don't really think that WRCOG's solution is necessarily one that we can embrace in Lake Elsinore, and frankly it leads me to why I am going to vote no on this. I am really quite frustrated when I read this to try to figure out whose policies. The Pardee project that came before the Commission last week is a good example of what is going to happen in neighborhoods. Then there is the situation where you have to have a license landscape architect. Well Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 7 of 20 frankly, if I design a home myself I don't have to go to a licensed architect to design my home so why would I have to go to a licensed landscape architect to do the landscaping. That's silly. There needs to be some flexibility. Finally, what really disturbs me are the tiered water rates. Again I emphasize I would love to vote for something that we construct that is Lake Elsinore driven and that addresses some of the concerns that I have. I think that we can craft something here and we could use the State Model Ordinance and WRCOG Model but we can also create our own model and it's just subtle changes and things that make it more fair and more interesting and dynamic. Commissioner Mendoza: I agree with my fellow Commissioner's. What I was thinking, Commissioner O'Neal had said it earlier is the tiered water rate structure. What kills me is that Elsinore Valley Municipal Water District (EVMWD) would go to a seasonal water rate and then if you use the same amount of water in September that you tried to use in October, your bill is double. But what kills me is that in October it was 85 degrees for 19 of the 31 days. But it is seasonal and so you are suppose to cut back. You can't explain that to EVMWD, so it goes back to the tiered water rate structure. Whenever I see anything like that, I am real cautious about supporting something like that, only because it just goes back to what our big water company wants to do and nobody out there regulates them. I don't know if anyone else has seen that or not, but there are no checks and balances for them in our area and it is frustrating. So when I see a tiered water structure and new guidelines for our city, I just want to cringe on it. Vice-Chair Gonzales: I agree with the other Commissioner's. I know my water bill is another issue altogether. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: I will clarify two things. The Water District was part of the task force. There were Water District's representatives as part of the task force that helped initiate WRCOG Model Ordinance. I want to remind the Commission that I understand some of the trepidation and concerns that the Commissioners have expressed regarding this ordinance. We have to keep in mind that if we don't adopt this local model, we are basically mandated to adopt the State Model. AB 1881 says that we must adopt this by January 1, 2010. Commissioner O'Neal: I'm confused by that statement. Are you suggesting that Lake Elsinore could not craft there own ordinance alone. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: We can craft our own ordinance. We would have to get the funding to do that and hire a landscape firm to do that in conjunction with planning staff in order to have it done appropriately. We can always adopt this and then come back with a Lake Elsinore Ordinance, if that is what staff is directed to do. That needs to go to City Council with that direction. We can always have a motion, if you so choose. I know the City Attorney had discussions with me about that as well. In terms of money to do that and the time frame we have to establish to meet the State guidelines, I think it is the lesser of the two evils to adopt WRCOG's model and then if we are seriously looking at doing a local ordinance then we could come back and do that. Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 8 of 20 Commissioner O'Neal: Then I am back to my original.... What makes WRCOG's model better than the States Model? Acting Community Development Director Weiner: It is all subjective. Commissioner O'Neal: Exactly, that's my point. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: It's a little more the language is tweaked somewhat. We can make minor changes, but it really is not too different than the States. Commissioner Zanelli: I hear what you are saying Tom, and the problem is not so much the language, the problem is that we have no control over the water district and the rates they charge. What I would like to see is the tiered rate. They picked arbitrarily dates of October through March or whatever. We have had Santa Ana winds in January when it has been 95 degrees. October is frequently a hot month, so to have this based on dates as opposed to climate based rate change to me seems unreasonable and unfair to the citizens. Beyond that, the appeal process and review, I would like to see the City have someone involved with that, because it is our citizens that are taking the beating on this when it comes to the tiered rate structure. It's not so much the ordinance itself that we have to adopt, but the fact that we have very limited control over the water district and I would really like to see the City be a more active partner in some of the policies that they have put forth. Commissioner O'Neal: How do you get past the neighbor against the neighbor? What are places like Temecula doing, where it is mostly built out? They don't have the same kind of problem there. Again, it points out it is just WRCOG does not necessarily look at Lake Elsinore. And I really think it is a serious problem when the guy across the street can water his lawn at noon any day of the week and I have to water my lawn between the hours of 8:00 p.m. and 9:00 a.m. Commissioner Mendoza: If this is going to change in January why is it being brought to us in November? If we do not take action on it, is it automatic structures that we have to uphold come January 10, regardless? Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: The government code mandates that the State adopt either the States Model Ordinance or a local ordinance that is as effective in the conservation of water as the States Model by January 1, 2010. So those are your two options. If you choose to take neither of those options, neither A or B, then the States Model would automatically apply to your city. So, by not adopting either the States Model or a local ordinance that is as effective in the conservation water as the States Model Ordinance, you are saying, OK as a city we are fine with adopting the States Model. Commissioner Mendoza: But we can adjust that after.....like we are still working on it now and we accept the States Model at 2010. We can adjust come February or March. Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 9 of 20 Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: Yes we could, but we just have to make sure that any adjustments that we make to the ordinance resulted in an ordinance that is as effective as or more effective in the conservation of water than the States Model. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: What I would recommend happen, if that is the direction that the Planning Commission wants to go....we can be directed to bring back a study session or just an informational report in order to get your feedback as to what you want to see in that ordinance. We can take information and try to apply all that we can that would stay consistent with the States and then do one of our own. It would really depend on what the Planning Commission wants to see at that point. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: We did have an ordinance a while back and we had an informational meeting. But the States guidelines became more restrictive and we had to change WRCOG at the last minute. Temecula and Riverside County have all recently adopted theirs in October. So we are right in line. We are actually number three in the order that have done it. I've checked with Murrieta because I believe they are in the process of getting theirs adopted, but I did not get a return call. Commissioner O'Neal: What I would like to get out of this is any reference to tiered water rates and specifically any endorsement by Metropolitan Water District Plans. I understand that there are all kinds of problems in Northern California with water and Southern California. It has been going on for some time. I used to build in Northern California and people use to yell at me because I was from Southern California and was washing my car in the driveway. They use to hate it because they got penalized. This was in the late 80's. This has been going on for a long time and they have finally found a way as to why you are not going to get any more water in Southern California. The second thing is I don't know how to do it, but to get away from neighbor against neighbor, because I recognized the need for developers and to endorse but it seems to me...... Acting Community Development Director Weiner: Chairman, we'll look into that. I'm not sure what part that you saw that may cause that. We will look to make sure that any grandfathering in or anything like that where one has to do and one doesn't. Commissioner O'Neal: My house is an example. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: Right, I want to confirm Commissioner O'Neal: Let's look at Pardee Homes. We had a bunch of people that were complaining about, well the new standard is horrible and we can't do this. OK that's fine, but now they are going to see the new standard doesn't apply to them, that only apply to what Pardee builds next. You see what I am saying..... unless you pull a permit, is the only way you get the new standard put on you. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: If this is adopted, and I'm not assuming what action the Planning Commission may take this evening and Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 10 of 20 subsequently the City Council, we can always come back and address these certain point in the code that can customize it to address those things. We are going to have to do some research obviously at that time, with the State to make sure things are consistent enough where they will say, yeah this is good or not. Then we can proceed. We will take all those things and apply as much, if not all. Commissioner O'Neal: I don't have a problem with the State Model and then adjusting it as we go along. Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: I see the provision that you are referring to. It's clear, absolutely. Commissioner Zanelli: Tom, if I may, is there a reference in the State Ordinance to where they are mandating tiered water rates structures? Acting Community Development Director Weiner: Yeah, the State Ordinance is... Commissioner Zanelli: Along with that obviously they are mandating penalties. I'm just curious what formula they are using. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: Yeah, there is a formula and they are leaving it. Actually, WRCOG has the mechanism to get us involved. What the local ordinance, the model ordinance is doing is getting us involved with the process to some extent. How much of a hammer we have, frankly is going to be tested when they want to do the official tiered rate and things like that. As it stands right now, we have no say over what the water district does in terms of tiered rates. Adopting this, according to this ordinance gets us a say. How much however, I think still has to be tested. Commissioner O'Neal: You see I totally disagree with that. By adopting WRCOG, we are officially recognizing tiered. By allowing the State model to be factored in, we are not making a statement one way or the other. To me, that is a big difference. I am not interested in endorsing tiered water rates, the way Metropolitan Water District has established it for all of the rest of them. My point is, the state mandates tiered water rates.... but the fact is that it is not done by WRCOG in concert with Metropolitan Water District, EVMWD and Elsinore Water District. Vice-Chair Gonzales: Who is going to monitor the penalties for water waste? Are we going to hire a water cop? Acting Community Development Director Weiner: You know, this ordinance talks about the Community Development Director or his designee. The water district has certain rights to enforce as well. So you are correct. Vice-Chair Gonzales: Are we going to have a double penalty, one from the City and one from the water district? Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 11 of 20 Acting Community Development Director Weiner: Well, I think we would work in concert to make sure that it didn't happen. The water district has the ability to do that. Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: I would like to make a quick point. I am hearing the discussion going in a direction that is away from the resolution that was drafted as part of the packet. The resolution that was drafted and was included in your agenda packet is a resolution recommending that the City Council approve the form of the Ordinance that you all have and have provided some very helpful comments. There are a couple of options tonight. We could have a motion on the resolution recommending that City Council approve this form of the ordinance that is in the packet or another option is to make an alternate motion to have the City Council consider adopting or recommending to the City Council that they adopt a State Model and, give staff direction to come back at a later date in the near future with proposed revisions to make the State model localized to Lake Elsinore. I think there is a third option to recommend to the City Council that the State Model Ordinance be adopted in its entirety without any direction for future revision. Then there is the option to send this back and do nothing. It sounds like you want to do something, and so one of the three options is the most likely to be considered. There are options for you to consider and you can continue to deliberate. Commissioner Zanelli: The issue is not so much the ordinance itself, it's the fact that we have no control over the rate structure, the penalties, the audits and these things which affect all of the citizens and would be shoved down their throats by EVMWD and we have no input to that. That's what I have an objection to, and whether we take the State model or the WRCOG, it's not going to change that. That for me is the important thing, the City somehow has a say in what is going on with this, because I have a neighbor behind me that got a $1,500 water bill and mine a few months ago was $500 dollars and it is outrageous. Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: Unfortunately the system is such that we can't impose ourselves on the water district. We are two separate local government entities. And we can to the greatest extent possible, create an atmosphere opportunity for collaboration and to work together to the best of our ability, but to the extent that we are shut down from the other side. We can't force ourselves upon the other side. Commissioner Zanelli: I understand that, but this has a major impact beyond the homeowners and all of the development that takes place in the City. Anytime someone wants to come in and put in a sewer system the costs are outrageous and it is killing development. Commissioner O'Neal: May I make a suggestion. Could we take a five minute break and think about how we want to approach this. I want to walk around and think about something here. Chairman Flores: Before we do that I would like to know if there are any modifications that we could do to page 29 of 138 where it states, the City of Lake Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 12 of 20 Elsinore will coordinate with local water purveyors to identify programs that enhance and encourage landscape water use efficiency. We could remove the remaining. Commissioner Zanelli: As I understood, that is State mandated. Chairman Flores: But we may modify and adjust which is still within reason of enhancement and encourage landscape water efficiency but remove the bullet A through E. Those efficiencies would be coordinated between the City and water purveyors or the coordinator who would be working with the purveyor for these penalties which would eliminate the entire issue on this one topic. Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: I think it is possible. Because the government code says, if we adopt our own ordinance the standard for doing so is that our ordinance is as effective in the conservation of water as the States model. The States model is designed with that purpose in mind, to conserve water, so the question that you want to ask yourselves is, is a tiered water rate structure the only way that the City could enforce this ordinance to ensure that water conservation was acknowledged and followed by the citizens of Lake Elsinore, and if your answer is, yes, tiered water rates are the only way to achieve that, then I believe you would have to list only item "A" on page 29. But there are other items that are listed here. Presumably these other methods that the City could use to encourage landscape water use efficiency. I don't believe this list is not exhausted. Usually when you have a list that is included in an ordinance and it is not exhausted, it is placed there to give some limited guidance on the types of things that would be possible and leads people down that path of thinking. If you take it away, it does eliminate the option. Tiered rates are still an option, but you're just not listing it expressly as an option. Commissioner Zanelli: They aren't an option, because we don't have control over that. We don't have control over any of these items because we don't control the water. Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: Well, we don't control the water rate that is correct. We have the ability to coordinate with local purveyors to identify programs such as tiered water rate structures. I think that the Chairman's point is a valid point, that you could eliminate A through E and the statement could be made that the City of Lake Elsinore will coordinate with local water purveyors to identify programs that enhance and encourage landscape water use efficiency. That is as effective as making this list. It doesn't take anything away, and it doesn't add anything. It says the same exact thing without using the words tiered water rates structure. Chairman Flores: They have asked us because of the "such as". It is not mandatory type of requirement that the water purveyor's ask the City to do. So by eliminating the A through E and accepting the proposal at a later date, I believe we could coordinate additional usage penalties and so forth and therefore eliminating the ,.such as" A through E. If that is made possible then the rest of the item that is presented to us today could continue and we would have no involvement until a later date for the additional A through E. Justin, reading through the material you Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 13 of 20 submitted for review, I did not see reclamation or irrigation water supplies usage for some sort of efficient landscaping. Is that something that is coming? Associate Planner Carlson: That is a good question. I want to say yes and no, but I do remember being at a task force meeting and someone brought that up. I want to say that had been included, but I'm not sure 100% because it wasn't going to be available in the next decade to single-family homes, but more for schools and high traffic areas. Chairman Flores: The City of Corona, for the water efficiency programs, they have dual ample systems which use reclamation supply throughout not only housing development but of course structures as industrial usage. This is something that needs to be placed in to this proposal for acceptance for City Council, so that we are prepared when that future distribution of reclamation water is brought to the City. In particular with the new homes that were discussed at the last meeting, reclamation water is going to be the second usage through out the area. So I was surprised that there wasn't anything mentioned since the efficiency means no usage of drinking water and non potable. Associate Planner Carlson: I can look into it. Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: I just noticed something that is in the State's Model Ordinance that is on this issue related to 19.08.140. It's listed on the 3`d page, the very last row, row 30, you will see the original text of the State's Model Ordinance says that a local agency may designate another agency, such as a water purveyor to implement some or all of the requirements contained in this ordinance. Local Agencies may collaborate with water purveyor's to define each entity's specific responsibilities related to this ordinance. On the next page it says, a local agency may designate another agency such as a water purveyor to implement some or all of the requirements contained in this ordinance. Local agencies may collaborate with their water purveyors to define each entities specific responsibility. So the States Model contemplates discretionary relationships between the local agency and the water purveyor. So the States Model does not mandate that the City collaborate with the water district. It says that the City may. So if you feel that you would like to recommend that this coordination be revised to either be eliminated entirely or to be left as is or to be left as is with the elimination of A though E, you have discretion to make that recommendation to the City Council. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: The may basically turns into a "will". Commissioner Zanelli: What does the State regulation say regarding water purveyor's necessity to even entertain any input from the local jurisdiction? Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: It says that you work out your relationship and define each entities responsibility. It doesn't mandate. Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 14 of 20 Commissioner Zanelli: In other words, it means nothing. Because there is no.... its not incumbent upon the water district to take any input from the City, even though the State regulator's say, we may and then they say, yes you may, but we don't really care because this is our bag here, and we do what we want to do. Commissioner Mendoza: In the same instance, we need to give the residents of our City something else to fall back on besides just what EVMWD tries to bite out of them. Commissioner Zanelli: I agree. That's what I don't like about this, that the citizens have no representation from their City in the application of this ordinance by the water district because that's actually whose going to be implementing this. The City is not going to be implementing this because we don't control the water rates, we don't control the penalties, we don't service the systems, and we have no direct control of the water district. Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: According to the State's Model Ordinance, the City does have an obligation to enforce penalties for violation of the Ordinance. You are right in a sense, but there is also more to it. The City doesn't have control to fine or lean a property should someone not pay their increased rate. We don't have control of the setting of the rates, but we do have control in other ways that we (the city) can exercise. Commissioner Zanelli: And what would those be? Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: I don't know. We would need to come up with them. Commissioner Zanelli: I'm not interested in penalizing anyone. I'm not interested in developing a tiered rate to penalize these people for living. I am all for water conservation but my point is, we have no control over what the district does in terms of their rates, and therefore our citizens are individually left to go fight their own battles with the water district. It is my feeling that the City should have some input or some representation for the citizens when it comes to these issues. That is what I don't see here. Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: I believe the reason you don't see that here is because that is a local government structural issue that is beyond the scope of this ordinance. That is an issue that would need to be worked out with completely different legislation. The water district is a stand alone entity. Just like Southern California Edison is a stand alone entity. We have to work together collaboratively if we want to provide the best services to our citizens. So, if the City of Lake Elsinore receives complaints from the citizens regarding the tiered water rates structure and all of that, then we would, and we do feel the need to convey those complaints to the water district we can do that much. But our government structure doesn't allow us to excerpt any sort of force over the water district itself. We will do our best to provide an ordinance that protects them in a way that we believe protects their interest in terms of water conservation, in terms of taxes, in terms of fees, to the best of our Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 15 of 20 ability, but to the extent that we would like to go and change some policy for another local governmental structure, our ability to actually effect the change is limited. It is tough, I know. Commissioner Mendoza: I think what we need to do is to establish some type of ordinance that supports our residents. What we can do is try to get an ordinance together where the residents, if they have to go fight and take it to court, it hopefully becomes case-law against the water district and there is another stepping stone for them to change it. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: If you do want to go that route Commissioner, if in fact that motion is made, if that motion is clear to also come back with modifications that the Planning Commission seems appropriate at a later date with a text amendment, we can do that shortly after the New Year. We can come back, get your feed back and then try to customize it that way as well. I just need to make sure that the motion is clear, that way when we take it to Council, they're clear as to what the Planning Commission is recommending, and if they are on board, we have clear direction as well. Commissioner Zanelli: If we were to eliminate the A through E, that is not saying that we endorse the tiered water rates, number one. Number two, the change I would like to make is where it says, the City of Lake Elsinore will coordinate.....