HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-05-1988 NAH
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
5TH
DAY
OF
JANUARY
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:02 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Secretary Grindstaff.
ROLL CALL:
~ PRESENT: Commissioners:
Brown, Mellinger, Kelley, Brinley and
Washburn
ABSENT:
Commissioners:
None
Also present were Community Development
Planner Libiez, Assistant Planner Magee
Wilkins.
Director Miller, Senior
and Associate Planner
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brown to approve minutes of December 15, 1987,
as submitted, second by Commissioner Mellinger.
Approved 4-0 (Commissioner Brinley abstaining)
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Washburn asked the Secretary if there were any request to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Washburn
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
,...
1.
Conditional Use Permit 87-17 - Industrial Concepts I (Bob Fight)
- Assistant Planner Magee presented request to allow a sandwich
shop in a Commercial Manufacturing Zoning District pursuant to
Section 17.54.030 Item "D" of the Zoning Code. Located on the
southwest corner of Chaney and Minthorn, 551 Chaney Street Unit
"A" of Building 7 within the Chaney Street Center.
Chairman Washburn opened the public hearing at 7:06 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Conditional Use Permit
87-17.
Mr. Steve Brown, representing Industrial Concepts I, stated that
they agree with staff recommendation, and would answer any
questions the Commission may have.
-
Chairman Washburn asked if there was anyone else wishing to speak
in favor of Conditional Use Permit 87-17. Receiving no response,
Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished
to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn
closed the public hearing at 7:07 p.m.
Commissioner Brown asked why seating is being provided if it is
all take out food, referring to condition number 6.
Assistant Planner Magee stated that this was an option given in
case Mr. Fight decided to install tables later, and believes that
the maximum capacity established by the Fire Marshal would be
20.
Commissioner Brown asked if under the Conditional Use Permit if
we were not stating take out food only, and the applicant would
have to reapply for a sit-down restaurant.
Assistant Planner Magee stated that the Conditional Use Permit is
to allow a food service use within the Commercial Manufacturing
District.
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 5, 1988
Page 2
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 87-17 - INDUSTRIAL CONCEPTS ~ (BOB FIGHT)
CONTINUED
Discussion at the table ensued on restaurants with table seating
as opposed to take out only and if there would be any difference
in parking requirements; parking requirements for restaurants,
customer service and kitchen area, being defined in the Zoning
Code.
-
commissioner Brown stated that this is something that the Commis-
sion may wish to address at a study session; differentiate
between restaurants that only have take out food and ones that
have seating where people would remain on the premises.
commissioner Brown recommended that condition number 6 be
deleted, or have it state take out food only, since this was the
applipcant's request. It can be brought back under an amend-
ment or additional application if the seating is to change.
Commissioner Mellinger commented
stated that there should not be
premises after 6:00 p.m.
Commissioner Brinley asked if the restaurant would be opened on
weekends.
on the hours of operation and
any customer service on the
Mr. Fight stated that they would not be open on Sunday, but
possibly on Saturday depending upon the demand.
Chairman Washburn stated that if the area is partly to service
the people that are there, such as the school district, and they
are walking to the site they are not creating a parking problem,
if they choose to sit down at a few tables inside. __
Chairman Washburn called Mr. Fight to the podium to address
interior seating, condition number 6.
Mr. Fight referred to the floor plan and stated that his hope was
to eventually put in some seats, 12 or 14 seats, but first wants
to go out and deliver to the people right there in the area,
Warm Springs Industrial Park.
A lengthy discussion at the table ensued on interior seating;
possible parking problems and parking demand; proposal meeting
the parking requirements even if it were a sit-down restaurant
with 20 seats; County Fire Department approval; reviewing
proposal after six months to see if there is a need for seating
and if there is a parking problem; amending the application for a
restaurant, take out food and in house eating.
Mr. Fight stated that he would not put in any tables, but would
like to have a 7 foot x 8 foot counter with seven (7) stools, and
would amend the application and come back for review later on if
additional seating was necessary.
Motion by Commissioner Mellinger to adopt Negative Declaration
87-39 and approve Conditional Use Permit 87-17 based on the
Findings and the 6 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff --
Report with the following amendments:
Condition No.6:
"Interior seating shall not exceed ten
(10) stools."
"Hours of operation shall be between the
hours of 7:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m."
Condition No.7:
Second by Commissioner Brown.
Approved 5-0
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 5, 1988
Page 3
-
2. Amendment 88-1 City of Lake Elsinore - Associate Planner
Wilkins presented a request to amend Section 17.38.090 of the
Lake Elsinore Municipal for "Non-Residential Development
Standards" related to Gasoline Dispensing Establishments, which
would apply City-wide.
Chairman Washburn opened the pUblic hearing at 7:35 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Amendment 88-1. Receiving
no response, Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished to speak in
opposition. Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn asked if
anyone wished to speak on the matter. Receiving no response,
Chairman Washburn closed the pUblic hearing at 7:36 p.m.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on Item
setbacks for pumps, stating that his concern
be sufficient circulation for the dual semi
this has been taken into consideration.
"B", reduction of
would be that there
trucks, and asked if
Associate Planner Wilkins answered in the affirmative.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on alcoholic beverages, Item
"M", understands that we cannot ban this anymore, but there is a
sunset after two (2) years on the standards that they have to
meet, State Law minimum standards, and suggested that under that
we reflect the standards in AB 937, permanently.
Motion by Commissioner Mellinger to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration 88-1 and approval of an
ordinance based upon the Findings listed in the Staff Report,
with one change to Item "M" to reflect the minimum standards of
r- State Law on a permanent basis, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Negative Declaration 87-21 for Residential Project 87-4 - Curtis/
Elsinore Ranch Company - Associate Planner Wilkins presented to
the Planning Commission for review and recommendation for
adoption of Negative Declaration 87-21 for Residential Project
87-4 involving the construction of fifty-two (52) single-family
residential units on a 9.67 acre portion of the "Town of Lucerne"
subdivision. An 11.73 acre (gross) site located between Broadway
Street and st. Clair Avenue on the east side of California
Street, south of Robb Road.
Chairman Washburn asked if the applicant had received the Condi-
tions of Approval, Exhibit #6.
Mr. Larry Buxton, representing the applicant, answered
affirmative, stating that he would like to respond to a
the conditions.
in the
few of
-
Community Development Director Miller stated the conditions that
are attached as an exhibit are actually conditions of Minor
Design Review, attached for informational purposes, which is
delegated to staff, typically such items would not come to the
Planning Commission. The reason this item is before the
Commission is because of the action required upon a Negative
Declaration which requires public comment and hearing, so what we
are asking you to review is the Negative Declaration and the
environmental impacts.
Chairman Washburn asked Mr. Buxton if there were any new condi-
tions included that he would like to address, at this time.
Mr. Buxton stated that he would like to indicate that the
Hydrology Study that has been referred to is the document
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 5, 1988
Page 4
NEGATIVE DECLARATION 87-21 FOR RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 87-4 - CURTIS/
ELSINORE RANCH CONTINUED
provided separately from Thielmann Associates. This Hydrology
~tudy indicates that there was a new HEC-2 flood evaluation run
1n the project area. The reason for this additional hydrology
evaluation was that the Premier/citation Homes projects are no
longer going to be releasing water at the same point that would
have impacted this tract. __
Mr. Buxton requested the following verbiage be added to condition
number 9: "and as reflected on the plot plan, Exhibit #2".
Mr. Buxton requested that the last sentence in condition number
15 be deleted.
Mr. Buxton stated that in addition to a condition relating to
condition number 15, we received a letter dated October 13, 1987,
from Mr. Milo Keith, stated in the letter it says "I also
indicated that the City would through its Landscaping and
Lighting Maintenance District abilities collect annual fees from
the tracts to assist in maintaining the temporary earth drainage
facility". We would like reference to the maintenance within
this condition to be that we could do it through a Lighting and
Maintenance District as provided by this letter that we received
from Mr. Keith.
commissioner Mellinger asked if the Lighting and Landscaping fee
would be collected from the fifty-two units only and what benefit
would other tracts receive from this?
Mr. Buxton stated that there are several parcels, about 150,
below this project that would receive some degree of protection ~
from this berm.
Community Development Director Miller
more than willing to sit down with
concerns on these conditions and
solutions.
stated that staff would be
the applicant to discuss
work out mutually agreeable
commissioner Mellinger commented on the conditions stating that
if the applicant does not agree to the conditions then we are
looking at an Environmental Impact Report.
Mr. Buxton stated that maybe a time frame could be added, say
that if there was not an Assessment District in place within
twelve (12) months that it might be a consideration to put in
permanent irrigation system, because there is a construction
period involved with the tract itself.
commissioner Mellinger asked when
initiated and who would put it in.
the homes sold in three months,
gone.
Mr. Buxton responded twelve (12) months from commencement of
construction on the site and the developer could post a bond.
this time period would be
Concern would be if all of
everyone in and the developer
....
Mr. Buxton requested that the words "or model" be deleted from
condition number 18, and referred to letter dated July 22, 1987,
from the City to Great American First savings Bank.
Community Development Director Miller stated that the intention
of this condition was that the infrastructure should be extended
to serve whatever lots were being requested for release.
Mr. Buxton stated that the letter of October 13, 1987, referred
to concerning condition number 15 would also be applicable here,
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 5, 1988
Page 5
NEGATIVE DECLARATION 87-21 FOR RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 87-4 - CURTIS/
ELSINORE RANCH CONTINUED
-
and requested the following
facility, condition number 49:
Landscaping District".
verbiage added
"annexation to
after the word
a Lighting and
Community Development Director Miller stated that the letter of
October 13, 1987, was drafted at a time when a different facility
was being proposed, and the city Engineer has indicated to
Planning Staff that he would not support the use of the
Landscaping . and Lighting Assessment District to maintain the
present facility being considered as Alternative "B", and at this
point in time appears to be the most likely facility.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that his only question is if a
Lighting and Landscaping Maintenance District can maintain a
flood control facility, is it even legal--would like clarifica-
tion. Secondly, is this Landscaping and Lighting District a sure
thing, is it established and in effect?
Mr. Buxton asked if the words "if found to be legal by the City
Attorney" could be inserted.
Community Development Director Miller stated that the City
Engineer has recommended for alternative drainage the facility
designated as "B", in the Staff Report. When that letter was
written it was written in the context of a different drainage
facility being proposed. The City Engineer does not believe that
the drainage facility currently under discussion would be
~ appropriate to be included with such a mechanism.
Chairman Washburn asked if we went with a Negative Declaration on
this and we indicated to the City Engineer on deciding which plan
to take, "A" or "B", he is going to determine which of these
items really apply and should be applicable to the project, isn't
that correct. If we go ahead and allow the Engineer, as
indicated in the Staff Report, to determine Plan "A" or "B" which
will provide the necessary flood proofing protection that is
needed for a Negative Declaration for the Planning Department,
then a lot of these things will be at the determination of the
City Engineer.
Community Development Director Miller responded in the affirma-
tive, stating he is suggesting that the condition that states
that it shall be maintained through a Lighting and Landscaping
District may not be appropriate to one of those alternatives.
Mr. Buxton suggested that the condition say that it could be
maintained, which would leave us an option if it is found to be
legal and acceptable.
Commissioner Mellinger suggested the following verbiage be added
to condition number 49: "maintenance to the satisfaction of the
- City Engineer".
Discussion at the table ensued on condition number 15 and number
49, pertaining to the maintenance of the berm and permanent
facilities; major landowners in this area being lined up to
participate in the Flood Control Assessment District.
Mr. Buxton stated that they would like to have an option of
implementing an alternative financing mechanism, be it a Lighting
and Landscaping Maintenance District, Assessment District,
Improvement District, or a Community Facilities District.
Mr. Buxton commented on condition number 53, pertaining to the
contribution of 8% of the design and construction cost of the
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 5, 1988
Page 6
NEGATIVE DECLARATION 87-21 FOR RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 87-4 - CURTIS/
ELSINORE RANCH CONTINUED
signal, Lakeshore Drive and Machado, and requested consideration
that perhaps this amount should be less than 8%, maybe more in
the neighborhood of 4.4%.
Mr. Buxton commented on condition number 55, pertaining to the
60-foot dedication on all perimeter streets, st. Clair,__
California and Broadway. The problem that we have with this is
that we do not own the land. We provided grant deeds, Riverside
County Document No. 280589, providing a full 60-foot wide
right-of-way access for the existing half width streets within
the Torn Ranch area, and requested that the word "dedication" be
replaced with the word "right-of-way".
Commissioner Mellinger stated that the Subdivision Map Act says
that if there is an off-site dedication and you can't work it out
within 120 days, the City will have to initiate condemnation
procedures and you would have to pay for the property.
Chairman Washburn commented on the applicant's
reduction of the 8%, condition number 53. Asked how
calculated, and if the 8% were deleted and the words
inserted would this cause a problem?
request for
the 8% was
"fair share"
Associate Planner Wilkins stated that the 8% was determined by
the Engineering Staff, and this should probably be addressed to
the Engineering Department.
Commissioner Brinley asked if this was a standard fee charged to
all developers.
Associate Planner Wilkins stated that this fee was being charged
specifically for this area.
.....
Commissioner Brown asked what point in time would this 8% have to
be paid, and when would the cost be estab1ished--now as of
today's date, or when the 1st building permit is pulled or, when
the 52nd building permit is pulled.
Associate Planner Wilkins stated that the Engineering Department
will be the ones to work with the design and go through for the
construction of that.
Commissioner Brown stated that he would like to see some type of
language in direct relationship to the impact of the tract, and
what that cost would be as of today's date, or at the time of
first building permit, or something where it is tied down.
Mr. Buxton stated that perhaps condition number 2 satifies this
requirement, which stated that all project conditions of approval
are to be met prior to Building Division issuance of a Certifi-
cate of Occupancy and release of utilities.
Chairman Washburn stated that he see no problem with adding
language, just wonders if the Engineering Department has already
established policy on how they handle this, and we do not know --
what that pOlicy is.
Discussion at the table ensued on what department collects fees
and when these fees are collected.
Commissioner Mellinger asked if the 8% was earmarked for the
signal at Lakeshore and Machado.
Senior Planner Libiez stated that
Engineering staff was that this 8%
discussion received from the
was their best computation,
~
,.--
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 5, 1988
Page 7
NEGATIVE DECLARATION 87-21 FOR RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 87-4 - CURTIS/
ELSINORE RANCH CONTINUED
and it would be earmarked to solve the signalization problem at
Machado and Lakeshore only.
Commissioner Mellinger asked if the other 92% would come from
future development in the area.
Community Development Director stated that all of the fees are
earmarked for particular signals. The fees go into a special
fund designated for traffic signals and the funding of the other
percentage would come from either other development or the City'S
General Fund, or other funding sources that might be identified.
Considerable discussion at the table ensued on condition number
53, pertaining to the 8% being earmarked for signalization of
Lakeshore and Machado only, and the fee collected not going into
a City-wide Traffic Signalization General Fund: this being a
direct mitigation for that intersection which should include
consideration of a development agreement to implement said
mitigation for the impact as identified on Page 3 of the Addendum
to the Staff Report, referring to the Traffic Study which noted
impaction at the completion of the fifty-two units.
Commissioners Mellinger and Brown suggested that a mechanism be
in place to provide the remaining 92% so that the signal can be
installed when the warrant is reached.
Chairman Washburn indicated that it was addressed on Page 3 of
the Environmental Assessment Form, #13.1., requirement for a
pro-rata contribution toward this project's share of
signalization and intersection improvements for Lakeshore and
Machado: signalization of that intersection, would have to be a
joint effort between the City and County since three corners of
the intersection are under County jurisdiction.
At this time, 8:44 p.m. the Planning Commission recessed.
At this time, 8:55 p.m. the Planning Commission reconvened.
Discussion at the table ensued on signalization of the Machado/
Lakeshore Drive intersection: fees collected for this signaliza-
tion to be earmarked for this intersection only.
Commissioner Brown stated that he would like to see the 8% tied
to a figure which is directly in relationship to the 52 house
impact on this intersection, or an explanation of the 8%. If it
is actually going to be tied to the design and construction of
the signal, the cost and design should be established now.
Chairman Washburn commented on condition number 16, pertaining to
the front yard landscaping not related to slopes shall be the
responsibility of the homeowner, stating that he would be opposed
to this, on previous applications the Commission denied such
-- requests.
Discussion at the table ensued on retaining condition number 16,
if the developer were to change, or should the developer change
his mind, this would be a back-up; enforcement of this condition
under CC & R's: landscaping not being tied to Certificate of
Occupancy due to maintenance problems, but irrigation to be
installed prior to Certificate of Occupancy.
Motion by Commissioner Brown to adopt Negative Declaration 87-21
for Residential Project 87-4, based upon the Findings and the 55
Conditions of Approval (Minor Design Review) listed in the Staff
Report Addendum, amending the following conditions:
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 5, 1988
Page 8
NEGATIVE DECLARATION 87-21 FOR RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 87-4 - CURTIS/
ELSINORE RANCH CONTINUED
Condition No.9:
Condition No. 15:
Condition No. 18:
Condition No. 49:
"Related lot line adjustments and lot
mergers shall comply with the State of
California Subdivision Map Act and to all
the requirements of the Lake Elsinore
Municipal Code (L.E.M.C.), Title 16,
unless modified by the Conditions of_
Approval, and reflected in the plot plan,
Fine Grading Plan, Exhibit No.2.
"All slopes on or off-site created by
grading operations to support development
of this tract shall be planted with
erosion control vegetation as approved by
the Planning Division and the City's
Landscape Architect. All permanent
slopes, three-foot (3') or greater shall
be landscaped with a combination of trees,
shrubs and ground cover and shall have a
permanent irrrigation system installed.
This shall include berms, banks or slopes
created as part of the required interim
flood control facility. The slopes would
have to be maintained on a permanent basis
if the interim facility is to last longer
than one (1) year after the date of
certificate of Occupancy of the 40th home.
Financing for maintenance and permanent
facilities may be implemented through
alternative mechanisms, Assessment
District, Improvement District, Community __
Facilities District, with possible City
participation and cooperation with the
applicant in forming said District."
"Applicant shall construct all infra-
structure and circulation systems
necessary to serve individual lots prior
to the issuance of Certificate of
Occupancy for individual lots, or any
release for individual or model homes.
Sufficient off street parking shall be
provided to serve any model complex
established."
"Developer shall maintain interim flood
control channel and protection facility
until such time as West Area Master Plan
Facilities or permanent facilities
constructed to satisfaction of City
Engineer are in place, or other long term
funding mechanisms as approved by the
City. The interim flood control channel
shall be maintained on a permanent basis
if the interim facility is expected to
last any longer than one (1) year after --
the date of Certificate of Occupancy of
the 40th home."
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Commissioner Mellinger asked for discussion.
Discussion at the table ensued on the City's need to address the
signalization issue; Drainage Study, pertaining to protection of
downstream, off-site, properties; no increased flows on down-
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 5, 1988
Page 9
NEGATIVE DECLARATION 87-21 FOR RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 87-4 = CURTIS/
ELSINORE RANCH CONTINUED
stream properties without an acceptance letter, and the City
Engineer's determination that downstream property owners, to the
~ south, will not be impacted by the diversion and this being a
specific finding of the City Engineer in approving these interim
facilities, and if this finding cannot be made then it should
come back.
There being no further discussion at the table, Chairman Washburn
called for the question.
Approved 5-0
2. Resolution 88-1 - City of Lake Elsinore - Assistant Planner Magee
presented a request to establish an elevation limitation on fence
location within the Lakeshore Overlay District. The Lakeshore
Drive right-of-way southwesterly to the State Park ownership
boundary or elevation 1240' MSL and from Main Street northwester-
ly to Iowa Street, a distance of approximately 3.45 miles.
Chairman Washburn asked if there was any input received from the
public.
Assistant Planner Magee responded in the negative.
Chairman Washburn asked how existing fences would be handled?
Assistant Planner Magee stated that this would only affect new
~ fences.
Commissioner Brown stated that he would like to have the
following verbiage added: "at no time will the fence be lower
than 1251, but at no time will be closer than five feet of the
high water mark, at time of installation".
Motion by Commissioner Brown to recommend adopt Resolution No.
88-1 amending Section One to read:
1. Fences within the Lakeshore Overlay District
may not extend below the 1251 foot contour
elevation above sea level, and at no time
any closer than five horizontal feet from the
high water mark at the time of installation.
Second by Commissioner Mellinger.
Approved 5-0
RESOLUTION NO. 88-1
.....
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF
THE CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA,
ESTABLISHING A STANDARD DISTANCE THAT
FENCES MAY EXTEND TOWARD THE LAKE WITHIN
THE LAKESHORE OVERLAY DISTRICT
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Kelley:
Nothing to report.
Minutes of Planning commission
January 5, 1988
Page 10
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
commissioner Brinley:
Asked Senior Planner Libiez if he had heard anything about the
mountain of dirt accumulating at Townsend and Heald.
Senior Planner Libiez stated that this item is still before the
Building Department, and they have indicated that they will monitor
this, but we will review this again with the Building Official. __
commissioner Brown:
I talked with Assistant Planner Magee and asked that he look into an
issue at the Swap Meet. There are a lot of little covers that go up
out there on a regular basis. One went up just the other day that
has to be at least 1600 square feet, and no structural safety to it
at all.
commissioner Brinley:
Commented on the underpass at Railroad Canyon Road and Central Avenue
stating that these areas are becoming our local stop and park and
creating traffic hazards. Asked if this parking is allowed, and if
we are going to provide a lot for these people to park and carpool
to work?
Community Development Director Miller stated that the Commission's
concerns have been relayed to the Engineering Department and the
Sheriff's Department, and they both have indicated that they will be
reviewing the situation and taking appropriate action, but we will
review it with them again.
commissioner Mellinger:
-
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Brown stated that he would like to request that Council
seriously consider placing stop signs at the on/off ramps of the
freeway at Railroad Canyon Road.
Chairman Washburn:
Chairman Washburn stated that there has been requests from citizens
for a stop sign at Second and Dexter.
There being no further
adjourned at 9:41 p.m.
Chairman Washburn.
Approved 5-0
business the Lake Elsinore Planning Commission
Motion by Commissioner Kelley, second by
proved,
N0}~
-
;z:tfA:mitted'
Linda Grindstaff~
Planning Commission
Secretary
MINUTES
OF
LAKE
ELSINORE
PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
19TH
DAY
OF
JANUARY
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:01 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Senior Planner Libiez.
ROLL CALL:
-- PRESENT: Commissioners:
Brown, Mellinger, Brinley, Kelley and
Washburn
ABSENT:
Commissioners:
None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planner Libiez, Assistant Planners Magee and Last.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brown to approve minutes of January 5, 1988,
with corrections on Page 8 and 9, second by Chairman Washburn with an
additional correction on Page 10, as follows:
--
Page 8, Condition #15: "All slopes on or off site created by
grading operations to support development
of this tract shall be planted with
erosion control vegetation as approved by
the Planning Division and the City'S
Landscape Architect. All permanent
slopes, three-foot (3') or greater shall
be landscaped with a combination of trees,
shrubs and ground cover and shall have a
permanent irrigation system installed.
This shall include berms, banks or slopes
created as part of the required interim
flood control facility. The slopes would
have to be maintained on a permanent basis
if the interim facility is to last longer
than one (1) year after the date of
Certificate of Occupancy of the 40th home.
Financing for maintenance and permanent
facilities may be implemented through
alternative mechanisms, Assessment
District, Improvement District, Community
Facilities District, with possible City
participation and cooperation with the
applicant in forming said District."
Condition #49: "Developer shall maintain interim flood
control channel and protection facility
until such time as West Area Master Plan
Facilities or permanent facilities
constructed to satisfaction of City
Engineer are in place, or other long term
funding mechanisms as approved by the
City. The interim flood control channel
shall be maintained on a permanent basis
if the interim facility is expected to
last any loner than one (1) year after the
date of Certificate of Occupancy of the
40th home."
--
Page 9: Resolution No. 88-1 - Item 1 should read: Fences within
the Lakeshore Overlay District may not extend below the
1251 foot contour elevation above sea level, and at not
time any closer than five horizontal feet from high water
mark at the time of installation.
Page 10: The word "signal" should be changed to "stop sign", under
Chairman Washburn's comments.
Minutes of Planning commission
January 19, 1988
Page 2
MINUTE ACTION CONTINUED
Chairman Washburn asked if the Commission concurred with the
corrections. The Commission concurred with the corrections as
stated. Chairman Washburn called for the question.
Approved 5-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS __
Chairman Washburn asked the Secretary if there were any request to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Washburn
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
It was the consensus of the Commission to consider Public Hearing
#1 and Business Item #1 concurrently.
1. Conditional Use Permit 87-6 and Commercial Project 87-3 - William
S. Buck - Assistant Planner Last presented applicant's request
for continuance, in order to work out access solutions to the
subject site.
Motion by Commissioner Mellinger to
Permit 87-6 and Commercial Project 87-3
noted that this will be the last
Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
continue Conditional Use
to March 1, 1988, with it
continuance, second by
2. Zone Change 87-10 - Camelot Property Counselors, Inc. - Assistant
Planner Last presented proposal to change the zoning from Neigh-
borhood Commercial (C-1) to General Commercial (C-2), on 20
plus/minus acres located at the northeast corner of Mission Trail
and Malaga Road with a portion abutting Casino Drive (Vista Del
Lago).
--
Chairman Washburn opened the public hearing at 7:08 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone Change 87-10.
Mr. Leonard O'Byrne, President of Camelot Property Counselors,
spoke in favor of the proposal.
Mr. Ron Ferrier, 32206 Lakeview Terrace, stated that he was in
favor of the Zone Change.
Chairman Washburn asked if there was anyone else wishing to speak
in favor of Zone Chanqe 87-10. Receiving no response, Chairman
Washburn asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving
no response, Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished to speak on
the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn closed the
public hearing at 7:09 p.m.
Commissioner Kelley and Commissioner Brinley stated that the Zone
Change is compatible with the General Plan and in favor of the
proposal.
Chairman Washburn asked staff if the Commission approves the Zone
Change, and if for some reason during the hearing on the General
Plan we change it, should we not condition the Zone Change to the
approval of the General Plan or would this be a dead issue?
Community Development Director Miller informed Chairman Washburn
that you could not condition Zone Changes or General Plan
Amendments. If you would, in reviewing the General Plan, make a
change later then it would supersede this.
--
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 19, 1988
Page 3
ZONE CHANGE 87-10 = CAMELOT PROPERTY COUNSELORS. INC. CONTINUED
commissioner Mellinger stated that he agrees that the Commission
would then have to do a Zone Change to be consistent with the
General Plan.
-
commissioner Mellinger asked why we would not expand this when we
have these inconsistencies come up, it seems to be General
Commercial further north.
Community Development Director Miller stated that we are in the
process of updating the General Plan, and the purpose of doing
that was also to do the zoning and get the two in conformance.
commissioner Brown stated that he shares the same concerns as
Chairman Washburn, and has nothing additional.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 87-38 and approval of Zone
Change 87-10 based upon the Findings listed in the Staff Report,
second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Commercial Project 87-3
Public Hearing #1.
William S. Buck - Considered with
2.
Industrial Project 86-2 Amendment #1 - O.T. Equities - Senior
Planner Libiez stated that this is a request to amend Design
Review of Industrial Project 86-2 to revise floor plans and
locations for six (6) buildings on separate lots. However, in
review of the submittals there are some necessary changes to that
project plan, and in order to accommodate those and have
sufficient time staff is recommending continuance of this item,
until such time as we can reschedule and readvertise.
-
A brief discussion was held at the table on the number of
continuances this proposal has received.
Motion by Commissioner Mellinger to continue Industrial Project
86-2 Amendment #1, with it noted that this will be the last
continuance, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0 (Chairman Washburn abstaining)
3. Commercial Project 87-13 - Camelot Property Counselors, Inc. _
Assistant Planner Last presented proposal to construct an
approximately 156,893 square foot shopping center in three (3)
phases, on 20 plus/minus acres located at the northeast corner of
Mission Trail and Malaga Road with a portion abutting Casino
Drive (Vista Del Lago).
-
Assistant Planner Last requested that conditions 25 and 69 be
amended as follows:
Condition #25:
"Drainage from the garden center shall not
flow directly into the storm drain system,
this shall be to the satisfaction of the
Chief Building Official and the City
Engineer."
Condition #69:
"Install a catch basin and street
improvements on Malaga Road prior to
completion of the first building at Phase
II."
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 19, 1988
Page 4
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-13 - CAMELOT PROPERTY COUNSELORS. INC.
CONTINUED
Chairman Washburn asked Mr. O'Byrne if there were any items that
he would like to address before discussion at the table.
Mr. O'Byrne stated that the Staff Report, as it stands, is a
matter of professional work and worked out with our
professionals, and we do not have any exceptions to it.
....
Mr. O'Byrne stated
tonight:
that the following people are with him
Mr. Paul Wehmeier, Real Estate Representative for K-Mart,
from Troy Michigan.
Mr. Scott Mommer of Lars Andersen & Associates, the
engineer who does most of K-Mart matters in this area.
Mr. Steve Ruth of Musil, Perkowitz, Ruth, Inc.,
Architectural Firm.
Mr. Poole, Traffic Engineer.
Mr. Tweed, from Pavilion Properties.
Mr. Wehmeier gave a brief summary on the efforts of K-Mart to
better serve the citizens of Southern Riverside County.
Commissioner Kelley commented on the south elevation, stating
that it is rather stark. In visualizing that from Casino Drive,
believes that it would be much better served with some trees, and __
asked for height and distance of the trees from the building.
Discussion at the table ensued on height and distance of trees to
. be planted; visibility of the south elevation, and rendering not
illustrating the trees on the south elevation.
Mr. Steve Ruth, of Musil, Perkowitz, Ruth, Inc., addressed
Commissioner Kelley's concern on the south elevation, stating
there is a grade differential that does not show up on the plan,
it is about 20 feet difference between the adjacent Casino
property and the south side of the K-Mart building. The trees
along the property line will actually be elevated up to provide
quite a bit of a buffer there.
Discussion at the table ensued on the type and height of these
trees when planted along the property line.
Mr. Ruth stated that they would work with staff if there are
certain trees the Commission would prefer to see planted.
Chairman Washburn asked if there was consideration for foot
traffic from the casino/Hotel facility to the site, and stated he
thinks that there is a need for foot traffic crossing, i.e.
steps.
Assistant Planner Last stated that this was not addressed in the
Traffic Study.
Chairman Washburn commented on the site plan, stating that there
is another ingress/egress close to Malaga Road, about 150 feet
away. Asked if we are possibly getting too close to that
intersection for an ingress/egress.
senior Planner Libiez answered in the negative, stating that the
Engineering Department has reviewed this and in combination with
--
Minutes of Planning commission
January 19, 1988
Page 5
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-13 - CAMELOT PROPERTY COUNSELORS. INC.
CONTINUED
the eventual signalization of that corner and the provision of
the medians will help to channel and contain the flows of traffic
~ in that area.
Chairman Washburn stated that when we have two projects side by
side, one completed like the stater Brothers Shopping Center and
a new project going in adjacent to it, was there discussion on
the possibility an access--reciprocal easement between these two
projects.
Mr. Scott Mommer stated that he believed the
between the two centers to be an excellent
provide for this. On our grading plan
proposed parking lot between pad "c" and "0"
access through there.
Chairman Washburn asked how staff felt about this idea?
reciprocal easement
idea and we can
the grades of that
will permit that
Community Development Director Miller stated that this certainly
was a good idea as long as the grades would allow for it, that
would be the critical factor.
-
Chairman Washburn asked if the landscaping along Mission Trail
would be bermed, mounded type or basically flat with vegetation.
Assistant Planner Last stated that there is a 2:1 slope right at
that point, so there may be a 4 to 5 foot slope before you get to
the parking lot, which would be landscaped with erosion control
material, trees and shrubs.
Chairman Washburn stated that one point that could be included on
the landscaping plan is where you have the rafters, 24" beam
rafters on the sides of the buildings, two trees are shown along
with lower vegetation, is it possible to have some climbing vines
included, which would help enhance the building.
Chairman Washburn stated
of the roof and the roof
would be screened well
of visibility.
Assistant Planner Last stated that with the slopes involved at
that point, especially from Casino, there is approximately a 20
foot grade differential so staff has recommended, at least when
you are going to be adjacent to the site, all roof mounted
equipment will be located six inches (6") below the parapet and
will be painted of a similar color as the roof so that it will
blend in.
that he has a concern on the visibility
mounted equipment itself, asking if it
enough so that you would not have a lot
Commissioner Kelley asked Chairman Washburn if he noticed from
Casino looking onto the T & S Development the roof top equipment
- was visible, but it did blend in with the roof.
Chairman Washburn referred to Page 10 of the Traffic Study
requesting clarification on the last paragraph.
Senior Planner Libiez stated that what they are pointing out is
that there is extreme difficulty at that area, getting directly
in a straight shot to Casino, and it may necessitate joint
agreements with adjoining property owners where there is better
transitional grades to enter with a joint driveway system, they
have been exploring this and will continue to explore this with
property owners in the area. They may have to transition as well
to the Casino site itself and that is still a possibility with
mutual driveway agreements, so they could go two different
directions out of there rather than directly to Casino.
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 19, 1988
Page 6
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-13 - CAMELOT PROPERTY COUNSELORS. INC.
CONTINUED
Chairman Washburn referred to a set of plan which made reference
to the retaining wall being the same as the footings, and asked
if this was a common practice.
Community Development Director Miller answered
tive.
in the affirma-
....
Commissioner Mellinger commented on condition number 35, pertain-
ing to brick pavers or decorative paving, and stated that he
wants to make sure that Bomanite is not utilized.
commissioner Mellinger commented on condition number 40, pertain-
ing to the roof mounted equipment, stating that his concern is
the visibility from the freeway and asked if this was taken into
consideration. If not, does not thinks it is a big problem; we
could have line of sight studies from the freeway, or estimate
it, or even after the roof equipment is installed maybe have
individual parapets blended in. If something of this matter were
done, this can be implied in condition number 40, or maybe we
should just indicate in condition number 40, that some sort of
screening measures to the satisfaction of the Community
Development Director shall be taken into account to freeway
visibility.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on condition number 68, pertain-
ing to the requirement of a median, and asked if this is to be
landscaped or what type of median we are looking at?
Senior Planner Libiez stated that it will be a raised median,
combination of concrete and landscape, and the final design will ....
be subject to the approval of the City Engineer.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on condition number
ing to the $50,000 deposit and the statement "if
another source, deposit will be refunded", and asked
a sunset on this.
75, pertain-
funded from
if there was
Community Development Director Miller stated that the intent of
this condition is, if at the time of construction we were able to
obtain other funding; for instance we have been trying to obtain
funding from the either the State or Federal Funds for assistance
with that bridge. If we were able to obtain funding from that
source then other contributions would be substantially reduced,
so we would be looking in terms of at the time of construction of
the bridge.
Commissioner Mellinger recommended that the words "at time of
construction" be added to condition number 75.
Chairman Washburn asked what the timing was on this, after the
Certificate of Occupancy is given, or prior to Phase II, what
will this be tied to?
Community Development Director responded that typically we would
look at the time of issuance of building permits. ....
Commissioner Mellinger stated that his concern in the long run,
looking at the Traffic Report, Page 3, the utilization of the
Town Center 5% projection to the year 1989 was used, and when I
see something like this I am a little concerned that this Traffic
Study will be utilized for future use. The only thing that I
have concern with would probably be the percentages of drop in
trips and diverted trips. I think that those are valid concepts.
However, I think in this particular instance looking on Table 3,
58% drop in trips, I think that we should probably take into
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 19, 1988
Page 7
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-13 - CAMELOT PROPERTY COUNSELORS. INC.
CONTINUED
account the fact that K-Mart will probably attract far more than
6% new trips.
-
Mr. Ruth commented on condition
screening, stating that the K-Mart
conditioning units allover the
start throwing additional screens up
any more beautiful than painting the
number 40, pertaining to the
building has a series of air
roof, and I think that if we
there it is not going be be
unit out itself.
commissioner Mellinger stated that perhaps this could be worked
out with staff. Thinks that the concept would be one additional
screen all the way across, presumes that there will be a parapet
between there and the freeway and maybe one set back a ways,
which will then soften it and everything else will blend in with
the roof.
A brief discussion at the table ensued on screening of roof
mounted equipment; reserve the right, maybe agree as phases go
on, that if it does look like a problem after it is in we can
address it at that point.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on the reciprocal easement with
Stater Brothers stating that he believed that an agreement would
have to be. worked out with them, so would suggest that if they
can not get it that we do not force the issue.
Commissioner Brown stated that he had a procedural question for
-- Chairman Washburn on condition number 38, this is in reference to
bringing back the Final Landscaping Plan for approval by the
City's Landscape Architect and Community Development Director.
There has been a lot of discussion at this table in the past
about bringing it before the Planning Commission, yet that does
not seem to be what Council wants to see, but it is okay for it
to go back to the Community Development Director. My problem
with it having to go clear back to the applicant and then going
back through us again, I think if we maintain what we had before
where it would come back to the Planning Commission for review of
the landscape design. We are approving the project in concept,
we want it to proceed to Council, but we do want the final say
so. I need to know what we need to do with this, because can't
understand how we can send it to Council with the Community
Development Director looking at it, but we can't look at it.
Chairman Washburn suggested changing the words "or his designee"
to "Planning Commission".
--
Community Development Director Miller stated that in discussing
this with Planning Commission and City Council at Joint Study
Sessions last Fall, we suggested that perhaps by providing
additional information the Planning Commission and City Council
could address their concerns. Then, essentially, the working
drawings of the landscaping plan would have staking and
irrigation details and would be subject to technical review, just
as we do with grading plans and building plans. We have tried to
present a plan that is much more detailed, specifying actual
plant materials and their number and location. We can change
this format again if that is the direction of the Commission. As
Commissioner Brown has indicated perhaps we ought to, if Planning
Commission still feels that insufficient information is being
provided, look at that again, so that we can do that as a
consistent policy to satisfy your concerns.
Commissioner Brown stated that
aesthetics as opposed to technical
want to see additional items on
not want to send the whole project
the concerns are more with
questions on landscaping. I
the landscaping plan, but I do
back for additional trees.
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 19, 1988
Page 8
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-13 - CAMELOT PROPERTY COUNSELORS. INC.
CONTINUED
Commissioner Brown referred to the site plan and requested that
the parking areas in front of Building "A" be numbered, from left
to right, along the top of those parking bands, bands 1 through 9
and along the bottom the same bands give them the numbers 10
through 17. What I have become really disenchanted with is the
small parking planter caps, for lack of a better word for them. __
Usually, they look good for about the first three weeks and then
everyone has beat them down, the plants dead and the sprinklers
are broken off and sometimes the specimen trees in them live, but
rarely are they of any adequate size to produce any shade or
aesthetic value. What I would like to suggest is possibly a
concepts where on the rows where the center median planters are
closest to the end that those caps be eliminated, and that square
footage be dedicated to the front of the building for additional
landscaping of specimen trees outside the canopy line. Rough
calculations, I think that we could get approximately 1,900
square feet. of additional landscaping outside the canopy area in
front of the store and that could be in mounded specimen trees,
that type of planting, and that would be eliminating planters 2,
4, 6, 8, 12, 14 and 16. Also, you have the excess of three
parking spaces in Phase I, eliminate those three parking spaces,
dedicate those areas to landscaping and the combined total of the
additional seven spaces of parking for combined totals of Phases
I and II be dedicated to plantings in front of Building "G" and
"F".
Chairman Washburn asked Commissioner
cation and requested that he use
illustrate what he was talking about.
Commissioner Brown referred to the rendering posted to explain
his recommendation to eliminate the caps and provide additional
landscaping.
Brown for further clarifi-
the rendering posted to
--
A lengthy discussion at the table ensued on the elimination of
the parking planter caps to provide for additional landscaping,
and traffic circulation concerns.
Chairman Washburn stated that he believes the idea has merit.
Community Development Director Miller stated that a general pur-
pose for having the end cap planters is to control access points
along the drive aisles, so that people are not entering at
irregular points. This is a primary function of the end caps,
and landscaping those end caps to soften the appearance. Staff
might suggest, if we are understanding your concern correctly,
that rather than eliminate the end caps add additional planting
areas in the areas referred to.
Commissioner Brown stated that he was not asking the applicant to
give up--he is very close on his square footage to parking space
ratio. I do not want him to give up building area. I am just
saying to transfer the square footage in those caps. Now you can
put a curb along that edge and prevent ingress/egress and with
traffic stops you can prevent ingress/egress. If you want to
maintain the curb radius around the end that is fine, but take
the footage that is dedicated within those caps for planting and
put it where the plants are going to be used and seen.
Mr. Ruth stated that K-Mart has a very active program for
maintenance of their centers.
--
Commissioner Brown stated that it could be in two-foot elevated
planters.
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 19, 1988
Page 9
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-13 - CAMELOT PROPERTY COUNSELORS. INC.
CONTINUED
commissioner Brinley asked about lighting, stating that the
rendering does not show the parking lot lighting, or the number
-- of light fixtures to be provided.
Assistant Planner stated that a parking lot lighting plan was
submitted with the first submittal, but the revisions did not
include that and we did not include that part in the plans that
were submitted to the Commission.
Discussion at the table ensued on the type of lighting standards
proposed, including the number and height of fixtures proposed.
Commissioner Brinley asked for the location of the employee
parking lot and asked if this area will be well lit.
Discussion at the table ensued on the location of the employee
parking lot, and if there will be wall units to the building
itself.
Chairman Washburn questioned Finding number 4, pertaining to
General-Manufacturing and asked staff if this should be corrected
to state General Commercial.
Community Development Director Miller responded in the affirma-
tive.
--
Chairman Washburn questioned condition number 21, pertaining to
interim erosion control measures to be taken 30 days after rough
grading, why we are waiting 30 days to put measures in place?
Assistant Planner Last responded that
Uniform Building Code that they have
installed 30 days after rough grading.
Chairman Washburn commented on the, ANALYSIS, second paragraph of
the Staff Report, pertaining to the smooth face concrete block and
the recommendation that splitface concrete block be utilized on
the front elevation of K-Mart to provide textured and enhanced
entrance. Asked if they are still requesting to go with the
smooth face on the sides, and is the smoothface colored?
this is a standard in the
erosion control measures
Assistant Planner Last responded that this would be smooth face
with the same color as the entire building.
Chairman Washburn stated that on the side facing the Dunes,
thinks that should probably be the same type of block as in the
front, which would be the splitface block, not to concerned with
the rear.
--
Commissioner Brinley commented on signalization, asking when
K-Mart opens if the signal will be working.
Community Development Director Miller stated that the traffic
signal is required to be operational prior to Albertson's opening
which is scheduled for less than two weeks away.
Chairman Washburn commented on Phase I, stating that we will be
putting up the K-Mart, paving, landscaping and so on, and asked
if the pads will be grass seeded or sod.
Senior Planner Libiez stated that the pads would hydroseeded.
Chairman Washburn asked if full grading would be done for Phase
I, Phase II and Phase III, or grading Phase I first and leaving
the buildings in place that are on the Malaga side.
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 19, 1988
Page 10
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-13 - CAMELOT PROPERTY COUNSELORS. INC.
CONTINUED
Senior Planner Libiez stated that he believes the perspective,
right now, is to do the rough grading for both Phase I and Phase
II, and the final grading would be done for II as they get ready
to develop.
commissioner Brinley asked
and Phase II.
for
the time element between Phase I
-
Mr. O'Byrne stated that they intend to follow as closely as they
can to Phase I. Perhaps you are aware that K-Mart is moving with
dispatch in this.
Mr. Ron Ferrier stated that he is for the project, but his main
concern is Casino Drive and traffic control. Also, heard tonight
the possibility of a new entrance at Phase III, joining up with
Casino.
Mr. Ferrier also stated
route and it is a very
traffic coming around
Malaga.
that Lakeview Terrace is mainly a bus
bad intersection, concerned with the
the hard corner at Lakeview Terrace and
Discussion at the table ensued on the concerns raised by Mr.
Ferrier; possible installation of a stop sign; location of the
LETS bus stop, and applicant to work with staff and the City
Engineer on traffic concerns there to see if a stop sign could be
installed.
There being no further discussion at the table, Chairman Washburn
called for a motion. _
Motion by Commissioner Mellinger to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 87-38 based on the Findings,
and amending Finding number 4, approval of Commercial Project
87-13 based on the 76 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff
Report with the following amendments:
Finding No.4:
Condition #25:
Condition #32:
Condition #35:
"Conditions and safeguards pursuant to
Section 17.82.070, including guarantees
and evidence of compliance with conditions
have been incorporated into the approval
of the property in accordance with the
Objectives of Chapter 17.82.060 and the
General Commercial Zoning District."
"Drainage from the garden center shall not
flow directly into the storm drain system,
this shall be to the satisfaction of the
Chief Building Official and the City
Engineer."
The parking stalls provided to the rear of
K-Mart shall contain at least 50% standard
size parking stalls. These stalls should
be designated for employee parking, and -
commitment for security lighting in the
employee parking lot shall be provided to
the satisfaction of the Community Develop-
ment Director."
"Brick pavers or decorative paving other
than Bomanite shall be incorporated at the
drive aisle for pedestrian crossing at the
entrance of the K-Mart to the satisfaction
of the Community Development Director."
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 19, 1988
Page 11
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-13 - CAMELOT PROPERTY COUNSELORS. INC.
CONTINUED
Condition #38.h.4: "On the south elevation replace the slower
growing trees, such as Crepe Myrtle, with
faster growing trees such as Canary Island
Pine."
-
Condition #38.j:
Condition #39:
Condition #40:
Condition #69:
-
Condition #75:
Condition #77:
Condition #78:
"Climbing vines or small planters with
small accent trees to be provided on the
south elevation underneath the trellis."
"Splitface block shall be used at the
front elevation of K-Mart and as the
pillar element of the garden center, also
the south elevation as depicted on the
exhibit."
"All roof mounted equipment shall be at
least six-inches (6") lower than the
parapet wall or top of equipment well and
shall be painted to match the buildings.
Freeway visibility of roof top equipment
will be addressed to the satisfaction of
the Community Development Director.
Evidence of compliance shall be included
in building plans."
"Install a
improvements
completion of
II."
catch basin and street
on Malaga Road prior to
the first building at Phase
"Contribute $50,000 deposit toward
widening of San Jacinto River Bridge at
Lakeshore Drive, if bridge is funded from
another source at time of building permit
issuance, deposit will be refunded."
"There shall be some sort of provision for
pedestrian access from the Casino/Hotel to
the project site.
"If reciprocal access can be obtained from
the Stater Brother Shopping Center then
that shall be provided, but if not it can
be waived by the Community Development
Director."
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
-- At this time, 8:15 p.m., the Planning Commission recessed.
At this time, 8:26 p.m., the Planning Commission reconvened.
4. Commercial Project 87-6 REVISED Del Taco, Inc. - Assistant
Planner Magee presented proposal to construct a 1,872 square foot
fast food restaurant with .a drive-thru window, located on the
east side of Lakeshore Drive approximately 245 feet north of
Riverside Drive.
Chairman Washburn asked if the applicant was present and if there
were any concerns with the Conditions of Approval.
Minutes of Planning commission
January 19, 1988
Page 12
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-6 REVISED = DEL TACO. INC. CONTINUED
Mr. Stan Westfall, Vice President of Design and Construction for
Del Taco, stated that they find the conditions agreeable and have
no objections to them and willing to abide by them.
Commissioner Brown stated that he did the site plan posted on the
board in accordance with what I thought we came up the last time
this came to the table. I went back and read the notes again and
the minutes of that meeting and what I put on the wall I think
reflects that idea. The new site plan just does not make it.
Other than that I do like the new renderings of the building.
Commissioner Brown stated that he did not like to cobalt blue the
other muted colors are great, and asked if the cobalt blue was
not the same color as Del Taco's logo.
Chairman Washburn asked Commissioner Brown if he agreed with the
maritime look.
....
Commissioner Brown answered in the affirmative.
A lengthy discussion at the table ensued on the color of the
awning material; site plan prepared by Commission Brown compared
to the site plan prepared by the applicant and this plan not
reflecting the changes that were requested.
Chairman Washburn asked if the applicant was at the parking space
limit or if there were additional spaces.
Assistant Planner Magee responded that the applicant currently is
at the limit, but could adjust the floor plan to limit the amount
of parking. ....
Discussion at the table ensued on the site plan revised by
Commissioner Brown and the one prepared by the applicant
pertaining to number of parking spaces, reducing landscape areas
to ten-feet, reducing the square footage of the building or
reducing the seating capacity.
Chairman Washburn stated that on the trellis area he would like
to see some climbing vines there to provide an arbor effect.
Chairman Washburn stated that he concurs with Commissioner
Brown's idea. Would prefer not to have parking in the front. It
does not bother me to reduce a parking space or two to get what
we need so that we do not have the parking in the front, or
cutting the seating area or clipping that corner.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she concurs with Commissioner
Brown, does not like the parking in front. Would like to see
something else and referenced the Jack in the Box restaurant as
an example.
commissioner Kelley stated that he to likes Commissioner Brown's
idea and asked if this was feasible and if it could be worked
out.
....
Commissioner Brown asked Mr. Westfall if you were to move that
building three-feet toward the main entrance, bottom of the site
plan, and you were able to put a pop-out on for the delivery of
the food to the drive-thru as opposed to having the full length
of the building, would that bring the radius of that corner in,
or will this interfere with the circulation plan.
Mr. Westfall stated that there is room on the site to do this,
however, there are two parking spaces on that side that would
have to be watched for clearance.
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 19, 1988
Page 13
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-6 REVISED = DEL TACO. INC. CONTINUED
commissioner Brown asked Mr. Westfall how much additional space
he would need to create that radius he was concerned about.
-- Mr. Westfall utilized the site plan prepared by Commissioner
Brown to illustrate the radius problem he has.
Discussion at the table ensued on moving the building; landscap-
ing in the rear; how much seating would be lost if the floor plan
were reduced; minimum seating for Del Taco; number of layouts
applicant and staff has worked on.
.....
Chairman Washburn moved that we try to adopt Commissioner Brown's
plan with the inclusion of extra landscaping of the lattice, and
if the plan can not be worked out with staff that it be brought
back to the Commission, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Commissioner Mellinger asked for discussion.
Discussion at the table ensued on the direction for staff and
their attempt to work out a solution; not to have parking in the
front and if necessary reduce the building.
Mr. Westfall asked if the motion passes and we bring it back and
for some reason staff and I are not able to work it out, it would
come back before the Commission. If we are able to work it out
to satisfact~on of staff and Del Taco what would then be the
disposition of the project, would it come back before the
Planning Commission or go on to city Council?
Commissioner Brown stated that he has no problem if there are no
legal issues, if every effort is made and it can be proven to
staff that it can not work, has no problem with the proposal
going straight on to council.
Commissioner Mellinger asked if this could not be concluded at
this point.
Assistant Planner Magee stated that with the current building
size and the square footage dedicated to customer service area, I
do not believe that we can readjust as Commissioner Brown has
illustrated on the board. However, if it is the Commission's
desire to gain that look, I believe that it may necessitate a
reduction in the square footage at least the customer service
area and maybe the entire building.
Commissioner Brown stated that if Del Taco does not wish to
reduce the building, if that is what it comes to, don't they go
to City Council with an appeal.
Chairman Washburn stated that Commissioner Brown's comment
earlier to go straight to City Council if it is not practical to
do the changes. My concern would be if they look at the parking,
-- landscaping and the Code and do not want to reduce the size of
the building, it is not feasible, therefore it goes to Council.
I would like to see them try and make it work with your concept,
and would incorporate this in my motion.
commissioner Mellinger asked if Chairman Washburn was recommend-
ing not approval, but continuance.
Chairman Washburn stated that actually this is a conditional
approval.
Commissioner Mellinger asked
Council.
what condition sends it on to
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 19, 1988
Page 14
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-6 REVISED = DEL TACO. INC. CONTINUED
Chairman Washburn responded that the condition that would send it
on to Council would be the redesign of the building with no
parking in front.
Chairman Washburn stated that it is either this or bring it back
before the Commission.
Commissioners Brinley and Brown stated that they would like to
have the project come back before the Commission.
Chairman Washburn rescinded his motion and Commissioner Brinley
rescinded her second.
....
Motion by Chairman Washburn
be continued to the meeting
redesign of the project coming
by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
that Commercial Project 87-6 Revised
of February 16, 1988, with the
back before the Commission, second
5. Sign Program Amendment - Industrial Project 86-3 - Art Nelson _
Assistant Planner Last presented a request to amend a previously
approved sign program for the Chaney Street Center, located on
the southwest corner of Minthorn Street and Chaney Street.
There being no discussion at the table, Chairman Washburn called
for a motion.
Motion by Commissioner Mellinger to
Program for Industrial Project 86-3
Condition of Approval listed in
Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
approve Amendment to the Sign
based on the Findings and the
the Staff Report, second by
....
6. Finding of General Plan Conformance for:
Street Abandonment 87-4 Brookstone Development - Assistant
Planner Magee presented request for abandonment of a 60-foot wide
segment of Allen Street north of Dexter Avenue.
Motion by Commissioner Mellinger to recommend to City Council
approval of Street Abandonment 87-4 based upon the Findings and 2
Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report, second by
Commissioner Brown.
Approved 5-0
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Community Development Director Miller stated that he had nothing to
report.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Brown:
....
Riverside County and several other Counties are now requiring
building elevations, site plans, and landscaping plans for Zone
Changes. I think that having a site plan and a project concept plan
is great. It gives you an opportunity to kind of put things together
on a larger perspective, rather than lot by lot or acreage by
acreage. If it is legal, I would like to see at least a project
concept come through for Zone Changes and an inventory of how we are
expanding or creating new areas of commercial, an overall picture
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 19, 1988
Page 15
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
with each Zone Change as opposed to just block by block, so that we
know cumulative affect.
~
~
Commissioner Mellinqer:
Commented on Commissioner Brown's request for project concept plans
on Zone Changes, stating that it may be legal to request it and even
approve the site plan. But once the Zone Change is done, I do not
see what prevents the developer from taking a site plan out of their
drawer and getting it approved, putting it back in the drawer and
coming back with" whatever they want. I think that the environmental
requirement is just for worse case basis, unless you had something
tying it, some sort of planned unit approval overlay or something
that is required.
At the last meeting we discussed certain infrastructure needs and the
need for the City to start looking at existing development in
conjunction with new development to insure that when new development
comes in we have adequate infrastructure improvements, so that there
is no lapse. Thinks that the General Plan will address the Goals and
Objectives to insure that. I think that we really need to take a
serious look at that for new development.
To be more specific, I had raised concerns about the West End Fire
Station, and the response was that we do perhaps have the funds to
construct it, but have difficulty in manning it. I would suggest
that we look into a Mello Roos Facility District for that because
that does allow for construction and it does allow for manning of
police and fire services. Believes that the City should get together
with developers in that area, and it should be advertised and wide
spread, since the West End there would be a certain benefit for
anyone from Riverside on north and west. I think that it is time
that we start looking into this. If it is a large enough area the
cost can be estimated well enough, and I do not believe that it would
be that big of an cost factor. If need be maybe we should have
another session with City Council to look at this.
Community Development Director Miller stated that staff is actively
exploring the possibilities of various methods of financing. Some of
our conversations have indicated that a Mello Roos would not be the
appropriate vehicle to provide on-going funding of operations.
Community Development Director Miller stated the
for funding of paYment of salaries for services
through a Community Service District rather than
Facilities District.
State has provided
of fire stations
through a Community
~
Commissioner Mellinger stated that if we looked at a Mello Roos or a
District that gave a fairly good estimate of what the individual
costs would be, thinks that there would be a little different
approach, and not oppossed by the community.
Community Development Director Miller stated that he believes that we
did provide some information along with the measure that went out,
and we are continuing to explore various possibilities. In fact,
last Friday we met with several developers who in total are looking
at developing significant acreage in the west end and did discuss
various types of assessment districts to meet some of the
infrastructure and service demands in that area.
Chairman Washburn stated that he believes that we are talking about
two different things, and Mello Roos can be used to finance some the
pUblic needs, such as the fire station.
Chairman Washburn asked if any staff members attended any of the
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 19, 1988
Page 16
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
Mello Roos Financing Seminars.
Community Development Director Miller stated that a member of the
Engineering Department attended a conference last Friday. We have a
staff member from the Planning Department attending a conference this
month that will be looking at impact fees. __
commissioner Kellev:
Thanked staff for their diligent efforts.
Commissioner Brinley:
Nothing to report.
Chairman Washburn:
Chairman Washburn stated that he appreciates staff's input and the
Commissioners involvement in sorting out some of the concerns that
they have on these projects.
There being no further business, the
Commission adjourned at 9:16 p.m. Motion by
second by Commissioner Mellinger.
Approved 5-0
Lake Elsinore
Commissioner
Planning
Brinley,
--
~;~~~~
Chai~n
;p:Ul~ted'
L~nda Grindstaff ~
Planning Commission
Secretary
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
2ND
DAY
OF
FEBRUARY
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Brown.
ROLL CALL:
~ PRESENT: Commissioners:
Brown, Mellinger, Brinley, Kelley and
Washburn
ABSENT:
commissioners:
None
Also present were community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planners Bolland and Libiez, and Associate Planner Wilkins.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brown to approve minutes of January 19, 1988,
as submitted, second by Commissioner Mellinger.
Chairman Washburn asked for discussion, stating that on Page 11,
Condition Number 77, should be amended to read:
Condition No. 77: "There shall be some sort of provision for
pedestrian access from the Casino/Hotel to
the project site."
commissioner Brown amended his motion to approve minutes of January
19, 1988, with the above correction, second by Commissioner Mellinger.
Approved 5-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
--
Chairman Washburn asked the Secretary if there were any request to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Washburn
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Specific Plan 87-1 - Brian Weiss c/o Jordan Architects - Senior
Planner Bolland presented request for approval of a Specific Plan
for a professional office development. Approximately eight (8)
acres located on the north side of Lakeshore Drive between Center
Street and Avenue 7 (approximately 600 feet east of the inter-
section of Lakeshore Drive and Avenue 6).
Chairman Washburn opened the public hearing at 7:12 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Specific Plan 87-1.
Mr. Brian Weiss stated for the record, he has
property owners, adjacent to the area, who are in
proposal.
a list of 47
favor of the
Mr. Weiss stated that with him tonight is Mr. Bruce Jordan,
-- architect for the project, and there are two issues we would like
to discuss.
Mr. Jordan questioned the conditions pertaining to the cul-de-sac
proposal, stating that they have had fairly lengthy discussions
with Riverside County Fire Department regarding the hammerhead
turnaround and they have assured us that the proposal, as we had
originally defined in the text, was an adequate safeguard for the
public safety at that point.
Mr. Jordan stated that he has prepared an illustration to show the
impacts on the project with resorting to the modified cul-de-sac,
and submitted said illustration to the Commission for their
review.
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 2
SPECIFIC PLAN 87-1 = BRIAN WEISS C/O JORDAN ARCHITECTS
Mr. Jordan questioned the condition pertaining to the landscape
buffer, stating we are of the contention that 15 gallon trees at
12 foot on center is inadequate area there to fully develop a
landscape screen along that rear setback. We have the landscape
architect, Mr. John Swandel, here tonight to deal with this.
Chairman Washburn asked if there was anyone else wishing to speak__
in favor of Specific Plan 87-1. Receiving no response, Chairman
Washburn asked if there was anyone wishing to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response Chairman Washburn asked if there was anyone
wishing to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman
Washburn closed the public hearing at 7:15 p.m.
Commissioner Brown commented on the rear landscape buffer asking
if 75% of the trees would be 15 gallon and 25% would be 24" box,
and if we see any advantage of clumping those trees, knowing the
configuration of the site, or it is felt best to do them on 12
foot centers.
Senior Planner Bolland responded that he believes the intent of
that standard was to require a minimum standard and then at such
time as the actual architectural design is submitted, as part of
the commercial project, staff would review that project and its
landscaping against the standards in the Specific Plan and require
at least 12 foot on center trees. In terms of massing or clumping
that would probably best be dealt with at the time architecture of
the building is known.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on the landscape buffer asking
what the problem was with 8 foot on center, and how 8 foot on
center would be less of a screen?
....
Mr. Swandel, landscape architect for the project, stated that for
optimum growth rate of trees that 8 foot on center is too close,
you restrict the growth rate of the trees.
Discussion at the table ensued on the landscape buffer and how
this growth rate is restricted; type of trees to be utilized; what
the problem would be with only 25% being 24" box type trees.
Commissioner Mellinger suggested that the 24" box trees be limited
to the corners of the buildings.
commissioner Mellinger asked staff if anything has been received
from the Fire Department in regards to the cul-de-sac.
Senior Planner Bolland stated that the Specific Plan document was
circulated to the Fire Department for their review. Their
comments were very general and did not speak to this particular
issue. However, the City Engineering Department has submitted a
memorandum, included in your packets, and several points are
given, that I would like to read into the record, why a cul-de-sac
is superior over a hammerhead:
1) Dawes Street shall dead-end with an off-set cul-de-sac
and not a hammerhead for the following reasons: __
a) Amount of land for off-set cul-de-sac and
hammerhead are relatively the same.
b) Street sweeping for off-set cul-de-sac is
much more efficient.
c) With a hammerhead, the street may be used
as a parking lot or vehicle storage.
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 3
SPECIFIC PLAN 87-1 = BRIAN WEISS C/O JORDAN ARCHITECTS
d) Off-set cul-de-sac makes a driver more aware
of street ending rather than abrupt end
with a hammerhead.
--
e) Cul-de-sac can be used as small detention
basin to assist site drainage with drainage
outlets under the sidewalk.
f) Emergency access can still be achieved by
constructing 4" curb face at emergency
driveway, or as noted in the Staff Report
the need for or possibly including in an
emergency break away gate, similar to the
one at the end of the hammerhead at the
edge of the cul-de-sac.
commissioner Mellinger stated that he concurs with the street
sweeping and the vehicle storage; this is typically a problem when
there is a hammerhead.
commissioner Brinley asked for the
closures, stating that she would
enclosures will be located.
location of the trash en-
like to see where these
Mr. Jordan stated that this is a Specific Plan and we do not have
a specific site plan for approval. This is an illustrative site
plan of what could be approved under the guidance of the Specific
Plan.
--
commissioner Brinley commented on the streets in the back, refer-
ence to no parking, and asked if these should not be posted.
Community Development Director Miller stated that this would be a
condition of the specific site approval; posting or painting of
the curbs.
commissioner Brinley stated that she preferred the cul-de-sac for
the street sweeping and emergency vehicles.
commissioner Kelley stated that he would like to stress the
importance of the rear elevation screening, and stated that he
agrees with commissioner Mellinger's comment on the 24" box trees
in select locations.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he thinks that the project has
come a long way, staff has done a good job on it. The increased
landscaping it is not quite what we asked for, but it is a happy
medium. The infrastructure that is going to be implemented will
be a tremendous asset.
Chairman Washburn stated that he concurs with the City Engineer in
reference to the turnaround, thinks that a cul-de-sac is more
-- advantageous, better than a hammerhead.
Chairman Washburn commented on the phasing portion with the infra-
structure, my one concern, and I brought this up with David
Bolland today, would be the engineer has requested that the infra-
structure on Phase V be completed at the same time as Phase IV.
My concern would be if we have the improvements go on Phase V and
if they decided not to do any project on Phase V it would just
sort of remain fallow for a period of time, at which time it may
or may not have a project on it.
Chairman Washburn asked the Commission if we would want to see, as
we did at Dexter and Highway 74, some landscaping on-site until
such time as a project was to go in on that pad.
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 4
SPECIFIC PLAN 87-1 = BRIAN WEISS C/O JORDAN ARCHITECTS
Discussion at the table ensued on Chairman Washburn's request for
landscaping; providing planters, hydroseed and maintenance of the
pad.
Chairman Washburn asked if the applicant would like to address the
Commission on any of the items.
Mr. Jordan stated that the only issue that they would like to
rebut is the issue on the cul-de-sac. There are only a few houses
on that street, and as a person would be pulling down to enter
their residence they would be pulling into their driveways, and
presumably be backing out of their driveways to go back out and
enter onto Lakeshore Drive. By implementation of a dead-end
street there the turnaround situation can be resolved very easily.
Again, the Fire Department has assured us that this is an
acceptable solution to them.
-
Discussion at the table ensued on the cul-de-sac issue pertaining
to street sweeping; problem of a hammerhead street being used for
a parking lot and vehicle storage.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that if
letter from the County Fire Department
would be better than a cul-de-sac
cul-de-sac is better then would prefer
the applicant could get a
stating that a hammerhead
then he would concur. If a
to have the cul-de-sac.
Commissioner Brinley commented on the safety factor, stating that
with a cul-de-sac people are more aware to slow down when they see
the end of the street than they are with a hammerhead.
Discussion at the table ensued on the the additional traffic
generated on this street and the cul-de-sac being a safety factor;
whether or not the street was posted; full width or half width
street improvements.
-
Senior Planner Bolland stated that he would like to bring to the
Commission's attention Exhibit "K" and Exhibit "0", in the
Specific Plan, comparing it to the illustration prepared and
passed out by Mr. Jordan this evening, concerning the difference
between the hammerhead and the cul-de-sac.
Mr. Jordan stated that Exhibit "0" is a generalized document where
the setack, distance between buildings and landscaping treatment
between buildings is dealt with in the text of the plan. This is
a generalized document to show that we are intending that the ends
of the streets, such as Avenue 1, Pepper, Avenue 6, Irwin and so
on are view sheds.
Commissioner Mellinger asked if this is a view shed and you put a
building in front how does that protect the view shed?
Mr. Jordan stated that what he was saying is that Exhibit "0" is
not the appropriatevJ1Qcument to review this issue. The text of
the Specific Plan q~als with the more concrete issues of distance
between buildings and setbacks.
Commissioner Mellinq~r suggested that Mr. Jordan take a look at
the Government Code {t,at says Specific Plans will include text,
diagrams and etc. that layout the actual zoning requirements for
this project, and if they are inconsistent maybe it should come
back.
-
Mr. Jordan stated tpat they were not saying that they were
inconsistent. What we are saying is the specifics of it are much
more definitive in the text than they are on this document.
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 5
SPECIFIC PLAN 87-1 = BRIAN WEISS C/O JORDAN ARCHITECTS
commissioner Mellinger asked why they would put a diagram in that
would not reflect the text.
-- Mr. Jordan stated that it does.
Discussion at the table ensued on the Specific Plan text and the
diagrams not being consistent with the text.
Motion by
adoption
Plan 87-1
listed in
commissioner Mellinger to recommend to City
of Negative Declaration 87-15 and approval of
based on the Findings and the 2 Conditions of
the Staff Report with the following amendment:
Council
Specific
Approval
Condition No. 2.d. "Part l3(b) page 6 - change paragraph to
read as follows:
-
"Rear buffer landscaping: continuous visual
landscape screen a minimum of ten (10) feet
in depth shall be maintained adjacent to
all rear property lines which abut the
alley, residential properties, or Dawes
Street. At minimum, said buffer shall
contain one (1), fifteen (15) gallon
non-deciduous tree for each twelve (12)
lineal feet of boundary length and
sufficient deciduous trees and foundation
shrubs to provide a screen. 24" box or
larger trees shall be located at each
corner of the project, inclusive of corners
interior. No structure or use, including
parking, drive aisles or trash enclosures,
shall encroach within this area. Drainage
devices as shown on Exhibit "K" are
permitted, but shall be designed to in-
corporate full landscaping as provided for
above."
Commissioner Kelley stated that he would second the motion with an
addition of hydroseeding Phase v.
commissioner Mellinger amended his motion to include hydroseeding
of Phase V.
There being no further discussion, Chairman Washburn called for
the question.
Approved 5-0
--
2. Tentative Tract Map 22912 Premier Homes - Associate Planner
Wilkins presented proposal to subdivide 51.93 acres into 187
residential lots for development with single-family homes, located
along the west side of Terra Cotta at the terminus of Lincoln
Street, south of the future alignment of Washington Street.
Associate Planner Wilkins referred to the Memorandum dated
February 2, requesting amendment to the Engineering Department
Conditions of Approval, and attached written correspondence from
surrounding property owners.
Chairman Washburn asked Associate Planner Wilkins
Conditions of Approval that deal with drainage and
that the audience is aware of those conditions.
to read the
traffic, so
Associate Planner Wilkins read the conditions that pertain to
drainage and traffic.
Community Development Director Miller stated the City has been
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 6
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 22912 = PREMIER HOMES CONTINUED
extremely concerned about the drainage in this area, and
been diligently working to resolve some of those issues.
and the County have jointly developed a Master Plan of
for the West Elsinore Area, which is entitled the West
Master Plan of Drainage.
we have
The City
Drainage
Elsinore
Community Development Director Miller stated that as part of the
West Elsinore Master Plan of Drainage it is proposed that__
eventually a storm drain facility come around both sides of the
Junior High School and extend southerly to Washington Street,
which is along the northern boundary of this tract and then
generally along Zieglinde to Machado and then down Joy Street all
the way to the lake. This information is contained in the
memorandum under INFORMATIONAL ITEM for the Commission.
Community Development Director Miller stated that the other drain-
age facility that would generally contribute to controlling
drainage in this area would be the McVickers Canyon Channel, which
would start with a debris basin in the upper reaches of McVicker
Canyon, where the current aggregate resource recovery operations
are going on, and then have a channel extending through this area,
possibly along the general alignment of Lincoln to connect with
the existing Leach/McVicker Canyon that exists from Machado Street
down to the lake.
Community Development Director Miller stated that as part of the
West Elsinore Drainage Plan a major improvement would be proposed
to the Machado Street crossing.
Community Development Director Miller stated that the
concept that the City, County and a number of developers,
the City and County, have been working toward is a
mechanism that would allow the installation of these
facilities to protect existing and proposed development
areas.
general
in both
financing __
drainage
in these
Community Development Director Miller stated that it is our intent
in the revised condition number 60, indicating that prior to
recordation of the Tract Map the West Elsinore Master Plan of
Drainage shall be designed and approved by the Council and a
construction schedule implemented. It is our intent and hope that
would be actually in place prior to any development in this area;
this requires the cooperation of a substantial number of property
owners. If for some reason that were unable to be accomplished in
a timely fashion, beyond the control of this particular
development, condition number 61 has been suggested, which would
require this developer to install facilities to protect this
development and to intercept any drainage that would threaten this
development and consequently any downstream development and
transport that water to an existing approved facility, and those
methods would be consistent with permanent facilities required by
the West Elsinore Master Plan of Drainage.
Chairman Washburn opened the public hearing at 7:54 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Tentative Tract Map 22912.
Mr. Bruce D'Eliscu, Vice President of Premier Homes, stated that __
they had quite a challenge in finding resolutions to many of the
constraints to the property.
Mr. D'Eliscu stated that we have a drainage problem in this area
right now. I think that is evident from the audience here
tonight, this is on~ of their biggest concerns. We have no
intention of building ~ project or getting involved with a project
that is going to cause downstream damage to property owners or
upstream. What we are proposing, and the workshop has been
scheduled for Thursday night, is to form an assessment district;
we feel that is one of the only ways that it can be funded.
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 7
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 22912 - PREMIER HOMES CONTINUED
Mr. D'E1iscu stated that aside from the engineering or physical
constraints of the site, thinks that the other concern that many
people have is what is going to be built next to their home, and
-- utilized the tract map posted to describe how they reduced the
number of lots from 245 to 187.
Mr. D'E1iscu requested and received permission to show slides of
the proposed product.
Mr. D'E1iscu stated that Mr. Tom Tice, Engineer for the project
was present, and they have a couple of clarifications on several
of the conditions which they would like to discuss.
Chairman Wasburn informed Mr. D'E1iscu that he would be brought
back to the podium later to address his concerns on the conditions.
Chairman Washburn asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor of
Tentative Tract Map 22912.
Mr. Howie Torn, 506 West Graham, stated that he and his family own
the property northerly of this project. I have met with Premier
Homes and the other land owners in the area and we are very
supportive of the concept of bringing flood control to that
area. We have had conversation with Premier's Engineer about
providing some additional right-of-way to allow them to build
Terra Cotta through to st. Clair. We are in favor of the proposal.
.....
Chairman Washburn asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor of
Tentative Tract Map 22912. Receiving no response, Chairman
Washburn asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
The Secretary stated prior to opening the floor to the public,
written correspondence was included in your packet from the
following persons, stating concern on flood control matters, and
requesting that an environmental study be done:
Mr. & Mrs. Troy Roberts, 15049 Le Gaye Street;
Mr. & Mrs. David Smith, 15043 Le Gaye Street
Community Development Director Miller stated for the record, would
like to point out, there were several additional letters received,
since the preparation of the Staff Report, that were included in
the materials distributed this evening. Those include one letter
in support of the project and several letters that have expressed
opposition to the project.
Chairman Washburn asked for those in the audience who wished to
speak in opposition to Tentative Tract Map 22912.
Mr. Mike Priske, 15015 Le Gaye Street, stated that what they are
concerned about is the flood control mitigation that is going to
be done on this project. The previous tract map had a very large
-- receptor channel on the easterly portion of the project that was
roughly 30 foot wide and 8 foot deep. The first map had a lot of
engineering on it, a lot of information, a lot of things that
people could understand what they were looking at and then they
submit a plan reduced in scale and erase all of the information;
give it to you to approve without showing any flood control
mitigation on it whatsoever. without having this on the plan at
this time, you can not fully understand the size that these lots
will ultimately become. Up by Shirley Lane and Zieg1inde that
corner must be redesigned according to your Staff Report. That
corner changes, the back east corner changes and all of a sudden
the project takes on a whole different look.
Mr. Priske then commented on the following issues:
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 8
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 22912 - PREMIER HOMES CONTINUED
The applicant has not fully addressed the City's ordinance
for lot sizes; they are at 26% of what it should be, it is
suppose to be 75%, and the only way it changes is if they
give just cause why they can not do it. The project is
obviously big enough; it is spacious enough to make the lots
the proper size;
If they were to bring the plan back, show it as it truly
will transpire with all of the flood control mitigation on
it, and the redesign of Shirley and Washington;
-
You are taking that water down Zieglinde which has no curb
and gutter, it is asphalt curb and gutter, it is going to
erode just like Terra Cotta, and nobody has brought this up;
Traffic going down Zieglinde or out to Terra Cotta.
Zieglinde does not have sidewalks, there is no place for
kids to ride bikes other than on that street and it is only
40 foot wide, and they are proposing to make this a main
access. They are also saying they are giving 4% on
signalization, by the time you get around to signalizing
this people will have lived with this problem for a number
of years;
The tracts and Junior High School that has been put in with
temporary drainage facilities;
I have a letter from the previous Community Development
Director stating that Terra Cotta would go by Le Gaye
Street. It will be a curb with a blockade to keep people
from going down a dirt road, it is now designed for an
intersection. I got a letter from the City saying, I got
this before I bought the property, that you would not do
this;
-
The new General Plan calling for half acre lots in this
area. The minimum lot size that adjoins this property is a
half acre;
With the amount of mitigation that is to be done on this
project with the scale of it, the scale is very large that
you could not fully understand nor could you honestly
approve a project without knowing all of the facts, and this
is what they are aSking you to do.
Chairman Washburn asked
opposition.
if
anyone else wished to speak in
The following persons spoke in opposition stating concern on
drainage/flood control; traffic circulation; lot sizes; using an
outdated Environmental Impact Report; impact on the school system.
Mr. Albert Wilsey, 15015 Lincoln street;
Ms. Sue Scholtz, lives on Terra Cotta north of the project;
Ms. Pam Johnson, lives on Zieglinde Drive;
Mr. Cornan Johnson, 31946 st. Pierre; _
Mr. Robert Brewer, 31870 st. Pierre;
At this time, 8:35 p.m., the Commission recessed.
At this time, 8:47 p.m., the Commission reconvened.
Chairman Washburn resummed the public hearing on Tentative Tract
Map 22912, with people speaking in opposition, as follows:
Mr. Don Haskens, 31Q96 st. Pierre;
Ms. Haskens, 31996 st. Pierre;
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 9
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 22912 - PREMIER HOMES CONTINUED
~
Mr. Ray Jones, 25205 Hayes Avenue, Murrieta; owns property
adjacent to the proposal, and requested for the record that
he have the same consideration given to Premier Homes;
Mr. vito Addagna, 9532-1/2 Cedar Street, Bellflower, owns
property on Le Gaye;
Ms. Pam Eriser, 15042 zieglinde Street;
Chairman Washburn asked if anyone else wished to speak in
opposition. Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn closed the
public hearing at 9:01 p.m.
Chairman Washburn asked Community Development Director Miller if
he had any comments prior to bringing it to the table for
discussion.
Community Development Director Miller stated that perhaps he could
add some clarification to some of the issues that have been
raised. In defense of the school district they are well aware of
the problems and the City has attempted to render some assistance
to the school district, but they are working on the solutions.
There is a site tentatively identified as the withrow site, which
the school district is already in the process of acquisition and
they would anticipate construction next year. The school district
is also in the process of acquiring a site in the general vicinity
of the Junior High School.
~
Community Development Director Miller commented on Mr. Jones' re-
quest for additional information about the property adjacent to
the west of this site. Last year in 1987, the State did adopt
legislation identifying significant regional aggregate resource
areas throughout the entire state. The City of Lake Elsinore has
two such areas within its corporate limits, and one of these is in
the McVickers Canyon fan. The area that was identified by the
State as part of a potentially significant regional resource does
impact the western portions of this tract, and as identified in
the environmental documentation there is discussion of that. Due
in large part to the encroachment of the school site, withrow
school site, just southwesterly of this tract, within the area the
State has also identified for aggregate resource.
Community Development Director Miller stated that because of the
encroachment of these urban types of development or potential
developments we are suggesting, in our General Plan update, that
the aggregate resource area be identified as part of the City's
General Plan, which would generally be bounded by Lincoln Street,
on the south, and the extension of Michigan Avenue or the western
boundary of the Torn property, which is generally in line with
Robb Road. Mr. Jones' property would probably wind up with the
same designation as the Premier property currently under
discussion.
~
Community Development Director Miller informed the public of
upcoming General Plan Workshops and stated that input
encouraged. We are in the process of having workshops on
proposed General Plan that will identify these issues as well
the issue of what is an appropriate density for this area.
the
is
our
as
Community Development Director Miller stated that
adopted as part of their General Plan general
development of multi-purpose trails.
the City
guidelines
has
for
Commissioner Kelley commented on the West End Fire Station stating
this the first time he has seen it in a condition, and asked how
this is going to work; the money goes where?
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 10
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 22912 - PREMIER HOMES CONTINUED
Community Development Director Miller stated that we have had a
number of discussions with the County Fire Department regarding
fire service needs. As part of that effort, the County has
identified where they would ultimately see fire stations within
the City to meet the various demands. Generally, the Fire
Department has identified the need for a fire station to serve the
needs of the city and County areas in the general vicinity of....
Lincoln and Machado. We have had discussion with a developer
adjacent to this site about the potential of looking to some type
of acquisition of a site within that project area, that might
serve as a fire station site. We are working with the Engineering
Department, City Manager and the City Attorney to implement a plan
that would provide for funding of some of the service and the
facilities necessary to provide the services.
commissioner Kelley stated that the Railroad Canyon School will be
opening up this year and that is alleviating quite a bit of
pressure from the Grand Avenue side.
Commissioner Kelley commented on the lot size buffer, asking how
this was used from R-R to R-l on the perimeter of this develop-
ment?
Community Development Director Miller stated that as indicated in
the plan they have proposed larger lots. Generally, in the
15-20,000 square foot range with intermediate lots in between
those and the smaller lots in an effort to provide a transition
between the zoning and lot sizes you find on the south and eastern
parts of the tract perimeter to the existing subdivision.
Commissioner Kelley commented on the front yard landscaping and a ....
deed restriction placed in CC & Rls for installation of this land-
scaping; thought we discussed having the builder go ahead and
landscape the front yards, at least with grass and irrigation.
Community Development Director Miller stated that
condition that we have typically been applying to
developments.
this is the
single-family
Commissioner Kelley stated that he would like to have added as a
condition that front yard landscaping, minimum of grass and
sprinklers, to be provided by the developer.
Commissioner Kelley commented on the flood control assessment
district and asked if it was possible to make it a stipulation
that if that does not come into being that the tract is not built.
Community Development Director Miller stated that staff has
concerns that the formation of a benefit assessment district is
beyond the control of the developer and the City, in total. It
requires the cooperation of property owners to implement. This is
clearly our desire and we have made every effort to work in that
direction in cooperation with this developer and a number of other
property owners in this area, and our preferred solution is the
revised condition number 61.
....
Commissioner Kelley stated that he noticed the Certificate of
Occupancy.
Community DevelopmeQ~ Oirector Miller stated that he should
clarify that the conpition requires that those improvements be in
place prior to any Certificate of Occupancy.
Commissioner Brown cp~ented on condition number 3, asking if this
was realistic to provide for every condition of approval prior to
recordation.
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 11
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 22912 = PREMIER HOMES CONTINUED
Community Development Director Miller stated that the intent of
that condition is that the condition shall be satisfied and that
would require a variety of mechanisms to do that, either improve-
-- ment plans are approved and signed; items are bonded; various
other mechanisms to assure that the conditions will be complied
with prior to any building.
commissioner Brown stated that
like verbiage added to the CC &
driveway" .
on condition number 14, he would
Rls "parking on street or in
commissioner Brown commented on condition number 18, pertaining to
off-site grading; any banks or berms created that we are going to
permanently landscape with irrigation system installed, and asked
who is going to own those, who is going to pay the water bill or
is this going to be through the Landscaping and Lighting
Maintenance District, who is going to maintain these?
commissioner Brown commented on some of the concerns raised by
County residents, and stated that we can not, legally, take into
consideration your problem. I understand your concerns, I have
empathy for you, but your drainage problem is being mitigated by
City money and mitigated by a person building within the City of
which you return no tax dollars. The applicant is going to build
in the City and build drainage facilities that will partially
solve your problem. It has to address his problem one-hundred
percent, whatever he creates he must mitigate 100 percent.
--
commissioner Brown stated that he would probably not pass on this
subdivision tonight because of the same concerns as brought up by
Mr. Priske, and I am doing this for City residents.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that the biggest concern he has, and
its a concern that I have stated over and over for four years now,
and that is environmental protection in the entire valley. There
is an obligation for the environmental protection of all of the
people in the State of California, I do not care what City or
County they are in, and that is the reason I have concern about
traffic and drainage for this project; so therefore I do feel
there is more than a moral obligation we have an actual
requirement. Staff has done an Initial Study and indicated
mitigation and has concluded or proposed to us that all of these
impacts will be mitigated to a level of insignificance. I do not
concur, and the reason that I do not concur is because the
mitigation measures are to nebulous. I also do not concur based
on the West End Fire Station, and I definitely do not concur based
on the need for traffic signalization.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that we can create assessment
districts, create mechanisms and create all kinds of things, but
impacts are not mitigated unless the mitigation measures are in
place when the development is built. Therefore, my feeling is
-- that the Negative Declaration is inappropriate. The mitigation
measures are based upon conditions that really do not insure that
all of these mitigation measures are in place.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on condition number 61, stating
that he sees provide permanent drainage facilities and also
interim drainage facilities. What are permanent and interim if
they have to be put in at the same time?
Community Development Director Miller stated that the concern
here, and it has been expressed by several people in the audience
regarding this project, is that there are improvements that would
be necessary to handle the drainage that results from this tract.
In addition to that there is a very significant amount of drainage
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 12
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 22912 - PREMIER HOMES CONTINUED
that impacts this property that flow to it from off-site; so the
intent of the condition, as addressed there, was that the
developer shall install permanent facilities to handle all of the
drainage that would result from his tract. In addition to that
any interim facilities that would be required to handle drainage
that is impacting his site would also have to be installed.
However, the intent and desire is to install all of those__
improvements via an assessment district in which then the kinds of
problems that the residents in the audience have spoken about
would be largely protected from not only the new development but
from the existing development.
Discussion at the table ensued on revised condition number 61,
pertaining to permanent/interim drainage facilities to protect the
tract and downstream property owners.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that with the drainage he has a
problem with Certificate of Occupancy, because the buildings are
built and the impervious structures are there; thinks that this
should be at an earlier stage.
Community Development Director Miller stated that with many sub-
division many of these improvements go on concurrently.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that when the site is cleared and
graded that you have a drainage impact at that point; thinks that
there should be some sort of assurance that there will be
protection in the interim, and this should be addressed in the
conditions.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on the West End Fire Station, __
stating that it is his contention, at this point, without another
building ever being built in Lake Elsinore, if there is no West
End Fire Station fully equipped and in place, we are now at a
significant impact that can not be mitigated, that no Certificate
of Occupancy be issued, referencing condition number 29.
Commissioner Mellinger suggested that a condition be added requir-
ing sprinklers be installed in each and every house.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on condition number 44, pertain-
ing to applicant paying a share of the Lakeshore/Machado signal,
stating that the last two traffic studies indicated a signal
needed at this point. Therefore, I have no problem, this may be a
fair share. I still believe that no Certificate of Occupancy or
release of utilities shall be issued until the traffic signal at
Lakeshore and Machado is installed and operational.
Discussion at the table ensued on signalization of the Lakeshore
and Machado intersection; if it is reasonable to require a
developer in the City to bear the full burden of providing a
facility, be it a traffic signal or fire station, that serves not
only City residents but County residents; the West End Fire
Station should be in, no matter what mechanism, the traffic signal
should be in and drainage facilities should be permanent at least
around this tract. __
Commissioner Mellinger commented on condition number 8, pertaining
to drainage easements being provided to maintain drainage
facilities, and asked who would maintain these facilities?
Community Development Director Miller stated that the property
owners would be responsible for maintaining these facilities.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that he still has a problem with
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 13
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 22912 - PREMIER HOMES CONTINUED
condition number 8, does not believe individual property owners
should have to maintain a drainage facility that will ultimately,
if they do not maintain it, impact all kinds of people, not only
-- the people in the tract but everyone downstream.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that he concurs
landscaping; the parking and storage of boats.
care if it is in the driveway or not as long
the sidewalk.
with the front yard
I do not really
as it doesn't cross
commissioner Mellinger commented on condition number 27,
pertaining to the redesign of Lots 67 through 72, stating that he
finds this hard to measure, and thinks that this should be defined
clearly as to what type of ratio you want.
commissioner Mellinger commented on condition number 28, pertain-
ing to the decorative block wall and landscaped area along the
rear boundary, basically, along the Lincoln alignment, asking
who maintains this landscaping?
Community Development Director Miller stated that with any back up
wall situation it has been the recent policy of the City to
incorporate those within a Lighting and Landscaping District.
There has already been a Lighting and Landscaping District formed
for this area and it would require annexation of this property to
that district.
.....
commissioner Mellinger asked if Terra Cotta where it would replace
Shirley would be, both sides, full street constructed.
Community Development Director Miller answered in the affirmative.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that he had a problem
Traffic Study indicating only 30 percent of the traffic
to head to Orange County for work. Again, this is just
in general because we get these reports consistently not
their studies to the actual situation.
with the
is going
a comment
applying
Commissioner Mellinger stated that he failed to see this in any of
the conditions, and asked where are the additional stop signs, if
any, in the tract or will this be handled with the conditions that
were placed on the curtis tract.
Discussion at the table ensued on the location of stop signs for
this tract; if a stop sign is proposed for Terra Cotta and st.
Clair and if not then one should be.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on the aggregate resource asking
if there were any restrictions by the State.
Community Development Director Miller stated that this legislation
was just passed last year. The actual legislation requires all
..... jurisdictions within the State to incorporate as part of their
General Plan reference to these aggregate resource recovery areas
that have been identified.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that he believes that these are the
conditions related to the environmental impact, and this is where
he has the problem. If this is going to go through, I think that
some of those conditions should be revised and suggested that the
facilities be in before the people go in.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that he believed that this area
should have larger lots throughout.
Commissioner Brinley asked
association.
if
there
would be a homeowners
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 14
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 22912 ~ PREMIER HOMES CONTINUED
Community Development Director Miller stated that a homeowners
association is not proposed for this development.
Commissioner Brinley stated that the West End Fire Station has
been addressed, which I am in total favor of and it should have
been done a long time ago. But we have not addressed pOlice
protection for this area, nor did I see a park addressed.
....
Commissioner Brinley stated that one of her major concerns is the
drainage and there are aspects of this that we can not talk about
legally. We can not speak for the County and you are residents of
the County. Yes, you are in our Sphere of Influence and we do
have an impact on you and we have a general concern here. I am in
concurrence with Commissioner Mellinger that I could not approved
this tonight without a new Environmental Impact Report.
commissioner Brinley asked Associate
the original map submitted, or did we
in scale, so that it did not show
shown.
Planner Wilkins if this was
ask that it be made smaller
everything that needed to be
Associate Planner Wilkins stated
did request that it meet our
required that all tentative tract
a hundred feet to an inch or less.
that one letter that we sent out
submittal requirements, which
maps be submitted of a scale of
Commissioner Brinley stated that she agrees with the concerns
brought up by the residents, and would also like to see the same
interests and concerns taken to the County.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on condition number 44, pertain-
ing to the design and construction of traffic signal locations,
stating that he believes that the Lakeshore, Robb Road and Grand
Avenue area will certainly require a signal, in the near future,
and any development in this area should be required to pay some
sort of share for that.
....
commissioner Mellinger stated that he would like to reiterate why
he is opposed to the project, stating that at this point, the
environmental is inadequate. When a Negative Declaration is being
proposed the developer has to agree to every single condition that
will mitigate every single impact. If those are not in the design
of the project or agreed to, and they can not be negotiated at any
hearing then you can not issue a Negative Declaration. I do not
see that in concrete here; therefore, I feel an Environmental
Impact Report is necessary.
Motion by Commissioner Mellinger that we find that the proposed
Negative Declaration inadequate and that an Environmental Impact
Report, subject to the California Environmental Quality Act which
focuses on significant impacts only, be prepared with the findings
that the mitigation measures do not seem to address the impacts
fully, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Commissioner Kelley asked for discussion.
....
Discussion at the table ensued on when the applicant could bring
the proposal back fo~ review; flood control measures not becoming
a reality without the development; whether or not another motion
should be made in case Council believes that the Negative
Declaration is adequate, and whether or not this proposal would go
forward to City Council for their consideration of the Negative
Declaration, and clarification of a Focused Environmental Impact
Report.
There being no further discuss at the table, Chairman Washburn
Minutes of Planning Commission
Fc;bruary 2, 1988
Page 15
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 22912 - PREMIER HOMES CONTINUED
called for the question.
Approved 4-0 (Chairman Washburn abstaining)
-
At this time, 10:10 p.m., the Commission recessed.
At this time, 10:23 p.m., the Commission reconvened.
-
3. Zone Code Amendment 88-2 - City of Lake Elsinore - Senior Planner
Bolland presented proposal to amend the Parking code, Chapter
17.66, to clarify and revise certain parking standards relating to
entertainment uses, size of residential parking spaces, duplexes,
drive aisles, vehicle storage, and parking lot lighting. This
proposal would affect property City-wide.
Chairman Washburn opened the public hearing at 10:26 p.m., asking
for those wishing to speak in favor of Zone Code Amendment 88-2.
Mr. George Alongi, 150 East Lakeshore, requested that the garage
parking requirement be returned to the original requirement of 20
x 20 or larger, and that property owners be allowed to park their
vehicles on adjacent property they own.
A brief discussion was held on the location of appliances in the
garage; property owners being allowed to park their cars on
adjacent undeveloped property, and how to determine if a car is
being stored or if it has been abandoned on vacant property,
placing a minimum of the number of vehicles that could be parked
on the property and said vehicles having current registration,
license and being operational.
Chairman Washburn asked if there was anyone else wishing to speak
in favor of Zone Code Amendment 88-2. Receiving no response,
Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished to
speak on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn
closed the public hearing at 10:37 p.m.
commissioner Mellinger suggested the following amendments:
section l7.66.020.E:
section l7.66.020.G:
Delete the word "permanent"
Add the words "public right-of-way"
commissioner Mellinger suggested that another section
that states "no detached boats, detached trailers or
recreational vehicles shall be allowed to park out in the
If this is elsewhere in the Code then okay, but if not
should be added.
be added
detached
street."
then it
-
Chairman Washburn stated that he agrees with Mr. Alongi. The
owner of the adjacent lot has a right to park his vehicle,
provided the vehicle is operational and has current license, and
the maximum number of vehicles to be parked would be three.
commissioner Mellinger stated that
registered to whomever owns the lot.
the
vehicle
has to be
Motion by Commissioner Mellinger to recommend
approval of Zone Code Amendment 88-2 with the
second by Commissioner Brinley.
to City Council
above amendments,
community Development Director Miller stated that due to certain
difficulties of some of the issues that the Commission has raised,
particularly with reference to the streets and with enforcement of
the vacant property situation, would suggest that we review this
with the City Attorney and come back with precise language.
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 16
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-2 - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE CONTINUED
Motion by Commissioner Mellinger to continue Zone Code Amendment
88-2, with review by the City Attorney and precise language
provided on the above mentioned items, second by Commissioner
Brinley.
Approved 5-0
-
Commissioner Brown requested that Business Item #1 be considered prior
to PUBLIC HEARING #4, and that the INFORMATIONAL ITEM be deferred to a
special meeting or our next meeting.
It was the consensus of the Commission to consider BUSINESS ITEM #1 _
prior to PUBLIC HEARING #4.
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Park Plans - Friedman Homes - Associate Planner Pine presented for
approval the final concept design of parks and trails for Tracts
20472 REVISED, 20704 and 20705 of the Canyon Creek Specific Plan
Area. six (6) small parks ranging in size from 0.33 acres to 2.5,
eight (8) acres total, north and east of the intersection of I-15
and Railroad Canyon Road.
Associate Planner Pine requested the following amendments to the
Conditions of Approval:
Condition No. 3.j:
"The fitness trail between Park #2 and #3,
Tract 20704, shall be asphalt paved. A
swing-gate type barrier shall be installed
at the point of intersection between the
fitness trail and the decomposed-granite
continuance of the E.V.M.W.D. access road.
Fitness trail stations shall be Parcourse
Fitness Cluster 4-Phase Workout, with phase
modules spaces at 100 to 150 yard
intervals."
-
Condition No. 3.1: "In Park #1, Tract 20705, all sloped areas
shall be planted with indigenous creeping
ground cover species. Sun screens over
picnic tables shall be architecturally
compatible with service buildings, subject
to the approval of the Community Develop-
ment Director."
Condition No.6:
"In lieu of the park designed CP-6
(designated "14" and part of passive parks
on the Park Phasing Plan in the approved
Specific Plan) which is designated at the
rear of apartments along the freeway and
intended to serve principally the apartment
area, the developer shall incorporate two
(2) acres of open space in addition to the
normal requirements within the apartment
site which shall be developed to reduce-
potential demand for park space.
Chairman Washburn asked if the applicant would like to make a few
comments.
Mr. Martin Dowd, rep~esenting Friedman Homes, stated that if the
Commission has any questions about the parks, in particular, he or
Mr. Chris Herman pr Mr. Larry Buxton, would be happy to address
them. Otherwise, wopld just like to solicit your support and
approval of the parks as proposed.
Minutes of Planning commission
February 2, 1988
Page 17
PARK PLANS - FRIEDMAN HOMES CONTINUED
Chairman Washburn asked Mr.
recommendation.
Dowd if they concurred with staff
-- Mr. Dowd stated that they do accept the revised conditions.
Chairman Washburn asked
matter. Receiving no
discussion at the table.
if anyone else wished to speak on the
response, Chairman Washburn asked for
A brief discussion was held on parking on site for the project.
Motion by Commissioner Mellinger to approve the Park Plans for
Canyon Creek Specific Plan, Tracts 20472 REVISED, 20704 and 20705,
as submitted, based on the Findings listed in the Staff Report and
subject to the 6 Conditions of Approval as revised, second by Com-
missioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
PUBLIC HEARINGS
4. General Plan Land Use and Circulation Elements and Zoning -
Senior Contract Planner Manee presented a tentative schedule for
the public hearing process on the General Plan Revisions.
Discussion was held on why the meetings were being intermixed;
whether or not action was needed to adopt the schedule or if it is
just for public information.
.....
INFORMATIONAL
1. West Elsinore Plan of Drainage - Community Development Director
Miller stated that the city Council has scheduled a special
meeting, Thursday, February 4, 1988, to discuss this.
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Community Development Director Miller stated
further to add.
that
he has nothing
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
commissioner Mellinqer:
Requested that the City look into and perhaps request that the Terra
Cotta Junior High School have somebody patrol the area, where the
guard rail is located, before and after school.
-- Commissioner Kellev:
will be absent at the next meeting.
commissioner Brown:
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Brinley:
Nothing to report.
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 2, 1988
Page 18
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
Chairman Washburn:
Nothing to report.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
adjourned at 10:55 p.m. Motion by Chairman Washburn,
Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
~~proved,
rJJw~W f;, \r-
Gary ashburn,
Ch 'rm n
Respectful~ted.
endstaff ~
Planning Commission
Secretary
Commission _
second by
~
-
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
16TH
DAY
OF
FEBRUARY
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Secretary Grindstaff.
ROLL CALL:
--
PRESENT: Commissioners:
Brinley, Brown, Mellinger and Washburn
ABSENT:
commissioners:
Kelley
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planners Bolland and Libiez, and Associate Planner Wilkins.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brown to approve minutes of February 2, 1988,
as submitted, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Washburn asked the Secretary if there were any request to
address the commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Washburn
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Zone Code Amendment 88-2 City of Lake Elsinore - Senior
Planner Bolland presented proposal to amend the Parking Code,
Chapter 17.66, to clarify and revise certain parking standards
-- relating to entertainment uses, size of residential parking
spaces, duplexes, drive aisles, vehicle storage, and parking lot
lighting.
Chairman Washburn opened the pUblic hearing at 7:05 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone Code Amendment 88-2.
Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished
to speak in opposition. Receiving no response, Chairman Wash-
burn asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter. Receiving
no response, Chairman Washburn closed the pUblic hearing at 7:06
p.m.
Chairman Washburn reiterated his concern, as brought up at the
last meeting, that a property owner has the right to improve the
lot and park his vehicle on said lot.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she concurs; the home owner
should have the right to park a vehicle on their property, and
they should improve the lot and provide for maintenance and
drainage.
Chairman Washburn asked if the proposed Section l7.66.020.G,
would allow the owner, if he did own the adjacent lot, to comply
with that section and cause it to be developed, to some degree,
-- and then park his vehicles on it?
Community Development Director Miller stated this is what
suggested in the proposed wording in the Staff Report.
Planning Commission wished to go in that direction we
suggest various restrictions that would generally require
to improve the parking area. Again, this is an area in
the Planning Commission may wish to give staff direction.
we
If
would
them
which
Commissioner Mellinger stated that we have some fairly large
lots in the city, and on those larger lots people tend to park
recreational vehicles and so on. Asked how you tell the
difference between their back yards and a merged lot, or a side
yard and a merged lot?
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 16, 1988
Page 2
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-2 - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE CONTINUED
Community Development Director Miller referred to Section 17.66.
020.G, and Section l7.66.090.B, giving clarification and intent.
Chairman Washburn stated that he still believes that the
property owner has certain rights, but there can be measures to
protect visual impacts and concerns for maintenance.
Discussion at the table ensued on the photographs presented as
examples and whether or not ownership of the adjacent lots were
confirmed, and whether or not paving of driveways was required
on dirt roads.
--
Commissioner Brown stated that he would like to see, regardless
of the recommendation, that the owner would have to make some
kind of improvements to provide for drainage and surface control
of weeds and taking materials back into the roadway, be it mud
or whatever. If in fact, the person does not have ownership
that he has some indication from the property owner, filed with
the City, that he has permission to make those improvements.
commissioner Brown commented briefly on the screening of
recreational vehicles, stating that his concern would be that
recreational vehicles do not encroach within the setback of a
normally developed lot, regardless of whether it has a house on
it or not.
Discussion at the table ensued on the number of vehicles to be
parked on the property and what is considered operable; no
vehicles encroaching into the setbacks of what would be required
of a structure whether it be on an improved or unimproved lot;
whether or not it must be adjacent to an existing structure;
vehicles being registered to the occupant of said address, and
interpretation of proposed l7.66.020.G, pertaining to require-
ment of lot merger.
--
Commissioner Mellinger suggested that the word "permanent" be
deleted from Section 17.66.020.E.
Commissioner Mellinger requested a response from Ron KirChner,
Public Service Director, pertaining to the prohibition of
on-street parking of towed vehicles and detached recreational
vehicles, referencing memorandum included in the packet.
commissioner Brown commented on Section 17.66.090 not addressing
setback requirements and asked if this was addressed elsewhere.
Community Development Director Miller stated that setbacks were
not addressed in either section.
Commissioner Brown suggested that something be added to the end
of this section that would reflect that none of the improvements
are to be within the street right-of-way, regardless of what the
existing improvements are or existing setbacks.
Senior Planner Bolland referred to Section 17.66.140.B., which
addresses parking requirements within the required front yard __
setback.
Commissioner Brown commented on the side and rear distances,
aSking if it was sufficiently addressed in other codes.
Community Development Director Miller answered in the
stating there is not a requirement other than the one
as part of this amendment for recreational vehicles.
not a requirement that parking be set back from the
line.
negative,
proposed
There is
property
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 16, 1988
Page 3
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-2 - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE CONTINUED
Motion by Chairman Washburn to recommend approval Zone Code
Amendment with the following changes:
-
l7.66.020.G "No vehicle, boat, or trailer shall be parked or
stored on any vacant or undeveloped property in
any district, with the exception that no more
than three (3) non-commercial motor vehicles
which are operable, currently licensed and
registered to the property occupant may be
parked on undeveloped lots in the R-l (single-
family) zoning district abutting a developed
residential lot held by the same owner. The
portions of the undeveloped lot which are used
for parking shall be surfaced in compliance with
l7.66.090.B. prior to use for parking."
l7.66.020.E "When a garage is specifically required, or
provided to meet required parking, entry doors
shall be maintained in an operable condition at
all times, and no structural alteration or
obstruction shall be permitted within the
required parking area which would reduce the
number of required parking spaces. Use of
garages shall be limited to vehicular and
general storage purposes only and shall not
conflict with any applicable building, housing,
or fire codes."
-
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Commissioner Mellinger asked Chairman Washburn if this motion
included the setback.
Chairman Washburn answered in the negative.
There being no further discussion, Chairman Washburn called for
the question.
Approved 3-1 Commissioner Mellinger voting no
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Commercial Project 87-6 REVISED Del Taco, Inc. - Chairman
Washburn stated that the applicant has requested a continuance.
A brief discussion was held at the table on the number of
continuances this proposal has received.
Motion by Commissioner Brown to continue Commercial Project 87-6
REVISED to the meeting of March 1, 1988, second by Commissioner
Brinley.
Approved 4-0
-
2. sign Program for Commercial Project 87-5 - Brookstone Develop-
ment, Inc. - Associate Planner Wilkins presented for approval
the Master Sign Program for Commercial Project 87-5 in
accordance with item number 6 of the Conditions of Approval.
The site is a 1.06 acre lot located on the northerly side of
Allen Street, east side of Dexter.
Chairman Washburn asked if the applicant's representative would
like to comment.
Mr. Steve Brown, representing Brookstone Development, stated
that they are in agreement with staff recommendation.
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 16, 1988
Page 4
SIGN PROGRAM FOR COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-5 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT
CONTINUED
Discussion at the table was held on transitional landscaping
being provided at the base of the sign.
Motion by Commissioner Brown to
Commercial Project 87-5 based on
Conditions of Approval listed in
Chairman Washburn with the inclusion
along the base of the sign.
approve Sign Program for
the findings and the 8
the Staff Report, second by
of transitional landscaping
-
Commissioner Brown commented on hand painted windows signs, and
asked Community Development Director Miller if condition number
4 addresses this issue.
Community Development Director Miller stated that there are
several requirements; first of all, you could have temporary
signs in the windows that would be restricted to certain time
frames, not exceeding thirty days. You could have permanent
signs in a window as long as it did not exceed twenty-five
percent of the windown area, and the total sign area would have
to be counted as part of the sign area permitted for the
frontage.
Discussion at the table ensued on window signage, and if such
signage would have to conform to the Master Signage Program
Color Scheme.
Chairman Washburn stated that with his second, he had requested
that transitional landscaping be included, and asked if this was
something that should have been done on the project as a whole.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that it should have been.
Chairman Washburn amended his second to delete the inclusion of
transitional landscaping.
-
commissioner Brown concurred with Chairman Washburn's amended
second.
There being no further discussion, Chairman Washburn called for
the question.
Approved: 4-0
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Community Development Director Miller stated that he had nothing to
report.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Brinley:
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Brown:
-
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Mellinqer:
Commented on the Spyglass Initial Study and Notice of Preparation,
presumes the applicant did talk with staff before filing this
application, and stated that we are doing a Notice of Preparation
even though it is not close to the General Plan, or is this a
request for more than a Specific Plan, a General Plan Amendment.
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 16, 1988
Page 5
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
Community Development Director Miller stated that we are still under
discussion with the applicant as to the exact scope of the project.
They have indicated an intent to file a General Plan Amendment and a
-- Specific Plan, and the first stage would require an environmental
review.
commissioner Mellinger commented on parking at the Swap Meet,
stating that this weekend the parking problem there was just
astounding. Another problem is parking along the street was filled
up far earlier than the parking lot itself. I think that the reason
that they are doing this is because there are now three (3)
entrances and they are not manned half of the time.
Chairman Washburn asked if the Commission did not request that Code
Enforcement go out on weekends and cite violators.
Community Development Director Miller stated that Code Enforcement
did go out and cite a number of people, and we contacted the owner
who indicated that those entrances would be closed and they were
closed for a while. Apparently, these entrances are being re-opened
again, so we will follow up with the owner.
--
commissioner Mellinger stated that he could see this as perhaps
overflow, if anything, I think across the street there should not be
any parking whatsoever. I presume Cal Trans has control over that.
If the City desired no parking across the street on Saturday and
Sunday would that require Cal Trans approval, or would it be
something that the city could do?
Community Development Director Miller stated that if it were in the
public right-of-way it would require Cal Trans approval. However, I
suspect, from past conversations, that the parking on the other side
of Collier is on private property.
Chairman Washburn stated that he does know that they have been
contacting property owners trying to get permission for parking for
overflow.
commissioner Brown stated that under our new Parking Ordinance,
language adopted, all of those vehicles will be citable because it
is an unimproved area, asking if this is not correct.
Community Development Director Miller answered in the affirmative.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on the three-way stop at Riverside
and Collier, and asked why isn't this a four-way stop?
Community Development Director Miller stated that we have previously
brought Planning Commission's concern in this regard to the
attention of the Engineering Department. Apparently, they feel that
traffic flows are better with the existing situations.
commissioner Mellinger requested a report on this, stating that he
would like to see their logic.
Chairman Washburn:
Commented on the Park/Abrams project and the temporary monument sign,
stating that he was led to believe that this is a temporary monument
sign and someday they will put a real sign there.
Senior Planner Bolland stated that this was a leasing sign.
Discussion ensued on whether or not a monument sign was to go in,
the sign being a plaza identification sign and not a lease sign.
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 16, 1988
Page 6
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
Chairman Washburn suggested that staff look at the Conditions of
Approval for the Park/Abrams project and see if this is in fact the
monument sign identifying the center.
Community Development Director Miller stated that this was not
intended to be the monument sign. If it does not have the lease
information on it then it would not be in compliance with the Code,
and staff will follow-up on that.
-
Chairman Washburn commented on the General Plan Advisory Committee,
stating that they have met once already. Asked if they are coming
back with their concerns and input at the next meeting, to try and
alleviate some of the public interests and concern on the new
General Plan, is this correct.
Community Development Director Miller stated to encourage as much
public comment and information as possible we are having a series of
meetings, as presented at the last Planning Commission meeting, so
there is going to be some concurrent hearings going on with the
Planning Commission, General Plan Advisory Committee, as well as
some general pUblic workshops.
Chairman Washburn asked for the time the General Plan Workshops are
going to be held, and if this would be advertised.
Community Development Director Miller stated that we would intend to
have the workshop during the day and evening, and that it would be
advertised in the local paper.
Chairman Washburn informed the public of the hearings scheduled on
the new General Plan and that copies of the General Plan-Land
Use/Circulation and Zoning Proposal and Maps may be obtained from
Express Blueprinting, 113 North Main Street, Lake Elsinore.
-
Commissioner Kellev:
Absent
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning Commis-
sion adjourned at 7:58 p.m. Motion by Commissioner Brinley, second
by Chairman Washburn.
Approved: 4-0
,~pprov~d ,
~'~ )L
/. t2?frJJP-----
ry shburn,
Ch i n
-
Respectfully
~<U
Linda Grindstaff
Planning Commission
Secretary
"'
~
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD
ON
THE
1ST
DAY
OF
MARCH
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P. M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Kelley.
ROLL CALL:
-- PRESENT: Commissioners: Brinley, Brown, Mellinger, Kelley and
Washburn
ABSENT:
None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planner Libiez, and Assistant Planner Last.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brown to approve minutes of February 16,
1988, as submitted, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0 (Commissioner Kelley abstained)
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman
Washburn closed the.PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
-
Chairman Washburn stated that now was the time for the Public
Hearings and that Conditional Use Permit 87-6 is the first item
to be taken up.
Community Development Director Miller commented that Conditional
Use Permit 87-6 and an item under BUSINESS ITEMS, Commercial
Project 87-3, are both from the same applicant and on the same
subject matter, and suggested that the Commission might wish to
consider both matters at this time.
It was the consensus of the Commission to hear Conditional Use
Permit 87-6 and Commercial project 87-3 concurrently.
1. Conditional Use Permit 87-6 and Commercial Project 87-3 -
William S. Buck - Assistant Planner Last presented a request
to allow for the conversion of a 600 square foot single-
family residence to a commercial office building and to allow
expansion of the existing residential structure to a 3,664
square foot 2 or 3 tenant commercial office building, on a
.18 acre site located on the west side of Riverside Drive.
Chairman Washburn opened the public hearing at 7:06 p.m.,
asking if anyone wished to speak in favor of Conditional Use
Permit 87-6 and Commercial Project 87-3.
-
Mr. William S. Buck, representing the owners, Everett
Manfredi and Don Summers, commented that he feels this is a
fine project and will be an asset to the City - he designed
the building to conform to the existing old mansions visible
from this property. As far as the ingress and egress
problem, until such time as the property across the street
and the ultimate right-of-way is achieved, he feels they can
live with the "no left turn" into the property. They made an
attempt to buy the property behind it but met with no
success.
Mr. Buck further stated that they agree with all the listed
Conditions but have some questions on a couple of things -
their project will be all electric and will have no gas to
the building; all of the parcel numbers on the property have
not been listed and should show in addition to 378-264-025,
Minutes of Planning Commission
March I, 1988
Page 2
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 87-6 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-3 - WILLIAM
~ BUCK - CONTINUED
parcels 378-264-024 and -015 as well; and on Condition.#18 of
Commercial Project 87-3 he feels the requirement that a
licensed landscape architect prepare and sign the revised
landscape plan is unnecessary since he feels he is qualified
to do that, but, if necessary, just signed by a landscape __
architect if required to do that. He has done all the
landscaping on his buildings that he has built in the
community and the landscaping is growing and the buildings
are beautiful. Mr. Buck then stated he would be in the
audience and was available to answer any further questions
that might come up.
Chairman Washburn asked if anyone else wished to speak in
favor. Receiving no reply, Chairman Washburn asked if anyone
wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no response,
Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished to speak on the
matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn closed the
pUblic hearing at 7:09 p.m.
Discussion commenced at the table with the question on how
they would present left hand turns into the project and would
there be a double-double yellow line.
Assistant Planner Last replied that staff, particularly
Engineering, recommended a double-double yellow painted
median that would make it illegal to make a left hand turn
into this site.
Discussion returned to the table with the question as to __
whether the driveway entrance would be at the present
driveway and was informed that it would be a little further
north, a little higher on the curve. A concern on roof
mounted equipment was expressed and Mr. Buck replied that
none was planned for the building. Commissioner Kelley
responded that he would like the wording "There shall be no
roof mounted equipment" added to Condition #21 of Commercial
Project 87-3.
Staff was asked why applicant wouldn't be able to hook up to
the sewer.
Assistant Planner Last replied that the line in front of the
site is a forced main and you can't tap into that because it
would work in reverse and throw it back into the house.
Staff was further questioned as to how long it would be
before they could hook up to sewer and if they would now be
on septic.
Assistant Planner Last answered that it would depend on
development of the property to the south. Should development
occur, there is a condition requiring this project to hook up
to the sewer if it is within 200 feet of the site, so it is a
few years down the line.
Discussion continued on traffic and traffic safety;
antiquated intersection of Lash, Shrier and Riverside; the
traffic report stating that since visibility is adequate
there is no safety problem, then why do we continue to have a
problem there because of poor visibility; staff was asked if
there was a plan by Cal Trans to abandon that curvature
configuration entirely.
Community Development Director Miller replied that they were
not aware of that.
....
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 1, 1988
Page 3
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 87-6 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-3 - WILLIAM
~ BUCK - CONTINUED
~
Staff was them asked if applicant has contacted Cal Trans as
was stated in the report and if they had received a copy of
the response from them.
Assistant Planner Last responded in the affirmative and that
since this project has been in place, staff, in addition to
the applicant, has contacted Cal Trans several times and
their basic response has been that they feel that there is a
sight distance problem, which was addressed in the traffic
study, and what they provided as an alternative was that
either the ultimate widening of Lash would improve the
situation there and then also providing for the curb returns,
which would be the full street improvements, would help act
as turn pockets for traffic coming in and out to provide some
additional safety there. Condition #46 of Commercial Project
87-3 prohibits left turns into the site.
Additional concerns were expressed on the traffic study's
findings that there was adequate sight distance visibility to
make left turns out of the site but not adequate visibility
to make left turns into the site; feeling that visibility
would not be adequate for either.
~
Community Development Director Miller commented, for
clarification, that the sight distance from the vehicle
exiting the site would be adequate in terms of the standards
that Cal Trans sets for site distance, so that the vehicle
sitting at the driveway preparing to make a left turn would
have adequate sight distance in both directions to observe
vehicles approaching. However, a vehicle making a left turn
from the north bound lane of Riverside Drive would not have
adequate sight distance to see vehicles coming south bound on
Riverside Drive. According to the information presented from
the Traffic Engineer and reviewed by the Engineering
Department and Cal Trans, they concurred with the Traffic
Engineer's conclusions that there is adequate sight distance
according to Cal Trans standards for a vehicle sitting in the
driveway to observe vehicles from both directions.
~
Discussion continued on the sewer line in Riverside Drive and
it being a forced main up to the apex of the hill, which is
Lash, and gravity down the hill and why couldn't the project
hook to the main at the top of the hill; also asked if this
area wasn't in the area that had been under a moratorium on
building due to poor percolation and failed septic systems.
Community Development Director Miller replied that the site
sits below the apex of the hill and the sewage would have to
be taken up hill to get to where the gravity flow line is or
dig a very deep trench through the top of the hill to get
down to a point where you could connect to the gravity line.
He further stated that the moratorium area was in a lower
area on the other side of the hill, in the residential
section, where the high water table combined with poor soil
conditions, make percolation very difficult. This side of
the hill does not have the same high water table but before
the change over to a commercial enterprise this would have to
be approved by the County Health Department for adequate
percolation and hook up of the system.
Discussion returned to the table with comments on the traffic
study and its indication that a portion of the embankment
would have to be removed but that an alternative, from the
City's standpoint, would be a double striped line median to
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 1, 1988
Page 4
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 87-6 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-3 - WILLIAM
~ BUCK - CONTINUED
prevent the left hand turns. Staff was asked if Cal Trans
approved of this double striped median line; doubts whether
the double striped line would be adequate since there are "no
left turn" signs with double yellow lines allover the City
but unfortunately they don't work. __
Assistant Planner Last replied that he had not received nor
seen a response from Cal Trans on the double striped line but
that ultimately this street, based on the General Plan, is
supposed to have a median in it. The Engineering Department
did require that they do a double striped median. Condition
#8 of Conditional Use Permit 87-6 does require approval by
the Engineering Department and Cal Trans of the traffic
safety mitigation measures identified by Herman Kimmel
Associates in their report dated 1-29-88.
Discussion resumed at the table with the direction that the
wording "or the double-double stripe as indicated by staff
shall be implemented" be added to Condition #8 after the date
"1-19-88."
The applicant was called to the podium and asked if he
concurred with staff's conditions on the landscaping.
Mr. Buck answered in the affirmative except for the architect
and requested that he be allowed to do the architectural
landscaping plans himself.
Staff was asked if the state had any regulations regarding __
what plans could be done by whom as far as landscape plans
were concerned.
Community Development Director Miller responded in the
negative but stated..that they were working on a set of
landscape guidelines with the City's landscape architect
consultant. It is the recommendation within those guidelines
that they hope to present to the Commission in the near
future that the langscape plans for all buildings that would
normally fall into the non-exempt category for structures
also be designed by a landscape architect for the landscape
plan and that was the reason for the condition.
Discussion returned to the table with the comment that once
that is in place th~re wouldn't be a problem with it but feel
that if the applicarl~ complies with the condition, would have
no problem with him doing the landscape plans; concern
expressed on when sewer hook up might take place and informed
by staff that the H~alth Department requires hook up when a
line is within.~Oo feet; traffic circulation discussed and
questioned staff ~n~~he 35-foot driveway and informed that
Ca1 Trans recommena~?- this width; asked if the driveway could
be moved further ngf.th to make it a little safer although
there is the retardation lane to enter there plus the curb
return.
-
. ,:tt~~,.,. . .
Commun1ty Develop~ent D1rector M1ller stated that Cond1t10n
#47 of Commercial Ptpject 87-3 calls for 20-foot curb returns
so that means YOll"have a 20-foot radius on that curb return
and when you plot~bat in on the existing angles there, feels
they W~ll find ~lr.ris quite angled in the direct~on they are
suggest1ng, but staff could take another look at 1t and check
it out with Engine~ring.
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 1, 1988
Page 5
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 87-6 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-3 - WILLIAM
~ BUCK - CONTINUED
-
Discussion continued with a question to staff that if Cal
Trans approves the double lines, could the reflective dots be
added so as to further identify that there is no left turn
crossing permitted and staff responded that that could be
added.
Mr. Buck asked if it could be put in the record that when
Riverside Drive is widened to the ultimate right-of-way, they
could turn left into the property and the response from the
table was that it would be subject to Cal Trans approval and
once the hill is removed they could apply again and the
approval could be modified.
Motion by Commissioner Brown to approve Conditional Use
Permit 87-6 based on the Findings and the nine (9) Conditions
of Approval as listed in the Staff Report and to recommend to
City Council approval of Commercial Project 87-3 based on the
Findings and the forty-nine (49) Conditions of Approval as
listed in the Staff Report and adoption of Negative
Declaration 87-13, second by Commissioner Mellinger with
Condition #8 of Conditional Use Permit 87-6 amended to read
as follows:
Condition #8:
"Subject to the approval of the City
Engineer and Cal Trans, the traffic safety
mitigation measures identified by Herman
Kimmel Associates in this report dated
1-29-88, or the double-double stripe as
indicated by staff with reflective Botts
dots in the median, shall be implemented."
-
and the first paragraph of Condition #18 and Condition #21 of
Commercial Project 87-3 amended to read as follows:
Condition #18:
"A revised landscape plan shall be brought
back to Planning Commission for approval and
include landscape and irrigation
specifications to be approved by the City
Landscape Architect. The revised plans
should include the following:"
Condition #21:
"All
shall
shall
There
exterior downspouts and roof equipment
be painted to match the building, and
be channeled under the sidewalks.
shall be no roof mounted equipment."
-
Commissioner Brown amended his motion to include Commissioner
Mellinger's amendments.
Approved 5-0
2.
Zone Code Amendment 88-3 - City of Lake Elsinore - Senior
Planner Libiez presented proposal to amend the Zoning Code,
Chapter 17.32 - "Mobile Home Community District", of the Lake
Elsinore Municipal COde, amending fencing standards and site
development standards related to awnings, carports and patio
covers.
Chairman Washburn opened the public hearing at 7:45 p.m.,
asking if anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone Code
Amendment 88-3. Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn
asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 1, 1988
Page 6
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-3 - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE
response, Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished to speak
on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn
closed the public hearing at 7:46 p.m.
Chairman Washburn asked staff how the test was finally eroded
to the point that they wanted these changes. __
Senior Planner Libiez replied that a number of applications
came in where people tried to build wooden added structures
or attempted to put roofing on it that was more compatible
with the types of composition roofing, for instance, and they
got structures that were fairly high and rather incongruous
in terms of design of the actual coach or low profiling of
the coach. In many cases it was impossible to meet the exact
roof pitch of the coach that was set because to do so would
run the extended roof almost out to the property line and
would preclude the passing of some vehicles underneath it in
some cases. It did create a hardship in terms of cost values
to some property owners, which isn't consistent with trying
to do affordability in housing of that type.
Community Development Director Miller commented that where
this really came from was in terms of one of the discussions
City Council had had regarding several of the development
standards. City Council had identified this as an area where
they had received input from the community and determined
that the way the existing Code read, it might be more
appropriate to'take another look at it and go more in the
direction that staff has outlined for the Commission this
evening. __
Chairman Washburn opened the public hearing at 7:45 p.m.,
aSking if anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone Amendment
88-3. Receiving nos reply, Chairman Washburn asked if anyone
wished to speak ih opposition. Receiving no response,
Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished to speak on the
matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn closed the
public hearing at 7:46 p.m.
Commissioner Mellinger asked why the 6 foot 6 inches for the
fences instead of 6-foot.
Senior Planner Libiez replied that usually when you build a
block wall, if you do use solid block or slumpstone, because
of the size of the block and the mortar and usually you put a
top cap on it, it works out to about 6 foot 6 inches. You
get a finished product that way.
Commissioner Mellip$~r asked what the maximum is for fences
in the R-l Zone an,~ Community Development Director Miller
responded that the maximum allowed was eight-foot.
Commissioner Mellihi~r said the only other thing he wished,to
comment on was.. the word "encourage" or words meanJ.ng
"encourage" used ih.the ordinance. He does not feel it is -
appropriate - tB!tt. the word should be "shall." If we want
something then the.'f1ord should be "shall" in an ordinance.
In the residenti~~ guidelines then "encourage" or words to
that effect could be used.
Commissioner
17.32.080.C -
materials.
Mellinger
Materials
further
Permitted
commented that under
asked about acrylic
Community
jici'-
Developml!nt
Director Miller
replied
that
this
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 1, 1988
Page 7
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-3 - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE
-
change is a direct reflection of the comments at the Council
table. There is presently one area zoned for Mobile Home
community District within the City and approximately half of
it was developed several years ago. The remaining half of it
has been slowly in the process of developing. The comments
that have been received, he feels, indicate that the earlier
part of the development did extensively use chain link and
Council felt that where chain link was combined with
landscaping it would appear to be appropriate within the
context of the type of housing that was provided here. So
they specifically indicated that chain link, although not
normally acceptable, could be permitted at this location in
conjunction with landscaping.
Commissioner Mellinger asked if, with acrylic chain link, we
would still require landscaping and Community Development
Director Miller responded in the affirmative.
Commissioner Brown referred to Item M.2 and asked for history
on it.
Community Development Director Miller answered that the
Mobile Home Community District was adopted with very few
changes from the previous Code and he believes this is one of
the hold-overs from that Code.
-
Chairman Washburn interjected that this Chapter in the
previous Code was written in the 1960's.
Commissioner Kelley stated not to forget about the Mobile
Home ordinance over all.
commissioner Brinley asked if a hedge wasn't a little
outdated for fencing.
Community Development Director responded
reflection of what has happened in the first
development.
Chairman Washburn stated that they are really only talking
about one location currently and that is a very old location
and it is probably a combination of what exists and hedges
were used and do exist there.
that this
half of
is a
this
Motion by Commissioner Brown to recommend
adoption of Negative Declaration 88-5 and
Code Amendment 88-3 subject to the Findings
Staff Report, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
to City Council
approval of Zone
listed in the
-
3. General Plan - Land Use and Circulation Elements and Zoning -
City of Lake Elsinore - Community Development Director stated
that Planning Commissioners had previously received the two
maps that are on the wall - one representing the proposed
Land Use designations and the other representing the proposed
Circulation designations for the General Plan, and the
summary that accompanied them. They have previously had
discussions on pOlicies and Objectives. As we work more into
these, there are some General Plan designations that are
outlined within the summary associated with the Land Use
designations and they are completing additional work on the
Circulation Element. They wanted to provide the Planning
Commission an opportunity for some additional and early input
as they are working through this with the community and
advisory committees so that any comments from the Commission
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 1, 1988
Page 8
GENERAL PLAN - LAND USE AND CIRCULATION ELEMENTS - CITY OF LAKE
ELSINORE - CONTINUED
can be incorporated or they can get additional information
prior to getting into the hearings.
City Council has reviewed the schedule staff presented to
Planning Commission several meetings ago and Council __
suggested that because of the task involved and the fact that
a couple of the members of the City Council are going to be
outgoing and not continuing, that this be taken up by the new
Council. therefore, we have delayed the hearing schedule
somewhat and anticipate that this will be coming up to
hearing probably in May.
Chairman Washburn opened the public hearing at 7:54 p.m.,
asking if anyone wished to speak in favor of the General Plan
Land Use and Circulation Elements and Zoning.
Chairman Washburn commented that since there were no
questions from the audience in attendance, he would like to
make a point to the audience who is listening to this meeting
that they are talking about some changes and that early input
is very important to have because if you wait to the last
minute it may be too late. Please come down to City Hall,
take a look at the maps, or you can pick up the Circulation
and new General Plan Zoning Maps at Express Blueprint, which
is on Main Street next to the barber shop, for a nominal
cost. You can look at the properties you own or control or
look to see how the community would be planned out by the
consultant and bring your comments to City Hall.
--
Chairman Washburn closed the public hearing at 7:56 p.m.
Commissioner Mellinger suggested that just for convenience
sake, they point out some of the changes from the existing
General Plan not here, but in the future, maybe a
description, including the Circulation Element. In going
through the maps, he found it a little difficult to pick out
where the changes are.
Chairman Washburn s~ggested maybe a drop map showing dropping
out only the changes that are occurring.
Community Develop~~nt Director Miller stated they would
. .,' ~,
certa~nly see ~f tp~y could do that. Just as a comment, he
said the major r$a~on they undertook this effort was because
they all realized tbat there was a significant amount of
inconsistency between the zoning and the General Plan. This
is an effort to amend the General Plan Land Use Element and
also change the zoning at the same time so that they will be
consistent. As th~t've worked through this process ther ha~e
discovered that nearly seventy percent (70%) of the c~ty ~n
terms of area had i#consistent designations between zoning
and General Plan Land Use.
Commissioner Brinley asked how many historical sites have
been noted alread~. She has had some calls that the City is
not putting some of the historical sites on the maps.
Assistant Planner Last replied that there are twelve sites on
the map.
Commissioner Brinley asked if the Ambassador Hotel was one of
the 12 historical $ites on the map.
Community Development Director Miller replied that it was not
....
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 1, 1988
Page 9
GENERAL PLAN - LAND USE AND CIRCULATION ELEMENTS - CITY OF LAKE
ELSINORE - CONTINUED
-
but felt the reason was that although it has been there a
long time its structure has changed rather dramatically over
the years.
Commissioner Mellinger commented that traditionally alot of
historical structures, at least those that go in the National
Register, are those that retain their architectural
character. However, over the past number of years, the
emphasis has not been on whether the building has retained
its architectural character but the actual historical
significance in terms of cities, such as not so much the
appearance of the building but whether someone of historical
significance lived there or something of such significance
took place there and may be considered an historical
resource. It may be found especially in this valley since it
has a well documented history.
Discussion ensued on possible sites to consider, such as
Summerville home, church on Heald and poe Street, water tower
site, etc.; need for policy and ordinance, and looking into
CDBG funds to do a historical survey because they are
available now.
-
Community Development Director Miller commented that the City
had conducted a historical survey of structures with CDBG
funds approximately six or seven years ago and the standard
state historical survey forms were utilized and it is a
fairly comprehensive survey of sites within the City but in
terms of identifying the existing physical character. It was
not done in the terms of historical significance that
Commissioners Mellinger and Brinley and Chairman Washburn
referred to.
-
Community Development Director Miller added that what is
being suggested by the Commission tonight would be a
significant departure from the current methodology that has
been employed and asked the Commission if they wished to
develop something along these lines or whether this is
something for future projects and just how extensively do
they want to undertake the type of historical designations
and preservations that might be suggested by this approach.
They would need quite a bit of additional input, particularly
from people familiar with the history of the City.
Chairman Washburn answered that they did want the new
approach also utilized and requested anyone from the public
that if they know anybody or have lived here and know any
historical significant sites, to please let the City be
aware of that, plus the Planning Division.
Commissioner Mellinger remarked that it should be a General
Plan goal and included in the revised General Plan and,
secondly, they should Ultimately develop an ordinance
addressing both the ones in the survey now and the ones to be
added from the new approach. CDBG funds could be used in the
future.
BUSINES ITEMS
1. Commercial Project 87-3 - William S. Buck - Considered and
approved with Conditional Use Permit 87-6.
2. Commercial project 87-6 REVISED - Del Taco, Inc. - Chairman
Washburn stated that staff has requested a continuance of
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 1, 1988
Page 10
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-6 REVISED - DEL TACO. INC.
this matter to March 15, 1988, and Chairman Washburn so
moved, second by Commissioner Kelley.
A brief discussion was held at the table on the number of
continuances this proposal has received and applicant's
filing of a Variance for a parking variance which staff feels __
should be considered at the same time as the Commercial
Project and the need for additional time to permit
advertising and public notice requirements related to the
Variance.
Approved 5-0
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Community Development Director Miller stated he wanted to comment
in response to one of Commissioner Kelley's earlier remarks
regarding the Mobile Home Park Ordinance. As the Commission is
well aware, they have approached a mobile home park ordinance on
several occasions in the past. The County of Riverside has been
extensively involved in drafting a mobile home park ordinance and
it was actually adopted by the Planning Commission and Board of
Supervisors, however, subsequent to the first reading of the
ordinance by the County Board of Supervisors there were a number
of legal questions raised with respect to the State mobile home
park regulations and they referred it back to their attorney for
review. This review has been underway for quite a number of
months and most qf the issues that have been raised and those
that have been raised in part by the State would affect any
efforts that we would have regarding a mobile home ordinance. We __
have been awaiting the determination as to what extent the State
may preempt the field of mobile home park regulations. At such
time as the State issues a clear directive and the issues
surrounding Riverside County's mobile home park ordinance are
resolved, we will certainly bring forward a ordinance to the
Planning Commission and the Council for review.
Community Development Director Miller further stated that over
the past month and a half they have conducted a complete
inspection of all mobile home parks in the City and given quite a
number of correction notices to tenants and owners of those parks
and are working with them to see that all corrections are made in
compliance with all existing ordinances and State regulations are
complied with.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Brown:
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Me11inqer:
Commissioner Mellinger stated he understood the Planned unit
Development (PUD) ordinance was still being worked on. Another
thing that they were looking at, since they had an ordinance to
look at today, the R-1 accessory uses that they discussed at a
study session with Counpil and then further discussed here at the
table - still waiting for that. Secondly, a report from the
Engineering Department regarding a 3-way stop at Collier and
Riverside, still have that concern. It was indicated at the last
meeting that that was the best situation for traffic flow right
now. He wholeheartedly disagrees. If you are going to have a
3-way stop, it should be just the opposite. Right turns are a
....
~
~
~
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 1, 1988
Page 11
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS - CONTINUED
lot easier than left turns. There would be no one crossing. He
would still like to see that report or claim. In that same
matter, he would have the same concern about a couple of reports
he had made approximately two years ago. One, a 3-way stop under
City and County jurisdictions at Machado and Grand; he requests
another letter be sent to the County requesting that it be
reconsidered as it is a dangerous situation; and second, a ditch,
also in City-County jurisdictions, that was dug, by County or
not, at Machado and Lakeshore, a serious accident happened there
the other day when a car went into the ditch. Also a school
crossing walk goes right into this ditch. He then requested
report on status for an ordinance to prohibit the parking of
detached trailers, RV's and boats.
Commissioner Mellinger then stated he wished to make a general
comment relating to a General Plan revision on the newspaper
planning around the lake on the concept plans he has only seen in
the newspaper, regarding floodplain development, downtown
development, and redevelopment plans, none of which have gone
before the Planning Commission. The plans are exciting and he
agrees with that and thinks that in the long run they will help
the City, however, he feels there should be a little more due
process, so to speak. He has concerns on environmental review on
such plans, has strong concerns and is completely opposed to
large residential development in the floodplain and thinks it is
environmentally unsound, almost a fraudulent type situation
because they have received almost no information. It is all
going in the newspaper. His overall concern is that with any
development in the City, especially around the lake, we have to
have some sort of concern for our cumulative impacts upon the
City and the valley. Need proper mechanism to make sure that
traffic circulation, drainage, the police protection and fire
protection keep up with the growth - so far it hasn't.
Commissioner Kelley:
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Brinley:
Nothing to report.
Chairman Washburn:
Chairman Washburn stated he has three things:
1. He is concerned about the safety of the people who are
crossing Lakeshore Drive at the new neighborhood commercial
center, where Circle K and Domino's Pizza are located. Seems
reasonable that there should be a crossing there with
striping.
2. Some time ago he had requested that the Engineering
Department look at a 3-way stop at Dexter and 2nd and would
like to know if they have looked at it and if there has been
a response. It is a school bus stop and cars just go zooming
around that curve at 2nd and Dexter.
3. Adding to what Commissioner Mellinger said, it is the
responsibility of the Council and the Planning Commission to
look at how we grow and how we do it in a proper fashion to
provide the services and protection for the community as it
grows here without screwing up a good thing. If we don't do
it, citizens will do it and other communities have found that
citizens usually when they put it in place don't do it very
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 1, 1988
Page 12
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS - CONTINUED
well because they go about it through a ballot box initiative
which doesn't work effectively for implementation. Chairman
Washburn stated he attended a conference in Indian Wells and
it had nothing to do with anything else but that and the
speakers all said the same thing that government officials
should do what is necessary so that the citizens do not need __
to go to a ballot initiative.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 8:20 p.m. Motion by Commissioner
Brinley, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved: 5-0
{::~;b~
c~~an
Respectfully submitted,
~~~~-
Ruth Edwards
Acting Planning
commission Secretary
-
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
15TH
DAY
OF
MARCH
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Brinley.
ROLL CALL:
-- PRESENT: Commissioners: Kelley, Brinley, Brown, Mellinger and
Washburn
ABSENT:
Commissioners: None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planner Libiez and Assistant Planner Magee.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve minutes of March 1, 1988,
as submitted, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Washburn asked the Secretary if there were any request to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Washburn
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
--
1. Conditional Use Permit 88-2 - American Legion - Senior Planner
Libiez presented a proposal to convert existing vacant
optometrist office to allow American Legion functions including
meetings, and private bar open 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. seven days
per week, located at 158 North Main Street.
Chairman Washburn opened the
if anyone wished to speak in
88-2.
public hearing at 7:06 p.m. ,asking
favor of Conditional Use Permit
Mr. Dick Batson, Commander of American Legion Post 200, stated
that they have a concern with several of the conditions placed on
the proposal.
Chairman Washburn informed Mr. Batson that he would be called
back to the pOdium to address his concerns at the close of the
pUblic hearing.
--
Chairman Washburn asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of Conditional Use Permit 88-2. Receiving no response, Chairman
Washburn asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished
to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn
closed the public hearing at 7:10 p.m.
Chairman Washburn called Mr. Batson back to the podium.
Mr. Batson stated that there will not be much major remodeling
done, referring to condition number 4. We have already started
taking down the partitions that Dr. Blower had for his examining
rooms, these were non-bearing walls. When we move in, the office
that will be put in is a free-bearing wall and if we need a
permit for this I would like to know. It is my understanding
that for a free-bearing wall you do not have to have a permit.
Mr. Batson asked if they have to build a barrier to enclose the
dumpster, condition number 6.
Chairman Washburn asked for staff's opinion/direction.
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 15, 1988
Page 2
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-2 = AMERICAN LEGION CONTINUED
Senior Planner Libiez responded in the affirmative, stating that
it would be a standard trash enclosure for commercial locations.
Mr. Batson stated that behind the building there is a set of steps
and would like to know what the requirements are for redoing the
steps, referring to condition number 8.
Senior Planner Libiez stated that the stairs needed to be
replaced or repaired, basically this was the reason for this
condition.
.....
Mr. Batson commented on condition number 12, pertaining to
installation of grease trap or interceptors or provide written
waiver for installation requirements, stating that they will not
have a kitchen at this location.
Chairman Washburn stated that the provision here, as it stands,
is that you would probably be able to get a written waiver on
that. The key here, I know why staff included this, is in case
you decided at some point to do that then you would have to
comply with the regulations.
Mr. Batson commented on condition number 14, pertaining to
providing paved, striped and properly landscaped parking spaces
and driveway sufficient to serve the use, stating that they are
leasing the building not the lot.
Commissioner Brinley commented on the parking lot asking staff if
the City pays any kind of rent toward the parking lot; if the
City uses the facility to park any of their vehicles, and whether
or not it is posted as a public parking lot. __
Community Development Director Miller stated that there had
previously been an agreement between Mr. De Pasquale and the DBA
(Downtown Business Association) for the use of that parking
facility. That agreement has been terminated and the City does
not participate in any funding or pay Mr. De Pasquale for the use
of that facility. . There is no public parking indicated there at
this time, and the signs that had originally been there were
removed when the agreement between the DBA and Mr. De Pasquale
was terminated.
Commissioner Brinley stated that her view on the parking lot, the
fact that you are going to be open until 9:00 p.m., people will
be coming out into the dark and for their own protection the
parking lot should be paved and have lighting.
Commissioner Brinley asked Mr. Batson how long is interim?
Mr. Batson stated that it could be anywhere from eight (8) to
twelve (12) months.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she would like to see the
parking lot and trash enclosure requirements met.
Commissioner Brinley asked staff if the building would be re- __
inspected by the building inspector once all of the improvements
have been made.
Senior Planner Libiez responded in the affirmative.
Commissioner Kelley stated that Commissioner Brinley covered all
of his concerns.
Commissioner Brown stated that one of the concerns that you have
when you go to move a business is moving in a new area, the new
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 15, 1988
Page 3
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-2 - AMERICAN LEGION CONTINUED
-----
facility may not meet your needs as far as parking. I do not
think that it is fair to allow a business to move into an
existing facility and not make the improvements someone right
next door would have to do. I believe in the parking
requirements.
commissioner Brown stated that he would like to see a condition
added that the Conditional Use Permit is good for one (1) year
only and subject to review every six (6) months, so that we can
see if this is an interim situation or not.
commissioner Brown stated that in the past the American Legion
has had many social events, and I see the occupancy is limited to
thirty (30) people, asked what is going to happen to your events
in the future?
commissioner Brown stated that he is concerned with the size of
the building, the facility's ingress/egress, parking and adequate
lighting for the parking area and handicap access to the
restrooms.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that he has the same concerns.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on the occupancy load, thirty
(30) persons maximum, and asked if there would be more than this.
-----
Commissioner Mellinger stated that he has the same concern on
interim, stating that if it is one (1) year then we could put a
maximum of one (1) year.
commissioner Mellinger commented on condition number 14, and
stated that the following case has a finding that he agrees with
"all developments to have required parking per the Zoning
Ordinance", and asked for the number of spaces that would be
required.
Community Development Director Miller stated that since fully
dimensioned plans have not been submitted we have not determined
the maximum occupancy under the Building Code.
Chairman Washburn asked if notification to property owners within
a three-hundred foot radius was sent out, and if any input was
received.
Community Development Director Miller responded that notices were
mailed and no comments received.
Chairman Washburn stated that he
the trash enclosure, some type
screened, as this will also
attend the Legion's meeting, so
a dual purpose.
has no problem with working out
of receptacle that could be
be an entry for the people that
it would seem like it will serve
Chairman Washburn stated that he concurs with Commissioner
Brinley that there has to be some type of lighting provided, what
is there is probably not adequate to provide safety for those
that enter the facilities.
Chairman Washburn stated that he would like to see condition
number 14 in place, but concurs with commissioner Brown on this
condition.
Chairman Washburn stated that he agrees with Commissioner
Mellinger on meeting code requirements.
Commissioner Brown stated that one concern is the fact that the
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 15, 1988
Page 4
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-2 = AMERICAN LEGION CONTINUED
American Legion has had many social events in past and you do not
want to have them at this facility; how this would be prevented?
Mr. Batson stated that the social functions that they do have
usually go out in their bulletin, a monthly calendar and
everything is listed. The only way we have the functions is we
advertise them through our membership.
Discussion at the table ensued on whether or not the American
Legion was planning on any social events for this next year, and
the occupancy load.
-
commissioner Mellinger asked if there was a provision in the code
that would allow condition number 14 to be waived.
Community Development Director Miller stated that the code does
require provision of parking when there is a change of use for
a facility. In the past the Planning Commission or City Council
has allowed interim uses with conditions that something be
allowed for an interim period.
Mr. Batson stated that the Legion has lights, which are on
timers, and we would be taking these with us.
Discussion at the table ensued on lighting of the site; whether
or not vapor lighting meets City Standards.
Commissioner Brown stated that there is concern at the table
about not putting in inadequate facilities, and suggested perhaps
a dust free surface; traffic stops along Main Street to prevent
any car from going out onto the sidewalk area; adequate lighting;
remove any debris and provide a weed free and clean surface,
maybe oiled DG or lightly oiled DG to prevent dust that way we
have an interim facility that is not terribly expensive.
-
Commissioner Mellinger suggested looking into a code amendment
for these interim facilities.
Motion by Commissioner Brown to approve Conditional Use Permit
88-2 based on the Findings and subject to the 16 Conditions of
Approval listed in the Staff Report, with the following
amendments:
Condition No. la: "This Conditional Use Permit is good for
one (1) year from date of commencement of
occupancy and subject to review every six
(6) months."
Condition No.6:
"Trash enclosure shall be constructed per
City Standards as approved by the
Community Development Director. Interim
screening for trash enclosure shall be
provided, but does not need to be to full
trash enclosure standards."
Condition No.14:
"Applicant shall provide interim parking
facilities consisting of a dust free
surface; parking stops on the Main Street
side; adequate lighting and removal of all
debris and maintenance of weeds and
debris."
-
Second by Commissioner Kelley.
Commissioner Mellinger asked for discussion, stating that he
thinks that there should be a transmittal to City Council that
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 15, 1988
Page 5
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-2 - AMERICAN LEGION CONTINUED
there be a code amendment based on past precedence for interim
parking facilities. I believe that we should have the authority
to do this based upon the Conditional Use Permit process on an
-- interim basis, but it should be in the code somewhere.
There being no further discussion at the table, Chairman Washburn
called for the question.
Approved: 4-1 Commissioner Mellinger voting no
It was the consensus of the Commission to hear Variance 88-3 and
Commercial Project 87-6 REVISED concurrently.
2.
Variance 88-3 and Commercial Project 87-6 REVISED - Del
Inc. - Assistant Planner Magee presented proposal to vary
the required parking standards to allow a three (3)
reduction, and to construct a 1,872 square foot fast
restaurant, located on the east side of Lakeshore
approximately 245 feet north of Riverside Drive.
Chairman Washburn opened the public hearing at 7:42 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor.
Taco,
from
space
food
Drive
Mr. Westfall, representing Del Taco, stated that they were
requested by the Commission at a previous meeting to redesign the
site plan to provide parking in the rear. In doing so, the
parking came out short of the City requirement and I wanted to
leave open the option of being able to discuss that site plan.
--
Chairman Washburn asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of Variance 88-3. Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn asked
if anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no response,
Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter.
Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn closed the public
hearing at 7:44 p.m.
commissioner Kelley informed Mr. Westfall that he appreciates his
efforts, thinks that he had tried very hard to work with staff.
commissioner Kelley asked
would be if you were to
building?
Mr. Westfall stated that in reading through the staff report and
looking at the square footages we would have to reduce either the
public dining or kitchen area. If we reduce the square footage
of the kitchen area we would not have the necessary storage room
required by the County Health Department. If we reduce the
dining room area requirement what we run into is a severe cutback
of our seating. We feel that we would not be able to handle the
customers at the lunch and dinner hour, and it would make the
project unfeasible, due to lack of seating.
Mr. Westfall what ramifications there
reduce the square footage of the
--
commissioner Kelley stated that since we are considering both of
these items together that he would go along with staff's recom-
mendation on option 3.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she has problems with the pro-
posal and does not understand why the building can not be
reduced. .
Mr. Westfall responded that there are two areas in which we are
talking. In the kitchen area we have certain clearances that we
have to maintain around equipment, our kitchen is very small and
tight in order to be efficient. The only room that I have that I
could reduce any square footage, and not effect the actual food
preparation, is the storage area and the County has require-
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 15, 1988
Page 6
VARIANCE 88-3 ~ COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-6 REVISED - DEL TACO CONTINUED
ments on certain amounts of storage area, and it would also force
us to receive daily deliveries.
Discussion at the table ensued on County requirements for storage
areas; applicant's willingness, at previous meeting, to reduce
seating capacity, if necessary, and provide parking in the rear.
Commissioner Brinley stated that at this time she would go with
staff's recommendation to deny the variance.
....
Commissioner Brown stated that he wants to see the parking at the
rear of the building, and understands the applicant's concern to
have adequate space to serve his customers. One of my concerns,
back from the beginning of the project, was that the site was
inadequate to house the project to begin with, and we have tried
to make it work the way we want to see it and the applicant has
tried to make it work the way he wants it. I hope that our
aesthetics will out and the business will go in anyway.
Commissioner Brown stated that he would not vote for the variance
and will stick with the revised site plan, so I would go with
option 2.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that he would also recommend denial
of the variance. For one thing, I still contend, as in staff's
findings listed in the variance that our General Plan does not
allow parking variances.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that the only concern that he has
about parking in the front, at this time, would be the conflict
of the drive-thru with parking spaces. I noticed that staff ....
recommended option 3, asked staff if there was any concern about
the conflict of the drive-thru with the parking spaces.
Assistant Planner Magee stated that this was discussed at length,
however, it was felt that there was adequate turnaround room,
and believes there is a 24 foot wide drive aisle there.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that his only concern is people
driving out of the drive-thru area and other people backing up,
it might be a problem. Other than that, I do not have a whole
lot of problem with the parking in front with the increased
landscaping. I would go along with more trees in the landscaped
area adjacent to the parking area in addition to the street
trees, and I would go for a couple of small trees in the planter
areas, referring to the site plan posted.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that his only concern was the
conflict with circulation, as long as staff has no concern, would
recommend denial of the variance and go with option 3, with
further upgrade in landscaping.
Community Development Director Miller stated that as Assistant
Planner Magee indicated this was discussed at length with the
applicant. Generally, the drive-thru situation was viewed fairly
similar to a normal driveway situation. __
Commissioner Brown asked if it was possible to change the
drive-thru exit to the street, or are the tolerances too close to
the other entrance.
Community Development Director Miller responded that from a
circulation standpoint we try as much as possible to reduce the
number of ingress/egress points along major arterials. Although,
it makes on-site circulation better by having the maximum number
of driveways it significantly diminishes the carrying capacity of
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 15, 1988
Page 7
VARIANCE 88-3 ~ COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-6 REVISED - DEL TACO CONTINUED
streets to have increased driveways.
--
commissioner Brown suggested
directly to the street and
twelve feet (12') closer to
scaping and put the three (3)
that the exit driveway be taken out
move the building, approximately
the street, and have that all land-
parking spaces behind the building.
commissioner Brown stated that he would like to see the plan come
back with all of the parking spaces in the back.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that he would have to agree with
staff on the ingress/egress.
commissioner Kelley stated that he would like to reiterate that
he agrees with Commissioner Mellinger on option 3.
Chairman Washburn asked staff if the
northwest and fronts Lakeshore Drive is
22613 or is this a separate site;
submitted for this parcel.
Assistant Planner Magee referred to Exhibit B, and stated that
the parcel in question is not a part of the tentative map, and
that no plans or input has been submitted.
parcel immediately to the
part of Tentative Map
have there been any plans
Chairman Washburn stated that he concurs with staff on the
variance request.
-
Discussion at the table ensued on concern for the berm and what
the height would be, and the type of vegetation to be utilized;
planting and spacing of vegetation for the berm.
Chairman Washburn stated that if we go with the design shown,
which is the parking up front and the larger landscaping, would
there also be a crossing brick pattern or textured pattern
exiting the site?
Assistant Planner Magee responded in the affirmative, stating
that there would be a ten-foot (10') brick pavement treatment,
which is covered in the Conditions of Approval.
Chairman Washburn asked if there would be a requirement for
signage; stop, slow or a mild speed bump, when coming around the
corner of the building exiting the site.
Mr. Westfall stated that they have no objection to putting up a
stop sign or posting a "caution watch for cars" sign, or however
staff would like it worked out.
~-
Chairman Washburn stated that
the direction of option 3 with
paving treatment and signage.
Motion by Chairman Washburn
findings listed in the staff
Mellinger.
Approved 5-0
Motion by Chairman Wasburn to recommend that City Council reaffim
Negative Declaration 87-23, approve Commercial Project 87-6
REVISED, option 3, based on the findings and the 41 Conditions of
Approval listed in the Staff Report and the following amendments:
reluctantly he would move toward
increased landscaping, textured
to deny Variance 88-3 based on the
Report, second by Commissioner
Condition No. 42:
"Increased landscaping shall be provided
adjacent to Lakeshore Drive, subject to
the approval of the Community Development
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 15, 1988
Page 8
VARIANCE 88-3 k COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-6 REVISED - DEL TACO CONTINUED
Director."
Condition No. 43:
"A stop sign or caution sign at the end of
the drive-thru shall be installed, said
sign shall be located within a landscaped
area and shall not exceed four-feet (4')
in height, subject to the approval of the
Community Development Director."
-
Second by Commissioner Mellinger.
Approved 3-2 (Commissioners Brown and Brinley voting no)
At this time, 8:07 p.m. the Commission recessed.
At this time, 8:15 p.m. the Commission reconvened.
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Commercial Project 87-6 REVISED - Del Taco, Inc. - Considered and
approved with Variance 88-3.
2. Commercial Project 88-2 - Jess Rodriguez - Community Development
Director Miller presented a request to construct a 480 square
foot addition to an existing 480 square foot office building,
located at 16645 Lakeshore Drive.
Chairman Washburn asked the applicant
there were any comments they would
conditions.
or his representative if
like to make on the
Mr. Phil Williams, contractor for the project, stated that they
feel they have met all of staff's requirements and would like to _
see the project go through.
Commissioner Mellinger asked Mr. Williams if they agree with
condition number 4, deletion of parking space number one and this
being landscaped.
Mr. Williams stated that this would be fine as long as they meet
the parking requirements.
Discussion at the table ensued on the north elevation and the
indication that some sort of architectural treatment be provided;
providing a color stripe to match the mansard roof; providing
window and door treatment on the front elevation, and screening
of air conditioning equipment.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley
based on the findings and
Approval listed in the Staff
Brown.
Approved 5-0
to approve Commercial Project 88-2
subject to the 15 Conditions of
Report, second by Commissioner
INFORMATIONAL
1. Update and Revision of the General Plan Land Use and Circulation
Element - Contract with Alan Manee Community Development
Director Miller informed the Commission that our contract with
Alan Manee for revisions to the General Plan has ended.
-
The process has taken longer than we had anticipated, and in
meeting with some of the General Plan Advisory Committee and
comments from Council it is going to take a little longer. Staff
will continue working on the General Plan Land Use Element, and
we would anticipate bringing this to Planning Commission for
formal hearings in June. We hope to have workshop sessions with
the Planning Commission in May for your preliminary input.
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 15, 1988
Page 9
INFORMATIONAL ITEMS CONTINUED
~
2. Reinvestment in Lake Elsinore Program - Community Development
Director Miller stated that the Commission has been provided
information on the Reinvestment in Lake Elsinore Program that was
presented to the Redevelopment Agency on February 23, 1988. This
packet describes the planning and negotiating agreements that the
Redevelopment Agency has approved for seven (7) Project Areas
within the downtown area and around the lake. At this time,
these are planning agreements that would provide for refinement
of conceptual plans, and at such time those are done they would
go through the normal review process, which would include public
hearing before Planning Commission and City Council.
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Community Development Director Miller stated that we have given the
Commission a copy of the Engineering Department response to the
traffic and safety concerns that were expressed at the previous
meeting.
Chairman Washburn stated now that staff is handling the continuation
of the Land Use and Circulation Elements feels that it should not be
slowed down. If anything, the more input from the Advisory Committee
the better off you are and the sooner the workshops start with the
citizens the better off the community is.
Community Development Director Miller stated that in working with the
General Plan Advisory Committee it appears that we will have several
-- more meetings with .them and continue to meet with the public. The
workshop sessions and formats are going to take longer than
originally anticipated, so we are not suggesting that they be fewer
in fact there will probably be more.
Chairman Washburn stated that his suggestion was not to have a large
gap in between.
Commissioner Brinley asked if notices will be sent out in advance.
Community Development Director answered in the affirmative.
Chairman Washburn asked
party to assist in the
General Plan, stating
assistance.
if staff would be taking on another temporary
preparation of updating and revising the
that he is in favor if staff needs that
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Kelley:
Commented on the maintenance of storm drains, asking if the County of
Riverside was responsible for this maintenance.
--
Community Development Director Miller stated that he believes that
all of the existing storm drains within the City are the
responsibility of the Riverside County Flood Control District.
Commissioner Kelley stated that there is a concrete storm drain
behind Amberwood Court and trees are growing inside of it; the fence
that comes down is also loose and this could be a safety hazard.
Asked if staff could relay this to the County Flood Control District.
Community Development Director stated
Commissioner Kelley could give staff
direct that to their attention.
that after the meeting perhaps
the precise location and we
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 15, 1988
Page 10
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
commissioner Brinley:
Commented on the large problem with skateboarders in shopping center
parking lots, Brookstone Landing and Stater Brothers, stating that
cars are being damaged and this is also creating a safety hazard for
customers and the skateboarders themselves, and asked what type of
solutions could be provided to eliminate this problem before someone __
is really hurt.
Chairman Washburn asked if this had not been brought up to Council's
attention recently.
Community Development Director Miller stated that this was brought
before the City c~uncil at their last meeting and, it was indicated
at that point 1n time, generally it is the responsibility of the
private property owners to take action. It was indicated by Council
that if the private property owners wished to take action to enforce
regulations within their property then there are mechanisms that
other jurisdictions use to allow the granting of public easement to
the City and consequent enforcement of regulations by local
police agencies.
Commissioner Brown:
Would like a review, at the next meeting, of the landscaping
requirements for the commercial project at Railroad Canyon and Grape.
I would like staff to quickly peruse this, I do not believe it meets
what we required. I would like to see no further occupancy permits
issued to any business in that center.
Assistant Planner Magee stated that the occupancy of the entire __
center was not released until the landscaping was put in according to
plan, that included landscaping across the back.
Commissioner Brown stated that if staff has already reviewed these
plans then he would like to see it come back to the table, because
there are several people here at this table that believe we approved
one thing and several items are not there, including transitional
landscaping around the sign.
commissioner Brown stated that one thing that may cause concern in
the future and it may not, I am sure it is because of the newness to
the area, but Sizzler has taken up about all of the available parking
spaces for half of that shopping center. Perhaps, in the future, on
our shared parking ordinance agreement we may need to address this.
Commissioner Brown stated that he has had several positive responses
from Council and Commission, but nothing seems to be happening, I
would like to know about the status of stop signs at Railroad Canyon
and the freeway off-ramps.
Commissioner Mellinqer:
Commissioner Mellinger stated that he concurs with the stop signs at
Railroad Canyon Road and the freeway off-ramp, and that stop signs
should also be placed at Central and the freeway off-ramp, it is just
as bad.
....
Commissioner Mellinger stated that he was happy to see the response
from Engineering Department and would like a status report in one (1)
month, two meetings from now, to see what the progress is on each of
these items.
Thanked staff for the information regarding the Redevelopment Agency
concepts.
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 15, 1988
Page 11
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
Requested a schedule on the General Plan action, obviously there will
be some massive General Plan and Zone Code changes required.
-
Chairman Washburn:
Thanked the Engineering Department for their response on the traffic
and safety concerns.
I would like to point out to the public that any concern on the new
General Plan Map, which is available at Express Blueprinting, can be
directed to Nelson Miller or David Bolland. My feeling is that the
more input the community has on that the better off the community is.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore
Commission adjourned at 8:34 p.m. Motion by Commissioner
second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
Planning
Brinley,
-
Respectfully,
~
Linda Grindstaff
Planning Commission
Secretary
-
-
-
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
5TH
DAY
OF
APRIL
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Brown.
ROLL CALL:
-- PRESENT: Commissioners:
Kelley, Brinley, Brown, Mellinger and
Washburn
ABSENT:
commissioners:
None
Also present were Community Development Director
Planner Libiez, Assistant Planners Magee and Last,
Planner Wilkins.
Miller, Senior
and Associate
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brown to approve minutes of March 15,1988, as
submitted, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Washburn asked the Secretary if there were any request to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Washburn
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
-
1. Tentative Parcel Map 23307 Shores ide Investors/Park Abrams
Development Company - Assistant Planner Magee presented a request
to subdivide an existing 1.08 acre commercial site into two (2)
parcels containing 0.72 and 0.37 acres respectively, located on
the northeast corner of Lakeshore Drive and Riverside Drive.
Chairman Washburn opened the public hearing at 7:03 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Tentative Parcel Map 23307.
Mr. Doug Weston, Park Abrams Development, spoke in favor of the
parcel map and requested clarification on condition number 6, 11,
12, and 13.
-
Chairman Washburn informed Mr. Weston that he would be called
back to the podium at the close of the public hearing to discuss
the conditions in question.
Chairman Washburn asked if there was anyone else wishing to speak
in favor of Tentative Parcel Map 23307. Receiving no response,
Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished
to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn
closed the public hearing at 7:05 p.m.
Chairman Washburn called Mr. Weston back to the podium.
Mr. Weston stated that they have complied with the majority of
the conditions, we thought, going through the process before.
Specifically, condition number 6, 11, and 12, paYment of fees, we
would like an outline of what fees are being talked about; have
we paid those; is this a standard condition or whatever.
Mr. Weston then requested clarification on condition number 13,
pertaining to obtaining agreement for on-site drainage.
Assistant Planner Magee stated that he believes that Mr. Weston
is correct with reference to condition number 6, would have to
Minutes of Planning commission
April 5, 1988
Page 2
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23307 - SHORESIDE INVESTORS/PARK ABRAMS DEVELOP-
MENT COMPANY CONTINUED
check with the Engineering Department, but believes since we have
finaled the project all of the Capital Improvement fees would
have been paid. In reference to condition number 11 and 13, I
cannot comment; condition number 12, is a new condition it was
not attached to the original Conditions of Approval, and it is
something that the Engineering Department felt was necessary.
A brief discussion at the table ensued on paYment of fees;
continuing the proposal to allow the applicant to get with staff
and resolve the issues and bring it back to the Commission, or
conditioning the proposal so that it is not redundant if the fees
have been paid.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to continue Tentative Parcel Map
23307 to the meeting of April 19, 1988, second by Commissioner
Kelley.
Approved 5-0
--
2. Tentative Parcel Map 23381 - Camelot Property Counselors, Inc. -
Assistant Planner Last presented a request to subdivide three (3)
existing parcels (12.49, 4.03 and 1.17 acres respectively) into
six (6) parcels, located on the northeast corner of Mission Trail
and Malaga Road with a portion abutting Casino Drive.
Chairman Washburn opened the public hearing at 7:11 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Tentative Parcel Map 23381.
Mr. Leonard O'Byrne, Camelot Property Counselors, Inc., spoke in
favor of the proposal. __
Chairman Washburn asked if there was anyone else wishing to speak
in favor of Tentative Parcel Map 23381. Receiving no response,
Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn asked if anyone wished
to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Washburn
closed the public hearing at 7:14 p.m.
Commissioner Brown commented on condition number 76, of the
original Conditions of Approval, pertaining to recordation of
irrevocable reciprocal parking, circulation and landscape
maintenance easement. Asked if it would be appropriate to record
this on the face of each map, stating that he would like to see
it recorded on each individual parcel not by separate instrument
but right on the map.
Mr. O'Byrne stated that this would be recorded as an instrument
identifying each parcel.
Commissioner Mellinger stated that they could refer to the
instrument on the map, as a note on the map.
Commissioner Brown stated that as long as it is recorded or
referred to on the map he has no problem.
Chairman Washburn stated that he had the same question as raised
by commissioner Brown.
--
Motion by Commissioner Mellinger to recommend to City Council
approval of Tentative Parcel Map 23381 based on the Findings and
subject to the 3 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff
Report, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
r;~'''''c",,'it.-,':'Y::
Minutes of Planning Commission
April 5, 1988
Page 3
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Commercial Project 87-7 & Conditional Use Permit 87-10
Devenplus Corporation Associate Planner Wilkins presented
revised site plan, rear building elevations and landscaping plans
for a 60-unit, 11,044 square foot, motel complex and a 9,500
-- square foot 8-unit commercial center, located on the northerly
side of Casino Drive (Vista Del Lago) 180 feet west of Railroad
Canyon Road.
Commissioner Mellinger asked if there was going to be an alterna-
tive to the blue awnings.
Associate Planner Wilkins responded that this has been omitted by
staff, since it was not included with the Master Signage Program.
We are recommending that they come back for Commission review for
the Master Signage Program.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve the revised plans for
Commercial Project 87-7 and Conditional Use Permit 87-10 based on
the Findings and the 5 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff
Report, second by Commissioner Mellinger.
Approved 5-0
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
-
Community Development Director Miller stated that as you all know, we
have a City election next Tuesday, April 12th. Our Municipal Code
calls for installation of the new City Council within the week of the
election and consequently the installation of the new City Council
has been scheduled for April 19, 1988, at 7:00 p.m., which coincides
with the Planning Commission Meeting. There will be a brief
reception, outside of the Chamber, after the installation of the new
Council. The Planning Commission meeting is scheduled to start at
approximately 7:30 p.m. on April 19, 1988.
Also, we are continuing to work on the General Plan Land Use Element.
The next meeting of the General Plan Advisory Committee is scheduled
for April 20, 1988, and we will be discussing future meetings and
workshops with the Committee at that time. We have discussed with
the Committee reviewing the City on a sector by sector basis and
anticipate that we will probably have at least 5 to 6 additional
meetings with the Committee. As we progress through this we will be
bringing more information back to the Planning Commission.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Kellev:
Urged everyone to vote on April 12, 1988.
-
Commissioner Brinlev:
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Mellinger:
Asked what can be done about the graffiti showing up allover the
parkway walls.
Community Development Director Miller responded there are a number of
ways to approach that, and we will review this with the Public Works
Department and see if we can take some measures in that regard.
Minutes of Planning Commission
April 5, 1988
Page 4
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
commissioner Brown:
Nothing to report.
Chairman Washburn:
Nothing to report.
There being no further business, the
Commission adjourned at 7:21 p.m. Motion by
second by Commissioner Mellinger.
Approved 5-0
Lake Elsinore
Commissioner
pproved,
11J1bMr-
Washburn,
rman
~~tfullY
~/tt/ ~
Linda Grindstaff ~
Planning Commission
Secretary
-
Planning
Brinley,
-
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
19TH
DAY
OF
APRIL
1988
Commissioner Mellinger, Vice Chairman, conducted the meeting being
as Chairman Washburn was elected to City Council on April 12, 1988.
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:37 P.M.
-
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Brinley.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: Commissioners:
Kelley, Brinley, Brown, and Mellinger
ABSENT: Commissioners:
None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller and Senior
Planner Libiez.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brown to approve minutes of April 5,1988, as
submitted, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Vice Chairman Mellinger asked the Secretary if there were any request
to address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Vice Chairman
Mellinger closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
-
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Tentative Parcel Map 23307 Shores ide Investors/Park Abrams
Development Company - A request to subdivide an existing 1.08
acre commercial site into two parcels containing 0.72 and 0.37
acres respectively, located on the northeast corner of Lakeshore
Drive and Riverside Drive.
Community Development Director Miller presented the applicant's
request to withdraw said application.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to accept the withdrawal from
Park/Abrams, second by Commissioner Brown.
Approved 4-0
2. Tentative Parcel Map 23411 - Aware Development - A request to
divide one existing parcel into eleven parcels varying in size
from 20,000 square feet to 29,100 square feet, located on the
northwest corner of Dexter Avenue and Second Street.
Vice Chairman Mellinger stated that the applicant has requested
that this item be continued to the meeting of May 17, 1988, and
asked if there was anyone in the audience wishing to speak on the
matter. Receiving no response, Vice Chairman Mellinger asked for
a motion to continue said project.
Motion by commissioner Brown
23411 to the meeting of May 17,
Brinley.
Approved 4-0
to continue Tentative Parcel Map
1988, second by commissioner
3. Tentative Parcel Map 23037 - Larmor Development - Senior Planner
Libiez presented a proposal to subdivide ten acres into six
parcels for future development of an industrial/commercial
manufacturing business center, located at the southeast corner of
Central Street and Collier Avenue.
Minutes of Planning Commission
April 19, 1988
Page 2
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23037 - LARMOR DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
senior Planner Libiez stated that the Senior civil Engineer has
requested that condition number 11 be amended to read as follows:
Condition No. 11: "The recordation of the final map shall
include establishment of an 86 foot
right-of-way for Collier Avenue, a 76
foot right-of-way for Central Street __
and incorporation of vacated excess
right-of-way abutting all parcels along
Collier Avenue frontage."
Vice Chairman Mellinger opened the public hearing at 7:41 p.m.,
asking if anyone wished to speak in favor of Tentative Parcel Map
23037.
Mr. Fred Crowe, of Butterfield Surveys, stated that they are in
agreement with the conditions.
Mr. Walt JOhnson, 'representing Larmor Development, stated that
they are in agreement with staff findings; feels that this would
be a good project as far as the recommendations that have been
made, and would answer any questions that arise.
Vice Chairman Mellinger asked if there was anyone else wishing to
speak in favor of Tentative Parcel Map 23037.
Mr. George Alongi, 150 East Lakeshore Drive, stated that he was
not for or against the proposal, and asked if this project, the
circulation, was based on the old General Plan, the new General
Plan or any part of it.
Senior Planner Libiez stated that the circulation and the
right-of-ways that have been agreed to and being assessed against
the map are negotiated with the developer over a period of time,
and will be prescribed when the new General Plan is presented to
the Planning Commission and City Council for future adoption. At
this point the developers have agreed those right-of-ways in
recognition of the need for proper circulation in that area.
Mr. Alongi asked Senior Planner Libiez if this was then based on
the new General Plan, is that what you are saying.
--
Community Development Director Miller stated
right-of-ways are consistent with the existing
well as the new General Plan.
that the
General
proposed
Plan as
A brief discussion ensued on circulation alignments.
Vice Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone else wished to speak for
or against or on tne matter in general. Receiving no response,
Vice Chairman Mellinger closed the public hearing at 7:46 p.m.
vice Chairman Mellinger stated that before discussion at the
table he has a question for staff, asked if these street
alignments were not approved on an earlier project.
-
Senior Planner Libiez stated that conditions of part of the
original industrial project do point out the need for those
alignments and did indicate that the future circulation element
would consider these widths of highways that are being dedicated
to the City.
Motion by Commissioner Brown to recommend to City Council
approval of Tentative Parcel Map 23037 based on the Findings and
subject to the 11 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff
Minutes of Planning Commission
April 19, 1988
Page 3
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23037 - LARMOR DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
-
Report and amending condition number 11, to read as follows:
Condition No. 11: "The recordation of the final map shall
include establishment of an 86 foot
right-of-way for Collier Avenue, a 76
foot right-of-way for Central street
and incorporation of vacated excess
right-of-way abutting all parcels along
Collier Avenue frontage."
Second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
BUSINESS ITEMS
None
INFORMATIONAL
1. Engineering Department Status Update on Planning Commission
Traffic Concerns - Community Development Director Miller stated
that most of the items covered in the update require interaction
with other agencies outside the city. Although, we have been
pursuing those actions we do not have a lot of new information to
report. We have, as pointed out in the memorandum, engaged the
services of a tra~fic engineer who will be consulting to the City
to address more specifically some of these issues that the
Planning Commission had requested information on.
Community Development Director Miller stated that several of the
items have been presented to Cal Trans and the County for
resolution and input. We were advised, yesterday, that the
County Traffic Committee has approved the installation of a
four-way stop at Grand and Machado, and it will probably be done
within the next month.
Community Development Director Miller stated that the Commission
will be kept informed as additional responses are received.
Vice Chairman Mellinger stated that he appreciates the effort and
would like to have another update prepared for the meeting of May
17th.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Kel1ev:
-
Commented on item number 7 of the Traffic and Safety Concerns, asking
when this is expected to be operational.
Community Development Director Miller stated that Ca1 Trans has
working with the adjacent property owner to implement that park
ride facility, and some of the negotiations have taken longer
originally anticipated. We hope that within the next 60 days
will be finalized and proceed to construction.
been
and
than
this
Commissioner Brinlev:
Commented on
stating that
are to be
are posting.
item number 7 of the Traffic and Safety Concerns,
her concern is with the posting, and asked what areas
posted and if you have any idea, at this time, what they
Minutes of Planning commission
April 19, 1988
Page 4
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
Community Development Director Miller stated that we do not have the
precise information from Cal Trans, at this time.
Commented on trucks being prohibited, all the way around, because
when they are parked they block visibility coming off of the freeway.
Community Development Director Miller stated that one of the things __
that we have requested Cal Trans consideration of is prohibition of
all parking in that area with the installation of the park and ride.
commissioner Brown:
Commented on
stating that
appreciated.
item number 8
any continued
of the Traffic and Safety Concerns,
effort on that problem would be
Community Development Director Miller stated that we are in
discussion with Cal Trans about this particular problem.
vice Chairman Mellinqer:
As brought up at the last meeting, would like to see if something can
be done about the graffiti showing up allover the parkway walls.
Community Development Director Miller stated that we
contract for maintenance of that area, which I believe
this week, and we anticipate the contractor will be
week taking corrective action.
have signed a
takes effect
out there this
Commented on the cut slopes of the Buster Alles tract, understands
there is some Minor Design Review and discussion with staff, I do not __
know how the other Commissioners feels, but I think that they should
take another shot at hydroseeding that with maybe a more native mix.
community Development Director stated that Commissioner Washburn has
stepped up to Council, now Councilman Washburn. Perhaps Planning
commission would wish to consider what you would like to do since we
will have two other Commissioners who's term will be expiring in
June. I anticipate that it may be a meeting or two before a new
Commissioner is appointed. Asked if the Commission would wish to
elect a new Chairman or whether you would wish to have Commissioner
Mellinger chair the meetings for the remainder of the term, until the
end of June. Perhaps Commission would wish to consider this and give
direction as to your desires at the next meeting.
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to have Commissioner
the meetings for the remainder of the term, until the
second by commissione~ Brinley.
Approved 4-0
Mellinger chair
end of June,
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore
Commission adjourned at 7:53 p.m. Motion by Commissioner
second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
Planning
Brinley,
--
A'JJI ,II '
{~~dY Me[f1!r.~
Chairman
~u~tted.
L~nda Grindstaff ~
Planning commission
Secretary
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
3RD
DAY
OF
MAY
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:01 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Kelley.
ROLL CALL:
-
PRESENT: Commissioners:
Kelley, Brinley, Brown, and Mellinger
ABSENT:
Commissioners:
None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planner Libiez and Associate Planners Last and Magee.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brown to approve minutes of April 19,1988, as
submitted, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Mellinger asked the Secretary if there were any request to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Mellinger
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
ELECTION OF VICE CHAIRMAN
Chairman Mellinger opened nominations for Vice Chairman.
-
Commissioner Brinley nominated Commissioner Brown as Vice Chairman,
of the Planning Commission, second by Commissioner Kelley. There
being no further nominations, Commissioner Brown was elected Vice
Chairman by a unanimous vote.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Variance 88-4 Frank Ayres & Son Construction Company
Associate Planner Last presented proposal for a variance to allow
a ten-foot (10') setback adjacent to Interstate 15 in lieu of the
required twenty-foot (20') setback. A 2.10 acre site located on
the north side of Collier Avenue between Chaney and Third Street.
Chairman Mellinger opened the public hearing at 7:06 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Variance 88-4
Mr. Bruce Ayres, representing the applicant, stated that he
concurs with the Staff Report and Conditions of Approval, and
presented photographs that depict the site.
Mr. Ayres stated that they are not asking for more building, we
are taking the driveway that is in between the two buildings and
making it wider. It would be difficult for us to keep it land-
scaped back there and keep it maintained.
-- Chairman Mellinger asked Mr. Ayres if they proposed the landscap-
ing behind there, referring to the posted rendering.
Mr. Ayres answered in the negative.
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of Variance 88-4. Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger
asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no
response Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak on
the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger closed the
public hearing at 7:08 p.m.
Commissioner Brown asked if the drainage channel was on the
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 2
VARIANCE 88-4 - FRANK AYRES ~ SON CONSTRUCTION COMPANY CONTINUED
applicant's property line, easement over the property for
drainage, and who maintains this.
Mr. Ayres responded that they maintain this.
Commissioner Brown stated that with the building being immedi-
ately on the drainage channel there is no way to get in there and __
maintain it.
commissioner Brown asked if the freeway right-of-way ends at the
chain link fence, and the actual property line is at the fence.
Mr. Ayres answered in the affirmative.
Commissioner Brown asked about fire protection at the rear of the
building; the length of the existing building, and for the Fire
Department recommendations.
Community Development Director Miller stated that this appears on
the site plan and as referenced in the staff report, discussion
of the actual site plan, we are recommending that the site plan
be continued and brought back to the Planning Commission. One of
the concerns was fire protection and the Fire Department has made
some recommendations in that regard, sprinkling the building or
providing additional access.
Associate Planner Last stated that the Fire Department is
possibly seeking a second access, which we would most likely
recommend, an emergency access to the most northerly end of the
property going to Collier. They did not express any concern with
the rear of the building. The second alternative was sprinkling
the buildings.
....
commissioner Brown asked Community Development Director Miller if
the Commission requested a Code Amendment instead of a Variance
what are we talking time wise?
Community Development Director Miller stated that the earliest
that we could bring back a code amendment, because of the
requirements for advertising, would be a month from now to the
Planning commission and then it would take another five to six
weeks to go to City Council for first and second reading.
commissioner Brown
traditional and they
later on. I would
the code amendment.
stated that this commission has been very
do not like variances, it runs into problems
really like to see this come back as part of
commissioner Brinley stated that she agrees with commissioner
Brown, would rather see a code amendment.
commissioner Brinley asked what staff was referring to on the
architectural treatment, condition number 4,
Associate Planner Last responded either building material
variations, texture changes or possibly paint elements in the --
rear elevations. Basically, this was left open for the applicant
to propose something.
commissioner Brinley stated that she had a concern on drainage,
but this has already been addressed.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he does not have anything over
and above what has already been stated.
Chairman Mellinger stated that, obviously, the site plan that is
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 3
VARIANCE 88-4 = FRANK AYRES ~ SON CONSTRUCTION COMPANY CONTINUED
-
being proposed here reflects the current 'ordinance and not the
request. If we did allow a code amendment, in this particular
instance, due to location there seems to be no need for the
setback because of the berm, however, it seems to be rather
unique to this property, and if we had that code amendment
through the rest we would end up with the same situation. If we
have that ten-foot drainage there is no chance for landscaping
whatsoever, and in my mind this blank wall is not very
attractive, there should be some landscaping out there. If it
were a code amendment, I would suggest either a minimum ten-foot
landscaping or that it could not be approved without at least an
easement from Cal Trans for landscaping.
A brief discussion at the table ensued on the block wall and
landscaping; location of actual property line and the ten-foot
raised berm adjacent to the freeway.
Chairman Mellinger stated that even though he does not like to
put a condition of approval on another building if you, the
applicant, are willing to do that, in writing, I do not have a
problem with that either to paint or stripe that as it is rather
blank looking.
Chairman Mellinger stated that where the berm is, he does not
have a problem with the building going back to the property line,
and that would still require a variance for that.
Chairman Mellinger asked about the visibility of the building
-- from the back of the site.
Associate Planner Last stated that about three-quarters of the
building would be visible, even with the berm there.
Chairman Mellinger stated that he would go along with the setback
where the berm obscures the view of the building.
Mr. Ayres stated that he would prefer to landscape the whole
thing and not fuss around with the redesign, maybe we could go
easy on the groundcover and just plant trees.
Chairman Mellinger stated that the type of landscaping proposed
is not a high maintenance type, and that maybe you would be more
interested in low maintenance trees and maybe a few shrubs, I do
not think that groundcover is all that necessary, this can be
addressed when it comes back.
Chairman Mellinger asked if there were any further comments.
--
commissioner Kelley asked if the landscaping would be part of the
Design Review rather than the Variance.
Chairman Mellinger answered in the affirmative.
Community Development Director Miller stated that Planning
Commission has talked about the possibility of landscaping on the
Cal Trans right-of-way. If the Planning Commission were inclined
to grant the variance, you could add a condition that the
applicant obtain an easement and provide landscaping on the Cal
Trans right-of-way.
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to approve Variance 88-4 based on
the Findings and subject to the 4 Conditions of Approval listed
in the Staff Report and adding condition number 5, which will
read, as follows:
Condition No.5:
"Applicant shall obtain an easement from
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 4
VARIANCE 88-4 - FRANK AYRES ~ SON CONSTRUCTION COMPANY CONTINUED
Cal Trans for landscaping, and provide
landscaping in the right-of-way, which
shall also be subject to the approval of
the Community Development Director."
Associate Planner Last asked if the Commission would like to
have the applicant obtain the easement from Cal Trans prior to __
issuance of Building Permits or certificate of Occupancy.
Chairman Mellinger responded prior to Certificate of Occupancy.
community Development Director Miller suggested that the
Commission word the condition in a sense that the applicant may
use the reduced setback if an easement is obtained for
landscaping in lieu of the setback that would otherwise be
required by code.
Commissioner Kelley amended his motion to include the amendment
to condition number 5, which will read as follows.
Condition No.5:
"The applicant may use the reduced setback
if an easement is obtained from Cal Trans
for landscaping in lieu of the setback that
would otherwise be required by code. Land-
scaping in the right-of-way shall also be
subject to the approval of the Community
Development Director."
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
-
Chairman Mellinger stated that this includes the direction for
the code amendment.
2. Zone Change 88-1 In-N-Out Burger - Associate Planner Magee
presented a proposal to change the present zoning designation
from R-I (HPD): (Single-Family Residential - Hillside Planned
District) to C-2 (General Commercial), in order to allow the
development of a fast food restaurant and to bring the zoning
into conformance with the General Plan, on 0.88 acres on the
southwest corner of Grape Street and Railroad Canyon Road.
Chairman Mellinger opened the public hearing at 7:28 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone Change 88-1.
Mr. Rich Boyd, representing the applicant, stated that he would
answer any questions.
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of Zone Change 88-1. Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger
asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no
response, Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak on
the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger closed the
public hearing at 7:20 p.m.
-
There being no discussion at the table, Chairman Mellinger called
for a motion.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-9 and approval of Zone
Change 88-1 based on the Findings listed in the Staff Report,
second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 5
Chairman Mellinger stated that before we go to the next public
hearing item since the variance was approved, asked if the Commission
has a problem with continuing Industrial Project 88-1, BUSINESS ITEM
NUMBER 1.
-- BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Industrial Project 88-1 - Frank Ayres & Son Construction Company
- A request to allow a 29,734 square foot multi-tenant industrial
complex on 2.3 acres. The site is located on the north side of
Collier Avenue between Chaney street and Third street.
Motion by Commissioner Brown to continue Industrial Project 88-1
to June 7, 1988, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
PUBLIC HEARINGS CONTINUED
IT WAS THE CONSENSUS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO CONSIDER PUBLIC
HEARING NUMBER 3 AND BUSINESS ITEM NUMBER 2 CONCURRENTLY.
Conditional Use Permit 88-4 and Commercial Project 88-5 - Leo A.
Laure/Rich Boyd - Associate Planner Magee presented proposal for
a Conditional Use Permit to allow a drive-thru aisle and an
outside dining area in conjunction with the construction of a
2,671 square foot fast food restaurant, on 0.88 acres located on
the southwest corner of Grape Street and Railroad Canyon Road.
--
Associate Planner Magee requested that condition number 5 be
added to Conditional Use Permit 88-4 and condition number lIon
Commercial Project 88-5 be amended to read, as follows:
Condition No.5: "Applicant shall provide a ten-foot (10')
wide landscape buffer between the south
property line and the drive-thru aisle."
Condition No. 11: "All planting areas shall have permanent
and automatic sprinkler systems with 100
percent watering coverage. These areas
shall be separated from paved areas with a
six-inch (6") high concrete curb. Planting
within fifteen-feet (15') of the point of
intersection shall be no higher than
thirty-six inches (36"). The Landscape
Plan shall incorporate additional vertical
landscape elements against blank wall
expanses, especially against the trash
enclosure and on Elevations "A" and "0"."
Chairman Mellinger opened the public hearing at 7:32 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Conditional Use Permit 88-4
and Commercial Project 88-5.
Mr. Rich Boyd, representing the applicant, stated that they do
-- not have a problem with the median in the street on Grape Street,
because we feel that we really need that access, right turn only
on the first driveway.
Mr. Boyd questioned condition number 3 on Commercial Project
88-5, pertaining to the brick band wrapping around the entire
building and being of a contrasting color.
Associate Planner Magee stated that what staff was looking for,
if I can direct your attention to the patio area, there is a
brick treatment across the three-foot high wall, and what we were
looking at was extending that treatment, that color and theme
across the length of the building.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 6
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-4 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-5 - IN-N-OUT
BURGER CONTINUED
Mr. Boyd asked if this was to be in that particular type of
stone, block, or paint.
Associate Planner Magee stated that paint would be acceptable,
what we were looking for was a contrasting color, and we were
leaving it open for the applicant to decide which would be best. __
Discussion ensued on condition number 3, pertaining to the
contrasting color.
Chairman Mellinger asked Community Development Director Miller if
he could point out, using the site plan, where the landscaping
would be along that elevation, and asked if it would be where the
Evergreen Pear Trees are located.
Community Development Director Miller referred to the site plan
posted and pointed out the location of the landscaping.
Chairman Mellinger stated that this is a planter area so wouldn't
the landscaping trees and tall shrubs do the same thing?
community Development Director Miller stated that if you look at
the landscaping plan you will note, as indicated those are
Evergreen Pear, you probably will have a tree that is first of
all deciduous and secondly that will form a canopy, probably five
to six feet off the ground. We have suggested in the conditions
that additional vertical landscape elements be added to that
elevation.
Mr. Boyd commented on the added condition number 5, to __
Conditional Use Permit 88-4, stating that they do not have a
problem with this. But, right now we have thirty-nine parking
stalls and we are only required to have thirty, utilizing the
rendering posted, stated that they may have to delete a parking
space to continue the finger so that we have enough width for the
landscaping.
Chairman Mellinger stated that they would have to meet the
minimum requirements for parking.
Associate Planner Magee stated that with the outside dining area
they are at the minimum parking requirements.
Chairman Mellinger asked if there was anyone else wishing to
speak in favor of Conditional Use Permit 88-4 and Commercial
Project 88-5. Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger asked if
anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no response,
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter.
Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger closed the public
hearing at 7:40 p.m.
Commissioner Brown stated that he likes the idea of having the
contrasting color around the entire building.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she likes the idea of having the __
contrasting color around the entire building.
Commissioner Kelley stated that the contrasting color does not
matter, he could go either way. Happy that the applicant has
decided to go with the median, thinks that this will be an
enhancement, and with the addition of condition number 5,
providing the ten-foot landscape buffer for the drive-up.
Chairman Mellinger recommended that the Ficus Nitida be replaced
with some other cross tolerance variety.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 7
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-4 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-5 - IN-N-OUT
BURGER CONTINUED
,.....
Chairman Mellinger commented on the landscape plan, the Evergreen
Pears, shows 15 and 24 is this a fifty-fifty mix.
Mr. Leo Laure, architect for the project, stated that they
submitted a preliminary landscaping plan for the proposal which
pretty much spelled out the type of plants and shrubbery that is
being used on the site.
Chairman Mellinger asked Mr. Laure if he had a problem with
replacing the Ficus, and the Evergreen Pear, it says 15 gallon 24
inch box, is this half and half?
Mr. Laure responded that he has no problem with replacing the
Ficus Nitida, and it would be an upgrade on the 15 gallon 24 inch
box Evergreen Pear trees.
-
Motion by Chairman Mellinger to adopt Negative Declaration No.
88-9 and approve Conditional Use Permit 88-4 based on the
Findings and subject to the 4 Conditions of Approval listed in
the Staff Report with the addition of condition number 5;
recommend to City Council adoption of Negative Declaration No.
88-9 and approval of Commercial Project 88-5 based on the
Findings and subject to the 40 Conditions of Approval listed in
the Staff Report and the following amendments:
Condition No.5: "Applicant shall provide a ten-foot (10')
wide landscape buffer between the south
property line and the drive-thru aisle."
Condition No. 11: "All planting areas shall have permanent
and automatic sprinkler systems with 100
percent watering coverage. These areas
shall be separated from paved areas with a
six-inch (6") high concrete curb. Planting
within fifteen-feet (15') of the point of
intersection shall be no higher than
thirty-six inches (36"). The Landscape
Plan shall incorporate additional vertical
landscape elements against blank wall
expanses, especially against the trash
enclosure and on Elevations "A" and "D"."
Condition No. 36: "Southerly driveway on Grape Street is to
be deleted unless condition number 37 is
met. Delete condition as applicant has
agreed to design and install landscape
median on Grape Street."
-
Condition No. 41: "The Ficus Nitida shall be replaced with
some other cross tolerance variety. The
Evergreen Pears, illustrated on the land-
scape plan as 15 gallon and 24 inch box
shall be a fifty-fifty mix."
Second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
IT WAS THE CONSENSUS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO CONSIDER PUBLIC
HEARING NUMBER 4 AND BUSINESS ITEM NUMBER 3 CONCURRENTLY.
Conditional Use Permit 88-3 and Commercial Project 88-4 - George
Smyrniotis - Associate Planner Magee presented proposal for a
Conditional Use Permit to allow a drive-thru aisle in conjunction
with the construction of a 2,157 square foot fast food
~
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 8
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-3 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-4 - GEORGE
SMYRNIOTIS CONTINUED
restaurant 0.50 acre site located on the east side of Lakeshore
, . . .
Drive approximately 161 feet north of R1vers1de Dr1ve.
Associate Planner Magee requested that condition number 14 on
Commercial Project 88-4 be amended to read, as follows:
Condition No. 14: "All planting areas shall have permanent
and automatic sprinkler systems with 100
percent watering coverage. These areas
shall be separated from paved areas with a
six-inch (6") high concrete curb. Planting
within fifteen-feet (15') of the point of
intersection shall be no higher than
thirty-six inches (36")."
Chairman Mellinger commented on the mention of no outdoor seat-
ing, so it is not part of the application, and asked if there was
outdoor seating indicated.
Associate Planner Magee responded that there is no outdoor seat-
ing. However, if they were to apply for or add more in the
future the current parking code would not allow that as they do
not have enough parking.
...
Commissioner Kelley asked how the stacking was formulated?
Associate Planner Magee stated that the code requires an eight
(8) car stacking to be measured at twenty-foot (20') lengths, so
we are designating each vehicle taking up twenty-feet (20').
....
Commissioner Kelley asked if this was the minimum.
Associate Planner Magee responded in the affirmative.
Chairman Mellinger opened the public hearing at 7:48 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Conditional Use Permit 88-3
and Commercial Project 88-4.
Mr. Lloyd Roybal, representing the applicant, commented on condi-
tion number 22.a, pertaining to the cornice around the fascia
board of the building itself and the color, stating that they
have no objection to changing the color, and have no problem with
the cornice to match the top portion of the building.
Mr. Roybal commented on condition number 22.b, pertaining to the
wood post plant-ons in exchange for the angular bulkhead type
configuration on the side of the building, stating that they have
no problem with putting a turned post, perhaps painted white, and
will work with staff to make this architectural change.
Mr. Roybal stated that they have no problem with condition number
22.c, pertaining to the window treatments, stating that they have
no problem with bordering those, perhaps we can come up with a
nice design with staff as well to accommodate that.
....
Mr. Roybal commented on berming the side property
the Chevron Station, we do not have a problem with
and as far as the size of trees and specifying 15
that we could probably work out that situation.
Chairman Mellinger asked staff if they were requesting that the
side property line between the Chevron Station be bermed.
line adjoining
that either,
gallon I think
Associate Planner Magee responded in the negative, staff is
requesting the berm at the front, the Lakeshore Drive elevation.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 9
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-3 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-4 - GEORGE
SMYRNIOTIS CONTINUED
~
Mr. Roybal stated that they have a five-foot mound at the corner,
where it projects from the ingress/egress area, you will see
where we have put a forty-foot (40') setback for our landscape
area in that street frontage and that was in order to accommodate
the amount of traffic that perhaps could stack up coming off of
Lakeshore Drive. We have incorporated a five-foot (5') berm
there, however, if it is necessary to bring that down to three-
foot (3'), according to the code, then that would be no problem.
Associate Planner Magee stated that on the property line between
the Chevron Station and this project there is proposed to be a
block wall.
Commissioner Brinley asked how high this block wall would be?
Associate Planner Magee stated that he believes that the block
wall would be four-feet-eight-inches (4' 8"), and that would be a
decorative slumpstone wall with a brick cap across the top, as
recommended in the conditions.
Chairman Mellinger commented on the landscaping, stating that if
they were using citrus trees there might be a frost problem.
~
Mr. Roybal responded that the owner is aware of the fact that we
have put citrus trees, as a matter of fact, it was Mr.
Smyrniotis's suggestion as he does not like to see any of the
land go to waste, and so producing a citrus tree here probably
could help his business as well. I'm sure in an interest to get
the maximum productivity of his particular piece of land here if
there was a tree that perhaps was destroyed by frost he would see
to it that it would get replaced immediately.
Chairman Mellinger stated that the initial size of all the trees
was not mentioned.
~
Mr. Roybal stated that being the building designer he was not
real familiar with the landscaping plan.
Associate Planner Magee stated that staff is recommending that
the landscaping plan come back. We could address this now if the
Commission wanted to make some recommendations as to the size or
type, and add the recommendations to the conditions of approval,
so that before issuance of building permits we have an approved
landscape plan that simulates what the Commission wants.
Community Development Director Miller stated that the minimum
size that we specify for all trees is 15 gallon.
Chairman Mellinger stated that on the front area at least we did
have a landscape plan for the adjoining property, and I am just
wondering if it should be somewhat similar. We had certain types
of trees and this is so close to it that you would think that the
same type of trees might look a little nicer.
Mr. Roybal stated that, you might notice, on the landscape plan
we had suggested a number of trees that are taken from the
suggested Street Tree List. However, we would like to conform to
the neighboring property, I understand that Del Taco will be
neighboring us.
Chairman Mellinger stated that as he recalls they extended Crepe
Myrtles down from the Stater Brother's project, just for the berm
area.
Mr. Roybal stated that they would have no problem with that.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 10
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-3 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-4 - GEORGE
SMYRNIOTIS CONTINUED
A brief discussion at the table ensued on whether or not the
landscaping plan should come back to the commission.
Chairman Mellinger asked if the boxes would contain citrus trees.
community Development Director Miller referred to Exhibit "0", __
stating that staff is suggesting that a lot of the concrete area
be removed from this and it be devoted to landscaping, with that
change would suggest that those box trees be removed and actually
planted in the landscaping. Would further suggest that a citrus
tree is an inappropriate choice of tree for these types of areas
because of its frost sensitivity, growth pattern and size.
Mr. Roybal stated that Mr. Smyrniotis received a letter dealing
with the signage and trash enclosure location, and asked if there
was anything that we should discuss about this now.
Associate Planner Magee referred to Exhibit "0", stating that
staff has suggested relocation of the trash enclosure. Its
present location would be in the furthest corner of the site
directly opposite the drive-thru aisle, staff suggests that this
be relocated to the other side of the drive-aisle, this is
covered in the conditions of approval. You would also be able to
add some landscape buffers and still not loose a parking space.
Commissioner Brinley asked how the trash enclosures were being
enclosed.
Associate Planner Magee responded that the trash enclosures would
be of a slumpstone block treatment, and it would also provide for
pedestrian access from the sidewalk area in the back of the
building. In front of the trash enclosure, where the disposal
company would pick-up, would be a metal door and it would be
painted to match the slumpstone.
-
Mr. Roybal stated that their prime concern with the location of
the trash container is that for a food service facility, even
though it would be handy location for the employees right off the
back of the building, we feel that the placement of this
particular trash bin too close to the building would actually
detract from the desirability of the establishment itself.
Adding to that, the Chevron station also has a trash bin in the
same general area, I think that we are only 10-20 feet apart from
them. We felt that this would be the best location for the trash
bin.
Associate Planner Magee stated that the trash bin at the Chevron
Station was partially shielded by the 4' 8" block wall, and by
relocating the trash enclosure, as shown in Exhibit "0", we would
be able to add a landscape buffer to soften the effect and
basically give a better presentation. Whereas, the applicant has
proposed no landscape buffer and would not be able to furnish one
in that area due to the size requirements.
Mr. Roybal stated that he probably would not have a problem with __
this, but would like to discuss it with the applicant and work
with staff.
Mr. Roybal stated that the signage was another issue on the side
of the building into the roofline itself.
Community Development Director Miller stated that Mr. Roy~al was
referring to condition number 23, pertaining to cut-outs 1n the
roof to be eliminated so that the roof planes are continuous.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 11
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-3 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-4 - GEORGE
SMYRNIOTIS CONTINUED
~
Associate Planner Magee stated that staff's intent was to
continue the roof line, and signage could be addressed at another
time. We did not feel that size, that area, and the deletion of
that roof plane was necessary.
Chairman Mellinger stated that he presumes that there is a pole
sign/monument sign available.
Community Development Director Miller stated that the frontage of
lot would permit a monument sign. Also, we would suggest that
signage be more appropriately located on the wall expanses
similar to the In-N-Out proposal, and Del Taco proposed a sign on
the wall rather than in the roof plane.
Mr. Roybal stated that in as much as the code recommends a
varying roof line, and a roof line that has various levels this
would have been a nice architectural feature.
Chairman Mellinger asked if there was anyone else wishing to
speak in favor of Conditional Use Permit 88-3 and Commercial
Project 88-4. Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger asked if
anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no response,
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter.
Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger closed the public
hearing at 8:04 p.m.
~
Commissioner Kelley stated that he would like to commend staff,
thinks that they have adequately covered just about every
concern. with the signs I agree with staff, I think that the
roof line is adequately broken up with the smoke stack and the
flag.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she agrees with everything that
staff has listed here, and likes the roof the way it insets and
the signs sets out.
Commissioner Brown asked if the insets would fit in with our
design criteria, would their signage fit in that area, are they
allowed to have much.
Associate Planner Magee stated that condition number 11, would
require that a Master Signage Program be developed for the
center.
Commissioner Brown stated that he agrees, but would the total
signage, that they would be allowed to have, fill up those areas
or would those areas be greater than signage?
Associate Planner Magee stated that he believes it would be in
excess.
-- Commissioner Brown stated that along with Commissioner Brinley he
likes the insets. Likes the concept where you do not have a sign
sticking up above the roof.
Community Development Director Miller stated that the code would
not allow a sign to project above the roof plane. What we would
suggest and it would probably be more appropriate, more appeal-
ing, to put the sign on the wall, such as you see on the In-N-Out
proposal and similar to Del Taco.
A brief discussion at the table ensued on insets in the roof and
signage for the proposal.
Mr. Roybal stated that they do have not have a concept for the
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 12
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-3 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-4 - GEORGE
SMYRNIOTIS CONTINUED
signage itself, only provided a space for the
course, comply with the code requirements
signage space required or allowed, but we are
use the entire area.
sign.
for
not
We would, of
the amount of
intending to
Chairman Mellinger stated that just looking at the signs, thinks __
that it detracts from the roof. On the Master Sign Program would
suggest that you come back with individual channelized letters,
stating that with this style it would work better. Asked Mr.
Roybal if they had intended on a canned sign or individual
channelized letters, similar to Park Abrams.
Mr. Roybal stated that they wanted to try and stay with the Park
Abrams theme. However, this is something that we still have to
work out with the applicant.
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to adopt Negative Declaration No.
88-8 and approve Conditional Use Permit 88-3 based on the
Findings and subject to the 3 Conditions of Approval listed in
the Staff Report, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to recommend to
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-8 and approve
Project 88-4 based on the Findings and SUbject
Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report
following amendments:
City Council
Commercial
to the 44
with the
Condition No. 13: "Completely revised Landscape and
Irrigation Plans prepared by a Landscape
Architect shall be submitted which will
address the revisions as illustrated in
Exhibit "D" and described in the staff
report; said plans shall be subject to the
review and approval of the Community
Development Director or his designee, and
shall incorporate the following:
a) Compatible and appropriate landscape
materials, extending Crepe Myrtle
along the parkway planting area, and
deleting all fruit trees.
-
b) Mounding and shrubs to provide
screening of drive-through lane.
c)
Additional vertical
elements against blank wall
and trash enclosures."
landscape
expanses
Condition No. 14: "All planting areas shall have permanent
and automatic sprinkler systems with 100
percent watering coverage. These areas
shall be separated from paved areas with a
six-inch (6") high concrete curb. Planting -
within fifteen-feet (15') of the point of
intersection shall be no higher than
thirty-six inches (36")."
Second by commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
5. Conditional Use Permit 86-7 T & S Development - Associate
Planner Last presented request for a six month (6) extension of
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 13
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 86-7 - ~ k Q DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
Conditional Use Permit 86-7 for the temporary leasing signs,
located on the west side of Mission Trail between Campbell and
Sylvester Street.
~
Associate Planner Last stated that Mr. John Curts, of T & S
Development, had a conflict and could not attend tonight's
meeting, and wished to comment that he prefers to have the two
signs for the six months; feels that would be adequate for the
center as far as their leasing program.
Chairman Mellinger opened the public hearing at 8:14 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Conditional Use Permit
86-7. Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone
wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no response, Chairman
Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter.
Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger closed the public
hearing at 8:14 p.m.
Commissioner Brown stated that he would like to see this revert
to one sign.
~
Commissioner Brown stated that the Conditional Use Permit is good
for one year, irrespective of when the permit is taken out,
correct. So these signs are already way past their Conditional
Use Permit time and they should have applied for an extension
five months ago. We have a conflict between when it is approved
and when it is permitted.
Community Development Director Miller stated that there was quite
a bit of discussion at the time this was originally approved, and
we believed that it was the intent of the Planning Commission to
allow the applicant to have his signs up for one year. In terms
of how long that extends it really is at the discretion of the
City, in this case the Planning Commission, in granting the
approval as to whether they are allowed the use for one year or
they have a year to exercise the Conditional Use Permit. The
code would normally specify that you have a year to exercise a
Conditional Use Permit. But, once it commences operation, in
most cases, a Conditional Use Permit is granted without a time
limitation.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she agrees, it should only be
six months, and they only need one sign as it appears that their
buildings are over half occupied.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he concurs with staff findings.
Chairman Mellinger stated that as he recalls the Conditional Use
Permit was from the date of the approval.
~
Associate Planner Last stated that this was an error by staff,
typically leasing signs are issued for one year period.
Chairman Mellinger stated that our discussion here is that it is
going to be one year from when we approve the Conditional Use
Permit.
Chairman Mellinger suggested that condition number 1 be amended
to state that the effective date of expiration, shall be October
14, 1988, no extensions.
Motion by Chairman Mellinger to approve the six (6) month
extension of Conditional Use Permit 86-7 for one (1) sign, with
condition number 1 amended to read, as follows:
Condition No.1: "Granting of this extension for Conditional
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 14
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 86-7 - ~ i ~ DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
Use Permit 86-7
month period.
expiration, shall
extensions.
shall
The
be
be for a six (6)
effective date of
October 14, 1988, no
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
~
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Industrial Project 88-1 - Frank Ayres & Son Construction Company
- Considered and acted on after PUBLIC HEARING NUMBER 2.
2. Commercial Project 88-5 - Leo A. Laure/Rich Boyd - Considered and
approved with PUBLIC HEARING NUMBER 3.
3. Commercial Project 88-4 George Smyrniotis - Considered and
approved with PUBLIC HEARING NUMBER 4.
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Community Development Director Miller stated that he had nothing to
report.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
commissioner Brown:
Requested that the new Council look at the off ramps at Railroad
Canyon and the freeway, especially in light of the project that we
approved tonight, does not think that the signal at Grape Street will
really address that issue. Thinks that the signal at Grape Street
will compound that problem, and asked if we have any recent traffic
studies or information on those intersections.
....
Community Development Director Miller stated that the city and County
are jointly involved in an effort to plan and fund improvements to
Railroad Canyon Road, Newport Road corridor extending from I-15 to
I-215. Part of those studies and discussions, particularly in the
City's standpoint, are improvements at the interchange at Railroad
Canyon Road and I-15. We are currently engaged in a study for the
entire length of Railroad Canyon Road from the freeway to the City
Limits with an engineering firm, and part of our discussions include
consideration of traffic signal control at the interchange and the
funding of those.
Commissioner Brinley:
Asked for the status on the Arco sign, at the old Arco station.
Senior Planner Libiez stated that we have taken steps to ask them to
remove it again, and we are going to cite them. They are in the
process and have presented to us a new freeway sign that would be __
behind the area where Bob's Big Boy and Sizzler is now on a special
easement.
Community Development Director Miller stated that we had previously
initiated legal action against Arco. They have obtained permits to
demolish that and had previously indicated to us that they intended
to do that. We have not followed through on that commitment and as
Mr. Libiez indicates, once again we are about to initiate legal
proceedings against them to have the sign removed.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 3, 1988
Page 15
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
Commissioner Brinley stated that she feels that the City has been
more than patient with them, this was discussed last summer. I think
it is time that the sign come down.
-
Commissioner Brinley commented on the landscaping at Shopper's
Square, in the front of the businesses, everything there is dying or
dead. We make them put in landscaping but we do not enforce mainte-
nance.
Commissioner Kellev:
Nothing to report.
Chairman Mellinqer:
Commented on the landscaping through out the City, stating that we
have had a bad year, a bad winter with the frost, and thinks that the
danger has past. Thinks there are many developments that have
suffered some damage and thinks it is about time they received a
notice to replace those damaged trees.
Asked for the status on the Adams sign, billboards.
Community Development Director Miller stated we are continuing with
the civil suit against Adams to effect removal of those signs. We
are also pursuing criminal action against them, and there is a trial
scheduled for criminal court, I believe, the first of next month for
a number of violations that have been issued to them.
-
Chairman Mellinger stated that he would like to thank everyone
involved for the three-way stop at Collier and Riverside.
Chairman Mellinger commented on the Premier/Citation tract, stating
that he called in a concern about the drainage and street situation
out there. There is a curb preventing any water going into the storm
drains, which leads to no where any way, the water is running out
into the middle of the street, and the pot holes are extremely large.
At this point, I would just as soon hold up any permits, in fact, I
would red tag that entire tract until that is resolved. I would like
to see the street fixed before they proceed with any other activity
on that site.
Chairman Mellinger requested that staff review the Truss Company,
between I-IS near Collier and Riverside, for compliance of conditions
of approval. They promised that they would screen everything with
landscaping and walls; in effect, what they have done is truss
advertising with a three tiered truss sign.
There being no further
adjourned at 8:29 p.m.
Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
business the Lake Elsinore Planning Commission
Motion by Commissioner Brinley, second by
-
Approved,
/lJ./?~
Randy Mellinger
Chairman
;;:::~tted'
Linda Grindstaff ~
Planning Commission
Secretary
-
-
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
17TH
DAY
OF
MAY
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Senior Planner Libiez.
ROLL CALL:
-
PRESENT: Commissioners:
Kelley, Brinley, Brown, and Mellinger
ABSENT:
Commissioners:
None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planner Libiez and Associate Planners Last, Magee and wilkins.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brown to approve minutes of May 3,1988, as
submitted, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
INTRODUCTION
Community Development Director Miller introduced Paul Merrett the
City's new Assistant Planner.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Mellinger asked the Secretary if there were any request to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Mellinger
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Tentative Parcel Map 23411 - Aware Development - A request to
divide one (1) existing parcel into several smaller lots with a
minimum lot size of 20,000 square feet, 6.25 acres located on the
northwest corner of Dexter Avenue and Second Street.
Chairman Mellinger stated that we have a request to continue this
item, and asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter.
Receiving no response Chairman Mellinger asked for a motion to
continue Tentative Parcel Map 23411.
Commissioner Brown commented on the applicant's request
continuance to June 7, 1988, and staff's request for
indefinite continuance, asking if this is because we believe
we can not address the issues in that amount of time.
for
an
that
Community Development Director Miller stated that this is part of
it; we have indicated to the applicant that we needed responses
to some of the concerns within a certain time frame and those
have not been received.
Motion by Commissioner Brown to continue Tentative Parcel Map
23411 indefinitely, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
2. Zone Code Amendment 88-5 Industrial Concepts I - Associate
Planner Last presented a request to amend the text of the C-M
(Commercial-Manufacturing) Zoning District to allow churches as
conditional uses, subject to obtaining a Conditional Use Permit.
If approved, this would apply city-wide.
Chairman Mellinger opened the public hearing at 7:05 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone Code Amendment 88-5.
Mr. Steve Brown, representing Industrial Concepts, stated that
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 2
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-5 - INDUSTRIAL CONCEPTS ~ CONTINUED
they were in favor of the zone code amendment to allow speific-
ally the use of the Lutheran Church. We think that the Chaney
Street Center is an excellent site for this. Some of the
objections that staff ~aised in the sta~f report conc7rning
odors, noise and issues 11ke that I do not th1nk are appl1cable
in this case.
Mr. Brown stated that some of the uses, within the C-M Zoning
District, might be a little too strict, and maybe there should be
some changes made to the zoning code to allow more of this type
of use in the center.
~
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone at the table had specific
questions for Mr. Brown.
Chairman Mellinger stated that you were talking about conflict of
parking and hours of operation; and asked Mr. Brown if he would
be willing to place deed restrictions on the rest of the center
to make sure that there would be no conflict in the hours of
operation. In other words, the other uses could not operate
while the church was in session, because this would be the
obvious conflict.
Mr. Brown responded that they could certainly explore this, and
he would have to discuss this issue with Mr. Art Nelson.
commissioner Kelley asked Mr. Brown, in your opinion, what are
the problems with the Commercial-Manufacturing Zones, are they
hard to rent?
Mr. Brown stated that initially we looked at the Commercial- __
Manufacturing Zone as a zone that was similar in nature to the
County's MCS Zone. The County's MCS Zone is much more expansive
in terms of uses that are allowed. We have not been very
successful in leasing that center.
commissioner Kelley asked what he would attribute that to.
Mr. Brown stated that he would attribute that partially to strict
requirements on what users are in there.
commissioner Brinley asked Mr. Brown if they did not foresee some
of these possibilities when they were presenting/planning the
project before it was built.
Mr. Brown asked which possibilities.
Commissioner Brinley stated you would not be able to rent them;
there is no visibility.
Mr. Brown stated that visibility is not the key.
Commissioner Brinley asked Mr. Brown how long the center has been
open?
Mr. Brown responded since September, 1987.
....
commissioner Brinley commented on the center only being open for
approximately eight (8) months, and whether or not it had been
given sufficient time for commercial-manufacturing users, before
renting it out to other uses.
Commissioner Brinley commented the center being built for
commercial-manufacturing uses which would generate tax revenues
for the city and churches being non-profit, no tax revenues.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 3
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-5 - INDUSTRIAL CONCEPTS I CONTINUED
Commissioner Brown commented on the County's MCS Zoning, stating
the type of building that was put up in the MCS Zone, for
industrial uses, and later allowed for other types of uses has
caused nothing but conflicts in traffic patterns and conflicts
between tenants, especially because of ingress/egress problems.
Commissioner Brown stated that he has no problem with the zone
code amendment as long as the building was built for offices and
industrial architectural blends. But what you have now is a
building that was set up for manufacturing and now you want to
make it into something else.
Commissioner Brown suggested a zone change amendment to change
the new building. Phase two, to be a blended use; half offices
and the rest manufacturing.
Chairman Mellinger asked if there was anyone else wishing to
speak on Zone Code Amendment 88-5.
Don Butenshon, Senior Pastor, Shepherd of Life Lutheran Church,
stated that this is a temporary request. We will probably be
signing a lease, if we are granted this, with Art Nelson that
would reflect about eighteen (18) months. We would hope, if
granted, that the City would take a look at our Conditional Use
Permit after one (1) year to see, if by chance, we have been a
nuisance. If by chance, we have kept anyone out in that
commercial center that otherwise would not have a space.
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of this item. Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger asked if
anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no response,
Chairman Mellinger closed the public hearing at 7:22 p.m.
Chairman Mellinger asked for discussion at the table.
Commissioner Brinley stated that when Warm Springs was brought
before the Planning Commission, it was brought as a commercial-
manufacturing project. I feel that if we start allowing churches
and other other things in there we are going to loose what the
project was meant for, and I do not feel that eight (8) months
is sufficient time to give it a chance.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he feels a Conditional Use
Permit, in this instance, would be beneficial to the community
and to the church, and on a temporary basis would be in
agreement. The problem is, as our community grows, we have to
have a place for the churches to grow with us--we have to address
this. If this is denied, I would like to see a joint study
session to determine where they can locate, and maybe help them.
Chairman Mellinger stated that he was in support of the request,
however, not ready to recommend approval at this time. My
-- concerns were expressed when there was a request for a zone code
amendment for industrial uses for churches, I am completely
opposed to that because of the safety factor.
Chairman Mellinger stated that he does not think that it should
just be added to the list as a conditional use permit. There is
certain criteria that should be worked into the ordinance itself,
similar to what we do in the animal veterinary clinics, and
recommended the following criteria: to be brought back before
the Planning Commission for review after one (1) year; there
should be a minimum distance of the actual church facility from
the M-l or M-2 Zone; there should be a maximum number of years (3
or 4 years) without any extensions; hours of operation, the
property owner should agree to deed restrictions on the remainder
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 4
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-5 - INDUSTRIAL CONCEPTS I CONTINUED
of the complex to insure that there is no conflicts, and the deed
restriction should make sure that there is adequate parking;
compatibility; there should be a minimum distance between the
number of Conditional Use Permits that are approved, to avoid a
certain proliferation.
Chairman Mellinger stated that he believes that the comments on __
the economic impact are valid in the long run. However, if we do
adopt this zone code amendment, the vacancy rate should be looked
at, not only within the C-M Zone, but also within other
commercial zones.
Chairman Mellinger stated that he would strongly recommend that
the Commission continue this item, so staff can look at these and
perhaps draft up an ordinance with these criteria and any other
that you may want to add.
Motion by Commissioner Brown to continue Zone Code Amendment 88-5
to study, since it is not a Conditional Use Permit request,
second by Commissioner Kelley.
Chairman Mellinger asked if the Commission wished to continue
Zone Code Amendment 88-5 to a certain date, therefore we would
not have to renotice it.
commissioner Brown stated that it would depend on whether or not
we could get a joint study session with City Council.
Chairman Mellinger suggested that Zone Code Amendment 88-5 be
continued for two meetings.
Community Development Director Miller stated that he would point
out for the Commission's benefit that the applicant has already
filed for a Conditional Use Permit, with the expectation that
there would be a favorable action by the Planning Commission and
City Council.
....
Discussion at the table ensued on recourse the applicant has if
the application were denied tonight; if staff would be
comfortable with the recommendation with some of the criteria
that was mentioned.
commissioner Brown withdrew his motion and Commissioner Kelley
withdrew his second.
Motion by Chairman Mellinger to continue Zone Code Amendment 88-5
to June 7, 1988, with the criteria mentioned, second by Commis-
sioner Brown.
Approved 4-0
3. Conditional Use Permit 84-5 REVISED - Lake Elsinore Chamber of
Commerce - Associate Planner Last presented the applicant's
request for Planning Commission review of Conditional Use Permit
84-5 REVISED, bi-weekly rodeo events, 9.05 acres located on
Franklin Street.
--
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak in favor of
Conditional Use Permit 84-5 REVISED.
Mr. Dave vik stated that he runs the rodeo grounds for the
Chamber of Commerce. We have always had a problem with the
caretaker's quarters not being allowed. with all of the
equipment and things that we have at the rodeo grounds it is just
about an impossibility to leave that stuff alone. We have had
several break-ins, minor losses 300-500 dollars. We have had a
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 5
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 84-5 REVISED - LAKE ELSINORE CHAMBER OF
COMMERCE CONTINUED
~
man up there in a, self-contained, travel trailer and he goes to
work everyday and comes home at night, it is temporary facility.
Chairman Mellinger stated that the previous minutes indicated
that the travel trailer could not be inhabited, is your request
to have someone live in the trailer.
Mr. Vik stated that it is a small travel trailer that people will
hook-up to their car and move around or pull on the highway that
they do stay in.
Chairman Mellinger stated that in the previous minutes Mr.
Starkey indicated that no one could actually live in that trailer
it was similar to a construction RV almost.
Mr. vik stated that this was the other trailer that we have a
temporary moratorium on until June and then it will go, leave the
premises.
Chairman Mellinger asked Mr. vik for the length of their request.
Mr. Vik stated that their lease expires in July, 1989, so after
that it would have to be somewhere else and we will go through
the same procedure. Crime is a problem in the area as it is kind
of remote.
.....
Commissioner Brinley asked Mr. Vik when the thefts occurred if
they were more in the evening or daylight hours, and what time
they leave the grounds.
Mr. vik responded that most of them have been in the daylight
hours. When the horse shows are there we will leave at 4 or 5 in
the evening. During the week, the guy goes to work in the
morning and comes back home around 4 or 5. There is really no
way of putting our finger on it, because it might be 2 or 3 days
before some of us go back up there and discover what has happened.
Commissioner Brinley stated that as she understands it, you are
requesting 24 hours around the clock, seven days a week, for a
caretaker/security guard to live in.
Mr. Vik answered in the affirmative.
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of Conditional Use Permit 849-5 REVISED. Receiving no response,
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger closed the public
hearing at 7:39 p.m.
Commissioner Kelley asked Mr. vik if all of the discrepancies
listed by staff have been resolved.
Mr. vik answered in the affirmative.
Commissioner Brinley asked staff what they were talking about
when they referred to uncontrolled dogs.
Chairman Mellinger stated that he presumes the dogs were loose.
Community Development Director Miller stated that we do have a
leash law in the City, and apparently the person who was living
in the travel trailer had two dogs that were not pinned or kept
on a leash, just roamed the premises.
Mr. vik stated that the premises are entirely fenced, I do not
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 6
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 84-5 REVISED - LAKE ELSINORE CHAMBER OF
COMMERCE CONTINUED
think that they were outside of the fence, but they could have
gotten out one day or something.
Chairman Mellinger stated that it is important, if there are dogs
on the premises that they do remain fenced.
Commissioner Brown commented on condition number 8, stating that
the minutes reflect that the conditional use permit will expire
one year from the date of approval; nothing about annual review,
is this where the conflict exists. The conditions as retyped
added annual review whereas the condition in the minutes of the
original approval did not discuss annual review.
Chairman Mellinger stated that he believes that condition number
2 would takes care of this.
....
Community Development Director Miller stated the original condi-
tion had indicated annual review. I think the actual discussion,
at the time of the hearing, was to change it from three years to
one year.
commissioner Brown asked if staff would have any problem with
extending it to July of 1989, with a one year review. I know
that they asked for six months, is this because of the violations
in the past.
community Development Director Miller answered in the affirma-
tive.
Chairman Mellinger asked staff to expand on the caretaker's ....
quarters, and asked if there is a problem with the Health Depart-
ment to keep that there.
Community Development Director Miller stated that there was quite
a bit of discussion at the time this was originally presented.
Part of the concern, expressed previously by City Council, was
the long term use of travel trailers for caretaker's units. When
we adopted the new Title 17 there was considerable discussion
about this. If caretaker units were proposed they should be
incorporated as part of the design of the project and should be
something that was of a permanent basis. The policy direction
was to get away from temporary sorts of structures being used,
such as travel trailers. In addition, the utilities at the site
are rather lacking; that is one of the big problems the Chamber
has struggled with the entire time they have been there. There
is inadequate water and there is no sewage disposal.
Community Development Director Miller stated that as Mr. vik has
indicated the travel trailer they have moved on the site is self
contained. However, it still needs to be dumped, this was also
one of the concerns. The site was not really developed for
accommodations and as the Chamber has indicated their lease
expires in July, 1989, and they hope to find a new site and they
did not want to go to the expense of installing a septic system
for the site.
....
Chairman Mellinger stated that he presumes that the portable
sanitary facility is pumped, and asked about the facilities in
the trailer and how this is disposed.
Mr. vik stated that the portable sanitary facility is pumped
weekly. We have two 1,000 gallon holding tanks for grey water
and those are pumped whenever required. The sanitary facility is
used by the caretaker and people attending the horse shows. The
trailer has a small holding tank underneath that can be unscrewed
and removed and dumped into our grey water holding tanks.
Minutes of Planning commission
May 17, 1988
Page 7
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 84-5 REVISED - LAKE ELSINORE CHAMBER OF
COMMERCE CONTINUED
-
Chairman Mellinger stated that if we are only going to July,
1989, he has no problem provided that the caretaker's quarters be
hooked up to the holding tank.
Commissioner Brown asked Mr. vik how fast they could have those
improvements done on the trailer, adequate hook-up to water and
sewage disposal.
Mr. vik responded that they could have the improvements done in a
week.
Motion by Chairman Mellinger to approve Conditional Use Permit
84-5 REVISED with the finding that the previous Negative
Declaration is adequate with the 2 conditions of approval,
referencing condition number 3 of Exhibit II, that the
caretaker's quarters will be allowed provided that proper and
adequate hook-ups be completed within ten (10) days of today, for
sanitary disposal, second by Commissioner Brown.
Approved 4-0
IT WAS THE CONSENSUS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO CONSIDER PUBLIC
HEARING NUMBER 4 AND BUSINESS ITEM NUMBER 2 CONCURRENTLY.
-
Conditional Use Permit 88-5 and Commercial Project 88-6 - Mobil
oil Corporation - Associate Planner Wilkins presented a request
for a Conditional Use Permit for a self serve gasoline station
with a 924 square foot retail sales facility, mini-mart, and a
576 square foot mini car wash, located on 1.14 acres, on the east
side of Dexter along the south side of Central Avenue (Highway
74) .
Chairman Mellinger opened the public hearing at 7:54 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Conditional Use Permit 88-5
and Commercial Project 88-6.
Mr. Ken Huepper, representing Mobil Oil, stated that he would
like to address condition number 4 of the Conditional Use Permit,
which states that the hours of operation of the car wash shall be
limited to 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. to ensure noise control in the
area. What we would respectfully request is that this condition
be eliminated, and condition number 3 be extended to allow hours
of operation of the car wash so long as required sound level of
the City were adhered to and mitigation efforts were performed to
satisfy the Commission.
Chairman Mellinger asked staff if the 65 dba would also apply
after 10:00 p.m.
Mr. Huepper stated that the requirement after 10:00 p.m. is 60
dba.
- Mr. Huepper stated that they are surrounded by commercial uses
there and this is the reason that they would like to be able to
serve commuter traffic early in the morning, prior to 7:00 a.m.,
and not have restrictions on the hours of operation of the car
wash.
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone else wished to speak on
Conditional Use Permit 88-5 and Commercial Project 88-6.
Mr. Ed Buderack, David Jay Flood Architects-consultant architects
for Mobil Oil, requested clarification on condition number 4 of
Commercial project 88-6, pertaining to the redesign of the trash
enclosure.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 8
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-5 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-6 - MOBIL OIL
CONTINUED
Associate Planner Wilkins stated that as noted in the submitted
plans there is a combined storage area and trash enclosure, but
there is no pedestrian access provided, which we currently
require in commercial settings. Generally, when you have the
trash enclosure doors open to provide pedestrian access the doors
are left open and you have an unsightly condition being seen by __
the public.
Chairman Mellinger stated then basically you are saying that
there should be a screened gate on the trash enclosure.
Associate Planner Wilkins stated that there should be an opened
entry way for pedestrians that is screened.
Mr. Buderack commented on condition number 12 and condition
number 22, of Commercial Project 88-6, pertaining to doors and
accent trim. In terms of discussing these items, I would like to
break it down into two things: one, the trim on the building and
second, the canopy columns themselves. The reason we go with a
dark trim is to try and unify the whole appearance. If we do go
with a lighter trim what happens is that it tends to get dirty
around the doors jams and provides an unsightly appearance.
Secondly, it tends to break up the window; for example, the car
wash doors or the division between the windows on the mobil mart
and the painted window panel below. Whereas, with the trim being
a dark color it tends to unify the appearance. In terms of the
canopy columns we are going with a white canopy column for
several reasons: ease of visibility, and cleanliness.
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of Conditional Use Permit 88-6 and Commercial Project 88-6.
Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone wished
to speak in opposition. Receiving no response, Chairman
Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter.
Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger closed the public
hearing at 8:02 p.m.
--
Commissioner Kelley asked staff how they feel about the white
compared to the muted white, can not visualize this.
Associate Planner Wilkins responded the white currently proposed,
on the materials board, is a very bright white, and staff feels
that it should be harmonious and complementary with the cream
color buildings of the commercial center adjacent to it.
commissioner Brinley stated that her concerns are the noise
levels and hours of operation. Asked if there were any homes
located around there and if so their distance from this proposal.
Associate Planner Wilkins stated that it will eventually be
surrounded by commercial uses, and there are some mobile units
adjacent, on the other side of Dexter, but it is not known if
they are inhabited, at this time.
Commissioner Brinley asked if the applicant is requesting to open --
the business at 5:00 or 6:00 a.m., and how late in the evenings.
Associate Planner Wilkins responded that he believes that the
applicant will be suggesting a 24 hour operation.
commissioner Brinley stated that she has a concern with the noise
level, of the car wash, on the existing homes in the area. At
this point, does not like the idea of the car wash being open for
24 hours.
Minutes of Planning commission
May 17, 1988
Page 9
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-5 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-6 = MOBIL OIL
CONTINUED
.....
Mr. Huepper stated that the distance between the actual entrance
to the car wash and our property line on Dexter is approximately
80 foot, so in addition to that you would have the width of
Dexter, which I believe is 60-foot.
commissioner Brinley asked with that distance would the noise
levels effect the residents.
Mr. Huepper responded in the negative, stating that their
analysis, which would be submitted to staff, will show that the
noise level as it would approach the homes across the street
would be at a level that would be be below the required levels.
We would also take action to show what the ambient noise level is
currently from the existing traffic along Highway 74.
Mr. Huepper stated that their main concern was to be able to
adequately serve the commuting hours, and we would be amenable to
some hours 6:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. or 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.,
but 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. we feel is a bit restrictive.
Commissioner Kelley asked Mr. Huepper what he would estimate the
decibel level to be at the street?
---'
Chairman Mellinger stated that he believed that we would need a
noise study for that, obviously it is going to have to be rather
extensive, day and night.
Commissioner Brinley asked if the residents received notification
of the proposal.
Community Development Director Miller stated that notices were
sent to the property owners within a 300 foot radius.
Commissioner Brinley asked for the location of the dry-off area.
Associate Planner Wilkins responded that staff anticipated this
need and suggested that Mobil oil provide three (3) dry-off
parking stalls at the exit of the car wash adjacent to the access
road onto Allen Street.
Mr. Huepper stated that the operation of the car wash--there are
approximately 15 washes per hour and the cycle is about
two and one half minutes there is a blower cycle which is the
maximum noise level, which needs to be addressed and will be
addressed, so the need for people to dry off their cars should
not occur.
~
commissioner Brinley asked how long the blower cycle last, once a
car has started through the car wash.
Mr. Huepper responded approximately a minute and a half.
Commissioner Brown commented on Mr. Huepper statement that with
the blower people should not have to dry off their vehicles,
stating that he has just done some extensive studies on car
washes, and it takes an average of an 80-foot tunnel with a
20-foot drop just to get it to an acceptable level where three
men can dry it off in 15 seconds.
Mr. Huepper stated that they do not anticipate people stopping as
they exit the car wash to dry off their vehicle. The blower, we
feel, will take care of a majority of it and as it relates to
people stopping and blocking traffic this situation we do not
envision.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 10
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-5 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-6 - MOBIL OIL
CONTINUED
Commissioner Brown asked if deionized water would be used.
Mr. Huepper stated that he would have to get back on that, as he
is not certain.
commissioner Brown asked for the location of the restrooms.
....
Associate Planner Wilkins stated that the applicant has indicated
on the floor plans that there will be pUblic facilities in the
mini mart, we have also required that they meet handicap require-
ments.
Commissioner Brown asked if the mini-mart would be open 24 hours,
it will not be a lock situation at night.
Mr. Huepper responded in the affirmative.
commissioner Brown referred to conditions 5, 12, and 22, of
Commercial Project 88-6, recommending that these be amended to
read something of design texture, roof line, surround, and
materials shall all be consistent with the project next door,
which would mean a design change of not only the mini-mart, but
the car wash to reflect the surrounds. I am not sure that you
can put the surrounds on that type of canopy, it would add
additional breaks in that canopy roof. It would change the color
of the tile to be consistent with the project next door. I would
also like to see a planter on the apron portion of the mini mart,
possibly a 24 inch raised box planter all the way across it.
Commissioner Brown asked for the location of the air conditioning
and heating equipment.
Community Development Director Miller, referred to the site plan
included in the packet, stating that there is an indication of an
enclosure for the air conditioning and heating equipment behind
the building in the planter area.
....
commissioner Brown stated that on Conditional Use Permit 88-5, he
would like to add a condition that the Conditional Use Permit
will expire after one year unless building permits are issued.
Commissioner Brown asked staff if on the original approval of the
project next door did we not ask, irrespective of whether a
project came in or not on this property, that this area be
hydroseeded and made presentable before release of utilities. If
building permits are not pulled for this project within 30 days,
I would request that those conditions be enforced.
Commissioner Brown asked how the table feels about amending the
conditions, as far as having it harmonious with the building next
door. I do not see any purpose in making it something different.
Commissioner Brinley stated that this area is
city, and will receive a lot of traffic flow.
Commissioner Brown that the other project is
would like to see it continued in the same way.
a window to our
I agree with
very nice and I
....
commissioner Brown commented on condition number 16, of Com-
mercial Project 88-6, pertaining to the possibility of coming in
with a food establishment.
Associate Planner Wilkins stated that this condition was suggest-
ed in order to encourage and insure that any food preparation
on-site would be in accordance with Health Department standards,
as some mini-marts prepare food on-site.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 11
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-5 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-6 - MOBIL OIL
CONTINUED
-
Commissioner Brown asked if this could create a need for
additional parking spaces.
Mr. Huepper stated there will be no on-site food preparation.
Commissioner Brown suggested verbiage "there shall be no food
preparation allowed on-site; no fixtures, plumbing or anything to
reflect it.
commissioner Brown asked if air and water facilities would be
provided, and their location.
Community Development Director Miller stated that air and water
facilities will be provided adjacent to the car wash and the
parking stalls.
Commissioner Brown suggested that where ever the air and water
facilities are located that there be adequate ingress/egress.
Chairman Mellinger stated that we need a noise study. We have
noise attenuation sufficient to meet the City's maximum 65 dba,
presumes 60 night time. Suggested that residential standards be
met if the mobile homes are occupied. Therefore, condition
number 3, of Conditional Use Permit 88-5, should provide noise
attenuation based on a study from a certified acoustical
engineer, and suggested that this study be done both day and
night.
-
Chairman Mellinger commented on the commercial project, stating
there appears to be a need for vertical landscaping around the
mini-mart, and this could be added to the landscaping condition.
Chairman Mellinger stated that the trees illustrated in the
rendering do not match the trees illustrated on the landscaping
plan. Therefore, I would like to see that the number of 24 inch
box trees be the same number as in the rendering, instead of two
there would be four along Central and three along Dexter.
Motion by
and approve
subject to
Report, with
Commissioner Brown to adopt Negative Declaration 88-9
Conditional Use Permit 88-5 based on the Findings and
the 7 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff
the following amendments:
Condition No.1:
"Conditional Use Permit 88-5 shall become
effective upon the approval of Commercial
Project 88-6. This Conditional Use Permit
will lapse and become void unless Building
Permits are issued within one (1) year of
the date of approval."
Condition No.3:
"The developer shall provide noise attenu-
ation based on a study, to be done both
day and night, from a certified acoustical
engineer sufficient to meet the City's
maximum 65 dba daytime (7:00 a.m. - 10:00
p.m.) noise standard for the General
Commerical District."
-
Condition No.4:
"The hours of operation of the car wash
shall be limited to 7:00 a.m. to 10:00
p.m. to insure noise control in the area.
DELETED.
Second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 12
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-5 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-6 - MOBIL OIL
CONTINUED
Motion by Chairman Mellinger to recommend
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-9
Commercial Project 88-6, based on the Findings
31 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff
following amendments:
Condition No.9:
Condition No. 16:
Condition No. 22:
to City Council
and approval of
and subject to the
Report, with the
-
"The submitted landscape and irrigation
plans shall receive final approval from
the City's Landscape Architect, and shall
incorporate some variety in shrubs around
the perimeter of the site in addition to
the rapholepsis, placing shrubs in the
small planter between the canopy and the
drive aisle, and incorporating large
screen shrubs along the back of the car
wash. Any additional requirements deemed
necessary by the City Landscape Architect
shall be fully incorporated within the
final plans prior to issuance of Building
Permits. Vertical landscaping around the
mini-mart shall be provided. The number
of trees, 24 inch box size, shall be in-
stalled along the streets as reflected in
the rendering. A box planter, possibly
24 inch raised box, shall be provided
all the way across the entry portion of
the mini-mart.
"No food preparation shall be allowed on
site."
-
"The project shall be consistent with the
adjacent development, in regards to
design, texture and color, roof line, roof
surrounds and material."
Second by Commissioner Brown.
Commissioner Kelley asked for discussion.
Commissioner Kelley asked Commissioner
concerns were addressed with the amendment
22.
Brown if all
to condition
of his
number
Commissioner Brown answered in the affirmative.
There being no further discussion, Chairman Mellinger called for
the question.
Approved 4-0
At this time, 8:26 p.m., the Planning commission recessed.
At this time, 8:40 p.m., the Planning Commission reconvened.
IT WAS THE CONSENSUS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO CONSIDER PUBLIC __
HEARING NUMBER 5 AND BUSINESS ITEM NUMBER 1 CONCURRENTLY.
Conditional Use Permit 88-7 and Industrial Project 86-3 Amendment
Number 1 - Industrial Concepts I Associate Planner Magee
presented a request to allow the Riverside County Department of
Social Services to occupy a 25,353 square foot industrial build-
ing within the Warm Springs Business Park, located on the south-
west corner of Minthorn Street and Chaney Street.
Chairman Mellinger opened the public hearing at 8:43 p.m., asking
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 13
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-7 AND INDUSTRIAL PROJECT 86-3 AMENDMENT
NUMBER ~ CONTINUED
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Conditional Use Permit 88-7
and Industrial Project 86-3 Amendment Number 1.
-
Mr. steve Brown, representing Industrial Concepts, stated that he
has a concern on condition number 4 of the Conditional Use
Permit, pertaining to the six-foot high solid masonry wall across
the property line. I discussed this with staff this afternoon,
and believe that staff is in concurrence. I would suggest that
we modify that condition to provide a wall along Lot 10 of Parcel
Map 21297, which is the only open area between Phase I and Phase
II.
Chairman Mellinger asked Associate Planner Magee if there was a
problem with this.
Associate Planner Magee responded in the negative.
--
Mr. Brown stated that he has a number of concerns on the
Conditions of Approval for Industrial project 86-3 Amendment
Number 1, and then presented a floor plan illustration prepared
by their architect this afternoon. This particular concern deals
with condition number 20, which basically deals with the entry
way. Staff has recommended that we modify the entry way, recess
the building fifteen-feet (15'). Staff was not aware of the
floor plan, that we have been spending a better part of four
months on. What I had my architect prepare this afternoon, which
you have in front of you, is he has modified this and come in
ten-feet, which is not the fifteen-feet that staff originally
requested, but I think it is a compromise. What we are trying to
do is preserve a lobby area that has to be a certain size so that
we can facilitate all of the people coming in and out of this
facility.
Mr. Brown commented on condition number 22, pertaining to the
rear elevations. Referring to the exhibit posted, stated that
wherever yellow is illustrated glass store front is proposed.
What staff would like is for us to insert this five-feet, what
this does is it takes away from the corridor and interview space,
and we do not see any purpose in doing this.
Mr. Brown commented on condition number 24, pertaining to the
twenty-five percent compact parking spaces. We are providing 163
parking spaces for the facility, because this is what the County
has requested. Asked why they are being required to stay within
the twenty-five percent ratio if we have already exceeded the
parking requirement by such a great number of spaces.
Associate Planner Magee referred to Exhibit "G", Section
l7.66.040.A.4, which is an excerpt from the Zoning Code, and
stated that they have fifty-two percent (52%) of Phase II as
compact spaces. Staff's opinion is that this does not meet the
-- intent of the Code.
Commissioner Brown asked Mr. Brown how many full size spaces they
are required to have.
Mr. Brown responded that they are required to have seventy-five
(75) full size spaces, and we have almost one-hundred (100).
Associate Planner Magee stated that he believes that seventy-
nine (79) full spaces and eighty-four (84) compact spaces are
provided.
Community Development Director Miller stated that another concern
was the concentration of compact spaces, as presented in the
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 14
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-7 AND INDUSTRIAL PROJECT 86-3 AMENDMENT
NUMBER ~ CONTINUED
proposed site plan all of the parking spaces to the rear of the
building, which presumably would be for employee parking, are
compact spaces. We feel that an appropriate number of compact
spaces would be fewer than presented, and further the location
and concentration of compact spaces is poorly located.
commissioner Brown stated that the Department of Social Services
is requesting one-hundred seventy percent (170%) of what we
require, and asked if a letter was issued in regard to this.
-
Mr. Brown responded in the affirmative, and stated this was
included in their lease agreement.
Commissioner Brown asked Mr. Brown if the Department of Social
Services had provided specifications, ratio, of compact spaces or
just parking spaces.
Mr. Brown answered in the negative.
Mr. Brown stated that he agrees with Community Development
Director Miller that the compact spaces should be intregrated in
a better manner.
Mr. Brown commented on condition number 28, stating that Exhibit
"E" illustrates how staff has come up with the revised parking
layout, as it is adjacent to buildings 5 and 4. utilizing the
posted plan, Mr. Brown explained how they propose to screen the
loading areas from the proposed office parking area.
Chairman Mellinger asked if there was anyone else wishing to
speak in favor of Conditional Use Permit 88-7 and Industrial
Project 86-3 Amendment Number 1. Receiving no response, Chairman
Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiv-
ing no response, Chairman Mellinger closed the public hearing at
9:00 p.m.
-
Chairman Mellinger asked if staff would like to comment on some
of the points raised.
Associate Planner Magee stated that the site plan that Mr. Brown
is referring to, flipping the planter area, staff felt a need for
additional parking for those users in the existing building.
without counting those spaces with our flip-flop and reducing the
number of compact spaces, staff came up with an overall net loss
in parking of nine (9) parking spaces. Mr. Brown indicated to me
that those spaces even if flopped, as staff has recommended,
passes they would still count those for the County offices,
therefore, I believe you come up with a net loss of three (3) or
four (4) spaces.
Associate Planner Magee stated that as far as the rear elevations
it's a shame that staff did not have an opportunity to review the
floor plan. In an effort to facilitate the County's building we
accepted the application without a floor plan. This floor plan
was shown to staff this afternoon, and I have discussed with Mr. __
Brown various ways to get around the store front issue. Staff's
intent in that, was to replicate an office all the way around.
Staff did not feel that the elevations presented on the school
district office were in accordance with an office use. The
latter item, the front area creating the fifteen-foot recessed
area for the main entrance, will have to be left up to the
Commission.
Commissioner Brown asked Mr. Brown for the length of their lease
with the County Department of Social Services.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 15
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-7 AND INDUSTRIAL PROJECT 86-3 AMENDMENT
NUMBER 1 CONTINUED
~
Mr. Brown stated that their lease was for ten years, and there
are two options to extend one year, each option.
commissioner Brinley requested clarification on condition number
10, of Industrial Project 86-3 Amendment Number 1, pertaining to
food service uses.
Associate Planner Magee stated that with the lack of a floor plan
staff wanted to catch everything possible, and the feeling there
was that perhaps there would be a cafeteria area, that not only
the employees but also the general public could use. Realizing
that there is a lack of food service in that area and with the
additional concentration of approximately 100 more employees,
plus the customers, there was a potential for a food service use,
restaurant or cafeteria, that could actually draw more traffic
in, and staff wanted to make sure that all parking issues were
met.
commissioner Brinley asked Mr. Brown if there will be a cafeteria
and if this is illustrated on any of the floor plans.
Mr. Brown stated that there will be no food uses other than the
normal canteens, machines with cokes and candy bars.
~
Commissioner Brinley commented on the lobby area, stating that
you are in an industrial area and you are going to be bringing
people in who are going to have children running around. I would
like to see some type of play area put in for these children.
Commissioner Brinley asked Mr. Brown how many people are serviced
by the Department of Social Services on a daily basis, or if he
had an estimate on the number of people that will be coming in
and out of the facility.
Mr. Brown stated that he could not recall; certainly more than
fifty and probably less than a hundred.
Commissioner Brinley asked staff if the applicant was building
over the property line.
Associate Planner Magee stated this is correct, but in discussion
with Mr. Brown this afternoon he indicated that a lot merger
would not be a problem, and this is addressed in the conditions
of approval.
Commissioner Kelley asked what would be the best way to direct
the employees to the rear, for parking.
.....
Mr. Brown stated that he believed that that area could be
designated. In fact, that is what we have done. I think that
there are some rear entrances to the building for the employees.
Commissioner Kelley asked if this could be addressed in the
conditions.
Chairman Mellinger stated that only if it could be enforced, and
asked how this would be enforced.
Community Development Director Miller stated that the Conditional
Use Permit provides you the ability to enforce on-going
conditions. Although, there are certain practical difficulties
associated with that.
Community Development Director Miller stated that he believes
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 16
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-7 AND INDUSTRIAL PROJECT 86-3 AMENDMENT
NUMBER 1 CONTINUED
that Commissioner Kelley's intent is to get the employees to park
in the rear and not the front.
Mr. Brown stated that this is also the intent of the department
heads. They have talked about having the employee parking and
entrance in the rear and reserving the parking up front, and I __
think that there would be a lot of cooperation in that area.
Chairman Mellinger stated that in regards to the play area--this
indicates yard, what is that?
Mr. Brown stated that the County has nine to ten vehicles that
they need to park in a storage area, a secured area. That yard
area is for that.
Chairman Mellinger asked if the vehicles are there during the
day.
Mr. Brown responded in the negative.
Chairman Mellinger stated that this could conceivably be the play
area for the children.
Mr. Brown stated that the Department of Social Services has
requested an area where their employees could go outside and
relax and have it landscaped, and we have shown this area on the
plot plan.
Mr. Brown stated that he was looking for a way to satisfy Commis-
sioner Brinley'S concern about the children, and try and keep the
project alive. The Department of Social Services will not take
interview or lawn space and make into a children's play area; as
they do not view this as a problem.
Commissioner Brinley stated the problem that we view is the fact
that you are in a center that is suppose to be mainly catering to
industrial and manufacturing.
Mr. Brown stated that this area is totally away from all of the
industrial users and it has it's own separate entrances.
--
Commissioner Brinley stated that she believed that a
representative from the County should be present this evening, so
that we can tell them our concerns.
Chairman Mellinger stated that perhaps we could
outdoor area somewhere within that yard area for a
play area.
Chairman Mellinger stated that as far as the twenty-five percent
(25%) of total number of parking. It says maximum of twenty-five
percent (25%) of the total number of parking spaces. I think for
your purpose there is one word, "required", that applies to get
the excess. The way I read it--the way it reads, it is
twenty-five percent (25%) of all the spaces, so in my mind unless --
there is a code amendment that it the way it goes.
require an
children's
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to adopt Negative Declaration No.
88-11 and approve Conditional Use Permit 88-7 based on the
Findings and the 4 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff
Report, with the following amendments:
Condition No.4:
"Applicant shall install a six-foot (6')
high solid masonry wall along Lot 10 of
Parcel Map 21297, to the satisfaction of
the Community Development Director."
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 17
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-7 AND INDUSTRIAL PROJECT 86-3 AMENDMENT
NUMBER 1 CONTINUED
Condition No.5:
"Employee parking shall be directed to the
rear."
-
Second by Commissioner Brown.
Approved 4-0
Motion by commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-11 and approval of
Industrial Project 86-3 Amendment Number 1 based on the Findings
and subject to the 44 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff
Report, with the following amendments:
Condition No. 20:
"In order to be more consistent with
typical office development standards the
proposed client entry shall be recessed a
minimum of ten-feet (10') and provided
with enhanced architectural and landscape
treatments, which may include canopy and
landscape entry statement extending to the
drive aisle."
Condition No. 22:
"A complete set of rear elevations shall
be submitted with building plans and shall
exhibit similar treatments as to those
illustrated in Exhibit "F", subject to the
approval of the Community Development
Director."
-
Condition No. 45:
"Provide a children's play
satisfaction of the Community
Director."
area to the
Development
Second by Commissioner Brown.
Approved 4-0
INFORMATIONAL
1.
Engineering Department Update Planning
Concerns - Chairman Mellinger asked if there
from staff.
Commission
were any
Traffic
comments
Community Development Director Miller responded in the negative.
-
Commissioner Brown commented on the proposal and the finding,
discussing warrants for the off-ramps for Railroad Canyon Road.
Asked if warrants are not only an issue for signals.
Community Development Director Miller stated that warrants
address a variety of different issues including stops signs,
traffic signals and other traffic control measures.
Commissioner Brown stated that he
warrants a traffic signal now, but it
signs.
does not
certainly
believe that it
warrants stop
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Community Development Director Miller stated that he had nothing to
report.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 17, 1988
Page 18
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Kellev:
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Brinlev:
Nothing to report.
commissioner Brown:
-
Nothing to report.
Chairman Mellinqer:
Received a memorandum concerning the cut slopes on the Buster/Alles
tract indicating that the re-vegetation is occurring and that there
is not a substantial need, or at least there is no erosion problems.
My intent there was that there is probably still a visual impact. I
do not think that the re-vegetation is adequate, therefore I believe
that another hydroseed is necessary.
I am submitting a letter, which I will request to be copied and
distributed to the Council, Commission and department heads. The
letter references a few problems in the Green Ridge tract area;
stockpiling, dust, visual impacts, erosion and drainage. I am
requesting that the stockpiling permit, which was approved without
the knowledge of the Community Development Director, be withdrawn and
no further permits issued on that tract until that has been returned
to it's natural state, or graded consistent with the SUbdivision. In
that immediate area, I have also had the same concern about a
dangerous situation on Robb Road, concerning the run-off from model
homes. I would suggest that all building activities be halted on the
site until the run-off is diverted into the orange grove, and that
street repaired to a safe condition.
....,
An interim flood control channel has been graded to allow Curtis
Development to develop homes on small lots. This channel is to be
constructed to the satisfaction of the City Engineer. Therefore, I
do insist that the City Engineer require full fencing, to prevent
ATV, and landscaped with a drought resistant material.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning Commis-
sion adjourned at 9:24 p.m. Motion by Commissioner Brinley, second
by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
Approved,
~-!!Lfn5'
Chairman
~:Ul .
Linda Grindstaff
Planning Commission
Secretary
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
7TH
DAY
OF
JUNE
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Brinley.
ROLL CALL:
-
PRESENT: Commissioners:
Brinley, Brown, and Mellinger
ABSENT:
Commissioners:
Kelley
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planner Libiez and Associate Planner Last.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brown to approve minutes of May 17,1988, as
submitted, second by commissioner Brinley.
Approved 3-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Mellinger asked the Secretary if there were any request to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Mellinger
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
-
1. Zone Code Amendment 88-5 Industrial Concepts I - Associate
Planner Last presented proposal to amend the text of the C-M
(Commercial-Manufacturing) Zoning District to allow churches as
conditional uses, sUbject to obtaining a Conditional Use Permit.
If approved, this would apply city-wide.
Chairman Mellinger opened the public hearing at 7:03 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone Code Amendment 88-5.
-
Mr. Steve Brown, representing Industrial Concepts I, commented on
alternative number 1, grant deed restrictions on operational
hours for other C-M users. We have the School District which
occupies 67 spaces; next door, we have the County Department of
Social Services building which has 140-150 spaces. We feel that
if we put restrictions on the grant deed that, basically, says
users can't go down occasionally and work in the evening and on
weekends this is going to discourage a lot of users from going
into the center. We do not think that there will be a parking
problem. The church has agreed not to have any services during
the daytime hours, and we feel that the grant deed restriction
would pose a real problem.
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of Zone Code Amendment 88-5. Receiving no response, Chairman
Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger closed the public
hearing at 7:07 p.m.
Commissioner Brown stated he had no further comments other than
previously stated.
commissioner Brinley commented on alternative number 1, stating
that she would like to see it remain as it is. Asked if she was
correct in assuming that they are going to get the Conditional
Use Permit for three-years, with annual review.
Chairman Mellinger responded reviewed annually but for a maximum
of three-years, as recommended.
Commissioner Brinley stated that if we allow the tenants to come
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 7, 1988
Page 2
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-5 - INDUSTRIAL CONCEPTS I CONTINUED
in and work on Sunday, work with some of these chemicals, we
could have a problem.
Commissioner Brinley stated that her concerns remain as previous-
ly stated, the center was built for commercial-manufacturing
uses. The zoning and General Plan designates this for
commercial-manufacturing uses and would like to see it remain __
that way.
Chairman Mellinger stated that on alternative number I, if we
added verbiage "as determined by the Community Development
Director" there should not be a conflict. The deed restriction
would still be there and if there were substantial violation of
that the Community Development Director could make that
determination and refer it to the City Attorney, and this could
be more specifically addressed at the Conditional Use Permit
stage depending upon the individual situations.
Chairman Mellinger stated that as far as the comments on light
manufacturing uses rema1n1ng as one of the principal uses
intended for the C-M Zoning District, this is all well and good,
however, it does specifically say that light manufacturing uses
which are compatible with the commercial uses that are permitted.
I would have a problem if a light manufacturing use went in that
had some of these hazardous chemicals being stored. I would
contend that they would not be compatible with the commercial
uses permitted by the C-M Zone.
Chairman Mellinger stated that with the all of criteria it can be
a valid temporary use under a Conditional Use Permit, and the
Conditional Use Permit would allow more specific restrictions __
depending on each location.
Motion by Chairman Mellinger to recommend adoption of Negative
Declaration No. 88-10 and approval of the request based on the
Findings of approval identified in the Staff Report and the
testimony heard tonight, and recommend approval of the Code
Amendment with the criteria as amended on Exhibit III, as
follows:
1. "Provide Grant Deed restrictions on the operational
hours of other C-M users so it does not interfere
with the church operations, as determined by the Com-
munity Development Director."
Motion failed for lack of a second.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to deny Zone Code Amendment 88-5,
second by Commissioner Brown.
Approved 2-1 (Chairman Mellinger voting no)
IT WAS THE CONSENSUS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO CONSIDER PUBLIC
HEARING NUMBER 2 AND 4 CONCURRENTLY.
General Plan Amendment 88-2 and Zone Change 88-3 - Century
American Corporation - Senior Planner Libiez presented proposal
to amend the General Plan from Public/Semi Public to High Density
Residential (12-24 du/ac), and to rezone such property from R-l
HPD (Single-Family Residential Hillside Planned District) to R-3
(High Density Residential). A 7.41 acre parcel located between
I-IS and Casino Drive (Vista Del Lago) at the intersection of
Franklin Street.
-
Chairman Mellinger asked for the designation of the property
immediately between the commercial and the subject property to
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 7, 1988
Page 3
GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 88-2 AND ZONE CHANGE 88-3 - CENTURY AMERICAN
CONTINUED
the southeast, basically between Casino and I-15.
-
senior Planner Libiez responded that it is commercial.
Chairman Mellinger opened the public hearing at 7:19 p.m., aSking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of General Plan Amendment 88-2
and Zone Change 88-3.
Mr. Roger Hobbs, representing Century American, gave a brief
report on the history/building operation of Century American.
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of General Plan Amendment 88-2 and Zone Change 88-3. Receiving
no response, Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak
in opposition. Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger asked
if anyone wished to speak on the matter. Receiving no response,
Chairman Mellinger closed the public hearing at 7:23 p.m.
commissioner Brown stated that he has concern about drainage off
the site, referring to the Initial Environmental Assessment, item
3.b,c, and g. Concerned about the Federal Emergency Management
Agency (FEMA) regulations, and asked if there is an updated map
and we just do not have it, or has it not been updated.
-
senior Planner Libiez stated that in speaking with Mr. Keith,
Special Project Engineer, that work was done when the freeway
went in and the Wash "D" area was significantly altered, so that
it drains along the eastern face of the I-15 corridor. That map
has not yet been corrected by FEMA, and I believe that they are
trying to get all of the associated changes on that side of the
city as well as the Lake Management changes together to submit,
then that change would be made by FEMA.
Commissioner Brown stated that he assumes that all of that area
will drain into the riverbed. Asked what provisions, or
discussions, are being made for armoring that in the future.
-
Community Development Director Miller stated that the City has
been working with the Army Corp of Engineers and consultants for
the Federal Emergency Management Agency to do a complete new topo
and hydrology and revise the entire floodplain designations along
the San Jacinto River, from the Lake up to the City Limits.
Another issue of that would be looking at the types of improve-
ments that would be appropriate.
commissioner Brown stated that with the topography and sharp
angles, at some point in time, that is going to have to be
armored. Would like to see Engineering, at least, look at
possibly a benefit assessment district or something of that
nature to mitigate that area.
Commissioner Brown asked if their hydrology report would have to
reflect only this property's impact or the cumulative impact.
Community Development Director Miller stated that they would have
to study the hydrology of the entire drainage area affected, so
this would address cumulative impacts.
commissioner Brinley stated that Commissioner Brown covered her
concerns on the FEMA maps.
commissioner Brinley commented on the trees and asked for their
height, in terms of future development.
Senior Planner Libiez stated that the recommendation is for
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 7, 1988
Page 4
GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 88-2 AND ZONE CHANGE 88-3 - CENTURY AMERICAN
CONTINUED
twenty percent (20%) or more to be twenty-four inch (24") box
trees.
Chairman Mellinger stated that since it is commercial along Vista
De Lago to the southeast, this is a logical pattern.
Chairman Mellinger stated that he concurs with Commissioners
Brown and Brinley on the environmental concerns. Thinks that the
subsequent environmental review should be fairly detailed on its
mitigation measures, in terms of mitigation for run-off,
cumulative impacts, and also the air quality that was identified.
Thinks that on a cumulative basis mitigation other than bicycle
racks might be considered, perhaps park-n-ride. Not that this
project would have to build a park-n-ride, but perhaps some
consideration for a fund/fee to ultimately build one once all of
the projects are built.
...-
Chairman Mellinger stated that as far as the aesthetics, it says
low profile buildings, thinks that you are going to have to look
very closely at the grading as well as the landscaping involved.
Motion by Chairman Mellinger to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-15, with direction for
specific evaluation of the project on subsequent environmental
review, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 3-0
Motion by Commissioner Brown to recommend to City Council
approval of General Plan Amendment 88-2 based on the Findings
listed in the Staff Report, and adoption of Resolution No. 88-2, ...-
entitled as follows:
RESOLUTION NO. 88-2
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY
OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA, RECOMMENDING ADOPTION
OF GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 88-2 TO CHANGE THE LAND
USE ELEMENT OF THE 1982 GENERAL PLAN CHANGING THE
DESIGNATION OF A EIGHT (8) ACRE PARCEL FROM
PUBLIC/SEMI PUBLIC TO HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 3-0
Motion by Commissioner Brown to recommend to City Council
approval of Zone Change 88-3, based on the Findings listed in the
Staff Report, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 3-0
Commissioner Brown suggested that when this project comes before
the Commission that we have rather extensive cross sections of
the property, all directions.
Chairman Mellinger suggested that evaluation of access to the
project be included.
....
3. General Plan Amendment 88-3 - George Alongi - Community Develop-
ment Director Miller presented proposal to amend the General Plan
Circulation Element extending the Modified Secondary (80' right-
of-way) designation on Chaney Street from Pottery Street north-
easterly to Flint/Davis Street intersection, changing the desig-
nation from Major (100' right-of-way) and changing the desig-
nation on Strickland Avenue from Collector (76' right-of- way) to
a 60 foot right-of-way.
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 7, 1988
Page 5
GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 88-3 - GEORGE ALONGI CONTINUED
Chairman Mellinger opened the public hearing at 7:35 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of General Plan Amendment
88-3.
.....
Mr. Alan Manee, representing the applicant, stated that the type
of considerations stated in the report are basically the
considerations that we feel make this proposal worthy. Given the
physical setting of the two streets; the amount of development
that is already in place; the likelihood for consideration of
reduction of right-of-way just because of the cost of obtaining,
for example, significant additional rights-of-way that one could
achieve perhaps the same results on a restricted or reduced
right-of-way and either eliminate parking, sidewalks or the
number of lanes. The main issue, for us, is that the reductions
themselves are not seen as a specific solution for a specific
project that has no application to the community or to the rest
of the road right-of-way. But is, in fact, a direction that
perhaps the city was already going in, and the merit of the
reduction is that there will be a way of obtaining the kinds of
traffic flows and not burden the city with excessive costs to
obtain rights-of-way for numerous house sites that are already
built at a lesser right-of-way than even what is proposed right
now.
~
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of General Plan Amendment 88-3. Receiving no response, Chairman
Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone wished
to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman
Mellinger closed the public hearing at 7:38 p.m.
commissioner Brinley asked if strickland would be paved and have
a median.
Community Development Director Miller stated that Strickland,
under the Code designation, is a Collector and could potentially
have a median, but most likely would not. Pavement or improve-
ment of strickland would come either as a City project or as part
of proposed development.
commissioner Brown asked if strickland would be used as an
alternate to Lakeshore Drive, under-the new considerations for
circulation.
Community
certainly a
probably a
Collector.
Development Director Miller stated that this is
potential consideration. I think one that was
part of the original designation of Strickland, as a
~
commissioner Brown stated that you are going to have to obtain
right-of-way. It is certainly going to be more expensive for the
City to obtain additional right-of-way on Lakeshore Drive to make
that an Arterial. Whereas, strickland you could, in the present
status and in the future, because of less desirability of the
property because it is not lake front property. This would be an
excellent alternative to Lakeshore Drive, and eliminate all
traffic from continuing down Chaney street to Lakeshore Drive.
commissioner Brown stated that there have been several residences
built in the last couple of years, and asked what right-of-way
they dedicated.
Community Development Director Miller stated that he believes
that there has only been one residence that has made the full
improvements to Strickland, which was a house built by Mr.
Alongi, and it did provide dedication to the 38 foot right-of-
way.
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 7, 1988
Page 6
GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 88-3 = GEORGE ALONGI CONTINUED
Chairman Mellinger stated that he had the same concerns as Com-
missioner Brown, but thinks that with the residential development
between Lakeshore along Chaney that pretty much eliminates the
reality of an Arterial.
Chairman Mellinger stated that perhaps there is a need to retain
the right-of-way along strickland for the industrial to the __
northeast. However, the constraints of the outflow channel would
certainly eliminate any need--if the outflow channel were not
there, I would have a problem with this.
Chairman Mellinger stated that the
something that should be mentioned. As
no parking alternative is the best
elimination or turn pockets.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-16, approval of General
Plan Amendment 88-3, based on the Findings listed in the Staff
Report, and adoption of Resolution No. 88-3, entitled as follows:
no parking alternative is
Mr. Manee indicated, the
as opposed to sidewalk
RESOLUTION NO. 88-3
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY
OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA, RECOMMENDING ADOPTION
OF GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 88-3, RELATING TO A
CHANGE IN DESIGNATION FOR CHANEY STREET BETWEEN
POTTERY AND FLINT STREETS FROM MAJOR TO MODIFIED
SECONDARY AND CHANGING THE DESIGNATION OF
STRICKLAND FROM COLLECTOR TO A SIXTY FOOT (60')
RIGHT-OF-WAY.
--
Second by Commissioner Brown.
Approved 3-0
4. ZONE CHANGE 88-3 - CENTURY AMERICAN CORPORATION - CONSIDERED WITH
PUBLIC HEARING NUMBER 2.
5.
Amendment
presented
Municipal
Maps.
88-6 City of Lake Elsinore - Senior Planner Libiez
proposal to amend Title 16 of the Lake Elsinore
Code adding Chapter 16.25 related to Vesting Tentative
Commissioner Brinley asked if they would have a longer time in
which to record the map with this new vesting procedure.
Senior Planner Libiez stated not necessarily. Basically, the law
today, a final map has to be approved within two years and
subsequently recorded within that two year period. However, you
are allowed a maximum of three extensions not to exceed one year
each, which would grant you a period of up to five years for that
map. The Vesting Map also has the same period of time in which
to go through extensions and to be recorded. The difference is,
once recorded, the developmental rights are placed with the map.
Chairman Mellinger opened the pUblic hearing at 7:53 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Amendment 88-6. Receiving
no response, Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak
in opposition. Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger asked
if anyone wished to speak on the matter. Receiving no response,
Chairman Mellinger closed the pUblic hearing at 7:53 p.m.
Commissioner Brown asked about tying the Vested Map to additional
development agreements.
....
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 7, 1988
Page 7
AMENDMENT 88-6 = CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE CONTINUED
-
Senior Planner
tion of approval,
be entered into.
without a map.
Libiez stated that you could require as a condi-
of a vesting map, that a development agreement
The development agreement could also be struck
commissioner Brinley asked how the fees are going to be decided;
if there will be a set fee or if they are going to vary.
Commissioner Brown stated that, traditionally, what happens is
that the entity attempts to project costs over x-amount of years,
and given the protection to the developer they will take a fee in
lieu of those projected increases.
Community Development Director Miller stated that there are two
types of fees associated with maps. First, there is the
processing fee, processing the application through Planning
commission and City Council. After the tentative map is
approved, there is a processing fee for plan checking the map
through Engineering. The other type of fee, that Commissioner
Brown is eluding to, is a fee associated with the development or
improvement of the subdivision.
-
Chairman Mellinger stated that he thinks that the items that have
to be submitted are appropriate, and there should be some sort of
citation as to who determines the adequacy of the items under
16.25.060.b., thinks this should be the Community Development
Director and the City Engineer.
Chairman Mellinger commented on Section l6.25.060.b.12, asking if
grading standards would be under the Municipal Code or the Zoning
Ordinance.
Community Development Director Miller stated that grading is
under the Municipal Code, contained within the building title.
Chairman Mellinger commented on Section 16.25.090.b.1, thinks the
word "immediate" should be deleted.
Community Development Director Miller stated that some of the
commonly used terminology, if you wanted to insert that, is "to
the neighborhood and community".
Chairman Mellinger recommended that this verbiage "to the
neighborhood and community" be added to Section 16.25.090.b.1.
Motion by Chairman Mellinger to recommend to City
approval of Amendment 88-6 based on the Findings listed
Staff Report, and with the above mentioned amendments
proposed ordinance, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 3-0
Council
in the
to the
-
At this time, 8:00 p.m., the Planning Commission recessed.
At this time, 8:07 p.m., the Planning commission reconvened.
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Industrial Project 88-1 - Frank Ayres & Son Construction Company
- Associate Planner Last presented proposal to construct two
industrial buildings totaling 27,213 square feet, located on a
2.10 acre site on the north side of Collier Avenue between Chaney
and Third Street.
Chairman Mellinger asked if the paint band is going around the
rear.
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 7, 1988
Page 8
INDUSTRIAL PROJECT 88-1 - FRANK AYRES i SON CONSTRUCTION COMPANY
CONTINUED
Associate Planner Last responded in the affirmative.
Chairman Mellinger asked if the applicant was present and if he
had any concerns.
Mr. Bruce Ayres, commented on condition number 23, asking if the __
parcel merger would hold up the process for building permits,
since you can not have openings on the property line
Chairman Mellinger stated that the parcel merger is a very simple
process.
Mr. Ayres questioned condition number 38, pertaining to street
improvements, stating that street improvements are already in,
and asked if they had to resubmit street improvement plans.
Chairman Mellinger stated that this would be up to the City
Engineer.
Mr. Ayres questioned condition number 39, pertaining to the
three-foot dedication along Collier Avenue.
Associate Planner Last stated that this three-foot dedication was
based on the 86-foot right-of-way proposal from the proposed
General Plan.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-7 and approval of
Industrial Project 88-1 based on the Findings and subject to the
40 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report, second by __
Chairman Mellinger.
Approved 3-0
2. Landscape Guidelines - City of Lake Elsinore - Associate Planner
Last presented for review and recommend approval to City Council
of the City of Lake Elsinore Guidelines.
Commissioner Brinley commented briefly on the city promoting and
encouraging the use of Xeriscape; landscaping being an asset and
not a liability. In other words, making it affordable and
feasible for these people to maintain, and stated that staff did
an excellent jOb.
Commissioner Brown stated that he wanted to thank staff for all
of their work, really appreciates it.
Chairman Mellinger stated that we are encouraging the
preservation of existing trees. Also, if existing trees are to
be removed that some sort of compensation proposal by the
applicant be made. This should be one of the goals, perhaps it
could be added as one of the informational items.
Community Development Director Miller asked Chairman Mellinger if
he was referring to replacement, when you say compensation.
Chairman Mellinger answered in the affirmative, either a number
of trees or a specimen tree.
--
Chairman Mellinger made the following suggestions:
Page 10. 5.n: The landscape plan plant sYmbols shall reflect
the scale of plant material utilized. I think
that this should probably be at three-years.
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 7, 1988
Page 9
LANDSCAPE GUIDELINES - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE CONTINUED
Page 11.2.c:
screening unslightly elements, such as trans-
formers or equipment is excellent. I think that
to off-set wall masses and other permitted out-
door uses screening permitted outdoor uses should
also be considered.
~
Page 17:
Parking Lots: Where it talks about landscape
strips, it should be exclusive of the overhang
from the cars, most of the plans are drawn with
two-foot overhangs.
One (1) fifteen (15) gallon tree for every ten
(10) parking spaces may be a little low, and
asked if there was any basis for the one per ten.
Community Development Director Miller stated that this reflects
the current code requirement.
Page 17.10.c:
Chairman Mellinger stated that in some cities it is one per four,
and maybe this can be looked into at some future date.
Chairman Mellinger resumed his suggestions:
-----
Page 18.11.b: We are talking about 100% coverage in one year or
sooner. The problem with this is the hydroseed-
ing being done, and if the developer sells out
there is just the homeowner left. I am wondering
if we shouldn't, maybe it doesn't belong in the
Landscape Guidelines, but perhaps it could be put
into the grading ordinance, grading guidelines,
that we get some sort of surety deposit to insure
the landscaping performs, instead of just being
done. If the hydroseeding does not work there
should be some sort of deposit, then if it does
work then we can refund the money and if it
doesn't work then we can use the money.
Commissioner Brown asked if we were not bonding for landscaping
improvements.
Community Development Director Miller stated that, typically,
this has not been the case, at this point in time.
Commissioner Brown stated that this would be an easy way to
address the issue, bond for it.
Chairman Mellinger resumed his suggestions:
Page 20:
The first two trees listed should be eliminated.
The Indian Laurel is really the most frost
tender, and the Carrotwoods are a dangerous tree
after reaching maturity. In my mind, Carrotwood
trees only belong in non-pedestrian areas.
-----
Chairman Mellinger asked if the Commission had any problems with
the suggested changes. The Commissioners at the table stated
that they did not have any problem with the suggested changes.
Motion by Chairman Mellinger to recommend to City Council
approval of the Landscape Guidelines with the above mentioned
suggestions, and to adopt Resolution No. 88-4, entitled as
follows:
RESOLUTION NO. 88-4
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY
OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA, RECOMMENDING ADOPTION
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 7, 1988
Page 10
LANDSCAPE GUIDELINES - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE CONTINUED
OF THE LANDSCAPE GUIDELINES
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 3-0
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
....
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Brown:
Once again, I would like to request that we have a study session with
City Council on various issues, concerns of the new Council
especially.
Community Development Director Miller stated that this was discussed
with Council earlier this evening, this was one priority identified.
Council has acknowledged Planning Commission's desire to have a study
session and is looking at scheduling one in the near future. But
probably waiting until July, when there will be at least one new
Planning Commissioner seated.
commissioner Brinley:
Noticed that the Arco sign has been removed. Asked when it was
removed, and if there was a problem.
Senior Planner
just them being
convince their
exact date, but
Ordinances for
week.
Libiez stated that there was not a problem, it was
convinced that they could get scheduled, and they did
scheduling people to remove it. I don't remember the
we did go out and verify that they did meet all City
the removal, and they did get a final sign-off last
....
Community Development Director Miller stated that as Commissioner
Brinley is aware we have been pursuing this matter for over a year.
Two citations were issued, and the second citation finally motivated
them to take action to remove the sign.
Commissioner Brinley asked if the citations were still standing or if
they have been cleared up.
Community Development Director Miller stated that we have recommended
to the court that those citations be dismissed.
Chairman Mellinqer:
Nothing to report.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore
Commission adjourned at 8:24 p.m. Motion by Commissioner
second by Commissioner Brown.
Planning
Brinley,
mG.'.!:
Randy Mell~~
Chairman
....
Respectfully submitted,
Linda Grindstaff
Planning Commission
Secretary
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
21ST
DAY
OF
JUNE
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Kelley.
ROLL CALL:
-
PRESENT: Commissioners:
Kelley, Brinley, Brown and Mellinger
ABSENT:
commissioners:
None
Also present were Senior Planner Libiez and Associate Planner Magee.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brown to approve minutes of June 7, 1988, as
submitted, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 3-0 Commissioner Kelley abstaining
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Mr. Robert Boxer, 942
churches being allowed to
zoning Districts.
Barbara Way, Lake Elsinore, commented on
located within Commercial Manufacturing
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Zone Change 88-2 - Neil M. Cleveland - Associate Planner Magee
presented a request to change the zoning from RRO and SPO (former
County designation) to C-2 (General Commercial). 21.71 acres,
bounded by Central, Dexter and Camber Avenue, west of Crane
Street.
-
Chairman Mellinger opened the public hearing at 7:08 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone Change 88-2.
Mr. Neil Cleveland stated that he concurs with staff recommen-
dation, and would answer any questions.
Chairman Mellinger stated, for the record, that he met with Mr.
Cleveland, at an earlier stage, and discussed this proposal.
Chairman Mellinger asked if there was anyone else wishing to
speak in favor of Zone Change 88-2. Receiving no response,
Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Mellinger asked if anyone wished
to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman
Mellinger closed the public hearing at 7:09 p.m.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he is glad that they came back
with a site plan, conceptual plan.
commissioner Brinley stated that she has no problem with the
proposal, at this point.
commissioner Brown stated that he has no problem with the pro-
posal.
Chairman Mellinger stated that he does not have a concern with
the zone change, it is more than appropriate. The Environ-
mental Assessment probably should have looked at some intensive
types of commercial uses, however, in discussion with the
applicant, I did indicate that there would be a need for traffic
improvements, signalization and so on.
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-12 and approval of Zone
Change 88-2 based on the Findings listed in the Staff Report,
second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 21, 1988
Page 2
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Industrial Project 86-2 Amendment #1 - O. T. Equities - Associate
Planner Magee presented a request to amend Design Review approval
of Industrial Project 86-2 to revise building locations of six
(6) buildings totaling 22,291 square feet. 1.51 acres, located
on the east side of Birch Street, south of Minthorn Street in the
Warm Springs Business Park.
Mr. Jim Thompson, applicant, stated that first of all the entire __
property has been broken up through a tentative map that creates
individual ownership of each of these properties served by
easement access, and the easement also flows through the adjacent
property to the north. One of the problems that we have with
sliding gates between these properties is these properties are
legally individual properties and not for the benefit of the
public, and these storage yard areas are for the benefit of a
particular building. I can see some future policing problems.
Mr. Thompson commented on staff's recommendation for striping all
the way around the buildings. The reason that stripes are not
shown is that these two buildings, referring to the rendering
posted, abut each other and suggested that where a building abuts
an adjacent building it is not necessary or feasible to have
striping, but where the buildings are in plain view striping will
be provided.
Mr. Thompson commented on the fire sprinkler requirement, condi-
tion number 6 and number 33, requesting that these conditions be
changed to say "if required by the County Fire Department".
Chairman Mellinger asked staff if these conditions came from the
County Fire Department or if these were added by staff.
--
Associate Planner Magee stated that this particular project was
not circulated to the County Fire Department because it was an
amendment. These are similar conditions to those on the last
amendment to an industrial project reviewed by the Commission, so
staff incorporated the same conditions.
Mr. Thompson stated that it was his understanding that a building
less than 3,500 square feet of warehouse area is not required to
have a sprinkler system. I would say that buildings number 1, 2,
5 and 6 would probably be required to have sprinkler systems and
buildings 3 and 4, which are only 3,200 square feet total, would
not. If it is required I will put it in.
Commissioner Mellinger commented on the sliding
asking if the parking lot is full how do you turn
there an area to do this, or do you have to back out?
gate issue,
around, is
Associate Planner Magee stated that staff's proposal was to have
gates all the around, just like the industrial project directly
across the street, so that you could maintain through access.
Chairman Mellinger stated that otherwise you would l_ose a park-
ing space for a turn around space, which might result in l.osing
floor area. You would have to meet the minimum parking require-
ments, I do not know if this is the minimum or not, but there
should be a turn around area, if those gates are to be closed.
-
Mr. Thompson stated that he believes they have met the legal
requirements of parking, on the exterior of the fence.
Chairman Mellinger suggested the elimination of a parking space
and striped it for no parking and have it for turn around space.
Associate Planner Magee stated that he believes that on buildings
1, 2, 5, and 6 the applicant is right at the limit.
,------------
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 21, 1988
Page 3
INDUSTRIAL PROJECT 86-2 AMENDMENT il ~ O.T. EOUITIES CONTINUED
Mr. Thompson commented on condition number 24, pertaining to the
requirement of a grease trap, and stated that he does not know
what this means.
-
commissioner Brown explained the intent of grease traps, and
informed Mr. Thompson that specifications for grease traps could
be obtained from the Engineering Department.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she agrees with staff on the
sliding gate issue.
commissioner Brinley commented on condition number 10, pertaining
to food service uses to be permitted in this building must meet
required parking, and asked Mr. Thompson if there were any plans
to have a restaurant use located within the complex.
-
Mr. Thompson responded in the negative.
commissioner Brinley stated that if this should come back for
such a use, could we put in the conditions that it would be take
out only, no seating.
senior Planner Libiez stated that he believed that the Commission
would want to review the particular application at the time it is
proposed.
Commissioner Kelley asked if the landscaping plan, which was part
part of Industrial Project 86-2, would carryover to Amendment
Number 1.
Associate Planner Magee stated that the landscape plan for
Industrial Project 86-2 was reviewed by the City's Landscape
Architect and approved as submitted. The applicant has prepared
a separate landscape plan for Phase II, Amendment Number 1.
Chairman Mellinger asked if the storage areas were visible from
Birch street or any other street.
Associate Planner Magee responded in the negative.
commissioner Mellinger asked if staff was just requiring redwood
or cedar slats in the chain link.
senior Planner Libiez responded in the affirmative.
Chairman Mellinger commented on condition number 23, suggesting
that the word "may" be changed to "shall".
Commissioner Brown suggested verbiage "where fencing is required"
be added to the second sentence of condition number 23.
-
Motion by Commissioner Brown to recommend to City Council
approval of Amendment Number 1 of Industrial Project 86-2 based
on the Findings and the 40 Conditions of Approval listed in the
Staff Report with the following amendments:
Condition No. 20: "A revised set of rear elevations shall
be submitted for all six (6) buildings,
exhibiting the same recessed striping
treatments introduced on the front and
side elevations, subject to the
approval of the Community Development
Director. Any buildings that immedi-
ately abut existing buildings will not
have to have recessed striping treat-
ment."
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 21, 1988
Page 4
INDUSTRIAL PROJECT 86-2 AMENDMENT il = O.T. EQUITIES CONTINUED
Condition No. 23: Delete first sentence, which reads:
"Walls and fences may be erected to
create individual storage areas."
Condition No. 33: If required by the County Fire
Department, install a complete fire
sprinkler system in all buildings __
requiring a fire flow of 1500 GPM or
greater The post indicator valve and
fire department connection shall be
located to the front, within 50 feet of
a hydrant, and a minimum of 15 feet
from the building(s). A statement that
the building(s) will be automatically
fire sprinklered must be included on
the title page of the building plans.
Second by Chairman Mellinger with amending condition number 23,
that redwood or cedar slats shall be placed within the chain link
fence as required by ordinance.
Commissioner Brown amended
Mellinger's amendment.
his
motion
to include Chairman
Condition No. 23: "Where fencing is to be provided, red-
wood or cedar slats to be placed within
chain link; however, sliding gates
shall be installed and remain open
during business hours to assure
adequate circulation, subject to the __
approval of the Community Development
Director.
Approved 4-0
IT WAS THE CONSENSUS OF THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER BUSINESS ITEM 2
AND 3 CONCURRENTLY.
Residential Project 88-1 and Street Abandonment 88-1 - Greg Block
- A request to construct a 42 unit apartment complex consisting
of six (6) separate buildings, and abandon a 40 foot segment of
Walnut Street. 2.5 acres on two lots located on Walnut Street
approximately 650 feet west of Riverside Drive.
Motion by Commissioner Brown to continue Residential Project 88-1
and Street Abandonment 88-1 to the meeting of July 19, 1988,
second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
4. Appeal of Conditions - 1301 Heald Avenue - George Alongi - Senior
Planner Libiez presented Mr. Alongi's request to appeal condition
number 16 of Minor Design Review, for the construction of a six-
foot (6') high wood fence.
-
Mr. Alongi presented to the Commission background information on
the above referenced proposal, and stated that the most important
thing is the time element; not so much what the code reads or
what the requirements are today. But, what the requirements were
at the time the original request for both buildings were
requested.
Mr. Alongi referred to the first page of the Conditions of
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 21, 1988
Page 5
APPEAL OF CONDITIONS - 1301 HEALD AVENUE = GEORGE ALONGI CONTINUED
-
Approval for the residence at 1301 Heald, item one states that
Design Review approval will lapse and be void unless building
permits are issued within one year, this was in 1988. However,
the Conditions of Approval were placed in September of 1984, if
the Commission will read that total page, all of the conditions,
they will find that no where is there mention of a time limit.
Mr. Alongi stated that the encroachment permit and the alley
improvements were done at the same time for both houses. The
fire hydrant for 1301 was moved at the time 1303 was being built;
so in essence, what I am saying is that vested rights was clearly
indicated by the improvements being done on that project.
Mr. Alongi stated that the alley is very dangerous because there
is a pole right in the middle, and the alley is only half
improved, which we did. There is no two way traffic on this
alley, traffic coming and going have to use the same side. If we
construct a solid fence along Mohr Street and down the alley,
even recess the fence into the alley, that alley and street is
completely blocked from that garage, and it also blocks the view
of the house next door.
Discussion ensued on the pole located in the alley, whether or
not it was located within a public right-of-way or on private
property, and who improved the property adjacent to the pole.
Mr. Alongi stated that he was not against the solid fencing, what
I do not like and think that the City should get involved in is
looking at a project. Because, infill lots, every lot on an
infill has its own problems, especially, when you are talking
about solid fencing; so what is happening here is that this man
backing out of his driveway, a 55 foot driveway, has no chance to
see anyone coming down the alley from either direction.
Mr. Alongi stated that his whole case is, there was no time limit
on the first go around, and on the second go around there should
not be a time limit either.
Chairman Mellinger stated that if there were a time limit then it
would require a variance or code amendment.
Mr. Alongi responded not really, because we did not have a fence
ordinance at that time.
Chairman Mellinger stated that if there were a time limit it
lapses, and thinks that further research is need before we make a
decision.
-
Senior Planner Libiez stated that the building permit was not
exercised in a timely manner. The indication is even if the
zoning code, at that particular time, did not incorporate a one
year limitation on the conditions of approval of the project; in
essence, vested rights had not started because the building
permit had not been secured and issued to the property and
substantial work begun.
Mr. Alongi stated that the delay, to build the house at 1303, was
because of the design of Mohr and Heald, not because of Mr.
Perardi's negligence. When Mr. Perardi came in six months later
we had already gone before the Planning Commission and City
Council on that street. When we came back the second time, in
May, to submit the first house again we could not build the
second house until the street was designed and the building pad
designed to take a house on the corner.
commissioner Kelley stated that he does not agree with Mr. Alongi
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 21, 1988
Page 6
APPEAL OF CONDITIONS - 1301 HEALD AVENUE - GEORGE ALONGI CONTINUED
on the danger of a wooden fence on the corner. My only question
would be the time frame.
Commissioner Brinley stated that her concern is with the time
frame, and asked if there were not any records where Mr. Perardi
requested extensions.
Senior Planner Libiez responded in the negative.
....
Commissioner Brown asked if, several years ago, a permit was
pulled for the house, 1301 Heald.
Senior Planner Libiez responded in the negative.
Commissioner Brown stated that on vested right
protected by extensions of building permits, you
vested rights until you have poured the slab.
Senior Planner Libiez responded that you do not have
rights until you have made substantial progress into the
itself.
you are not
do not have
vested
project
Commissioner Brown stated that he has not seen anything from
1984, where there is a time limit built into any code or
ordinances, and stated that condition number 6 requires that the
applicant meet all applicable city codes; asked if there was
anything in that 1984 time frame, any code, that address this.
Senior Planner Libiez stated that there is a time frame in the
old code for handling Design Review in terms of when decisions
have to be made, not for how long decisions are effective.
Commissioner Brown stated that if there is real concern, whether
or not we are talking, about vested rights we would have to
either defer, deny, or continue to a future date.
....
Chairman Mellinger stated that he was still under the impression
that there was a time limit for Design Review approvals.
Chairman Mellinger stated that he believes that the infill area
needs an overlay.
Commissioner Brown commented on the safety issue, stating that
the setback on the side yard of a corner lot gives you the extra
setback for fences and structures, within an adequate area, so
that you can see the ingress/egress from a pUblic street.
commissioner Brown commented
feet from the alley, stating
length of one car, 17-22
visibility.
on the length of the driveway, 55
that you could recess the fence the
feet, and have more than adequate
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to deny the appeal, second by Com-
missioner Brown.
Approved 4-0
5. Appeal of Environmental Impact Report Requirement, Tentative
Tract 22904 - Greg Block -
....
Chairman Mellinger stated that the recommendation is to accept
the applicant's request for withdrawal of appeal, presumes that
staff will proceed with the Environmental Impact Report, or has
the project been withdrawn?
Senior Planner Libiez stated that staff is working with the
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 21, 1988
Page 7
APPEAL OF ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REQUIREMENT. TENTATIVE TRACT 22904 -
GREG BLOCK CONTINUED
applicant
additional
and they believe
information which
that they can present us with
may clear up some of the matters.
-
Chairman Mellinger asked how long this application has been in,
stating that you only have 30 days to make that decision.
Senior Planner Libiez that we are revising things, they have come
in with a revised map already, and it is not a formal application
at this point.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to accept withdrawal of appeal of
requirement to prepare Environmental Impact Report, second by
Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
6. Freeway Sign Review - Commercial Project 86-1 and Commercial Pro-
ject 85-2 - Howard palmer/Atlantic Richfield Senior Planner
Libiez presented for review a, 45 foot high by 150 square foot,
freeway identification sign to serve an existing Arco service
center and a proposed restaurant, to be located within a 5 foot
wide easement area abutting Interstate 15 along a portion of the
southeasterly property line of the "Shoppers Square" center,
located at Railroad Canyon Road and Casino Drive (Vista Del
Lago).
-
Chairman Mellinger asked if each parcel would be allowed to have
a freeway sign, referring to the parcelization of the center.
Senior Planner Libiez stated that potentially any parcel that has
the requisite amount of frontage on the freeway--yes.
Chairman Mellinger stated that he has one question, what is an
integrated development? We should not be approving parcel maps
for integrated developments, otherwise we are allowing more
freeway signs. Because in our ordinance it says for integrated
development you get one sign.
Chairman Mellinger stated his impression was that when this
originally came through, this was an integrated center, and the
variance that Sizzler came through with was for height and, at
that time, I was opposed to that. At that time, I had indicated
my concern about the number of signs that could be placed upon
the freeway. In the code, section 17.94.180.I.3., states that
you can have a freeway identification sign for integrated
developments of five or more units with at least 150 feet of
freeway frontage. Again, my concern is that you could have a
number of signs along the freeway.
Senior Planner Libiez commented on section 17.94.180.I.3., stat-
ing that the definition of this is, individual businesses and
integrated developments of five or more units. If an individual
business has a parcel with at least 150 feet of freeway frontage
they can qualify for that.
Chairman Mellinger stated that the reason he would not agree with
the interpretation, is because we intentionally wrote in Section
17.94.180.G, businesses not located in integrated developments of
five or more units. In my mind, this was intended to go for the
center; for centers along the freeway so that there would not be
a number of signs.
.l"'t
Chairman Melli?ger stated that if this is the interpretation of
the code then can understand~ supporting the sign. However, my
concern is that the applicant, at the time and it is still the
same applicant, indicated that there would not be a sign there,
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 21, 1988
Page 8
FREEWAY SIGN REVIEW = COMMERCIAL PROJECT 86-1 AND COMMERCIAL PRO-
JECT 85-2 - HOWARD PALMER/ATLANTIC RICHFIELD CONTINUED
and my interpretation of the code is that it is for the center.
A brief discussion at the table ensued on the number of signs
that could be erected along this freeway frontage, reference to
the number of remaining parcels to the end of Casino Drive.
Mr. Ken Lanz, representing Atlantic Richfield, stated that his
understanding of the situation from the beginning is that Mr.
Palmer received approval for two signs, one for our site and one
for the Bob's Big Boy site.
Chairman Mellinger informed Mr. Lanz that the site plan, sub-
mitted for the center, did not include signs. The site plan did
show a sign and when the Sizzler sign came up I expressed those
concerns and, it was indicated at the time of hearing, the actual
variance request was for the height of the Sizzler sign.
Mr. Lanz stated that if the Commission is talking about dis-
approving the total package, our sign and the Marriott (Allies)
sign, then we would like the opportunity to continue this and do
further research.
...,
Chairman Mellinger stated that if staff would like to research
the records, minutes and interpret the code, and address this in
the staff report, a continuance would be in order.
Chairman Mellinger stated that he would like to see the logic as
to how the two signs were approved, years ago. As a matter of
fact, I would like to see that in relation to the last case we
had, I do not see where it is up, nor is it vested. __
Motion by Chairman Mellinger to continue Freeway Sign Review for
Commercial Project 86-1 and Commercial Project 85-2, with
direction to staff to come back with research--if these signs
were actually approved by City Council, if so this will be taken
into consideration by the Commission, and also an analysis of
what vested rights there are for the sign under the old approval,
second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENT
Nothing to report.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Kellev:
Thanked Chairman Mellinger for his many years on the Commission.
Commented on the church issue, stating that he would like to see a
study session or a solution where we can try and work with them.
....
Commented on the trash accumulating within the Town Center, in front
of Builder's Emporium. I think that we need more trash containers
and have them at closer intervals.
Commissioner Brinlev:
Stated that she has enjoyed working with Chairman Mellinger.
Minutes of Planning Commission
June 21, 1988
Page 9
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
Commissioner Brown:
-
Appreciates all of Chairman Mellinger'S time and effort.
Responded to Commissioner Kelley's comment on the church issue, stat-
ing that he to would like to work this out. I spent a couple of
hours with one of the Directors of Planning for Riverside County. We
discussed this very issue, and my impression of what is happening in
other areas where the County is allowing mixed uses, unrelated uses,
within this type of zoning is not working. The County is working to
redraft their ordinance, not allowing it anYmore because it just does
not work. They were even discussing something that we have discussed
at this table, where in that zoning you would build a building to
allow the mixed zoning.
Noticed that there is a sign at Dexter and Central Avenue about that
property being for lease, and asked if the car wash was not coming
back, or have they not reapplied.
Associate Planner Magee responded that they have indicated to staff
that they will submit building plans within the next week or two.
-
commissioner Brown stated that he believes that there were conditions
of approval placed on that shopping center, before Certificate of
Occupancy is issued or within 30 days of the meeting which the car
wash applied, that the area be landscaped. I noticed that the sign
is full of tenants and it appears there is a great deal of activity,
are they occupying those buildings and open for business?
Associate Planner Magee stated that they are not, and that last week
staff was requested to make a final inspection and a deficiency list
was issued. One of the items on the deficiency list was that the
landscaping on the vacant pad shall be installed as per Commission's
request.
Chairman Mellinqer:
I think that Council is trying to arrange a study session, and staff
may want to put that on the agenda, as far as the temporary church
situation.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning Commis-
sion adjourned at 8:29 p.m. Motion by Commissioner Brinley, second
by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
-
i/:i!/J ~4
Randy Mellinger,
Chairman
Respectfully submitted,
Linda Grindstaff
Planning Commission
Secretary
-
-
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
5TH
DAY
OF
JULY
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Kelley.
INTRODUCTIONS
-- Community Development Director Miller introduced Pamela Brinley, Bill
Saathoff and Al Wilsey as the new Planning Commissioners for the City
of Lake Elsinore.
Vice Chairman Brown welcomed the new Planning Commissioners.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: Commissioners:
Kelley, Brinley, Saathoff, Wilsey and
Brown.
ABSENT: Commissioners:
None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planner Libiez and Associate Planner Magee.
ELECTION OF OFFICERS
Vice Chairman Brown opened nominations for Chairman.
Commissioner Brinley nominated Vice Chairman Brown for Chairman, of
the Planning Commission, second by commissioner Wilsey. There being
no further nominations, vice Chairman Brown was elected Chairman by a
unanimous vote.
-- Chairman Brown opened nominations for Vice Chairman.
commissioner Kelley nominated Commissioner Saathoff for Vice Chair-
man, of the Planning Commission, second by Commissioner Brinley.
There being no further nominations, Commissioner Saathoff was elected
Vice Chairman by a unanimous vote.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to approve minutes of June 21, 1988, as
submitted, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 3-0 Commissioners Saathoff and Wilsey abstaining
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Mr. Kevin Hogan, 358 Avenue 6, Lake Elsinore, commented on the Rail-
road Canyon School site, stating that he is the only property owner
on Avenue 6 on the side of the school. Since they started the
project, about a year and a half ago, I have been incurring damage
due to water run-off. In addition, to what the school has done, the
City is redoing Mill Street and they have placed a culvert across the
street; the problem with this is that it is in alignment with the
center of my house.
-
Chairman Brown stated that we have very little control on what
schools do on their property, it is state property, and asked what
legal recourse we have on off-site drainage.
Community Development Director Miller stated that in response to
Chairman Brown's question and to Mr. Hogan's comments. The school
does have to comply with state building codes; however, rather than
the city being responsible for that the school works through the
State Architect Office. The State is responsible for reviewing their
plans, issuing their permits and doing their inspections. In terms
of the off-site improvements, the School District is undertaking
those improvements to Mill street to provide access to their school.
Again, the School District is the responsible agency for both the
Minutes of Planning Commission
July 5, 1988
Page 2
PUBLIC COMMENTS CONTINUED
on-site construction of the school and the off-site road
improvements. Certainly, as they do work in the roadway they do work
more closely with the City, and I would encourage Mr. Hogan to
contact our Engineering Department, and we can render assistance.
Chairman Brown asked Mr. Hogan to leave his name, address and tele-
phone number, where he can be reached during the day, stating that __
Community Development Director Miller will call and direct you to the
correct individuals in our City that can at least tell you the
situation.
There being no further requests to address the Commission, Chairman
Brown closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Tentative Parcel Map 23411 Aware Development - Associate
Planner Magee presented a request to divide one (1) existing
parcel into ten (10) parcels varying in size from 20,000 square
feet to 29,398 square feet. 6.25 acres, located on the northwest
corner of Dexter Avenue and Second Street.
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:11 p.m., asking if
anyone wished to speak in favor of Tentative Parcel Map 23411.
Mr. Grant Beckland, representing Aware Development,
the drainage issue, stating that we attempted
existing drainage patterns with what we have
tentative map. There is a culvert and the street
that location where our street is proposed.
direction of the City, we can take it down to the
and put it in the street.
Mr. Beckland then commented on the septic tanks, stating that the
proposal is 20,000 square foot minimum sized lots, and the
expense to run sewer to initially start the project is rather
large. I would like to ask that consideration be given to
allowing septic tanks on these lots.
commented on
to maintain
done on our
does dip in
If it is the
intersection
--
Chairman Brown asked if there was anyone else wishing to speak in
favor of Tentative Parcel Map 23411. Receiving no response,
Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to
speak on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown
closed the public hearing at 7:14 p.m.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he is in agreement with staff
recommendation. Also, feels that sewer service in that area is
appropriate, because of all the problems that we have with septic
systems.
Commissioner Saathoff stated that he was in agreement with staff
recommendation.
commissioner Wilsey stated that he was in agreement with staff
recommendation. __
commissioner Brinley stated that she was in agreement with staff
recommendation, and commented on Elsinore Valley Municipal Water
District comments, asking for the GPM (Gallons Per Minute).
Associate Planner Magee stated that this was left open, referring
to Exhibit "I" in the Staff Report, and it would also require
some Fire Department input as well.
Commissioner Brinley asked if they wanted to reduce their GPM
Minutes of Planning Commission
July 5, 1988
Page 3
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23411 = AWARE DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
couldn't they use different construction; instead of framing use
stucco, masonry and tile.
-
community Development Director Miller stated that as Associate
Planner Magee has indicated the Fire Department is really the
most critical entity in looking at water pressures and flows,
because of the high demand they would place on the water system.
They do have certain minimums, and they do make certain adjust-
ments for that depending upon the type of construction and
whether the building has fire sprinklers or not. However, there
usually is a certain minimum, typically 1,500 gallons per minute
in place for fire flows.
Chairman Brown stated that he was in total agreement for sewer.
Chairman Brown stated that he would like to go over the drainage
issue, asking if this drains through the facility that goes under
the freeway and then ultimately across Collier.
Associate Planner Magee stated that this drains through the
Wasson Canyon underpass and down the Temescal Wash.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-6 and approval of Tenta-
tive Parcel Map 23411 based on the Findings and subject to the 28
Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report, second by
Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
-
BUSINESS ITEMS
1.
Freeway Sign
Project 85-2
stated that
continued to
Review, Commercial Project 86-1 and Commercial
- Howard Palmer/Atlantic Richfield - Chairman Brown
the applicant has requested that this item be
the meeting of July 19, 1988.
2.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to continue Freeway Sign Review
for Commercial Project 86-1 and Commercial Project 85-2 to the
meeting of July 19, 1988, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
Sign Program for Commercial Project 87-2 Harold Walker -
Associate Planner Magee presented for approval the Master Sign
Program for Commercial Project 87-2 in accordance with Design
Review Condition Number 9. The project site is 0.96 acres,
located on the south side of Campbell Street approximately 230
feet west of Mission Trail.
-
Mr. Harold Walker stated that he has a problem with staff recom-
mendation in regards to the Big "0" sign and logo stating, that
if he understand staff, the eighteen inch (18") upper case
letters staff recommended would be acceptable for the tires and
the big in the Big "0". However, we requested a twenty-four inch
(24") "0", so the only difference between what we want and staff
would be the two (2) twenty-four inch (24") "0". We are very
empathic about that because it preserves the integrity of the Big
"0" logo.
Mr. Walker stated that he has a problem with staff recommenda-
tion on the six inch (6") letters for signs over the bay doors.
The bay doors are thirteen-feet (13') high and twenty-two feet
(22') wide, and the six inch (6") letters would be fourteen feet
(14') high, and in some cases 200 feet from the street. I think
it would be barely visible and also completely out of proportion
to the building. I think what you would be doing is eliminating
any signs over the bay doors.
Minutes of Planning Commission
July 5, 1988
Page 4
SIGN PROGRAM FOR COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-2 ~ HAROLD WALKER CONTINUED
Mr. Walker stated that the last thing that they would request is
black trim in lieu of the redwood color staff recommended.
commissioner Kelley commented on the Big "0", stating the
twenty-four inches (24") would only add three inches (3") on the
bottom and top, this really does not bother me. The six inch
(6") lettering over the doors is appropriate, thinks this can be
seen from a fair distance. Also, likes staff's recommendation
for the redwood.
-
commissioner Saathoff stated that he assumes that the redwood has
to do with Design Review and adheres to the color scheme.
Associate Planner Magee stated that the reason staff chose
redwood is on two previous projects, Railroad Canyon Plaza and
Central Plaza, both projects exhibit red tile roofs with white
stucco and have the same can sign lettering as this project is
proposing. Both utilize redwood sign cans and both projects
turned out fairly nice, that is why staff decided to recommended
this particular color.
Commissioner Saathoff stated that it is an automotive center and
cars are going to be coming into the parking lot and thinks the
six inch (6") lettering would be adequate; has no problem with
allowing the Big "0" to go twenty-four inches (24").
commissioner Wilsey stated that in regards to the Big "0", the
twenty-four inch (24"), assumes this conforms to their national
advertising campaign, asking Mr. Beckland if this was correct.
Mr. Beckland responded in the affirmative.
Commissioner Wilsey stated that he does not have much of a
problem with the ten inch (10") letters that the applicant has
requested. There is a large facade area, referring to the
rendering posted, and with the style of the facade the six inch
(6") lettering might look a little dwarfed in that area, whereas
the ten-inch (10") lettering might look a little better.
--
Commissioner Brinley stated that she has no problem with allowing
the Big "0" to go twenty-four inches (24"), and likes the six-
inch (6") lettering. Asked why a center sign was not proposed
for the center.
Associate Planner Magee stated that the current Code would not
permit a center identification sign in this area. The Code
allows for center identification signs when you have five (5) or
more units. This project was conditioned to have no more than
four (4) units. Staff has had several meetings with Mr. Walker
and suggested that perhaps a Code Amendment might be appropriate
in this matter. However, Mr. Walker has yet to apply for such an
amendment.
Chairman Brown stated that he would like to see this come back as
a Code Amendment. The configuration of the center really lends
itself better to a center sign, with the logos included, and --
small identification signs on the buildings. I think that was
the purpose of trying to eliminate the large logos in the facade
area. We wanted them to be addressed with architectural enhance-
ments not letter enhancements.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve the Sign Program for
Commercial Project 87-2 subject to the Findings and the Condi-
tion of Approval listed in the Staff Report, second by Commis-
sioner Kelley with the addition of the twenty-four inch (24")
"0".
Minutes of Planning commission
July 5, 1988
Page 5
SIGN PROGRAM FOR COMMERCIAL PROJECT 87-2 - HAROLD WALKER CONTINUED
-
commissioner Brinley amended her motion to include Commissioner
Kelley's amendment:
I.e. "The section of the plan which allows the use of
established logos shall be amended to include:
Any logos shall be required to meet all the
standards contained within this criteria,
including maximum sign area. Except for the Big
"0", which shall be allowed to have a
twenty-four inch (24") "0"."
Approved 4-1 (Chairman Brown opposed)
3. Commercial Project 87-5 Brookstone Investors Associate
Planner Magee presented applicant's request for waiver of a
Condition of Approval, condition number 18, for Commercial
Project 87-5. 2.19 acres located on the southeast corner of
Central Avenue and Dexter Avenue.
Mr. Steve Brown, representing Brookstone Investors, stated that
they feel that Mobil oil will be submitting their construction
documents within the next two to three weeks. I believe that we
will be under construction, on that site, within two months. It
seems to be a waste of money to go out and hydro seed and install
the irrigation, before it turns green we would be out there
ripping it out.
As all Commissioners were in agreement with staff recommendation,
- Chairman Brown asked for a motion.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to grant a delay in implementa-
tion of condition number 18 of the Conditions of Approval for
Commercial Project 87-5, subject to the three (3) Conditions of
Approval listed in the Staff Report, second by Commissioner
Kelley.
Approved 5-0
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Introduced Planning Staff for the benefit of the new Planning Commis-
sioners.
The City Council has appointed a subcommittee to review Title 17.
Councilman Starkey and Councilman Buck represent the Council and
Chairman Brown represents the Commission. Asked if there was another
volunteer from the Planning Commission to serve on this committee.
We are meeting Thursday mornings at 8:00 a.m.
Commissioner Kelley stated that if the time were changed he would
volunteer.
-
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Wilsey:
Nothing to report.
commissioner Saathoff:
Pleased to see that the Planning Department is getting some Planners.
Commissioner Brinley:
Nothing to report.
Minutes of Planning Commission
July 5, 1988
Page 6
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
commissioner Kelley
Glad to have a full Commission.
Chairman Brown:
Thanked everyone in the City, residents and especially City Staff, __
for a very pleasant and safe weekend.
There being no further business, the
Commission adjourned at 7:39 p.m. Motion
second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
Lake Elsinore
by Commissioner
Approved,
If
Jeff Bro~!
Chairman
'7 .
R~~!.i~tfUl~ SUb._~~:t...ed,
0T,tdd/ ~
Linda Grindstaff
Planning Commission
Secretary
Planning
Kelley,
-
--
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
19TH
DAY
OF
JULY
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Wilsey.
ROLL CALL:
--
PRESENT: Commissioners:
Kelley, Brinley, Saathoff, Wilsey and
Brown.
ABSENT:
commissioners:
None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planner Libiez and Associate Planner Last.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve minutes of July 5,1988, as
submitted, second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 5-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Mr. Kevin Hogan,
Railroad Canyon
informed that
give him points
358 Avenue 6, Lake Elsinore, commented on
School site stating that two weeks ago he
a staff member would contact him and if nothing
of contact. I have not been contacted by staff.
the
was
else
Mr. Hogan reiterated his concerns about the Railroad Canyon School
site and the damage he has incurred due to water run-off.
Mr. Hogan stated that if need be he would request that this be placed
-- on the agenda for the next meeting.
Chairman Brown asked staff if anyone attempted to contact Mr. Hogan.
Community Development Director Miller stated that Mr. Hogan's name
address and telephone number was given to the Director of Public
Services and he had indicated that he would contact Mr. Hogan,
however, I do not know the results.
Chairman Brown stated that he would appreciate an attempt to rein-
force this with Engineering, and would like a brief scenario of the
current project, drainage easements, that might exist, and proposed
drainage plan for the school site.
Commissioner Brinley asked Mr. Hogan about the memorandum stating
that his house should never have been built where it was, and if he
had any proof of this, documentation.
Mr. Hogan responded in the negative.
Commissioner Brinley requested that staff research this; see if there
was a stipulation that this house should not have been built.
Community Development Director Miller stated that he would look into
this, but we are certainly not aware of anything at this time.
There being no further requests to address the Commission, Chairman
Brown closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Zone Change 88-5 - Leonard F. Davidson (Lee E. Ennen) - Associate
Planner Last presented a request to change the zoning from R-3
(High Density Residential) to C-P (Commercial Park) in order to
bring the zoning into conformance with the General Plan Land Use
designation of Tourist Commercial. .33 acres, located on the
south side of Joy Street approximately 150 feet from Riverside
Drive.
Minutes of Planning Commission
July 19, 1988
Page 2
ZONE CHANGE 88-5 - LEONARD ~ DAVIDSON (LEE ~ ENNEN) CONTINUED
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:10 p.m., aSking if
anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone Change 88-5.
Mr. Leonard F. Davidson, representing the property owner, spoke
in favor of the proposal.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor of
Zone Change 88-5. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked if
anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no response,
Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter.
Receiving no response, Chairman Brown closed the public hearing
at 7:11 p.m.
-
There being no discussion at the table, Chairman Brown called for
a motion.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-20 and approval of Zone
Change 88-5 based on the Findings listed in the Staff Report,
second by Commissioner Saathoff.
Approved 5-0
2. Zone Change 88-6 Leonard F. Davidson ((R. David Bulen) -
Associate Planner Last presented a request to change the zoning
from R-3 (High Density Residential) to C-P (Commercial Park) in
order to bring the zoning into conformance with the General Plan
Land Use designation of Tourist Commercial. .34 acres, located
on the east side of Illinois Street approximately 106 feet south
of Lakeshore Drive.
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:12 p.m., asking if
anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone Change 88-6.
Mr. Leonard F. Davidson, representing the property owner, spoke
in favor of the proposal.
-
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor of
Zone Change 88-6. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked if
anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no response,
Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter.
Receiving no response, Chairman Brown closed the public hearing
at 7:13 p.m.
There being no discussion at the table, Chairman Brown called for
a motion.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-23 and approval of Zone
Change 88-6 based on the Findings listed in the Staff Report,
second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
BUSINESS ITEMS
It was the consensus of the Planning Commission to consider BUSINESS
ITEM 1 AND 2 concurrently.
Residential Project 88-1 and Street Abandonment 88-1 - Greg Block
Senior Planner Libiez presented applicant's request for
continuance of these items to the meeting of August 2, 1988.
-
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to
88-1 and Street Abandonment 88-1 to
1988, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
continue Residential Project
the meeting of August 2,
Minutes of Planning Commission
July 19, 1988
Page 3
-
3. Freeway Sign Review, Commercial Project 86-1 and Commercial Pro-
ject 85-2 - Howard Palmer/Atlantic Richfield - Senior Planner
Libiez presented for review freeway identification sign, 45 feet
high 150 square feet of total display area to serve an existing
Arco' service center and a proposed restaurant. within a 5-foot
easement area abutting Interstate 15 along a portion of the
southeasterly property line of the "Shoppers Square" Center
generally located at Railroad Canyon Road and Casino Drive (Vista
Del Lago).
Mr. Howard Palmer, owner of Shoppers Square, 295 Railroad Canyon
Road, Lake Elsinore, gave a brief background report on the signs
requested for the center.
Mr. Palmer commented on condition number 8, requesting that the
verbiage "said sign shall be in lieu of any additional freeway
signage for uses and parcels" not be included. The approved site
plan showed a position for Goodyear as a monument sign. At the
time we got the approval, I think the signs were only 15-20 feet
high, and we told Goodyear that they could put in a monument sign
rather than a freeway orientation sign of 45-feet.
Mr. Palmer stated that he has with him two representatives from
Arco that would answer any technical questions the Commission may
have.
Chairman Brown asked for discussion at the table.
-
commissioner Saathoff stated that he has concern with 45-foot
high signs, and feels there is some vagueness in Title 17 in
reference to freeway signage and the number of signs permitted.
commissioner Saathoff stated that he
request at this time, as far as I can
under the new Title 17 regulations.
feels that Mr. Palmer's
determine, is acceptable
Commissioner Saathoff commented on Mr. Palmer's request to elimi-
nate the verbiage from condition number 8, stating that Mr.
Palmer indicated that there might be a monument sign requested by
Goodyear and that, in fact, was in the original request. Asked
staff if this monument sign could conceivably fall under the
freeway signage criteria and, rather than a monument sign,
Goodyear could go to Mr. Palmer and say we want a 45-foot sign,
is that possible?
Senior Planner Libiez stated that they have the ability to do
that as the frontage on the freeway ramp system that they do
have, however, the intent of the condition is to preclude any
more freeway oriented signs.
-
commissioner Saathoff stated that he just wanted to make this
clear that there would be no freeway signage, and probably would
not have a problem with the monument sign.
commissioner Wilsey stated that generally he would concur with
Commissioner Saathoff. Would be concerned with the large freeway
signage, the monument signage is acceptable.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he thinks that Commissioner
Saathoff stated it quite well, and since we do have an existing
commitment for the sign I am willing to go along with this.
However, would like Title 17 changed somehow, so that we do not
have a lot of these come in front of us.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she concurs with Commissioner
Saathoff, does not like 45-foot high signs, nor a row of signs
going down the freeway. I do not have a problem with the
monument sign. If we are going to use this as a precedence, we
Minutes of Planning Commission
July 19, 1988
Page 4
FREEWAY SIGN REVIEW. COMMERCIAL PROJECT 86-1 k COMMERCIAL PROJECT
85-2 = HOWARD PALMER/ATLANTIC RICHFIELD
should set it to allow only one sign and the rest would be
monument signs, so that we do not end up with a row of freeway
signs.
Chairman Brown questioned condition number 5, pertaining to the
verbiage "abutting grade".
-
A brief discussion was held at the table on condition number 5,
with Commissioner Saathoff suggesting that the word "abutting" be
changed to "existing".
There being no further discussion at the table, Chairman Brown
called for a motion.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to approve the Freeway Sign
Review for Commercial Project 86-1 and Commercial Project 85-2
based on the Findings and the 12 Conditions of Approval listed in
the Staff Report, condition number 8 to stand as recommended by
staff, and condition number 5 amended to read, as follows:
Condition No.5:
"The total height of the combined sign
shall not exceed 45 feet (45') as measured
from existing grade to top of upper most
sign or sign column."
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
4. Commercial Project 88-10 - Winston Tire - Associate Planner Last
presented a proposal to construct a 20,800 square foot commercial
building a part of Phase II of the Winston Plaza. 1.57 acres,
located between Casino Drive (Vista Del Lago) and Mission Trail
approximately 1,000 feet east of Railroad Canyon Road.
Mr. Jack Hunter, representing winston Tire, stated that he had a
concern on condition number 21, pertaining to the wrought iron
fencing along Casino Drive behind the project, and requested that
they be allowed to install chain link fencing for continuity.
-
Mr. Hunter requested clarification on the following conditions:
Conditions 49, contribute pro-rata share for design and
construction of median on Mission Trail, asked if this was
done by posting a bond or when the work is done do we pay
our share?
Senior Planner Libiez informed Mr. Hunter that they would have to
design in cooperation with the City Engineer and Traffic Safety
Engineer the median with turn pockets; do some of the design and
pay the cost, at the time it goes in you would be required to pay
your fair share. That might be able to be bonded as part of the
street improvement package at the time of construction of the
center. __
Condition number 50, contribute pro-rata share to City
Master Entryway Signage Program, share to be determined by
the City Engineer, asked if there is a dollar amount--what
figure are we looking at?
Senior Planner Libiez responded that as soon as the City Engineer
determines it we will be able to give you that figure. We do not
anticipate that it will be a very significant amount, but this is
one of the fees that the City has been working with as part of
Minutes of Planning Commission
July 19, 1988
Page 5
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-10 = WINSTON TIRE CONTINUED
~
that Entry Master Program to decipher the final fee level, of
course, the more people who participate the lesser the amount.
Commissioner Saathoff stated that he has been fighting this
verbiage for years, referring to condition number 50, and cannot
accept the fact that we are asking people to grant an open check.
I feel that we need to put some sort of limit on this--there has
to be a cap.
Condition number 51, contribute $5,000 deposit toward
widening of San Jacinto River Bridge at Lakeshore Drive,
if funded from another source deposit will be refunded.
What other source--is this something that might happen or
can we just say that this $5,000 is going toward that?
Associate Planner Last responded that he believes the other
source refers to either Federal or state funding, or the
potential of a developer developing that immediate vicinity.
Senior Planner Libiez stated that the bridge is on public
property and, at the ~resent time, it is my understanding that
the City Engineer 1S exploring some grants for the bridge
replacement right now and, of course, if other kinds of things
and special grants can be obtained then these types of fees would
not have to be levied against all of the development, or at least
it could be significantly reduced, and I believe that is what
they are working on.
Mr. Hunter stated that assuming we have paid the $5,000 and built
the building and you get funds from the Federal, would we, years
down the road, get that money back or would that be kept by the
private party to develop the property?
Senior Planner Libiez stated that the way the condition reads,
once the building permit is issued the fee is retained.
Commissioner Saathoff stated that he is still concerned with
conditions 49, 50 and 51. I am assuming that there have been
other major developers that the same verbiage has been
acceptable, deposit of $5,000 for widening of the bridge, without
any time limit for the return of the deposit. Asked if condition
number 50 is new, or is something that has been in existence.
~
Senior Planner Libiez stated that the condition has been
reapplied. It was a program originally passed some time ago and
fell by the wayside and then was reimplemented last year because
it is an effective way to--at major intersections like Highway
74, 15 and Railroad Canyon the major entries, promote the city.
Commissioner Saathoff asked if
condition number 50, is also
against other developers.
the median along Mission Trail,
something that has been levied
~
Senior Planner Libiez responded in the affirmative.
Commissioner Saathoff commented on condition number 21, pertain-
ing to fencing, and the applicant's comment that there is a chain
link fence behind Firestone and asked if this fence is 4' high.
Mr. Hunter responded that the chain link fence behind Firestone
is approximately 3'-3".
Commissioner Saathoff stated then we are requesting a 4' black
wrought iron fence to connect with a 3' chain link fence, and
stated that the 3' chain link fence is really not that great for
safety.
Minutes of Planning Commission
July 19, 1988
Page 6
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-10 = WINSTON TIRE CONTINUED
Senior Planner Libiez stated that the standard in the Building
Code is usually 42 inch guardrail.
Commissioner Brinley asked staff why wrought iron was being
requested, compared to the chain link that is already there.
Associate Planner Last stated that wrought iron was requested for
aesthetic purposes.
Community Development Director Miller stated that chain link has
been discussed on a number of occasions and this is one of the
areas that has previously been brought to the attention of staff
by Council. The chain link at the Firestone Center was one area
where they did not consider it to be as desirable as what they
hoped for in the standards in the community.
Commissioner Brinley asked staff when you are stating that you
want to collect fees/deposits why an explanation can not be put
in the conditions, referring to conditions 49 and 50, as this
would save a lot of time for the applicant, staff and the
Commission.
-...
Commissioner Wilsey stated he was in agreement with establishing
a cap, setting a dollar amount, for conditions 49 and 50.
Commissioner Wilsey commented on condition number 21, pertaining
to the black wrought iron fencing, and asked if there were any
other specifications for this fence.
Associate Planner Last stated that, as conditioned, this will be
addressed at the time of Building Department Plan Check, and the
Building Department will insure that it meets all health and
safety requirements applicable to fencing.
A brief discussion at the table ensued on adding verbiage "meet
health and safety codes for fencing" to condition number 21;
guidelines (standards) for safety fencing and types and quality
of materials for fencing.
....
Commissioner Wilsey commented on condition number 23, pertaining
to alternative retaining wall system, stating that it appears
that there will be a rather sharp and abrupt drop from the
walkway back down to the backside of the building, is this
correct?
Mr. Hunter responded that the off-set from the sidewalk to the
building is about 14 feet, and we have a 2:1 slope, so it is
about 7-8 feet from the sidewalk down to the slope--this is all
fill.
Chairman Brown stated that he was in agreement with establishing
a cap for conditions 49 and 50. Would like to see something out
of the Engineering Department setting a cap, a not to exceed
amount.
Chairman Brown stated that he would like the table to entertain -...
amending condition number 51 to: "Contribute $5,000 deposit
earmarked for the widening of the San Jacinto River Bridge only
at Lakeshore Drive, and if funded from another source within five
(5) years deposit will be refunded".
A brief discussion was held at the table on amending condition
number 51, as recommended by Chairman Brown; the $5,000 deposit,
whether or not the applicant can post a $5,000 bond or if this is
to be a cash deposit.
Minutes of Planning Commission
July 19, 1988
Page 7
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-10 = WINSTON TIRE CONTINUED
-
Motion by Commissioner Kelley
adoption of Negative Declaration
Commercial Project 88-10 based
Conditions of Approval listed in
following amendment:
Condition No. 51: "contribute $5,000 deposit toward the
widening of the San Jacinto River Bridge at
Lakeshore Drive, if funded from another
source within five (5) years deposit will
be refunded".
to recommend to city Council
No. 88-19 and approval of
on the Findings and the 52
the Staff Report, with the
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Commissioner Saathoff asked
verbiage, as stated earlier
San Jacinto River Bridge
condition number 51.
for discussion, inquiring if the
by Chairman Brown, "earmarked for the
only" should not be included in
Commissioner Brinley withdrew her second.
commissioner Kelley amended his motion to amend condition number
51, as follows:
Condition No. 51:
"contribute
the widening
Bridge only
from another
deposit will
$5,000 deposit earmarked for
of the San Jacinto River
at Lakeshore Drive, if funded
source within five (5) years
be refunded".
-
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
5. Sign Program Local Neon Company (Winston Tire) - Associate
Planner Last presented for approval the Master Sign Program,
which includes a center identification sign for the winston
Plaza. 2.85 acres located between Mission Trail and vista Del
Lago (Casino Drive) approximately 900 feet east of Railroad
Canyon Road.
Mr. John McKinney, representing Local Neon, commented on the
monument/pole sign and stated that they have no objection to
reducing it to 24 feet to fit in with the new development, Phase
II.
commissioner Kelley stated that he prefers a monument sign rather
than the large center sign, as the buildings are all visible from
the street.
-
Commissioner Brinley stated that she was in agreement with Com-
missioner Kelley, would prefer to see a monument sign.
Commissioner Brinley asked for the number of signs the center
could have, referring to the Master Sign Program.
Associate Planner Last stated that in past negotiations with
staff the applicant has agreed that one center identification
sign would be all the signage they would be requesting.
Chairman Brown stated that since we are doing on site agreements,
not conditions, would it be appropriate to record those agree-
ments as deed restrictions?
Community Development Director Miller responded that in the past
we have applied a condition that would require that the
Conditions of Approval be recorded on the property, to give
Minutes of Planning Commission
July 19, 1988
Page 8
SIGN PROGRAM = LOCAL NEON (WINSTON TIRE) CONTINUED
notice to future owners. If it is the desire of the Commission,
you could add a condition requesting that these conditions be
recorded on the property to serve notice to any future property
owners.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she would like to see that
added as a condition.
-
Mr. MCKinney stated that he has a problem with the proposed
condition, and asked about a time limit being included in case
the building were torn down and the property sold in the future.
Senior Planner Libiez responded that we c~uld suggest that the
condition read "the center identification sJ.gn be provided as
submitted upon the existing plans so long as the owner of the
Winston Tire Center stays as one and two exist, within the City
of Lake Elsinore". That restricts it only to this development,
if you tear it down obviously that sign is gone.
Motion by
the Winston
Conditions
addition of
Commissioner Saathoff to approve the Sign Program for
Tire center, based on the Findings and the 3
of Approval listed in the Staff Report, and with the
condition number 4 and 5, which will read:
Condition No.4:
"The center identification sign shall be
the only sign permitted within the center."
"Conditions of Approval shall be recorded
on the property to serve notice to any
future property owners, that this approval
is for Winston Tire only".
-
Condition No.5:
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-1 (Commissioner Kelley opposed)
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Community Development Director Miller informed the
City Council has scheduled Tuesday, August 30, 1988,
for a Joint Study Session.
Commission that
at 5:00 p.m.,
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Wilsey
Asked to be kept abreast of the situation with Mr. Hogan and the
Railroad Canyon School site.
Commissioner Kelley
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Brinley
Would like to see staff do what we can to assist Mr. Hogan, point him _
in the right direction or at least help him get the correct
information. I would like to be kept abreast of this situation, and
also have staff check into the memorandum stating that his house
should never have been built where it was.
Commissioner Brinley asked if it was possible for staff to contact
the school district, or the people building the school, and find out
what can be done to resolve this matter.
Community Development Director Miller stated that we would certainly
follow through on that.
Minutes of Planning Commission
July 19, 1988
Page 9
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
commissioner Saathoff
Informed the Commission that he would not be at the next meeting,
-- August 2, 1988.
Would like to spend some time on signage, however, I feel, from some
of the comments made by other Commissioners, that they at least
concur in the philosophy that we would not like to see a lot of
freeway signs. If it is agreeable with the Commission, I would like
to sit down with staff, at some future time, and look over the sign
ordinance.
Chairman Brown
Asked Mr. Hogan if he could get with him after the meeting and get a
telephone number where he can be reached, as he would like to contact
him, to keep abreast of the situation.
Community Development Director Miller asked Commissioner Saathoff if
he would like to get with staff individually or were you interested
in scheduling a study session. Would also like to point out that we
have a committee, formed of two Councilmembers and Chairman Brown,
reviewing Title 17, and signage is one of the areas that we have
identified for further review.
commissioner Brinley stated that she would
session and go over what they would like to
become.
like to
see the
have a study
sign program
--
commissioner Saathoff stated that at first he was going to see
someone individually, because of specific questions and needing
clarification before going any further; with your comments that we do
have a committee working Title 17 and signage is one of the items
identified, and they are aware of some of the inconsistencies, I do
not feel that it is necessary to ask for another study session on
signage.
Community Development Director Miller suggested that a study session
for signage be tagged on the next short agenda, and the Commission
can discuss it or if not it can be deferred to another agenda.
Chairman Brown stated that he would like the Commission to list their
concerns on signage, so that he can take them to the committee
meeting with him.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning Commis-
sion adjourned at 8:13 p.m. Motion by Commissioner Brinley, second
by Commissioner Saathoff.
Approved 5-0
--
Approved,
Resp~ctf~mitted' ..
~Grindstaf~
Planning Commission
Secretary
-
-
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
2ND
DAY
OF
AUGUST
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Kelley.
ROLL CALL:
-
PRESENT: Commissioners: Kelley, Brinley, Saathoff, Wilsey and
Brown.
ABSENT:
commissioners: None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planner Libiez and Associate Planner Magee.
MINUTE ACTION
commissioner Saathoff requested the word "intend" on page 3,
paragraph 9, third line, be corrected to read "intent". with no
further corrections, motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve
minutes of July 19, 1988, as corrected, second by Commissioner
Saathoff.
Approved 5-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Mr. Ken Paulson, 226 East Franklin Street, Lake Elsinore,
commented that he and his wife, Diane, are the owner/applicants
of the project to be discussed later in the meeting as Item 3
under Business Items on the current agenda and he wished to
state that they are in favor of it.
-
Chairman Brown informed Mr. Paulson that he would have an
opportunity to speak at that time if he wished but he would not
be denied to continue speaking at this time.
Mr. Paulson stated he would speak when his project came up.
-
Mr. Kevin Hogan, 358 Avenue 6, Lake Elsinore, thanked
Commissioner Wilsey, Commissioner Brinley and Chairman Brown for
wanting to know what is going on and keeping involved with the
drainage problem at the Railroad Canyon School site. The School
Board has said once again that they are going to fix the damage
but they said that a year and a half ago so that remains to be
seen. As far as the street, he is aware they did go out and
look at the street. Ray O'Donnell of the Engineering Department
and Ken Sears came out last Tuesday and looked at it and said
they would take it back to their director but what concerns him
is that they were saying it is a natural flow of water. Water
may have had a path through there but due to berms that were
placed along the road, presumably by the City since it is a City
street, water never reached the south side of Mills Street. It
was diverted onto the street. The dirt used to have to be
removed after heavy storms and put back in place because it
would flow out into the street. What they did was take an area
about 80 feet wide where water would flow and they reduced it to
a 2-foot culvert that opens up on the south side of the street
pointing right at his house. Mr. O'Neil told him that the
theory behind it was that the water was going to flow to the
cement culvert bordering the rear of his property. He could
accept that except for the fact that water does not flow up hill
and that culvert is up hill. What concerns him the most is that
the contractor from Rosetti Construction, handling the jOb,
addressed the problem with the State engineer and he told him
why don't they route this conduit up to the new culvert they had
just built instead of facing it right at Mr. Hogan's house. A
day later, the engineer came back and said that no they were
going to do it this way.
They have taken 80-foot and squeezed it into 2-foot. There has
been no damage caused yet but he doesn't wish to wait until it
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 2, 1988
Page 2
PUBLIC COMMENTS - CONTINUED
does occur. Mr. Hogan further commented that he has been told
that the director is aware of this problem but he doesn't know
if he will do anything about it, but hopes so. He then further
stated that he had been told the City has no control over what
the school does. Mr. Hogan then read aloud certain sections of
the Zoning Code.
Chairman Brown informed Mr. Hogan that they share his concerns, __
know he has a problem and are attempting to address it. Chair-
man Brown asked him to summarize his concerns.
Mr. Hogan said, in summary, that the concern is not only for his
property. The School Board has done this time and time again
and even if it is not possible under the existing Codes, they
should be doing something to prevent it - lobbying up at the
legislature, combining efforts with other cities that are
inflicted with these problems caused by the school districts.
Something needs to be done. They can't just sit there and say
there is nothing they can do. That is not what this country was
founded on. They have to fight back some way and some how.
Chairman Brown asked staff to get a package together for them on
this situation. The property that is immediately at the opening
of the culvert, does anyone know if the school has purchased
that or is it privately owned?
Community Development Director Miller replied that he believes
it is private property. Mr. Hogan did appear at the Council
meeting last week and this information has been transmitted to
the Engineering Department for their review and response to Mr.
Hogan and City Council specifically asked both the City Attorney
and the City Engineer to respond to Mr. Hogan's concerns and __
also to prepare a report for City Council as well. As soon as
they receive that material, they will transmit it to the
Planning Commission.
Chairman Brown further stated that they would also appreciate,
in the immediate vicinity, the blue line maps from any Flood
Control maps staff may have that might possibly address that
culvert that is definitely on the upstream side.
Community Development Director Miller responded that they would
certainly relay that.
There being no further requests to address the Commission,
Chairman Brown closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Zone Code Amendment 88-7 - City of Lake Elsinore - Senior
Planner Libiez presented proposal for textual amendment to
Chapter 17.44 C-l (Neighborhood Commercial) Zone, and
Chapter 17.48, C-2 (General Commercial) Zone, Lake Elsinore
Municipal Code, adding certain uses, churches, hotels, and
motels, to these zones.
Chairman Brown opened the publi~ hearing at 7:13 p.m.,
asking if anyone wished to speak 1n favor of Zone Code
Amendment 88-7. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked
if anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no
reply, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak on the
matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown closed the
public hearing at 7:14 p.m.
Commissioner Kelley commented that he has no problem with it
and would be in favor of this move. It addresses a major
problem they have had for a year or two.
....
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 2, 1988
Page 3
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-7 - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE - CONTINUED
-
commissioner Saathoff stated he had no objections to the
Amendment but he felt the review of the Conditional Use
Permit should be changed to semi-annual from annual and the
burden of the presentation for the review should be placed
on the applicant. Also, asked staff what the procedure and
time lapse on non-compliance with conditions of a
Conditional Use Permit.
Senior Planner Libiez replied that non-compliance with a
Conditional Use Permit can be treated similar as any other
violation of the Municipal Code. Staff would notify the
offender of the violation of the condition and request
compliance. If compliance is not granted within a
reasonable period of time and the time for the "reasonable
period of time" would depend upon the nature of the
non-compliance, a simple matter might take 10 days to
resolve, but a major engineering problem might take 3 to 4
weeks, then they would proceed with prosecution system. One
way is to request a hearing before the Planning Commission
to revoke the Conditional Use Permit.
--
commissioner Wilsey stated he is in favor of the Amendment
and feels annual reviews are sufficient. He questioned why
the maximum length of time of 3 years for the Conditional
Use Permit, as originally recommended for the C-M Zone, was
changed to two years.
Community Development Director Miller replied that the City
Council felt that two years was sufficient time for this
type of temporary use.
Commissioner Brinley stated her concerns have always been
the uses permitted in the various zones and asked what
current uses were permitted in the C-l Zone.
Community Development Director Miller read the list of
permitted uses from Chapter 17.44 of the Zoning Code.
Commissioner Brinley commented that she would be in favor of
semi-annual reviews because things do change and with a
church situation you have a growing parish and things like
that. Commissioner Brinley asked how many churches could go
in the Center. If the church goes in, then tomorrow how
many more churches could apply for a Conditional Use Permit
and go in the same area. The City would be setting a
precedent that as many churches as wanted to could come in
and take a Conditional Use Permit and go into the same
center.
Community Development Director Miller responded that under
this Amendment, in the C-l and C-2 Zones, it would be on a
case-by-case review basis. There would not be a
restriction on the number stated in the ordinance. Any
number could apply but they would be subject to a
Conditional Use Permit and approval by the Planning
Commission.
commissioner Saathoff commented that parking requirements
would make tremendous restrictions on the number of churches
that could be permitted and would be the greatest limiting
factor.
commissioner Brinley asked about deed restrictions regarding
hours of operation on other businesses for operation on
Sundays.
Community Development Director Miller replied that for C-l
and C-2 there are no specific restrictions suggested for
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 2, 1988
Page 4
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-7 - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE - CONTNUED
those zones. Those would each be subject to the Conditional
Use Permit review process. In terms of the C-M Zone,
because of the additional concerns about the potential
conflicts with manufacturing uses, the additional
restrictions were recommended. In terms of the operational
hours, there was some lengthy discussion at the City Council
meeting regarding the practicality of having a condition of
the Use Permit applying restrictions upon other users. But __
upon the suggestion of the City Attorney, that was changed
to place the restrictions upon the operations of the use
being applied for.
Commissioner Brinley commented that in other words in the
C-l and C-2 Zones, it would be "business as usual;" the
church could move there and the other businesses could open
and run their business at the same time.
Community Development Director Miller answered that the
restrictions would be on the church and not the other users.
Chairman Brown stated his concern is that one of the reasons
the City promotes neighborhood commercial is to service the
local neighborhoods and also to generate and promote revenue
for the City. He understands the churches problems in
having areas to use for their services, but the City is very
careful in what they change in zone to promote business and
now they are going to promote, and this is not a shot at
churches, for a non-tax revenue generating situation. Feels
that is a very poor situation. Chairman Brown's concept is
that if it is that important and the community believes in
it enough, then they should develop part of the C-M Zone as
industrial parks that would be called church parks. __
Chairman Brown further stated he didn't believe in changing
zones, building neighborhood shopping centers and commercial
and then filling them up with churches. Doesn't believe it
is compatible or good for the City; doesn't think in the
long run it will work out with traffic and circulation; and
feels there will be conflicts in uses. Knows that it is
happening now in the County.
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to recommend to City
adoption of Negative Declaration 88-25 and approval
Code Amendment 88-7 subject to the Findings listed
Staff Report, second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 3-2 Commissioner Brinley and Chairman Brown
Council
of Zone
in the
opposed
2. Conditional Use Permit 88-6 Industrial Concepts I-
Community Development Director Miller presented request to
allow the Lutheran Church to occupy 2,775 square feet of a
commercial- manufacturing building, located at 565 Chaney
Street, in the Chaney Street Center.
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:28 p.m.,
asking if anyone wished to speak in favor of Conditional Use
Permit 88-7.
Mr. Steve Brown, representing Industrial Concepts I, stated
they were in total agreement with staff recommendations and
conditions but that he had a question on Condition #6. He
isn't sure how they would implement that. What he would
recommend they do and what he thought was discussed at the
City Council meeting was conditioning the lease so that the
church has operational hours and he thought that was what
the City Attorney said. He needs clarification on that
condition.
--
Mr. Steve Twig, 30920 Plumas, representing the Lutheran
Church, stated he was there to answer any questions the
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 2, 1988
Page 5
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-6 - INDUSTRIAL CONCEPTS X - CONTINUED
Commission might have, specifically regarding the church
operations.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in
favor. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked if
anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no
response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak on
the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown closed
the public hearing at 7:30 p.m.
Discussion was brought to the table. Commissioner Kelley
commented that his views are the same as when it first came
up. He is in favor of it on a temporary basis.
Commissioner Brinley stated her views are still the same and
feels they are going to have a problem and it will prove it
out in time. Commissioner Brinley asked about Condition #6
and asked what term should be applied in place of "record a
grant deed."
Community Development Director Miller replied that Mr. Brown
was correct in indicating that "lease restriction" would be
appropriate within this situation. The wording should be
changed from "record a grant deed restriction" to "include a
lease restriction".
Commissioner Brinley asked about the operational hours at
this point.
Community Development Director Miller replied that the hours
for Sunday, during the week, and evenings are as outlined
within the Environmental Assessment on the next to last
page.
commissioner Brinley asked what were the uses in the C-M
Zone.
community Development Director Miller responded that the
purpose of the C-M District is to provide opportunities for
industrial and commercial activities that combine
characteristics of commercial uses that require large
display and storage areas and then read the list of uses
from Chapter 17.54 of the Zoning Code.
commissioner Brinley then asked if those uses were what this
center was created for up to this point and, after receiving
an affirmative reply, commented that these are what her
concerns are because they are going to have future business
going in there and her concerns stand as she has stated
before.
commissioner Saathoff stated since this is a Conditional Use
Permit for a specific entity, the Lutheran Church, and not
for any other entities, there are a couple changes he would
like to see made in the conditions. Since the church will
be constructing other facilities which will be ready in
about 18 months, would like the Conditional Use Permit to
expire 18 months from the date of approval and would like
verbiage included in Condition #2 that evidence of timely
progress be submitted to the City and, for example, could
put deadlines that perhaps by February 1, permits be pulled,
August 1, building commenced - something like that. The
only reason he is in favor of this, is that he would like to
help the church out but he definitely wants to see evidence
that they, in fact, are doing everything they possibly can
to construct the church and it will be ready in an 18-month
period of time.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 2, 1988
Page 6
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-6 - INDUSTRIAL CONCEPTS I - CONTINUED
Commissioner Saathoff further stated that he thinks
Condition #5 will be very difficult to monitor and would
place a burden on both the City and the applicant. He would
prefer amending Condition #5 with verbiage stating,"The
operational hours will be acceptable as requested in the
Environmental Assessment. Any other special events or
activities shall be permitted during evening hours only,
commencing after 6:00 p.m., and the Police Department shall __
be notified of any events or activities other than those
listed in the Environmental Assessment... Commissioner
Saathoff commented that his reason for having the Police
Department notified is because normally in a manufacturing
and retail area, the normal hours are generally set, there
is a pattern , and when patrol people view these areas, if
there is something going on outside the normal activity
hours, then it alerts them.
Commissioner Wilsey commented that he is very much in favor
of this. Believes this community is in a difficult
situation. We are an old community but a growing one and
must address the concerns with all the new people moving
into this area. We are floundering in the area of churches.
On a short term basis such as this Conditional Use Permit,
he sees no problems.
Chairman Brown stated he would like to make a couple of
comments and ask a few questions. Asked Commissioner
Saathoff, since he is concerned with the Conditional Use
Permit for 18 months, if he didn't believe that Condition #2
really addresses that for this one year and if they are
progressing at that time it will be extended, or would he
rather wait 18 months to find out that they are progressing. __
Commissioner Saathoff replied that the verbiage he would
like to see in there is that they be allowed 18 months and
that on a timely basis they show evidence, for example,
semi-annually by pulling permits or evidence that
construction has started. He wants to see something visible
during that period of 18 months. He didn't feel Condition
#2 said that.
Community Development Director Miller offered the
information that at the City Council meeting, the City
Attorney made several comments regarding this and the same
idea that Commissioner Saathoff is addressing was discussed
at the Council table and the City Attorney opined that we
really need to address our conditions to the use and so
outside conditions, i.e., whether they are progressing or
building or not, are not entirely germaine to the
Conditional Use at hand. The question is whether they are
permitted on a temporary basis or not and, if they are
permitted, the Planning Commission and the City Council,
being that it was appropriate to permit them for a certain
period of time, then must consider that as the issue rather
than whether they were making progress or not. If the
intent of the Commission and Council is to limit it to a
certain amount of time, that is entirely appropriate and the
period of time would be whatever they decide upon, but as to
whether they were making progress is really outside the
purview of the particular use being considered and the City
Attorney did not recommend we place conditions such as that.
If the Commission has a particular concern for a particular
time frame, that is certainly germaine to the issue.
--
Commissioner Saathoff said he would withdraw his comments on
Condition #2 and agree with the expiration within one year
as stated in the Condition.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 2, 1988
Page 7
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-6 - INDUSTRIAL CONCEPTS I - CONTINUED
~
Chairman Brown stated that his question is to the table and
understands their concern with this particular church and
the temporary use and so forth, but what will happen when
the next one comes in next month and they don't have the
money to build a sanctuary but hope to in a year; this time
don't have any plans; don't have any money to do it, but
they'd sure like to start a church in the C-M Zone.
Chairman Brown asked what would be the difference then, if
any.
commissioner Brinley remarked how can you say yes to one and
no to another - that is her concern and what they are doing
in this instance is setting a precedent. In other words
they are saying it is o.k. to come into the C-M Zone on a
temporary basis with a Conditional Use Permit for one year.
As Chairman Brown said, if they don't have the money to
build at the end of the year, then we just give them the
boot.
~
Chairman Brown interjected that according to community
Development Director Miller's earlier explanation of the
City Attorney's opinion, they cannot use the fact that they
mayor may not be building within a year. They just want it
on a temporary use and it is not conditioned upon whether
they would be demonstrating any other ability or desire to
move on to another appropriate area, if he is interpreting
that correctly.
Community Development Director Miller commented that the
relationship of the discussion was that they had originally
suggested three years as the maximum to be allowed and that
to be on a temporary basis without any extension. The
comment at the Council table in talking about the ordinance
change was that they would like to see that more restricted
to a shorter time frame, in this instance 2 years, and they
also wanted to see the annual review so that we could insure
that there were not problems being created and, in essence,
to review that this was remaining a temporary use. The
intent of Condition #2 presented within this Conditional Use
Permit was that the Conditional Use Permit would expire
within one year and that would be all that was permitted
unless the Planning Commission granted an extension and,
basically what City Council was indicating was that that
extension would be contingent, in their mind, upon progress
towards relocating. So, yes, we will give you one
additional year however, understand that at the end of that
time we think it is appropriate to leave. That's the sense
of the extension and it would really be contingent upon the
demonstrated progress that they are really keeping this to a
short time frame. In this case, staff is suggesting two
years and that is consistent with what the church has
indicated that they hope to be in their new facility within
that time frame.
~
Chairman Brown stated that once again his question is that
what the table wants to see is a one to two year use for
various churches within the C-M Zone, because that is what
it will be. At the extension, it will be up to opinion
whether they are demonstrating any process towards moving on
to another facility.
Commissioner Kelley remarked that speaking for himself, he
says absolutely - that is appropriate.
commissioner Saathoff asked to direct a question to staff on
Condition #5 Asked if they caught the verbiage that he
indicated earlier and do they feel that it is apropos and do
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 2, 1988
Page 8
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-6 - INDUSTRIAL CONCEPTS I - CONTINUED
they feel comfortable with it. If staff prefers the
language already in Condition #5, he would go along with it.
Community Development Director Miller replied that it would
depend upon the Commission's desire there are sort of
mixed direction regarding this from previous discussion.
Certainly in this particular situation, feels his comments
are workable. Immediately adjacent to the church site is __
where the DPSS building is going and which has a
considerable amount of parking and they do operate basically
Monday through Friday from 8:00 am. to 5:00 p.m. so, in this
case, special events wouldn't represent any problems on
evenings or weekends.
Motion by Commissioner Wilsey to adopt Negative Declaration
88-10 and approve Conditional Use Permit 88-6 based on the
Findings and the thirteen (13) Conditions of Approval listed
in the Staff Report with the following amendment to
Condition #6.
Second by Commissioner Kelley for discussion.
Kelley asked if they wished Condition #5 to be
recommended by Commissioner Saathoff.
Commissioner
amended as
Upon an affirmative response, Chairman Brown asked
Commissioner Wilsey if he wished to amend his motion to
include the amendment to Condition #5.
Commissioner Wilsey amended his motion to include the
amendment to Condition #5 as follows:
Condition No.5:
The operational hours will be acceptable
as requested in the Environmental
Assessment. Any other special events or
activities shall be permitted during
evening hours only, commencing after
6:00 p.m., and the Police Department
shall be notified of any events or
activities other than those listed in
the Environmental Assessment.
....
Condition No.6:
Applicant shall include a lease
restriction on the church that limits
the hours of operation to the activities
listed in the Environmental Assessment.
Maker of the second, Commissioner Kelley, amended his motion
in concurrence.
Approved 3-2 Commissioner Brinley and Chairman Brown opposed
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Residential Project 88-1 - Greg Block (Continued from July
19, 1988) and
2 . Street Abandonment 88-1 - Greg Block (Continued from July
19, 1988)
Chairman Brown asked Associate Planner Magee if he had any
further information.
--
Associate Planner Magee responded in the negative but at the
present the applicant has indicated a desire to continue
with the project, however, logistical problems between his
engineer and his architect have rendered him unable to get
us a complete application. Therefore, staff has recommended
these two items be continued indefinitely so that at such a
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 2, 1988
Page 9
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 88-1 AND STREET ABANDONMENT 88-1 - GREG
BLOCK - CONTINUED
time that a complete application is obtained, staff can
readvertise for a public hearing.
~
Motion by Commissioner Brinley
Project 88-1 and Street Abandonment
second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 5-0
3. Residential Project 88-2 Kendall and Diane Paulson -
Associate Planner Magee presented proposal to construct a
10-unit apartment complex on 0.48 acres, located at the
northwest corner of Franklin Street and Chestnut Street.
to continue Residential
88-1 indefinitely,
Chairman Brown asked Mr. Ken Paulson if he wished to speak
again on this issue.
Mr. Ken Paulson, 226 Franklin Street, Lake Elsinore, stated
his home is adjacent to this project. They are going to
create a very beautiful environment for people living at
this complex. This is the older part of town with other
rental properties and properties that are quite run down and
feels that with their project, it will influence others to
improve their properties. Mr. Paulson then referred to the
conditions and asked that the Engineering Department
Conditions be explained to him in more detail. He then
asked for approval of his project.
Discussion was brought to the table and Commissioner Kelley
commented that he feels this project will be a tremendous
enhancement to this neighborhood and is excited to see
something like this go in there. Commissioner Kelley then
asked staff if Mr. Paulson could get an appointment with the
Engineering Department to receive the explanations he
requires.
Community Development Director Miller replied that they
would want Mr. Paulson to come in and discuss this with them
and they could very easily arrange an appointment for him
with the Engineering Department.
commissioner Kelley then questioned the
property although the City Engineer feels
work there, he can't visualize it.
drainage on the
it is going to
commissioner Brinley asked if Franklin was being widened for
this project.
Associate Planner Magee responded in the affirmative and
stated one of the conditions requires the applicants to
dedicate an additional five feet. The General Plan
designates Franklin as a local street and with the
additional five-foot dedication it will be a 30-foot
half-width and it does allow room for adequate parking on
the street, however, this project has allowed for ample
parking on-site.
Community Development Director Miller interjected that right
now Franklin is the street that provides access up to the
Rodeo grounds, but the General Plan does call for ultimately
making that connection up by the Rodeo grounds to Pottery
Street since the vertical changes in grade and curve when
you go up Franklin Street is rather severe. They ultimately
foresee that where Franklin Street comes down from the Rodeo
grounds would connect to Pottery and that would alleviate a
lot of the current traffic along this portion of Franklin.
That will be several years in the future, but ultimately.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 2, 1988
Page 10
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 88-2 - KENDALL AND DIANE PAULSON - CONTINUED
Commissioner Brinley asked what staff's concerns were on the
landscaping.
Associate Planner Magee replied that one of the main
concerns of staff was the inconsistency between the grading
plan and the landscape plan. The grading plan shows 2:1
slopes within the public right-of-way which is not
consistent with current City policy. It is also not __
recommended to plant IS-gallon size trees in a 2:1 slope -
they just don't grow. Staff would like to see that
reworked. Also, on the north and west sides of the
property, the applicant has designed the project so that
there will be slopes onto those adjacent properties. They
have obtained letters of acceptance, however, staff would
like to see those slopes landscaped as well and that was not
included on the landscape plan.
Commissioner Brinley asked Mr. Paulson if they planned on
working toward a better landscape plan.
Mr. Paulson replied that they do and have already initiated
that action.
Commissioner Saathoff stated he thinks the project is
delightful and the only comment he has is on the
badminton-type facility shown and if the applicant decides
not to put that in there, that would not hinder getting an
occupancy permit. His feeling is that generally those types
of facilities are very seldom used and they look good when
they first go in and the maintenance on them is even more
difficult than a lawn. Commissioner Saathoff personally
would rather see a lawn area in there. __
Commissioner Wilsey commented that he is excited to see a
project like this coming to that area of our community. His
only concern with it is with regards to the drainage off of
it and the engineer's report on it and would like a little
more input from the engineer on this particular project in
regards to drainage on all four sides of this lot. Other
than that he thinks it is great.
Chairman Brown asked Commissioner Wilsey if he wished to see
the additional information before it is approved.
Commissioner Wilsey replied in the affirmative.
Chairman Brown asked Mr. Paulson if he would like to respond
to this concern.
Mr. Paulson replied that he would like his daughter, Diane
Paulson, to address the Commission.
Ms. Paulson responded that she is the one who designed this
project and as far as the drainage is concerned, they have
complied with what the Planning Division has asked them to
do. The majority of drainage is coming out to Franklin
Street and in so doing that they are going to install a 6"
to 8" drainage pipe along the west side of the building as
it comes down to the low spot of Franklin Street. A very
small amount of the drainage will be going out to Chestnut
and having to be dealt with which is a natural flow down
into a cul-de-sac where there is also two lots now before
the trailer park. They have been assured by their engineers
as well as the City's Engineering Department that this will
be satisfactory so she is curious as to what other
information the Commission might need.
Commissioner Wilsey responded that when he walked the
--
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 2, 1988
Page 11
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 88-2 - KENDALL AND DIANE PAULSON - CONTINUED
-
property he noticed a lot of drop off towards the back and
his concern was with the properties in the rear of the
project and towards the trailer park and that area.
Ms. Paulson answered that that was why they have asked them
for the majority of the drainage to come to Franklin Street
and the property will be graded as such so that the slope is
towards Franklin. As it stands now there is quite a hill
and they will be knocking that down which is going to create
a little bit of slope along the corner which will diminish
to nothing as it proceeds down the streets on both Chestnut
and Franklin.
Ms. Paulson further stated that the slopes going onto their
neighbors property, they are actually going to have an
abundance of dirt and those slopes will not be significant
as they are going to smooth it very gently and gradually
onto the neighbors property. They are in need of the dirt
if they choose to develop as well, so that shouldn't be a
conflict.
Associate Planner Magee commented that on the grading plan,
the applicants' engineer has indicated that approximately
700 cubic yards of dirt will be removed from the site and
then Associate Planner Magee demonstrated the drainage
pattern on the displayed rendering.
-
Chairman Brown stated he is very much in favor of the
project and the only thing he would like to see is Condition
#21, in total, come back to the Commission. Chairman Brown
further asked at what level of maturity are we asking that
the landscape plans be prepared - 3 months? 6 months? 1
year? - or do we have a standard for that.
Associate Planner Magee replied that the way the submittal
guidelines read currently, all plans must just be consistent
and do not give a maturity deadline.
Chairman Brown asked Associate Planner Magee at what rate of
maturity he would like for the landscape plans to display.
-
Ms. Paulson interjected that Mr. Magee was not aware of this
yet but that they have engaged the very capable Donald Fink,
who is the supervisor for Stauffer's Landscape, to assist
them in their project and he has assured them that their
project can be very successful and he has many additions and
no deletions at this point. They don't feel the landscaping
should be lessened at all - they want it to be lush and that
is their intent. It is their understanding from the
Planning Division, and they hope that the Commission will
feel the same, that as long as they submit their landscape
plan at the permit stage satisfactorily complying with both
their conditions and the conditions of Mr. Kobata, the
project should be approved at this point.
Chairman Brown responded that he had no problem with the
project proceeding but he just wanted to add that the
Commission be allowed to comment on the landscape plan.
This can be accomplished by changing the last paragraph of
Condition #21 by adding the verbiage, "and the Planning
Commission", between the words "Community Development
Director" and "and the City's Landscape Architect."
Chairman Brown then asked staff if this would come back as a
formal agenda item.
Community Development Director Miller replied that it would
be brought back to the Commission as a Business Item and
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 2, 1988
Page 12
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 88-2 - KENDALL AND DIANE PAULSON - CONTINUED
would normally have those plans approved prior to issuance
of building permits.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration 88-18 and approval of
Residential Project 88-2 based on the Findings and the
forty-seven (47) Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff
Report, second by Commissioner Kelley. __
Commissioner Saathoff asked Commissioner Brinley if she
would like to amend her motion to include Chairman Brown's
amendment to the last paragraph of Condition #21.
Commissioner Brinley amended her motion to include the
amendment to the last paragraph of Condition #21 which will
read as follows:
Condition No. 21,
Last Paragraph:
"The revised Landscape and Irrigation
Plan shall be submitted with the
building plans and shall be approved by
the Community Development Director and
Planning Commission and the City's
Landscape Architect prior to the
issuance of building permits."
Maker of the second, Commissioner Kelley, amended his motion
in concurrence.
Approved 5-0
INFORMATIONAL
--
1. Response to Traffic Safety Concerns
Community Development Director Miller stated this
information is provided for the Commission in response to
several concerns the Commission previously expressed.
Chairman Brown asked if this is an interim report or in
total. He knows there are alot of other issues.
Community Development Director Miller replied that what they
have here is that the City has employed a Traffic Engineer
as a consultant. Some of the issues which were specifically
related to traffic engineering, the consultant has
addressed. Other of those issues the City staff is pursuing
related to coordination with Cal Trans, such as stop signs,
no parking restrictions, etc., and they are making progress
in that direction.
Chairman Brown asked
Road at the freeway off
forthcoming.
about
ramps
stop signs on Railroad Canyon
and if something else is
Community Development Director Miller responded that one of
the major reasons they entered into a contract with this
consultant was to study a number of traffic engineering
problems - the stop signs at Railroad Canyon Road off ramps
are part of a larger study in which the consultant is
preparing a study that would encompass generally all of the
roadways from San Jacinto River east along Mission Trail to
Malaga, all the way down in front of the T & S Center, along
Casino Drive from San Jacinto River to Malaga, and from
Railroad Canyon Road from Mission Trail up to Grape Street.
It is a much larger study and will probably be 60 to 90 days
before that study is completed.
--
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 2, 1988
Page 13
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
-
Community Development Director Miller stated he wanted to remind
the Commission of the League of California cities Conference in
October in San Diego and asked if any of the Commissioners were
interested in attending. Commissioner Brinley has expressed an
interest and if anyone else is interested, please advise as they
would like to get the reservations in fairly early to guarantee
the reservations. The brochure is in the office and the
secretaries have copies if anyone cares to stop by the office to
look it over.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
commissioner Kelley:
commissioner Kelley commented that he liked Chairman Brown's
suggestion of a church park and he personally urges the churches
in the community to get together and maybe try to form such a
district or church park.
Commissioner Brinlev:
Nothing to report.
commissioner Wilsey:
-.
commissioner Wilsey remarked that he was looking forward to more
projects like Residential Project 88-2 coming into the inner
City area.
commissioner Saathoff:
Nothing to report.
Chairman Brown:
Nothing to report.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
commission adjourned at 8:11 p.m. Motion by Commissioner
Brinley, second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 5-0
/
Jeff B wn
Chairman
----
APprov~
Respectfully submitted,
~~~
Ruth Edwards
Acting Planning
Commission Secretary
-
-
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
16TH
DAY
OF
AUGUST
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Kelley.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: Commissioners: Kelley, Brinley, Saathoff, Wilsey and
- Chairman Brown
ABSENT:
commissioners: None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planner Libiez, Associate Planner Magee and Assistant Planner
Merrett.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve minutes of August 2,
1988, as submitted, second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 5-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
-
Mr. Kevin Hogan, 358 Avenue 6, Lake Elsinore, reiterated his
concern about the Railroad Canyon School site and requested some
response to his concerns from the Engineering Department, City
Attorney or someone from the City. He has received nothing so
far although he understands the City Attorney has mailed a
response but it hasn't had time to be delivered. He intends to
keep coming back and bringing up this same issue until he is
told exactly what to do and who to contact to try and have the
drainage problem at this site resolved.
Chairman Brown told him that they sympathize with his cause and
problem and he is welcome to return and speak at any meeting but
that there isn't anything further that the Planning Commission
can do for him.
There being no further requests to address the Commission,
Chairman closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
It was the unanimous consensus of the Planning commission to
consider PUBLIC HEARING Items #1, #2, and #3 and BUSINESS ITEM
#2 concurrently under PUBLIC HEARINGS.
Associate Planner Magee presented the following proposals as
listed.
PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS:
1. General Plan Amendment 88-4 Brookstone Development-
Proposal to amend the General Plan Land Use Element from
Tourist Commercial to General Commercial on 7.98 acres on
the north side of Casino Drive approximately 600 feet west
of Malaga Road.
-
2. Zone Change 88-4 Brookstone Development - Proposal to
rezone 7.98 acres, located on the north side of Casino Drive
approximately 600 feet west of Malaga Road, from C-l
(Neighborhood Commercial) to C-2 (General Commercial) Zoning
District.
3. Tentative Parcel Map 23710 Brookstone Development
Proposal to divide three (3) existing parcels into seven (7)
parcels ranging in size from 21,672 square feet to 107,558
square feet, located in a Neighborhood Commercial Zoning
District on the north side of Casino Drive approximately 600
feet west of Malaga Road.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 2
PUBLIC HEARINGS - CONTINUED
BUSINESS ITEMS:
1. Commercial Project 88-9 - Brookstone Development - Proposal
to construct a 32,250 square foot commercial building as
Phase 1 of a four (4) phase retail shopping center located
on 4.83 acres on the east side of Casino Drive approximately
800 feet south of Railroad Canyon Road, abutting existing __
center known as "Shopper's Square". Phases 2, 3, and 4 will
consist of three (3) restaurants on three (3) independent
lots.
2. Street Abandonment 88-2 - Brookstone Development - Request
to abandon a 1,200 square foot portion of Casino Drive
approximately 1,600 feet west of Malaga Road. The area
proposed for abandonment is a headwall for an inlet channel
which is designed to direct surface water from the site
under Casino Drive and onto vacant property. The applicant
is proposing to direct all on-site drainage onto Casino
Drive and ultimately into a storm drain.
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:18 p.m. and
announced that this segment of PUBLIC HEARINGS would be for
General Plan Amendment 88-4, Zone Change 88-4, and Tentative
Parcel Map 23710, and then they would move to Business Item
#2, Abandonment 88-2. Chairman Brown then asked if anyone
wished to speak in favor of these items.
Steve Brown, representing Brookstone Development, stated
they were in general agreement with all of staff's
recommendations but that there are a few specific Conditions
of Approval they would like some changes on. First, on __
Tentative Parcel Map 23710, their objective is to get going
with the project as soon as possible. He has spoken to
staff and feels they would agree that once they have an
approved grading plan, staff would not object to them
starting. Several of the conditions have to do with getting
plans approved and encroachment permits issued prior to
commencement of grading and prior to the Map's recording and
that is what he would like to have amended, if possible.
These conditions are:
Condition #4: Would like to change verbiage from "prior to
recordation of a final map," to "prior to Certificate of
Occupancy and release of utilities", because they plan on
plugging the culvert, and the Engineering Department has
agreed that that is an acceptable way to do it.
Condition #8: In third line would like the words "any
improvements" changed to "street improvements." This
conditions deals with the curb cuts and feels staff is
concerned that the City Traffic Engineer, as well as the
traffic study, analyze the curb cuts but it is not their
intent to hold them up on the sewer and water plans or the
grading plan and, therefore, thinks this word change should
be made.
--
Condition #9: Has a general question for staff on how they
were suggesting they handle improvement plans there since
Malaga is a street that is half in the City and half in the
County. Also asked what the intent of this condition is as
far as the actual improvements their engineer must come up
with since is states they are going to participate along
with the City and other property owners. Is this something
they have to work out "down the road" would like
explanation on that.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 3
-
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23710 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
Condition #15: Deals again with the timing of the
improvements and he would like to eliminate the wording
"prior to issuance of grading permit and recordation of
final map." Would like the wording changed. They want to
get their grading operation going and they will not have
their final map recorded and, therefore, by eliminating that
verbiage, they can accomplish what they want.
Condition #16: Would like to change the verbiage "before
issuance of grading permit and recordation of final map" to
"before issuance of certificate of Occupancy and release of
utilities."
Condition #17: In the past, they have always been able to
post a "set aside letter" in lieu of a bond. It has been an
acceptable standard that the city Attorney has endorsed and
they would like to be able to continue using that form.
Would like Condition #17 to read, "Post required bonds or
other acceptable security that the City Attorney agrees
with."
-
Mr. Brown further stated that another big item to them, in
terms of budgeting and cash flow forecasting, are Conditions
#26 and #27 which deal with the payment of bridge fees and
traffic fees. They are in full agreement that they should
pay their fair share of these fees but what he would like to
have specified in the conditions is that they pay those fees
at the building or development stage prior to pulling their
building permits. It helps them in their cash flow and
planning to be able to pay this cost when they pull their
constructions loans for their buildings.
Mr. Brown then stated that was all he had on the Parcel Map
but again, alot of these same conditions are on Commercial
Project 88-9 Conditions of Approval and he would like to
review those. Mr. Brown then commented on them as follows:
-
Condition #15" Feels their color scheme is quite compatible
with existing project and would like to maintain it.
Condition #16: This deals with another sensitive item as
far as they are concerned because it has to do with what
they can build on the project. They have a very specific,
spelled-out, recorded agreement, CC & R's and reciprocal
maintenance agreement with Mr. Palmer for Shopper's Square
Phase I. City staff has a copy of it an it specifically
spells out in that agreement that Shopper's Square, Phase I
and Phase II, will share reciprocal parking, maintenance,
and landscaping and all the other things that everyone wants
in these centers. However, in the same agreement, it
specifically spells out that Shopper's Square, Phase I, as
far as any approvals go for parking requirements, stands on
its own with the one exception for the 12 spaces, which
staff is aware of, that they provide on Phase II for Chris'
Kid's Club. There are no other parking spaces that Phase II
will provide for Phase I. They are sharing reciprocal
parking but as far as the actual approvals processes go for
whatever they want to build, they have to support their own
parking. They have provided ample evidence on the site plan
on display that this parcel, A, B, C and D, had adequate
parking and that is the issue at hand. He would like the
Commission to reconsider Condition #16 as far as having an
analysis that has to include the motel site, the car wash,
and the existing Shopper's Square. If they could eliminate
those three areas from this condition, then it would be
acceptable to them.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 4
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-9 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
Condition #20: Their engineer has advised them that if they
keep the slope to a minimum of 4 percent, they will not be
able to build this project. The current slope on Casino
Drive is 5 to 5-1/2 percent and they find it very difficult
to believe they can keep a minimum or average not to exceed
4 percent on a project when you have a street that is
dropping an average of 5 to 5-1/2 percent. The Uniform
Building Code, which they all work under, has certain
standards which cover this and that should more than
adequately cover any concerns that would deal with
percentage slopes. They would like the elimination of the 4
percent on Condition #20.
Condition #28: Asked for clarification as to whether it was
supposed to be 10 feet or 10 inches - the individual stamps
in the stamped patterns are sometimes 10 inches.
Condition #32: Would like to keep the same color of the
stucco and not have it be changed subject to the Community
Development Director.
Condition #39: On the 10-foot wide landscape planter
adjacent to the freeway, they believe they have an unusual
situation on this property. The Code spells out that they
have a 10-foot setback from the property line which they
will abide by, however, there is a slope bank that goes back
to the freeway and there is drainage off of the freeway that
they have to provide a V-gutter for at the very top of the
slope bank. So, basically, they have a V-gutter adjacent to
the property line, then they have a retaining wall going
down to the level of the building area and then they have a
planter with what is left over. What happens is that the 10
feet gets used up between an 18-inch V-gutter, the wall
itself and the footing for the wall and the planter. The
planter ends up being 5 to 6 feet. They feel they can
provide a 5 to 6-foot planter on the freeway side of the
rear of the building and, in addition to that, they are
providing another landscaped area on the other side of the
same driveway, so they actually have two (2) landscaped
areas to accent the back of the building. Shopper's Square
Phase I, in some cases, has planters down to 3 feet although
it may have been approved under a different set of
development guidelines. Therefore, it would not be
inconsistent for their project to maintain a 5 to 6-foot
landscape area. It would be a great benefit to them to work
within a a 5 to 6-foot planter range versus the 10-foot.
Condition #43: Deals again with the colors of the project.
Condition #50: Again deals with the timing of the project.
They feel if they could eliminate the verbiage, "prior to
the issuance of grading permit and recordation of Final
Map," they would be abiding by what the City wants.
Chairman Brown asked if they'd mind if recordation of final
map was left in and the grading issue taken out altogether.
Mr. Brown asked if their final map would be conditioned on
getting the encroachment permits approved. The problem with
that is that they have some financing issues coming before
them and what they would like to do is to be able to close
on several of their parcels on which they are dealing with
buyers, like the motel is a sale-out and the car wash is a
sale-out, and in order to be able to close, they have to
have legal title separated there. Again, they were just
notified two (2) days ago that they must provide a traffic
-
-
-
Minutes of Planning commission
August 16, 1988
Page 5
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-9 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
-
study to demonstrate that they have adequate curb cut areas
which could take up to 6 to 8 weeks to complete. Basically,
this will hold up any kind of improvement plans.
Chairman Brown said they would discuss this further when it
comes back to the table.
Condition #52: Deals with the same bond requirement again.
Would like to be able to put up letters of credit or set
aside letters.
Condition #64: Would like the verbiage, "or as acceptable
to the Riverside County Fire Department" after the words
"operating pressure." This gives the agency with control
over this, the authority to make an adjustment - it may be
more or it may be less and they feel it will be less.
Mr. Brown said this concluded his concerns and advised that
he was available to address any concerns they may have.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of these projects.
-
Mr. Howard Palmer, 518 Dwyer Drive, Anaheim, owner of
Shopper's Square, stated he was in favor of this development
especially the reciprocal easement parking agreement that
Mr. Steve Brown outlined earlier. They have a very fine,
detailed arrangement between them and he feels it's a fair
way to do it. One thing he does object to is the color of
the proposed buildings they have. He then gave a history on
the color scheme.
Mr. Palmer further stated that he thought it would be better
for the retailers if they had one impact on a 16 acre
shopping center with the same roof line, same parking, same
color. It's all identified as one building area and one
building concept for the retail buyer/customers. He would
like the Commission tQ approve that.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in
favor. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked if
anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no reply,
Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak on the
matters.
-
Mr. Kevin Hogan, 358 Avenue 6, Lake Elsinore, commented on
the color scheme and thinks the design and color should be
similar but different to give variety. As far as deferring
the money for improvements, he thinks it shouldn't be done.
It should have the highest priority over shopping centers.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak on these
matters. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown closed the
public hearing at 7:43 p.m.
Chairman Brown
discussion.
brought the matter to the table for
Commissioner Kelley stated he would like to hear what staff
has to say since there were so many comments and requested
changes, but he would like to keep it as open discussion
too.
Associate Planner Magee commenced with Mr. Brown's comments
on Condition #4 of the Tentative Parcel Map and Condition #3
of Street Abandonment 88-2 as follows:
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 6
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23710 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
Condition #4 requires Mr. Brown to meet all conditions of
the street Abandonment and the last line of Condition #3
says, "subject to the satisfaction of the City Engineer,"
and, according to Mr. Brown, he is willing to do it to the
satisfaction of the City Engineer, so staff wonders why that
needs to be deleted.
Commissioner Saathoff asked where Condition #3 was and was
directed to Street Abandonment 88-2.
Chairman Brown asked for a moment for them to read the
condition through.
Mr. Brown asked for permission to speak and Commissioner
Saathoff yielded the floor.
Mr. Brown stated that what he was specifically talking about
here was that they would like to get out and start grading
right now. However, the grading operation might take a
month to two months before they are totally completed and,
in effect, have totally complied with the abandonment. The
Abandonment condition has to do with their grading operation
because they intend plugging up the culvert and it will be
effected when they complete their grading operation. They
would like to record the Parcel Map prior to the completion
of the grading operation and thus completion of the
abandonment. This condition is saying they cannot have
their map recorded until after the abandonment is completed.
That is the issue here.
Community Development Director Miller commented that he
understands Mr. Brown's concerns about financing, however,
from the City's standpoint, we do have the concern to insure
that such conditions are complied with whether or not the
rest of the project would proceed. At such time as the
Parcel Map would record, if the abandonment were not
complete then it would be involving properties that were not
a part of the private ownership. In terms of the assurances
of the abandonment, part of the reason that right-of-way
exists is to provide for that drainage. That is sort of a
general statement throughout. Generally, our Code does
require that street improvement plans be completed and
security be provided for all public improvements prior to
the recordation of the map and this is to ensure that those
improvements are completed prior to their sale to other
parties who may have less of an ability to provide all those
improvements to areas that are off their site.
Community Development Director Miller further stated that
staff would have no hesitation in working with Mr. Brown and
Brookstone Development in a grading plan and have discussed
that with him and they understand they would have the
responsibility for any remedial action to comply with street
improvement plans. They have acknowledged that
responsibility and are willing to assume it. However, on
many of these conditions, staff would have concerns that
prior to recorda~ion of the Map, the improvement plans
should be completed and security provided for those
improvements.
Chairman Brown remarked he feels that is consistent with
what you see everYwhere else. He can understand them
wanting to get in and grade early, but to record before
improvement plans are completed and security posted is not
realistic.
-
-
-
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 7
-
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23710 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
Mr. Brown responded that that was the way they did it on
Parcel Map 21297 and it worked beautifully. In fact, the
Subdivision Map Act provides for and allows on an industrial
subdivision or commercial parcel map to provide for the
flexibility of recording the map with no bonding whatsoever.
Chairman Brown stated Mr. Brown was really pressing on the
grading issue and asked if that was his real concern.
Mr. Brown replied that his real concern is having to final
the abandonment before the Map records. He can see it
holding up a lot of things. He thinks the Engineering
Department will be flexible enough and he feels comfortable
now with the condition.
Condition #8: community Development Director Miller
remarked that Mr. Brown's request to replace the word "any"
with the word "street" would be acceptable.
Condition #9: Associate Planner Magee deferred to Senior
Planner Libiez for a response on this condition.
-
Senior Planner Libiez explained that part of the problem
they have along Casino Drive, in this neighborhood of the
project area, is the change in elevations along the street
which creates a site vision problem in the vertical. Also
affects potentials in how we are going to deal with traffic
mitigation measures in future and drainage in those areas.
In looking at the opportunities that are available in the
future to deal with that, they are very few. There are only
three (3) pieces of property left that are undeveloped or
potentially have larger redevelopment in that area. One is
before them tonight, one is a piece of Cal Trans right-of-
way which is vacant and abuts this property, and the other
one is Pad #3 for the K-Mart site. What Engineering and
Planning have been talking about here is that we need to
find a way to resolve this problem in the street in the
terms of grades and transitions and look at a more positive
way to provide a safer turning radius at the intersection of
Malaga, which is a very dangerous corner and presents some
other problems. Since the bulk of the development along
Casino will be complete when the center and the subsequent
buildings proposed by this Parcel Map come to be, this is
the opportune time to study that. Therefore, the condition
is one that requests the applicant's engineer to help design
and take care of those problems, particularly by vertical
and horizontal alignments, and come up with solutions to
make better transitions and to participate with the City in
attempting to accomplish that goal. It is going to involve
some work with the County staff as well on the County
portion of the street.
-
Mr. Brown remarked he is more confused now than before. He
thought they were only discussing the intersection of Malaga
and casino Drive and now Mr. Libiez is talking about a sight
problem on Casino Drive. If they are suggesting that they
regrade Casino Drive as it exists in front of their center,
he strongly objects to that. He doesn't think there is
anything wrong with the street right now. If they are
talking about Malaga and Casino Drive, that is another
issue. He knows that has been an issue with the Council in
the past. They are more than willing and want to correct
that situation down there, and when and if the City deems it
is appropriate to start the improvements, participate in the
improvement cost, but no one has ever shown him on the map
as to where the problem starts and where it ends. He needs
to know how this affects his timing.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 8
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23710 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
Community Development Director Miller commented, to clarify
the issue, they are not suggesting that any existing
improvements, where they have the ultimate width approved,
be torn up. Rather at the intersection of Malaga and Casino
and extending, there are some sight distance problems that
are affecting both the vertical and horizontal alignments.
In order to correct those, it may be necessary to make some
transitions in both directions, so thinks the concerns they
are talking about refer to generally near the intersection
of Malaga and Casino and also then relate to the traffic
study discussed in another condition in terms of driveway
locations that may affect particularly sight distance and
vertical alignments. They are not suggesting where there
are existing improvements already installed as part of Phase
I of Shopper's Square or the approved street plans for this
project be removed or changed. Only down closer to Malaga
where there is a hump in the street where certain driveway
locations might be affected by vertical alignment.
-
Associate Planner Magee stated the remaining items are
Conditions of Approval attached by the Engineering
Department but one condition he can respond to is Condition
#27.
Condition #27: Refers to contribution of Public Safety fees
and Resolution No. 83-61 requires that these fees be paid at
time of building permit and it would be a pro rata fee. At
the time Mr. Brown pulls the building permit for the one (1)
building in question, he would pay a pro rata share of the
$22,683 - not the whole $22,683.
Mr. Brown asked about Condition #26 - the bridge fee.
-
Community Development Director Miller replied that, as Mr.
Brown has indicated, the Engineering Department is cognizant
of this concern and would generally agree that the monies
could be paid at time of building permit, although there is
some work to be done on how this is prorated over the
various parcels involved, but they would concur that that
could be stipulated at building permit stage.
Chairman Brown stated that going back to Condition #15,
believes it was changed from "issuance of grading permit and
recordation of final map" to "utilities release."
Community Development Director Miller responded that in that
area, believes they could work with the applicant in terms
of the issuance of the grading permit but would suggest
those plans be approved and security provided for prior to
the recordation of the Final Map.
Mr. Brown remarked that the problem with that is that they
are also talking about unknowns right now. They have street
improvement plans into the City right now, but this new
"glitch" with what they are going to do with Malaga throws a
whole new light on it. They could debate what happens to _
Malaga and Casino for two, three, or four months down the
road, talking about what kind of improvements are going to
be put there. In the meantime he is hung out to dry because
he can't get any of his plans financed any place because he
can't record his Map. That's his big problem. He has his
sewer/water plans in the water company, his street
improvement plans in, and his grading plan in. He wants to
go. They'll post bonds or give letters of credit,
acceptable to the City Attorney, to have that Map recorded.
He is not going to debate the issue tonight although he
Minutes of Planning commission
August 16, 1988
Page 9
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23710 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
-
doesn't agree with it. He would just like to record the Map
and not have to worry about getting his encroachment permits
and off-site street plans totally approved when they have a
gray area such as what to do with Malaga in Condition #9.
That could really hold them up.
Community Development Director Miller commented that he
agreed that their basic concern is provision of security for
the improvements and those conditions could be modified with
the wording changed to the effect that the street improve-
ments would be subject to the approval of the City Engineer.
They certainly don't want to hold up the applicant if there
is a glitch because of the public improvements where the
City is trying to resolve the problem, as long as the
securities are provided and the improvement plans are in
process to the satisfaction of the city Engineer.
Chairman Brown asked if that
irrespective of the approval.
Community Development Director Miller replied this means
acceptable security. They will have a pretty good idea from
what the cost of the approvals are. Whether it is changed
slightly or not is not going to significantly impact the
cost of the improvements. So as long as those securities
were provided, that is the principal concern of the city.
meant
posting
bonds
-
Mr. Brown remarked that he would be agreeable to that.
He'll leave it up to the Engineering Department as long as
they'll work with him in that they have something down here
that they can refer to that shows the intent of the Planning
Commission and City Council.
Chairman Brown commented there would be no substitution of
securities because of the sale.
Mr. Brown replied that they are obligated to do all site
work on their sales, off-sites too - all utilities to the
site, curb, gutters, streets, sidewalks.
Mr. Brown remarked that the one last issue he wanted to
mention is the wording that they will participate with the
City. He would like a clarification as to whether they will
be paying one-half, a third, or what, since they are going
to be asked to bond for it, and then how are they going to
be reimbursed.
commissioner Brinley asked what is staff's intention on
this.
-
Senior Planner Libiez replied that the intention is to
resolve what they all know exists primarily at the
intersection, just slightly back from the intersection on
Casino. The reason the wording was agreed to by Engineering
and Planning at this point to say "participate in" is
because the need to contact the adjacent property owners
other than Mr. Brown to also advise them of the situation
and to get their concurrence and action. They would like to
give Mr. Brown a definite amount to participate in but
thinks the intent here is to assist in any way, shape, or
form. If there are any public agency funds available
through grants or other off-sets are available, they will
want to use them where they can. Everybody would benefit,
not just Mr. Brown, and so for him to bear the entire cost
alone in the end would certainly not be fair when it is a
pUblic improvement that serves the community as a whole,
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 10
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23710 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
including some of the County portion. It will have to be
worked out because they don't know at this point the level
of participation he would have to have in terms of actual
dollars. The City would anticipate, however, since they are
engineering a lot of the off-sites now for their center,
that this would be a logical extension to employ the
continued use of that engineering firm and to shoot the
grades and such and assist the City in that aspect of it.
...-
Commissioner Brinley asked how many participants they were
talking about at this time besides Mr. Brown.
Senior Planner Libiez replied at least two (2) and they are
not sure how many on the County side of Malaga may be
involved in that. At this time, there is no way they can
actually base the percentage of the amount Mr. Brown would
have to pay.
Mr. Brown remarked that he is not looking for an exact
amount. He just wanted a detailed explanation so it is in
the minutes. He feels comfortable they will work together
on that.
Associate Planner Magee informed the table that they have
addressed all of Mr. Brown's concerns and asked if he should
go on to Commercial Project 88-9.
Community Development Director Miller commented that while
these items were still fresh in their minds, they might want
to take action on the first few items and then move on to
the Commercial Project. ...-
There being no discussion at the table on General Plan
Amendment 88-4, Chairman Brown called for the question.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration 88-17 and approval of
General Plan Amendment 88-4 based on the Findings, second by
Commissioner Wilsey. Approved 5-0
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to adopt Resolution No.
88-5, entitled as follows:
RESOLUTION NO. 88-5
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY
OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA, RECOMMENDING ADOPTION
OF GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 88-4 TO THE LAND USE
ELEMENT OF THE 1982 GENERAL PLAN CHANGING THE
DESIGNATION OF A 7.98 ACRE PARCEL FROM TOURIST
COMMERCIAL TO GENERAL COMMERCIAL.
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
There being no discussion at the table on Zone Change __
88-4, Chairman Brown called for the questions.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration 88-17 and adoption of Zone
Change 88-4 based on the Findings, second by Commissioner
Brinley.
Approved 5-0
There being no discussion at the table on Tentative Parcel
Map 23710, Chairman Brown called for the question.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 11
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23710 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
~
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration 88-17 and approval of
Tentative Parcel Map 23710 based on the Findings and subject
to the twenty-eight (28) Conditions of Approval listed in
the Staff Report with the following amendments:
.....
Condition #8: Access locations to the parcels shown upon
the Tentative Parcel Map shall be subject to
the review and approval of the City Traffic
Safety Engineer prior to construction of
street improvements abutting any parcel
shown upon the Tentative Map; said approval
shall be based upon a comprehensive
engineered study of access locations along
Casino Drive to be provided by the
applicant's engineer or licensed surveyor
and shall be accompanied by a traffic study
which provides analysis of anticipated
traffic generation by all existing or
proposed businesses having access from
Casino Drive between Railroad Canyon Road
and Ma1aga Road.
Condition #9: Applicant shall engineer and design the
vertical, horizontal, and curve radii
requirements necessary to correct the
transition and intersection between Casino
Drive and Ma1aga Road beyond the existing
approved street plans; applicant shall agree
to participate in a proportionate share with
the city and other affected property owners
in the construction of improvements to
Casino Drive and Ma1aga Road, beyond the
existing approved street plans, necessary to
provide proper capacity, insure adequate
traffic flows and improve safety.
Condition #15: Work done under encroachment permit for off-
site improvements shall be delineated on
street improvements plans and shall be
subject to the approval of the City Engineer
and security provided for prior to
recordation of the Final Map.
Condition #16: Public Works Improvement plans and
specifications shall be prepared by a civil
engineer and include signing and striping
plans and shall be subject to the approval
of the City Engineer and security provided
for prior to recordation of the Final Map.
Condition #17: Post required bonds or other acceptable
means of security for pUblic works
improvements as established by the City
Engineer.
~
Condition #26: Contribute $15,000 deposit, prorated on the
same ratio as provided in Resolution No. 83-
61, toward widening of San Jacinto River
Bridge at Lakeshore Drive at the time the
building permit is pulled; if bridge is
funded by another source, deposit will be
refunded.
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 12
ABANDONMENT 88-2 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
Chairman Brown stated the next item to consider is
Abandonment 88-2.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to approve Abandonment 88-2
subject to the three (3) Conditions of Approval listed in
the Staff Report, and to advise the City Council that the
subject Abandonment is in conformance with the Goals and __
Objectives of the General Plan based on the Findings listed
in the Staff Report, second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 5-0
At this time, 8:17 p.m., the Commission recessed.
At this time, 8:24 p.m., the Commission reconvened.
Chai.rman Brown resumed the PUBLIC HEARING portion of the
meeting with completion of consideration of Business Item
#1, Commercial Project 88-9 - Brookstone Development.
Associate Planner Magee stated that he would take up Mr.
Brown's items of concern in the order they were presented,
as follows:
Condition #15: The basis for this condition is to generate
the same architectural theme in color and styles within not
only Mr. Brown's project but also the adjoining project _
Mr. Palmer's project. The styles are quite similar but the
contrasting colors are not and staff would like the two (2)
centers to blend. The contrast between the colors of the
two may actually negatively affect the appearance of one
center or the other.
Mr. Brown interjected that during the recess he had an
opportunity to talk to Mr. Palmer and he was not aware that
he was in disagreement with them on their color. He values
Mr. Palmer's knowledge and experience in shopping center
development and agrees he has a good point in that it should
maintain the same color for retailer purposes. Therefore,
he is in agreement with Mr. Palmer's recommendations.
--
Condition #16: Requires applicant to prepare a parking
study. Phase I required a Conditional Use Permit for 12
parking spaces on Phase II for Chris' Kids' Club so these
spaces are dedicated for Phase I. On Phase I, the City
basically painted itself into a corner as far as parking was
concerned and staff feels they will do the same thing here
unless they get a parking study.
Mr. Brown commented that he agrees with Mr. Magee but he
doesn't feet it should cover Phase I - just the 12 dedicated
spaces for Phase I and the building that is being considered
tonight. Each developer must stand on his own when he
develops his site and his development will have to be
tailored to fit the number of parking spaces he must
provide.
Commissioner Saathoff interjected that Condition #16 be --
changed to read "Proposed restaurant uses shall comply with
the parking standards provided in Title 17." Each item that
will be brought to them as a separate entity, whether by the
same developer or not, will have to comply with the Parking
Code.
Community Development Director Miller commented that perhaps
they could address Mr. Brown's concerns if they simply
deleted the future car wash and motel areas. They just want
to make sure the existing 12 dedicated spaces are not lost
in the analysis.
-
-
-
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 13
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-9 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
Chairman Brown asked if this requirement was brought about
due to the concerns expressed over the Sizzler parking.
Community Development Director Miller replied that that was
a perfect example of what happens.
Chairman Brown asked how they could address these concerns
and still make it fit together logically.
Community Development Director Miller responded that they
would like to see, when another restaurant user comes in
such as Pizza Hut, that the parking analysis be provided,
such as is now displayed on the site plan, so there is an
ongoing modification of the numbers presented on the site
plan.
Mr. Brown stated they are in total agreement in providlng
that on that sheet and would be more than happy to assist
Pizza Hut and the builder of Pad Band C but at that
appropriate time with the existing uses and proposed uses.
Community Development Director Miller remarked that perhaps
they could modify that to satisfy the concerns by saying,
"Shall provide a parking analysis for the existing parking
agreement and the proposed center." That would include the
12 spaces and be isolated to just this center without
mention of the motel and car wash areas.
Mr. Brown said that is
including the 12 spaces in
incorporate that language
address Buildings A, B, C,
keep them ongoing.
Condition #20: Refers in the last line to slope percentage
within the parking lot and Mr. Brown states his engineer
says that the slope is 5 to 5-1/2 percent. The reason staff
inserted this condition is that in several areas within this
development there are slopes in excess of 4 percent. One
example of why we should not have slopes this excessive
within a parking area is a parking garage. Trying to open
your car without banging it into another car is a challenge.
fine. They have no objection to
their analysis and they could
into the deal that says they will
and D in a parking analysis and
Mr. Brown said they want to abide by the Uniform Building
Code. They aren't going to design anything where people
dent their cars. What he is trying to do is eliminate a
total redo of their whole plan. They have an unusual site,
it goes up hill, and it has to be acknowledged in the
development plan.
Commissioner Saathoff asked what the Uniform Building Code
called for.
Community Development Director replied that the UBC doesn't
actually specify except that in areas that would be
handicapped accessible, that grades in those areas not
exceed 8 percent. Perhaps in consideration of the unique
aspects of this site, we could delete the 4 percent and work
mutually together to keep the areas to a minimum slope.
Mr. Brown he would be agreeable to that.
Condition #28: That conditions does say 10 feet.
Community Development Director stated that a "pattern area"
might be better way to define that.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 14,
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-9 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
Condition #32: Refers to colors and materials and that has
already been covered.
Condition #39: Refers to the 10-foot wide landscape planter
and that is a Code requirement and it was not in effect when
Shopper's Square, Phase I, was put in. Currently, Mr.
Brown's landscape plan shows 9 feet and it was staff's
understanding that they would reduce the drive aisles to the
rear by one (1) foot and add an additional foot of
landscaping.
Associate Planner Magee stated Engineering Conditions #50,
#51, #52 and #62 were addressed under the Tentative Parcel
Map and they could amend these conditions to have the same
language as those previously amended in the Tentative Parcel
Map.
-
Condition #64: Is a Riverside County Fire Department
condition. These plans were circulated to the Fire
Department and this is the condition they attached.
Mr. Brown commented that what happens is that until you
actually show themn a building plan they require the
absolute worst. They are getting ready to do off-site
improvements and prior to doing those off-site improvements,
they are going back to the Riverside County Fire Department
with a very specific plan for use on this project, including
the car wash and the two-story motel to get exactly what
they need in the way of GPM.
Chairman Brown asked if all he
addition of "or as approved by the
Department" .
wanted changed was the
Riverside County Fire
-
Mr. Brown replied in the affirmative.
Associate Planner Magee stated that concluded the changes
requested by Mr. Brown.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to
adoption of Negative Declaration 88-17 and
Commercial Project 88-9 based on the Findings,
to the 77 Conditions of Approval listed in the
with the following amendments:
Condition #16: Proposed restaurant uses shall comply with
the parking standards provided in Title 17.
Applicant shall provide a parking analysis
for the existing Shopper's Square, Phase I
agreement of 12 spaces.
City Council
approval of
and subject
Staff Report
Condition #20: A final grading plan shall be submitted and
shall be subject to the approval of the
Chief Building Official. This plan shall
clearly demonstrate the methods of retention
and treatments for the I-15 property line,
interior drive aisles and parking areas and _
transitional driveways between abutting
properties and public right-of-way. The
slope of the parking lot shall be in
conformance with City Engineer requirements.
Condition #28: All ingress/egress drives shall provide
decorative pavers or stamped concrete, the
pattern areas shall have a minimum dimension
of ten feet (10') and shall be located
within the property boundary.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 15
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-9 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
.....
Condition #50: Work done under encroachment permit for off-
site improvements shall be delineated on
street improvements plans and shall be
subject to the approval of the City Engineer
and security provided for prior to
recordation of the Final Map.
Condition #51: Public Works Improvement plans and
specifications shall be prepared by a civil
engineer and include signing and striping
plans and shall be subject to the approval
of the city Engineer and security provided
for prior to recordation of the Final Map.
Condition #52: Post required bonds or other acceptable
means of security for public works
improvements as established by the City
Engineer.
Condition #64: Provide or show there exists a water system
capable of delivering 3500 GPM for a 3 hour
duration at 20 PSI residual operating
pressure, or as acceptable by the Riverside
County Fire Department, which must be
available before any combustible material is
placed on the jOb site.
Second by Commissioner Kelley.
~
Discussion ensued on Condition #20 and a need for a
percentage guideline.
Chairman Brown stated he would put the handicapped
accessibility slope of 8 percent as the ceiling.
.---.
Commissioner Saathoff amended his motion to include the 8
percent in Condition #20 which will read as follows:
Condition #20: A final grading plan shall be submitted and
shall be subject to the approval of the
Chief Building Official. This plan shall
clearly demonstrate the methods of retention
and treatments for the I-15 property line,
interior drive aisles and parking areas and
transitional driveways between abutting
properties and public right-of-way; no
portion of the parking lot shall exceed 8
percent in slope in any plane.
Commissioner Kelley amended the second.
Commissioner Wilsey asked if they wished to amend Condition
#61 to read the same as the condition in the Tentative
Parcel Map.
Commissioner Saathoff amended his motion to amend Condition
#61 to read the same as Condition #26 on Tentative Parcel
Map, which reads as follows:
Condition #61: contribute $15,000 deposit, prorated on the
same ratio as provided in Resolution No. 83-
61, toward widening of San Jacinto River
Bridge at Lakeshore Drive at the time the
building permit is pulled; if bridge is
funded by another source, deposit will be
refunded.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 16
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-9 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT - CONTINUED
Commissioner Kelley amended his second.
Mr. Brown asked for clarification on Condition #16. He
thought it was staff's intent for them to provide an ongoing
analysis of the existing center they are proposing and which
they intend to do.
Commissioner Saathoff amended his motion on Condition #16 to
add "Report to reflect future uses in development," and
which will read as follows:
-
Condition #16: Proposed restaurant uses shall comply with
the parking standards provided in Title 17.
Applicant shall provide a parking analysis
for the existing Shopper's Square, Phase I
agreement of 12 spaces and the report to
reflect future uses in development.
Commissioner Kelley amended his second.
Approved 5-0
It was the consensus of the Planning Commission to consider PUBLIC
HEARING Item #4 and BUSINESS ITEM #3 concurrently under PUBLIC
HEARINGS.
Assistant Planner Merrett presented the following proposals as
follows:
PUBLIC HEARING ITEM:
4. Conditional Use Permit 88-9 - Ervin Palmer - A request to
expand an existing Recreational Vehicle Park from 169 spaces
to 195 spaces on a 42.37 acre site between Riverside Drive
(Highway 74) and the lake east of Grand Avenue and west of
the State park.
-
BUSINESS ITEM:
3. Commercial Project 88-11 Ervin Palmer - A request to
construct a 6,150 square foot pavilion building, a five-foot
high slumpstone wall parallel to Riverside Drive which will
incorporate two (2) entry signs, and a 600 square foot
office/store structure on a 42.37 acre site, between
Riverside Drive (Highway 74) and the lake east of Grand
Avenue and west of the State park.
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 9:02 p.m.,
asking if anyone wished to speak in favor of Conditional Use
Permit 88-9 or Commercial Project 88-11.
Mr. Ervin Palmer,
Elsinore West Marina,
good idea.
4040 Via Opata, Palos Verdes, owner of
stated he thinks his projects are a
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of these projects. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown __
asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no
reply, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak on the
matters. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown closed the
public hearing at 9:04 p.m.
Chairman Brown stated he would like it entered into the
record as part of the public hearing that they have received
correspondence from Margaret E. Clark, 15568 Grand Avenue,
Lake Elsinore, stating that she wasn't against the
campground but would like boundaries clearly defined for its
guests, trash and toilet facilities available, noise from
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 17
....
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-9 = ERVIN PALMER = CONTINUED
R. V. generators controlled, no wood gathering without
permission from property owner and to be done in a safe
manner, and enforcement of rules for campfires; and a letter
from Mr. Ervin Palmer requesting an exemption to occupancy
limits which will go to City Council.
Discussion was brought to the table and Chairman Brown
called on Commissioner Kelley for his comments.
Commissioner Kelley asked, on Condition #14 of Commercial
Project 88-11, if FEMA will stand behind the ordinance.
Community Development Director Miller replied that the City
has adopted an ordinance that follows the Model Ordinance
developed by the Department of Water Resources of the State
of California. Our ordinance has been reviewed and approved
by the Department of Water Resources. FEMA has contracted
with the Department of Water Resources to implement the
Model Ordinance and see that jurisdictions within the State
of California comply with the FEMA requirements. It has
been reviewed and approved by the FEMA delegate.
~
commissioner Wilsey asked about occupancy limitation.
Community Development Director Miller responded that the
prior Conditional Use Permit did place limitation on
occupancy of the park. As indicated by Mr. Merrett, the
State Code made provisions that an applicant may request
exemption of this and since it was subject to a prior
Conditional Use Permit this would require action by the City
Council to remove this. There are various findings that
must be addressed in consideration of exemption of time
frames which are set forth in the State Code. There are a
number of issues relating to this, particularly impacts upon
schools and public services. Because of the additional
requirements this would entail from the FEMA requirements,
since virtually the entire park would be subject to flooding
under current lOO-year flood definition of 1267', and upon
potential impacts upon public services, they would recommend
that this condition be applied to the new spaces. There
already is a condition applying to the previously approved
spaces. Ultimately, this exemption request would require
City council consideration. Staff just received it today
and included it in the information provided to the
Commission, so they would be aware of Mr. Palmer's request
and intent.
Commissioner Wilsey asked Mr. Palmer what his intention was.
~
Mr. Palmer responded that there has always been a difference
of opinion between himself and the City on the length of
stay. The State law has since changed and when he received
the Staff Report he realized he had to do something
promptly and that is why he filed the request for exemption
of limitation. He commented further on the FEMA ordinance
of 1987, it being published in the Federal Register at that
point, protest from RV owners, mobile home owners and
manufacturers and others, so FEMA backed away from it. They
suspended that ordinance until September, 1989. You can
call Mr. Mike RObinson, in Washington, who is head of FEMA,
and will support his statements. Mr. Palmer said he would
have copies made of this portion of the Federal Register and
provide them to the City. Mr. Palmer remarked he had talked
to Kevin Shear some time ago and Mr. Shear was aware the
City's ordinance was not based on a correct federal code.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 18
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-9 = ERVIN PALMER = CONTINUED
Mr. Palmer further stated that he would rather have the
option, himself, to make the determination of the length of
stay. That way he could control the type of people who used
his park - sort of a "product mix".
Commissioner Brinley
planned on bringing
mix."
asked Mr. Palmer if he eventually
in motorhomes as part of his "product
-
Mr. Palmer replied that he couldn't because it was against
the law.
Commissioner Brinley asked about people setting up homes out
of their recreational vehicles and if they have children
that attend the local schools
Mr. Palmer
recreational
but they do
do not allow
replied that they have people who live in their
vehicles on a full time basis and it is legal
not have children. His Conditional Use Permits
children.
Commissioner Brinley asked him
limitation wasn't a help to him
he got in people he later wanted
time limit be of help.
if having the 180 days
instead of a hindrance. If
to get rid of, wouldn't the
Mr. Palmer replied in the negative and said he would just
use the normal eviction process.
Commissioner Wilsey commented that he felt the people who
used the R.V. parks brought alot of money to the City
because they purchased what they needed to live day-to-day
from merchants here in the City and he feels the l80-day
limitation is unnecessary and would curtail revenue to
businesses and the City. He is very familiar with the
Snowbird syndrome and feels we would be driving away alot of
people in the winter time.
-
Commissioner Saathoff stated he believes there is a
requirement that for a certain number of spaces there are a
certain number of restroom facilities required.
Mr. Palmer remarked that requirement pertains only to parks
that do not have a sewer outlet at each site. All of his
sites do have sewer outlets.
Commissioner Saathoff stated he did not see restroom
facilities for the pavilion that he proposes to build.
Mr. Palmer stated there are none in the pavilion but there
are facilities adjacent.
Commissioner Saathoff asked staff if that was adequate and
complied with Code requirements and received an affirmative
reply.
Commissioner Saathoff stated he was very much in favor of
the l80-day limitation. Unfortunately, in many of the R.V.
parks in the City the length of stay is by the year and what
we are providing is very, very, low income housing and in
some cases, slum situations and, therefore, he is in favor
of a time limitation. It would be his recommendation to the
City that, if the Council does feel that they would like to
give an exemption to the ruling for l80-days, that a certain
area of the R.V. park should be set aside for longer than
l80-day stays and that the site requirements be much more
--
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 19
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-9 = ERVIN PALMER = CONTINUED
----
stringent as far as space is concerned, some skirting,
buildings, etc. The parking facilities for some of
spaces in the current park are very inadequate
overcrowded.
out
the
and
commissioner Brinley stated she agreed with Commission
Saathoff. Also, on Condition #3, believes the applicant
should send the city quarterly reports of park occupancy.
The City could send a notice out for the report and keep the
incoming reports on file.
Chairman Brown stated he would like to discuss a possible
addition of 5 or 6 conditions to the Conditional Use Permit
approval and listed them as follows:
5. All existing structures have building permit issued,
brought to Code or be removed immediately.
6. Shall install side lot fencing in conformance with
Fencing Code (property line fencing running down from
Riverside Drive to reasonable distance to the lake), to
prevent trespass both from tenants within this park and
people from without.
7. Nonconforming uses and/or structures will be cause for
revocation of this Conditional Use Permit.
.....
8. All vehicles within the park shall be currently licensed
and operable, including recreation vehicles,
self-propelled vehicles whether it be car or mobilehome.
9. Limitation of parking to two (2) vehicles per space or
adequate, improved communal parking be provided.
Chairman Brown stated that what is very distressing in
situations like this is that they are not designed for alot
of ingress or multiple tenant-type situations and what you
see in this park is 1 to 4 vehicles parked at each space.
There is not adequate space for those vehicles to prevent
traffic congestion, or adequate parking in the area. This
is why he would like to see a limitation of parking of
vehicles. The State Park allow 3 vehicles per space and the
rest have to park outside.
.....
Chairman Brown commented that on the 180-day situation, he
has feelings in both directions about it. He firmly
believes if there is to be an extension of time, they should
move to another park. When they stay over 6 months, you
have what they have out there now. They have several
trailers that have never been moved and probably couldn't be
moved, alot of apparent structures attached to them, which
have never been permitted or built to Code and they are
obviously just a rental unit. If you are going to run a
rental unit park, you need to put in the same improvements
that everyone else must put in - pay the same fees. Would
like to see a response from the school district on this.
Chairman Brown stated a few years ago one of the small R.V.
parks put more children into the schools than the first
phase of Woodhaven did 31 children - and they paid no
impact fees.
Mr. Palmer interjected that he thinks State law preempts
some of the items Chairman Brown listed. They installed a
fence last Spring between his property and the Roadrunner on
the one side and on the other side is the flood control
channel and they have a fence put up which is entirely under
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 20
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-9 = ERVIN PALMER = CONTINUED
their control but it doesn't quite go to the lake.
Chairman Brown responded that he doesn't feel he has asked
for anything unreasonable, whether it is to City Code or
State Code, as long as Mr. Palmer does it to Code, then
there would no problem, although any future nonconforming
uses or structures will be cause for revocation of the
Conditional Use Permit. They are a safety hazard since they
fill up the setback areas and are improperly constructed and
attached. He informed Mr. Palmer that he would have to go
in now and clean up what he has and then, in the future,
through his own good business management, keep such uses out
of his park and he would have no concern on revocation and
the ability to do business.
-...
Mr. Palmer remarked that he understood - that
constant battle with this, but it is against
rules and when they notice it, they request it
It is also against Title 25 which require 3 feet
each site.
they have a
their park
be removed.
all around
Chairman Brown asked for comments from the table and by
unanimous consent the conditions remained as presented.
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to adopt Negative Declaration
88-22 and approve Conditional Use Permit 88-9 based on the
Findings and subject to the four (4) Conditions of Approval
listed in the Staff Report and the following additional five
(5) conditions:
5. All existing structures have building permit issued, __
brought to Code or be removed immediately.
6. Shall install side lot fencing in conformance with
Fencing Code (property line fencing running down from
Riverside Drive to reasonable distance to the lake), to
prevent trespass both from tenants within this park and
people from without.
7. Nonconforming uses and/or structures will be cause for
revocation of this Conditional Use Permit.
8. All vehicles within the park shall be currently licensed
and operable, including recreation vehicles,
self-propelled vehicles whether it be car or mobilehome.
9. Limitation of parking to two (2) vehicles per space or
adequate, improved communal parking be provided.
Commissioner Brinley requested Condition #3 be amended to
contaim the following verbiage, "The City will send out
notification on a quarterly basis for a quarterly report."
Commissioner Kelley included this change to Condition #3 in
his motion.
...
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Commissioner sa~~hoff remarked that the additional
requirement on Condition #3 would place a very difficult
burden on the City and would set a precedent. Feels the
intent of having these records available is if the City or
County note any reason that would require they investigate
the park, then these records should be available to
determine whether or not they are complying with the
requirements placed upon them.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 21
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 8-9 = ERVIN PALMER = CONTINUED
....
A short discussion ensued with consensus to leave Condition
#3 as presently listed in the Staff Report.
Commissioner Kelley amended his motion to leave Condition #3
as originally set forth in the Staff Report.
commissioner Brinley amended her second.
.
Approved 5-0
Chairman Brown brought Commercial Project 88-11 to the table
for discussion.
commissioner Brinley questioned the roof of the pavilion and
asked if it shouldn't be shingled or brought up to Code.
Mr. Palmer said this roof is a sun shade.
Commissioner Saathoff asked Mr. Palmer if he would like to
speak on this matter.
Mr. Palmer replied that he had a great deal of concern over
some of the conditions as follows:
Condition 7.e: He has engaged a landscape architect to draw
up a beautiful attractive plan. On 7.d he doesn't want
automatic sprinklers at each of the 26 sites spraying the
site.
-----
Community Development Director stated the intent is to
supply an irrigation system for all the planted landscaping.
It is not intended to water a pad for an R.V.
Mr. Palmer stated, concerning Condition #14, he had talked
with Mr. Ron Peace of the High School District and he told
him he had no requirement for ongoing fees or developer fee
as far as the school district goes.
On Condition #15, he would like a 3-foot (3') wide planter
along the entry/exit roads.
Assistant Planner Merrett informed the table that on the
plans submitted it showed a five-foot (5') planter but it is
Mr. Palmer's intention, if not with this project, but some
date, to widen both the entrance and exit roads so they will
accommodate two (2) lanes in order to eliminate backup onto
Riverside Drive on busy weekends. That would still leave a
3-foot (3') planter space which is adequate and acceptable
to screen the walls and fences.
Condition #16: Needs further definition - doesn't know what
or how many are required.
Mr. Palmer stated his major problem is the Engineering
conditions. These fees and E.V.M.W.D.'s fee will cost him
around $200,000 which is two-third's of the cost for his
project. He would like some relief from some of the costs.
He doesn't feel he should bear the full cost for new curb
and gutter since he had put new curb and gutter in eleven
years ago. The City and County have now changed their mind
on the width of the street but he doesn't feel it is fair
for him to tear up what he paid for once and pay the full
fee again because of this change of minds.
On Condition #27, they have a water well on the property and
want to use the water for irrigation and is very reluctant
to give it up to the City. He has talked to Engineering
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 22
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-11 ~ ERVIN PALMER ~ CONTINUED
about this and they advised him that they would speak to the
City Attorney and get his opinion but he hasn't heard
anything yet.
On Condition #28, he object to this condition because no one
on Riverside Drive has been asked to do it and it's unfair
to ask him.
t
-
Condition #32, he feels it is strange that he should put up
the "No Parking" signs instead of Cal Trans.
Condition #34, he doesn't know what he is going to do about
their $63,000 requirement. He can't afford to pay them that
amount of money to hook up water and sewer lines that are
his and in and established and hooked up.
Chairman Brown commented that even if the City eliminated
Condition #24, Cal Trans still requires it under Condition
#30.
Commissioner Saathoff remarked that as he understands the
condition they are asking him to dedicate the right-of-way
at this time, not actually to place the improvements in
today, but pay in-lieu fee. Perhaps instead of paying an
in-lieu fee there could be some type of bonding.
Community Development Director Miller stated he believed the
Engineering staff sat down with Mr. Palmer and discussed
this at some length and indicated a compromise solution of
paying the in-lieu fee and that was a reduced fee. It
wasn't $52,000 but around $18,000. In terms of whether to
widen the street or not, this certainly has been a concern
over the years. All are aware of the extreme amount of
traffic on Riverside Drive and on weekends most of the
traffic is generated by the R.V. parks in this area.
Therefore, in order to alleviate some of these problems, Cal
Trans, the City and the County cooperatively and jointly
indicated that a wider street was recommended to address the
traffic problems.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration 88-22 and approval of
-
Commercial Project 88-11 based on the Findings and
to the thirty-four (34) Conditions of Approval
first paragraph of Conditions #7 and Condition #15
as follows:
subject
with the
amended
Condition #7,
First Paragraph:
Revised Landscape and Irrigation Plans
shall be prepared and submitted which
will provide for the following revisions
as a minimum; said plans shall be subject
to the review and approval of the
Communi ty Development Director and' the
Planning Commission, and shall
incorporate the following:
A landscape buffer shall be placed along
the slumpstone portions of the wall along
Riverside Drive and in the three-foot
(3') wide planter area along the
entry/exit roads.
-
Condition #15:
Second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 23
BUSINESS ITEMS:
4. Residential Project 88-4 John Petersen/Lloyd Roybal -
Assistant Planner Merrett presented request to construct a
5,962 square foot eight-unit addition to an existing six-
-- unit rental apartment building on a 0.78 acre lot at 16420
Joy Street.
Chairman Brown stated he would like it entered into the
record of the meeting that they have received correspondence
from T. Goveia, 535 Quail Drive, Lake Elsinore, requesting
that this project be conditioned to be of high quality in
construction and design.
Chairman Brown asked if there was anyone representing the
applicant, Mr. Petersen, here.
Mr. Lloyd Roybal, 1506 West Graham, Lake Elsinore, stated he
was representing Mr. Petersen, and they are in favor of the
project. He met with Mr. Petersen this afternoon and he has
a concern with Condition #17.
-
Assistant Planner Merrett remarked that when the plans were
submitted it appeared there were gates on the ground floor
patio areas, but the applicant has indicated those areas
will be completely enclosed with no gates.
Mr. Roybal commented that regarding Condition #18, they have
engaged a landscape architect to submit a landscape plan for
the entire project. Mr. Roybal said he had nothing further
but he would be happy to answer any questions they might
have.
commissioner Kelley remarked that he thought Mr. Roybal has
done a remarkable job on the new project but it is all a
mute issue because the present condition of the present
complex is a disaster and doesn't think it will be kept up
or maintained. He feels the present complex should be
brought up to compliance before he is allowed to go on.
Commissioner Wilsey stated he feels the same as Commissioner
Kelley. We should be very emphatic in our conditions on
doing the upgraded design standards on the entire project.
Mr. Roybal remarked that Mr. Petersen intends to use a
majority of the materials stored on the site in his new
construction as well as the renovation of the existing
project. The large steel containers on the property are
being sold and perhaps will be out of the way soon. Mr.
Petersen will do whatever they desire to screen the
materials from view.
-
commissioner Brinley stated she agrees with Commissioner
Kelley.
Chairman Brown commented that Condition #20 pretty much
addresses this issue. He further stated he would like to
add additional verbiage to Condition #20 - put a comma after
the word "action" at the end of the Condition and add the
verbiage, "and revocation of Residential project 88-4." In
the first line of the first paragraph of Condition #18, he
would like the verbiage, "for approval by the Planning
commission" added between the words "submit" and "a". If
the work is not done in a timely manner, you will not only
have to abate the old structure but also remove all the new
construction up to that point.
Mr. Roybal remarked that he had no problem with the
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 24
RESIDENTIAL
CONTINUED
PROJECT
88-4
JOHN PETERSEN/LLOYD ROYBAL
additions to Conditions #18 and #20 and he understands the
reasoning behind them.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration 88-21 and approve
Residential Project 88-4 based on the Findings and subject
to the thirty (30) Conditions of Approval listed in the
Staff Report with the following amendments to Conditions #18
and #20:
-
Condition #18,
First Paragraph:
The applicant shall submit for approval
by the Planning Commission a revised
landscape and irrigation plan which shall
incorporate the following:
Condition #20:
Owner or his authorized representative
shall, within 30 days of the approval of
the Design Review, in cooperation with
the City Chief Building Official, develop
a work schedule which comprehensively
establishes task areas and completion
dates in order to satisfy Nuisance
Abatement pending against the site.
Failure to satisfy the approved schedule
shall be grounds for implementation of
abatement action, and revocation of
Residential Project 88-4.
Second by Commissoner Wilsey.
Approved 4-1 (Commissioner Kelley in opposition)
-
INFORMATIONAL
1. Joint City Council/Planning Commission study Session
August 30, 1988, at 5:00 p.m., in City Council Chamber.
Chairman Brown reminded everyone not to forget this Study
Session.
Community Development Director Miller commented that City
Council has also scheduled a Study Session at 4:00 p.m.
with the Special Projects Engineer to discuss assessment
districts, particularly the assessment district out in the
Chaney Street area. If any of the Commissioners are
interested in that, they could arrive a little early and sit
in on that Study Session.
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Wilsey:
Commissioner Wilsey would like to have a study session sometime
in the future on permanent housing in R.V. parks.
Commissioner Saathoff:
-
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Ke11ev:
Nothing to report.
Minutes of Planning Commission
August 16, 1988
Page 25
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS - CONTINUED
commissioner Brin1ev:
Nothing to report.
-
Chairman Brown:
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
commission adjourned at 10:25 p.m. Motion by Commissioner
Brinley, second by Commissioner Wilsey.
App~d,
'-"" \
Respectfully submitted:
- ~w~
Acting Planning
Commission secretary
-
-
-
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
6TH
DAY
OF
SEPTEMBER
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Brinley.
ROLL CALL:
-- PRESENT: Commissioners: Kelley, Brinley, Saathoff, and Chairman
Brown
ABSENT:
commissioners: Wilsey
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planner Libiez, and Associate Planners Magee and Last.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve minutes of August 16,
1988, as submitted, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Brown asked the Secretary if there were any requests to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Brown
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
--
1. Zone Change 88-7 - Champion Development - Associate Planner
Magee presented a request to change the zoning from R-l
(Single-Family Residential) to C-2 (General Commercial) in
order to bring the zoning into conformance with the General
Plan Land Use designation of General Commercial. 0.73 acres,
located on the southeast corner of Railroad Canyon Road and
Grape Street.
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:02 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone Change 88-7.
Mr. Greg Sponseller, representing Champion Development, spoke
in favor of the proposal.
Chairman Brown asked if there was anyone else wishing to
speak in favor. Receiving no r7sponse, Chairman Brown asked
if anyone wished to speak 1n opposition. Receiving no
response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak on
the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown closed the
public hearing at 7:04 p.m.
A brief discussion at the table was held on the request being
logical and bringing the zoning into conformance with the
General Plan.
--
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-26 and
Zone Change 88-7, based on the findings listed
Report, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
City Council
approval of
in the Staff
2. Zone Change 88-8 Winston Elsinore LTD. Partnership-
Associate Planner Last presented a request to change the
zoning from Neighborhood Commercial (C-l) to General Com-
mercial (C-2) in order to bring the zoning into conformance
with the General Plan designation of General Commercial.
1.57 acres, located between Casino Drive (Vista Del Lago) and
Mission Trail, approximately 1,000 feet east of Railroad
Canyon Road.
Minutes of Planning Commission
september 6, 1988
Page 2
ZONE CHANGE 88-8 - WINSTON ELSINORE LTD. PARTNERSHIP CONTINUED
Chairman Brown opened the p~blic hearing at 7:05 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak 1n favor of Zone Change 88-8.
Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished
to speak in opposition. Receiving no response, Chairman
Brown asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter.
Receiving no response, Chairman Brown closed the public
hearing at 7:06 p.m. __
A brief discussion at the table was held on the request
bringing the zoning into conformance with the General Plan.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
approval of Zone Change 88-8 based on the findings listed in
the Staff Report, and re-affirm Negative Declaration No.
88-19, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
3. Tentative Tract Map 20296 REVISED - Hillcrest Development _
Associate Planner Last presented a request to revise a
previously approved Tentative Tract Map for sixty-five (65)
residential units that would reduce the total number of lots
to fifty-seven (57) lots. 76.69 acres, located south of
Grand Avenue and west of Ortega Highway.
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:09 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Tentative Tract Map
20296 REVISED.
Mr. Paul Salata, representing Hillcrest Development, stated
that the staff report is accurate, and would like to defer
anything we have to say about our tract map; wait and see if __
there is any further testimony and we could answer questions
at that time, and then we have some questions.
Chairman Brown stated that he sees no problem with that and
asked if there were any objections from the table. Receiving
no objection from the table, Chairman Brown informed Mr.
Salata that he would be called back to the podium.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of Tentative Tract Map 20296 REVISED. Receiving no response,
Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished
to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman
Brown called Mr. Salata back to the podium.
Mr. Salata stated that the Staff Report indicates that we
have an approved tentative map which is correct, but it was
impossible to do based on proper planning, as set by the
City's Ordinances and Codes, therefore, we went about
revising it. We are at the point now, we believe we have
mitigated all of the concerns and are ready to proceed. I
would like to have Fred Crowe, our consultant, go through the
items and, from a professional point of view, point out what
we consider minor adjustments.
-
Mr. Fred Crowe, stated that they did not have a chance to
meet with staff after receiving the conditions, and would
like to request clarification and revision to the following
conditions:
Condition No. 13: Would like to change the verbiage "unless
modified by the Fire Department" to "unless modified by the
agency" .
Condition No. 16: Having trouble interpreting the intent and
Minutes of Planning Commission
september 6, 1988
Page 3
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 20296 REVISED - HILLCREST DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
-
where that easement should go, and asked staff to point out
on the map where that easement should go.
Community Development Director Miller stated that this is a
hold over from the conditions of the original tract map.
There is currently an easement for access along the western
boundary of this property, from Ortega Highway up the hill,
and the condition referred to providing an alternate easement
from the end of the cul-de-sac, so that easement did not come
out onto Ortega Highway.
Mr. Crowe stated that he thinks that this is true, and asked
if it was still the desire to turn that easement some place
into the cul-de-sac area.
-
community Development Director Miller responded or delete it.
Condition No. 16: Grading of a 20-foot wide easement so
access is possible along the lot line. If we encounter a
problem with the owner of the easement, we would like to
clarify that the intent here is not to build a 20-foot road
up that easement, southerly all the way along that easement
to the south property line of this tract. I believe that it
would, basically, be impossible to build over the total area,
the terrain would not yield to that, it would look bad and be
erosive. I do not believe that the easement is placed at a
practical location. We would like to stay in a negotiating
mode with the easement holder and for them to understand that
we are not required to build a road up their easement.
Community Development Director Miller stated that generally
he would agree with Mr. Crowe's comments. Thinks that the
desire of the applicant and staff would be to eliminate that
easement, that may not be possible. I think originally this
condition came from Cal Trans, they did not want an easement
coming out onto Ortega Highway at that point. So perhaps we
could just change the condition that the access easement from
Ortega Highway southerly and along the east boundary of this
tract shall be realigned or abandoned to avoid access onto
Ortega Highway.
Chairman Brown asked Community Development Director Miller if
he wanted the easement abandoned entirely, which would
prevent access to Ortega Highway.
Community Development Director Miller responded that he
believes this would be the preference of everyone.
Chairman Brown suggested that the first sentence of condition
number 16, be amended as follows: "The access easement from
Ortega Highway southerly and along the east boundary of this
property shall be abandoned".
Community Development Director Miller stated that this may
not be possible, it depends upon the cooperation of the
easement holder.
Commissioner Kelley suggested the following verbiage be added
to the first sentence of condition number 16, "shall be
realigned or abandoned".
commissioner Saathoff suggested the following verbiage be
added to the first sentence of condition number 16, "shall be
abandoned or realigned along lot lines".
Commissioner Brinley suggested the following verbiage be
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 6, 1988
Page 4
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 20296 REVISED = HILLCREST DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
added to the first sentence of condition number 16, "shall be
abandoned or realigned to avoid access onto Ortega Highway".
Mr. Crowe stated that he believes that the verbiage "shall be
abandoned or realigned to avoid access onto Ortega Highway"
would be fine, for condition number 16.
Condition No. 18: There was some discussion, basically, the
original subdivision was conditioned with this condition. I
had heard some reservation by staff on whether or not the
City wanted to accept the offer of dedication of Lot A, which
is, basically, a lot of that open space area. Wonders if
staff would prefer verbiage added to the condition "unless
other arrangements are made with the developer".
....
Chairman Brown stated that because of liability problems,
especially with many cities not being able to get liability
insurance; the taking of unusable open space for just
ownership by the city is just an additional liability that we
do not want. In discussion with staff, it was my understand-
ing, that this project was designed around this open space
and possibly you could have used it for development as
opposed to open space, asking Mr. Crowe if this was true.
Mr. Crowe stated that he thinks it was set aside because any
development of it would scar the mountains. It was set aside
not so much for use but for open space.
Mr. Crowe stated that if they can have the condition
something like that, unless other arrangements are made with
the developer, that would leave room for the developer and ....
the Community Development Director to meet on that and see if
there is some option that would meet the needs and the City
and developer.
Community Development Director Miller stated that as
indicated this was the original condition of the tract. In
fact, staff had indicated, the city indicated, that there was
not to be development above a certain elevation, as Mr.
Crowe has indicated, to avoid scarring of hillsides and to
preserve the scenic view around the lake, and until fairly
recently that had been the City's position, this lot would be
dedicated to the City. As you have indicated there has been
some discussion as to whether that is the most desirable
aspect, and I think that will probably we worked out in the
next few months. We would certainly not have any objections
to the wording if all of the arrangements are worked out.
Ultimately, this is going to have receive approval from City
Council prior to recordation of the final map.
Chairman Brown stated that he would like verbiage added "if
the property is not deeded to the City the City be given the
right of ingress/egress to that property".
Condition No. 21: Applicant shall provide solid block or
wrought iron and pilaster walls six (6) foot minimum height
on all sides and rear property lines. There is a condition
in the fire letter for walls along the back property line,
the line that adjoins Lot A. There is also a condition to
meet all city codes, and we know that fencing will be
required. We would like to have room for some ingenuity in
the fencing of these parcels. I think that conditions 5, 13,
20 and 21 all give the City pretty good control over what
kind of walls could be placed there. We would rather not
have this as a condition of the map but evaluated at building
permit stage.
....
Minutes of Planning Commission
september 6, 1988
Page 5
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 20296 REVISED = HILLCREST DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
-
Chairman Brown asked if Associate Planner Last would like to
respond.
Associate Planner Last stated that as far as the solid block
walls on the side and rear property lines this is a standard
condition for all residential tracts, either solid block or
wood fencing. Because of the hill terrain and fire hazards
staff decided to go with something that was less of a fire
hazard, the block wall would accomplish that.
Mr. Crowe stated that there are other walls that might
accomplish the same thing, rather than the block.
Associate Planner Last responded that he believes staff was
more concerned with the wood fencing up in that area. So
brick or other material would satisfy staff.
Chairman Brown asked, Associate Planner Last, when you are
talking about all sides if you are also talking about fencing
between houses.
Associate Planner Last responded in the affirmative.
-
Chairman Brown stated that he wanted to clarify this, you are
saying that all fencing within the project would have to be
block regardless of the exposure to fire hazard.
Associate Planner Last responded in the affirmative.
Condition No. 24: Submit a letter of verification to the
City Engineering Department, from the applicable water
district, stating water and sewer arrangements have been made
for this project prior to recordation of map. I think that
it leaves something to be desired in what are arrangements
and what arrangements have been made. So far, on all the
projects we have been using a "will-serve letter" as those
arrangements, and asked if "will-serve" letter could be added
to the end of the condition in parentheses.
Condition No. 25: Would like condition number 25 to read
the same as condition number 13, pertaining to fire
protection, adding verbiage "unless modified by the agency".
-
Condition No. 33: Comply with the requirements of Riverside
County Flood Control Reports, dated July 24, 1985 and June 6,
1986. I believe that we are beyond those reports now, in the
project, and I believe that they fit in with the map before
revised. I would like to omit this condition, but leave
condition number 34, which states to submit hydrology and
hydraulic studies, necessary master planning, detailed plans
and profiles approved by the Flood Control District, and
provide drainage easements as required by the City Engineer.
I would like to leave this condition in as I believe that it
accomplishes everything in condition number 33, but
accomplishes it with the latest map.
Condition No. 39: This has to do with dedication of right-
of-way and improvements along Ortega Highway. We know that
improvements along State Highways have, for quite a while,
been a standard requirement on most maps. We would like to
have something in the minutes that we objected to this
condition, because we have no access to Ortega Highway and we
think that it is for the use of the general public. We,
basically, disagree with the policy of private development
building general use highways.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 6, 1988
Page 6
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 20296 REVISED = HILLCREST DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
Condition No. 41: Approval from Cal Trans would be necessary
for access to Ortega Highway for the 30-foot ingress and
egress easement prior to recordation of the map. I see no
objection to leaving the condition in. But, just want to
clarify that there is no intent of going out onto the State
Highway.
Chairman Brown stated that this would refer back to condition
number 16.
-
Condition No. 48: The letter from Elsinore Valley Municipal
Water District and their condition. We would like to add the
same verbiage "unless modified by the agency". We believe
that we have some solutions to some of the loop water lines
and some other conditions that are there that are better than
putting those improvements in ortega Highway. We would like
to leave the door open to work those conditions out with the
water district.
Mr. Paul Salata stated that this clearly represents what the
ownership believes is fair and reasonable in this matter.
Chairman Brown asked if there
speak on Tentative Tract Map 20296
response, Chairman Brown closed
p.m.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he would like staff to
address condition number 39.
was anyone else wishing to
REVISED. Receiving no
the public hearing at 7:32
Community Development Director Miller stated that in terms of __
condition number 39, this is a State Highway, but it is also
a major arterial on our circulation plan. In terms of the
question that Mr. Crowe and Mr. Salata addressed it is a
matter of philosophy. It is a long standing policy of this
jurisdiction, and every other jurisdiction, to require
improvements to any abutting highways or streets to a tract.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he has no objection to the
"will-serve letter" on condition number 24.
Commissioner Kelley stated that on condition number 18, the
verbiage "unless other arrangements are made with the
developer" sounds reasonable.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he would like staff to
address condition number 33 and how it relates to condition
number 34.
Community Development
ly it does. Believes
to some particular
drainage that crosses
Director Miller responded that general-
the intent there was to make reference
comments in those letters regarding the
the Ortega Highway.
Commissioner Kelley stated that it would not hurt to leave
it.
-
Community Development
Engineering's intent was
certain things, and we
concern by adding verbiage
Control District".
Director Miller stated that perhaps
to draw particular attention to
could also satisfy the applicant's
"unless modified by the Flood
Commissioner Saathoff stated that those letters were refer-
ring to the original tract map with more lots, and would
agree with the addition of verbiage "unless modified by the
Minutes of Planning Commission
september 6, 1988
Page 7
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 20296 REVISED - HILLCREST DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
-
Flood Control District".
Commissioner Kelley stated that all of the conditions where
Mr. Crowe has requested verbiage "unless modified by the
agency" is fine.
Commissioner Saathoff stated that he has a question on condi-
tion number 39, understands the City's philosophy; wonders if
we could not use some other verbiage other than "construct".
Because it is very probable that he (applicant) would not be
allowed to construct anything in there any way, would he?
Is Cal Trans going to allow him to?
Community Development Director Miller
Trans has indicated to us that they want
required to be constructed.
responded that Cal
those improvements
Commissioner Brinley commented on condition number 21, re-
garding the block wall, stating she was in favor of the block
wall. Because the letter from the Fire Department states
that they are in a fire hazard area, and would like to see
this condition remain as stated.
-
commissioner Brinley commented on condition number 17, re-
garding the final map showing all fault lines with a
prominent note, as well as areas subject to flood hazards.
Would like fire hazard areas added to this condition, since
the Fire Department has stated that it is in a fire hazard
area.
commissioner Saathoff responded to the comments made on
condition number 21, stating rather than leaving the solid
block in there, since we would like the applicant to have the
opportunity to do brick or something else, I would prefer to
have some verbiage "applicant shall provide fire proof type
fencing".
Chairman Brown commented on condition number 21, and asked
staff if it was really necessary to do side yard fencing in
block to prevent fire problems, especially several hundred
feet away from any natural terrain. I can agree with block,
wrought iron, pilaster walls on all street facing and
perimeter walls. But, I do not really agree with having to
have block walls on the interior lots, on side yards.
commissioner Brinley asked Chairman Brown what he would
suggest.
-
Chairman Brown stated that an alternative fencing in between
houses can be used. Chances of fire spreading down fence
lines in between lots are remote, and if the applicant was to
use wrought iron fencing that is not ignitible, but it
certainly does not stop fires. I think that fencing on side
yards, which would run down the length of the house to the
rear property lines could be wood, and I would have no
problem with that at all.
Chairman Brown asked if they make a treated fence, a class
rated wood fence.
Mr. Crowe
that would
different
some type
responded that he doubted if they make anything
be fire proof. However, there have been several
alternatives discussed--concrete walls that have
of facing or tile, there are so many options.
Mr. Crowe stated that another thing that was required in
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 6, 1988
Page 8
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 20296 REVISED - HILLCREST DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
these conditions, that is not in the Fire Department
conditions, but discussed earlier was some type of fire
retardant planting adjacent to this area.
Chairman Brown stated that they would have to do that on most
of the area because of the slope.
Discussion at the table ensued on fencing of perimeter areas
and interior lots, and the type of materials available.
Community Development Director Miller stated that generally
this area of fencing has been under discussion. In addition,
the idea of what are appropriate measures for the protection
of structures adjacent to wild land brush areas is an area
that is evolving rapidly with California Division of Forestry
and the County Fire Department. Perhaps, one method to
approach this is to defer the final design of fencing to the
building review stage and subsume the fencing category under
the requirement for fire protection plan.
-
Community Development Director Miller recommended that condi-
tion number 21, be amended to read: "Fencing shall be
addressed as part of the fire protection plan to have final
approval at building permit stage".
Mr. Buron Murray requested to address the Commission on
fencing, stating that at one time he had an interest in a
concrete block retaining wall. In the higher retaining walls
what we found acceptable, as far as aesthetics, is to take
rebar and extend it up, to whatever distance you want, then
use any hardware cloth, about 3 or 4 inches, with your _
plastic or heavy paper and you gunite that to the shape and
contour that you want for your fence.
Chairman Brown stated that unless the table objects, he would
like to defer this one item to address the concerns that we
have. First of all, primary fire concerns, but in lieu of
discussion the other night, also the street scape. Defer
this item to possibly addressing the fire concern of a non-
combustible wall; the possibility of side yard fencing being
of wood or some other material, perimeter walls not
necessarily being block but any non-combustible material.
Commissioner Saathoff asked about adding
"applicant shall provide non-combustible
area and interior fencing to meet all
ordinances, subject to the review of the
ment Director".
a statement such as:
fencing on perimeter
other city codes and
Community Develop-
Chairman Brown responded that the only problem with that, I
do not know if we can, but I think that the concept is to
start immediately with the block wall on interior lots; on
interior lots I do not mean corner lots within the tract but
interior in between, lot to lot side yard fencing, if it is
exposed to any street that it be block.
Chairman Brown stated that he would defer to the table.
-
Commissioner Brinley stated that she would like to see the
item deferred, so that it can be studied closer.
Chairman Brown stated that he has
proposed change to conditions 24, 25
condition number 33, the items that
33 irrespective of the change would
condition number 34.
no problem with the
and 48. However, on
would remain in condition
still be addressed in
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 6, 1988
Page 9
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 20296 REVISED = HILLCREST DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
Chairman Brown commented on condition number 39, if Cal Trans
is insisting that these improvements be made then they have
you. I did not take your comments negatively, but I think
that we have the right to, and demand the right to, decide
what Cal Trans does within our community, even though it is a
State Highway it affects us directly. I agree, if you could
work out the situation you might be willing to pay in lieu
fees instead of doing those improvements. But I think that
Cal Trans has the first say so in this and we would support
them if they require it.
Chairman Brown stated that he believes that condition number
41 refers to condition number 16.
-
commissioner Saathoff commented on
asking if this condition could not be
covered under condition number 13.
condition number 25,
eliminated as it is
Associate Planner Last stated that staff has no objection
with deleting one of the conditions.
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-31 and approval of
Tentative Tract Map 20296 REVISED, based on the Findings and
subject to the 48 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff
Report with the following amendments:
-
Condition No. 13:
Condition No. 16:
Condition No. 17:
Condition No. 18:
Condition No. 21:
-
Condition No. 24:
Stands as presented in the Staff
Report.
"The existing access easement from
Ortega Highway southerly and along the
east boundary of this proposed tract
shall be abandoned or realigned to
avoid access onto ortega Highway."
"Final Map shall show all geological
fault lines with a prominent note, as
well as areas subject to flood hazard
and fire hazard."
"Applicant will offer Lot "A" to the
City for open space purposes, unless
other arrangements are made with the
City. If the property is not deeded
to the City the City be given the
right of ingress/egress to that
property" .
"Perimeter fencing shall consist of
non-combustible material. All fencing
shall be a minimum of six-foot (6')
high with the materials to be
addressed as part of the fire
protection plan and have final
approval at building permit stage."
"Submit a letter of verification
(will-serve letter) to the City
Engineering Department, from the
applicable water district, stating
that water and sewer arrangements have
been made for this project prior to
recordation of map".
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 6, 1988
Page 10
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 20296 REVISED ~ HILLCREST DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
Condition No. 25:
Condition No. 33:
Condition No. 34:
Condition No. 39:
Condition No. 41:
Condition No. 48:
Provide fire protection facilities as
required in writing by Riverside
County Fire protection. DELETED
Stands as presented in the Staff
Report.
"Submit Hydrology and Hydraulic
Studies, necessary master planning and
detailed plans and profiles of the
proposed flood control facilities to
Riverside County Flood Control
District and to the City Engineer for
review and approval prior to final map
recordation, unless modified by the
agency. Provide drainage easements
as required by the City Engineer."
-
Stands as presented in the Staff
Report.
Stands as presented in the Staff
Report.
"Comply with the requirements of the
Elsinore Valley Municipal Water
District letter dated August 23, 1988,
that are applicable to Tract 20296
REVISED (see Exhibit V), unless
modified by Elsinore Valley Municipal
Water District."
-
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Commissioner Saathoff asked for discussion on condition
number 21, assumes the verbiage is what Chairman Brown
recommended, non-combustible perimeter block on lots next to
the street and then the interior lots meet the current codes
and requirements.
Commissioner Kelley answered in the affirmative.
Chairman Brown recommended that the word "block" be deleted.
Commissioner Kelley asked if the maker of the second was in
agreement.
Commissioner Brinley answered in the affirmative.
There being no further discussion, Chairman Brown called for
the question.
Approved 4-0
At this time, 7:54 p.m., the Commission recessed.
At this time, 8:01 p.m., the Commission reconvened.
-
IT WAS THE CONSENSUS OF THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER PUBLIC HEARING
NUMBER 4 AND BUSINESS ITEM NUMBER 1 CONCURRENTLY.
4. Conditional Use permit 88-10 and Commercial Project 88-12 _
Fugate Enterprises - Associate Planner Magee presented a
request to allow a drive-thru aisle in conjunction with the
construction of a 2,768 square foot fast food restaurant,
0.80 acres, located on the east side of Casino Drive
approximately 800 feet south of Railroad Canyon Road.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 6, 1988
Page 11
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-10 AND COMMERICAL PROJECT 88-12 - FUGATE
ENTERPRISES CONTINUED
~
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 8:06 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Conditional Use Permit
88-10.
Mr. Steve Brown, representing Brookstone Development, stated
they are the master developer for Shopper's Square Phase II,
and we are in favor of this proposal.
Mr. stein, representing Fugate Enterprises, presented photo-
graph illustrating the skylight issue, condition number 19
of Commercial Project 88-12, stating that they have utilized
a glass front to modernize most of our units, and we do try
to maintain the integrity of what is shown in the photograph
with the glass front, and do represent that as being very
similar to what I saw this evening at the Sizzler, directly
adjacent to the site. I feel that our suggestion to utilize
a skylight deviates from that, but felt that it would work
better with the clay tile and the architecture that was
exhibited to us by Mr. Brown, and utilizing the rendering
posted, showed where the skylight would be located.
Chairman Brown stated that the photograph of the store is
fine, except we have a shopping center here that we are
trying to remain consistent with.
.---.
Community Development Director Miller stated that if the
Planning Commission feels that they would like to include
this element, we would suggest the skylight as presented,
rather than the continuous skylight and wall treatment, would
be more appropriate to this building at this location.
Chairman Brown asked Mr. Stein if the there would be a
vaulted ceiling in the dining room area.
Mr. Stein responded in the affirmative.
Chairman Brown asked if it would be less of an impact to have
an opening with the skylight recessed out of the line of
sight.
.---.
Mr. stein stated that he would be in agreement with that
architecturally. The only thing that I would want to insure
is, the fact, that we can design something that would drain
properly. I have no problem with concealing or making those
glass elements at a lower level, but I do not know how you
would do that and adequately drain. This may be a question
that I pose to our architect.
Mr. stein stated that he would like to get an indication,
this evening, as to what he needs to do relative to a glass
front or a skylight treatment to that building.
Chairman Brown stated that this would be brought back to the
table for further discussion.
Mr. Stein commented on condition
Project 88-12, which relates to
building, stating that he is
recommendation.
number 20, of Commercial
the color scheme of the
in full agreement with the
Mr. Stein commented on condition number 21, of Commercial
Project 88-12, which deals with the arch treatment to the
windows. Circulated another photograph depicting the typical
modern Pizza Hut with square windows on the side, stating all
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 6, 1988
Page 12
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-10 AND COMMERICAL PROJECT 88-12 - FUGATE
ENTERPRISES CONTINUED
we have done is try to utilize and maintain some of the
elements of a Pizza Hut restaurant, in this particular
architectural design. If we need to consider something more
relative to the windows on the sides, I certainly would
listen to recommendations. My preference would be to try an
maintain the windows as they are shown on the drawing. __
Commissioner Kelley asked Mr. Stein what his objection was to
the arch way window.
Mr. Stein responded that he does not know if he really has an
objection, besides the fact that it deviates from some
element that has a Pizza Hut look, which we are trying to
maintain. The arch windows have not been used anywhere else
in a Pizza Hut restaurant. If I were to make that change, to
this drawing, I would have to go back to corporate Pizza Hut
and get their blessing, because this building deviates more
dramatically than any other Pizza Hut, and those windows
could be an issue. If there were a way to bring those
columns in and soften that more with the structure of the
wall rather that the structure of the window; this is my
thought to try and soften that element, but not change the
window, again I would turn to you for some recommendations.
Mr. Stein commented on condition number 3, of Conditional Use
Permit 88-10, which relates to the canopy and the recommen-
dation made to extend that canopy to 14 feet by 30 feet.
Presented photograph of one of Pizza Hut's drive up window,
stating the element of the drive up is identical to what was
designed for this unit. __
Commissioner Kelley asked Mr. Stein
restaurants they have with a drive up
they are successful.
Mr. Stein responded that they have four (4) existing units
with drive up windows and they are successful.
how many
window, and
Pizza
asked
Hut
if
Commissioner Brinley asked Mr. Stein if they have any kind of
canopy over them.
Mr. Stein responded that it is exactly like the photograph.
Mr. stein stated that he is not opposed to the idea of some-
thing, but does not know why they need to do a 14 foot
canopy.
Discussion at the
canopy; the drive
rendering posted,
being a policy that
table ensued on the requirement of the
through elevation, referring to the
being relatively stark, and the canopy
the Commission has established.
Chairman Brown asked if there was anyone else wishing to
speak in favor of Conditional Use Permit 88-10. Receiving no
response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak in
opposition. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked if
anyone wished to speak on the matter. Receiving no response,
Chairman Brown closed the public hearing at 8:30 p.m.
~
Commissioner Saathoff asked Associate Planner Magee where the
14 foot by 30 foot canopy would start?
Associate Planner Magee utilizing the rendering
illustrated where the canopy would start.
posted
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 6, 1988
Page 13
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-10 AND COMMERICAL PROJECT 88-12 - FUGATE
ENTERPRISES CONTINUED
commissioner Kelley stated that he was in agreement with the
way staff presented it.
.....
commissioner Brinley stated that
with staff, likes the canopy and
continuity continued.
Chairman Brown stated that the only difference that he would
like to see, and it was required on another project, is to
have the canopy repeated on the other side of the building,
on the entrance.
she was in total agreement
would like to see the
.....
Chairman Brown stated that he would like to see Mr. stein
work out the skylight situation. I can understand why you
want them, but the Commission does not want to see them on
the top of the building. Also, the architecture and color
scheme should be consistent with the commercial project
abutting this project.
Chairman Brown stated that he believes that the arch effect
could be added outside of the windows independent of those on
all sides. Believes that there is enough room by, possibly,
extending the overhang or the actual windows themselves.
Associate Planner Magee stated that he believes that this
could be accomplished, and in order to provide the applicant
more light he could perhaps lower the window ledge and
actually get more light into the restaurant, as this seems to
be a major concern.
Associate Planner Magee asked if the Commission would like to
see the skylights on the front elevation or on one of the
side elevations, as simulated in the Sizzler restaurant. I
believe that Mr. Stein wishes to put it on the front, and
staff feels that this would be very inconsistent with what is
out there right now.
Chairman Brown stated that his thoughts on it was to
disguised those skylights within the architecture; if it is
impossible, the applicant can bring it back. If it is some-
thing that everyone can't agree on then we will have to deal
with it, at that point in time. My feeling is that we would
like to make available the natural light, but not interfere
with the architecture.
.....
Associate Planner Magee asked if we
subject to the approval of the
Director, and if we can not resolve
back to the Commission as an appeal.
Chairman Brown responded that this was his opinion.
could put that in as
Community Development
that then it would come
Mr. stein stated that he believes that it is critical for the
location of the skylights to be on the front, because that is
where the dining area is in the restaurant.
Commissioner Kelley asked Chairman Brown how large of a
canopy he wanted in the front?
Chairman Brown stated
the area that has flat
supports would have to
to be safe.
that he envisioned something covering
work, does not know how far the
be recessed back from the curbing edge
Associate Planner Magee, utilizing
the
rendering posted,
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 6, 1988
Page 14
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-10 AND COMMERICAL PROJECT 88-12 - FUGATE
ENTERPRISES CONTINUED
stated that we could
within six inches
come all the way out
of the flat area.
actually bring it all the way up to
of the sidewalk area. The canopy would
in front of the sidewalk and shade all
Commissioner Saathoff stated that he could not visualize the __
canopy on the front, with this projection out seven feet.
Mr. Stein stated that the projection was six feet.
Discussion at the table ensued on the dimension of canopy.
Commissioner Saathoff stated that he does not object to the
skylights, thinks that architecturally any other treatment
with this design would not be proper. Definitely in favor of
the window treatment and the arches. I agree with the canopy
over the rear, but do not agree with the canopy over the
front.
Commissioner Brinley stated that if the applicant is going to
do some type of skylight or decorative window treatment,
would like to have it kept with the same theme that the
Sizzler used, and on the side of the building.
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to recommend adoption of
Negative Declaration No. 88-24 and approval of Conditional
Use Permit 88-10 based on the Findings and subject to the 4
Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report, second by
Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0 __
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-24 and approval of
Commercial Project 88-12 based on the Findings and subject to
the 46 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report with
the deletion of condition number 19.
Motion failed for lack of second.
Motion by Chairman Brown to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-24 and approval of
Commercial Project 88-12 based on the Findings and subject to
the 46 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report with
the following amendments:
Condition No. 19:
"Skylights and street elevations shall
be architecturally hidden, if possi-
ble, with the design subject to the
approval of the Community Development
Director."
Condition No. 21:
"The front door and windows shall
include arch and border treatments
consistent with the center theme as
illustrated in Exhibit "L".
-
Second by Commissioner Saathoff.
Mr. Stein stated that he has a question that relates back to
the balancing the canopy on the other side of the building.
Chairman Brown stated that this was not included
motion so it is not there. The front canopy was not
the back canopy is there as illustrated.
in the
added,
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 6, 1988
Page 15
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-10 AND COMMERICAL PROJECT 88-12 - FUGATE
ENTERPRISES CONTINUED
.....
There being no further discussion at the table, Chairman
Brown called for the question.
Approved 4-0
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Commercial project 88-12 - Fugate Enterprises - Considered
and acted upon with PUBLIC HEARING NUMBER 4.
2. sign Program for Commercial Project 88-5 - In-N-Out Burger -
Associate Planner Magee presented for review and approval the
Master Sign Program for Commercial Project 88-5 in accordance
with Design Review Condition Number 12, located on the
southwest corner of Grape Street and Railroad Canyon Road.
Associate Planner Magee stated the Staff Report indicates
that the applicant has proposed two (2) double faced
directional signs, when in fact the applicant has requested
three (3) signs. Staff is in agreement with this request and
recommends approval of the Sign Program with three (3) double
faced directional signs.
Mr. WorleYmeyer, representing williams Sign Company, stated
that they were in full accordance with staff recommendation,
and would answer any questions.
.....
There being no discussion at the table, Chairman Brown called
for a motion.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to approve Sign Program for
Commercial Project 88-5 based on the Findings and subject to
the 3 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report, with
the only change being in the project description that three
(3) directional signs be included, second by Commissioner
Brinley.
Approved 4-0
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Kellev:
Nothing to report.
commissioner Saathoff:
.....
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Brinlev:
There are tires being stacked up along the side of the building
closest to the inflow channel, at the Lucky Tire on Graham
Avenue, and I thought that the tires were to be enclosed.
There is a lot on Chaney, on the corner of Strickland, where the
weeds are very high.
We are getting more and more questions about the conditions that
come from the Engineering Department. I honestly believe to
answer these questions, and to give the applicant full
Minutes of Planning Commission
september 6, 1988
Page 16
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
satisfaction, someone should be here, at our meetings, represent-
ing the Engineering Department.
Chairman Brown:
Thanked the other Commissioners; it has been very obvious that
they are spending more and more time looking at these projects,
not that they weren't before, but they are spending a great deal
of time looking at the details.
Would like to thank City Council for the best study session that
I have ever attended.
-
We spend a lot of time discussing irrigation, planting and
land~caping of large projects. One thing that the County
requ1res, and I think that it is a long time overdue for us, is
to require all landscape areas be bonded, not only for faithful
performance of the work but labor and material. Because several
of the recent projects promised that they were going to do so
much on the landscaping and they just let it die. I think that
they should not only be required to put in the improvements, but
bond for maintenance for one year. If they don't they would
loose their labor/material bonds and the City would go back and
re-plant them.
On renderings in the future, I do not want to see any more
renderings, and I know that members of the Commission do not want
to see renderings, that do not represent the project in every
detail. I want to see all planting at either the time of
planting or no more six month maturity, instead of what it is
going to look like in 35 years. Also, I want the surrounding _
areas to be un-highlighted and only the project highlighted in
the rendering. The rendering must reflect the project in color
and architecture, and the planting details must represent what is
on the landscaping plan at planting time or six months maturity
or less.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 8:53 p.m. Motion by Commissioner
Brinley, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
RespectfullY~Ubmitted,
~;U~
Linda Grindstaff ~
Planning Commission
Secretary
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
20TH
DAY
OF
SEPTEMBER
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:01 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Community Development Director
Miller.
-
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: Commissioners: Kelley, Brinley, Saathoff, Wilsey and
Brown
ABSENT: Commissioners: None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planner Libiez, and Associate Planners Magee and Last.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve minutes of September 6,
1988, as submitted, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0 Commissioner Wilsey abstaining
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Brown asked the Secretary if there were any requests to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Brown
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
-
1. Tentative Parcel Map 23400 - Gary & Audrey Adele Easley -
Senior Planner Libiez presented proposal to divide one (1)
existing parcel into three (3) lots varying in size from .5
acre to .7 acre, 1.17 acres, located on the northeast corner
of Gunnerson Avenue and Turnbull Avenue.
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:04 p.m. asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Tentative Parcel Map
23400.
Mr. Gary Easley, applicant, spoke in favor of the proposal.
Chairman Brown asked if there was anyone else wishing to
speak in favor. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked
if anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving no
response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak on
the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown closed the
pUblic hearing at 7:06 p.m.
A brief discussion was held at the table on whether or not
information on the percolation test for this site had been
received.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-27 and approval of
Tentative Parcel Map 23400 based on the Findings and subject
to the 18 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report,
second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 5-0
IT WAS THE CONSENSUS OF THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER PUBLIC HEARING
NUMBER 2 AND BUSINESS ITEM NUMBER 1 CONCURRENTLY.
2. Conditional Use Permit 88-11 and Commercial Project 88-14 -
The J Company/Joel Burnstine Associate Planner Magee
presented proposal to allow a gas station, mini-mart and a
full service carwash to be constructed on 1.01 acres, located
on the east side of Casino Drive approximately 1,500 feet
south of Railroad Canyon Road.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 20, 1988
Page 2
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-11 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-14 - THE ~
COMPANY/JOEL BURNSTINE CONTINUED
Associate Planner Magee requested that conditions 32 and 34
of Commercial Project 88-14 be amended as follows:
Condition No. 32: "The applicant may use TEX-COTE
rather than stucco, however, the
texture will be subject to the
approval of the Community
Development Director. If the
TEX-COTE treatment does not meet
the satisfaction of the
Community Development Director
the applicant shall apply stucco
to the building, prior to the
release of utilities and
Certificate of Occupancy."
Condition No. 34: "The office windows on the south
elevation shall be recessed
twelve inches (12"), evidence of
this shall be contained in
building plans."
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:10 p.m. asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Conditional Use Permit
88-11.
Mr. Steve Brown, representing Brookstone Development, stated
that they are the master developer for Shopper's Square Phase
II, and we are in favor of this proposal.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of Conditional Use Permit 88-11.
Mr. Joel Burnstine, representing The J Company, commented on
the following conditions:
Amended Condition No. 32, we have agreed because we are quite
confident in our ability to use TEX-COTE; we are quite
confident that it is a better product for our particular use,
because carwashes expose the building to constant moisture
and TEX-COTE holds up better. We have provided a sample of
TEX-COTE to the Planning Department, and our agreement with
the Planning Department is that we would apply TEX-COTE to
the building to satisfy them using our sample as the
standard. The Planning Department has agreed that this
representative sample would be an acceptable texture. We
would like to see some wording added, into the amendment of
condition number 32, that relates to the sample we have
provided and that that sample will be the standard that we
will have to meet.
Condition NO.2, relating to the re-eva1uation of the Condi-
tional Use Permit for a period of every two years. We are
concerned -- in a carwash the particular issue is noise
attenuation. We will build to today's standards, but as
today's standards change, if they change, then we would want
to know that we would be held to today's standards.
Condition No.3, providing a site specific noise attenuation
study for both day and night operation. We are not going to
develop the project so that it will operate at night,
therefore, we do not want to be held to night time operation
standards.
Mr. Burnstine stated that he would answer any questions the
Commission may have.
-
-
-
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 20, 1988
Page 3
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-11 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-14 - THE ~
COMPANY/JOEL BURNSTINE CONTINUED
~
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to
of Conditional Use Permit 88-11. Receiving
Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak
Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked if
to speak on the matter.
Ms. Earline DuFault, 31750 Machado Street, stated that at one
time they approached the City about putting a carwash on
Lakeshore Drive. At that point in time, they said that the
traffic that the carwash would constitute would be too heavy
for the area, at Lakeshore Drive. My concern is how you can
put it among retail commercial buildings with all of the
traffic going in and out without it being a problem to the
other businesses in the area. Across the street, I
understand, the City turned down a gentlemen that wanted to
put a carwash there, he was turned down because of the noise
factor. Again, I wonder how a carwash could go in this
particular area without it being a noise factor for the other
businesses around it or the traffic going to and from, in
and out.
speak in favor
no response,
in opposition.
anyone wished
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak on the
matter.
Mr. Mike Sullivan, 22285 Lemon Street, asked what kind of
impact this is going to have on the sewer system, due to the
volume and consumption of water that would be involved with
this project.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak on the
matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown closed the
public hearing at 7:18 p.m.
commissioner Brinley commented on the water
system, asking about its affect if we should have
situation.
reclamation
a drought
Mr. Burnstine stated the system they are proposing to install
will recycle upwards to 85% of the water that we use. We are
building for a drought situation, if we did not have a
re-claim system the project would be too expensive to build.
~
Commissioner Brinley stated that her concern is the noise
factor, blower for the carwash. Asked what noise abatement
would be used for the other machinery?
Mr. Burnstine stated that the loudest noise producer is the
blower. There are sound attenuation packages that the
manufacturer provides that will allow us to meet, if not
exceed, the noise attenuation standards established by the
City. One of the conditions for use is that we meet those
standards. As far as noise attenuation for other portions of
the carwash operation the building and equipment room is
designed with insulation in the walls, as necessary. So you
won't hear the operation of any pump from the outside of the
building.
Commissioner Brinley asked Mr. Burnstine about the noise
impact on surrounding businesses.
Mr. Burnstine responded they anticipate that the noise from
the carwash will be at background level or below. We have
provided a noise study that shows the decibel level at
specific distances, and we are primarily concerned with one
end.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 20, 1988
Page 4
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-11 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-14 - THE ~
COMPANY/JOEL BURNSTINE CONTINUED
Commissioner Brinley asked Mr. Burnstine after the TEX-COTE
is done and for some reason it does not work, will the stucco
go over that without any problem?
Mr. Burnstine responded in the affirmative.
Commissioner Brinley asked about the hours of operation.
--
Mr. Burnstine responded that they would be open seven days a
week, 7:00 a.m. to dark or 6:00 depending on the time of
year.
Commissioner Kelley commented on the traffic concern, stating
that this has been properly mitigated within the plaza. The
whole circulation pattern in that area is adequate at this
time.
Commissioner Kelley recommended that condition number 6, be
added to Conditional Use Permit 88-11, which will read:
"daylight hours only 7:00 a.m. to dark".
Commissioner Kelley stated that he had no
deleting the words "night time" from condition
Conditional Use Permit 88-11.
objection to
number 3 of
commissioner Wilsey asked if the noise study provided by the
applicant is adequate.
Associate Planner Magee responded in the negative. That
study is an excerpt from another building that The J Company __
did, and the condition requires that they do a site specific
study, which would mean build the building and then test it.
Commissioner Wilsey asked if the landscaping proposed by the
applicant will be enough to be a noise inhibitor for the sur-
rounding location.
Associate Planner Magee stated that not only will they have a
five-foot (5') landscape buffer on the one side, they will
have a five-foot (5') wall and another five-feet (5') of
landscaping on the other side, so staff feels that this will
be adequate attenuation.
Chairman Brown commented on Mr. Burnstine's concern on condi-
tion number 2 of Conditional Use Permit 88-11, stating that
he would not be held accountable for new conditions that
might come up in the next two years, just the conditions of
approval of this project at the time of acceptance.
Mr. Burnstine asked for clarification on the hours of
operation. As the demand grows, it is possible, we may want
to be open 24 hours for gasoline and market operations.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he was referring to the car-
wash itself being operated from 7:00 a.m. to dark.
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to adopt Negative Declaration
88-28 and approve Conditional Use Permit 88-11 based on the
Findings and subject to the Conditions of Approval listed in
the Staff Report, with the following amendments:
-
Condition No.3:
"The developer shall incorporate
noise mitigation measures in the
design of the carwash as
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 20, 1988
Page 5
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 88-11 AND COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-14 - THE ~
COMPANY/JOEL BURNSTINE CONTINUED
-
recommended by a certified
acoustical engineer prior to
occupancy. The developer shall
provide a site specific noise
attenuation study for day oper-
ation to demonstrate compliance
with City Standards. The study
shall be conducted by a certi-
fied acoustical engineer."
Condition No.6:
"Hours of operation for the
carwash shall be daylight hours
only, 7:00 a.m. to dark."
Second by Commissioner Saathoff.
Approved 5-0
Chairman Brown asked for discussion on Commercial Project
88-14.
commissioner Brinley stated her concerns are as previously
stated.
Mr. Burnstine stated that he was only concerned about the
question regarding the TEX-COTE sample, that this become the
standard.
-
Chairman Brown informed Mr. Burnstine that this would be
addressed under this proposal.
Commissioner Saathoff asked Mr. Burnstine to describe the
TEX-COTE application; asked if this was to be applied over
metal, as the sample provided, and if the metal was treated.
Mr. Burnstine answered in the affirmative.
commissioner Saathoff stated that he has a problem with the
TEX-COTE, not so much with the appearance because I believe
that you can accomplish that. I am concerned about this
being applied on etched metal, as it does tend to peel. If
this is not satisfactory to the Planning Department, and you
had to apply a stucco coat over that, I am concerned with the
adhering of two coats.
Mr. Burnstine stated that, first of all, we won't have raw
edges, all of the edges will be finished, and then gave a
description on the application of TEX-COTE.
-
Commissioner Wilsey commented on the applicant's request to
utilize the TEX-COTE sample as the standard they have to
meet, and asked Community Development Director Miller for his
opinion on this.
Community Development Director Miller stated
indicated to the applicant that a finish
would be sufficient to meet our concerns.
that staff had
like the sample
Commissioner Saathoff asked Community Development Director
Miller if he thought it would be necessary to add a statement
to amended condition number 32, "at the direction of the
Community Development Director the TEX-COTE might have to be
removed". Do you think this is a necessity or not, to apply
the stucco, or are you satisfied that the stucco can be
applied over the TEX-COTE.
Minutes of Planning Commission
september 20, 1988
Page 6
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-14 = THE ~ COMPANY/JOEL BURNSTINE CONTINUED
Community Development Director Miller responded provided ade-
quate preparation of the surface is given, yes.
Commissioner Kelley asked about the approximate life span of
TEX-COTE.
Chairman Brown responded that they advertise 30 years.
Chairman Brown asked Mr. Burnstine about the dry-off area,
what type of paving will be provided, what type of material?
--
Mr. Burnstine responded that they have not determined this,
but will probably callout concrete.
Chairman Brown stated that he would like to callout concrete.
Chairman Brown asked
auto rental business,
example and Exhibit
business.
Mr. Burnstine if he intended to run an
a little later, referring to photograph
"J" which illustrates an auto rental
Mr. Burnstine responded in the negative.
Chairman Brown asked Mr. Burnstine about the enclosures for
the tunnel, for night time, what are they going to be--how is
the tunnel going to be secured?
Mr. Burnstine responded pull down doors or roll down gates.
Chairman Brown asked Associate Planner Magee if this was
included with the application submission. __
Associate Planner Magee responded in the negative, stating
that this had not been discussed and he was not aware of it.
Chairman Brown recommended that a tunnel enclosure consis-
tent with the building architecture and color be added as
condition number 46.
Chairman Brown inquired about the ingress/egress for gas only
purchases.
Mr. Burnstine stated that the common driveway, the west end
driveway, is designed specifically for egress only.
Chairman Brown commented on amended condition number 34,
recessing the office windows twelve inches, asked Associate
Planner Magee if this will be consistent with what we want to
see in the architecture.
Associate Planner Magee responded that staff still does not
feel that it will be consistent. But in order to minimize
their impact, the architect indicated that they could recess
them twelve inches. Our goal was to reduce the impact and
still give the applicant what he wanted.
Chairman Brown commented on the landscaping plan, stating
that he was not satisfied with it, feels that the landscaping
looks pretty sparse. Asked if everyone was satisfied with
the landscaping plan, or if there were any comments from the
table.
-
Commissioner Brinley stated that she thinks the landscaping
looks sparse, there is a lot of cement.
Minutes of Planning Commission
september 20, 1988
Page 7
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-14 = THE ~ COMPANY/JOEL BURNSTINE CONTINUED
Chairman Brown stated that he would like to see the landscap-
ing plan revised and brought back.
-
Chairman Brown stated that his concerns are: across the front
of the building; the area between the gas pumps and the
street, both areas face Casino Drive. What I am looking for
is something in the area of what we have requested before on
this type of long building; elevated planters or something of
that nature along the building, rather than just ground
level. Also, extensive mounding, as much as possible, in the
distance provided in the areas between Casino Drive and the
gas pumps.
Discussion at the table ensued on location of landscaping for
the project, utilizing the renderings posted.
Chairman Brown asked for the location of the disposal equi-
ment for the re-claim system.
Mr. Burnstine responded that the
staggered pit located in the front
ground.
disposal
of the
equipment is a
building under-
Chairman Brown recommended the addition of the following
conditions:
-
Condition No. 45: "Concrete paving shall be pro-
vided for the dry-off area."
Condition No. 46: "Impervious enclosures consis-
tent with the color, architec-
ture and style of the building,
for both ends of the tunnel,
shall be provided."
Mr. Burnstine asked that this condition be defined.
Chairman Brown responded roll type doors, nothing that you
can put your hand through.
Chairman Brown asked for and received the consensus of the
Commission in regards to the addition of condition number 47,
which reads as follows:
Condition No. 47:
-
"The landscaping area between
the gas pumps and Casino Drive
shall have multi elevation, and
the planters along the front,
which would be the south
elevation, be elevated to a
height of two-feet (2').
Commissioner Kelley suggested that Chairman Brown put his
recommended additions in the form of a motion.
Chairman Brown stated that he will make that in the form of a
motion; recommend to City Council adoption of Negative
Declaration 88-28 and approval of Commercial Project 88-14
based on the Findings and sUbject to the 50 Conditions of
Approval listed in the Staff Report with the amendment to
condition number 32 and 34, as stated in the memorandum, and
with the addition of conditions 45, 46 and 47 as stated
above.
Commissioner Brinley asked for clarification on condition 46,
type of enclosure to be provided.
Minutes of Planning Commission
september 20, 1988
Page 8
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-14 - THE ~ COMPANY/JOEL BURNSTINE CONTINUED
Chairman Brown stated that he did not hear any major objec-
tions, at the table, to the type proposed by the applicant.
Commissioner Kelley asked if staff had a recommendation on
the type of enclosure.
Commissioner Saathoff stated that as the Chairman suggested __
it is only going to be down at night, after dark, it is not
going to be seen.
Commissioner Wilsey stated that what he had in mind was roll
down doors, like you see in industrial units.
Commissioner Brinley and Chairman Brown stated this is what
they would like to see, and the color be consistent with the
building.
Mr. Burnstine stated that his problem with this is it is at
night, it is not something that we are going to see.
Chairman Brown stated that he would amend his motion to the
consensus of the table, see through or non see through doors.
Commissioners Kelley, Brinley, and Wilsey stated non see
through doors.
Second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 5-0
At this time, 8:00 p.m., the Commission recessed.
At this time, 8:10 p.m., the Commission reconvened.
--
3. Amendment 88-8 City of Lake Elsinore - Community Development
Director Miller presented proposal to amend Section 17.82.100
of the Lake Elsinore Municipal Code regarding Minor Design
Review to designate the Planning Commission rather than the
Community Development Director as the reviewing authority for
additions to commercial and industrial structures, new
single-family detached dwellings and duplexes, which would
apply city-wide.
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 8:15 p.m. asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Amendment 88-8. Receiv-
ing no response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to
speak in opposition. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown
asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter. Receiving no
response, Chairman Brown closed the public hearing at 8:15
p.m.
There being no discussion at the table, Chairman Brown called
for a motion.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-33 and
Amendment 88-8, as specified in Exhibit "A",
Findings listed in the Staff Report, second by
Kelley.
Approved 5-0
City Council
approval of
based on the
Commissioner
--
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Commercial Project 88-14 The J Company/Joel Burnstine _
Considered and acted upon with PUBLIC HEARING NUMBER 2.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 20, 1988
Page 9
2. Industrial Project 88-2 - Brookstone Development - Associate
Planner Magee presented proposal to construct a 11,860 square
foot building, 0.69 acres, located on the south side of Birch
Street approximately 770 feet west of Minthorn Street.
Commissioner Wilsey commented on the landscaping and asked if
-- it was up to what we wanted to see.
Chairman Brown stated that he believes that it is representa-
tive of the site plan and that we also have a landscaping
plan.
Associate Planner Magee stated that the colored site plan is
fairly representative of the landscaping plan. The only
difference would be the deletion of one parking space in the
front and that would add extra area for landscaping. The
applicant has continued the street tree pattern of using
Magnolia trees, that is going to be consistent along Third
and Birch.
commissioner Brinley asked if staff's concerns on the height
of the building have been resolved.
Associate Planner Magee responded in the affirmative.
commissioner Brinley asked if staff's concerns on the loading
area and trash enclosure have been resolved.
Associate Planner Magee stated that the loading area was not
discussed.
~
Mr. Brown, representing Brookstone Development, stated that
he and Associate Planner Magee did discuss the elevations of
the building, but not sure what we agreed on.
Associate Planner Magee stated that the pad elevation of the
existing building and this proposed building are to be the
same, as indicated in both the approved grading plan and the
grading plan for this project. However, the already
constructed project is at a height of 19' 6", whereas, this
project was proposed at 20'0". It was our"agreement that we
would reduce it enough so that it would be even.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she has a real concern about
the uses that go in there and what you, the applicant, would
like to see go in there. Asked Mr. Brown about the uses that
are being proposed for this building, are we talking light
manufacturing, something that will have a tax base for us
here in the City.
Mr. Brown responded that they
have a tenant, but most likely
There is a possibility that it
anything that is allowed in the
desire to help build up the tax
are not sure, as they do not
warehousing of some sort.
could be light manufacturing,
M-1 Zone. It would be our
base.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-29 and approval of
Industrial Project 88-2 based on the Findings and subject to
the 34 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report,
second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
3. Street Abandonment 88-3 - Cleveland Investment Company, Inc.
- Chairman Brown stated that we have a memorandum from the
Engineering Department requesting that this item be
continued, due to additional information coming from
Riverside County involving projects they are approving along
Dexter Avenue.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 20, 1988
Page 10
STREET ABANDONMENT 88-3 - CLEVELAND INVESTMENT COMPANY. INC.
CONTINUED
A brief discussion was held at the table on whether or not
this project should be continued to a specific date.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to continue Street
ment 88-3 to the meeting of October 4, 1988, second
missioner Wilsey.
Approved 5-0
Abandon-
by Com-
....
INFORMATIONAL
1. Fire Hazard Reduction - Associate Planner Last gave a brief
introduction and presented a slide show on Fire Resistant
Environments.
Discussion was held on roof vents; development of foothills
around the City; fire resistant vegetation; areas abutting
National Forests and whether or not there is anything that
can be done to abate the old growth within a certain distance
of development; fire resistant fencing; addressing fire
issues, as contained in the memorandum dated March 30, 1988,
in the General Plan.
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Community Development Director Miller reminded the Planning
Commission that this Saturday, September 24, at 9:00 a.m., we
have a Joint Study Session with City Council to discuss the
Cottonwood Hills Specific Plan. This week we will be circulating __
some additional information regarding the Specific Plan. You
will also be receiving copies of the Fiscal Impact Report and
Annexation Report.
Cottonwood Hills, Specific Plan, is a major project--2,000 acres,
4,000 homes. The documents on that will be going to pUblic
hearing in the next couple of months.
Alberhill Ranch, we have circulated to you the Notice of Prepara-
tion of an Environmental Impact Report. Again, a project of
similar scope, approximately 1,800 acres about 3,600 homes
proposed. We will probably be in the same situation, as we are
now, receiving documents and going to hearings next Spring and
Summer.
If you have any questions or concerns, please transmit them to
staff.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Wilsey:
Multi Purpose Trails--I attended a public meeting, about ten days
ago, put on by Premier Homes. During the course of that meeting
it was mentioned, by the individual representing them, that they
were aware of the multi purpose trail system that would go
through their area, but they did not have much criteria from the
City, with regards to what we really expected of them. I would
like to suggest that staff contact the City of Yorba Linda and
get some of their specific criteria. I would also hope that our
City Council, in the very near future, would consider establish-
ing another trail committee, and get it going in some of the
other areas. We need to have a committee going so that we can
tie all of this in, address future needs: bicycle trails, hiking
trails and that sort of trail system throughout the community.
....
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 20, 1988
Page 11
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
.....
commissioner Kelley:
Asked if the Multi Purpose Trail was not part of the General Plan
and if it could be adopted into the General Plan.
Community Development Director Miller answered in the
affirmative, and stated that we currently have a Bicycle Trail
System as part of the General Plan. It is our intent to address
Multi Purpose Trails as part of the General Plan revision that we
would be presenting to the General Plan Advisory Committee.
commissioner Brinlev:
The shopping center on Dexter and Central, concerning Mobil oil.
I believe that we gave them until October 1 to either have
something or start hydroseeding. What is the status?
Associate Planner Magee responded that the Commission allowed
Brookstone Development a three month extension on their agreement
to hydroseed the vacant pad in front of the Dexter street center,
which would be reserved for Mobil oil. Mobil oil has submitted
for building plan check, they are back for corrections and staff
is waiting for those plans to be re-submitted. The way the
condition read, the project was to have commenced construction or
the planting material was to be in by October 1.
Commissioner Brinley stated we gave them the three month
extension that they wanted, we were more than flexible. If they
do not have it, I would like to see hydroseeding take place
October 1, at 8:00 a.m. Asked if staff had heard from Mobil oil.
.....
Associate Planner Magee responded that he has heard
oil and they have every intention of expediting the
it would satisfy the Commission's concerns, perhaps,
send a reminder letter to Brookstone Development.
from Mobil
process. If
staff could
Commissioner Brinley asked how the table felt about this.
It was the consensus of the Commission that staff send a reminder
letter to Brookstone Development.
On the corner of Townsend and Sumner, there is construction of a
new home, what I really want to know is why the homes surrounding
it, such as on Townsend, have curb and gutter and the homes on
Matich, 218 and 220 Matich, have no curb, gutters or sidewalks,
and they have been there for over three years.
Community Development Director Miller stated that without looking
at the specific projects he could not answer this directly. But
the city did go through a period of time which it was not
requiring installation of street improvements. This issue was
addressed, about three years ago, discontinuing the practice of
allowing homes to go in without street improvements, except in
situations where it was deemed impractical by the City Engineer
and Community Development Director.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she would like to have this
looked into.
commissioner Saathoff:
In reference to landscaping, this has been brought
of the past meetings, asked staff if they wanted
criteria. Do you want something more specific than
the Landscape Guidelines?
up at several
more direct
what is in
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 20, 1988
Page 12
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
Community Development Director Miller stated that staff is aware
of Planning Commission and City Council concerns regarding
landscaping. The Landscape Guidelines generally do not address
themselves to some of these issues, but provides more specifics
towards installation and general guidelines toward landscape
design.
Chairman Brown:
.....
If we were to enact something that I discussed last week, we
could eliminate all of this discussion, bond for those
improvements. We could go back to those developments in six
months or a year and if their ground level vegetation is gone
take their bond money and re-plant it for them. I think that this
would be an incentive for them to maintain the landscaping. If
they post a faithful performance, material and labor bond at the
time landscaping is installed they get their faithful performance
bond released, but the material and labor bond stays in force for
one year.
Commissioner Wilsey asked if this was something that could be
discussed at a Joint Study Session.
Commissioner Saathoff stated that we could make a recommendation.
Chairman Brown suggested that a recommendation be made directly
to City Council.
Commissioner Saathoff stated that we can request that this be
shown as a condition, and when it goes to City Council they can
accept or reject it.
Commissioner Kelley and Commissioner Wilsey stated that they were
in favor of adding it as a condition.
...-
Discussion at the table ensued on bonding for landscape improve-
ments; maintenance of landscaping and whether it was covered
elsewhere in the code, and code enforcement problems.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 9:13 p.m. Motion by Commissioner
Brinley, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
~
APprove~,~
Jeff B~: ~
Chairman
.....
Respectfully
~nd:taff
Planning Commission
Secretary
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
4TH
DAY
OF
OCTOBER
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner wilsey.
ROLL CALL:
-- PRESENT: Commissioners: Kelley, Brinley, Saathoff, Wilsey and
Brown
ABSENT:
commissioners: None
Also present were Senior Planner Libiez and Associate Planner
Magee.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to approve minutes of September
20, 1988, as submitted, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Brown asked the Secretary if there were any requests to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Brown
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
NONE
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Street Abandonment 88-3 Cleveland Investment Company -
Senior Planner Libiez presented request for abandonment of
excess right-of-way on Dexter Place and Allen Street.
Determination that abandonment would conform to the General
Plan. Dexter Place - an 80 foot wide by 600 foot long
street, abutting Cal Trans I-15 right-of-way, lying between
Central Avenue and Crane Street northerly of I-15.
Mr. Neil Cleveland, Cleveland Investment Company, stated that
he concurs with staff, and just wanted to make one clarifi-
cation that the five (5) conditions would be a part of the
processing of the parcel map.
Chairman Brown asked if Senior Planner Libiez would like to
respond.
Senior Planner Libiez stated that Mr. Cleveland's understand-
ing is correct, that is the intent of the way the conditions
have been levied and agreed to by the City Engineer.
A brief discussion was held at the table on the area in
question, part of it being concrete at the present time.
-
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
approval of Abandonment 88-3, based on the Findings and
subject to the 5 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff
Report, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
2. Monument Sign Black Sea Cafe (Zizi Carasimu) - Senior
Planner Libiez presented a request to construct an internally
illuminated monument sign t~ serve an existing restaurant.
24 plus/minus foot located 1n planter between Lakeshore
access drive and Fraser Street at the northwesterly corner of
the intersection of Fraser Drive and Lakeshore Drive.
Minutes of Planning Commission
October 4, 1988
Page 2
MONUMENT SIGN = BLACK SEA CAFE (ZIZI CARASIMU) CONTINUED
Mr. Zizi Carasimu stated that his concern is with the
changeable letters and the name of the restaurant on the
monumental sign, condition number 2.
Commissioner Wilsey stated that he does not agree with the
change of letters, feels it is not appropriate in that type
of signage.
-
Commissioner Wilsey stated that there are a couple of signs
on the building, one fronting Lakeshore and one fronting
Fraser, and they all say the same thing. I do not know how
it would pertain to him, this is a suggestion, but would it
be possible to allow him the opportunity to change some of
the wording on those other signs?
Commissioner Saathoff stated that he has to agree with the
Sign Ordinance. It would be my suggestion, perhaps, to
change the word "cafe" to "restaurant" on the two existing
signs.
Commissioner Saathoff stated that you also have
opportunity, under the temporary sign portion of the
Ordinance, to advertise by inside window banners.
the
Sign
Mr. Carasimu stated that he does not have windows which would
allow banners to be placed inside for promotional purposes,
and you have to have a permit for banner signs and they can
only be up for a certain length of time.
Senior Planner Libiez stated that as long as he does not
exceed the maximum permitted square footage of signs on the __
building it way be possible that we could work out some place
on the building area, or adjacent to an entrance, where he
could have a directory type sign.
Commissioner Kelley stated one suggestion is to have the name
of the restaurant and then maybe where the changeable letters
go have permanent letters that say restaurant.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she agrees with staff. It
would not bother me if he wanted to put restaurant up on top,
big letters, and Black Sea Cafe down below, but I do not like
the interchangeable letters and I do not particularly care
for the cocktails/dancing.
Chairman Brown stated that he disagrees with the other Com-
missioners about the cocktails/dancing, and the reason being
other firms in town are allowed to list what they serve. I
do not see any problem with having cocktails/dancing on the
side, it is part of the service he offers as well as the
restaurant.
Chairman Brown asked staff if the applicant would have the
ability to change the existing signs without much difficulty,
or is this going to create additional problems?
Senior Planner Libiez responded that as long as the signs did
not fall into a non-conforming category, in terms of response
to square footage, he has the right to change the face on
signs.
-
Chairman Brown asked for and received consensus from the Com-
mission with regard to applicant using the word "restaurant",
in large letters, the name of the establishment where the
changeable letter examples would be, and also addressing the
issue with cocktails/dining/dancing as long as it meets the
code.
Minutes of Planning Commission
October 4, 1988
Page 3
MONUMENT SIGN = BLACK SEA CAFE (ZIZI CARAS IMU l CONTINUED
-
commissioner Saathoff suggested that verbiage be added to
condition number 2.
Motion by Chairman Brown to approve monument sign for the
Black Sea Cafe subject to the Findings and the 6 Conditions
of Approval listed in the Staff Report with the following
amendment:
Condition No.2:
"Final sign plan submitted for build-
ing permit shall contain the name of
the business establishment, may also
include the words dining/dancing and
cocktails, changeable letters are not
to be permitted; copy placed on sign
faces shall be balanced."
Second by Commissioner Saathoff.
Approved 5-0
3. Landscaping Requirements for Future Mobil Oil site (Com-
mercial Project 87-5) - Brookstone Development Associate
Planner Magee presented a request for an extension of
implementation of condition number 18 for Commercial Project
87-5.
-
Commissioner Brinley asked if Mobil oil was in this past week
and submitted plans.
Associate Planner Magee responded in the negative.
commissioner Brinley stated that she would like to see added
as a condition "this will be the last waiver or extension".
commissioner Kelley stated that he was in favor of staff
recommendation.
commissioner Saathoff stated they have shown that they are
doing everything possible to conform to the earlier request
of October 1st, and I think that it is a very legitimate
request.
Commissioner Wilsey stated that he concurs with Commissioner
Saathoff.
Chairman Brown asked when they received utility release.
Associate Planner Magee asked if Chairman Brown was referring
to Central Plaza.
Chairman Brown responded in the affirmative.
-
Associate Planner Magee responded the second or third week in
July, perhaps Mr. Brown would know the exact date.
Mr. Brown stated that it was August 15th.
Chairman Brown asked if it were true that those items were to
be completed prior to release of utilities.
Associate Planner Magee responded in the affirmative, that is
what brought this matter to the table July 5th.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to approve extension of
implementation of condition number 18 for Commercial Project
87-5, subject to the singular Condition of Approval listed in
the Staff Report, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-1 Chairman Brown opposed
Minutes of Planning Commission
October 4, 1988
Page 4
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Wilsey:
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Saathoff:
-
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Kelley:
Nothing to report
Commissioner Brinlev:
Asked if staff has received an update/status report from Elsinore
Valley Municipal Water District as far as the problem on Chaney
Street.
Senior Planner Libiez responded that we have passed on the
complaint and Engineering is working with them as well.
Chairman Brown:
Big "0" Tires--Iandscaping is all dead, and I believe with the
Conditional Use Permit we did not want to see tires stacked
outside for advertising purposes, they are allover the place. _
Also, there is about a two-foot wide and fifteen-foot long,
nature created, V-ditch in the parking lot. I would appreciate
it if someone would look at those items.
There being no further business, the Lake
mission adjourned at 7:35 p.m. Motion by
second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 5-0
Elsinore Planning Com-
Commissioner Brinley,
APpr~;;;'M~
Jeff d[()
Chairman
Respectfully
~~
Linda Grindstaff
Planning Commission
Secretary
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
18TH
DAY
OF
OCTOBER
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Kelley.
ROLL CALL:
-- PRESENT: Commissioners: Kelley, Wilsey and Brown
ABSENT:
Commissioners: Brinley and Saathoff
Also present were community Development Director Miller, Senior
Planner Libiez, Associate Planners Last and Magee.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to approve minutes of October 4,
1988, as submitted, second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 3-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Brown asked the Secretary if there were any requests to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Brown
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
NONE
BUSINESS ITEMS
-
1. Commercial Project 88-15 - George Tha1as - Associate Planner
Last presented a proposal to construct a two-story 2,500
square foot commercial office structure on .19 acres located
on the northwest corner of Lakeshore Drive and Illinois
Street.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone would like' to speak on Com-
mercial Project 88-15.
Mr. Adrian Cardoza and Mr. George Tha1as spoke in favor of
the project.
commissioner Wilsey asked staff to define p1ant-ons.
-
Associate Planner Last gave a brief definition of p1ant-ons.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he was in complete agreement
with staff; thinks that the west elevation needs quite a bit
of improvement and also landscaping improvements. Believes
that the project will be an asset to this area.
Chairman Brown suggested that the following be added as
condition number 22.j: All landscaping to be bonded 120%,
Faithful Performance Bond, and released at completion of
installation of landscape requirement approval/acceptance,
and bond 100% for material and labor for one year.
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-32 and approval of
Commercial Project 88-15 based on the Findings and subject to
the 53 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report and
the addition of condition number 22.j., which will read as
follows:
Condition No. 22.j: "All landscaping to be bonded 120%,
Faithful Performance Bond, and
Minutes of Planning Commission
October 18, 1988
Page 2
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-15 - GEORGE THALAS CONTINUED
released at completion of
of landscape requirement
ceptance, and bond 100%
and labor for one year.
installation
approval/ac-
for material
Second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 3-0
-
2. Industrial Project 88-3 - Brookstone Development - Associate
Planner Magee presented a proposal to construct a 17,320
square foot industrial building, 1.01, acres located on the
south side of Third Street approximately 350 feet west of
Minthorn Street.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone would like to speak on
Industrial Project 88-3.
Mr. Steve Brown, representing Brookstone Development, stated
that they were in complete agreement with all of the condi-
tions of approval with the exception of condition number 20.
The architect has designed this project to incorporate the
columns, cylinder columns, instead of square as staff would
like to see. We do have the square treatment at the top and
we think the project looks very nice that way. We designed
it that way specifically to get away from the total column
element that we have on the Birch Street Industrial Complex.
We think by adding a variety of types of columns out there
versus just columns or squares that it adds to the overall
area. Therefore, we would request that we maintain this
element of the design. __
Associate Planner Magee, utilizing the rendering posted,
stated that the applicant has created a strong entry
statement with a lot of right angle lines, and bringing those
lines down you come into column rounded treatments that do
not appear anywhere else in the design. Exhibit "0", in-
cluded in your packet, is a flat reduction of an elevation
which seems to indicate to the eye that both the caps and
columns are square at right angles and they appear to
replicate the overall style of the building. Staff's feeling
was in order to keep with the architectural style the
building by it's height and mass project at right angles and
that should be followed up in the columns elements as well.
Commissioner Wilsey stated that he has no problem with the
columns as depicted, and asked about the architecture of
buildings in the surrounding area.
Mr. Steve Brown stated that the project next door, the Birch
Street Industrial Complex, has round columns. The Chaney
Street Project has square columns. The other project that we
have proposed, which the Planning Commission approved, on
Birch Street has square columns.
Commissioner Wilsey suggested that condition number 20 be --
deleted.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he was in complete agreement
with Mr. Brown. Likes the way that would break it up; thinks
that it still conforms with the buildings in the industrial
area.
Chairman Brown stated that he had no problem with the pro-
posal as submitted.
Minutes of Planning Commission
October 18, 1988
Page 3
INDUSTRIAL PROJECT 88-3 = BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
-
Motion by Commissioner Wilsey to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration 88-34 and approval of
Industrial Project 88-3 based on the Findings and subject to
the 31 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report with
the deletion of condition number 20, second by Commissioner
Kelley.
Approved 3-0
3 .
sign Program for Commercial Project 87-13 -
ration - Associate Planner Last presented the
Program for the K Mart shopping center, located
east corner of Mission Trail and Malaga Road.
K Mart Corpo-
Master Sign
at the north-
Chairman Brown asked
the Sign Program.
if anyone would like to speak on
Mr. Leonard O'Byrne, representing K Mart
Camelot Properties, stated that he was in
staff.
Corporation and
agreement with
Commissioner Wilsey commented on the
asked if on previous projects we did
twelve inch high letters.
height of letters and
not address this at
Associate Planner Last responded that this was for lower case
letters. All upper case letters would have been eighteen
inch.
-
commissioner Kelley stated that he was in complete agreement
with staff recommendation, and believes that the monument and
pylon signage for Phase II should be reviewed with the Design
Review proposal for Phase II.
Chairman Brown recommended that the words "transitional land-
scaping" be added to condition number 2.b.
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to approve the Sign
Commercial Project 87-13, subject to the Findings
Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff
amending condition number 2.b., as follows:
Condition No. 2.b.: "Transitional landscaping, shrubs
at the base of the sign"
Program for
and the 4
Report and
Second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 3-0
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
"..-
Community Development Director Miller commented on the opening of
the K Mart shopping center, which we anticipate will be open in
time for Christmas shopping at Thanksgiving.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
commissioner Wilsey:
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Kelley:
Nothing to report.
Minutes of Planning Commission
October 18, 1988
Page 4
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
Chairman Brown:
Asked for an update on the General Plan Circulation Element,
starting with Avenue 6.
-
There being no further business, the
Commission adjourned at 7:26 p.m. Motion
second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 3-0
Lake Elsinore Planning
by Commissioner Wilsey,
Jef
Cha
;c:fU1A:;}d'
Linda Grindstaff
Planning Commission
Secretary
-
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
1ST
DAY
OF
NOVEMBER
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Brinley.
ROLL CALL:
-- PRESENT: Commissioners: Kelley, Brinley, Saathoff, Wilsey
and Brown
ABSENT:
Commissioners: None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller and
Associate Planner Magee.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Wilsey to approve minutes of October 18,
1988, as submitted, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 3-0 Commissioners Brinley and Saathoff abstaining
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Brown asked the Secretary if there were any requests to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Brown
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
IT WAS THE CONSENSUS OF THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER PUBLIC HEARING
1 AND 2 CONCURRENTLY.
-
1. Variance 88-5 Champion Development - Associate Planner
Magee presented a request to vary from a required landscape
setback to allow parking within five-feet of the property
line. 0.70 acres located on the southwest corner of Railroad
Canyon Road and Grape Street.
2. Variance 88-6 Champion Development - Associate Planner
Magee presented a request to vary from a required side yard
setback to allow an office building 5 feet 6 inches from the
property line. 0.70 acres located on the southwest corner of
Railroad Canyon Road and Grape Street.
--
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:05 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Variance 88-5.
Mr. Greg Sponseller, representing Champion Development,
stated that he has gone over the conditions with staff and
agrees to them.
Chairman Brown asked if there was anyone else wishing to
speak in favor of Variance 88-5. Receiving no response,
Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished
to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman
Brown closed the public hearing at 7:07 p.m.
Chairman Brown asked for discussion at the table.
Commissioners Saathoff, Wilsey, and Brinley stated that they
had no problem with the requested variance.
commissioner Kelley stated that with the twenty-foot (20')
Cal Trans easement believes it will be an enhancement and in
complete agreement with it.
Motion by commissioner Wilsey to grant Variances 88-5 and
88-6 subject to the Findings and Conditions of Approval
listed in the Staff Report.
Minutes of Planning Commission
November I, 1988
Page 2
VARIANCE 88-5 AND VARIANCE 88-6- CHAMPION DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
Chairman Brown stated that we would have to have a separate
public hearing on Variance 88-6 and wait until the end of the
pUblic hearing for a motion.
Commissioner Wilsey amended his motion to approve Variance
88-5 only, subject to the Findings and the 4 Conditions of
Approval listed in the Staff Report, second by Commissioner __
Brinley.
Approved 5-0
Chairman Brown opened the pUblic hearing at 7:08 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Variance 88-6.
Mr. Greg Sponseller, representing Champion Development,
stated that he has gone over the conditions with staff and
agrees to them.
Chairman Brown asked if there was anyone else wishing to
speak in favor of Variance 88-6. Receiving no response,
Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished
to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman
Brown closed the public hearing at 7:09 p.m.
Chairman Brown asked for discussion at the table. There being
no discussion at the table, Chairman Brown called for a
motion.
Motion by Commissioner Wilsey to approve Variance 88-6,
subject to the Findings and the 5 Conditions of Approval
listed in the Staff Report, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
....
BUSINESS ITEM
1. Commercial Project 88-13 - Champion Development - Associate
Planner Magee presented a request to construct an 11,973
square foot commercial office building. 0.70 acres located
on the southwest corner of Railroad Canyon Road and Grape
Street.
Associate Planner Magee requested that condition number 14 be
amended to read as follows:
Condition No. 14:
"Brick pavers or textured pavement
treatment shall be laid in bank
design across the driveway
approaches within a ten-foot (10')
area adjacent to the property
line."
Mr. Greg Sponseller, representing Champion Development, com-
mented on condition number 6, pertaining to the landscape
plan, stating that he was aware that there was some
deficiencies in that design, was not happy with it, and it
probably should have not been submitted. I wanted to go with
a stronger Mediterranean Palm Tree type theme and a heavier
use of mounding.
Mr. Sponseller commented on condition number 20, pertaining
to site parking, stating they have discussed different ways
of moving some of the uses around and referred to the exhibit
staff prepared stating that he sees no problem with that. I
can change the site plan to fit that design.
--
Minutes of Planning Commission
November 1, 1988
Page 3
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-13 = CHAMPION DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
~
Mr. Sponseller commented on condition number 21, pertaining
to the building elevations being revised to continue the tile
roof around all four corners of the building and continue the
lateral stucco elements. There are a lot of elements that
accent that Mission theme and I believe the building while it
maintains the integrity of that theme it has a progressive
look to it and I think that is important. I would urge the
Commission to approve this specific design, as submitted.
Chairman Brown asked for discussion at the table.
Commissioner Wilsey requested staff to respond to Mr. Spon-
seller's comment on condition number 21.
~
Associate Planner Magee stated that staff has had a very
positive relationship with Mr. Sponseller. I believe that
this project started back in January, of this year, and has
gone through many changes. Mr. Sponseller adopted the City's
theme for that area, which is Spanish. We came to a point
where we no longer agreed and staff made the recommendation
that you see in front of you. Our main goal was to limit the
vertical elements, and we felt that the decision needed to be
made at the Planning Commission/City Council level.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he was in complete agreement
with staff having the ability/right to make changes in a
proposed design. However, in this case, agrees with Mr.
Sponseller that the glass visually anchors the building into
the landscaping, and thinks it does a good job of visually
distracting from the subterranean parking.
Commissioner Brinley, referring to the rendering, asked if
the glass was going to provide a skylight effect, can you see
through the glass?
Mr. Sponseller responded in the negative, and stated that you
have that reflective bronze look to it, which would be the
same glass as running horizontal through the building units.
Commissioner Brinley asked for the number of parking spaces
that will be provided for the subterranean parking area.
Associate Planner Magee responded that 17 spaces have been
provided.
Commissioner Brinley asked if the subterranean parking area
would have lighting.
Mr. Sponseller responded that it would be well lit and
ventilated.
Commissioner Brinley asked if the building would be secured
~ in the evening.
Mr. Sponseller stated that he has discussed this with staff.
My thought was that the underground parking, at that limited
space, offers a controlled environment for people to park
their vehicles, like the tenants, and patrons would park on
the upper parking lot. This could be closed off with an iron
fence in a way that would be attractive.
Discussion at the table ensued on fencing of the subterranean
parking area and this being left to the discretion of the
applicant.
Minutes of Planning commission
November 1, 1988
Page 4
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-13 = CHAMPION DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
commissioner Saathoff stated that he would like to amend
condition number 6, and have the landscaping plan come back
before the Planning commission.
Commissioner Saathoff stated that he would go along with the
applicant on the architecture of the building, as far as the
rendering and plans are concerned. __
Chairman Brown commented on the mix clay tile roof, referring
to the perspective, and asked Mr. Sponseller if that is going
to be what we have on the color board.
Mr. Sponseller responded that the mix is probably not as
dominant as the rendering shows.
Chairman Brown stated that he would like to see that mix as
opposed to a mono-colored roof.
Chairman Brown commented on the parapet projections, asking
Mr. Sponseller if they were going to be per the perspective
or per the elevations, as we have conflicting drawings.
Mr. Sponseller, referred to the rendering posted, stating
that is a projection behind--it is the only way it will show
on a flat perspective.
Chairman Brown stated that he would like to amend condition
number 6 to include the landscape bondage language.
Chairman Brown commented briefly on the applicant's rendering
and the Commission's request that renderings and drawings __
reflect six month growth or at time of planting.
Mr. Sponseller responded that he plans to bring in some
mature Palm Trees, referring to the Palm Trees shown on the
rendering.
Chairman Brown stated that this is fine, whatever you are
going to bring in at the time of planting or six month
maturity show that on the revised landscape plan.
Commissioner Wilsey suggested that the landscape bondage
language be added as condition number 24.a, and work on this
language so that we can have it as a standard condition.
Discussion at the table ensued on the landscape bondage
language and where it should be added in the Conditions of
Approval, and roofing materials--monotone or mixed colored.
commissioner Saathoff stated that with the the bronze glass
and the architecture that he would prefer to see a roof that
is not a mixed color.
Motion by Chairman Brown to recommend that City Council re-
affirm Negative Declaration 88-26 and approve Commercial
Project 88-13, based on the Findings and the 42 Conditions of --
Approval listed in the Staff Report with the following
amendments:
Condition No.6:
"A revised Landscape Plan shall be
submitted to the Planning Commission.
All renderings shall conform to the
plans reflecting growth at the time of
planting or six month maturity only,
and all landscape improvements to be
Minutes of Planning Commission
November I, 1988
Page 5
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-13 - CHAMPION DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
-
bonded 120%, Faithful Performance
Bond, and released at completion of
installation of landscape requirement
approval/acceptance, and bond 100% for
material and labor for one year."
Condition No. 21:
"Brick pavers or textured pavement
treatment shall be laid in bank design
across the driveway approaches within
a ten-foot (10') area adjacent to the
property line."
"The proposed building elevations
shall be revised to continue the tile
roof around all four corners of the
building and continue lateral stucco
elements, as illustrated in Exhibit
"0". DELETED.
Condition No. 14:
Second by Commissioner Saathoff.
Approved 5-0
At this time, 7:36 p.m., the Planning Commissions recessed.
At this time, 7:42 p.m., the Planning Commission reconvened.
INFORMATIONAL
-
Homestead Land Development Corporation gave a brief presentation
of Tuscany Hills covering design/architectural theme; design
guidelines; landscape concept; recreation center; advertising;
signage, and marketing study.
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Community Development Director Miller stated that Homestead Land
Development Corporation will be making the same presentation to
City Council in the near future.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
commissioner Wilsey:
Asked about the landscaping verbiage which is to be added as a
standard condition.
Community Development Director Miller stated that this will be
added as a standard condition to all future projects.
-
There is a duplex project on Lincoln street near RObin, under
construction earlier this year, did they have anything such as
this bonding mechanism in place?
Community Development Director Miller responded in the negative.
commissioner Saathoff:
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Kelley:
Nothing to report.
Minutes of Planning Commission
November 1, 1988
Page 6
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
Commissioner Brinlev:
Attended the League of California cities Conference, October 15
through October 19, it was a great experience and something that
I would recommend for all of you next year.
Chairman Brown:
-
The project at Dexter and Highway 74 has now become the local
park-and-ride. There is an average of 14 to 20 cars a day on
that dirt parking lot.
There being no further business, the
Commission adjourned at 8:33 p.m. Motion
second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
Lake Elsinore Planning
by Commissioner Wilsey,
Jef
Cha
-
;z:tfUA:itted.
Linda Grindstaff~
Planning Commission
Secretary
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
15TH
DAY
OF
NOVEMBER
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Associate Planner Magee
ROLL CALL:
~ PRESENT: Commissioners: Kelley, Brinley, Saathoff, wilsey
and Brown
ABSENT:
commissioners: None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller and
Associate Planner Magee.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve minutes of November 1,
1988, as submitted, second by Commissioner Kelley
Approved 5-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Brown asked the Secretary if there were any requests to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Brown
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
~
1. Tentative Parcel Map 23910 - Homestead Land Development Corp.
Chairman Brown asked to be excused due to possible conflict of
interest and turned the gavel over to Vice Chairman Saathoff.
Community Development Director Miller presented a proposal to
divide eleven (11) existing lots into fifteen (15) parcels
varying in size from 40 acres to 133 acres. 972.22 acres,
approximately one-half mile north of Railroad Canyon Road and
south of Greenwald Avenue.
Community Development Director Miller requested that condi-
tion number 11 and 12 be added, which will read as follows:
Condition No. 11:
"Development of any parcel of Parcel Map
23910 shall agree to join an assessment
district to improve Railroad Canyon Road
from I-15 to the City Limits or partici-
pate in a pro-rata share for the cost of
the ultimate improvements of the road."
Condition No. 12:
"Developer shall cooperate with the
Riverside County Parks Department to
secure a trails system as outlined by the
Riverside County Parks Department Master
Plan of Trails or a mutually acceptable
alternative."
-
Community Development Director Miller stated that a memorandum
from The Planning Associates (firm assisting the City with
this project) has suggested three conditions of approval in
lieu of the conditions of approval listed in the report.
Vice Chairman Saathoff opened the pUblic hearing at 7:11 p.m.,
asking if anyone wished to speak in favor of Tentative Parcel
Map 23910.
Minutes of Planning Commission
November 15, 1988
Page 2
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23910 - HOMESTEAD LAND DEVELOPMENT CORP.
CONTINUED
Mr. Hardy Strozier, of The Planning Associates, gave clarifi-
cation on the conditions of approval that his firm has
suggested for this project and the conditions of approval as
recommended by staff, referencing Tentative Tract Map 17413
and Tentative Parcel Map 23910.
Mr. Chris Taylor, Homestead Land Development Corp., spoke in
favor of the tentative parcel map and stated that this parcel
map only creates financing parcels and is intended strictly to
assist us in implementing the project.
Vice Chairman Saathoff asked if anyone else wished to speak in
favor of the project or to make a statement. Receiving no
response, Vice Chairman Saathoff asked if anyone wished to
speak in opposition or to make a statement.
--
Ms. Lynn Vollmer, 23914 Outriver Drive, Canyon Lake, commented
on the multi purpose trail system, and stated she was not in
favor nor opposed to the project.
Vice Chairman Saathoff asked if anyone else wished to speak on
the matter. Receiving no response, Vice Chairman Saathoff
closed the public hearing at 7:29 p.m.
Commissioner Kelley commented on the letter from Hunsaker and
Associates and the conditions of approval for the project;
asked if we have been working with the County in reference to
Fish and wildlife service, and suggested that the proposal be
continued and have staff work with the applicant to resolve
the issues of concerns. __
Commissioner Brinley stated that her concern would be with the
Stephens' kangaroo rat, and whether this would be incorporated
into the revised conditions; whether or not the multi purpose
trail system should be incorporated at this time, or is it
already on the tentative tract map, and continuing the
proposal and have staff work with the applicant to resolve the
issues of concern.
Commissioner Wilsey gave a
purpose trail system and
condition number 12, came
work with the County in
systems.
brief explanation on the multi
how this requested condition,
about. Recommended that the City
developing multi purpose trail
Vice Chairman Saathoff commented on the conditions for this
map already being conditions on Tentative Tract Map 17413, and
if we could then indicate that these conditions would relate
to a tentative map for the northern portion of the parcel.
Discussion ensued at the table on whether or not there was an
assessment district for improvements on Railroad Canyon Road
under Tentative Tract Map 17413; amending condition number 12
by adding the word "multi", and timeframe for proposal if
continued.
-
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to continue Tentative Parcel
Map 23910 to December 6, 1988, second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 4-0 (Commissioner Brown abstaining)
AT THIS TIME, VICE CHAIRMAN SAATHOFF TURNED THE GAVEL OVER TO
CHAIRMAN BROWN.
AT THIS TIME, 7:55 P.M. THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECESSED.
AT THIS TIME, 8:04 P.M. THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECONVENED.
Minutes of Planning Commission
November 15, 1988
Page 3
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. commercial Project 88-16 Milton Polsky and M & S General
Contractors - Associate Planner Magee presented a proposal to
construct an 11,010 square foot commercial project consisting
-- of two (2) buildings and a 55 unit two-story motel. 2.13
acres on the east side of Casino Drive approximately 400 feet
north of Ma1aga Road.
Chairman Brown asked if the applicant was present and if he
would like to comment.
Mr. Milton Polsky stated that basically they were in agreement
with all of the conditions, except for condition number 23,
pertaining to a minimum of fifty percent (50%) of all trees
shall be twenty-four inch box, and requested that this be
reduced to twenty percent (20%).
Mr. Steve Faulk, architect for the project, commented
condition number 23, and stated that he concurs with
Polsky that twenty percent (20%) would be more in keeping
the project at the other end of the shopping center.
on
Mr.
with
--
Discussion ensued at the table on condition number 23, per-
taining to the number of trees and the project at the end of
the shopping center and the number of trees they planted.
Commissioner Saathoff asked about the retaining wall height.
Associate Planner Magee stated that the retaining wall varies
in height from 5-1/2 feet to 7 feet.
Commissioner Saathoff commented on condition number 33, asking
if this condition was not covered in the last sentence of
condition number 23.
Associate Planner Magee responded in the affirmative.
Commissioner Saathoff asked if the landscaping plan would be
coming back only because of the change in the trees.
Associate Planner Magee responded that
would come back for administrative review
Planning Commission unless so conditioned.
Chairman Brown commented on condition number 27, and asked Mr.
Polsky if this would be phasing construction or if he intended
to build everything out immediately.
the landscape
only, not to
plan
the
--
Mr. Polsky responded that he intended to build everything
immediately.
Chairman Brown stated that if something happens and the
project were to be ~uilt in phases he would like to add
verbiage to condi~ion number 27, if building permits are not
pulled for the enti~e project within 30 days after commence-
. -. '!j .
ment of grad1ng, graded pads w111 be landscaped or all water
run-off will be maintained on site.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negatiye Declaration No. 88-36 and approval of
commerical Project 88-16 based on the Findings and subject to
the 47 conditionsr;f Approval listed in the Staff Report with
the following amendments:
Condition No. 23:
"Applicant
Landscape
providing
shall
and
100%
submit a Final
Irrigation Plan
watering coverage
Minutes of Planning Commission
November 15, 1988
Page 4
COMMERCIAL PROJECT 88-16
CONTRACTORS CONTINUED
MILTON POLSKY AND M k ~ GENERAL
which includes plants with seasonal
color, as illustrated in rendering.
A minimum of twenty percent (20%) of
all trees shall be twenty-four-inch
(24") box and eighty percent (80%)
shall be fifteen gallon, and the two __
compact spaces at the south of the
project shall be deleted and
landscaped, as illustrated in
Exhibit "C"
Condition No. 27:
"At the time of grading operations,
the construction and landscape
superintendent(s) shall meet with
City staff to review conditions and
discuss inspection and final
building release procedures. If
building permits are not pulled for
the entire project within 30 days
after commencement of grading,
graded pads will be landscaped or
all water run-off will be maintained
on site.
Condition No. 33:
"The two
south end
deleted
illustrated
(2) compact spaces at the
of the project shall be
and landscaped, as
in Exhibit "C". DELETE
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
-
INFORMATIONAL
A presentation on appearance and design of small lot development
was made by Pardee Construction Company.
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Community Development Director Miller informed the Commission that
at the November 22, 1988 City Council Meeting it will be announced
that Planning Commission and City Council meetings will be held at
the Elementary School District Board Room at 545 Chaney Street,
this will become effective the first meeting in December.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Kellev:
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Brinley:
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Saathoff:
-
Suggested that any comments the Commissioners wish to make be made
through the chair.
Asked for the status of the General Plan.
.~
Community Development Director Miller stated that we have entered
into a contract with Phillips Brandt Reddick, a major planning
Minutes of Planning Commission
November 15, 1988
Page 5
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
consulting firm, and they are in their data acquisition stage of
putting things together in order to develop the analysis and
recommendation. We anticipate that we will have information to
-- present to an advisory committee shortly after the first of the
year, after going through the advisory committee and public work
shops, and bring it to public hearing next summer.
I am not clear why it is necessary or what the philosophy is in
putting conditions on a parcel map.
community Development Director Miller stated that there are a
number of reasons you would put conditions on a parcel map, mainly
conditions relating to infrastructure improvements.
commissioner Wilsey:
Commented on the unsafe condition of Lake Street, stating that
Lake Street was to be opened again today. I believe that they are
now working within the City Limits and asked for the status.
Community Development Director Miller responded that this is a
County project, but we will work with the Engineering Department
to follow up on this with the County and see if we can get an
answer.
Chairman Brown
--
Nothing to report.
There being no further business, the Lake
Commission adjourned at 9:04 p.m. Motion
Saathoff, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
Elsinore Planning
by Commissioner
Jeff
Chai
Resp~ctfu~mitted'
~~rindstaff~
Planning Commission
Secretary
--
-
....
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
6TH
DAY
OF
DECEMBER
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:02 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Associate Planner Last
ROLL CALL:
__ PRESENT: Commissioners: Kelley, Brinley, Saathoff, Wilsey
and Brown
ABSENT:
commissioners: None
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, City
Planner Thornhill and Associate Planners Last and Magee.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve minutes of November 15,
1988, as submitted, second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Brown asked the Secretary if there were any requests to
address the Commission. The Secretary answered in the negative.
There being no requests to address the Commission, Chairman Brown
closed the PUBLIC COMMENTS section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Chairman Brown asked for and received the consensus of the table
to combine PUBLIC HEARING #3 and #6 moving said items to the end
of the PUBLIC HEARINGS, and considering BUSINESS ITEM #1 con-
currently since they are all related projects.
-
1. Tentative Parcel Map 23910 - Homestead Land Development Corp.
(Continued from November 15, 1988) Community Development
Director Miller presented a proposal to divide eleven (11)
existing lots into fifteen (15) parcels varying in size from
40 acres to 133 acres. 972.22 acres, approximately one-half
mile north of Railroad Canyon Road and south of Greenwald
Avenue.
Community Development Director Miller requested that condition
number 6 be revised as follows:
Condition No.6: "An easement for a connecting road to the
south boundary of the Parcel Map 23910
through to the northern boundary off-site
to Greenwald shall be reserved prior to
or concurrent with the recordation of the
Parcel Map."
-
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:07 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Tentative Parcel Map
23910.
Mr. Chris Taylor, Homestead Land Development, spoke in favor
of Tentative Parcel Map 23910, and stated that he would answer
any questions.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor.
Mr. Gene Nazarek, Acting as Special Counselor for the City of
Lake Elsinore, stated that they support the recommendation of
staff, and will answer any questions.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor.
Minutes of Planning Commission
December 6, 1988
Page 2
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23910 = HOMESTEAD LAND DEVELOPMENT CORP. CONTINUED
Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished
to speak in opposition.
Ms. Lynn Vollmer, 23914 Outriver Drive, Canyon Lake, stated
that she was not opposed nor in favor of the development and
then commented on the multi purpose trail system.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in oppo-
sition or on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman
Brown closed the public hearing at 7:15 p.m.
...-
Commissioner Kelley stated that he would like to see the trail
system linked up with the County. As far as a solution to the
trail system, I do not see where we can go back and condition
this particular development.
Commissioner Wilsey stated that he agrees with Commissioner
Kelley with regard to the trail system. It is something that
we have do and we have to focus on to protect this type of
viability for our future constituents, however, it is not
appropriate on this, but I would urge staff to continue
working diligently on this and hopefully will come up with a
solution.
Commissioner Brinley commented on the maintenance and upkeep
of the trail systems and stated the cost factor should not be
totally the burden of the City, if it is going to be a joint
effort between the County and City.
Commissioner Brinley commented on the Stephens' kangaroo rat
issue.
....
Community Development Director Miller responded that any
development where there are Stephens' kangaroo rat requires
clearance from the u.S. Fish & wildlife Service. Staff has
been attending technical advisory committee meetings for the
past six months, and we have had discussions with developers
about ways that those problems can be mitigated.
Commissioner Saathoff commented on Ms. Vollmer's concerns on
trails, stating that at such time a parcel map is divided up
into small lots it then becomes a tentative tract map.
Generally, that is the time that the City would ask the
developer to dedicate some land to an all purpose trail. Once
the land is dedicated the City and County would come up with a
specific plan. There will have to be standards for separating
this area by some sort of fencing or something. There will
have to be insurance and all types of mitigation measures
before that multi purpose trail is ready to be used.
Chairman Brown commented on the County's ordinance on the
Stephens' kangaroo rat and stated that this should not be used
as a guideline.
Chairman Brown commented on
sees it more appropriate
regional park.
the trail system stating that he
for multi purpose trails in a
...
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to City Council
that the Environmental Impact Report and Addendums previously
certified for Canyon Lake Hills and Tentative Tract Map 17413
Revision #4 be reaffirmed and approval of Tentative Parcel Map
23910 based on the Findings and subject to the 7 Conditions of
Approval listed in the Staff Report with the following
amendment:
Minutes of Planning Commission
December 6, 1988
Page 3
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 23910 = HOMESTEAD LAND DEVELOPMENT CORP. CONTINUED
--
Condition No.6: "An easement for a connecting road to the
south boundary of the Parcel Map 23910
through to the northern boundary off-site
to Greenwald shall be reserved prior to
or concurrent with the recordation of the
Parcel Map."
Second by commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
2. General Plan Amendment 88-5 and Zone Change 88-9 - MBC
Constructors. Ltd. - Community Development Director Miller
stated that the applicant has withdrawn these applications.
Motion by Commissioner
Plan Amendment 88-5
Commissioner wilsey.
Approved 5-0
Brinley to accept withdrawal of General
and Zone Change 88-9, second by
3. General Plan Amendment 88-6 and Zone Change 88-10 - MOVED TO
END OF PUBLIC HEARINGS.
4. General Plan Amendment 88-9 and Zone Change 88-13 - Dura
Construction - Associate Planner Last presented a proposal to
amend the General Plan Land Use designation of Limited
-- Industrial and Floodway to Limited Industrial and Commercial
Manufacturing and change the zoning from Limited Manufacturing
(M-1) to Commercial Manufacturing (C-M). A ten acre site
located south of Collier Avenue between Third and Crane
Streets.
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:25 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of General Plan Amendment
88-9 and Zone Change 88-13.
Mr. Dennis Sparr, President of Dura Construction, stated that
he would answer any questions.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of General Plan Amendment 88-9 and Zone Change 88-13. Receiv-
ing no response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to
speak in opposition. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown
asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter. Receiving no
response, Chairman Brown closed the public hearing at 7:27
p.m.
There being no discussion at the table, Chairman Brown called
for a motion.
-
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-40 and approval of
General Plan Amendment 88-9 based on the Findings listed in
the Staff Report, and adoption of Resolution No. 88-8,
entitled as follows:
RESOLUTION NO. 88-8
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY
OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA, RECOMMENDING ADOPTION
OF GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 88-9 TO THE LAND USE
ELEMENT OF THE 1982 GENERAL PLAN CHANGING THE
DESIGNATION OF 10 ACRES FROM LIMITED INDUSTRIAL AND
FLOODWAY TO LIMITED INDUSTRIAL AND COMMERCIAL MANU-
FACTURING
Minutes of Planning Commission
December 6, 1988
Page 4
GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 88-9 AND ZONE CHANGE 88-13 - DURA CONSTRUCTION
CONTINUED
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to recommend to City Council
approval of Zone Change 88-13, based on the Findings listed in
the Staff Report, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
...
5. General Plan Amendment 88-10 and Zone Change 88-14 - A & A
Investments - Associate Planner Magee presented a proposal to
amend the General Plan from Low Density Residential to High
Density Residential and to rezone the property from R-2
(Medium Density Residential) to R-3 (High Density Resi-
dential). 0.19 acres on the northwest corner of Sumner Avenue
and Langstaff Street.
Chairman Brown opened the pUblic hearing at 7:29 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of General Plan Amendment
88-10 and Zone Change 88-14.
Mr. Alan Manee, representing A & A Investments, spoke in favor
of the proposal and gave a brief description of the
surrounding area.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of General Plan Amendment 88-10 and Zone Change 88-14. Receiv-
ing no response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to
speak in opposition. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown
asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter. Receiving no __
response, Chairman Brown closed the public hearing at 7:30
p.m.
There being no discussion at the table, Chairman Brown called
for a motion.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-42 and approval of
General Plan Amendment 88-10 based on the Findings listed in
the Staff Report, and adoption of Resolution No. 88-9,
entitled as follows:
RESOLUTION NO. 88-9
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY
OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA, RECOMMENDING ADOPTION
OF GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 88-10 TO THE LAND USE
ELEMENT OF THE 1982 GENERAL PLAN CHANGING THE
DESIGNATION OF A 0.19 ACRE PARCEL FROM LOW DENSITY
RESIDENTIAL TO HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL
Second by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 5-0
....
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to City Council
approval of Zone Change 88-14, based on the Findings listed in
the Staff Report, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
AT THIS TIME, 7:33 P.M., THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECESSED.
AT THIS TIME, 7:45 P.M., THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECONVENED
Minutes of Planning Commission
December 6, 1988
Page 5
3. General Plan Amendment 88-6 and Zone Change 88-10 - Pacific
Scene - Associate Planner Last presented a proposal to amend
the General Plan designation of Very Low Density Residential
and Floodplain to Low Density Residential and a rezone of said
property from County R-R to city R-1 (Single-Family Resi-
__ dential). 44.34 acres located approximately 2,550 feet west
of Robb Road between Mountain and Running Deer Road.
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:48 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of General Plan Amendment
88-6 and Zone Change 88-10.
Mr. Jay Summers, representing Pacific Scene, spoke in favor of
the proposal, and gave a brief background report on the
proposals.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of General Plan Amendment 88-6 and Zone Change 88-10. Receiv-
ing no response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to
speak in opposition. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown
asked if anyone wished to speak on the matter. Receiving no
response, Chairman Brown closed the public hearing at 7:50
p.m.
There being no discussion at the table, Chairman Brown called
for a motion.
~
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration No. 88-37 and approval of
General Plan Amendment 88-6 based on the Findings listed in
the Staff Report, and adoption of Resolution No. 88-7,
entitled as follows:
RESOLUTION NO. 88-7
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY
OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA, RECOMMENDING ADOPTION
OF GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 88-6 TO THE LAND USE
ELEMENT OF THE 1982 GENERAL PLAN CHANGING THE
DESIGNATION OF 35.74 ACRES FROM VERY LOW DENSITY
RESIDENTIAL AND FLOODPLAIN TO LOW DENSITY RESI-
DENTIAL AND DESIGNATING ADDITIONAL FLOODPLAIN AREA
ON A PORTION OF THE REMAINING 8.6 ACRES
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to City Council
adoption of Zone Change 88-10 based on the Findings listed in
the Staff Report, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
.---.
6. Vesting Tentative Tract Map 24010 - Pacific Scene - Associate
Planner Last presented a proposal to subdivide two (2) parcels
into 117 lots (lIS residential lots). 44.34 acres located
approximately 2,500 feet west of Robb Road between Mountain
Street and Running Deer Road.
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:53 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Vesting Tentative Tract
Map 24010.
Mr. Jay Summers, representing Pacific Scene, commented on the
site plan, referring to the colored site plan posted, high-
lighting topography; streetscape; existing haul road and the
Rice Canyon flood channel; letter to the Commission from the
property owner adjacent to the west, which would be at the top
Minutes of Planning Commission
December 6, 1988
Page 6
VESTING TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 24010 - PACIFIC SCENE CONTINUED
of the plain, expressing concerns on future access and
development.
Mr. Summers stated that they are in concurrence with all of
the conditions except for a couple which he would like to make
possible modification or clarification.
Chairman Brown informed Mr. Summers that he would be brought
back to the podium at the end of the public hearing to address
the conditions in question.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of Vesting Tentative Tract Map 24010.
Mr. Jack Dilemme, Parkwest Companies, agent for Mr. Bill
Bishop owner of property directly west of proposed Tentative
Tract Map 24010, stated that they were in favor of the
proposed development, however, the only problem is with the
access that we are being given. Mr. Bishop is considering
future development of his property and we feel this severely
limits his access. We would like to see a secondary access
somewhere.
Mr. Bishop, owner of the property to the west, commented on
the existing access to his property and the continuation of
Mountain Street as a secondary access.
Discussion ensued on access point locations to Mr. Bishop's
property; if there was a dedicated recorded easement given for
access; purchase of easement for access.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor
of Vesting Tentative Tract Map 24010. Receiving no response,
Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition.
Receiving no response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished
to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown
closed the public hearing at 8:17 p.m.
Commissioner Kelley yielded the floor to Mr. Summers.
Mr. Summers commented on the access issue and stated that
there are no habitable residences on Mr. Bishop's property.
Mr. Bishop's property has frontage along our entire west
boundary, including the 40 feet proposed for paved access.
Discussion ensued on the access issue, the amount of frontage
along the west boundary for access to Mr. Bishop's property;
having an easement that would sunset at a specific date.
Mr. Summers stated that the current offer is that access to
Mr. Bishop's property would be provided both for present and
future development through the GO-foot easement for Mountain
street and the two (2) lanes of paved access to the northwest
corner of our property, which is also the northeast boundary
of his property where he has a 40-foot connection point.
Recognizing that his present use and access would be
restricted by that we have agreed to give him permission to
cross our property on the existing dirt road and tie in with
this paved road until such time that City Council approved
further development of this property.
Mr. Summers commented on condition 9, pertaining to front yard
setbacks. We are aware that the City may be considering a
change in the setback requirements for the R-l standards. We
would like to, if possible, add wording to this condition that
if the City adopts reduced setback standards for front yards
-
-
-
Minutes of Planning Commission
December 6, 1988
Page 7
VESTING TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 24010 = PACIFIC SCENE CONTINUED
we would like the ability to utilize those new standards in
order to create a more usable rear yard.
~
Mr. Summers commented on condition number 17, relating to
fencing, stating that his personal preference is for 5-foot
fencing in private yards rather than 6-foot. But if 6-foot is
the city-wide existing condition then we are certainly willing
to comply with that; maybe we could build in some flexibility
for staff review. Additionally, we would like to use wrought
iron fencing where appropriate on view lots, again subject to
staff's review and discretion.
commissioner Kelley asked Mr. Summers if he likes the 5-foot
fencing in general or in all instances.
Mr. Summers stated that certainly on this tract we have a
special condition of the masonry sound wall, which does need
to be 6-foot on top of a 2-foot berm. Normally, in our
developments we provide a very attractive 5-foot cedar fencing
that has a trim board at the top and bottom. Basically, it is
just my personal preference, the 5-foot seems to not create as
much of a wall impression.
~
commissioner Kelley stated that he was pleased that we were
finally getting under way with the West End Fire Assessment
District. Also, pleased with the fact that you are going to
have Xeriscape on one of the models. At the time that this is
completed, I would urge the City to have residents have a look
at that, because water conservation is going to be critical in
the future.
commissioner Kelley stated that he would like to see the Robb
Road and Mountain Street improvements, and something done with
the entrance to the Premier Homes. I know that this does not
pertain to this development, but in the future, if it is
possible, somehow have a special lane so that the cars can
slow down to get in there.
Community Development Director Miller responded that
Premier development was conditioned to fully improve Robb
between Mountain and the Junior High School District.
reason that has not been done is that we are still trying
obtain an easement, or right-of-way, so that a storm drain
be installed south of Lakeshore Drive.
the
Road
The
to
can
commissioner Kelley commented on the concern on the library
services, believes it was in the Environmental Impact Report.
The County made special note of the impact to the library
system. I would appreciate staff looking into some type of
library mitigation fee.
~
commissioner Wilsey asked for clarification
number 9, pertaining to Mr. Summers' request,
residential development standards.
on condition
amending the
community Development Director Miller responded that the de-
velopment community has gotten legislation through the State
Legislature that provides for vesting tentative maps that
allows them to lock in the development standards at the point
of approval. We have been in discussions about changing our
development standards, so it is interesting to note that the
developer wants the benefit of those changes that would be in
his favor. However, given that aside, I would say that we are
looking at changes in the development standards that would
suggest a reduction in the front yard setback for garages that
Minutes of Planning Commission
December 6, 1988
Page 8
VESTING TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 24010 - PACIFIC SCENE CONTINUED
enter directly from the street and allowing wrought iron
fences or providing additional alternatives for development,
particularly in hillside areas. I think that the wording of
those conditions would allow such if this were not a vesting
map.
Commissioner Wilsey commented on condition number 17, per-
taining to Mr. Summers' request on fencing, stating that his
preference is masonry, but agrees with the wrought iron
concept on view lots.
-
Commissioner Brinley commented on condition number 47, per-
taining to drainage, asking where the detention basins are to
be located.
Community Development Director Miller stated that the Engi-
neering Department had expressed concern about the drainage if
it were directed along Running Deer Road, and we do not yet
have the advantage of reviewing working drawings. I believe
the applicant had intended to direct drainage along Wheatstone
Drive.
Commissioner Brinley commented on the fencing, personal
opinion is ma~onry, but on view lots wrought iron, 3 and 3
combination 1S fine (3 block and 3 iron). Glad to see the
West End Fire Assessment District coming in.
Commissioner Saathoff commented on condition number 13, per-
taining to the CC & R's, asking if there is going to be any
type of Owners Association involved, or who is going to
monitor the CC & R's?
--
Mr. Summers responded that there would be a committee in place
for architectural control, and as the members move out of the
area they would designate a replacement.
Chairman Brown stated that the would like to add condition
number 12.f., which would read:
Condition 12.f.: "All landscape improvements to be bonded
120%, Faithful Performance Bond, and
released at completion of installation of
landscape requirement approval/ac-
ceptance, and bond 100% for material and
labor for one year."
Chairman Brown commented on condition number 28, pertaining to
traffic sight easement and traffic control, what has
Engineering proposed for this intersection?
Community Development Director Miller responded
tract has proposed to dedicate Mountain Street as
street.
that this
a public
Chairman Brown responded that the haul road is not, what
protection for the cross traffic will be provided? __
Community Development Director Miller stated that this is one
of the items of concern and was discussed at considerable
length with the developer. The development of those lots on
the other side of Rice Canyon, that is one of the reasons
along with the sewage disposal and some other issues that lead
to the deletion of those lots. They will be providing a sight
distance at that intersection and they have had some
discussions with ERM indicating that they would agree to
traffic control at that intersection. However, staff would
Minutes of Planning Commission
December 6, 1988
Page 9
VESTING TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 24010 - PACIFIC SCENE CONTINUED
share some of the same concerns that you have, and feels that
the responsibility of getting across that intersection will
rest mainly with the people crossing on Mountain Street.
-
Chairman Brown
number 28 come
Council with
certificate of
stated that he
back before the
resolution of
Occupancy.
would like to see condition
Planning Commission and City
both bodies before the first
Chairman Brown asked for clarification on condition number 16
and 17, stating it is the most complicated fencing description
that he has ever seen. In the past, we have tried to deal
with a real simple concept--any lot that is on a corner which
has public street frontage would have masonry walls. Lot to
lot side yards could be wood or rear lot line lot to lot could
be wood. Perimeter walls would be block.
Associate Planner Last commented on condition number 16,
stating we do have a requirement in the Zoning Code that no
solid fence may be higher than three-feet (3') within the
front yard setback of twenty-feet (20').
Chairman Brown referred to the words "exterior side yards" in
condition number 16.
-
Associate Planner Last stated that the condition should have
stated front yard setback according to the code.
Chairman Brown stated that this would clarify it, but we do
want to see masonry walls.
Community Development Director Miller stated
be an addition, all walls along streets i.e.,
on corner lots shall be masonry.
that this should
side yard walls
Chairman Brown stated that where you can see the fencing from
the street, the rear property lines lot to lot, the side yard
lines lot to lot can be wood, and returns can be wood. If we
can have that language included in condition number 16, to
delineate only the front yard setback as being the three-foot
wall and the side yard is the normal height.
Chairman Brown commented on condition number 17, pertaining to
fencing or masonry walls, asking if the code states that
wrought iron can be five-feet in height and block six-feet.
Community
reference
specifies
the front
Development Director Miller stated that the
there is to the front yard setback and the code
that a five-foot wrought iron fence may be used in
yard setback.
-
Chairman Brown asked if we were going to add the new language
in condition number 17, to delineate that this is absolutely
for the front yard and separates the side yard from the
setback.
Community Development Director Miller asked if Chairman Brown
wished to amend condition number 17, to allow a combination of
wrought iron and masonry walls on view lots.
Chairman Brown stated that he wants to say block walls on side
yards viewable to the street, wood fences on lot to lot on
rear and side yards, 3 and 3 combination (3 foot wrought iron
and 3 foot masonry) anywhere on view lots.
Minutes of Planning Commission
December 6, 1988
Page 10
VESTING TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 24010 ~ PACIFIC SCENE CONTINUED
Commissioner Saathoff suggested either a combination or all
wrought iron.
Community Development Director Miller stated that there is a
substantial difference whether you would allow wrought iron or
whether you wanted knee wall, you should be clear about this.
Commissioner Saathoff suggested the addition of a specifi-
cation that on view lots the applicant could put in wrought
iron or a combination of masonry and wrought iron.
Discussion at the table ensued on fencing for view lots.
-
Commissioner Saathoff stated that he would like to address the
issue of the request from Mr. Bishop. I personally feel that
the applicant has mitigated any problems about landlocking any
property that happens to be behind him, and feels that what he
has offered as a solution to the property owners behind him is
adequate. I just want to go on record as saying that.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration 88-37 and approval of Vesting
Tentative Tract Map 24010 based on the Findings and subject to
the 50 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report with
the following amendments:
Condition 12.f.: "All landscape improvements to be bonded
120%, Faithful Performance Bond, and
released at completion of installation of
landscape requirement approval/ac-
ceptance, and bond 100% for material and __
labor for one year."
Condition 16:
Condition 17:
Condition 28:
"Fences located in any front yard shall
not exceed three-feet (3') in height, in
the required setback area as required by
current Zoning Code with the exception of
wrought iron fences which may be five
feet (5') in height. Chain link fences
shall be prohibited."
"Decorative block walls shall be required
for side yards which have street
frontage. A six-foot (6') high solid
wood fence or masonry wall shall be
constructed along the side and rear
property lines. Applicant shall submit a
typical fencing plan, showing the height
and material, and the fence locations
indicated on a grading plan and be
approved by the Community Development
Director prior to the release of the
first certificate of Occupancy."
"A traffic sight easement shall be pro-
vided across lots 24, 25, and 26 and
proper safety signage at the Mountain
Street and haul road intersection shall
be approved by the City Engineer prior to
recordation of the final map, and shall
be brought back before the Planning Com-
mission and City Council with resolution
of both bodies before the first Certifi-
cate of Occupancy."
-
Minutes of Planning commission
December 6, 1988
Page 11
VESTING TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 24010 = PACIFIC SCENE CONTINUED
Second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 5-0
~
BUSINESS ITEM
1. Annexation No. 45 - Pacific Scene - Associate Planner Last
presented a request to annex County unincorporated land into
the City of Lake Elsinore for future residential develop-
ment. 44.34 acres located approximately 2,500 feet west of
Robb Road between Mountain Street and Running Deer Road.
There being no discussion at the table, Chairman Brown called
for a motion.
Motion by Commissioner Saathoff to recommend to City Council
approval of Annexation No. 45 based on the Findings listed in
the Staff Report, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Community Development Director Miller introduced Gary Thornhill as
the City's new City Planner.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
~
commissioner Saathoff:
Will not be present at the meeting on December 20, 1988.
commissioner Wilsey:
We have had a lot of comments lately coming before us with regards
to the small lots, and I am going to recommend to staff that we
get together a list of some of these projects where we could go
out, as a group or individually, and check these projects out and
get a little better knowledge of these small lot programs.
Chairman Brown stated that this was an excellent idea and maybe we
could do a Saturday tour, an adjourned study session.
Community Development Director Miller stated that he believes this
would be very beneficial for Planning commission to look not only
at small lot sizes, but also we have been talking about looking at
some of the commercial developments, and suggested a Saturday in
January.
.....
commissioner Brinlev:
Nothing to report.
commissioner Kellev:
Nothing to report.
Chairman Brown:
Thanked the Lake Elsinore School District for the use of their
facility.
Minutes of Planning Commission
December 6, 1988
Page 12
There being no further business, the Lake
Commission adjourned at 8:55 p.m. Motion
Saathoff, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5-0
Approved,
Elsinore Planning
by Commissioner
Jeff Brow~! "
ChairmaP"
~tf~mitted'
Linda Grindstaf~
Planning Commission
Secretary
--
-
-
MINUTES
OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE
20TH
DAY
OF
DECEMBER
1988
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:05 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Associate Planner Last
ROLL CALL:
-
PRESENT: commissioners: Kelley, Brinley, Wilsey and Brown
ABSENT:
commissioners: Saathoff
Also present were Community Development Director Miller, City
Planner Thornhill and Associate Planners Last and Magee.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve minutes of December 6,
1988, as submitted, second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 4-0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Mr. Bill Gray, 1115 17th Street, Hermosa Beach, California,
requested to speak on the approximate implementation date for
changes to Title 17 which effect hillside development.
Chairman Brown asked Mr. Gray if he would like to speak on the
item when it comes up for public hearing.
-
Mr. Gray answered in the affirmative.
Mr. Kevin Jeffries, 17666 Grand Avenue, Lake Elsinore, California,
commented on the new Minor Design Review procedures pertaining to
single-family submittal requirements and the hardship this is
creating: increased time delays, from 3 weeks to 4 to 6 weeks;
increase in fees, from $75.00 to $130.00; increase in number of
plans to be submitted, and the requirement of a materials board.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Chairman Brown asked for and received the consensus of the table to
move PUBLIC HEARING #2 to the end of the PUBLIC HEARINGS.
1. Zone Code Amendment 88-9 - Brookstone Development - Associate
Planner Magee presented a request to amend Section 17.54.020 of
the Lake Elsinore Municipal Code pertaining to permitted uses
in the Commercial-Manufacturing Zoning District to allow office
uses within that district, which would apply city-wide.
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:16 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone Code Amendment 88-9.
-
Mr. Steve Brown, representing Brookstone Development, stated
that he would like to point out that it was not their intent to
request carte blanche all office for dental, attorneys,
accounts, as well as engineers specifically which is what we
came to you for to be allowed in the Commercial Manufacturing
Zone, I do not think that it is appropriate. We are request-
ing engineering firms and similar types of businesses, I
distinguish between that and all offices. We strongly believe
that engineering type of firms, soils engineering firms,
blueprint planning companies, architects--peop1e that work in
the building trade do belong in light industrial parks.
Mr. Brown gave a list of businesses that rent space in the
Chaney Street Center, and stated that in his opinion these are
uses that would be compatible with an engineering firm.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 20, 1988
Page 2
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-9 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
Mr. Brown stated that they cannot see coming before the
Planning Commission for a Conditional Use Permit every time
they have a civil engineer or someone that would like to
located there and that is why we did not request that this be
tied to a Conditional Use Permit.
Mr. Brown stated that he
analysis submitted to staff
parking requirements.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone
Code Amendment 88-9.
stands corrected on the parking
and that they would meet the
...,
Mr. Bob Lindar, representing the Keith Companies of which
Butterfield Engineering & Survey is a division, stated that he
has experienced a tremendous problem in finding enough space;
we require around 5,000 square feet for our staff right now.
There is no existing offices in the city that can accommodate
us with the parking requirements other than retail centers
which we really do not want to be a part of. We came across
Brookstone's Chaney Street Center which can be adapted readily
to our use, and we feel that it is a prime location.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak in favor of Zone
Code Amendment 88-9.
Mr. Fred Crowe, Butterfield Engineering & Surveys, commented on
the ordinance and allowable uses that are similar to their use.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor of
Zone Code Amendment 88-9. Receiving no response, Chairman
Brown asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiv-
ing no response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak
on the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown closed
the pUblic hearing at 7:26 p.m.
...,
Commissioner Kelley asked staff to address concerns of the
applicant.
Associate Planner Magee stated that if Bob's Lunch Box is
indeed closed that it should have been deleted from the parking
study submitted.
Associate Planner Magee stated that as far as Mr. Crowe's
comments on uses within the C-M, we have an exhibit, included
in your packets, for uses within the MS-C Zone for the County
and the C-M Zone in the City. The letter from Mr. Brown
indicates that they should be the same. Staff's feeling is
that they clearly are not, and that the zoning in the County
clearly allows for a broader range and does not meet the intent
of the City's C-M Zoning.
Commissioner Kelley asked how staff would address the fact that
we allow soils engineering firms in the C-M Zone.
Community Development Director Miller stated that typically __
soils engineering firms have the same licensing as civil
engineering firms, however, soils engineering firms typically
involve testing on site. A lot of times soils engineering
firms have a laboratory as part of their operation, in which
they do analysis, and that was the reason that soils engineer-
ing firms were included in that zone.
Community Development Director Miller stated that there are
some things that are similar, however, when you are going to
Planning Commission Minutes
December 20, 1988
Page 3
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-9 = BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
...--
an engineering office or architect's office you are dealing
with a pure office use.
Community Development Director Miller stated that we have a
limited amount of industrial land which has not developed
largely because of physical constraints. However, we do have a
large amount of commercial land, and while it is correct that
we do not have any office space currently for lease that would
satisfy their needs we do have a lot of areas that could
potentially be built.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he was in agreement with staff
recommendation. Believes that our inventory of commercial-
manufacturing is limited and feels that we have to preserve it.
commissioner Wilsey stated that he does not agree with changing
the Commercial-Manufacturing Code, however, we have a well
established and respected firm that is experiencing growth in
our community, as well as the community itself, and we are not
able to provide them with the type of facilities to expand, so
what do they do? Do we afford them the opportunity to stay a
part of our community and work with them? I am in favor of
working with the applicant and determining a way to meet their
requirements and also meet our requirements.
----
commissioner Wilsey commented on Section l7.54.020.U., soils
engineering firms and testing firms, stating he feels these
items corresponds with what they (Butterfield Engineering &
Surveys) are doing. There is enough latitude under this
section to work with this particular applicant.
commissioner Brinley stated that she was
changing the code, for the reasons expressed.
change this zone it would be a blanket
correct. In other words, the zone is changed
that any developer can come in and they could
whoever, as far as commercial office space.
not in favor of
If we were to
change city-wide,
and that means,
build and rent to
Associated Planner Magee responded in the affirmative.
commissioner Brinley stated this is why
Permit is important, if you are going to put
think that the Planning Commission,
responsibility of the Planning Commission, to
are designated and the right things are going
a Conditional Use
something in I
and it is the
make sure things
in.
commissioner Brinley asked Mr.
zoned when purchased.
Brown what the property was
---'
Mr. Brown responded that the property was zoned M-l.
Commissioner Brinley stated that you then had it rezoned.
Mr. Brown stated that the property was changed to C-M in 1986,
and that was when the C-M Zoning Code first came into effect.
Commissioner Brinley asked Mr. Brown when he had the property
rezoned if this was not the original concept for this area, to
be totally commercial-manufacturing.
Mr. Brown responded that when the code was first
formulated it was a bit of a mystery of what that zone
include and there was discussion surrounding it.
being
would
commissioner Brinley asked Mr. Brown if he was happy with the
C-M Zoning.
-
Planning Commission Minutes
December 20, 1988
Page 4
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-9 - BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
Mr. Brown responded in the negative, and stated that he feels
that it is very restrictive.
Commissioner Brinley stated that in the past there has not been
a problem with, Brookstone Development, getting a Conditional
Use Permit for various uses.
Mr. Brown responded that if you have civil engineers listed
then you do not have to get a Conditional Use Permit, if it is
listed as an acceptable use, why would you differentiate
amongst different civil engineering firms.
-
Commissioner Brinley
you would, but sees no
Use Permit, so that
within the center.
responded that she did not believe that
problem with asking for a Conditional
everyone is aware of what is happening
Commissioner Brinley asked if there was not a zone code amend-
ment to allow the use for the building in which we are now
meeting.
Associate Planner Magee responded that there was a zone code
amendment to allow the school district to located within this
building and a subsequent Conditional Use Permit. The County
Department of Social Service under an amendment which allowed
for this use and a subsequent Conditional Use Permit.
Commissioner Brinley stated that a Conditional Use
also granted for Bob's Lunch Box, Lutheran
Automotive repair.
Permit
Church,
was
and
Associate Planner Magee responded in the affirmative.
-
Commissioner Brinley commented on the County's MS-C Zoning,
asking if this were not a pretty broad base, could you explain
some of the things that they do allow in that zoning.
Associate Planner Magee responded that the MS-C Zoning runs the
full gambit from allowing paper mills to meat and poultry
manufacturing, canning and they even have an agriculture
section. Whereas the City's C-M District does not address any
of those. Although, there are several similarities which have
been brought up there are also a lot of differences.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she has no problem with
working with Mr. Crowe and his establishment, who has been here
a long time, or working with them on a Conditional Use Permit.
Mr. Brown stated that at this point we were denied the right to
come in and ask for a Conditional Use Permit under the existing
zone. We were told that it was not an acceptable use and
therefore that was not an option for us. If it is in fact an
option, in the interest of time, because we have been on this
for three months, I would hope that the Commission would
examine all of the staff findings. I have done the parking
analysis and everything is in front of you this evening to __
possibly make a decision, even on a Conditional Use Permit, and
if this is an issue I would like the Planning Commission to
address this tonight, if they could.
Commissioner Brinley stated that the issue is the changing of
the zone itself.
Chairman Brown commented on the intent of the uses allowed in
the County's M-SC Zoning, and agrees with the County's intent,
but the problem is that they have allowed uses that have
Planning commission Minutes
December 20, 1988
Page 5
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-9 = BROOKS TONE DEVELOPMENT CONTINUED
totally smacked the intent.
Chairman Brown stated that what has happened with each of your
particular cases is promote no growth, not including adding new
jobs for the community, we have merely relocated the two
largest employers in the community into cheaper rental space.
Mr. Brown stated that it is not cheaper rental space and would
like to point that out.
Chairman Brown commented on Mr. Lindar's comment that there are
no office spaces currently under construction or active in the
community, and suggested that this is possibly a concern of
commercial builders as we are allowing commercial uses to
locate in manufacturing districts.
Chairman Brown stated that it was not up to this body to adjust
the intent of the code nor to address the vacancy factor of
this park.
Commissioner Wilsey stated that he would strongly urge staff to
work with the applicant, under Section l7.544.020.U.
There being no further discussion, Chairman Brown called for a
motion.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to deny Zone Code Amendment
88-9, based on the Findings listed in the Staff Report, second
by Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
Zone Code Amendment 88-10 - city of Lake Elsinore - Moved to
the end of PUBLIC HEARINGS.
-
2.
Tentative Parcel Map 22385 Dura Construction - Associate
Planner Last presented a request to subdivide a single-lot into
four (4) parcels. A ten acre site located south of Collier
Avenue between Third Street and Crane Street.
3 .
Associate Planner Last requested the following amendments:
Condition No. 17:
Condition No. 18:
-
Condition No. 24:
Condition No. 27:
Condition No. 28:
"Provide 30 foot dedication for Third
Street and improvements as part of Phase
3 and 4."
"Provide 30 foot dedication on Crane
Street and improve Crane Street and
curve return with transition to existing
Collier Avenue improvements to provide
two (2) travel lanes and parking as part
of the first phase of map on Crane
Street."
"Developer shall provide ingress and
egress easements for parcel 4 to access
Crane street. Width to be approved by
the City Engineer."
"Ingress and egress to Collier Avenue
shall be limited to one driveway with
right turn ingress and egress only for
the entire project frontage subject to
the approval of the City Engineer to be
determined at development."
"Developer
shall enter into a sub-
Planning Commission Minutes
December 20, 1988
Page 6
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 22385 = DURA CONSTRUCTION CONTINUED
Condition No. 33:
division agreement with the City for
construction of public work off-site
improvements and submit bonds
established by the City Engineer per
phased map."
"An environmental constraints map shall
be filed with the City Engineer showing
floodplain areas."
"Prior to recordation of any phase all
perimeter dedications and flood control
easements shall be dedicated or
provided."
....."
Condition No. 38:
Chairman Brown opened the public hearing at 7:49 p.m., asking
if anyone wished to speak in favor of Tentative Parcel Map
22385.
Mr. Fred Crowe, Butterfield Engineering/Keith Companies,
stated that they met with some of staff this afternoon as we
had concern with the conditions as earlier written; basically,
made some recommendations and staff agreed with those and they
added an addendum to the conditions. Condition number 38 is
the only one that we have not discussed, this was discussed
briefly with the City Engineer, and I thought that we had
worked out a situation on the first phase.
Mr. Crowe stated that this is a four phase parcel map, four
separate parcel maps over the one tentative map. Parcel 3 will
be the first phase, it is on Crane Street. The reason that we __
want to build in that area is that it adjoins the Larmor
project just across Crane Street, where we have the floodplain
situation.
Mr. Crowe stated that when the Outflow Channel is built--County
Flood Control is working on the design of the Third Street
Channel, the Wasson Creek Channel and the El Toro Channel to
try and build those at the same time they build the Outflow
Channel, which they hope to begin the first of October. There
were too many questions to answer on what to do in that
floodplain, until it got down to the working drawings and the
construction of the Outflow Channel, once that is build the
floodplain will be confined to that channel. So we had
purposely intended not to the dedications for the flood channel
at this time, but do it before we recorded maps that adjoin the
channel, and we would prefer not to have condition number 38.
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor of
Tentative Parcel Map 22385. Receiving no response, Chairman
Brown asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving
no response, Chairman Brown asked if anyone wished to speak on
the matter. Receiving no response, Chairman Brown closed the
public hearing at 7:53 p.m.
A lengthy discussion was held at
38, pertaining to dedications and
parcels 2 and 4 and whether
available.
the table on condition number
improvements; approvals for
or not this option would be
-
There being no further discussion at the table, Chairman Brown
called for a motion.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to recommend to City Council
adoption of Negative Declaration Number 88-40 and approval of
Tentative Parcel Map 22385 based on the Findings and subject to
Planning Commission Minutes
December 20, 1988
Page 7
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 22385 = DURA CONSTRUCTION CONTINUED
the 37 Conditions of Approval listed in the Staff Report and
with the following amendments:
Condition No. 17:
Condition No. 18:
Condition No. 24:
Condition No. 27:
Condition No. 28:
-
Condition No. 33:
Condition No. 38:
"Provide 30 foot dedication for Third
Street and improvements as part of Phase
3 and 4."
"Provide 30 foot dedication on Crane
Street and improve Crane Street and
curve return with transition to existing
Collier Avenue improvements to provide
two (2) travel lanes and parking as part
of the first phase of map on Crane
Street."
"Developer shall provide ingress and
egress easements for parcel 4 to access
Crane Street. width to be approved by
the City Engineer."
"Ingress and egress to Collier Avenue
shall be limited to one driveway with
right turn ingress and egress only for
the entire project frontage subject to
the approval of the City Engineer to be
determined at development."
"Developer shall enter into a sub-
division agreement with the City for
construction of public work off-site
improvements and submit bonds
established by the City Engineer per
phased map."
"An environmental constraints map shall
be filed with the City Engineer showing
floodplain areas."
"Prior to recordation of any phase all
perimeter dedications and flood control
easements shall be dedicated or
provided."
Second by Commissioner Kelley with discussion.
Discussion at the table ensued on whether or not a separate
instrument was appropriate/inappropriate for condition number
38.
There being no further discussion, Chairman Brown called for
the question.
Approved 4-0
-
AT THIS TIME, 8:10 P.M., THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECESSED.
AT THIS TIME, 8:20 P.M., THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECONVENED.
Chairman Brown asked for and received the consensus of the table to
consider BUSINESS ITEMS 1 AND 2 prior to PUBLIC HEARING NUMBER 3.
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Street Abandonment 88-4 - Dura Construction - Associate Planner
Last presented a request to abandon a 35' x 600' portion of
Collier Avenue between Third and Crane Street.
Mr. Crowe, Butterfield Engineering, gave clarification on the
Planning Commission Minutes
December 20, 1988
Page 8
STREET ABANDONMENT 88-4 = DURA CONSTRUCTION CONTINUED
disposition of the property to be abandoned.
There being no discussion at the table, Chairman Brown called
for a motion.
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to advise City Council that
Street Abandonment 88-4 is in conformance with the Goals and
Objectives of the General Plan based upon the Findings and the
1 Condition of Approval listed in the Staff Report, second by
Commissioner Kelley.
Approved 4-0
---
2. Extension of Time for Conditional Use Permit 87-8 - Del Taco _
Associate Planner Magee presented a request for an extension of
time for Conditional Use Permit 87-8 to allow a drive-thru
aisle in conjunction with a fast food restaurant, located on
the east side of Lakeshore Drive approximately 245 feet north
of Riverside Drive.
There being no discussion at the table, Chairman Brown called
for a motion.
Motion by Commissioner Kelley to approve Extension of Time for
Conditional Use Permit 87-8 subject to the 3 Conditions of
Approval listed in the Staff Report, second by Commissioner
Brinley.
Approved 4-0
PUBLIC HEARINGS
3. Zone Code Amendment 88-10 - City of Lake Elsinore - Community __
Development Director Miller presented a request to amend the
Zoning Code amending standards relating to fences, walls, and
landscaping in residential districts; allow for keeping of farm
animals; provide special standards for hillside development;
make various technical corrections; change minimum lot sizes
and permitted densities and setbacks in the R-3 District;
change lighting, landscaping and landscape setback and outside
storage requirements in non-residential districts, which would
apply city-wide.
Chairman Brown opened the
if anyone wished to speak
88-10.
public hearing at 8:27 p.m., asking
in favor of Zone Code Amendment
Mr. Bill Gray, 1115 17th Street, Hermosa Beach, California,
stated that he owns property on Lakeview Street between Cowell
and Manning. My concern is that we have a variance in the
process, which I believe is scheduled for January 3. In
discussion with staff I was advised that this evening you would
be considering changes in hillside areas for front yard
setbacks and changes in the rear yard setback for a level rear
yard. Basically, I came down to find out what was going to be
discussed.
Mr. Gray presented a map illustrating his property and showing __
the actual deeded right-of-way and where the graded road is
located. If we comply with the present requirements of Title
17 and other requirements, a 10-foot deeding of the front yard
to the City for slope easement, we end up having to put the
footprint of the house down the hill some 35 feet from the
road, and since it is on a down sloping lot we have some rear
problems with the slope and the retaining of it and having a
flat backyard.
Community Development Director Miller stated
that
when
we
Planning Commission Minutes
December 20, 1988
Page 9
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-10 - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE CONTINUED
-----
addressed the changes in the zoning Code, the R-1 District was
primarily intended for flatter areas and we talked about a
separate zone for hillside areas, for various reasons that has
not come about. What we are suggesting in the changes, in
addressing these hillside areas, which have been zoned R-1,
that where there are lots of more than 25 percent slope that
the setback be reduced to 10 feet for both garage and structure
as long as they provide two paved open parking spaces outside
of the public right-of-way.
Community Development Director Miller stated that if you look
at the map Mr. Gray has provided you will see that he does in
fact meet that requirement and his lot does slope considerably
in excess of 25 percent, so this section would address his
concerns in that regard, from the existing right-of-way. The
Engineering Department has been working on the right-of-way
concerns in the Country Club Heights area and that is a matter
of separate action.
Mr. Gray asked if this would be discussed this evening.
Chairman Brown responded in the negative.
Chairman Brown stated that he would like to go on with the
pUblic hearing and as we get into specific items we can address
your concerns.
~
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor of
Zone Code Amendment 88-10.
Mr. Kevin Jeffries, 17666 Grand Avenue, Lake Elsinore, stated
that the amendments are great, at least for our project on the
lake side of Grand Avenue near the Ortega Highway.
Mr. Jeffries commented on Section 17.14.080.C, regarding the
eight foot wall and the specific approval of the Planning
Commission. By what means does that approval get granted is it
through a specific application, additional fees, granted in a
single-family minor design review if that wall is incorporated
in that project, or is this a separate submittal?
Mr. Jeffries commented on section 17.14.130 (D).5, regarding
alternative fencing requirements, thinks the Commission should
consider waiving or alternating the fence requirements for
corner lots.
Mr. Jeffries commented on section 17.23.090, regarding the
fifty percent lot coverage, feels that this will be a benefit.
~
Chairman Brown asked if anyone else wished to speak in favor of
Zone Code Amendment 88-10. Receiving no response, Chairman
Brown asked if anyone wished to speak in opposition. Receiving
no response, Chairman Brown closed the public hearing at 8:37
p.m.
Commissioner Kelley commented as follows:
Page 2, Section 17.14.060 how do assure that the land-
scaping will be maintained in good condition?
Page 2, Section 17.14.1320(D).4. - vinyl coated chain link
fencing, we do not allow this now, do we?
Page 2, Section 17.23.030.A.2 - do you need a Conditional Use
Permit to keep a horse on a half acre?
Planning Commission Minutes
December 20, 1988
Page 10
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-10 = CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE CONTINUED
Page 5, Section 17.28.060.3 - what is the typical dwelling
unit to lot size in apartments?
Community Development Director Miller responded to Commissioner
Kelley's comments, respectively, as follows:
There are already several indications of this in our -J
ordinance, but it gives us a clearer statement to conduct
enforcement actions, if necessary, where there is a real
problem.
There has been concern about chain link fencing, as expressed
in the committee discussions particularly in the hillside
areas. It was felt that if there is a desire for fencing it
should be open fencing of some type, and preserve views.
In the affirmative, stating that this would be added to the
Conditional Use Permit in an R-l Zone. If you were in a R-A
Zone, which we have on the books, but currently do not have
applied anywhere then it would be permitted as an accessory.
Most codes express density in terms of dwelling units, and 24
dwelling units per acre or 20 dwelling units per acre is a
very common density in many mUlti-family zones.
Commissioner Wilsey commented as follows:
Page 2, Section 17.14.130 (D).l- with regard to new sub-
divisions--Iots less than 12,000 square feet to provide
privacy screening, walls are not required on lots 12,000
square feet or larger. I would like further discussion on __
this.
Page 2, Section 17.14.130(D).2 - infill lots with regard to
adjacent fencing. We might add verbiage where we are
assured that the adjacent fencing would meet standards.
Page 2, Section 17.14.130(0).4 that the wrought iron
fencing would pertain to and go right back up to item 1 in
new SUbdivisions in regards to fencing alternatives for view
lots.
Page 3, Section 17.23.080 - why are we reducing the setback
for direct garage entry from 22 feet to 20 feet. I would
like further discussion.
Page 4, Section 17.23.090 maximum lot coverage of all
structures in the R-l District shall be fifty percent, I
assume that we will continue that primarily to infill, is
this correct or R-l as a whole?
Page 4, Section 17.24.100 - except as otherwise provided for
accessory structures, the maximum building height in the R-2
District shall be 30 feet, etc. The original read 32 feet,
why the reduction?
--
Page 5, 17.28.070 - Assume that this should have been eighty
(80) and not eight (8).
Page 5, 17.28.100 - building height, noticed that this has
been reduced to 30 feet from 35.
Community Development Director Miller responded to Commissioner
Wilsey'S comments, respectively, as follows:
That would apply to the R-l District as a whole.
In regard to building height the original read 30 feet.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 20, 1988
Page 11
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-10 - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE CONTINUED
commissioner Brinley commented as follows:
Page 8, Chapter 17.66 - Parking - In the C-M, M-1 and M-2
Districts - glad to see the changing of outdoor storage area
from accessory to a conditional use.
Page 7, In All Commercial and Manufacturing Districts - would
like further discussion on the replacement of subsection at
the end of each section on permitted uses.
Chairman Brown called Mr. Gray back to the podium, and asked
him about his development, and commented on the actual position
of Lakeview Avenue, being 35 feet from the road, and if he
understood that the existing graded road has no relationship to
where his property lies.
Mr. Gray responded in the affirmative.
Chairman Brown asked Mr. Gray to give a brief explanation on
his experience in merging those lots.
Mr. Gray stated that the lots have not yet been merged, nor has
an application been submitted to the City for a lot merger.
r--
Chairman Brown asked Mr. Gray to address his concerns on the
rear yard requirements.
Mr. Gray stated that in the existing ordinance, Section
17.23.080, it states that the front yard setback is 20 feet or
22 feet for a garage, but my concern is with the rear yard
where it says the rear yard shall be 20 feet. Item 3 states
that finished slopes in excess of 5 percent shall not be
permitted within 15 feet of the main dwelling unit. This means
that we have to build something like a 20 foot high retaining
wall on this lot to comply.
Mr. Gray stated that he has a problem of understanding the 10
foot slope easement requirement and was informed that this
would be discussed tonight.
Community Development Director Miller stated
Engineering Department has been working on is
foot easement, so that slopes could go
necessary, and this easement would not affect
Chairman Brown commented as follows:
that what
suggesting a
into that area
the setbacks.
the
10
as
Page 2, Section 17.14.080.C - how was this done? If it was
submitted separately would it then go through the normal
process?
Community Development Director Miller responded that under the
changing policy that has recently been approved by City
Council, virtually all new construction will come before
Planning Commission for approval. Therefore, we would
anticipate that any walls such as this, as long as they were
presented at the time of development would be approved by
Planning Commission. If it were submitted separately then we
would probably be looking at Minor Design Review.
Discussion at the table ensued on the above mentioned sections
with the fOllowing suggestions:
Section l7.l4.130(D).1 - Instead of saying that walls are
not required say that walls may be waived, or delete
verbiage "of lots less than 12,000 square feet to provide
Planning Commission Minutes
December 20, 1988
Page 12
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-10 - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE CONTINUED
privacy and screening" and incorporate verbiage for large
lots into subsection 0.5, of this section.
Section 17.14.130(0).2 - add verbiage "existing old fencing
to meet standards". In developments of less than four a 6'
wooden fence is acceptable for lot line to lot line and for
rear lot lines, and all developments with street view lots ~
shall have masonry walls.
Section 17.14.130(0).4 delete
fencing, and the city to provide
"view" or delete the word.
vinyl coated
definition of
chain link
the word
Section 17.14.130(0).5 - the Planning Commission may approve
alternative materials or waive fencing requirements,
especially in hillside areas or for large lots.
Commissioner Brinley commented on the verbiage "A list of these
uses shall be maintained in the Planning Department for future
reference, listed under In All Commercial and Manufacturing
Districts, 1.S, page 7 - asking when someone comes in for a
conditional use permit if you will automatically list the
things that are in there now and keep it with the file.
Community Development Director Miller responded that there is a
list of permitted uses in the code and those are the only uses
permitted. Under conditional uses there is a list of uses that
are permitted and then this statement "if the Planning
Commission finds by resolution there may be other uses",
listing uses is a very difficult situation.
Community Development Director Miller stated that what most
jurisdictions do and we would suggest, that this be changed and
allow: under permitted uses, other uses that are determined to
be in accord with the purpose of this chapter, and have
characteristics similar to those use listed in the permitted
use section, be allowed to be approved by the Community
Development Director. This allows for new uses that come on
line that have not even been conceived yet. But if they are
similar to permitted uses they could be approved, and then
retain the section about conditional uses.
....,
Commissioner Wilsey commented as follows:
Section 17.38.040 Lighting Standards - the new lighting
standard is more ambiguous than the old lighting standard
with regard to low sodium.
Community Development Director Miller responded that this
reflects discussion that City Council had some time ago in
which they indicated that they were not comfortable with
requiring that on all new development.
Commissioner Kelley stated that he remembers this, and would
personally like to re-instigate that to see if something could
be done. We do have a few new members on City Council and not __
sure where they stand.
Community Development Director Miller stated that this may be
something that would be the subject of a study session.
Chairman Brown suggested that Southern California Edison and
Palomar Observatory be contacted and a presentation made on low
sodium, and get all of the issues out on the table and resolved
one way or another.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 20, 1988
Page 13
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 88-10 - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE CONTINUED
~
Motion by Chairman Brown to continue Zone Code Amendment 88-10
to the meeting of January 3, 1989 for re-write, second by Com-
missioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS
Community Development Director Miller stated that the Planning
Commission had discussed the possibility of a field trip, in early
January, to view small lots and requested that a date be scheduled.
Community Development Director Miller stated
Saathoff indicated to him that any Saturday
satisfactory with him~
that Commissioner
in January would be
A brief discussion was held on what date to schedule for this field
trip.
The Planning Commission scheduled January 7, 1989, for the field
trip.
Chairman Brown requested that the Commissioners be sent notifi-
cation on the time and place and appropriate attire.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
~ Commissioner wilsev
Nothing to report.
commissioner Kellev
Appreciated the article on Protecting Industry from Yuppies and
Other Invaders.
Asked if City Council scheduled a study session.
Community Development Director Miller stated that City Council
scheduled a study session for January 7, and discussed scheduling a
time at that study session for another study session.
commissioner Brinlev
Asked about the work being done by the Country Club Heights
Committee and if this would be coming before the Commission soon or
will this be tabled until after a study session with City Council?
Community Development Director Miller stated that we have included
recommendations in this to address many of the problems that have
been brought up by the Country Club Heights Committee. However,
Councilman Buck has continued to meet with various people in the
Country Club Heights and indicated that he was going to be bring
recommendations forward to City Council in the near future.
Asked about the General Plan status.
Community Development Development Director stated that we have
suggested to City Council that they consider an expanded committee,
for which we are currently advertising for interested persons. We
anticipate meeting with the committee to consider the documents
that are being generated by the consultant in early February.
Wished staff, Council and everyone a happy holiday season.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 20, 1988
Page 14
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
Chairman Brown
Wished everyone a happy holiday.
Commissioner Saathoff
Absent
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore
Commission adjourned at 9:32 p.m. Motion by Commissioner
second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4-0
~
"
Approved, .
Jeff Br
Chairman
~UllY~f'm~tted.
Linda Grindstaff
Planning Commission
Secretary
.....
Planning
Wilsey,
.--
.......