HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-01-1992 NAHMINUTES OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
JANUARY 1, 1992
THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
SCHEDULED FOR JANUARY 1, 1992, WAS CALLED DUE TO THE HOLIDAY AND
LACK OF AGENDA ITEMS.
Respectfully s emitted,
L' da Grin staff
P anning Commission
Secretary
MINUTES OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE 15TH DAY OF JANUARY 1992
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Wilsey.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Sellevold, Wilsey and
Saathoff
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: Brinley
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, City Planner
Christen, Associate Planner DeGange, and Senior Civil Engineer
O'Donnell.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Gilenson to approve Minutes of December 18,
1991, as submitted, second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 4 -0
Motion by Commissioner Gilenson to receive and file Minutes of
January 1, 1992, second by Commissioner Wilsey.
Approved 4 -0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Saathoff requested that Mr. Lehr address the item when it
comes up on the agenda. Mr. Lehr so agreed.
There being no further requests to speak, Chairman Saathoff closed
the PUBLIC COMMENTS Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Annexation No. 61; General Plan Amendment 91 -3; Zone Change
91 -5; Tentative Tract Map 24609 - Tomlinson & Sons (Zimmerman)
- Associate Planner DeGange presented a request for:
Annexation of 47 acres into the City of Lake
Elsinore;
Amendment to the General Plan to allow five
acres of Medium High Density Residential and
three acres of Neighborhood Commercial;
Pre -zone of 38 acres of Low Medium Density
Residential;
• 150 lot single - family residential subdivision
(TTM 24609).
These projects are located at the southwest intersection of
Riverside Drive and Grand Avenue with Dreycott Way and
Lakeview Avenue bounding the site to the west and south,
respectively.
Chairman Saathoff opened the public hearing at 7:12 p.m., and
asked for comments from the applicant's representative. He
stated than an opportunity for persons wishing to speak in
favor or opposition to the project will be provided and the
applicant can address said comments.
Mr. Bill Tomlinson, representing Tomlinson and Sons, gave a
brief history on the length of time his family has been in the
valley, business operation and their desire to have a quality
product. He then stated he would answer any questions that
arise.
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 15, 1992
Page 2
ANNEXATION NO. 61• GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 91 -3• ZONE CHANGE 91 -5•
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 24609 CONTINUED
Mr. George Zimmerman, 835 Christopher Street, West Covina,
Engineer for the project, commented on the drainage concerns
brought up by staff and their intent to meet the requirements
of Riverside County Flood Control and Water Conservation
District. We also have a copy of the West Lake Elsinore
Drainage Plan from that District. He then stated that
Lakeview Avenue was abandoned about a year ago -- vacated across
the frontage of the property by the County Board of
Supervisors.
Chairman Saathoff called Mr. Lehr to the podium.
Mr. Lehr, P.O. Box 145, Lake Elsinore, commented on access
being provided and property being landlocked with the abandon-
ment of Lakeview Avenue; tract having appropriate drainage and
water run -off, so that his adjacent property can be developed
in the future, submitted letter addressing concerns.
Chairman Saathoff stated a letter dated January 15, 1992, from
Mr. Jim Cifu, 15329 Contento, Lake Elsinore, has been received
opposing the proposal due to decrease of property value,
density, increase in traffic and crime. He then asked for
anyone wishing to speak on the proposal. The following
persons spoke:
Mr. Beau Day, 3385 Dreycott Avenue, Lake Elsinore, inquired
about zoning for the site. Concern is with Lakeview Avenue- -
access to his driveway and entrance to property, if the City
changes the nature and drainage of the street.
Ms. Susan Ince, 15301 E1 Contento Drive, Lake Elsinore,
commented on the density and its impact on the quality of
living, requested this be addressed.
Commander Brooks, 15297 E1 Contento Drive, Lake Elsinore,
expressed concern on the high density designation.
Mr. Ernest Ince, E1 Contento Drive, expressed concern on the
density and loss of privacy.
Mr. Harvey French, 15393 Mountain View Avenue, Lake Elsinore,
commented on the elevation and drainage of lots, amount of
rain fall predicted for the area, increase in population and
the number of homes, increase in traffic and circulation.
Chairman Saathoff asked staff to address the drainage issue.
Senior Civil Engineer O'Donnell referred to condition number
48, which stipulates that with development of this site all
drain facilities shall provide tract and immediate downstream
property owners or adjacent property owners with 100 year
storm flood protection. The applicant has to design for a 100
year flood event. Also, all lots have to drain either to the
street or drainage facilities, this is a standard condition.
Chairman Saathoff asked for anyone else wishing to address the
Commission. Receiving no response, the public hearing was
closed at 7:45 p.m.
Chairman Saathoff requested and received clarification on the
exact location of the Brooks and Ince property.
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 15, 1992
Page 3
ANNEXATION NO. 61• GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 91 -3• ZONE CHANGE 91 -51
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 24609 CONTINUED
Commissioner Wilsey commented as follows:
Condition number 47, with regard to drainage, requested
the words "concrete lined" be added. Also, add this to
condition 66.
Chairman Saathoff commented on the disadvantages of concrete
lined facilities.
Senior Civil Engineer O'Donnell stated the concern is quantity
flow, velocity and erosion control. There are different types
of concrete structures that have slope banks; however, in this
case, it does not make a difference because it is all
concrete.
Mr. Zimmerman, utilizing the posted rendering, point out the
storm water retention basins which would normally not be
concrete lined, but have concrete overflow sections. He then
commented on the proposed facilities in Laguna Avenue and the
expansion of facilities in Riverside Drive. If the Commission
wanted to add a condition for this tract requiring all
conduits or channels be concrete this would be fine, as long
as retention basins are not.
Requested staff address the density issue and existing
County regulations.
Associate Planner DeGange stated the existing County Zoning on
this property is exactly what the applicant is proposing for
the annexation -- Commercial along Grand Avenue and a multi-
family buffer behind that up to Laguna Avenue.
Discussion ensued on City /County zoning designation, concern
with strip zoning; Riverside and Grand being a major inter-
section in the future .
Condition number 33, this is not the standard Lighting
and Landscaping condition.
Associate Planner DeGange stated this condition is for slope
maintenance.
Discussion ensued on the need to be more specific with regard
to condition number 33, and analyze downslope situation on the
tract.
• Access to adjacent property, and the hope that Mr. Lehr
and the applicant get together and come to an agreement
between now and development.
At this time, 8:05 p.m., the Planning Commission recessed.
At this time, 8:15 p.m., the Planning Commission reconvened.
Commissioner Gilenson commented on the following:
• Page 2 of the Staff Report, under TTM, whether or not
staff has a breakdown of the square footage of the lots.
Would like this data provided.
• Page 5 of the Staff Report, Finding #4 and Page 30, of
Mitigated Negative Declaration 91 -14, under sewer, second
paragraph, "...serving overall area lack of capacity for
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 15, 1992
Page 4
additional connections. Construction will not be
permitted to occur unless, sufficient capacity is
available to service the proposed subdivision ". Nothing
from Elsinore Valley Municipal Water District requiring
this, so did not think that we could make this finding.
Considerable discussion ensued on Finding #4; comments and
conditions from Elsinore Valley Municipal Water District being
included in the Mitigated Negative Declaration; statement from
Elsinore Valley Municipal Water District that proposal meets
all requirements of the California Code; City Attorney to
review Finding and confirm that Planning Commission can make
said finding.
Condition number 22, 6th line down, would like to add
"City Attorney ".
Condition 25 and 30, believes these are the same as
condition 58, incorporate?
Associate Planner DeGange responded that condition number 30
was the result of a letter submitted to staff by the State
Department of Conservation Division of Mines.
Chairman Saathoff stated that condition 25 requires a bond and
condition number 58 does not. These address similar subjects.
Condition 33 and 57, duplicate conditions.
Chairman Saathoff stated that condition number 33 deals with
slope maintenance, and needs clarification. Condition number
57 deals with annexation to the City Lighting and Landscaping
District and should stand.
• Condition 44 and 13, duplicate conditions.
City Planner Christen responded these are duplicate
conditions; however, the overlap of conditions between
departments is not a problem.
Condition 50 and 56, duplicate conditions.
Community Development Manager Shear responded that one deals
with the lot itself and one deals with the overall drainage
off -site.
Condition 61, whether this is applicable.
Senior Civil Engineer O'Donnell stated he would like to see
the Minutes from the Board of Supervisors showing that it has
been abandoned. If abandoned, it is a mute issue.
• Page 25, of Mitigated Negative Declaration 91 -14, under
Schools -- question to staff and staff may want to check
with the City Attorney - -there has been some new case law
whereby the city can extract additional fees in addition
to the fees extracted from the school district to build
new schools.
Community Development Manager Shear referred to condition
number 34, which addresses school impact mitigation.
Chairman Saathoff suggested adding language "City should
investigate the feasibility of securing additional fees" to
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 15, 1992
Page 5
ANNEXATION NO. 61; GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 91 -3; ZONE CHANGE 91 -5;
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 24609 CONTINUED
condition number 34.
• Page 26, of Mitigated Negative Declaration 91 -14, under
Park and Recreation - -no provision for a park, neighbor-
hood park or park facilities. Would like to see added to
the conditions that some type of park be provided within
the complex.
Discussion ensued on the City's master planning for park
sites, maintenance of park sites, utilizing joint facilities
with the school district and regional park facilities, and
payment of fees.
• County Zoning of Multi- family Residential. Can not see
putting multi - family residential out there with the
single - family large lots across the way -- doesn't think
this will blend with the overall picture of the area.
Discussion ensued on the County /City Zoning designation;
density, and the need for a buffer between the commercial and
single - family, and said buffer being a quality product.
Commissioner Sellevold commented on condition number 27,
sidewalks being separated from curb with parkway. Concern is
maintenance of parkway.
Senior Civil Engineer O'Donnell requested that condition
number 27 be deleted as the standard street section, which we
have adopted for the General Plan, shows the sidewalk against
the curb.
Chairman Saathoff asked if Mr. Tomlinson or Mr. Zimmerman
would like to comment on any of the issues raised.
Mr. Tomlinson commented on the buffer issue and the apartment
proposal, stating they are concentrating on the housing
development right now, and the eight acres has not been looked
at - -it happens to be the current County designation. It is
our understanding that Grand Avenue and Riverside Drive, at
some point, will be a T- intersection and a major intersection.
Other proposals were discussed and this was the best proposal
we had worked out with staff.
Mr. Tomlinson stated the only persons he spoke with that
voiced objection were the Inces and Lehrs. As far as Mr.
Lehr's question, from what I understand, Lakeview has already
been abandoned.
Mr. Zimmerman commented on the Landscaping and Lighting Act
stating they would attempt to mitigate any problem on down
side slopes by changing the grade of some of those lots.
Chairman Saathoff suggested the following language be added to
condition 33 "to be determined by Community Development
Director, and this pertains specifically to slope maintenance
along right -of- ways ".
Mr. Zimmerman commented on access to the Lehr property,
stating the property has never had direct access by a
maintained street, over its own property, physical access is
up Riverside Avenue across private property. He then stated
that Lakeview has been vacated and sure the County would not
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 15, 1992
Page 6
ANNEXATION NO. 61; GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 91 -3; ZONE CHANGE 91 -5;
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 24609 CONTINUED
vacate if it landlocked a parcel. In fact, thinks this would
be reversible and illegal. He then referred to the rendering
and commented on the prescriptive right and legal access which
was not vacated.
Chairman Saathoff asked for further discussion from the table.
Commissioner Gilenson asked Mr. Zimmerman whether he could
furnish any information on the size of lot, number of homes
and size. Mr. Zimmerman responded the only data prepared for
this is what is shown on the tentative map.
Chairman Saathoff commented on Page 3 of the Staff Report,
under Special Project Concerns, asked what staff meant by
adequate building footprint, reference condition number 29.
Associate Planner DeGange clarified the intent of condition
number 29. City Planner Christen stated the concern is if the
map is sold, the possibility of a builder's standard product
not fitting on the lot.
Chairman Saathoff asked for the desire the Commission on
Finding #4. Commissioner Gilenson stated that he would like it
deleted or confirmation provided from the City Attorney that
the Commission can make this finding. Commissioner Wilsey
stated he had no problem with it one way or another.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER WILSEY TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
COMMENCEMENT OF PROCEEDINGS TO ANNEX TO THE CITY OF LAKE
ELSINORE ANNEXATION NO. 61 BASED ON THE FINDINGS LISTED IN THE
STAFF REPORT, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON.
APPROVED 4 -0
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER WILSEY TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
APPROVAL OF GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 91 -3 BASED ON THE FINDINGS
LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
APPROVED 3 -1 (Commissioner Gilenson voting no)
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER WILSEY TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
APPROVAL OF ZONE CHANGE 91 -5 BASED ON THE FINDINGS LISTED IN
THE STAFF REPORT, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
APPROVED 3 -1 (Commissioner Gilenson voting no)
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
APPROVAL OF TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 24609 BASED ON THE FINDINGS
WITH CONFIRMATION FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY THAT THE PLANNING
COMMISSION CAN MAKE FINDING #4, AND SUBJECT TO THE 69
CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT WITH THE
FOLLOWING AMENDMENTS:
Condition No. 22: Subdivider shall record CC & R's for the
project prohibiting on- street storage of
boats, motorhomes, trailers and trucks
over one (1) ton capacity. CC & R's
shall also include screening any ground
base disk and no roof - mounted or front
yard disk shall be allowed. CC & R's
shall be subject to the approval of the
City Attorney, Community Development
Director, or his designee, prior to
recordation of any deeds or final map.
CC & R's shall be recorded prior to
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 15, 1992
Page 7
ANNEXATION NO. 61• GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 91 -3• ZONE CHANGE 91 -5•
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 24609 CONTINUED
issuance of any Certificate of Occupancy
for the units when developed in the
future.
Condition No. 27: Al-1- eiF1_ewe11Es smell be separated frera
,,,,ye ......,ent D ,,.,,,.,_er DELETE.
Condition No. 33: Slope maintenance along right -of -ways
shall be maintained by a landscaping and
lighting maintenance assessment district
or homeowners association(s), subject to
Community Development Director approval.
Condition No. 34: Prior to the approval of the finalized
tentative map, applicant shall have
entered into a school impact mitigation
agreement with the school district. City
shall have considered the adequacy of the
school facilities or available means of
financing school facilities to meet the
needs and demand of new development
proposed in such tentative map to be
approved by the City. City should
investigate the feasibility of securing
additional fees.
Condition No. 47: All drainage facilities in this tract
shall be concrete lined, except retention
basins, and constructed to Riverside
County Flood Control District Standards.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER WILSEY.
APPROVED 4 -0
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
ADOPTION OF MITIGATED NEGATIVE DECLARATION 91 -14, SECOND BY
COMMISSIONER WILSEY.
APPROVED 4 -0
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD TO ADOPT RESOLUTION NO. 92 -1,
ENTITLED AS FOLLOWS:
RESOLUTION NO. 92 -1
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA, RECOMMEND-
ING TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF GENERAL
PLAN AMENDMENT 91 -3 FOR THE AMENDMENT OF THE
LAND USE ELEMENT OF THE 1990 GENERAL PLAN
CHANGING FIVE (5) ACRES AND THREE (3) ACRES
FROM LOW MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL TO MEDIUM
HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL AND NEIGHBORHOOD
COMMERCIAL, RESPECTIVELY.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER WILSEY.
APPROVED 3 -1 (Commissioner Gilenson voting no)
BUSINESS ITEMS
NONE
Minutes of Planning Commission
January 15, 1992
Page 8
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
City Planner Christen informed the Commission
Commissioner Gilenson for a Joint Study Session
ment Agreement and staff's attempt to schedule,
PLANNING COMMISSIONERIS COMMENTS
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Sellevold
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Wilsey
of the request by
on the TMC Develop-
Inquired about the status of the Hillside Grading Ordinance.
City Planner Christen responded that the Zoning Update is underway
and a component of it is a hillside development overlay. We have
been trying to get a study session, unsuccessful at this point, but
we expect to include it in with the TMC Development Agreement Study
Session. At least a rough draft for your review.
Chairman Saathoff
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Brinley
Absent
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 9:10 p.m., motion by Commissioner Gilenson,
second by Commissioner Sellevold.
Approved 4 -0
p Dyed,
✓ i V
Bill aathoff,
Chairman
Respectfully submitted,
Linda Grindstaff,
Planning Commission
Secretary
MINUTES OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 5, 1992
THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
SCHEDULED FOR FEBRUARY 5, 1992, WAS CALLED FOR LACK OF AGENDA
ITEMS.
Respectfully submitted,
Linda Grindstaff
Planning Commission
Secretary
HELD ON THE
OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
19TH DAY OF
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
FEBRUARY 1992
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Community Development Manager
Shear.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Brinley, Sellevold, Wilsey and
Saathoff
ABSENT:
: None
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, City Planner
Christen, Assistant Planner Villa, and Senior Civil Engineer
O'Donnell.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Wilsey to approve Minutes of January 15,
1992, as submitted, second by Commissioner Gilenson.
Approved 4 -0 (Commissioner Brinley abstaining)
Minutes of February 5, 1992, were received and filed.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no requests to speak, Chairman Saathoff closed the
PUBLIC COMMENTS Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
NONE
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Sign Program - Bruce Ayres - Assistant Planner Villa presented
a request to implement a Master /Uniform Sign Program to comply
with Condition No. 12 of approved Industrial Project 88 -1,
located at 18630 Collier Avenue.
Chairman Saathoff asked if the applicant or his representative
reviewed the conditions; if there were concerns or problems.
Mr. Steve Harriman, representing the applicant, responded in
the negative.
Commissioner Gilenson asked if a zone change would be required
to bring the zoning into conformance with the General Plan, as
referenced under Special Project Concerns.
Community Development Manager Shear responded this will be
resolved with the General Plan Clean -up.
Commissioner Gilenson commented on can signs - -felt it was the
consensus of both the Commission and Council that can signs
not be allowed, and requested this be added as condition
number 9.
Commissioner Brinley stated her concern was on the can signs.
She then commented briefly on the vandalism and maintenance
problems associated with can signs.
Commissioner Wilsey stated he was also concerned with can
signs, and questioned whether the Commission wanted to carry
this through the CM and M Zones, as well as regular commercial
applications.
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 19, 1992
Page 2
SIGN PROGRAM CONTINUED
Chairman Saathoff commented on this being a request to comply
with condition 12 of Industrial Project 88- 1-- development of
a Master Sign Program and no other specifics; whether a permit
was pulled when the 519" center identification sign was
installed, and whether the applicant was informed of the
City's desire not to use can signs.
Community Development Manager Shear responded that a permit
was pulled for the center identification sign, approved by
Building and Planning Departments. He stated he could not
respond to the latter.
Mr. Harriman stated he was unaware of the desire to eliminate
the use of can signs. He then stated that can signs were
chosen for the center because of the architecture of the
building, and there is insufficient room for channel letters.
Discussion ensued on can signs, channel letters and foam
letters; height of signs; signs being designed for compati-
bility with the architecture of the building.
Commissioner Wilsey stated with the architecture of this
particular product we might well look at staying with can
signs. Do bare in mind, particularly on a retail level, that
we are leaning to the individual channel letters.
Commissioner Brinley stated she concurs with Commissioner
Wilsey.
Discussion ensued on type of material - -24 gauge paint lock
sheet metal; use of aluminum rather than sheet metal;
maintenance problems; number of tenant signs across front of
each building and consistency of colors between the sign copy
and roofing material; height of wall signs; Sign Type 3 on
front windows and entry doors - -over signage.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER WILSEY TO APPROVE THE MASTER UNIFORM
SIGN PROGRAM FOR COLLIER BUSINESS PARK AT 18630 COLLIER AVENUE
BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO THE 8 CONDITIONS OF
APPROVAL AS PRESENTED BY STAFF, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER
SELLEVOLD.
Approved 4 -1 (Commissioner Gilenson voting no)
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Brinley
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Sellevold
Nothing to report.
Minutes of Planning Commission
February 19, 1992
Page 3
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Wilsey
Nothing to report.
Chairman Saathoff
Nothing to report.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 7:29 p.m., motion by Commissioner Brinley,
second by Commissioner Sellevold.
Approved 5 -0
Apr ved,
�l
Bill Saathoff,
Chairman
Respectfully submitted,
Linda Grin staff,
Planning Commission
Secretary
MINUTES
HELD ON THE
OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
4TH DAY OF
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
ISIe\ 1;190�&3e3:
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Brinley.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Brinley, Sellevold, Wilsey and
Saathoff
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: None
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, City Planner
Christen, Assistant Planner Villa, and Engineering Manager
O'Donnell.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve Minutes of February 19,
1992, as submitted, second by Commissioner Gilenson.
Approved 5 -0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no requests to speak, Chairman Saathoff closed the
PUBLIC COMMENTS Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Conditional Use Permit 91 -5 - California Skydive (Skylark
Airport, Incorporated), Assistant Planner Villa presented a
request to establish a commercial parachute school and
skydiving center, and to allow the placement of temporary
coach trailers within the floodplain area. The proposed
office trailers and requested operations will be conducted on
the southeast portion of the site totaling 18.76 acres,
located at Skylark Airport (20701 Cereal Street) . The project
as proposed is Categorically Exempt from the requirements of
the California Environmental Quality Act based on Section
15311, Class 11.
Chairman Saathoff opened the public hearing at 7:05 p.m.,
asking for those wishing to speak in favor.
Mr. Brogdon, President of Skydive California and Director of
the Airport, 24777 Agusta Drive, Moreno Valley, commented on
skydiving /air sports being a natural resource for the
community; revenue generated and improving the community's
image through positive media coverage. He then submitted
letters of support from the following businesses:
Don Jose Restaurant;
Herman De Jong;
Lake Elsinore Lock and Key;
Teti's Restaurant;
Manny's Grill;
Sizzler Restaurant;
McDonalds Restaurant
Chairman Saathoff asked Mr. Brogdon if the Conditions of
Approval placed on the proposal were reviewed and if there
were any concerns. Mr. Brogdon responded in the negative.
Chairman Saathoff asked for anyone else wishing to address the
Commission, in favor or opposition. Receiving no response,
the public hearing was closed at 7:12 p.m.
Commissioner Sellevold stated he believes this will be good
for the city and likes the layout. He then inquired about
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 4, 1992
Page 2
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 91 -5 CONTINUED
signage. Mr. Brogdon stated two signs will be erected - -one at
Cereal Street from Corydon Road and one on the trailer that is
parallel with Cereal Street.
Commissioner Wilsey stated he has been a supporter of Skylark
Airport for many years. He then commented on the jump- center
being internationally know prior to the flooding in early
1980; Airport Study prepared by CH2 Hill and the establishment
of an airport committee in the 80's, and revenue generated.
Commissioner Brinley commented on revenue generated for local
businesses. She then inquired whether the restroom facilities
would be hooked -up to septic. Mr. Brogdon responded there is
a holding tank underneath - -water is pumped in for the portable
restrooms, and pumped -out twice a week by Right -Way Disposal.
Commissioner Gilenson stated he has no problem with the
Conditional Use Permit and looks forward to the time when a
permanent facility will be in place - -not only for the jumping
but the airport as well. Familiar with the study that was
done and knows the revenue that can be generated.
Chairman Saathoff inquired whether the application came from
both Skylark Airport Incorporated and Skydive California.
Assistant Planner Villa responded in the affirmative.
Chairman Saathoff then commented on the skirting for trailers
and type of material; parking area - -is this DG, concerned with
dust control; providing copy of the contract for portable
restroom servicing; landscape plan.
There being no further discussion at the table, Chairman
Saathoff called for a motion.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY TO APPROVE CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT 91 -5 BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO THE 13
CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT AND THE
FOLLOWING AMENDMENTS:
Condition No. 12.a.: Dust control measures for the
parking surface shall be subject to
the approval of the Community
Development Manager.
Condition No. 12.b.: The City shall receive a copy of the
service contract indicating that the
portable restrooms will in fact be
serviced twice a week.
Second by Commissioner Gilenson.
Approved 5 -0
BUSINESS ITEMS
NONE
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 4, 1992
Page 3
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Brinley
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Sellevold
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Wilsey
Commented on the Freeway off -ramp at Central Avenue.
Engineering Manager O'Donnell state
with Cal- Trans; as you know, this is
jurisdiction. We will talk to them
Chairman Saathoff
Nothing to report.
d they have been communicating
a State Highway and they have
again and see what we can do.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 7:25 p.m., motion by Commissioner Gilenson,
second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5 -0
A ed,
Bill aathoff,
Chairman
Respectfully submitted,
in Grin staff,
Planning Commission
Secretary
iuM��I�LY�9
HELD ON THE
OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
18TH DAY OF
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
MARCH 1992
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Sellevold.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Brinley, Sellevold and Saathoff
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: Wilsey
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, City Planner
Christen, Assistant Planner Villa, and Engineering Manager
O'Donnell.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Gilenson to approve Minutes of March 4,
1992, as submitted, second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4 -0.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no requests to speak, Chairman Saathoff closed the
PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Conditional Use Permit 91 -6 - New Hope Baptist Church
(Glendora CC Investor) - Assistant Planner Villa presented a
request to allow New Hope Baptist Church to operate religious
services at 565 Chaney Street, Units G and H, within the Warm
Springs Business Park. He further stated that the church
would use approximately 2,775 square feet of the facility for
general church worship including worship and praise services,
Sunday School, meetings, youth fellowship activities and bible
study. The church related operations will be conducted on
weekends and after regular business hours.
Chairman Saathoff opened the public hearing at 7:04 p.m.,
asking for anyone wishing to speak on the subject.
Mr. Larry Carter, 34778 Hickory Lane, Lake Elsinore, stated
that their church needs a larger facility and their plans are
to conduct services on the weekends and after business hours.
He further stated that the applicants are aware of the need
not to impact the current tenants in the proposed facility and
since the main activities are on the weekends and after
business hours this should not create any impact either in
regard to business operations or the traffic impact. Mr.
Carter further stated that this facility would be in use as a
temporary measure only until the congregation could build its
own facility in approximately two years.
Chairman Saathoff asked for anyone else wishing to address the
Commission, in favor or opposition. Receiving no response,
the public hearing was closed at 7:07 p.m.
Commissioner Gilenson stated he has been against churches
applying for Conditional Use Permits in this area only because
of possible health and safety concerns, but due to City
Council's direction he would not try to block the project. He
then commented on the following:
• Condition No. 1, expiration of Conditional Use Permit- -
suggested the two years be changed to one year with two
one year extensions.
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 18, 1992
Page 2
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 91 -6 CONTINUED
• Condition No. 3, suggested amendment to read: "Seating
shall be limited and controlled by the Fire Marshal of
the City of Lake Elsinore ".
• Condition No. 7, after the word "shall" add the word
"be".
• Requested that a condition be added to address excess
noise, toxic odors and chemicals.
Chairman Saathoff suggested a condition be added that the
owner of the facility provide a letter, to be placed in the
case file, stating that the adjoining units would not be
rented to any business which might produce toxic odors or
excessive noise. Commissioner Gilenson concurred.
Commissioner Brinley inquired about bible school during the
summer. Mr. Carter responded that there would be no bible
school.
Chairman Saathoff clarified the hours of operation and asked
the applicant if the heating and air conditioning had been
addressed. Mr. Carter stated that both the heating and air
conditioning had been brought up to the needs of the building
and its uses. Mr. Saathoff further stated that he agreed with
the suggested changes to the conditions and asked Mr. Carter
if he had any concerns in regard to the changes.
Mr. Carter stated he had no problem with the changes and
introduced Mr. Mike Pathos, Westmoore Commercial Brokerage,
owner's representative.
Mr. Mike Pathos, acting on behalf of the applicant and the
landlord, stated that the owner would have no problem
providing a letter indicating that the surrounding buildings
would not be rented to any business which had toxic
chemicals /odors or excessive noise. He further stated that it
would not be in the best interests of the owner to place
manufacturing in the buildings in question, since they have
been designed for office use.
There being no further discussion at the table, Chairman
Saathoff called for a motion.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON TO ADOPT NEGATIVE DECLARATION
92 -2 AND APPROVE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 91 -6 BASED ON THE
FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN
THE STAFF REPORT WITH THE FOLLOWING AMENDMENTS:
Condition No. 1: The Conditional Use Permit shall
expire one (1) year from the date of
approval. The Community Development
Manager may issue two (2) one (1)
year extension if the applicant
demonstrates that a new facility is
progressing towards development. If
Use has not commenced within one (1)
year of the date of this approval,
then the approvals as indicated by
this Use Permit shall be expired and
require resubmittal.
Condition No. 3: Seating shall be limited and
controlled by the Fire Marshal of
the City of Lake Elsinore.
Minutes of Planning Commission
March 18, 1992
Page 3
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 91 -6 CONTINUED
Condition No. 7: Any violation or non - compliance with
the Conditions of Approval shall be
cause for the revocation of this
Conditional Use Permit.
Condition No. 10: Applicant is required to provide a
letter from the owner that states
that the owner will not lease
buildings A through F, I and J, to
any businesses wherein there are any
caustic chemicals, vapors or sound
intrusion which would affect the
building which the church occupies.
Second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4 -0.
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Brinley
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Sellevold
Nothing to report.
Chairman Saathoff
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Wilsey
Absent
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 7:21 p.m. , motion by Commissioner Gilenson,
second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 4 -0
r;�l ed,
athoff,
Chairman
s ectfuul /ly sub itted,
Adria Bryning, De ty �J
City Clerk ((&I
MINUTES
HELD ON THE
OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
1ST DAY OF
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
APRIL 1992
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Wilsey.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Brinley, Sellevold, Wilsey and
Saathoff
Also present were City Planner Christen, Assistant Planner Villa,
and Engineering Manager O'Donnell.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve Minutes of March 18,
1992, as submitted, second by Commissioner Sellevold.
Approved 4 -0 (Commissioner Wilsey abstaining)
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no requests to speak, Chairman Saathoff closed the
PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Conditional Use Permit 92 -1 - Arnold Schlevniger (Larry
Eichandy) - A request to establish an outdoor sales stand for
the sale of strawberries in the General Commercial District,
located at the southeast corner of Railroad Canyon Road and
Grape Street.
Chairman Saathoff stated the applicant has requested this item
be withdrawn from the Agenda and called for a motion.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY TO WITHDRAW CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT 92 -1 FROM THE AGENDA, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON.
Approved 5 -0
2. Zone Code Amendment 92 -1 - City of Lake Elsinore - City
Planner Christen presented a proposal to amend Section 17.11
of the Lake Elsinore Municipal Code and establishing a Central
Business Overlay District, and provide Design Standards. The
District is bounded to the north by I -15, to the south by the
Lake edge, the east by the alley which parallels Main Street,
and to the west by Spring Street, and includes a portion of
Graham Avenue to Kellogg; the posted map entitled "Central
Business District Downtown Land Use Study" outlines the area
boundaries.
Environmental Impact Report (SCH No. 88020114) was prepared
and adopted on November 27, 1990, for the General Plan and
addresses environmental impacts; therefore, pursuant to
Section 15182 of the California Environmental Quality Act this
project is exempt from further environmental review.
Chairman Saathoff opened the public hearing at 7:07 p.m.,
asking for anyone wishing to speak in favor or opposition.
Receiving no response, the public hearing was closed at 7:08
p.m.
Chairman Saathoff asked Commissioner Brinley start the
discussion as she has served on this Committee for some time.
Minutes of Planning Commission
April 1, 1992
Page 2
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 92 -1 CONTINUED
Commissioner Brinley stated this amendment covers issues which
have needed addressing for a long time, such as: the 1920 era
design theme -- tradition that we are trying to follow, control
and flexibility for Downtown businesses.
Commissioner Gilenson asked if the Cal Poly Urban Design Study
of 1982 is the one being revised. Mr. Christen stated his
understanding is, this has always been the basis for the
Downtown area, but it is not being revised.
Commissioner Gilenson then commented on Section 17.11.020,
incorporation of the Design Standards - -prior to voting on it
should have the whole package. Section 17.11.030, density of
the same or similar use, this should not be done as it
limits /restricts the free enterprise system.
Commissioner Brinley stated the intent was not to restrict
businesses. Each case, project or business would be taken on
its own basis and merit. The flexibility is there.
Considerable discussion ensued on the intent of Section
17.11.030 and the need to clarify, and the second sentence
alluding to the Zoning Ordinance which states uses in a
specific area and does not specify numbers.
Commissioner Wilsey expressed concern with the second sentence
in Section 17.11.030 and suggested that all comments,
questions or clarification be made and the document be sent
back to staff (City Attorney) for re -work. Commissioner
Gilenson suggested the amendment come back as a total package.
The following sections were discussed and comments made as
follows:
Section 17.11.020 Central Business District Defined.
Amendment to come back before the Commission with the Revised
Design Standards as a total package.
Section 17.11.030 Permitted Uses:
Suggested the second sentence be changed to: No new or changed
use shall be permitted in this District without the specific
prior approval as to both type and location by the Planning
Commission.
Clarify the intent of the ordinance - -allow the Design Review
Committee to approve new or changed uses in the underlying
zone, approve variances in setbacks, approve Conditional Use
Permits? If use deviates from underlying zoning then it must
be reviewed by the Design Review Committee. A change in
underlying zoning should come to Planning Commission. Delete
all language after the first sentence.
Section 17.11.050 Design Review Committee
Suggested the last sentence be changed to: The City Council
shall retain the right to remove and replace committee members
for cause, notwithstanding the terms set out herein.
This not being a committee anymore, it is a body having the
same power as Planning Commission. Establish criteria that
committee member must be a resident or have a business within
the City. Committee members consisting of a representative
from Downtown Businesses, a Planning Commissioner, private citizen,
Minutes of Planning Commission
April 1, 1992
Page 3
ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 92 -1 CONTINUED
business representatives outside the district.
Section 17.11.060 Proiect Review
This section should define responsibilities of this Committee
and the Commission with regards new construction, conditional
use permits, variance for setbacks, etc. Clarify steps for
applicant and staff - -list of type of action and what body(s)
they go before.
Name of the committee, refers to design only, implication is
they are interested only in design.
Subsection C, entire section needs clarification.
Subsection E, intent of this section -- renovate structure
whether use is changed or not, suggested deletion of the
language "conduct a new or changed use or ".
Enforcement mechanism and penalty for violation needs to be
added, reference to Subsection C.3 and E.
Section 17.11.070 Compliance with Standards
Subsection A, Nuisance Abatement procedure - -check with City
Attorney, provided a provision for penalty and enforcement is
included in the section there is another way to enforce and
penalize without having to go through Nuisance Abatement.
Subsection B, can not selectively enforce; cost of modifi-
cation and compliance should be increased for latitude.
Subsection C, financial hardship, text for guidelines on
hardship should be added.
There being no further discussion, Chairman Saathoff called
for a motion.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON TO CONTINUE ZONE CODE
AMENDMENT 92 -1, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER WILSEY.
Chairman Saathoff asked for further discussion. Commissioner
Wilsey asked if this has to be continued date specific.
COMMISSIONER GILENSON AMENDED HIS MOTION TO CONTINUE ZONE CODE
AMENDMENT 91 -2 FOR 90 DAYS, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER WILSEY.
Approved 5 -0
BUSINESS ITEMS
3. Single - Family Residence - 17889 Benedict Avenue - Brenda J.
Sailer - Assistant Planner Villa presented a request for
Minor Design Review of a 2,723 square foot, two story,
dwelling unit with a 1,120 square foot tuck -under garage on
approximately 5,920 square foot lot.
Chairman Saathoff asked if there was anyone representing the
applicant and if there were any concerns.
Mr. Richard Sailer stated they have proposed a wrought iron
fence completely around the property, and the retaining wall
permits have been released. No problem with the conditions.
Minutes of Planning Commission
April 1, 1992
Page 4
SINGLE - FAMILY RESIDENCE - 17889 BENEDICT AVENUE CONTINUED
Discussion was held on the distance of retaining wall from
structure and reason for wrought iron - -for safety purposes;
distance of retaining wall from property line, and the ten -
foot retaining wall not addressed in the conditions.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY TO APPROVE SINGLE - FAMILY
RESIDENCE AT 17889 BENEDICT AVENUE BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND
SUBJECT TO THE 25 CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF
REPORT WITH THE FOLLOWING AMENDMENT:
Condition No. 12. The proposed retaining wall will be
constructed on the north property line
and it will be ten -feet (101) high from
the lowest grade. On the highest grade,
the wall will only be approximately six -
inches (611). A thirty- six -inch (3611)
high wrought iron fence extension shall
be 'constructed on top of the retaining
wall situated on the north property line.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON.
Approved 5 -0
4. Single - Family Residence - 29390 Hague Street - Daniel A.
Wishard - Assistant Planner Villa presented a request for
Minor Design Review of a 1,480 square foot, two - story, single -
family dwelling unit with an attached two car garage that
encompasses approximately 412 square feet in area.
Chairman Saathoff asked if there was anyone representing the
applicant and if there were any concerns.
Mr. Daniel Wishard stated he was in agreement with staff
recommendation.
A brief discussion was held on whether grading plans are
submitted for single - family dwellings, and indication of the
amount of grading on said plans, condition number 18.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER WILSEY TO APPROVE SINGLE - FAMILY
RESIDENCE AT 29390 HAGUE STREET BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND
SUBJECT TO THE 22 CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF
REPORT, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY.
Approved 5 -0
INFORMATIONAL
5. Formation of Focus Group for Murdock Alberhill Ranch Specific
Plan Amendment and Development Agreement - City Planner
Christen explained the objective of forming Focus Groups for
specific projects.
Commissioners Gilenson and Sellevold were appointed to serve
on this committee.
PLANNING DEPARTMENTIS COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
I . /I d.. .
Minutes of Planning Commission
April 1, 1992
Page 5
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Brinley
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Sellevold
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Wilsey
Nothing to report.
Chairman Saathoff
Nothing to report.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 8:15 p.m., motion by Commissioner Brinley,
second by Commissioner Gilenson.
Approved 5 -0
ppro ed,
Bill Saathoff,
Chairman
Respectfully submitted,,
Yinda Grin staff
Secretary
MINUTES OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING CC
APRIL 15, 1992
THE REGULAR MEETING WAS CALLED DUE TO LACK OF AGENDA ITEMS.
Respectfully s4bmitted,
*Linda Grin staff
Planning Commission
Secretary
MINUTES OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING (
MAY 6, 1992
THE REGULAR MEETING WAS CALLED DUE TO LACK OF AGENDA ITEMS.
Respectfully s mitt_e /d,
in Grin staff
Planning Commission
Secretary
MINUTES OF
HELD ON THE
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
20TH DAY OF
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Brinley.
ROLL CALL:
MAY 1992
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Brinley and Sellevold
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: Wilsey and Saathoff
Also present were City Planner Christen, Associate Planner DeGange,
Assistant Planner Villa, and Engineering Manager O'Donnell.
Being as Chairman Saathoff was absent, Vice Chairman Gilenson
conducted the meeting.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve Minutes of April 1, 1992,
as submitted, second by Commissioner Sellevold.
Approved 3 -0
Minutes of April 15 and May 6, 1992, were ordered received and
filed.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no requests to speak, Vice Chairman Gilenson closed the
PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
40- .38{40:044\:7A 0k, Ce'?
1. Conditional Use Permit 92 -2 - Mark Piascik - Associate Planner
DeGange presented a request to convert a residential structure
to a commercial structure. The project is located at 607 West
Graham Avenue between Kellogg and Lindsay Streets. This
project has been determined to be a Class 1 Categorical Ex-
emption pursuant to the California Environmental Quality Act.
Vice Chairman Gilenson asked for written communication. The
Secretary responded no written communication received. He
then opened the public hearing at 7:07 p.m., asking for those
wishing to speak in favor.
Mark Piascik stated he is interested in opening an interior
design center; it will be used like a residence and wants to
maintain the residential look of the structure. Perspective
customers will be brought to this location to show them how
our products might look in their home. He stated he was in
agreement with the parking and other requirements listed in
the report.
Vice Chairman Gilenson asked for anyone else wishing to speak
in favor. Receiving no response, he asked for opposition.
Hearing none, the public hearing was closed at 7:08 p.m.
Commissioner Brinley commented on loading and unloading of
merchandise; the amount of off - street parking, and; whether
permits were pulled for the addition.
Mr. Piascik stated they have another store in the Stater
Brothers Shopping Center where the stock will be kept. This
store will be like a showroom.
Associate Planner DeGange stated parking is available: two
spaces in front, four spaces provided on -site, side street
parking on Lowell and Lindsay Streets. For the addition, the
applicant would have meet Code requirements.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 20, 1992
Page 2
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 92 -2 CONTINUED
Mr. Piascik stated that permits were pulled for the addition,
but not finished. In discussion with the Building Department
if the Conditional Use Permit is approved, they will renew the
permit.
Commissioner Sellevold commented on the number of employees
and employee parking. Inquired whether there are any plans
for the existing garage in the rear, and if this could be used
for employee parking.
Mr. Piascik stated there should only be one salesperson at the
location at a time. There are no plans for the garage, at
this time, and there would not be a problem with employees
parking in the garage.
Commissioner Sellevold asked if the exterior of the structure
was to be re- stuccoed, and if the block walls were going to
match, or be slumpstone. Mr. Piascik stated that he would
like to recolor -coat, and a decision on the block walls has
not been made, would like to discuss with staff.
Mr. Larry Erwin, partner, 29281 Swan Avenue, stated they would
like to stucco the block walls to match the building. Com-
missioner Sellevold stated that he would like this added as a
condition.
Vice Chairman Gilenson requested the following corrections to
the Staff Report:
Page 1, last paragraph, indicates minutes attached - -were
not attached -- either attach or delete.
Page 2, Special Project Concern #2 and #3, condition
numbers not listed.
Vice Chairman Gilenson inquired whether the project is
currently on sewer or septic, if not would like added as a
condition. He then stated he would like a condition added
requiring the outside addition either be completed or removed
prior to business license issuance.
Discussion ensued on the addition and whether this was
addressed in condition number 2 and 3. Vice Chairman Gilenson
stated that he wanted the addition addressed specifically.
Vice Chairman Gilenson asked if anyone would be residing at
this location, and what control the City has over this. Mr.
Piascik responded that no one would be residing at the
location. Associate Planner DeGange stated that if the
structure is to be used for commercial purposes it is against
City Ordinance to have anyone residing there.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY TO APPROVE CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT 92 -2 BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO THE 7
CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT WITH THE
FOLLOWING AMENDMENTS:
Condition No. 6: A six -foot high block wall stuccoed on
both sides shall be constructed along the
rear and side property lines to match the
building where drive aisles and parking
areas abut adjoining property. A fencing
plan shall be submitted to the Building
Division for issuance of building permits
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 20, 1992
Page 3
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 92 -2 CONTINUED
and the review of the Community
Development Manager or his designee.
Condition No. 8: The outside addition either be completed
or removed prior to business license
issuance.
Condition No. 9: The project shall connect to sewer and
meet all requirements of the Elsinore
Valley Municipal Water District (EVMWD) .
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
Approved 3 -0
2. Tentative Parcel Map 27483; Conditional Use Permit 92 -3;
Residential Project 92 -1 - Mazen Issa (Samir Alashqar) -
Assistant Planner Villa presented a request to divide the air
space of one parcel into dual ownership to create two
condominium units; A Conditional Use Permit as required by
Section 17.24.030, and Design Review for the construction of
a 2,952 square foot residential condominium building. The
site is located at 316 Lindsay Street between Pottery and
Sumner Avenues. It has been determined that the request is
exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act pursuant
to Section 15315, Class 15 (Minor Land Division).
Vice Chairman Gilenson asked for written communication. The
Secretary responded no written communication received. He
then opened the public hearing at 7:21 p.m., asking for those
wishing to speak in favor.
Mr. Nader Qoborsi, Civil Engineer, stated they started with a
duplex. We asked the Planning Department what they thought of
a condominium conversion, and we received a positive response
to that question and consequently we went ahead and filed the
map. The only concern I understand from the Planning Depart-
ment is the problems of the CC & R's. The duplex or apartment
doesn't have CC & R's as there is nothing to enforce. To
enforce the CC & R's is not the problem we can add to them
whatever condition the Planning Department is comfortable
with.
Mr. Qoborsi stated the architect and owner is open for any
suggestion for change of design or material. They are willing
to comply with whatever recommendation the City is asking for
without any restriction. I believe that the condominium
project should not be dealt with any differently than a
single - family home - -they are almost the same.
Vice Chairman Gilenson asked for anyone else wishing to speak
in favor. Receiving no response, he asked for opposition.
Hearing none, the public hearing was closed at 7:25 p.m.
Commissioner Sellevold stated that CC & R's are hard to
enforce. He then commented on problems associated with two
property owners. With an apartment duplex there would only be
one owner and more control on exterior /interior maintenance.
Commissioner Brinley stated that she concurs with Commissioner
Sellevold, and agrees with staff's findings.
Vice Chairman Gilenson asked staff, there is a subdivision map
whereby there is airspace dividing the two projects or two
condominiums, fifteen years from now owner of condominium #2
decides to tear down his half of the condominium and put up an
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 20, 1992
Page 4
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 27483• CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT _92 -3;
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 92 -1 CONTINUED
A- frame, would that be legal? If so, concerned with
substandard lot size.
Assistant Planner Villa responded that it may very well happen
if they do decide to dissolve the CC & R's before that.
Vice Chairman Gilenson then commented as follows:
• Does not want the vinyl siding.
• Not against the asphalt shingle if three dimensional
Presidential Series or similar type quality is used.
• Does not agree with the tandem parking, believes it
creates fire, safety and health hazards.
• Noise, due to this area being totally residential, would
not approve the 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., would not want
construction to start until 8:00 a.m., and specifically
enunciating no work on Sunday.
• If approved as an apartment duplex, would want condition
number 44 added, comply with all conditions of the County
Fire Department.
• Condition number 41, does staff have any idea what the
appropriate bonds are - -what they would run?
Engineering Manager O'Donnell responded it would be
calculated by the Engineer's estimate, when the plans
come in for approval -- $7,000 - $10,000.
Vice Chairman Gilenson reiterated that he would be against the
dual ownership theory for the reasons stated; would approve
the apartment duplex with the amendments to the conditions.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY TO DENY TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP
27483; CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 92 -3; RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 92 -1
(CONDOMINIUM) BASED ON THE FINDINGS LISTED IN THE STAFF
REPORT, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
APPROVED 3 -0
Vice Chairman Gilenson asked staff if it would be appropriate
to discuss the apartment duplex, at this time. Assistant
Planner Villa responded in the affirmative, if the applicant
wishes to go forward with the project, at this point.
Vice Chairman Gilenson asked for the applicant's desire. Mr.
Qoborsi stated that the duplex doesn't need public hearing,
the zoning allows and indicated he was not interested in
pursuing. Assistant Planner Villa informed Mr. Qoborsi that
Design Review is approved by the Planning Commission.
3. Conditional Use Permit 92 -4 - Keith R. Liston (Gene R. Bouch)
- Vice Chairman Gilenson stated the applicant has requested
this item be continued to June 3, 1992, and called for a
motion.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY TO CONTINUE CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT 92 -4 TO THE MEETING OF JUNE 3, 1992, SECOND BY
COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
Approved 3 -0
Minutes of Planning Commission
Page�?�,t 1992 �r I� ..l �,i .r
4. Conditional Use Permit 92 -5 - Jack Malki (Bruce W. Wade) -
Vice Chairman Gilenson referred to the letter dated May 15,
1992, from Mr. Malki requesting this item be withdrawn from
the Agenda.
MOTI,ON BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY TO WITHDRAW CONDITIONAL USE
PERMI% 92 -5' FROM !TUE AGENDA, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
Approved 3-0
BUSINESS ITEMS
5. Extension of Time for R 91 -3 - Rodney Pence (ESI Builders) -
Assistant Planner Villa presented a request to consider a
twelve month extension of time for approved Residential
Project 91 -3, located. at 110 and 112 Lewis Street between
Graham Avenue and Heald Avenue.
Vice Chairman Gilenson asked if there was anyone representing
the applicant.. Receiving no response, he asked for discussion
at the table.
Commissioners Brinley and Sellevold stated they had no problem
with the extension.
Vice Chairman Gilenson commented on the roofing material and
the use of asphalt shingle if three dimensional Presidential
Series or similar type quality is use. Condition number 10,
noise - -due to this area being totally residential change the
7:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m., and no work on Sunday.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY TO APPROVE A TWELVE MONTH
EXTENSION OF TIME FOR RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 91 -3 BASED ON THE
FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO THE 45 CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED
IN THE STAFF ,REPORT WITH THE FOLLOWING AMENDMENTS:
Condition No. 7: Applicant shall use roofing materials
with a minimum of Class "B" fire rating.
If asphalt roofing material is used on
sloped roofs it shall be of the quality
of Presidential Shake three dimensional
shingles. Roofing material to be used
shall be subject to the approval of the
Community Development Manager or
designee, prior to issuance of building
permits.
Condition No. 10: Applicant shall comply with the City's
Noise Ordinance. Construction activity
shall be limited to the hours of 8 a.m.
to 5 p.m. Monday through Saturday and no
work on Sunday, to protect adjacent
occupants from unreasonable noise and
glare associated with construction.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
Approved 3 -0
6. Models for Tract 20705 - Friedman Homes, Inc. - Associate
Planner DeGange presented a request for Minor Design Review of
three models for Tract 20705 (Canyon Creek Specific Plan
Area), near the intersection of Summerhill Drive and Railroad
Canyon Road off of Interstate 15.
Vice Chairman Gilenson asked if there was anyone representing
the applicant.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 20, 1992
Page 6
MODELS FOR TRACT 20705 CONTINUED
Mr. Mike Bird, representing Friedman Homes, gave a brief
history on the proposal. He stated that he agrees with the
concerns raised by staff and believes the amendments will be
very helpful to the project. He then questioned the following
conditions:
Condition No. 16, Friedman Homes will be
constructing roughly a million dollars worth
of parks, so we hope the parks would be in
lieu of fees.
Condition No. 23, all rear and side yards that
exist in the right -of -way will be wrought iron
or a combination thereof. We were planning to
do a captured cedar and redwood on all side
yards.
Condition No. 30, regarding scheduling and
construction of the parks, we have worked out
an agreement that was agreeable with Friedman
and hopefully the City, as well, reference
letter of May 19, 1992. Construction of the
soccer park, at the main entrance of the
tract, in conjunction with the models and come
on line with the restrooms at the 200th house;
the baseball park at 300th unit and all other
parks at the 400th or 450th unit.
Mr. Bird then stated that he would answer any questions that
may arise.
Commissioner Sellevold commented on the soccer field being up
and running and no restroom facilities -- inquired about time
line for the 200th home and the possibility of temporary
restroom facilities.
Mr. Bird stated he believes this to be within a 12 month
period. As an update for the Commission, there are 111 units
in this tract and we have 114 lots in escrow to Century Homes
(Tract 20704). In the second half of Tract 20705 we are
trying to bring on line another 125 units. Could propose that
Friedman pay for the rental and servicing of temporary
facilities when the park is in use.
Vice Chairman Gilenson stated that due to visibility from the
freeway would not want temporary restroom facilities. If
anything, would want the restroom facilities coming on line
with the models.
Discussion ensued on time line for restroom facilities and
costs; restroom facilities coming on line with construction of
100 homes; screening of temporary restroom facilities with
lattice and providing additional maintenance.
Commissioner Brinley stated her concern was on the park, which
has been addressed. Believes the embellishments requested by
staff will provide enhancement to the project.
Vice Chairman Gilenson requested the following corrections to
the Staff Report, Page 2, Special Project Concerns, #1 and #3
fill in condition numbers. He then commented on the following
conditions:
Condition 14, would like to add Planning Commission
approval.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 20, 1992
Page 7
MODELS FOR TRACT 20705 CONTINUED
• Condition 21.b., delete 1115 gallon in size ".
• Condition 23, agrees with the applicant on fencing.
• Condition 30, would like the applicant's letter dated May
19, 1992 with the correction to #2 added to this
condition.
• Condition 32, delete the word "shall ".
• Referred to the last page of the Staff Report (Map),
would like to see an additional road put in, Lot 111. So
that there is more than one ingress /egress. Would like
this added to the conditions.
Engineering Manager O'Donnell responded that he does not know
if this can be designed and put in - -it has already been graded
and it might not work engineering wise.
Mr. Bird stated that this would not work engineering wise - -the
grade is about 30 -40 foot straight up and down. We do have
secondary access by Lot 1, exiting on Franklin Street.
Vice Chairman Gilenson stated that this still does not give
any ingress /egress within the project. Mr. Bird reiterated
his statement on the topography.
Engineering Manager O'Donnell stated the map meets standards
and has been approved. Does not know what grounds we have to
change the map.
Vice Chairman Gilenson asked staff to address the issues the
applicant raised on conditions 16 and 23.
Associate Planner DeGange stated that condition number 16 can
be altered to say or meet the requirements through dedication
of park, which they have done, providing parks on: Lot C,
baseball field; Lot F, soccer field; Lot E, adult park; Lot F
& G, active parks, and Lot B, fire station. Condition number
23, is a Code requirement for all residential developments
over 4 units with a provision that Planning Commission may
alter.
Discussion ensued on fencing requirements, exterior lots
visible from the right -of -way being decorative block and
interior lots using wood fencing.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD TO APPROVE MODELS FOR TRACT
20705 BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO THE 32 CONDITIONS
OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT WITH THE FOLLOWING
AMENDMENTS:
Condition No. 14: All signage shall be by City Permit
subject to Planning Commission approval.
Condition No. 16: Prior to the issuance of building
permits, applicant shall pay park -in -lieu
fees in effect at the time of building
permit issuance, or meet the requirements
through dedication of parks: Lot C,
baseball field; Lot F, soccer field; Lot
E, adult park; Lot F & G, active parks.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 20, 1992
Page 8
MODELS FOR TRACT 20705 CONTINUED
Condition No. 21b: Applicant shall plant street trees,
selected from the City's Street Tree
List, a maximum of thirty feet (30')
apart and twenty -four inch (24 ") box.
Condition No. 23: A six foot (61) high masonry or
decorative block wall shall be
constructed along the side and rear
property lines where fencing is adjacent
to public right -of -ways, tract perimeter,
and shall conform to Section 17.14.080
(Fences and Walls) . On interior lot
lines wood fencing may be used, and
subject to the approval of the Community
Development Manager or designee, prior to
issuance of building permit.
Condition No. 30: Lot "C" of Tract 20704 (Soccer Park) and
Lot "F" of Tract 20705 (Baseball Park)
shall be completed prior to final
releases of the models for this project.
Construction schedule of the parks within
Tract 20704 and 20705 shall be:
1. Begin construction of the Soccer
Park (Lot C, Tract 20704)
irrigation, landscaping, parking
lot, walkways, bleachers and other
park equipment, at the completion of
the construction of models in Tract
20705.
Restroom facilities at the Soccer
Park - Provide concealed temporary
restroom facilities, which shall be
properly maintained, up until the
100th unit. At the 100th home the
restroom facility shall come on line
with all of the amenities.
3. Construct the complete Baseball Park
(Lot A, Tract 20705) before the
Certificate of Occupancy of the
300th house in Tracts 20704/20705.
4. Construct the River Park (Lots F &
G, Tract 20704) and the Adult Park
(Lot A, Tract 20704) before the
Certificate of Occupancy of the
450th house in Tracts 20704/20705.
Condition No. 32: A model complex plan detailing parking
and circulation shall be submitted to the
Engineering and Planning Departments for
review and approval.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY.
Approved 3 -0
PLANNING DEPARTMENTIS COMMENTS
City Planner Christen informed the Commission that the TMC North
Peak project is going back to LAFCO on May 28th. The Development
Agreement will be coming forward in the near future, and an in-
house meeting has been scheduled for next week.
Minutes of Planning Commission
May 20, 1992
Page 9
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS CONTINUED
Vice Chairman Gilenson asked if this meeting was for the Study
Group. Mr. Christen responded it is just the department heads to
see where they stand, at this point.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Brinley
Yesterday's Dream on Lakeshore, a sign is being painted on the
wall, inquired whether a permit had been issued.
Associate Planner DeGange stated he was going suggest that Code
Enforcement notify the owner and inform them that they need a sign
permit.
Commissioner Sellevold
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Gilenson
Inquired about the change in color, signage and the flags on top of
the buildings at both Del Taco locations (Lakeshore and Mission
Trail), whether this was approved by anyone or if this was a
unilateral decision.
Associate Planner DeGange responded there is very little that we
can do in terms of color. A change of face permit is necessary for
the signage, and the flags require a temporary permit.
Vice Chairman Gilenson stated that he would like this referred to
Code Enforcement.
Commissioner Wilsey
Absent
Chairman Saathoff
Absent
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 8:07 p.m., motion by Commissioner Brinley,
second by Commissioner Sellevold.
Approved 3 -0
.. -
Re ectfully Submitted,
inda Gri dstaff
Secretary
MINUTES OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE 3RD DAY OF JUNE 1992
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Brinley.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Brinley, Sellevold, Wilsey
and Saathoff
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: None
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, City Planner
Christen, Associate Planner DeGange, Assistant Planner Villa, and
Engineering Manager O'Donnell.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve Minutes of May 20, 1992
as submitted, second by Commissioner Sellevold.
Approved 3 -0 (Commissioners Wilsey and Saathoff abstaining)
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman Saathoff stated he has received several requests to speak
on Residential Project 89 -11 Revision No. 3, and asked that the
persons wishing to speak on this proposal wait until the item comes
up on the agenda, if agreeable with the Commission. Commission
concurred.
Mr. Dick Knapp, 29690 Dwan Drive, suggested the following:
1) Planning Commission follow the City Council's format with
regard to the agenda, number the item and pages.
2) Sewer, water and utilities be required before building permits
are issued, referring to developments that are not being
completed, referenced a home on La Shell and a triplex on
Riverside and Robertson. Also, would like to bring to your
attention that a fire hydrant is not within 300 -feet of these
developments. Does not believe this is followed -up as far as
the Planning Department is concerned.
There being no further requests to speak, Chairman Saathoff closed
the PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Conditional Use Permit 92 -4 - Keith R. Liston (Gene R. Bouch)-
Continued from May 20, 1992 - Chairman Saathoff stated that
the applicant has requested this item be continued to June 17,
1992, and called for a motion.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON TO CONTINUE CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT 92 -4 TO THE MEETING OF JUNE 17, 1992, SECOND BY
COMMISSIONER BRINLEY.
Approved 5 -0
2. Tentative Parcel Map 27033 and Zone Change 91 -7 - Mola
Development - Chairman Saathoff stated that staff has
requested these items be continued to June 17, 1992, and
called for a motion.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON TO CONTINUE TENTATIVE PARCEL
MAP 27033 AND ZONE CHANGE 91 -7 THE MEETING OF JUNE 17, 1992,
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY.
Approved 5 -0
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 2
3. Negative Declaration No. 91 -15 for the City's Northern Sphere
of Influence Boundary - Associate Planner DeGange detailed
this item, explaining that Riverside County Local Agency
Formation Commission (LAFCO) requested that the City provide
additional environmental documentation.
Chairman Saathoff opened the public hearing at 7:07 p.m.,
asking for those wishing to speak in favor.
Mr. Dick Knapp, 29690 Dwan Drive, inquired about notification
to the property owners pulled in through the North Peak
project, and stated he was neither in favor nor opposition.
Chairman Saathoff informed Mr. Knapp that there are certain
legal requirements which have to be met. He then asked for
anyone else wishing to speak in favor. Receiving no response,
he asked for opposition. Hearing none, the public hearing was
closed at 7:09 p.m.
A brief discussion was held on the Local Agency Formation
Commission's requirement for preparation of a Negative
Declaration.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
ADOPTION OF NEGATIVE DECLARATION 91 -15 AND AMENDMENT TO
RESOLUTION 91 -66, INCORPORATING NEGATIVE DECLARATION 91 -15,
BASED ON THE FINDINGS LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT, SECOND BY
COMMISSIONER WILSEY.
Approved 5 -0
BUSINESS ITEMS
4. Single - Family Residence - 16770 Hunt Avenue - Jack DiLemme -
Assistant Planner Villa presented a request for Minor Design
Review of a 1,406 square foot single - family dwelling.
Chairman Saathoff asked if there was anyone representing the
applicant and if there were any concerns. Mr. Jack DiLemme
responded that he had no problem with staff recommendation.
Chairman Saathoff asked for discussion at the table. Receiv-
ing no response, he asked Mr. Knapp if this was one of the
items alluded to, and informed him that condition number 8
requires the applicant to submit a Soils Report, which
includes a sewage disposal plan, prior to issuance of building
permit.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER WILSEY TO APPROVE SINGLE - FAMILY
RESIDENCE AT 16770 HUNT AVENUE BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND
SUBJECT TO THE 29 CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF
REPORT, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
Approved 5 -0
5. Residential Project 89 -11 Revision Number 3 - MacLeod
Development - At this time, Chairman Saathoff asked for those
wishing to speak on the proposal.
Mr. Peter Dawson, 18010 Grand Avenue, President of Kilmsny
Orchard P.O.A. and Vice President of Landowners Mutual
Corporation P.O.A., both developments are within the Lakeland
Village area, waterfront on the downstream side of Grand
Avenue. We are just downstream from the new MacLeod
development, known as Prestonwood. We have been severely
impacted by that development without proper drainage to
protect downstream property owners. When I came to report to
you, I believe it was last December, regarding that and at
that time you said that this was the first you had heard of
that problem, so I have come to give a little more information
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 3
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
and to give you an update. First of all, a little bit of
chronology, we had minor damage in 1989. We had major severe
damage in 1990, which I alluded to last December in my report
to you including erosion to our beach - -big enough to drive a
truck into -- extensive damage to homes at the same time. We
hired a consultant engineer, Applied Consultants of San Diego.
We hired an attorney, Negele, Knoppfler of Universal City. We
won our case, it is very clear that there was damage, and it
was caused by the development. We heard response from your
department - -the Lake Elsinore City Engineer, Ray O'Donnell,
and he says that he has revisited the site - -this is something
after our meeting of last December - -he contacted the
developer, he requested the developer to take remedial action
and he will continue to work with the developer. This is the
letter we've got stating that and it is available to you I'm
sure. Now, this is the last we heard - -one letter and the
response from the developer was a bunch of sandbags. Well
now, that doesn't sound like a modern progressive development
and a modern progressive city to me. Sandbags won't be a good
temporary measure, but it certainly isn't a long term measure
and what happens when the developer goes away, is sandbags the
answer for the next 50 years, I hardly think so. Now during
this winter of 1991/92 we had no heavy downpours still there
were ruts in our beach, about 2 feet deep and the potential
damage is still severe. This is second rate response and we
are just not satisfied with it and we are convinced that you
won't want to go along with this developer's new ideas of
downgrading his homes or whatever without taking into
consideration downstream residences. We have extensive
comments available to you from the Department of Building and
Safety where there were complaints and people were protected
through the court system and we feel that you now must protect
us further.
Ms. Bonnie Dowling, 32877 Marie Street, I live directly on the
beach that is affected by the flooding and was there at the
time and helped other homeowners that had 2 -3 feet of water in
their homes as well as the problem on the beach. I spoke
before you in December of last year, and did receive the same
response as Mr. Dawson did - -a letter of assurance that you
would be monitoring this and that some remedial action would
be taken. To date, the only remedial action I see is the
sandbags in the street -- nothing different has changed. I am
only here to say, and will try to make it brief so that I am
not repeating what Mr. Dawson said, that before any approval
of any additions to that tract can be made they are going to
have to be brought into adherence with what they had
originally set up in the plan as far as flood control is
concerned.
Chairman Saathoff - as a clarification, would you comment
briefly regarding the flood control situation at this
particular time. Bearing in mind that what we are doing here
this evening really doesn't have anything to do with flood
control. I mean, it is design review for some models of the
home.
Ms. Dowling - I noticed that portion has been removed from the
agenda.
Chairman Saathoff - that is an issue that is really mute this
evening.
Community Development Manager Shear - I think Ray O'Donnell
requested that the engineers for the site prepare some
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 4
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
drawings in which, I noticed behind you, show some of the
drainage issues that they are concerned with. At this time,
the flood control channel behind the tract is fully installed
which eliminates a large portion of the flooding problems.
When the tract was first graded we had a unique rain storm and
also the fire in that area and they had a flash flood that
caused the mud and water to go in a different direction. The
developer has addressed the issues of flooding his tract would
cause. I think, if Commission has more precise requirements
Ray O'Donnell can answer those.
Ray O'Donnell, Engineering Department - I discussed with the
developer and I think he is ready to make a presentation that
I think would be of education to the citizens, as well as the
Council, to explain the hydrology of the area, the hydraulics
and the flooding on Grand Avenue.
Chairman Saathoff - before we bring the matter to the table
then - -the applicant in the audience would probably like to
make a statement, we will let him, is that alright Commission?
Mr. Paul White - I represent MacLeod Development Company, 2
North Lake, Pasadena. I have a few things to say concerning
the development, but as long as we are on the drainage my
civil engineer, John Dierksen, I'd like to give him an
opportunity to speak and then I would like to reserve a few
comments after that.
John Dierksen, PHB Engineering, 109 East Huntington Drive,
Monrovia. Kevin alluded to the maps behind you there and the
issue here is - -the March rains of a year ago and even before
any development in this area, the drainage area looked like
this, it drained onto Grand Avenue and a good portion of the
water spilled over the road - -went down these streets into the
lake and we've drawn a cross section here to show what the
water depth and quantity looked like leaving basically this
same area, where that arrow is. Before any development water
was about a foot and a half deep and about 75 cubic feet per
second. After development, this channel was installed it
carries almost 700 c.f.s., cubic feet per second, into a storm
drain that winds through and outlets into the lake and really
as part of condition of the tract this major storm drain
facility eliminates- -what you can see in this drainage area- -
almost the entire drainage area. At the present time, the
water that runs through the tract goes in two directions- -
there has been a storm drain installed through this corner of
the tract which drains this area - -runs down the alley through
the street pattern out Sangston and down Grand and there is a
portion of the tract here that drains directly onto Grand and
the condition now is slightly less flow and the water depth is
about half. Of course, this is going to carry more water
because it is a paved street now and the capacity of the
street is greater, so we have a condition now where none of
the water over tops Grand it is all carried down Grand, and I
think probably the bigger part of this issue is the fact that
we go from City to County and the County street section looks
different. Once we get past our tract, the street tips - -all
the water flows across the street and down through these
houses. And I think the real issue is, you know - -does this
development cause more or less water to leave the site, well
it is slightly less about 15 cubic feet per second less than
would have left there before. Now, we understand that there
were a lot of reasons why the flooding happened in 191, part
of it was the fire that happened up here that caused greater
run -off, part of it was the fact that the erosion control was
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 5
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
not properly installed at the time of the storm and any time
you have a graded site with no erosion control or vegetation
the water is just going to run right off, carry the mud with
it so.
Commissioner Wilsey - all the facilities in place, now?
John Dierksen - yes.
Commissioner Wilsey - and operational?
John Dierksen - yes. This channel right now carries about 750
cubic feet per second. It is a major facility that was paid
for by the developer and I think there was three developers
that shared in the cost of that. I believe that MacLeod
Development's portion of that was about a quarter of a million
dollars.
Commissioner Wilsey - the first thing that enters my mind is,
do you have any calcs with regard to how much more run -off you
have off the surface with pavement in there and housing, roofs
and all of these things as compared to what it was.
John Dierksen - that is what this calculation is based on, and
this is all based on 100 year event storm.
Commissioner Wilsey - but what happens when we have - -I realize
that it is County, but it is still a problem, and it is their
problem - -what happens when it exits Grand Avenue over here and
we have all of this beautiful paving and it is doing a great
job and we've got a dam on Grand Avenue at the end of your
project.
John Dierksen - that is right, it is down the street a ways - -I
mean - -it looks like this for a little while and then before
Sangston the road tips. You are right, there is a dam right
before that little store and all of the water goes across the
street.
Commissioner Wilsey - I was out there three times this winter
checking this and that was after you people were in, in
December, and I didn't see any crossing -- remember that little
old lady that came in - -I didn't see any water going across
that street into her property the times that I were out - -the
times I was out there.
Mr. Peter Dawson - February 19, 1992, I note sheet action
crossed Grand Avenue - -a street sweeper used to clean the
street.
Commissioner Wilsey - I wasn't there then, but I went out two
or three times to check that.
Mr. Peter Dawson - it was not a heavy rain winter of course.
If we were to get a heavy one, we would have a problem. The
developer here is clouding the issue here by discussing areas
behind the tract and not the run -off of the tract itself which
is not mitigated other than anything just running onto Grand
Avenue and where it goes from there is no longer his business,
that is no way to build a development.
Commissioner Brinley - could you address that issue he just
brought up - -when it leaves the mitigation problems there.
John Dierksen - I guess from a drainage stand point, the
developer feels that we're letting less water onto Grand than
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 6
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
previously would've flowed through Grand and by that fact
alone it is somewhat of a mitigation. I mean, there is about
15 percent less water being let down Grand right now than was
there before the development.
Chairman Saathoff - to really solve the problem it is going to
be Grand Avenue.
John Dierksen - yes, right.
Commissioner Wilsey - that is the crux of the problem right
there in front of that store.
John Dierksen - if Grand Avenue was improved, this street
section would carry the water.
Commissioner Brinley - M & M Market?
Chairman Saathoff - the point is Grand Avenue.
Commissioner Sellevold - that is County right after.
Commissioner Gilenson - more of a comment than a question, but
a question also. If I'm understanding correctly the project- -
these people's residences flooded before your project, is that
correct?
John Dierksen - see that's probably a question that the answer
is probably no. Now, if you were to do the calculations, okay
based on a 100 event storm, which is pretty close to what we
had in 191, the answer would be yes, the possibility for
flooding was there.
Commissioner Gilenson - but it never actually flooded.
John Dierksen - right, because we didn't have the rains and we
didn't have the fire.
Commissioner Gilenson - okay, if it didn't flood before, and
you are saying you decreased the amount of flow going over now
John Dierksen - potential flow.
Commissioner Gilenson - but now it is flooding, I don't under-
stand how that can happen. If it wasn't flooding before - -you
decreased the amount of flow and now they are flooding. I
don't understand that.
Ray O'Donnell - what happened was when this tract got graded
there wasn't enough erosion control in the tract and a lot of
silt got out onto Grand and when that happened it dammed the
water right there - -just this side of the tract and it all went
over on the other side of the street.
Commissioner Gilenson - it changed the direction and capacity
of the flow.
Chairman Saathoff - that was one year, I think - -Ray.
Ray O'Donnell - that was because silt was getting out onto the
street from this tract.
Chairman Saathoff - that was that one year that really created
a problem, I think we are all aware of that and know the
circumstances. I think that Mr. Gilenson's question is, prior
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 7
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
to 191 - -in 181 when we had near the 100 year storm, was there
flooding in that area?
Mr. Peter Dawson - we're aware - -there was not.
Chairman Saathoff - no flooding what so ever in 1981 -83.
Commissioner Brinley - no flooding in 1981.
Commissioner Wilsey - 1983, 80, or 79.
Ms. Dowling - not in the homes.
Mr. Dawson - nothing
Commissioner Brinley - front yards
Chairman Saathoff - front yards or anything
Commissioner Brinley - nothing
Ms. Dowling - there was from the lake coming up into the
houses - -there were on frontage to the beach, but not on the
Grand Avenue side, and I believe if you went back and reviewed
what we spoke on in December, Margaret Downie was the lady
that was there since 1940- -spoke on that issue since she lived
in that house since 1940 - -she will sign an affidavit to the
fact that she has never had a flood prior to this year - -this
time.
Commissioner Gilenson - see I've been out there much like Mr.
Wilsey. Whenever it rains, I make it a point, since December,
to go out there and look at it and I have seen rain traversing
from one side of Grand over to the other. I don't think the
problem has been corrected; unfortunately, that is not before
US. What we have tonight is design review. We have no
authority to change anything doing with drainage at this
point. My recommendation would be, possibly City Council
could or through litigation. We have no authority to change
anything on that tonight.
Chairman Saathoff — obviously, it is a civil matter.
Commissioner Gilenson - yeah, we have no authority to change
it. It is a mute point, it is out of our hands basically.
Chairman Saathoff - I think they agree with that.
Commissioner Gilenson - I agree with that.
Commissioner Wilsey - I think we all agree with that, but the
problem is, we do have a problem there. The problem didn't
exist before the tract.
Commissioner Gilenson - right.
Commissioner Wilsey - okay, we know where the problem and
where the bottleneck of that problem is and we realize it is
in County. What can we do as a community to solve the
problem, push County to improve that portion of the road,
joint funds, developer cooperation, what can we do to get it
handled?
Community Development Manager Shear - staff can speak to the
County, but I can't really say that we can push the County to
do anything.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 8
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
Commissioner Wilsey - I realize it is off -site, what are you
guys willing to do to help these people out? We know that we
didn't have a problem before you graded that tract out - -what
are you willing to do to help these people?
John Dierksen - I think Ray addressed part of that, the fact
that the drainage went across the street was due in part - -a
large amount of mud that came down here because of the erosion
control not being in place. I think the situation there
today, is certainly better than that isolated incident that
happened with the large rainfall.
Commissioner Gilenson - its better, its better.
Commissioner Wilsey - from what I see out there, I would agree
with that, but we still have a problem out there.
John Dierksen - there is still a problem.
Commissioner Wilsey - I've seen it this winter and we didn't
have the silt coming out of the tract at that time. What we
have is a lot of streets and all of that draining into Grand
Avenue where we didn't have quite that concentration before,
and I'm not an engineer and I don't know the numbers, but I
also know where the bottleneck is, any five -year old kid can
go figure that out. What we need to do is get rid of the
bottleneck, and I am suggesting - -and it is up to you guys to
figure out whether you want to help out or not - -to help these
people out and be a good neighbor is to go in there and do
some cooperation to put a pipe across that doggoned thing or
whatever it would take.
John Dierksen - let me say, I think the other part of this
issue is - -the if here - -if these houses were built, the yards
were landscaped, we wouldn't have the erosion problem anymore.
The sandbags could be eliminated and the sandbagging would no
longer be the permanent solution. That is part of the reason
we are here tonight.
Commissioner Wilsey - I can understand that aspect of it, but
you are going to have roofs and yards. Okay, now you've got
open pads, I assume they have weeds on them, I haven't been
through that tract, but you've got direct percolation for the
square foot of the lot area right now. Okay, so I'm thinking,
being a layman in this I don't know anything about it, I'm
thinking, that direct percolation on a lot is going to give
you better percolation than a roof coming off and running it
down the driveway to the street. Okay, are we going to have
a more intense problem when we get houses in the rest of that
tract, I don't know.
Community Development Manager Shear - it is the engineer's
design they take that into consideration.
John Dierksen - that's what these numbers are based on, so
Community Development Manager Shear - Now, you also have to
understand, since this tract has been going on, 4 -5 years ago,
in the County they have other tracts that have developed and
added to the problem, so it's not all this developer and just
city. I mean, County is approving projects of large develop-
ments that are impacting these people also and not solving the
problem.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 9
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
Commissioner Wilsey - I think we all understand that and we
also understand that you got a City /County problem there. The
guy that is in the County, until he wants to do something with
that property - -be it whatever - -he can sit tight and nothing
can happen. Okay, you got the City, maybe they can come up
with some contributing funds, I don't know. County, they may
not want to spend any money everybody is tight budget. The
developer he doesn't have the obligation or responsibility to
go off -site, we all know that. But I'm saying that some where
there has got to be some- cooperation to get the situation
alleviated.
Chairman Saathoff - Ray, have you ever contacted the County at
any time, do you know?
Ray O'Donnell - not that I know of, no. We went out there and
the other problem was when they did their improvements out on
Grand Avenue they put a AC berm all the way across almost to
the existing pavement out there and that caused the problem,
that directed the water across the street. We had them cut
that back and try to get that water around that liquor store,
or whatever it is there, try to get it around that -- that's if
we could work with the County and cut that back so that we
could increase the capacity of that side of the street. You
see what happens, is the cars drive by and they wave it and
the water waves across the street, but it is not going to be
as bad as it was because of the erosion is not going to be on
the street like it was in 189. It's not going to be that bad.
Commissioner Gilenson - I said this back in December, and I'll
say it again, I take exception with the developer and staff
saying that it is not going to be as bad. What are you
comparing it to, 3 feet of flood or 1 foot of flood. it is
just bad, you get 1 foot of water in your house or 3 feet. I
don't buy it is not going to be as bad - -if it is flooding it
is flooding, it's gotta be corrected. That is all I have.
Chairman Saathoff - any other comments.
Commissioner Wilsey - the only other comment that I would
make - -if we could send some kind of notation on this to City
Council for further discussion and review of this matter.
Somebodies got to be able to come up with some kind of a
compromise on this and it is going to take a multi -
municipality-- County, developer whatever compromise to come up
with it.
Commissioner Brinley - and including the homeowners.
Commissioner Wilsey - somebody got some asphalt - -I'll take a
backhoe down there and we'll dig that sucker out and put a
pipe in it and be done tomorrow.
Chairman Saathoff - Paul
Mr. Paul White - one of the map conditions was for MacLeod to
put up a sum of money that would be for future road improve-
ments once the County has - -I believe we have done so. I don't
know if you can use those immediately, I am certainly not
going to get involved in engineering's business - -how they are
going to deal with City /County what not, but I believe there
are some funds available that we have put up that could be put
to some good use.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 10
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
Chairman Saathoff - did you want to address the conditions on
the
Mr. White - should we have the staff report before I address.
Chairman Saathoff asked staff for the report.
Associate Planner DeGange - the applicant, McLeod Development
requests a Minor Design Review of three models to be
constructed on 90 lots within Tract 19358, which was
previously approved for four models, on the total of 171 lots,
as part of Residential Project 89 -11. As you might recall, on
November 1, 1989 Planning Commission approved Residential
Project 89 -11, like I stated before this was for four models
on 171 lots. Due to changes in the housing market, the
applicant submitted Residential Project 89 -11 Revision #1 and
89 -11 Revision #2. Revision #1 was approved by Planning
Commission on October 2, 1991, Residential Project 89 -11
Revision #2 was continued by the Planning Commission due to
drainage and flooding issues as we have discussed. Currently,
the applicant is submitting a third revision in further
response to the changing housing market. The three proposed
models are: 1,000 square feet, 1,327 square feet and 1,638
square feet. This will replace the 5th, 6th and 7th plans
that were being proposed in Revisions #1 and #2. The proposed
project includes the addition of three new models, like I've
stated, to be in conjunction with the previously approved four
models. At present, 44 lots have been constructed with the
four original models. The applicant proposes to construct an
additional 37 of the approved four models and then construct
the new models being proposed tonight on the remaining 90
lots. The three new models, Plan A, like I said before, was
a 1,000 square foot three - bedroom, two - bathroom structure, and
Plan B is a two -story 1,327 square foot structure, and the
Plan C is a two -story 1,638 square foot structure. In your
staff report there is a breakdown on the percentage that these
models will include in the entire development. Materials and
colors: the applicant is proposing to use the same three
roofing colors and roofing types, the same nine stucco colors
and the same nine trim colors. Staff does have a couple of
concerns with the project, as proposed. First of all, staff
has some concern with the proposed 1,000 square foot model.
First of all, it may have some sort of financial and visual
impacts on the rest of the tract. With this in mind, and
having conveyed this to the applicant, staff and the applicant
worked closely to develop ways in which to reduce the impacts,
visually and financially on the rest of the tract. This was
done, first of all, through the limiting of the number of
1,000 square foot units. Secondly, by making sure that the
width of the smaller unit is as wide or wider than the larger
units. I might add, that three proposed plans tonight are
two -feet wider than the four previously approved models,
including the 1,000 square foot model. Thirdly, through using
consistent architectural themes with the other models, using
the same roofing colors, materials, same architectural
treatments Fourthly, making sure that the smaller unit is
expandable; in other words, being able making sure to add on
to it if someone were to buy a 1,000 square foot unit they
would be able to add on another room. Sometimes, you get a
model which it is impossible to add on to, but in this case
the applicant has put together a smaller unit, but it has the
ability to be added on to, and also the fact that the units
will be plotted on or these units will be plotted on lots that
allow for being added on to; in other words, there is enough
room in the rear of the lot in order to add on to it. And
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 11
RESIDENTIAL.PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
Fifthly, by scattering the plotting of these smaller units
through out the development and making sure that they are
never directly adjacent to one another. In addition, staff
has added a couple of conditions, condition number 3 and 4, to
further reduce these impacts. First of all, condition number
3 limits the number of Plan A's that are to be constructed to
12 percent of the total development. Condition 4 has been
added to ensure that the units in this project are plotted in
a manner in a way to minimize the impacts to the other units.
Another concern that staff has is of course drainage, we have
already discussed that. With all of this in mind, staff would
recommend that Planning Commission approve Minor Design Review
for Residential Project 89 -11 Revision #3 based on the
Findings and subject to the attached conditions of approval,
this would conclude staff's report.
Chairman Saathoff - would you care to address the Commission.
Mr. White - just a few words on the proposed homes. I was
hoping John would have brought the other colored renderings of
the previous four homes, but you would see that from the
street the plan to the 1,300 foot two -story home does not look
any smaller than the plan 2 of the current house, which is
1,879 square feet, so from the front elevation we are not
giving the appearance of a scaled down - -all of the homes will
conform to each other. You are not going to get the
appearance of a group of big homes and a group of small homes.
The plan 1 is actually the same width and looks from the
street as a plan 5 which was already approved, that was a
previous single -story that was approved but never built.
We've been going through a lot of changes and I don't think I
need to tell any of you the market conditions and competition
so what we will be doing is operating a new model complex so
we'll in effect have two model complexes at the same site,
which would offer seven models at the project so any potential
buyer would have a wide range of homes to chose from. As far
as the 1,000 square foot model goes, we are trying to
obviously attract buyers by being able to provide a low cost,
but at the same time quality house. One of staff concerns was
that it was a bit small thus the restriction on the number of
those units within the tract. Even through it is a 1,000
square foot, like I said, I don't think it detours from the
rest of the project. I don't think it looks like all of a
sudden we have very tiny units that doesn't look like any of
the tract. We do have, way on the back wall, a plan drawn up
so let say a young couple starting out doesn't have a lot of
money they can get into their first home, 5 years later they
build up some equity they can either add a fourth bedroom or
a large family room to increase the size of the house to
approximately 1200 some square feet. Architecturally it is
very simple, and that would cost somebody $8,000 dollars and
they could add on to the house. Of the Plan 1's that's
plotted all but 2 are expandable that way. There are two lots
that it will not fit, but all the rest will fit on there. I
guess I would conclude my comments, I think we are compatible,
we are going to offer a wide range of homes and if you have
any questions of me at this time.
A person from the audience - asked for the price range.
Mr. White - we haven't set the prices definitely, but I would
imagine the plan 1 would start from 115 -120 thousand.
Chairman Saathoff - bring the matter to the table.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 12
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
Commissioner Gilenson - on the conditions of approval,
condition number 4. I would like to see that reworded so that
all of the items in Special Projects Concerns number 4 and 5
are incorporated into that condition, whereby they make it
expandable, no two small lots adjacent to one another, like to
have that wording incorporated into condition number 4 in
addition to what staff already has here.
Chairman Saathoff - you have building elevations to be
constructed, that one, right?
Commissioner Gilenson - right.
Chairman Saathoff - and you want to add something like, what?
Commissioner Gilenson - making sure that the smaller unit is
expandable, also in the scattering of the plotting of the
smaller units make sure that they are never directly adjacent
to each other, as it says on Special Project Concerns number
4 and 5, incorporate that wording into the condition.
Chairman Saathoff - even though the footprint - -I have no
problem with that.
Commissioner Gilenson - another question that I have, just a
second here - -with this - -I think I'm beating a dead horse with
the drainage, but a question of staff and throw it out to the
Commission, on the Findings for this project. Finding number
1, states subject to the attached conditions the proposed
project is not anticipated to result in a significant adverse
environmental impacts. To me, and maybe I'm wrong, flooding
seems like a health and safety issue which would be a
significant adverse environmental impact. Where if we find
that the flooding does cause health and safety factors
adversely affecting environmental, and I don't feel we can
make this finding and we have authority to deny this project.
That is all I have, thank you.
Associate Planner DeGange - All I can say about that is, that
what this is, is a Minor Design Review and so with that in
mind - -the fact that we are reviewing the models for these
homes is what the actual project is. Unfortunately, the
drainage issues would have been addressed through the
environmental impact report for the tract map, so that is why
we can make that finding.
Commissioner Wilsey - so what you are saying is, the finding
on number 1 is addressing the models and the homes themselves,
the buildings and all of that, not the project itself as a
whole.
Associate Planner DeGange - not the tract.
City Planner Christen - just the action that is before you
tonight.
Commissioner Gilenson - the wording says the proposed project.
Associate Planner DeGange - in this case, the project is the
Minor Design Review.
Commissioner Gilenson - I feel as long as it says proposed
project we can deny this project based on health and safety.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 13
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
Commissioner Brinley - when you talk about the 1,000 square
footage home, how much room are we allowing them for build on-
-say the size of room, they want to build on a family room,
are we talking at least 200 square feet if they wanted to
build on a family room of that size or more.
Associate Planner DeGange - yes, if you look at the schematic
that the applicant has provided there he showed two different
Mr. White - two different options: one 1193 and the other is
1260.
Chairman Saathoff - that is what you have designed, of course
the applicant
Commissioner Brinley - could do something different
Mr. White it is easy because of the roof line in the back is
simple and there is no load carrying, so structurally it would
be simple for them to add on.
Associate Planner DeGange - the floor plan allows for that
too.
Commissioner Brinley - okay, now when we are talking wider- -
the look of being wider, am I looking at the exact rendering
of the width?
Associate Planner DeGange - that's correct, like I said, it is
32 feet wide, wider than the originally approved four models
so it has the appearance of a larger home from the street.
Commissioner Brinley - so literally we've stretched out this
part right in here.
Associate Planner DeGange - right.
Commissioner Brinley - okay, and I do concur with
Commissioner Gilenson about the verbiage on adding that in to
4 and 5.
Commissioner Sellevold - the only question I have is where are
you going to plot these at - -are they going to be next to the
biggest model or are you going to kind of keep them away - -I'm
just thinking of somebody spending $150 -160 thousand on a
house - -I don't know what your models are, I have no idea what
they cost.
Mr. White - like I said, from the front you can't really tell
if it is a 1600 square foot or 2100 square foot house. We
were proposing to have the large units in the interior of the
project and then, you see right behind you, the lower portion
of the tract is where we would begin plotting these and
running these around the outside. There are a few homeowners
in the tract now that we have told them this is what we are
planning to do - -they said great - -even though these are going
to be lower price than those homes.
A person from the audience - actually not, I'm a homeowner.
Mr. White - it is either - -the people that we have spoken to --
we explained to them that we either need to build some smaller
units that we can sell or otherwise we are going to be looking
at these dirt lots for who knows how long.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 14
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
Commissioner Wilsey - do you have a backhoe?
Mr, White - I have access to one.
Commissioner Wilsey - just kidding. I would suggest with
regard to Findings that we change the verbiage on number 1.
As it reads now: Subject to the attached conditions the
proposed project is blah, blah, blah. How about we change
that to say subject to the attached conditions this Minor
Design Review is not anticipated to result in any significant
adverse environmental impact. That solves our problem.
Commissioner Gilenson - it works.
Commissioner Wilsey - we also have a request to us from the
Engineering Department to add a condition and I assume that
would be condition number 6 from Engineering. Have you
reviewed the proposed conditions from Engineering?
Mr. White - yes.
Commissioner Wilsey - applicant shall prepare a Letter of Map
Revision (LOMB) to FEMA for blah, blah, blah. I submit that
as condition 6. The only concern that I had, and it wasn't
really a concern but I'll bring it up anyway - -on the 1,000
square foot house, when I look at the plotting from the right
and left side I thought that they lacked embellishment. Now,
before you think my God, it really doesn't matter if they are
going to be in their own individual yards - -right and left side
yards - -where it would matter, I would think, would be if those
sides faces of those houses where ever they may be in this
tract would be visible from the public right -of -way or due to
pad elevations visible from other homes, then we might
consider conditioning them to add some embellishments.
Associate Planner DeGange - condition number 2 states - -kind
of addresses that in a sense - -it states that all windows
greater than one square foot shall have some embellishments
around them. In other words, they will either use stucco
surrounds or wood trim to provide some sort of relief from
those elevations. So staff had tried to address those
concerns with this condition. I don't know if this would be
adequate to address your concerns, but that was the intent of
that particular condition.
Commissioner Wilsey - that might work, but you can throw a
piece of 2 x 4 or something or a 1 x 6, and call that
embellishment.
Associate Planner DeGange - it would have to be consistent
with what has already been approved with respect to the other
models, and they provided stucco surrounds in the other
models.
Commissioner Wilsey - there is no way obviously - -I understand,
there is no way that you could plot where these individual
houses are going to be in this thing and that was my other
solution - -to figure out a solution to plot these suckers on
what you have shown us on the vicinity map - -that is what I'm
looking at - -to make sure that these are not very visible from
either upper elevation pads or street wise.
Mr. White - we have plotted the first 40 homes and I believe
condition number 4, once we go in for building permits on a
particular phase - -and they will approve that before issuance.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 15
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
Commissioner Wilsey - I am going to assume that condition
number 2-will cover my concern on that.
Mr. White - with regard to condition number 2, I would like to
have that say where visible from public right -of -way. We do
have a lot of homes that will be backing up to open space and
I don't see any reason to put the stucco surrounds on the
backs or sides of homes that no one is going to see.
Commissioner Wilsey - but we don't know do we that it will
remain open space.
Mr. White - that is a huge hill behind there.
Commissioner Wilsey - who owns it?
Mr. White - I believe that is a lot of County land back there.
You know, it goes straight up the hill to the Ortega Highway
above.
Commissioner Brinley - would like to see it stay just for the
quality of the homes.
Commissioner Wilsey - question there would be, is it public
land that would not be developed or is it private land that
could be developed, who knows?
Commissioner Brinley - and for the quality of the home to
leave it, you know for the quality of the home.
Commissioner Gilenson - I would just as soon leave it.
Chairman Saathoff - leave it in - -its not that many.
Mr. White - with regard to condition.3, 12 percent works out
to 20.5 units, if we could make that 21.
Commissioner Gilenson - why not 20?
Chairman Saathoff - how about 19?
Mr. White - I gave in on the stucco surrounds.
Commissioner Wilsey - do you want to make that 12.5 percent
then?
Associate Planner DeGange - or you could just say 21 homes.
MOTION BY WILSEY TO APPROVE RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION
NO. 3 BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO THE 5 CONDITIONS OF
APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT WITH THE FOLLOWING
AMENDMENTS:
Finding No. 1: Subject to the attached conditions the
__r___a r-_j__a this Minor Design Review
is not anticipated to result in any
significant adverse environmental
impacts.
Condition No. 3: No more than _..__._ r_______ ,___, twenty-
one (21) homes of the total project (171
lots) shall be constructed with the 1000
square foot Plan A.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 16
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 89 -11 REVISION NUMBER 3 CONTINUED
Condition No. 4: A revised plotting plan indicating the
plotting for all new models (Plans A,B,
and C) and the revised placement of all
of the originally approved plans for R
89 -11 shall be submitted to the Planning
Division for approval prior to issuance
of building permits.
Condition No. 6:
a) making sure that the smaller unit is
expandable (can be added on to) and
is plotted on lots which will allow
for this; and
b) scattering the plotting of the
smaller units throughout the
development and making sure that
they are never directly adjacent to
one another.
Applicant shall
Revision (LOMR)
land in Zone
construction of
Applicant pays
process letter
prepare a Letter of Map
to FEMA for removal of
AO made possible by
flood control facilities.
all appropriate fees and
through the city; letter
must be processed before certificate of
occupancy.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY.
Approved 4 -1 (Commissioner Gilenson voting no)
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
City Planner Christen commented on the downsizing of developments
and informed the Commission that with the current market situation
this is something that will be coming before you in the future.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Brinley
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Sellevold
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Wilsey
With regard to Mr. Knapp's comments, what time frames do we look
at.
Community Development Manager Shear gave a brief history on the
structures referred to by Mr. Knapp, explaining that sometimes
people over extend themselves and detailed the procedure mortgage
or lending institutions and the City goes through to resolve. He
then stated that the will -serve letters are required up- front, and
septic system approval is required from the County Health Depart-
ment on design and placement prior to building permits.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 3, 1992
Page 17
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS CONTINUED
Chairman Saathoff
Asked Commissioner Wilsey if he wanted to request a statement be
sent to City Council from Planning Commission requesting that the
Engineering Department contact the County with regard to the
flooding concerns on Grand Avenue.
Commissioner Wilsey responded in the affirmative, stating that this
is a complex problem.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER WILSEY, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY AND
CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE THAT A STATEMENT FROM THE PLANNING
COMMISSION BE SENT TO CITY COUNCIL REQUESTING THAT THE ENGINEERING
DEPARTMENT WORK WITH THE VARIOUS DEVELOPERS IN THE AREA AND CONTACT
THE COUNTY WITH REGARD TO THE FLOODING CONCERNS ON GRAND AVENUE AND
SEE IF THERE IS ANYTHING THAT CAN BE DONE.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 8:04 p.m., motion by Commissioner Brinley,
second by Commissioner Gilenson.
Approved 5 -0
ed
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Chairman
Re ctfu11 Submitted,
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Secretary
MINUTES OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE 17TH DAY OF JUNE 1992
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Wilsey.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Brinley, Sellevold, Wilsey
and Saathoff
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: None
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, City Planner
Christen, Associate Planner DeGange, Assistant Planner Villa, and
Engineering Manager O'Donnell.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Brinley to approve minutes of June 3, 1992.
Motion died for lack of second.
Motion by Commissioner Gilenson to continue Minutes of June 3, 1992
to next meeting, as I am reviewing the tape with regard to the
MacLeod project and have additional notes that I would like added,
second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5 -0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no request to speak, Chairman Saathoff closed the
PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Tentative Parcel Map 27033 and Zone Change 91 -7 - Mola
Development (Continued from June 3, 1992) - Chairman Saathoff
stated that staff has requested these items be continued to
July 15, 1992, and called for a motion.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY TO CONTINUE TENTATIVE PARCEL
MAP 27033 AND ZONE CHANGE 91 -7 THE MEETING OF JULY 15, 1992,
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
Commissioner Gilenson asked for discussion. He then commented
on the number of continuations. Associate Planner DeGange
stated this is the second continuation.
There being no further discussion, Chairman Saathoff called
for the question.
Approved 5 -0
2. Conditional Use Permit 92 -4 - Keith R. Liston (Gene R. Bouch)-
Continued from June 3, 1992 - Chairman Saathoff stated that
the applicant has requested this item be continued to July 15,
1992, and asked for any discussion.
Commissioner Gilenson commented on the number of continuations
and as long as there are negotiations going on does not see
any problem with giving them a third extension.
Assistant Planner Villa detailed the reasons for the
continuations, explaining that the requirement for paved
parking is still being negotiated between the applicant and
the property owner.
Commissioner Gilenson commented on justification for
continuations and whether the item should be continued or
pulled and have applicant resubmit when ready, and the amount
of staff time involved with continuations.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 17, 1992
Page 2
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 92 -4 CONTINUED
Commissioner Wilsey inquired about the cost factor.
Community Development Manager Shear stated minimal time is
involved and it is charged off to the account, and the
recommendation could be modified to continuance to July 15th
with no further continuations allowed.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON TO CONTINUE CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT 92 -4 TO THE MEETING OF JULY 15, 1992, WITH THE
UNDERSTANDING THAT NO FURTHER EXTENSIONS WILL BE GRANTED,
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER WILSEY.
Approved 5 -0
3. Conditional Use Permit 92 -6 - Misc Lake Elsinore Partners
(Chase Development) Chris' Kids Club - Assistant Planner Villa
presented a request to establish a child care facility in the
C -1 (Neighborhood Commercial) Zoning District. The project is
located at 31912 -31920 Mission Trail.
Chairman Saathoff opened the public hearing at 7:09 p.m.,
asking for those wishing to speak in favor.
Ms. Chris Greer, President of Chris' Kids Club, stated she
concurs with staff recommendation, and gave reasons for
relocating the facility.
Chairman Saathoff asked if anyone else wished to speak in
favor. Receiving no response, he asked for opposition.
Hearing none, the public hearing was closed at 7:10 p.m.
Commissioner Brinley commented on construction of interior
improvements and whether children would be present during this
period; number of children enrolled; play area and where
children are going to play during the construction period;
when relocation of facility would occur.
Ms. Greer responded that interior improvement plans have been
submitted. With approval tonight, we are planning on doing
tenant improvements tomorrow which should be done next
Tuesday, all improvements done before we move in. Technically
if we got the approval, we do have State approval, if the Fire
Marshal and Planning Department would agree to it, occupy half
of our new facility which would qualify to handle the number
of children we have, which is 65 at present.
Commissioner Gilenson commented on the tenant improvements and
stated for the safety and convenience of the children would
like to add condition 10, Certificate of Occupancy will not be
issued until construction and landscaping is completed.
Commissioner Sellevold stated that he concurs with the
addition of condition number 10. He then commented on the
play area with regard to landscaping of the 5 foot slope area
and the steps leading to the play area.
Ms. Greer stated an enhanced landscape plan with ground cover,
shrubs and trees, has been reviewed by Roger Kobata.
Chairman Saathoff inquired about grading, and there being no
indication on the plans that grading is to be done. He then
commented on the landscaping and recommended the landscaping
plan be reviewed by the Planning Commission.
Discussion ensued on the play area and the slope area with
regard to safety.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 17, 1992
Page 3
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 92 -6 CONTINUED
Commissioner Wilsey suggested the addition of condition number
11, Landscape Plans shall be approved by the Community
Development Manager.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER WILSEY TO APPROVE CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT 92 -6 BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO THE 9
CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT WITH THE
FOLLOWING AMENDMENTS:
Condition No. 10: Certificate of Occupancy will not be
issued until construction and landscaping
is completed.
Condition No. 11: Landscape Plans shall be approved by the
Community Development Manager.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON.
Approved 5 -0
BUSINESS ITEMS
4. Single - Family Residence - 16513 Stevens Street - Gregory Ward
- Associate Planner DeGange presented a request for Minor
Design Review of a 2,753 square foot, two- story, single - family
dwelling.
Chairman Saathoff asked if there was anyone representing the
applicant. Receiving no response, he asked for discussion at
the table.
Discussion was held on whether a parcel merger was required
and the proposed color.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON TO APPROVE SINGLE - FAMILY
RESIDENCE AT 16513 STEVENS BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT
TO THE 24 CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT,
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY.
Approved 5 -0
5. Single- Family Residence - 16511 Stevens Street - Vincent Berry
- Assistant Planner Villa presented a request for Minor Design
Review of a 2,008 square foot, two - story, single - family
dwelling.
Chairman Saathoff asked if there was anyone representing the
applicant. Receiving no response, he asked for discussion at
the table.
Commissioner Gilenson commented on condition number 5, roofing
material, and suggested it be amended to reflect the same
language as the previous proposal. Also, requested that the
standard paragraph regarding Materials and Colors be included
in future reports.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRINLEY TO APPROVE SINGLE - FAMILY
RESIDENCE AT 16511 STEVENS BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT
TO THE 23 CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE REPORT WITH THE
FOLLOWING AMENDMENT:
Condition No. 5: Applicant shall use clay tile roofing
material as proposed. Any alterations to
the approved roofing material shall be
subject to the approval of the Community
Development Manager or designee.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
Approved 5 -0
Planning Commission Minutes
June 17, 1992
Page 4
6. Freestanding Sign - Brookstone Landing (Steve's Sign) -
Chairman Saathoff stated the applicant has requested this item
be withdrawn from the Agenda and will resubmit.
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Brinley
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Sellevold
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Wilsey
Nothing to report.
Chairman Saathoff
Nothing to report.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 7:32 p.m., motion by Commissioner Gilenson,
second by Commissioner Brinley.
Approved 5 -0
App ved,
i 1 aathoff,
Chairman
41n epectfully Submitted,
d�G °ndstaff
Secretary
MINUTES OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE 1ST DAY OF JULY 1992
CALL TO ORDER:
The Planning Commission Meeting was called to order at 7:04
p.m by Vice Chairman Gilenson.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE:
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Commissioner Sellevold.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Brinley, Sellevold
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: Wilsey, Saathoff
Also present were: Community Development Manager Shear, City
Planner Christen, Assistant Planner Villa, Engineering Manager
O'Donnell and Deputy City Clerk Bryning.
OATH OF OFFICE:
Deputy City Clerk Bryning issued Oath of Office to Pamela A.
Brinley, Richard L. Bullard and Donald R.R. Neff.
SELECTION OF CHAIRMAN:
Deputy City Clerk Bryning assumed the Chair and opened
nominations for the position of Chairman.
Commissioner Sellevold nominated Pam Brinley
Commissioner Bullard seconded the nomination.
MOVED BY BRINLEY, SECONDED BY SELLEVOLD AND CARRIED BY
UNANIMOUS VOTE TO CLOSE THE NOMINATIONS FOR THE POSITION OF
CHAIRMAN.
The Deputy City Clerk called for a roll call vote with results
as follows:
COMMISSIONER BRINLEY VOTED FOR COMMISSIONER BRINLEY
COMMISSIONER BULLARD VOTED FOR COMMISSIONER BRINLEY
COMMISSIONER GILENSON VOTED FOR COMMISSIONER BRINLEY
COMMISSIONER NEFF VOTED FOR COMMISSIONER BRINLEY
COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD VOTED FOR COMMISSIONER BRINLEY
COMMISSIONER BRINLEY WAS DECLARED CHAIRMAN AND ASSUMED THE
CHAIR.
SELECTION OF VICE CHAIRMAN:
Chairwoman Brinley opened nominations for the position of
Vice Chairman.
Chairwoman Brinley nominated Chairman Sellevold.
Commissioner Gilenson seconded the nomination.
MOVED BY GILENSON, SECONDED BY BULLARD AND CARRIED BY
UNANIMOUS VOTE TO CLOSE THE NOMINATIONS FOR VICE CHAIRMAN.
Chairwoman Brinley took a roll call vote with results as
follows:
COMMISSIONER BULLARD VOTED FOR COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD
COMMISSIONER NEFF VOTED FOR COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD
COMMISSIONER GILENSON VOTED FOR COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD
COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD VOTED FOR COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD
CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY VOTED FOR COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD
Planning Commission Minutes
July 1, 1992
Page 2
CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY DECLARED COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD VICE
CHAIRMAN.
MINUTE ACTION:
MOVED BY SELLEVOLD, SECONDED BY BRINLEY AND
3 -0 VOTE WITH COMMISSIONERS NEFF AND BULLARD
APPROVE THE MINUTES OF JUNE 3, 1992.
MOVED BY SELLEVOLD, SECONDED BY BRINLEY AND
3 -0 VOTE WITH COMMISSIONERS NEFF AND BULLARD
APPROVE THE MINUTES OF JUNE 17, 1992.
PUBLIC COMMENTS:
None.
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
CARRIED BY
ABSTAINING TO
CARRIED BY
ABSTAINING TO
Zone Code Amendment 92 -1 - City of Lake Elsinore.
Community Development Manager Shear explained that staff
is requesting a continuance to August 5, 1992.
MOVED BY SELLEVOLD, SECONDED BY BULLARD AND CARRIED BY
UNANIMOUS VOTE TO CONTINUE ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 92 -1 TO THE
MEETING OF AUGUST 5, 1992.
BUSINESS ITEMS:
Residential Project 92 -2 and Models for Tract Map 23988 -1
- 888 Development.
Assistant Planner Villa presented a request for Minor
Design Review of four model homes for Tract 23988 - 1,2,3,
and 4. (Model Home Complex to be on Tract 23988 -1, lots
39, 40, 41, 42 and 43.)
Mr. John L. Allday, 888 Development Company, 1441 E. 17th
Street, STE B, Santa Ana, CA, addressed the Commission
with his concerns regarding the conditions and requested
clarification in regard to some of the conditions. The
items discussed are as follows:
Planning Commission Division Conditions:
1. Design review approval for Residential Project 92 -2
will lapse and be void unless building permits are
issued within one (1) year of the approval date. An
extension of time, up to one (1) year may be granted
by the Planning Commission prior to the expiration of
the initial Design Review approval upon application
by the developer one (1) month prior to expiration.
Community Development Manager Shear explained that
this is Planning procedure and as long as building is
in progress there is no problem. Should there be no
activity then the Design Review Approval for the
project will expire.
17. Prior to the issuance of building permits, the
applicant shall pay park -in -lieu fees in effect at
the time of building permit issuance, or meet the
requirements through dedication of parks: lot "C ",
"D", "E ", and "G"
Community Development Manager Shear explained that
this is a standard and is done when the permits are
pulled. If its lots 1 through 10 then the fees are
paid on those.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 1, 1992
Page 3
25a. All planting areas shall have permanent and automatic
sprinkler system to provide 100% plant and grass
coverage using a combination of drip and conventual
irrigation methods.
Assistant Planner Villa explained that this condition
is based on the City's Landscape Guidelines and
automatic means manual or electric.
25f. All landscaping and irrigation shall be installed
within affected portion of any phase at the time
Certificate of Occupancy is requested for any
building.
Community Development Manager Shear explained that
when the project is in phase production and there are
five houses ready for occupancy and the landscaping
is not done, it is the policy of the City to work
with the developer on a case by case basis.
25j. Landscaping shall be required on all side yards of
all corner lots, (as follows T23988 lot # 36;
T23988 -1 lots #15,01,56,75; T23988 -2 lot #13; T
23988 -3 lots #7, 8, 12, 50,49,43,30,37) and have
permanent and automatic sprinkler system with 100%
water coverage.
Assistant Planner Villa explained that this condition
should have electrical inserted to read as follows:
Landscaping shall be required on all side yards of
all corner lots, (as follows T23988 lot # 36;
T23988 -1 lots #15,01,56,75; T23988 -2 lot #13; T
23988 -3 lots #7, 8, 12, 50,49,43,30,37) and have a
permanent electrical automatic sprinkler system with
100% water coverage.
25m. Landscaping on the slope areas behind lots 40, 41, 42
of Tract 23988 -1 will be planted consistent with - -and
irrigation connected to -- Lincoln Avenue landscaping.
An easement shall be prepared over these slopes and
said easement shall dedicate the maintenance rights
to the City's Street Lighting & Maintenance District.
Chairwoman Brinley then called for Commission Comments as
follows:
Commissioner Gilenson requested changes as follows:
25k3. Give the developer the right to enter onto the
property through public right -of -way to do corrective
landscaping work and to lien the property to insure
proper payment, similar to the provision of the CC &
R's referred to above.
25m. Landscaping on the slope areas behind lots 40, 41,
42 of Tract 23988 -1 will be planted consistent
with- -and irrigation connected to -- Lincoln Avenue
and Terra Cotta Road landscaping. An easement shall
be prepared over these slopes and said easement
shall dedicate the maintenance rights to the City's
Street Lighting & Maintenance District.
Commissioner Sellevold expressed his concern in regard to block
walls on top of slopes with landscaping. He further stated
that although the conditions call for the developer to take
care of them for up to two years, it presents a problem after
that time for maintenance by the developer has expired.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 1, 1992
Page 4
Commissioner Gilenson stated that the City could be made a part
of certain portions of the CC & R's to make the property owners
maintain the landscaping with the city acting as the enforcing
agency.
Community Development Manager Shear explained that the City
Attorney had stated that being made part of the CC & R's was
not wise as it would put the City in the position of being
trapped in property owner disputes, and that it was not wise to
be the enforcing agency for private property owners.
Commissioner Sellevold stated that he would like to see the
slopes be Xeriscaped for low water maintenance and the property
owner made aware of this on lots 36, 15, 01, 56, 75, 13, 7, 8,
12, 50, 49, 43, 30, 37 and 48. Commissioner Sellevold further
expressed concern over the block walls on McVicker Channel
which is where the horse trail follow and two of the lots have
their front yards left unprotected from that trail. He felt
that this should be addressed by the developer.
Mr. Allday stated that they could bring a decorative wood fence
along the side of the yard starting at 5 1/2 feet and curving
and tapering down to 3 feet.
Commissioner Sellevold asked that Condition 25J. read as
follows:
25j. Xeriscape landscaping shall be required on all side
yards of all corner lots, (as follows T23988 lot #
36; T23988 -1 lots #15,01,56,75; T23988 -2 lot #13; T
23988 -3 lots #7, 8, 12, 50,49,43,30,37) and have a
permanent electrical automatic sprinkler system with
100% water coverage.
Commissioner Sellevold asked that there be a condition added
which reads as follows:
27a. There shall be a decorative wood fence along the side
yard starting at 5 1/2 feet curving and tapering
down to 3 feet on lot #12 of Tract 23988 -2 and lot #1
of Tract 23988 -3.
Commissioner Neff questioned condition no 34 which reads as
follows:
34. All second story windows shall be embellished with
window surrounds. All first floor elevations visible
from the public right -of -way shall be treated the
same.
Chairwoman Brinley explained that this was conditioned because
the neighbors can view each others homes from their back yards
and needs to be addressed for aesthetic purposes.
MOVED BY SELLEVOLD, SECONDED BY BULLARD AND CARRIED BY
UNANIMOUS VOTE TO APPROVE MINOR DESIGN REVIEW OF FOUR MODELS
FOR TRACT 23988 BASED UPON THE LISTED FINDINGS AND CONDITIONS
WITH MODIFICATIONS TO CONDITIONS AS FOLLOWS:
17. Prior to the issuance of building permits, the
applicant shall pay park -in -lieu fees in effect at
the time of building permit issuance on a lot by lot
basis, or meet the requirements through dedication
for parks: lot "C ", "D", "E ", and "G"
25j. Xeriscape landscaping shall be required on all side
yards of all corner lots, (as follows T23988 lot #
36; T23988 -1 lots #15,01,56,75; T23988 -2 lot #13; T
23988 -3 lots #7, 8, 12, 50,48,49,43,30,37) and have
permanent electrical automatic sprinkler system with
100% water coverage.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 1, 1992
Page 5
25k3. Give the developer the right to enter onto the
property through public right -of -way to do corrective
landscaping work and to lien the property to insure
proper payment, similar to the provision of the CC &
R's referred to above.
25m. Landscaping on the slope areas behind lots 40, 41,
42 of Tract 23988 -1 will be planted consistent
with - -and irrigation connected to -- Lincoln Avenue
and Terra Cotta Road landscaping. An easement shall
be prepared over these slopes and said easement
shall dedicate the maintenance rights to the City's
Street Lighting & Maintenance District.
27a. There shall be a decorative wood fence along the side
yard starting at 5 1/2 feet curving and tapering
down to 3 feet on lot #12 of Tract 23988 -2 and
lot #1 of Tract 23988 -3.
PLANNING COMMENTS:
Community Development Manager Shear welcomed the new Planning
Commissioners and extended congratulations to the new Planning
Chairman.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS:
Commissioner Sellevlod asked if staff could provide an update
on the landscaping of the Kids Club.
Chairwoman Brinley extended her congratulations to the new
Planning Commissioners and reminded the public of the 4th of
July concert which will feature Joe Diffy and Highway 101.
ADJOURNMENT:
MOVED BY BULLARD, SECONDED BY SELLEVOLD AND CARRIED BY
UNANIMOUS VOTE TO ADJOURN THE LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING
COMMISSION MEETING AT 8:10 P.M.
pproved,
Pamela A. Bri ley,
Chairwoman (((
R pectfully Subm
d4i4a(4ryn i9�
D eputy City Clerk
MINUTES
HELD ON THE
OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
15TH DAY OF
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
JULY 1992
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Gilenson.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Neff, Sellevold, and
Brinley
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: Bullard
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, City Planner
Christen, Associate Planner DeGange, and Engineering Manager
O'Donnell.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Sellevold to approve Minutes of July 1,
1992, second by Commissioner Neff.
Commissioner Gilenson asked for discussion, stating there is a
correction and we will probably have to check with our legal
counsel whether or not we have to bring back the Minutes of June
3rd and June 17th. The Minutes show that they were both seconded
by Commissioner Neff and carried by unanimous vote. Neither one
was present.
Chairwoman Brinley asked the secretary if this had been addressed
with the City Clerk, and how it is handled.
The Secretary responded this was discussed with the City Clerk and
the information received was that the new Commissioners could vote
on approving the minutes, however, they could not request any
modifications to the minutes.
Commissioner Gilenson asked who made that.
The Secretary responded that this was defined by the City Clerk.
Commissioner Gilenson stated that he spoke with Mr. Burns, Mr.
Harper's associate, and he said no - -they can not vote on it.
Chairwoman Brinley asked if previous Councils have not done the
same thing, approve and receive the minutes.
Commissioner Neff asked if we could go back and amend.
Commissioner Gilenson responded yeah, we can amend those changes.
According to Attorney Burns it has to be done, it can not be
accepted this way.
Commissioner Neff asked if we can amend to take off my name and
have another second in place of those.
Commissioner Gilenson responded right, then it would have to go 3-
0-2 would be the vote.
Chairwoman Brinley stated if you wish to amend, we can do that
then. Amend the minutes of June 3 and June 17, so moved to amend.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD AND SECOND BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY TO
APPROVE MINUTES OF JUNE 3, 1992.
APPROVED 3 -0 (COMMISSIONER NEFF AND BULLARD ABSTAINING)
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD AND SECOND BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY TO
APPROVE MINUTES OF JUNE 17, 1992.
APPROVED 3 -0 (COMMISSIONER NEFF AND BULLARD ABSTAINING)
Planning Commission Minutes
July 15, 1992
Page 2
MINUTE ACTION CONTINUED
Chairwoman Brinley stated there is a motion on the floor for the
approval of the Minutes of July 1, 1992, and asked for any further
discussion.
Commissioner Gilenson requested the following corrections:
Page 3 and Page 5, condition number 25k3, where it says "in
public right -of -way" believes it should say "through public
right -of -way ".
Chairwoman Brinley asked for any further discussion, receiving no
response she called for the question.
Approved 4 -0 (Commissioner Bullard absent)
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Mr. Roger D. LeClerc, 29370 Turnbull, stated he likes the way Lake
Elsinore is looking these days - -a resident here since just after
the flood. It looks like a more prosperous community than it did
then and sure it will continue. I have a building permit matter
before the city -- roofing my house and doing a skylight and it kind
of held up things. Submitted a drawing to the City and they may
have to make comments on it. It has been in there a week and I
haven't heard anything on it. Granted a week is not a long time,
but you don't meet every evening. If you would do me the favor,
just checking on me, see if everything is moving along as it
should.
Chairwoman Brinley informed Mr. LeClerc that this would be directed
to staff.
There being no further request to speak, Chairwoman Brinley closed
the PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Tentative Parcel Map 27033 and Zone Change 91 -7 - Mola
Development (Continued from June 17, 1992) - Associate Planner
DeGange presented a request for subdivision of 21.1 acres into
24 M -1 (Limited Manufacturing) zoned lots ranging in size from
20,085 to 84,750 square feet. This project constitutes a
change of zone of an 8 acre portion from R -1 (Single - Family
Residential) to M -1 (Limited Manufacturing) to bring this area
into conformance with the General Plan, located at the
southwest corner of Chaney Street and Minthorn, within the
Chaney Business Park.
Chairwoman Brinley opened the public hearing at 7:16 p.m.,
asking for those wishing to speak in favor.
Mr. Matt Kaufman, Mola Development, stated he would like to
commend staff on the staff report, and the way they have
worked with us through this project. He then stated that he
would like to address some of the concerns staff brought up in
the report, commenting as follows:
Floodplain - yes, we are in the floodplain. For light
industrial, office park depending on exactly what we end up
with after Business Park Zoning is put into place. Obviously,
there is a concern - -we mitigate it a couple of ways that would
alleviate concerns -- obviously, we will comply with Sections
15.68 and 15.64 of the Floodplain Management /Flood Prevention
Plans. Possible things that we do, raise site out of the
floodplain by importing, this is something that we address
Planning Commission Minutes
July 15, 1992
Page 3
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 27033 AND ZONE CHANGE 91 -7 CONTINUED
when we have a plan. In complying with the Floodplain
Management Plan, if that is the way we go and stay within the
floodplain, we will be mitigating by water proofing foundation
construction and a lot of water proof materials that will
alleviate any of those problems. Ideally, as staff pointed
out, right now Flood Control plans that with the improvement
of the Outflow Channel we will be lifted completely out of the
floodplain, and obviously that will happen after the FEMA maps
are revised, and that is what we are hoping. So, obviously,
we are very happy about that plan going through.
Adiacent to the Flood Control Channel (Outflow Channel)
When we first created this map we knew there were plans, plans
have been there for quite some time to do this channel, we are
glad it finally happened. The survey that was finally
recorded had been done previously, so we had a copy of the
Flood Control and Army Corp's Survey prior to beginning our
map so we took that into consideration with our map and our
map represents that. We are not interfering with Flood
Control's right -of -way.
Least Bell's Vireo Habitat
I want to state that I understand sensitivity - -it is an
endangered species within the City of Lake Elsinore and I
agree with the importance of doing these things. We did a
study in June based on comments from Flood Control and the
ornithologist, who was out there, concluded - -based on that day
and that study - -that the habitat was not sufficient, in his
mind, for the Vireo and I think it is stated - -those reasons
stated in the staff report. On the contrary, the habitat
adjacent to the property in the channel, and this was stated
by our consultant also, is more suitable for the Vireo. The
problem with waiting till next Spring for a study, staff has
stated February, March, April, could be April, May, June also,
is that it does hold us up. It is possible that this will not
hold us up because we are not ready to go at that point in
time and I also understand that.
The ornithologist has recommended to us that he feels that he
can go out through the end of July and do three more
studies /surveys on the site and feel fairly conclusive whether
there has been any nesting on the site, which is really the
key when looking at the habitat - -is the site suitable for
nesting, and he would also recommend that not only on our site
would he do these, but adjacent our site in the channel where
that habitat exists - -find out if there has been any nesting
adjacent to our site.
I would like to have Commission consider doing three more
studies through the end of the month and saying what the
results are and possibly foregoing a Spring Study. On the
other hand, I do understand the sensitivity to this issue.
Mr. Kaufman then commented on the following conditions and
requested clarification:
Condition No. 26 - which is about the Spring Survey. If
indeed Commission agrees that we need to do a Spring Survey- -
one thing that I would like to go forward with and need
clarification is with Design Review - -cause I don't really see
the relationship between the Design Review process and the
potential for a Vireo. Grading, obviously, is a different
story and I'm not sure if this condition states that we can't
Planning Commission Minutes
July 15, 1992
Page 4
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 27033 AND ZONE CHANGE 91 -7 CONTINUED
submit for Design Review till after we are done with the study
or we just can't get on the agenda for Design Review approval.
I don't want to begin the Design Review process, whether it is
7, 8 or 10 months from now, and then go through another 4
month process at that point in time. Since the City is sort
of on a pay for play, so to speak structure, if we went
through Design Review we would be the ones paying for it.
Additionally, if-- although we don't think the habitat is
suitable - -if Vireo were to be found the end of this month, or
in the Spring, or evidence of nesting we would have to
mitigate that.
Condition No. 27 - Final Map shall reflect plotting as
approved on plans date stamped February 14, 1992. This was
our submittal of the Tentative Map and need clarification on
this from Engineering. The Final Map will be final. The
Tentative Map obviously is not final ideally nothing will
change. Engineering wise there may be a little leeway, just
need this clarified.
Condition No. 50 - Until Street "D" is completed, secondary
access shall be provided by dedicated public right -of -way
subject to the approval of the City Engineer and Riverside
County Fire Department, need clarification. Believes this
condition stems from the fact, at one point, we were proposing
because our Street "D" which is adjacent to the channel was
going to not be developed until after the channel was
improved - -we are going to need another access. What we
initially proposed was Street "B" -- intersects Chaney temporary
access easement and staff, City Engineering and City Attorney
said we can't approve a temporary access easement so we did
convert it to a full public street, and need to confirm that's
what this condition is referring to.
Condition No. 20 - A decorative block or masonry wall shall be
constructed around the perimeter of the subdivision. We are
not in for Design Review. I don't know if that condition
means my entire subdivision is a block wall. Obviously,
fronting Chaney Street there is going to be, based on what we
think that business park zone will be, there will be some
storefront type office, light industrial buildings, but based
on taking this technically that is perimeter of the property.
I wonder if I am going to have a block wall in front of the
property. Obviously, Design Review is going to take a look at
our wall plan or wall design and condition us at that point in
time.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for anyone else wishing to speak in
favor. Receiving no response, she asked for opposition.
Hearing none, the public hearing was closed at 7:29 p.m.
Chairwoman Brinley asked Planning Staff to address the issues
on conditions 20 and 26, brought up by Mr. Kaufman.
Associate Planner DeGange stated with respect to condition
number 20, the applicant is correct in that this issue is
addressed at Design Review. However, it is a safeguard for
staff to ensure that the site is constructed with a decorative
block wall. We also add this condition at Design Review stage
and the actual design and plotting of the wall is not
determined until the project is actually proposed on the site.
Chairwoman Brinley asked if this was a standard condition.
Associate Planner DeGange responded in the affirmative.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 15, 1992
Page 5
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 27033 AND ZONE CHANGE 91 -7 CONTINUED
Commissioner Neff stated typically block walls are used for
residential projects. Not familiar with block walls for
industrial. Asked if there was precedence in the City to do
this.
Associate Planner DeGange responded in the affirmative. All
the industrial /commercial projects have the same condition - -it
is a standard condition.
Commissioner Neff asked if there was an alternative that might
present a softer look like a combination of landscaping.
Perhaps, a hedge type landscaping that would be more
attractive.
Associate Planner DeGange responded that option is always
available to the applicant when he proposed his fencing plan
at Design Review.
Commissioner Neff asked if that wouldn't be prohibited or
limited by virtue of language in here - -that could be an
alternative.
Associate Planner DeGange stated another alternative would be
the use of combination wrought iron or any combination there
of. With respect to condition number 26, staff would have to
stand by the condition as written. He then asked that Mr.
Kaufman restate his concern.
Mr. Kaufman stated that he needs clarification on whether this
condition is saying that he cannot submit Design Review until
the study, or I just can't have a hearing on Design Review.
Associate Planner DeGange stated the condition does not mean
this it all. It means that when an initial study is done in
conjunction with an application for Design Review the study
would be required at that time.
Mr. Kaufman asked if are you saying that if I were to submit
plans in to the City tomorrow for Design Review I could do
that.
Associate Planner DeGange responded in the affirmative, and
stated that the condition could be altered to clearly state
that.
Chairwoman Brinley commented on amending condition number 26,
to include the process of being able to go before Design
Review.
Associate Planner DeGange stated that he believes condition
number 26 does state that because it says prior to the
approval of any Design Review application. It does not say
prior to submittal of any Design Review application.
Commissioner Gilenson asked why don't you just drop the first
part, don't even talk about Design Review - -prior to issuance
of grading permit.
Associate Planner DeGange responded that there are instances
when Design Review may come in prior to pulling grading
permits or vice - versa. It is a safeguard, in order to make
sure whatever the first approval or the first aspect of the
project, which would require moving dirt or any other project
other than final map approval, that issue needs to be
Planning Commission Minutes
July 15, 1992
Page 6
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 27033 AND ZONE CHANGE 91 -7 CONTINUED
addressed. The two ways that a project is conducted on that
site is either with a grading permit or a development project,
so we are just making sure that we have that covered. If he
comes in with the grading first, we would require a Spring
Survey. If he were to come in with a Design Review
application first, then we would require a Spring Survey. It
is just to make sure both bases are covered.
Chairwoman Brinley commented, but he could submit one.
Associate Planner DeGange responded certainly - -he could also
submit an application for grading permit.
Chairwoman Brinley asked Mr. Kaufman if this clarified the
condition for him. Mr. Kaufman responded in the affirmative.
Chairwoman Brinley asked Engineering Staff to address the
issues on conditions 27 and 50, brought up by Mr. Kaufman.
Engineering Manager O'Donnell stated that he believes that
condition number 27 is, Planning Department making an
interpretation of the Map Act. All it is saying is that the
final map has to be in compliance with the tentative map. You
can take it out if you want, it doesn't have to be in there,
you can delete.
Chairwoman Brinley stated she believed that Mr. Kaufman just
wanted clarification, correct?
Mr. Kaufman asked that the condition be re- written to: "per
the Subdivision Map Act the final map shall be in compliance
with the tentative map."
It was the consensus of the Commission that condition number
27 be amended as requested by the applicant.
Mr. O'Donnell stated with regard to condition number 50,
heard your response, but didn't quite understand your
interpretation of it. Referring to the posted map, "D" Street
along the channel - -are you saying that you are using - -your
secondary access until "D" Street get completed as "B" Street
your only access, is this what you are talking about here?
Mr. Kaufman responded that is correct; with an emergency
access which was required by the Riverside County Fire
Department.
Mr. O'Donnell stated that our condition says that this has to
be dedicated public right -of -way not a temporary easement.
The reason is, this map is being phased and when the first
phase goes through things might be fine, but as the second
phase or later phases go on things might go wrong with this
project. There may be some financial problems and this could
stay like this for a long time, and somebody else could buy
that and we want this as dedicated right -of -way on phase 1 or
phase 2, and then when they develop phase 2 dedicate it back
to the City and not leave it as an easement. But we don't
want it temporary in case something should happen and a new
owner should come in or phase 2 never gets developed or gets
developed differently than what is shown on that map.
Chairwoman Brinley recognized Mr. Kaufman.
Mr. Kaufman responded this is fine; just needed it stated
implicitly, that everybody understands that that will be
Planning Commission Minutes
July 15, 1992
Page 7
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 27033 AND ZONE CHANGE 91 -7 CONTINUED
vacated at such time as "D" Street is built. I don't want to
loose a lot if the City says that is a dedicated right -of -way
you can't vacate it and I have just lost a very large lot on
the site.
Mr. O'Donnell stated that all we want is to make sure - -there
being a commercial secondary access in case something happens
and, as far making guarantees, if that map gets filed and
completed the way it is there shouldn't be a problem.
Mr. Kaufman asked that the condition be amended so that it
states once "D" Street is completed the secondary access will
be vacated.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for discussion at the table.
Commissioner Gilenson commented on the following:
Condition 20 - as Commissioner Neff stated, I don't think this
belongs in a tentative map as a condition. If Commission
wants to leave it fine. I want it on the record that I am
against a walled in fortress for business park. There should
be other options besides walling it in, making it look like a
prison yard.
Condition 26 - I don't think that we should keep the developer
hostage for a 9 -12 month period. I see no problem with
developing the project, all but the six acre area adjacent to
the wash. I see no problem with striking the words "the
approval of any Design Review application or" and leaving it
read: "prior to the issuance of any grading permit on the site
a Spring Biological survey shall be conducted ", if that is the
way the Commission wants to go, or similar to that, and
allowing development on the project all but the six acre area
adjacent to the wash, including grading.
Commissioner Sellevold commented on the following:
Condition 26 - thinks it should be left the way it is. The
six acres that we are talking about has never been looked at,
and the way it was stated tonight is, that these birds only
come in three months a year. So, if we don't really know that
they don't nest there, then I would say - -if we knew positively
that they don't nest there that would be fine. But we don't
know that and, until we find that out, I would have to say
that this would have to stay in just the way it is stated. I
don't see any other way around it, and I don't see the City
holding them hostage. If they were ready to go tomorrow we
would still be pretty much within 1 or 2 months of anything
happening.
The developer had mentioned something about importing -- raising
the grade for the floodplain. I would just like to see if
that is feasible.
Mr. O'Donnell stated in Floodplain Management, if you are
within the 100 -Year Floodplain you have to get approval to put
fill in the 100 -Year Floodplain, cause what you are doing is
filling the 100 -Year Floodplain and the flood is going
somewhere else,; so you are really affecting someone else and
you couldn't do that unless there is proof that it is not
affecting somebody else and that is almost impossible. So, no
he could not just come in and fill that in above the flood -
plain.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 15, 1992
Page 8
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 27033 AND ZONE CHANGE 91 -7 CONTINUED
Commissioner Neff stated that his comments also address
condition 20 and 26. I concur with Commissioner Gilenson, in
that philosophically, I think an industrial or office related -
-even if it is an RD site, is better presented to the
community with decorative landscaping rather than a block
wall. on a residential project that may be a little different
story. The other thing that drives my thought or philosophy
about that is you have an income producing asset typically,
where you can have landscaping that will be maintained by the
owner of that income producing asset; with a residential
tract, on the other hand, where you have common property that
is left over after you sell off each of the parcels it is a
little more difficult to control; so I would suggest, if staff
doesn't take objection, to making some amendments to 20 to
allow alternative use of landscaping subject to Design Review
approval. He then suggested the following language: after
the word "wall" add "and /or alternative use of landscaping
subject to the discretion of the Design Review Board ".
Condition 26 - I concur also with Commissioner Gilenson
insofar as - -the concern really from the developers
perspective - -if you start moving dirt you are going to upset
the habitat, so you can do anything you want to up until
moving dirt. So, if you read this literally, it protects you
from - -even if you leave it in you are still protected. You
could phase the project, hold back the 6 acre development and
develop the other side first and that would work too. Another
thought on this is, Mr. Kaufman mentioned earlier on himself,
he is taking the risk, if he is going to submit for Design
Review and it gets approved, or whatever reason sometimes you
can agree to - -in other communities they will have, for
example, a statement that you as a builder will sign if you
want to make a concurrent submittal for Design Review, for
Planning review or even building permit issuance, that you are
rolling the dice and just by submittal does not guarantee
approval and that should be clear to the applicant, that is
not a guarantee. Bottom line on 26, I'm indifferent, you can
leave it the way it is or modify. I think that it
accomplishes what needs to be protected.
Chairwoman Brinley stated that her concern was also on 26 and
would like to see the condition stand. I understand that
there would be no problem with him coming forth with Minor
Design Review. There would be no grading or anything else.
I think this is a sensitive issue here -- environmental with the
Bell's Vireo. Am I assuming correctly when I say that this is
part of the Negative Declaration - -it has to be done, correct?
Associate Planner DeGange responded in the affirmative, and
stated that there is a mitigation measure added in the
Negative Declaration.
Commissioner Neff stated that the applicant mentioned that
there is a mitigation alternative, curious to know what that
is for the Vireo.
Mr. Kaufman stated that obviously this would be addressed if
we found the Vireo, but typically you would replace. River-
side County Flood Control is replacing 17 acres that they are
disrupting in the channel area, so they have to find a 17 acre
area and replace, I believe on a 1 to 1 or 3 to 1 basis. You
can often contribute to a program that somebody else is doing.
You have to replace, typically that is what happens.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 15, 1992
Page 9
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 27033 AND ZONE CHANGE 91 -7 CONTINUED
Chairwoman Brinley reiterated the changes to be made to
condition 20 - after the word "wall" add "and /or alternative
use of landscaping subject to the discretion of the Design
Review Board ".
Chairwoman Brinley asked for any further discussion. There
being no further discussion, she called for a motion and asked
that separate motions be made for the Mitigated Negative
Declaration, Zone Change and Tentative Parcel Map.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
ADOPTION OF MITIGATED NEGATIVE DECLARATION 92 -3, SECOND BY
COMMISSIONER NEFF.
APPROVED 4 -0 (COMMISSIONER BULLARD ABSENT)
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
APPROVAL OF ZONE CHANGE 91 -7, BASED ON THE FINDINGS LISTED IN
THE STAFF REPORT, SECOND BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY.
APPROVED 4 -0 (COMMISSIONER BULLARD ABSENT)
MOTION BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
APPROVAL OF TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 27033 BASED ON THE FINDINGS
AND SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF
REPORT AND AMENDMENTS:
Condition No. 20: A decorative block or masonry wall and /or
alternative use of landscaping subject to
the discretion of the Design Review
Board, shall be constructed around the
perimeter of the subdivision. Precise
design, materials and location to be
determined through Minor Design Review
process.
Condition No. 27: Per the Subdivision Map Act the final map
shall be in compliance with the tentative
map.
Condition No. 50: Until Street "D" is completed, secondary
access shall be provided by dedicated
public right -of -way subject to the
approval of the City Engineer and
Riverside County Fire Department.
Minimum width of secondary access shall
be 30 feet. Once "D" Street is completed
the secondary access will be vacated.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
APPROVED 3 -1 (COMMISSIONER GILENSON VOTING NO AND COMMISSIONER
BULLARD ABSENT)
Conditional Use Permit 92 -4 - Keith R. Liston (Gene R. Bouch)-
Continued from June 17, 1992 - Community Development Manager
Shear stated that staff is recommending withdrawn, and at the
time the applicant submits new plans we will reschedule.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD AND SECOND BY COMMISSIONER
NEFF, THAT CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 92 -4, 29540 CENTRAL AVENUE,
BE WITHDRAWN AND RESCHEDULED AT THE TIME OF RESUBMITTAL.
Approved 4 -0
Planning Commission Minutes
July 15, 1992
Page 10
3. Zone Code Amendment 92 -2 - City of Lake Elsinore - Community
Development Manager Shear detailed this item, explaining the
changes or deletions that were made to Section 17.94, Signs.
Chairwoman Brinley opened the public hearing at 7:53 p.m.,
asking for those wishing to speak in favor.
Ms. Cheryl Robbins, Riverside County Building Industry
Association (BIA), stated the Riverside County Chapter of the
BIA has submitted a proposal for the new home directional sign
program for the City of Lake Elsinore. We feel this would
eliminate proliferation, the crowding up of intersections and
possibly even traffic problems. Basically, we would like to
enter into a contract with the City to manufacture, erect,
maintain, repair and replace directional signage. We would
also like to offer the City community service signs, placing
them at either end of the City Limits, these would show the
Civic Center, City Hall, Fire Department, Police Department,
services such as that.
Ms. Robbins stated the BIA has five counties they represent,
25 -30 cities in these counties, and these cities have never
asked us to put a cash deposit, per sign or per structure, to
ensure compliance with the ordinance; therefore, in talking
with staff and staff concurs, we would like to have 5.d. on
page 9 of the ordinance stricken. She then detailed the
procedure, explaining they go for an encroachment permit for
each location, and wanted to state for the record that
hopefully we can get this stricken from the ordinance.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for anyone else wishing to speak in
favor. Receiving no response, she asked for opposition.
Hearing none, the public hearing was closed at 7:59 p.m.
Commissioner Gilenson stated he has a lot of questions and
requested a continuance, in lieu of spending a lot of time
going through the changes, and that a study group be formed
between staff, City Attorney and whoever on the Commission, to
make these changes, go through them and bring it back to the
Commission at the next meeting.
Chairwoman Brinley asked staff to address the issue brought up
by Ms. Robbins.
Community Development Manager Shear stated that Ms. Robbins
did discuss this with him, and concurs. This $500 cash
deposit is throughout the ordinance for other temporary
signage. This program is unique because it is in the City
right -of -way and we do have the right to go in and remove a
sign at any time, so this regulation is not necessary.
Commissioner Sellevold inquired whether this would apply to
everyone affected by this.
Community Development Manager Shear responded anybody who is
affected by this sign code in the public right -of -way area.
Basically, this section only deals with that kiosk program.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for a motion to continue this item to
the meeting of August 5, 1992, putting together a small
committee to work with staff, which shall consist of:
Commissioner Gilenson and Commissioner Neff to meet with staff
and go over the issues.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON AND SECOND BY COMMISSIONER NEFF
TO CONTINUE ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 92 -2 TO THE MEETING OF AUGUST
5, 1992. (COMMISSIONER BULLARD ABSENT)
Approved 4 -0
Planning Commission Minutes
July 15, 1992
Page 11
BUSINESS ITEMS
NONE
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
Associate Planner DeGange stated a copy of the Draft Standards for
the Central Business District has been handed out to each Commis-
sioner. This item will be before the Commission on August 15.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Neff
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Sellevold
Nothing to report.
Chairman Brinley
Thanked the City for the fireworks and entertainment that we had
over the 4th.
Commissioner Bullard
Absent
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 8:01 p.m., motion by Commissioner Neff,
second by Commissioner Sellevold.
Approved 4 -0
F Secrectfully ubmitted,
Gri dstaff
tar
MINUTES OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE 5TH DAY OF AUGUST 1992
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Bullard.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Neff, Sellevold, Bullard
and Brinley
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: None
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, City Planner
Christen, Associate Planner DeGange, Assistant Planner Villa, and
Engineering Manager O'Donnell.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Sellevold to approve Minutes of July 15,
1992, as submitted, second by Commissioner Neff.
Approved 5 -0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no request to speak, Chairwoman Brinley closed the
PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Zone Code Amendment 92 -1 - City of Lake Elsinore (Continued
from July 1, 1992) - Chairwoman Brinley stated that the
public hearing on this item was opened and closed with
testimony received on July 1, 1992, she then asked staff for
an update.
Associate Planner DeGange detailed this item, explaining the
amendment to Section 17.11, establishing a Central Business
Overlay District, and providing Design Standards. He then
stated that Mr. Ballew is present and will answer any
questions the Commission may have.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for discussion at the table.
Commissioners Neff, Bullard and Sellevold stated they had no
comment.
Commissioner Gilenson commented as follows:
Section 17.11.030. Permitted Uses
Density of the same or similar use, against
this provision as it limits /restricts the free
enterprise system.
Section 17.11.050. Design Review Committee
Does not feel City Council should be on this
committee, if they are the appellate board
that would handle appeals.
Does not feel the board itself should be
appointed by City Council, but by the Downtown
Business Association; thereby taking the
control away from the City Council, since they
are the appellate board hearing any appeals.
Suggested the last sentence be changed to: The
Downtown Business Association shall retain the
right to remove and replace committee members
Planning Commission Minutes
August 5, 1992
Page 2
Zone Code Amendment 92 -1 Continued
for cause, notwithstanding the terms set out
herein, subject to appeal to the City Council.
And, throughout that section where it talks
about the committee being appointed by City
Council would like Downtown Business
Association substituted and another member of
some other organization appointed in lieu of
the City Councilmember.
Section 17.11.070 Subsection C Compliance with Standards
Suggested this be changed to read: "The Design
Review Board may grant one extension equal to
the initial term upon showing of financial
hardship by the applicant."
Chairwoman Brinley stated she would like to see the Ordinance
remain as written and presented. She then commented on
Councilmembers being elected officials of the City, and
appointed to serve on these committees.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for any further discussion,
receiving no response she called for a motion.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BULLARD TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
APPROVAL OF ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 92 -1, AMENDING SECTION 17.11,
CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT OVERLAY AND ESTABLISHMENT OF THE
CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT DESIGN STANDARDS, AS PRESENTED AND
BASED UPON THE FINDINGS LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT, SECOND BY
COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
Approved 4 -1 (Commissioner Gilenson voting no)
2. Zone Code Amendment 92 -2 - City of Lake Elsinore (Continued
from July 15, 1992) - Chairwoman Brinley stated the public
hearing on this item was opened and closed with testimony
received on July 15, 1992, and a committee formed to work with
staff to go over the issues raised. She then asked staff for
an update.
Community Development Manager Shear stated staff and the
committee met and discussed the concerns raised. The Sign
Code has been revised to incorporate all concerns with the
exception of the Freeway Identification Pole Signs.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for discussion at the table.
Commissioner Bullard stated he had no comment.
Commissioner Neff commented on the freeway identification
signs and the master sign program -- whether this is in terms of
the design of the sign or the number and location, and
inquired about the existing program.
Community Development Manager Shear stated the issue was
whether freeway identification signs, with pole signs, should
have a master sign program to dictate the number of signs. The
existing section requires freeway identification signs to come
before the Planning Commission, review of design and place-
ment. He then referred to the section and detailed the
requirements.
Commissioner Sellevold asked what Commissioner Gilenson wants
added to this section.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 5, 1992
Page 3
Zone Code Amendment 92 -2 Continued
Commissioner Gilenson responded that he is not sure if it
would be worded in here or the master sign program when
submitted, but an easement for the other tenants to be able to
use the sign and maintain it, so that we don't have the
problems that we are having now.
Commissioner Sellevold commented on this falling under the
sign program for the location.
Commissioner Gilenson commented as follows:
Page 14, Subsection H, does this stop the use
of can signs, as we have done on Page 16,
subsection C.3. Can we do the same thing with
H.1?
Discussion ensued on suspended or projected signs and amending
these subsections by adding the following language, H.1: "a
maximum of 1 to 2 inches in thickness "; subsection C.3: "no
thicker than 3 inches ".
Chairwoman Brinley stated she had no comments, and called for
a motion.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BULLARD TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
APPROVAL OF ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 92 -2, AMENDING SECTION 17.94
OF THE LAKE ELSINORE MUNICIPAL CODE, WITH THE FOLLOWING
AMENDMENTS:
17.94.170.H.1: A maximum of one (1) such sign per
building frontage is permitted provided
that it is perpendicular to the main face
of the building and suspended from a
canopy or projects not more than three
feet (31) from the building face, and a
maximum of 1 to 2 inches in thickness;
17.94.190.C.3: Signs shall be attached to the building
or canopy, parallel to the building face.
No portion of any sign or its supporting
structure, may project more than six
inches (611) from the face of the building
or structure nor exceed 3 inches in
thickness, to which it is attached;
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER NEFF.
Commissioner Gilenson asked for further discussion, stating
that he would be voting no on this subject to any recommen-
dation not to change subsection "I" into a master sign
program.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for any further discussion,
receiving no response she called for the question.
Approved 4 -1 (Commissioner Gilenson voting no)
3. North Peak Development Agreement - TMC - Chairwoman Brinley
stated that staff is requesting this item be continued to the
meeting of August 19, 1992 and called for a motion.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER NEFF TO CONTINUE THE NORTH PEAK
DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT TO THE MEETING OF AUGUST 19, 1992,
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
Approved 5 -0
Planning Commission Minutes
August 5, 1992
Page 4
BUSINESS ITEMS
4. Single - Family Residence 359 Avenue 4 - Inland Pacific Group
(Peery & Berzansky) - Assistant Planner Villa presented a
proposal to construct a one - story, 1,231 square foot, single -
family dwelling.
Chairwoman Brinley asked if there was anyone representing the
applicant. Messrs. Perry & Berzanky stated they concur with
staff recommendation.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for discussion at the table. There
being no discussion, she called for a motion.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD TO APPROVE SINGLE - FAMILY
RESIDENCE AT 359 AVENUE 4 BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO
THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT, SECOND
BY COMMISSIONER BULLARD.
Approved 5 -0
PLANNING DEPARTMENT °S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Neff
Received a letter dated June 30, 1992, regarding annexation of
Laguna Heights, and asked staff to provide him with an update.
The Joint Study Session was very useful, and the grading study done
by the City Planner was thorough and well presented. If we could
have more communications like that I think it would be to the
betterment of the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Bullard
The Joint Study Session was very educational.
Thanked the School District for the use of the facilities.
Commissioner Sellevold
Thanked the School District for the use of the facilities.
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Chairman Brinley
Thanked the School District for the use of the facilities, and
thanked John for his help and assistance.
The Joint Study Session was excellent, the communication was there,
and would like to see these happen on a regular basis.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 5, 1992
Page 5
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 7:30 p.m., motion by Chairwoman Brinley,
second by Commissioner Sellevold.
Approved 5 -0
Resp ctfully S mitted,
Linda Grin taff
Secretary
App owed,
Pamela Brinley
Chairwoman
MINUTES OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE 19TH DAY OF AUGUST 1992
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Chairwoman Brinley.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Neff, Sellevold, Bullard
and Brinley
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: None
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, City Planner
Christen, Community Services Director Watenpaugh, Attorney Burns,
Associate Planner DeGange, Assistant Planner Villa, and Engineering
Manager O'Donnell.
MINUTE ACTION
Motion by Commissioner Neff to approve Minutes of August 5, 1992,
as submitted, second by Commissioner Bullard.
Approved 5 -0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no request to speak, Chairwoman Brinley closed the
PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. North Peak Development Agreement - TMC (Continued from August
5, 1992) - City Planner Christen presented an agreement
between the City of Lake Elsinore and TMC Communities
regarding the development of 1,964 acres. Said development
includes a multi phased combined residential and commercial
Specific Plan consisting of 4,621 dwelling units and 32 acres
of commercial development. The project site is bounded by
Steele Valley to the north, Wasson Canyon to the east, State
Highway 74 to the south and E1 Toro Road to the west.
Chairwoman Brinley opened the public hearing at 7:12 p.m.,
asking for anyone wishing to speak in favor.
Mr. Brian Myers, Vice President of TMC Communities, gave a
brief background report on this item and associated proposals,
and commented on the public benefits to the City and its
residents: off -site infrastructure, road improvements, park
site improvements, fire station improvements and feasibility
studies.
Mr. Myers stated their only concern is with the improvements
to the Nature Park. He then gave a brief history on the
negotiations on this agreement and the improvements offered
and settled upon, which included the park improvement and
development fees, and the Nature Park was not one of those.
We felt that in our work with staff, Dick Watenpaugh of the
Parks Department, that the money would be best spent on the
central public parks, which would be the most active use of
the community and that is where we applied those dollars.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for anyone else wishing to speak in
favor. Receiving no response, she asked for those opposed.
Mrs. Virginia Neira, then submitted to the Commission a copy
of her concerns and a letter from the Sierra Club San Gorgonio
Chapter, with regard to the North Peak project. She then
Planning Commission Minutes
August 19, 1992
Page 2
NORTH PEAK DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT CONTINUED
commented as follows:
The area has been rural residential for a long time
consisting of mostly open land, few ranchos and spotty
developments and has provided affordable housing;
Objects to the phrase reduction of development standards;
We could get carports rather than garages;
We could get smaller lots than specified in the Specific
Plan, which are already small. No percentage
relationship factor is given; a minimum of 25% should be
required at either end with the balance in the middle for
an equitable mix. If any reduction is to be made it
should be in the total dwelling figure of 4,621 which
will double the city's existing population. A
reduction factor of at least 10 percent for dwelling
units allowed by the developer should be written into the
agreement to give the city and its residents some
leverage in controlling and maintaining the density;
Would like to see more specific provision for bicycle and
horse trails;
Inventory of 6,000 acres previously annexed to the City.
It has been the intent of the State of discourage urban
sprawl. This project will result in a local increase in
housing stock of 5,369 units;
The Specific Plan locates lower density residential uses
and open space along the perimeter of the project, this
is favorable. This should be made clear as some drawings
show otherwise;
Active Parks given at 49 acres. Parks adjacent to
schools - 15 acres, with three schools this is only 5
acres to be shared with school kids and the community.
Green areas surrounding schools should not be counted
unless the area is more than 15 acres;
Nature Park at 20% credit. This is a mitigation area for
the Kangaroo rat and a few rare plants. The land for
this was obtained from a BLM swap within the North Peak
boundary. It is questionable that this credit should be
allowed;
If you count the 15 acres of parks adjacent to schools
and 46 acres of nature parks the count is 61 acres that
should not be counted as park area. A rural environment
should have parks on the positive side, at least one good
size park of 40 acres or more. The 14 acre park in the
first phase hillside area is too small, this park should
be enlarged as this area is to serve as the gateway to
North Peak;
Ortega Trail was taken from the current management of the
County to management by the City. In doing this we don't
know the true future of these trails;
Visual impacts, the project will significantly impact the
visual views of this area. Fill depths of up to 80 feet
are planned as well as cuts in hills up to 60 feet.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 19, 1992
Page 3
NORTH PEAK DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT CONTINUED
Chairwoman Brinley informed Mrs. Niera that she had exceeded
her time limit and asked that she conclude her comments. She
also asked that Mrs. Niera leave her comments with the
Secretary and informed her that they would be included as part
of her testimony.
Mrs. Niera stated that this is a very lengthy document and
expressed concern on the amount of time given for public
testimony. She then stated in conclusion, they are concerned
property owners and would like to point out that this is an
environmentally sensitive area with development density
limitations. I am very concerned about the density, alignment
of the roads.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for anyone else wishing to speak in
opposition. Receiving no response, she asked for anyone
wishing to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, the
public hearing was closed at 7:26 p.m.
Commissioner Bullard commented on the following:
• Fire station - to be started at the 1,900 residential
building permit, this is at Phase III. Would like to ask
Mr. Myers if this could be moved into Phase II, as there
will be 1,899 homes built out there without fire
protection.
Feasibility Study on Page 8, we have under school sites
4.1.3, we have no mention of Junior High School or Middle
Schools. Would like to see something added on this.
Mr. Myers stated that he would like to address the fire
station; during the Environmental Impact Report (EIR) and
Specific Plan process we spent a lot of time with the fire
district and came up with a calculation, they sent us a letter
specifying the number of units at which they wanted a fire
station built. The land that they want the fire station in is
in Phase III and there will not be road in until we get into
Phase III. However, unit count, which is your concern, was
addressed specifically with the Fire Department and that is
where the calculation came from. Also, there was a
requirement from the Fire District that we provide funding for
three - quarters of a fire station. We have agreed to build
the whole fire station and fully equip it, as well. That is
the basis for how we determine how and when the fire station
would be delivered.
Mr. Myers stated that as far as the school site, we went
through the same process. During the EIR and Specific Plan
process we met extensively with the School District; came up
with the generation requirements and what type of school they
require for a site, and this is what they came up with - -three
elementary schools. We have concurrence with them on the
types of schools located there, and we now have a mitigation
agreement with the School District on the first phase of our
project, for the first elementary school in which we meet
their funding requirements.
Commissioner Sellevold commented on the following:
• Nature Park - Commissioner Gilenson wanted to grade,
hydroseed, and irrigate. How soon will the Nature Park
be in place, timing?
Planning Commission Minutes
August 19, 1992
Page 4
NORTH PEAK DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT CONTINUED
Mr. Myers responded that this would be about seven (7) years
out. Also, the Active Use Parks in the first phase are
required to be built before the first model complex opens, so
there will be a 14 acres Active Park built fairly rapidly.
• Asked Commissioner Gilenson if there is a reason why we
would want these irrigated, this is a Nature Park and
would like to see it left natural. Do you want the whole
area hydroseeded?
Commissioner Gilenson responded just where it is going to be
turf. It calls for turfing now.
Mr. Myers responded that Commissioner Gilenson is correct,
according to the conditions of the Specific Plan. There is a
requirement to provide for 25 acres of easily accessible area
for public park. Would rather see these dollars allocated to
the Active Use Parks. If there is an issue with the
improvements on the Nature Park, that the entire Commission
would like to see, we can re- allocate some of those dollars to
see improvements done on the Nature Park, as well. As I
stated earlier, would like to see the agreement stay the way
it is, providing for full improvement on the Active Parks
which I believe the public benefits more from, and the Nature
Park staying more natural.
Commissioner Gilenson stated that his comment on that - -to
answer your question, why that is in there - -was specifically
as Mr. Myers stated. The Specific Plan does call for turfing
of the entire 25 acre area, and if it is going to be turfed I
want it graded, hydroseeded and irrigated, so that it stays
green.
Mr. Myers stated the Specific Plan condition says that it
should be available for those uses. Basically, it leaves it
up to the City and what you would like done with that 25 acres
of dedicated use. We had put in a list of potential uses,
which included: tot lots, picnic benches, park courses and
turfed areas, but it is stated that there is a potential for
public.
• Asked Community Services Director Watenpaugh, if it is a
Nature Park and we are going to leave it, and there is
really no money set aside for improvements and upkeep,
except for maybe walkways - -how are we going to irrigate
it without taking money away from the other parks?
Community Services Director Watenpaugh responded that what we
have done with TMC is to negotiate public usage of privately
owned and maintained facilities. They are getting credit for
Quimby Fees so they meet their total requirement for park
dedication. The public will get use of the 25 acres of this
but the general public, the City Assessment, is not going to
be paying for the maintenance of it. The intent, I believe,
of Council was to provide for some passive uses. I do not
believe the intent was to turf the 25 acres. He then detailed
the Quimby requirements, and the benefits the city is getting
up front.
Commissioner Sellevold stated that he would not want to take
away the money to improve something that is to be natural.
Commissioner Gilenson commented on the following:
• Page 28, Section 13.3 and how this relates to Section
Planning Commission Minutes
August 19, 1992
Page 5
NORTH PEAK DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT CONTINUED
13.1. On 13. 1, if the City is in default we are not
excused from performance. In section 13.3, if the
developer is in default he still doesn't have to perform.
So it is a win -win for the developer on these two
sections. Would like to see one of these sections
changed so that they conform.
Page 33, Section 18.1.2 calls for Public Liability
insurance in the amount of one million for injuries to
any one person and one million of any one occurrence.
Would like to see this changed whereby the one million
per person would stay, but five million aggregate per
occurrence.
Page 7, Development Agreement Fees, asked that staff go
over those fees again, and asked why this is being
changed.
City Planner Christen reiterated the scheduling for the DAG
fees, and stated that we are trying to standardize the
increments, when it accelerates.
Letters from the Sierra Club San Gorgonio Chapter and
Mrs. Virginia Neira, there are some legal questions and
requested -- hopefully this can be done during a break,
that legal counsel review, as we were just handed this
before the meeting.
• Page 28, Section 13.3 and Section 13.1,
defaults and remedies -- can go over this with
the Attorney and Commission during a break, or
however the Attorney wants to handle.
Attorney Burns stated that it would be appropriate for him to
review and speak individually with members, but would caution
members about discussing this among themselves during a break,
might be a violation of the Brown Act.
Chairwoman Brinley asked Mr. Burns if he has a problem with
taking a break and reviewing the documents and then
discussing. Mr. Burns responded in the negative.
Chairwoman Brinley stated that at this point would take the
remainder of Commission comments and then take a 15 minute
break.
Commissioner Neff commented on the following:
• Lot count and mix, and asked that Mr. Myers provide
additional information on lot count by size.
Mr. Myers stated the entire Specific Plan area has a gross
density of approximately 2.2 units to the acre. What we did
through the Specific Plan process is to say we would like to
cluster development in certain areas. Our goal was to cluster
the higher density units in the center of each one of these
village cores, as identified in the past, and to surround the
perimeter of the project closer to the open space and rural
residential with lower density residential units. He then
stated that he could not provide information on lot count by
size as they have only now provided specific site planning on
the first phase. He then gave the following examples for
the first phase, a single - family residential a minimum lot
size of 5,500 foot lots and a 64 unit subdivision the average
lot size is 7,700 maximum lot size 16,200. A 5,000 square
Planning Commission Minutes
August 19, 1992
Page 6
NORTH PEAK DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT CONTINUED
A 5,000 square foot minimum lot size in a 134 units has an
average lot size of 6,500 feet and a maximum of 18,000.
Mr. Myers stated that his attorney is with him and asked if
they could meet with city counsel regarding the item that
Commissioner Gilenson brought up.
Nexus between DAG fees and the use to which it will be
put, but will defer to the attorneys and staff who
studied that at length.
Commissioner Bullard stated his concerns have been raised by
the other Commissioners.
At this time 7:52 p.m., Chairwoman Brinley called for a 15
minute recess, allowing the attorney to confer and then come
back to the table for discussion. The Commission reconvened
at 8:06 p.m.
Chairwoman Brinley asked Mr. Burns to address the Commission.
Mr. Burns commented on the letter from the Sierra Club San
Gorgonio Chapter and what some of the acronyms refer to,
apparently, it is the Riverside County Habitat Conservation
Area, but it has to do with the Steven's Kangaroo Rat habitat
area. I understand that the environmental certification
happened long ago and it is not an issue with development.
The Development Agreement is in compliance with the EIR that
was previously certified and the statute of limitation has run
on that, this is my understanding.
Mr. Burns stated that on the termination, 13.1 talks about- -
the City cannot terminate or take action as if to hold up
improvements while they are in default, but still subject to
their cure period. We have to allow them the cure period to
bring themselves back into compliance. Default by the City,
13.3, states that the City agrees the developer -- obligated to
proceed while City is failing to comply and that is because
there would be an uncertainty at that time. Really, the
City's rights are in 13.2 and that does provide for certain
remedies in which the City can find default after it hold
appropriate hearing and gives due process. There are
different avenues and some are specified in the Development
Agreement statutes and that calls for a hearing to allow the
developer some input before we do terminate them and then
there is a standard of review, and then later there is a
procedure for the developer if he disagrees to challenge the
City in court.
Chairwoman Brinley commented on the following:
• Asked that Community Services Director Watenpaugh address
the 20 percent credit listed in Mrs. Niera's letter.
Community Services Director Watenpaugh stated as to the City's
direction or the way we looked at it, in regards to the credit
for the 25 acre of land that the Council and the Specific Plan
addressed and they said that they would allow park credit
against that. Part of the feeling there was that it would be
usable by the public not an obligation to maintain necessarily
by the public and secondly, in trade -off we are also getting
3.6 million dollars plus the 49 acres of developed active
lands. Our park -in -lieu fee allows us to collect 5 acres per
1,000 population and that is 74 acres based on calculations,
based on that 49 acres of active use in those locations plus
Planning Commission Minutes
August 19, 1992
Page 7
NORTH PEAK DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT CONTINUED
the 25 acres meets the Quimby requirements.
Mr. Watenpaugh stated that with regard to the Ortega Trails,
believes the intent or the concern was that the City be
conscious of the equestrian trails and the plan that has been
adopted by the County. The City Council, when they addressed
the first or second development agreement, their policy and
discussion was that they would follow and accept and deal with
the primary trail system, which is the Regional Trails that
was adopted by the County.
• Nature Park, would not want to take money from the other
parks and put into this at this time. Would like to see
this remain natural.
• Fire Station, concern is that there will be approximately
1,275 houses by the Second Phase. We are looking at
Nichols Road and that area, which may not be developed
for ten or twelve years. Would like to see the fire
station come on line in Phase Two, we could set a unit
number, say the 900th unit.
Mr. Myers responded that the Fire Department selected the site
for a reason, and that reason was because of the grades and
slopes, this is basically at the top. There is a gradient
that goes on the roads that goes into the Second Phase of the
project - -they picked the middle of the project to put the fire
station in and also looked at the grades of the road, space
and the number of units.
Discussion ensued on location, timing, cost of construction
and equipping a fire station.
Chairwoman Brinley requested that a recommendation be
forwarded to City Council that consideration be given to
revising timing of construction of the fire station to Phase
II, City and developer working together, and $500,000 for
equipment.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
APPROVAL OF THE TMC NORTH PEAK DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT SUBJECT
TO STAFF'S RECOMMENDED REVISIONS, AND THAT CONSIDERATION BE
GIVEN TO REVISING TIMING OF CONSTRUCTION FOR THE FIRE STATION
TO PHASE II, AND REQUIRING $1,000,000 FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE
FIRE FACILITY AND $500,000 FOR EQUIPMENT, AND THE DELETION OF
GRADING, HYDROSEEDING AND IRRIGATION OF THAT SECTION AS LISTED
IN SECTION 4.1.4 IN THE STAFF REPORT, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER
BULLARD.
Approved 5 -0
MOVED BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY AND SECOND BY COMMISSIONER NEFF TO
ADOPT RESOLUTION NO. 92 -2, ENTITLED AS FOLLOWS:
RESOLUTION NO. 92 -2
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION
OF THE CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA,
RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF A DEVELOPMENT
AGREEMENT WITH NORTH PEAK PARTNERS
Commissioner Gilenson asked for discussion, stating that he
would like a note of concern to Council on this, from him, on
the 5 million dollar aggregate policy.
At this time Chairwoman Brinley called for the question.
Approved 5 -0
Planning Commission Minutes
August 19, 1992
Page 8
2. Specific Plan 91 -1, Zone Change 92 -3 and Environmental Impact
Report 92 -3 - Oak Grove Equities (Elsinore City Center) City
Planner Christen presented a request to approve the Lake
Elsinore City Center Specific Plan, Zone Change, Environmental
Impact Report and Design Review for a proposed 49.2 acre
commercial retail and office center. The proposed project
consists of 32.6 acres of General Commercial uses (retail,
office, restaurant and movie theater), with 8.6 acres of
manufactured slopes, 4.2 acres of major roads, and a "Future
Use Area" of 3.8 acres. The total commercial square footage
is 356,400. The project site is located at the southeast
corner of Grape Street and Railroad Canyon Road.
Chairwoman Brinley opened the public hearing at 8:33 p.m.,
asking for anyone wishing to speak in favor.
Mr. Milton Freeman, partner in Oak Grove Equities, stated that
they have engaged Turrini and Brink to do the Specific Plan
and to oversee the consultants and coordinate the work on the
Environmental Impact Report. Mr. Freeman stated that Mr.
Greco of Turrini and Brink is present and will present the
proposal and answer any questions.
Mr. Greco, gave a brief history and highlighted the major
issues relating to the project: freeway off -ramp, parking and
landscaping. He then detailed the site design, and stated in
the revised graphics - -we are still in disagreement with staff
recommendation for the improved raised median. It is far
above anything required by the City, it is very expensive and
it will be a maintenance nightmare. In the revised graphics
we have removed the curb for that very same reason, we feel
it will be much cleaner and easier to maintain.
Mr. Greco requested that condition number 8 be modified, as
Section 17.66 has already been addressed within the Specific
Plan.
Mr. Greco then referred to Figure 12 of the document, which
presently shows an 8 inch sewer line which would need to be
added along Railroad Canyon Road. Since this document was
prepared we have done further work and investigation and
determined that the 8 inch line that would extend from Grape
easterly would not be required, and presented a new graphic
and requested that this graphic, as well as the revised
parking graphic, be placed in the text at the appropriate
time.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for anyone else wishing to speak in
favor. Receiving no response, she asked for those opposed.
Receiving no response, she asked for anyone wishing to speak
on the matter. Receiving no response, the public hearing was
closed at 8:40 p.m.
Commissioner Neff inquired about the freeway off -ramp status
of approval with Cal Trans.
City Planner Christen stated that it is his understanding that
the project applicant along with BSI consultants, representing
the City, have spoken with Cal Trans, but does not believe
that Cal Trans has taken a position.
Mr. Greco stated that their team has been working with the
City's team and working on a number of alternatives: with a
ramp, without a ramp and the possibility of a joint ramp at
both the location we show and just a little bit to the north,
near Franklin- -that would provide an opportunity for the best
access and that is the one that we hope would be approved, and
Planning Commission Minutes
August 19, 1992
Page 9
SPECIFIC PLAN 91 -1, ZONE CHANGE 92 -3 AND ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT
REPORT 92 -3 CONTINUED
I think from the City, because it provides the most flexi-
bility. As we go forward with the final design and the map
that issue will have been resolved with Cal Trans.
Commissioner Bullard stated that his questions were answered
during the study session. Will take into consideration your
request on condition number 8 and the graphic on the sewer
line.
Commissioner Sellevold commented on the following:
Amount grading and where the dirt that has to be taken
off -site is going to be placed.
Mr. Greco stated that they have three or four locations, but
it is very difficult at this point in the process to identify
a site when we do not have Specific Plan approval. When we
have Specific Plan approval and can go forward then specific
agreements can be drawn.
• Condition number 2, whether there is a specific reason
for the raised parking lot- -this means more maintenance
and water.
City Planner Christen stated that staff is trying to soften it
up somewhat.
Commissioner Gilenson commented on the following:
• Condition number 1, spoke to staff and the applicant
about this, would like to see something similar to the
rooftop enclosures at the Outlet Center.
• Condition number 2, requested 24 inch box trees rather
than 15 gallon trees, and delete the second sentence, but
would like to have something out there to break up the
sea of blacktop.
• Inquired about a phasing plan.
Mr. Greco responded they are expecting the project to be
developed in one or two phases -- identifying the major anchor
tenants in phase one. To give a time frame, anticipates that
the site could be in operation sometime between 14 and 16
months.
Chairwoman Brinley asked Mr. Greco to reiterate his request
for modification to condition number 8.
Mr. Greco stated that within the Specific Plan document is
language that provides for specific plan zoning and are asking
for a rezone from its current C -2 to Specific Plan, within
that we have articulated very specific parking language.