[ would like to change the word will to shall. I would ask the Commissioner's if they would like to move forward with that. I mean I don't want to dump this back on to staff to come back..... Chairman Flores: Well, Commissioner Zanelli, I followed what our City Attorney stated. Commissioner Zanelli: "May" is a neutral non descriptive powerless word. Chairman Flores: You suggested "shall". Commissioner Zanelli: "Shall" is a strong word, it is not optional. "May' is an optional word. Chairman Flores: So "The City of Lake Elsinore shall coordinate". Commissioner Zanelli: That is what I personally would like to see. Chairman Flores: Would you want to eliminate A through E? Commissioner Zanelli: Yes. Chairman Flores: Do we have a motion? Commissioner Zanelli: I would like to make that motion that we adopt it with those changes if that is acceptable to the Counselor. Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 16 of 20 Vice-Chair Gonzales: What about the thing with the landscape architect. Commissioner Zanelli: I would be willing to strike that as well. I think that is a bit excessive. Vice-Chair Gonzales: It is on page 17. Commissioner O'Neal: It seems to me.... and I appreciate Commissioner Zanelli's approach to solve this problem, but it seems to me that it might be better to drop just a little bit and look Tom, you and I went through a lot of them today, that I haven't even expressed because I can't remember all of them. But there are a number of things that need to be addressed, I think. And I totally agreed, some of the language that you want to eliminate does solve some of those problems. Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: The form of the ordinance you have before you, is a form that you have had many comments on. So the options you have are to recommend to the City Council, that the City Council approve the form of the ordinance as it sits before you with no modifications. Option two is to approve the form of the ordinance as it sits before you with specific modifications that you all identify. Option three is an alternative motion, and what I mean by that is a motion not on the resolution that is in front of you but is a resolution that you make up verbally to recommend that the City Council adopt the State's Model Ordinance. Option four would be that you recommend that the City Council adopt the State's Model Ordinance with direction to staff if economically feasible to come back with a revised ordinance that is local to Lake Elsinore. Commissioner Mendoza: I strongly recommend we use option four because we can nickel and dime this thing the rest of the night. We can go with option number four where we recommend to adopt the State's Model Ordinance and then come back at a later time with the changes that we need to satisfy our residents and satisfy ourselves. I think if we move too fast, we are going to over look something. We need to go ahead and recommend that we adopt the State's Model Ordinance and come back, if possible for any changes to it. Chairman Flores: Would that be considered as an alternate motion? Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: if you would like to say "so moved". Commissioner Zanelli: Tom, do you have a ballpark figure as to what the cost would be to come back at a later time to redo an ordinance? Acting Community Development Director Weiner: I anticipate the cost to be minimal to none. I think we can certainly do it in house. I say that with a caveat that I do want to make sure I get all of the comments before I make that commitment. I am confident we can do it, very easily. Commissioner Zanelli: One, just for my own clarity, on the landscape architect as I read it, if an individual landowner has the square footage that falls into the Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 17 of 20 requirement, he is going to be forced to go out and spend thousands of dollars. I don't have a problem with requiring a landscape architect for a development that is an entirely different issue. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: We do have a solution to that. When we adopt our own landscape guidelines, which basically are pretty pictures that show you how to do certain landscaping, that is money we received from the water district to go out and get that done. A licensed landscape architect would have provided in our guidelines different examples for people to use. Commissioner O'Neal: Couldn't we also adopt some language that commercial ventures shall use California licensed, but private ones....do you see what I am saying? Acting Community Development Director Weiner: Absolutely. Commissioner O'Neal: I have one more question. In all of the discussion, you are primarily responsible for putting together this proposal. Do you see any kinds of pot- holes that we are stepping into? Associate Planner Carlson: No, in my opinion I thought the WRCOG was pretty close, but I am not a landscape architect. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: They are similar, just some language that has changed. Chairman Flores: Madam Attorney, is this the time for the motion? Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: Yes, I believe it would be appropriate if none of the other Commissioner's have any comments. Commissioner O'Neal: Well we have to repeal the first part anyway. Deputy City Attorney Winterswyk: If you don't vote on the proposed resolution, we would need to first have a motion to recommend that the City Council repeal the existing section 19.08 and we take a vote on that then we have the second motion which would be to recommend that the City Council adopt the State's Model Ordinance and recommend that the City Council direct staff, if financing is feasible, to come back with modifications to the States Model Ordinance to make that ordinance tailored to the City of Lake Elsinore and to conserve water as a efficient manor or more efficiently than the State's Model Ordinance. So we can take them one at a time and if you would like for me to repeat, I would be happy to do so. Acting Community Development Director Weiner: We do have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Zanelli. MOTION failed for the lack of a second. Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 18 of 20 MOTION made by Commissioner Zanelli and second by Vice Chairman Gonzales to adopt Resolution No. 2009-58 to repeal the existing Chapter 19.08 of the Lake Elsinore Municipal Code. AYES: CHAIRMAN FLORES VICE-CHAIRMAN GONZALES COMMISSIONER MENDOZA COMMISSIONER O'NEAL COMMISSIONER ZANELLI NOES: NONE ABSENT: NONE MOTION made by Commissioner O'Neal and seconded by Commissioner Mendoza to adopt Resolution No. 2009-59 recommending that the City Council adopt the State of California Model Water Efficient Landscape Ordinance and to further recommend that the City Council direct staff, if financially feasible, to come back to the Planning Commission and City Council with recommended changes to the State's Model Ordinance to make such Ordinance tailored to the City of Lake Elsinore in a way that is as efficient or more efficient than the States Model Ordinance in the conservation of water. AYES: CHAIRMAN FLORES VICE-CHAIRMAN GONZALES COMMISSIONER MENDOZA COMMISSIONER O'NEAL COMMISSIONER ZANELLI NOES: NONE ABSENT: NONE MOTION made by Vice Chairman Gonzales, and seconded by Commissioner O'Neal to adopt Resolution No. 2009-60A, recommending to the City Council adoption of Negative Declaration 2008-11 for Zoning Ordinance Text Amendment No. 2008-05. AYES: CHAIRMAN FLORES VICE-CHAIRMAN GONZALES COMMISSIONER MENDOZA COMMISSIONER O'NEAL COMMISSIONER ZANELLI NOES: NONE ABSENT: NONE Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 19 of 20 Acting Community Development Director Weiner: For the Commission's information, we did schedule this for the next City Council meeting, next Tuesday with the report to the City Clerk expecting the report by tomorrow morning. Based on the extensive discussion that we had this evening, we may continue it to the following meeting, but I have to see procedurally if that is acceptable based on the time frames that the assembly bill has us under. So just as a FYI we may have to continue it. If we do continue it, it would be the very next Council meeting. BUSINESS ITEM(S) None STAFF COMMENTS Public Works Director/City Engineer Seumalo commented on the following: He notified the Commission that staff would bring forward a proposal to the City Council to place a "dog park" at the Rosetta Canyon area. He stated there is funding and space. He wished everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS Chairman Flores commented on the following: • He thanked the Commission for the discussion regarding the water efficiency ordinance. • He thanked staff for the extra effort on working with the semi trucks leaving their trailers behind on Casino Drive. • He spoke of the excessive traffic at the Plaza shopping center between the hours of 4 to 6 p.m. and using the parking lot as a passage way to avoid the signal. Public Works Director/City Engineer Seumalo responded by saying he would discuss this with the City's Traffic Engineer. Vice-Chairman Gonzales commented on the following: • No comments. Commissioner Mendoza commented on the following: He spoke of the stop sign at La Strada and Summerhill and asked if that would be installed before Thanksgiving. Public Works Director/City Engineer Seumalo replied that it would be installed before Thanksgiving and stated it was to have flashing beacons, but have not receive that yet. He spoke of the grading at La Strada and how they have turned it into a mining facility and how they can get away with that without any environmental impact report. Public Works Director/City Engineer Seumalo responded by saying that the City Manager met with them today and a stop work notice has been issued. Planning Commission Meeting November 17, 2009 Page 20 of 20 Commissioner O'Neal commented on the following: He agreed with Commissioner Zanelli's comments on the telecommunication tower. I would have liked to have commented on the plans prior to construction. Commissioner Zanelli commented on the following: He spoke of the County's telecommunications tower that exceeds height requirements and would require a variance and the City has no input to that what so ever. Acting Community Development Director Weiner replied by saying the City received a written notification as well as all other jurisdictions sometime in August 2008. He stated he followed up in September to see if any other jurisdiction had any issues. Public Works Director/City Engineer Seumalo added Engineering did stop the work because we did not receive any approvals or any review opportunity, and we were directed by the attorney's office that the County is beyond our jurisdiction. ADJOURNMENT It was the consensus of the Commission to adjourn to the December 15, 2009, Regular Planning Commission meeting at 6:00 p.m. located at 183 N. Main Street, Lake Elsinore, CA. 92530. Vice-Chairman Gonzales adjourned the meeting at 7:47 p.m. JIMMY FLORES, CHAIRMAN Respectfully Submitted, DANA PORCHE OFFICE SPECIALIST III ATT ST: TOM WEINER ACTING DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT