HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-15-2000 City Study SessionMINUTES
CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION
130 SOUTH MAIN STREET
LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA
TUESDAY, JUNE 15, 2000
~~~~~~~~~:~:~*~~:~*:~~~~~~*~:~~~:~~~~~~:~~:~*~~~~*~~:~~~x:~~~~:~~:~~:~~*~~
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Brinley called the City Council Study Session to order at 239 p.m.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Mayor Brinley.
ROLL CALL
PRESENT
ABSENT:
COUNCILMEMBERS: KELLEY, PAPE
SCHIFFNER, BRINLEY
COUNCILMEMBERS:
METZE
(Councilman Metze arrived
at 2:41 p.m.)
Also present were: City Manager Watenpaugh, Assistant City Manager Best,
City Attorney Leibold, Administrative Services Director Boone, Community
Development Director Brady, Community Services Director Sapp,
Information/Communications Director Dennis, Recreation & Tourism
Manager Edelbrock, City Treasurer Ferro and City Clerk Kasad.
DISCUSSION ITEM
a. Cam~ground Concessionaire Proposals (F:92.1)
City Manager Watenpaugh presented an overview of the background
of the City's Campground and explained that the City has been
operating the Lake Elsinore Recreation Area and Campground as a
result of the removal of the former concessionaire. He advised that in
1999 the City mailed out Requests for Proposals and of the three
submitted two later contacted the City and withdrew their proposals
due to the investment that would have to be made, the remaining
applicant is Sunland RV Resorts.
COUNCILMAN METZE ARRIVED AT THE MEETING AT 2:41
P.M.
City Manager Watenpaugh indicated that the City had developed an
aggressive capitalization list of the items that needed to be done to the
Campground to bring it up to the standard that the Council and
community would like to see as follows:
PAGE TWO - STUDY SESSION - J UNE 15, 2000
CAMPGROUND IMPROVEMENT PRIORITIES AND GOALS
High Priority (0-1 year)
• Upgrade electrical system
• Upgrade sewer system
• Redesign site layout to accommodate larger units with two
vehicles
• Full hook-ups at all sites
• Upgrade landscaping to increase privacy
• Overlay streets
• Construct new restroom and shower facilities
• Repair residential unit to current City code
• Installation of playground equipment
• Repair/replace e~sting irrigation system
Mid-term Priority (2 to 3 years)
• Construction of on-site general store
• Construction of on-site laundry facility
• Replacement of existing fencing
• Recreation equipment rental facility
• EstaBlish swimming beach '
Long-term Development Goals (2 years to 7 years)
• Construction of clubhouse facility
• Marina development with fuel docks, slips, dry storage, launching
facility, parking lot
• Hotel facility and related retail and entertainment facilities
City Manager stated that Reza Paydar and Jim Waring of Sunland RV
Resort would present an overview and brief summary of what they
would proposes for the Campground for Council consideration.
1VIr. Paydar, Sunland RV Resorts, stated that they are operators of
"five star" RV Parks and currently operate five recreational parks in
Southern California. He stated that most of their campgrounds have
Meeting Hall facilities and considerable improvements have been
made to each of their facilities to meet the industry needs and to meet
the patrons' expectations. He gave an overview of the improvements
ha~e been made on a RV Park they took over in Hemet. He noted that
they have been very successful in turning around projects that have
failed; and have made it their expertise to renovate old campgrounds
and noted their excitement regarding the City's Campground. He
explained that immediately upon the completion of negotiations with
PAGE THREE - STUDY SESSION - JiJNE 15, 2000
the City, they would bring their team of consultants on-site for
detailed studies. He stated that the team consists of a professional
civil engineer, utility consultant, architects, landscape architects and
one or more site planners for formulation of an optimum plan and
development sequence for the Lake Elsinore property. He noted that
one of the key phases would be the development of the boating docks
and Marina. He compared his proposed facility with the other nearby
facilities and noted that they provide basic service, whereas they
intend to provide a"five star" facility that will attract the right type of
traveler to the park. He noted the amount of time that would be
necessary to do a complete feasibility for the site and prior to starting
improvements. Mayor Brinley asked how long the process would
take should the City award the contract. She asked if they were able
to afford the study. Mr. Paydar assured Council that they were well
able to fund the study. Mayor Brinley asked how long they felt it
would take to bring the park on line. Mr. Paydar stated that subject to
the issues regarding the Lake and potential flooding mitigation for
maximum advantage to the Lake for patrons. Mayor Brinley stated
that she understood their constraints, however she asked for an
estimate. Mr. Paydar indicated that it would take approximately 60
days.
Mr. Waring, Sunland RV Resorts, stated that a letter was distributed
to Council that provides a rough outline of the time schedule they feel
might be appropriate to the project. He stated that once there was a
Memorandum of Understanding signed by his firm and the City, then
the team could be brought on-site and the real work would begin. He
noted that they have been using the 1994 study that called out $6 1/2
million for the existing RV sites, as a frame of reference. He inquired
if for example they raised the site in front of what would be the
Marina to 1254', would the City have the permits with FEMA and the
Corp of Engineers to take this action or would they have to apply for
the permits, which takes approximately 18 months. City Attorney
Leibold stated that the City does have a good working relationship
with the Army Corp of Engineers and the other resource agencies,
which would assist in the common goal.
Councilman Metze noted the amount of use the Campground has
experienced in the past and noted that with improvements he felt that
this would be possible again. He asked Nick Nash (resident &
business owner), about the Outflow Channel; how much water it
carries out during high storm times; and how it affects the different
businesses in the area. Nick Nash stated that the Outflow Channel
handles the majority of the water, however he emphasized that if the
proposed RV Park did not have a launch facility, then they would be
wasting their time. Mayor Brinley stated that she has lived in Lake
Elsinore since 1977 and noted the amount of "Snowbirds" that visit
and stay in Lake Elsinore. She noted that until the Floods of 1980, the
Local businesses thrived on "Snowbird" business throughout the
PAGE FOUR - STUDY SE5SION - JUNE 15, 2000
winter. She stated that she felt that they would be able to draw that
business back again with the proposed facilities. Mr. Paydar stated
that they have all the latest technology at their other facilities, which
includes internet access to the RV sites.
Mayor Pro Tem Pape asked if Mr. Paydar intended to incorporate the
group camping area into RV spaces as well. Mr. Paydar noted that
they had to review the entire site and it could include reconfiguring
the entire property. He stated that it was his understanding that
underground utilities do not exist in that area and this will have to be
done. Mayor Pro Tem Pape asked how many sites were proposed.
Mr. Paydar stated that they will be sensitive to the existing landscape,
therefore it will take a complete study to ascertain how many spaces
they will be able to develop. Mayor Pro Tem Pape asked if Mr.
Paydar had a way to market to the "Snowbirds". Mr. Paydar stated
that they spend approximately $1/2 million a year in advertising and
Lake Elsinore will include an extra $200,000 to $300,000 a year for
further advertising to ensure the necessary traffic for the Park. He
stated that repeat business is vital. Mayor Pro Tem Pape clarified the
cost for the Campground. Mr. Waring stated that the 1994 study was
only used as a frame of reference. Mayor Pro Tem Pape questioned
the high priority in the first year. City Manager Watenpaugh stated
that when the Contract is awarded, the whole park will be closed
down and improvements will be made at that time. Mayor Pro Tem
I'ape asked how long the improvements would take. Mr. Paydar
stated that without people to work around, it would take
approximately 9 months. He stated that if they had the entire property
open to work on, it would go much faster. Mr. Waring stated that it
would also depend on the raising of the property to the elevation of
1254' and the permit process.
Councilwoman Kelley stated that she was told that the Campground
would go to all RV's and she stated that at this time the local Scouts
use the group campgrounds frequently. She expressed concern
regarding the shift in the type of park and services offered to an all
RV park. Mr. Paydar stated that it depends on what the City wants on
the property. He stated that the two types of facilities could not be
mixed. Mayor Brinley asked if they could place the two different
types of camping in two different areas. Mr. Paydar stated that it
depended of what the Council wished; but explained that if the
Council wished to cater to and increase tourism it was necessary to
attract a specific crowd to Lake Elsinore. Councilwoman Kelley
stated that at this time the youth groups are an integral part of the
Campground and do use the facilities quite a bit. She noted that the
Campground currently offers both tent and RV camping and while she
understood what Mr. Paydar was saying, a lot of the youth groups use
the facility and this is a concern to them. She noted that the groups
are currently allowed to use the facilities at no cost and as a result they
PAGE FIVE - STUDY SESSION - JUNE 15, 2000
do improvement projects to return the favor to the City.
Councilman Schiffner stated that he understands what was being said
about shifting, however he saw it as shifting from a non-profitable
operation to an operation that may be profitable. He asked if this
contract would include the property to the west that has not been
developed to date. City Manager Watenpaugh stated that it was all
negotiable. Mr. Paydar stated that when this type of a project is done
it is attractive to have the ability to expand. Councilman Schiffner
indicated that Mr. Paydar's team will be doing the study and
developing plans during the summer season; and when the point is
reached to shut Campground down, the season will be over; and
before the next summer the Campground will reopen. Mr. Waring
stated that it does depend on the permit process, but that would be
their hope.
City Manager Watenpaugh stated that he understood Councilwoman
Kelley's concerns; however the reason that the City is looking far a
concessionaire was because the City was not making money on the
Campground; and if the City continues to give it away for free, then
the City has to subsidize it through the General Fund. He noted that
there are other facilities the Scouts can use within the City. He stated
that he couldn't speak for all concessionaires, however he couldn't
imagine many who would give up 1/3 of their facility for free
camping. He stated that it was his understanding that the Council
wanted a 1 S` class facility to bring "Snowbirds" in and provide family
RV camping and have Lake Elsinore recognized as a tourist
destination. City Manager Watenpaugh stated that there are a lot of
Oceanside residents who drive their RV's to the beach and pay to be
on the beach, including families. He noted that tent camping is rural
camping and very rarely do you find tent camping in an urban setting.
Councilwoman Kelley reminded Council that they are accountable to
the public and should be prepared to provide answers. She noted that
Council should be prepared with an answer of another facility for
scouts and other organizations.
Mayor Brinley suggested that perhaps when the park in not in season
they could allow the Scouts to use it for a 4 or 5 day period.
Councilwoman Kelley stated that she doesn't expect the RV Park to
provide for Scouts, however Council should find an alternate area for
them to camp. Councilman Metze stated that there are other cities
that have no lake or campgrounds and they do just fine.
Councilman Metze stated that he is looking for a shift in focus and
having something that makes money. He stated that what Council
was looking at is an operation that didn't attract the RV's, because
PAGE SIX - STUDY SESSION - JLTNE 15, 2000
there were no sewer hook-ups. He stated that if there were 10 sewer
hook-ups there would be 10 RV's in them all the time, however there
are not, and the facility is loosing money. He stated that what was
before Council to consider is a facility that may pay, but will also be a
major attraction.
Mayor Brinley concurred with Councilwoman Kelley and stated that
the City does want to facilitate the different users groups, however
Council needs to assure them that the City would find other
alternatives for them so it doesn't spoil their activities.
Councilman Metze asked if the City owned any other property on the
lake that the Scouts could use. He asked if this was not the type of
facility that catered to the boater from Orange County for the day.
Mr. Paydar stated that a lot of the people that camp in RV's bring their
boats with them.
Mayar Pro Tem Pape noted the opportunity for the campers to come
to Lake Elsinore in their RV's, launch their boats, tie up to the docks
and not have to take their boat in and out of the water each day.
Mayor Brinley concurred and noted her family's skiing activities.
Councilman Schiffner stated that the people that only want to come
for the day would use the Boat Launch and go home at the end of the
day, and he saw no conflict since it was two different types of uses.
City Manager Watenpaugh suggested that their study might want to
look at ha~ing a day use area that would increase their revenue. He
stated that there was a need for other boat launch facilities and this
would generate mare income for a much-needed service.
Councilman Metze asked if the Campground would retain the name.
Mr. Paydar stated that the only time that they change the name is if
there has been a great deal of negative associated with it. Councilman
Metze noted that the citizens of the community were going to expect
some access to the facility since it will be perceived that the City does
own it and a great many taa~ dollars have recently been invested in the
Campground. Mr. Paydar explained that the clubhouses on facilities
are booked a year or more in advance for the different camper clubs
and they haee found it necessary to stager the campers to
accommodate the use of the clubhouse.
Mayor Brinley stated that in the contract it could stipulate that the
concessionaire allow use of the clubhouse a set amount of times a
year. Mr. Waring stated that it would have to be set by availability
and handled on a case by case basis.
PAGE SEVEN - STUDY SESSION - JUNE 15, 2000
Councilwoman Kelley noted that when the Campground was closed,
there was an outcry in the community that Council closed their
Campground and the perception of the public was that it was theirs;
which made it more of a public relations issue.
Mayor Brinley stated that what she hears from the community is that
they want to see the Campground open, properly run, full of campers,
and utilized. She stressed that the public wants to see the
Campground paying for itself.
Councilman Metze noted the amount of tax dollars that a properly run
Campground will generate. He further noted the Outlet Center and the
amount of money from outside of the community that is brought to the
community. He stated that the objective was to draw the public
outside brings money into the community and does not put a drain on
public services.
City Manager Watenpaugh stated that Councilwoman Kelley
presented some valid points and the City would have to address
alternative solutions. He noted the free 4th of July entertainment and
the time came that the City had to place a charge on the entertainment;
but the citizens did not attend because they wanted it free. He stated
that the City has entered the 21 St Century and it is not possible to
provide free services anymore. He stated that there is no way to mix
everything that has been done in the past with what the City wants to
see done and have it work. He agreed that there would have to be
areas found to assist the Scouts; however just like the Baseball
Stadium, there is a fee for its use and the citizens still feel that it is
their stadium. He stated that the City cannot continue to give away
everything, or the City will never be out of debt. He stated that the
City must be business oriented.
Councilwoman Kelley concurred, however she stressed that Council
needs to be Community aware since those are the people that Council
must answer to. She stated that there are going to be issues, and it is
necessary to have answers ready.
Mr. Paydar stated that their clubhouse at the campground in Hemet is
made available to the public to rent far weddings, receptions and
things of that nature. Mayor Brinley noted that would be all the
public would want, would be having the ability to possibly use the
facilities.
Nick Nash stated that as he sees it, there is an opportunity to bring a
first class RV facility to the Lake and noted that there is plenty of land
around the Lake to develop for different venues. Councilman Metze
asked Mr. Nash as a local business owner, if he was in favor of the
proposed project. Mr. Nash stated that he was supportive and stated
that there is a need to start taking some steps up. He stated that this
PAGE EIGHT - STUDY SESSION -.TUNE 15, 2000
proposed project would provide an economic anchor for that end of
the Lake.
Mayor Brinley concurred with Mr. Nash and stated that an RV facility
would provide business to the local establishments year round. She
noted that when the Campground was in good operating order she had
to put her name on a waiting list to eat at the Park Plaza restaurant and
she feels that this could occur again.
Councilman Schiffner stated that he attended this Study Session to
hear a proposal of converting the run-down Campground to a 15` Class
RV Park that would be something that will bring some money and
people into Lake Elsinore. He stated that he was upset about the
possibility of holding on to what is there. He further stated that he
realizes the needs of the Scouts and something will have to be found
for them. He stressed the condition of the Campground and the need
to bring it up to modern standards.
Councilwoman Kelley stated that there are issues that will have to be
addressed and she felt that it was better to be in front of them instead
of behind them.
Mr. Nash stated that with a lst class facility, they will have their
clubhouse booked and if it is not, then he was sure that they would
make it available to boost revenue.
There was general discussion regarding the impact of the
Campground on local economics.
Mr. Waring stated that after they develop their RV facility it would
create an environment that will encourage the surrounding property to
upgrade: He further stated that eventually the whole north side of the
Lake would improve. Council concurred.
Mayor Pro Tem Pape questioned the a~ailability of reservations for
the Campground; or if they would it be a first come, first served basis.
Mr. Paydar explained that they have a very elaborate system in place,
which includes reservations on the Internet for the parks; and ne~
year they will be establishing a central reservation system, which
would include reservations on-site as well as off-site. Mayor Pro Tem
Pape stated that the minimum at each site would be water, sewer,
phone lines, TV cable, etc. Mr. Paydar noted that not only would
there be amenities on-site, but there would be amenities at the
clubhouse as well. He stated that the main infrastructure would be
improved all at the same time and the phasing plan would be for pad
development. Mayor Pro Tem Pape questioned the type of recreation
that would be provided such as horseshoe courts, swimming pool,
PAGE NINE - STUDY SESSION - JUNE 15, 2000
tennis courts, eta Mr. Paydar stated that it is necessary to provide all
of the amenities including an exercise room, pool, etc.; very similar to
a hotel.
Councilman Schiffner stated that he understood that all of this could
be worked out with a Memorandum of Understanding rather than a
full scale lease until Sunland RV Resorts has had the opportunity to
perform their evaluation and present Council with a firm plan. He
stated that he would not want to be involved in a 75-year lease until he
knew exactly what was going to happen.
Mayor Brinley stated that she would like to see Mr. Paydar arrange
some type of tour at their facility in Hemet to give Council the
opportunity to see the facility and provide a comfort level to be better
able to provide the community with first hand information.
Councilman Metze stated that he felt that Mr. Paydar was headed in
the right direction and he was in support of the project, provided the
attorneys can work out the agreement.
City Attorney Leibold questioned the improvements at the RV Park in
Hemet and asked if there were permanent residents on site while they
were trying to perform improvements. Mr. Paydar stated that there
were; and indicated that part of the reason that his company was
interested in the City Campground was because it did not contain
permanent residents. Council concurred that they do not want
permanent residents at the City Campground. Mayor Pro Tem Pape
stated that the only direction he would make of the City Attorney for
25 to 40 years down the road, if this is a long term agreement; that the
City include some performance issue so the City does not have to deal
with this problem again. City Attorney Leibold stated that clearly
there was a feasibility study period for Sunland RV Resorts; and
assuming the interest is strong, there is a negotiation period to get to
the point where the City and Sunland enter into a mutually agreeable
long term lease. She questioned if it was the preference that Sunland's
intention to step immediately into an Operating Agreement and the
Exclusive Negotiating Agreement or Memorandum of Understanding
outlining the basic terms of what both parties hope to attain in terms
of a long term lease, or if it was their preference that Sunland RV
Resorts was not physically on site for operations purposes until the
Long Term Agreement is reached.
Mr. Waring stated that one of the sensitive issues would be the term of
the lease.
Mayor Brinley stated that she does not want to see any permanent
residents on site. Mr. Waring assured Council that they do not want
permanent residents and have a nine-month limit. Mr. Paydar
PAGE TEN - STUDY SESSION - JUNE 15, 2000
e~lained that the distinction between Sunland and a single operator
was that they were expanding rapidly and intend to have a major
operation in recreational parks, not only in Southern California but
also in all the sun-belt states. He noted that they are putting huge
investments in infrastructure to give them their edge. He noted that
one of the reasons that they are insisting on a Long Term Agreement
is because this will be their first, because usually they purchase the
parks to develop. Councilman Metze questioned the meaning of Long
Term. Mr. Paydar stated that the minimum would be 75 years is to
facilitate recovery of investment and allow further investment and
improvement.
Councilman Schiffner stated that he would like to see everyone jump
through hoops to get this project moving. Council concurred.
ADJOURNMENT
THE CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION WAS ADJOURNED AT
~~
CITY OF LAKE
ATTEST:
~
~dCKI KASAD, C C, CITY CLERK
CI'I'Y OF LAKE ELSINORE