City Planner Christen stated the reason condition number 8 was
inserted was because of the theater and restaurant use, which
requires more than 1 space per 250 square feet.
Mr. Greco stated their section does address this and they went
beyond the City's standards.
Chairwoman Brinley asked staff if they felt there is adequate
parking. City Planner Christen stated, it is his under-
standing, that we are over parked relative to the standards.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 19, 1992
Page 10
SPECIFIC PLAN 91 -1. ZONE CHANGE 92 -3 AND ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT
REPORT 92 -3 CONTINUED
Chairwoman Brinley commented on the visual impacts from the
freeway, with regard to the parking lot and rooftop.
Mr. Greco stated they agree about the curbs and that is why in
the modified plan they are taken out.
Discussion ensued on the parking lot with regard to parking
stops -- medians, landscaping, maintenance and safety standards.
Commissioner Gilenson suggested that condition number 2 be
amended, to read: "Parking lot landscaping designs shall
provide at least one (1) twenty- four -inch (2411) tree for every
ten (10) parking spaces with planter box to be staggered every
row and subject to approval of the Community Development
Manager or designee ".
Chairwoman Brinley suggested that condition number 1 be
amended by adding the following language: "rooftop enclosures
similar to the Outlet Center shall be used and subject to
approval of the Community Development Manager or designee ".
Discussion ensued on condition number 8 and the applicant's
request for modification.
Mr. Greco suggested that condition number 8 be modified by
adding the following: It shall be as provided for in Section
17.66 unless specifically provided for otherwise in the
Specific Plan. For the record, the parking requirements are
set forth in Roman Numeral XII -31. For restaurants and other
food establishments we are requiring 1 space for each 45
square feet of customer area plus 1 space for each 200 square
feet of non - customer area, this exceeds the standards.
Attorney Burns responded that this would be acceptable
language.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER NEFF TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
CERTIFICATION OF ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT 92 -3; APPROVAL OF
ZONE CHANGE 92 -3, AND APPROVAL OF SPECIFIC PLAN 91 -1 BASED ON
THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED
IN THE STAFF REPORT AND THE FOLLOWING AMENDMENTS:
Condition No. 1: Roof mounted air conditioning units and
any other rooftop mechanical equipment
shall not be visible from any neighboring
properties or public rights of way. If
necessary architectural features such as
parapet walls and secondary parapet walls
which are architecturally consistent with
the rest of center shall be used to
conceal roof mounted equipment. Rooftop
enclosures similar to the Outlet Center
shall be used and subject to approval of
the Community Development Manager or
designee.
Condition No. 2: Parking lot landscaping designs shall
provide at least one (1) twenty -four -inch
(2411) tree for every ten (10) parking
spaces with planter box to be staggered
every row and subject to approval of the
Community Development Manager or
designee.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 19, 1992
Page 11
SPECIFIC PLAN 91 -1. ZONE CHANGE 92 -3 AND ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT
REPORT 92 -3 CONTINUED
Condition No. 8: At such time as any Design Review
application is submitted for this site
the applicant shall meet all requirements
of Section 17.66 (Parking Requirements).
It shall be as provided for in Section
17.66 unless specifically provided for
otherwise in the Specific Plan.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
Approved 5 -0
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER NEFF, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BULLARD AND
CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE TO ADOPT RESOLUTION NO. 92 -3,
ENTITLED AS FOLLOWS:
RESOLUTION NO. 92 -3
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA RECOMMENDING
TO THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF LAKE
ELSINORE APPROVAL OF OAK GROVE EQUITIES
( ELSINORE CITY CENTER) SPECIFIC PLAN 91 -1
At this time, 9:05 P.M., the Planning Commission recessed.
At this time, 9:12 P.M., the Planning Commission reconvened.
BUSINESS ITEMS
3. Residential Project 92 -3 - Century Homes Communities -
Assistant Planner Villa presented a request for Design Review
of four model homes on a portion of Tract 20704 and plotting
on Phase 1. The site is located between Summerhill Drive and
Railroad Canyon Road within the central portion of the Canyon
Creek Specific Plan.
Chairwoman Brinley asked if there was anyone representing the
applicant and if there were any concerns.
Mr. Arthur Levine, 1535 South D Street, San Bernardino, gave
a brief background on Century Homes. He then stated they are
in agreement with the Conditions of Approval placed on the
project with the exception of the following:
Condition number 4 and 6 are linked to us in the
following, the mix is say, at this point in time, a best
guess on the part of our marketing department, which is
why we have elected to submit strictly phase one - -the
models and 17 production units. The mix that we are
proposing is a trail mix or trial plotting.
Condition number 6, relative to the mix, we have no
problem, relative to phase one, with the 15 percent
plotting. But would request that on subsequent plottings
that the plan one be limited to no more than 20 percent
of the plottings.
Condition number 20, it is out understanding that the
subdivision and improvements - -all that have been put in
or proposed to be put in by Friedman Homes does comply
with open space, parkland requirements and park facility
requirements of the City and, in light of that, I don't
believe that we would be required to pay the park -in -lieu
fees. This is my understanding.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 19, 1992
Page 12
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 92 -3 CONTINUED
At this time, Chairwoman asked for discussion at the table.
Commissioner Bullard commented on condition number 27, slopes
in the first phase, we are going to have a lot of irrigation- -
my estimation is that over 90 percent of the phase has greater
than a 3 foot slope in the back yard and this will be covered,
and complied with. The model home 2XC plans, there is only a
three foot clearance on the side yard setback.
Mr. Levine responded that there is already a submitted and
approved slope landscaping and irrigation plan, submitted by
Friedman Homes, and it is our intention to comply with those
plans and requirements. He then stated regarding he model
plans, that they would need to look at this and adjust.
Believes it is the intent to put a retaining wall between Lots
4 and 6.
Commissioner Bullard stated that Lot 19 has the same
situation.
Commissioner Neff commented on the mix and plotting; doesn't
disagree with Mr. Levine's on condition number 4 and 6.
Condition number 20 raises an issue with application to these
fees - -since the demand is not created at the building permit
stage, but occupancy stage, if the fees are in fact due and
payable that they be deferred until occupancy; condition
number 28, fencing - -the block wall would be only along
Summerhill Drive.
Commissioner Gilenson requested the following amendments:
Condition number 9, add the word "rear ". Condition number 31,
add "and shall be removed prior to residential occupancy of
the model home ". Condition number 33, not applicable and
should be deleted.
Discussion ensued on condition number 33, regarding the
tentative map /final map and conditions carried over from maps
or development agreement; final map supersedes tentative map,
but tentative contains conditions; dealing with minor design
review at this point.
Commissioner Neff stated that he concurs with Commissioner
Gilenson on conditions number 9 and 31.
Chairwoman Brinley stated she is in agreement with staff
recommendation on condition number 6.
Commissioner Bullard stated that under RECOMMENDATION it is
noted as R 91 -3 and it should be R 92 -3.
Commissioner Neff inquired about the modification to condition
number 6 as requested by the applicant.
Discussion ensued on condition number 6, pertaining to the
applicant's request. Chairwoman Brinley stated that she would
like to see this remain as written.
MOTION BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY TO APPROVE THE FOUR MODELS
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 92 -3, AND PLOTTING FOR PHASE ONE, BASED ON
THE FINDINGS, EXHIBITS "A" THROUGH "N ", AND SUBJECT TO THE
CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT WITH THE
FOLLOWING AMENDMENTS:
Condition No. 9: All windows larger than one foot (11) by
one foot (11) on all side and rear
Planning Commission Minutes
August 19, 1992
Page 13
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 92 -3 CONTINUED
elevations with the exceptions of those
windows already utilizing treatments such
as ledges or mullions shall incorporate
stucco surrounds.
Condition No. 31: Tubular steel fence that surrounds models
shall be constructed behind public
sidewalk, and subject to the approval of
the Community Development Manager or
designee, prior to issuance of building
permit, and shall be removed prior to
residential occupancy of the model home.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD.
Approved 5 -0
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
Community Development Manager Shear stated that staff would work
with EVMWD on the air conditioning.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Bullard
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Sellevold
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Neff
Nothing to report.
Chairwoman Brinley
Nothing to report.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 9:53 p.m., motion by Commissioner Neff,
second by Commissioner Bullard.
Approved 5 -0
Respectfully ,ubmitted,
findea Gri dstaff
Pamela Bri
Chairwoman
MINUTES OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE 2ND DAY OF SEPTEMBER, 1992
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:07 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Bullard.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Neff, Sellevold, Bullard
and Brinley.
ABSENT:
. None.
Also present were: City Planner Christen, Attorney Burns,
Community Services Director Watenpaugh, Engineering Manager
O'Donnell and Deputy City Clerk Bryning.
MINUTE ACTION•
Motion by Commissioner Neff to approve the Minutes of August 19,
1992, as submitted, second by Commissioner Sellevold.
Approved 5 -0
PUBLIC COMMENTS:
There being no request to speak, Chairwoman Brinley closed the
Public Comment Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
1. General Plan Amendment 92 -3 and Zone Code Amendment 92 -3 -
2.
The City of Lake Elsinore requests a General Plan Amendment to
implement the "Historic Downtown Land Use Plan ", and approval
of Zone Code Amendment 92 -3 establishing the Historic Downtown
Overlay District and the associated Historic Downtown Design
Standards. The area is generally bounded to the north by
Collier Avenue and Interstate 15, to the south by Lakeshore
Drive, the west by Chaney Street, and the east by Grove
Avenue, Conklin Avenue and Rupard Street.
MOVED BY NEFF, SECONDED BY BULLARD AND CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS
VOTE TO CONTINUE THE GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 92 -3 AND ZONE CODE
AMENDMENT 92 -3 - CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE TO THE MEETING OF
OCTOBER 21, 1992.
City Planner Christen explained that this item is the Murdock
Alberhill Ranch General Plan Amendment, Specific Plan
Amendment, Addendum to the Environmental Impact Report and
Development Agreement. Also there is an addendum to the staff
report and two revisions to the Development Agreement. He
further explained that this project contains approximately
511.4 acres bounded by the Brighton Alberhill Specific Plan to
the north, the extension of Terra Cotta Road to the east,
Terra Cotta area to the south, and Robb /Lake Street to the
west.
Mr. Christen stated that the original Alberhill Ranch Specific
Plan was approved on August 8, 1989 and consisted of 3,705
dwelling units for the entire Specific Plan area. Brighton
Planning Commission Minutes
September 2, 1992
Page two
Homes purchased a portion of the Alberhill project from Long
Beach Equities. The Murdock site is the remaining, primarily
residential, portion of the original Specific Plan. He further
reported that the proposed Murdock amendment to the Alberhill
Specific Plan consists of residential, commercial, open space,
institutional, and recreational land uses on 511.4 gross acres
within the approved Alberhill Specific Plan. The purpose of the
General Plan Amendment is to remove the existing Exhibit II -3
from the Land Use Element of the General Plan.
The purpose of the Murdock Alberhill Specific Plan Amendment
is to revise the distribution and intensity of land uses
approved for the 511.4 acre site covered by the approved
Alberhill Specific Plan (89 -2). Although the proposed
Specific Plan retains similar land use concepts, the revised
Specific Plan proposes several significant modifications such
as residential density increase on a per acre basis, total
dwelling unit increase, land use revisions to generally higher
density residential than the approved plan and increase in
commercial acreage.
The purpose of the Murdock Alberhill Development Agreement is
to vest the amended Specific Plan project under California
State Law.
Staff would suggest that a time frame or date be set on the
$100,000 feasibility study which would be six (6) months from
the effective date of the Development Agreement and in
addition, Exhibit II -3 is incorrect in the Staff Report and is
correct in the Specific Plan Amendment, Exhibit 1 and should
be the land use plan approved for this Amendment to Specific
Plan 89 -2.
Commissioner Bullard stated that he would have to abstain from
discussion or vote due to a potential conflict of interest due
to Murdock owning a company which may have economic gain that
his wife works for.
Commissioner Neff abstained due to conflict of interest
because his company owns an adjoining piece of land in which
this project could create an economic gain.
Both Commissioners stepped down.
Chairwoman Brinley opened the public hearing at 7:12 p.m.,
asking for anyone wishing to speak in favor. The following
persons spoke:
Ilene Miles, Assistant Vice President of Murdock Development
Company stated that this project has been in process for the
last two years and commended staff for the work and effort.
Ms. Miles then presented a slide presentation to explain the
project and stated that if the Commission had any questions
she and her staff were available to answer. She further
explained the development agreement and went over its
contents.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for those wishing to speak in
opposition to the project. Hearing none, she asked for anyone
wishing to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, the
public hearing was closed at 7:21 p.m.
Gilenson: The two feasibility studies, one for $50,000 and
one for $100,000, can you elaborate for me what the $50,000
and the $100,000 are for and how we came up with those
figures?
Planning Commission Minutes
September 2, 1992
Page three
Christen: The $50,000 is for a public facility study. There
have been concerns in the past that we haven't looked at the
entire City boundary and sphere area to make sure we have
proper community facilities located in the various satellite
areas. Many of the Specific Plans that are being proposed or
future Specific Plans may or may not contain those facilities
that are essential to a City as a whole, such as library, post
offices etc.
Gilenson: O.K. and the other.
Christen: The $100,000 is, theres been I guess a little bit
of a ground swell here recently to try to get some more public
facilities, recreation type uses such as a community pool,
basically we are trying to amass some dollars to look at those
facilities.
Gilenson: O.K. now, on the Brighton, Ramsgate and T.M.C. we
had $100,000, 100,000, and $200,000. What were those studies
for?
Christen: Brighton doesn't come to me right off the top of my
head, North Peak dealt primarily with the annexation of the
County park that remained, the other $100,000 was basically
for work on Highway 74 and they were fronting quite a bit of
money on Highway 74, for us to do studies for the expansion of
that roadway system.
Gilenson: O.K. and Ramsgate, that $100,000.
Christen: One of them is and I'm not sure if its Ramsgate, is
an amphitheater study, or Community Center. O.K. the
amphitheater study is on Brighton, the Community Center, I
think that the Civic Center I think on Ramsgate.
Gilenson: O.K. how did we arrive at these figures? At
random.
Christen: Well kind of yes and no. I mean we don't know
exactly in a situation what a study will cost, but we try to
look at some past studies just to come up with the - -they are
round numbers.
Gilenson: Wouldn't it be equitable to only allocate a fair
share to each Specific Plan area. What I'm talking about is
like Brighton and Ramsgate, they both got hit for a $100,000,
and there're about twice the size of this project, the T.M.C.
project is about twice the size of Ramsgate and they got hit
with $200,000. This ones getting hit with $150,000.
Christen: There are some other things that come into play.
One of the reasons that Brighton went the way that it did is
because there was a strong desire for a golf course. They got
some additional units. This project is also getting
additional units, but is not offering a golf course, so I
guess that came into play. There was an item that was very
strongly desired by the Community.
Gilenson: I agree that it was desired by the Community, but
I think that it should be a fair share. Each development
project.
Christen: All of these items have obviously been up for
Planning Commission and City Council approval. These are just
staff recommendations.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 2, 1992
Page four
Gilenson: O.K. another question I have. On the addendum that
was given to us tonight, the long one, on page two, they are
adding $210 per residential dwelling, I'm assuming that's for
police and fire.
Christen: Yes, primarily. Basically, this project in its
Fiscal Impact Report, shows a short fall with some of the
activity that's happening at the State level now and the
possibility of the City loosing substantial amounts of money
in their budget, we have to start dealing with the short falls
in all these projects that are coming before us. Ultimately,
I think we would like to get to a point where we have a City
wide assessment of some sort, assessment district or whatever
it is that will look at police and fire.
Gilenson: O.K. I'm in agreement with the extraction of extra
money for police services. The question I have, and for the
record I did meet with the applicant for about an hour and a
half this week, they had a study prepared by a consultant and
we had our study prepared by our consultant, the two figures
didn't jive as to how much an assessment per home should be.
How did we come up with - why did our figures differ from
theirs and was there a happy medium agreed or are we just
dictating what we want.
Christen: There was a happy medium I think agreed, although
the situation is that we don't as yet have a clear
understanding of what the City would like relative to police
persons per thousand population. So, a number of 1.5 has been
thrown out. In this applicants fiscal impact report they
looked at a 1.08 and a 1.35 ratio per thousand. I think
finance basically which is a driving force behind this $210
amount is trying to reach some point where they are
comfortable with covering the short fall on this project from
a fiscal standpoint.
Gilenson: O.K., thank you. Back to our regular staff report
on page 7, number 3, my question to staff is why we are
recommending the change from the approved specific plan on the
minimum sizes.
Christen: O.K. Understand that yes there is an approved
Specific Plan, but once you amend it other options are
available. And this again is something we're getting
primarily from City Council that they would like to see a
larger size units than are allowed in the Zoning Code and that
had already been approved in other Specific Plans. We have
some that go down as small as 425 square feet. We're
responding to that with revisions that occur in the amended
version is basically an agreement with the applicant. A
negotiation agreement. Ultimately, what I think this
applicant is looking for some direction from City Council to
set a policy relative to unit size.
Gilenson: O.K. I agree with that that we need to increase
the sizes. The only problem I have with it were putting the
new developers at a disadvantage in that we have approved
other plans with lower lot sizes which means that when the
homes are built, they can sell theirs cheeper than this
applicant and if that's the case this project is never gonna
get built. Or kind of a rock and a hard place where we wanta
start going with this.
Christen: I understand, we're still looking for direction on
this from City Council.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 2, 1992
Page five
Gilenson: O.K. On Conditions of Approval, Condition number
16, third bullet on Condition 16, I'd like to change it to
Public Transit stop shall be incorporated in order to
establish appropriate location points with the approval of
R.T.A.
Brinley: Tony, could you say that again please.
Gilenson: Public Transit stop shall be incorporated, changing
the word considered for incorporate, in order to establish
appropriate location points with the approval of R.T.A.
Riverside Transit Authority, or whatever they are called now
days.
Gilenson: O.K., not done yet, let me go to my other set of
notes here. In the Development Agreement, Staff do you know
off hand how much dollars we're getting on the fire station.
Are we getting a million or a million five like on the other
one we just approved?
Christen: On North Peak?
Gilenson: Right. North Peak we did a million five.
Christen: Right. Actually it became a million six with the
police facility added on.
Gilenson: What are we doing on this one.
Christen: The project applicant can probably explain it a
little bit better than I can. It has to do with when the
project has some fiscal positive. Theres a certain allocation
that the fiscal impact report is allocated to a fire station.
Ilene Miles: In our fiscal analysis in going through that
process, what we discovered was that our project is being
serviced by the Lincoln /Machado Station. That station is
being paid for by CFD and not by the City. But, what we did
include in our report was our fair share of the cost of trucks
and squad car and also increase service going forward. And
then at year 10 when its assumed that the project area be more
fully built out we added the cost of another fire station in
the formula. Assuming that we would have to be paying our
fair share of it at a unknown location.
Gilenson: Alright, what are we putting up front and what are
we putting in in 10 years? In dollar amounts.
Miles: You mean from us?
Gilenson: Right.
Miles: We're not putting up anything up front because the
station is being paid for by the CFD.
Gilenson: Another truck?
Miles: Right, and the way we're paying for it is through that
$210 per unit increased development fee.
Gilenson: Oh. O.K. I want to go back to that then. On page
two of the Amended Special Project Concerns and
Recommendations I'd like to change, I don't know if you made
that part of a condition now. Is that part of a condition
staff. On you -add $210.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 2, 1992
Page six
Christen: It was, basically it would have to go into the
Development Agreement as added on to the DAG fee.
Gilenson: O.K.
Christen: It was not conditioned.
Gilenson: O.K., I'd like to see it somehow worded either in
the Development Agreement or in the Conditions of Approval
that the $210 per residential dwelling unit is for police
services only. And then an additional for the fire.
Christen: O.K. that takes us back to the original staff
report where we had the $250 for fire and $135 to cover the
short fall in services. If you go back to the staff report we
had a $250 for fire and then $135 fee to cover the short fall.
Gilenson: For Police.
Christen: Right, for police or whatever. Any.
Gilenson: That's what I'm getting at, I want something
specific for police.
Christen: You might want to add a separate one then, because
see understand that the $135 in the original, in the original
was for, it was in the original staff report, was for
operations maintenance cost for various things including
police.
Gilenson: Originally when I went through these notes I didn't
have a figure in mind. When I went through some of the
studies that have been done regarding costs of police
officers, I had wanted something either in the Development
Agreement or in the conditions somewhere that the cost of one
officer for every 300 CO's issued. Whatever that cost for the
three hundred, or for one officer is. Divided down to 300
CO's.
Miles: If I may, in our fiscal analysis, what we used is
actually 1.08 police per every one thousand people, which is
similar to what you're coming up with. As a matter of fact I
think that its a little higher. And how we got this is we
polled 20 relative similar cities in the area and the average
police service of those is 1.08, and so that is also in the
formula of the fiscal analysis, and not only the fire,
facilities and service.
Gilenson: Right, that's what I was talking about before with
the figures being different.
Miles: Right
Gilenson: But, this $210 you're saying is going to be used
for, for adding an extra fire truck, which is needed because
of the size of your development, but we also need the police
out there. I want a specific fee for whats going for fire and
whats going for police.
Miles: To separate the $210?
Gilenson: Whatever.
Miles: Right.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 2, 1992
Page seven
Burns: My only comment for what its worth is usually you get
money in the Development Agreement for the facilities, but the
manning of the police officer is something that you have to do
year after year and that's why I think maybe there was that
thought about that special tax or that district that would
provide for an ongoing. Might want to commit to obtaining an
officer with that money that will be there one year and gone
the next. That's why you use that money for building a
facility but not for an ongoing salary type of an obligation.
Christen: It also depends upon building permits which could
vary drastically so its a one shot thing.
Gilenson: O.K.
Brinley: Thank you Mr. Burns.
Gilenson: Lets see.
Brinley: Are you done yet?
Gilenson: No lets see ... See if I have anything else here. I
think the only other thing I had which the applicant has
already stated is on page 24 of the Development Agreement,
under 18.1.2, the last figure should be changed to $5,000,000.
The applicant has agreed to that.
Brinley: The liability to $5,000,000.
Gilenson: Right, its $1,000,000 per person, $5,000,000
aggregate. Give me a minute here and see if I have any more
notes. That appears to be it. Thank you.
Brinley: Commissioner Sellevold.
Sellevold: Actually, I didn't find anything with this. Fine.
No comment.
Brinley: My comments are I'm very happy with the project,
glad to see it coming on line, looking forward to the nice
development that's going to go on there. I have no problem,
myself too I have met with the applicant and have worked out
the concerns that I had and I feel that we have been
comfortably covered with the $210 and I was glad to see it
with our floor ratio there of 1.0 and at this point I am very
pleased with the project and have no further comment at this
time. We will take this Madame Secretary, for you in three
motions adding to them the modifications to each of them. I
believe there are modifications to the Development Agreement,
is that correct Robert, with the fees being changed to $210.
And the effective date for the $50,000 and the $100,000.
Christen: Right, there is already one for the $50 and add one
for the $100. Also the two revisions that are before you from
the applicant's attorney.
Brinley: There is one thing I'd like to refer to really quick
before we get there and that is the Development Agreement. On
page 6 we asked for the word reasonably to be deleted, in the
subject up there of the Community Park. "Improvements shall
be determined consistent with the Community Park concept plan
by consultant retained by the Developer and delete the word
reasonably and approved by the City and the City Hall by the
design within ".
Planning Commission Minutes
September 2, 1992
Page eight
Christen: Mr. Burns has my Development Agreement but that's
O.K. I believe the issue was with Dick Watenpaugh's and I
guess the City's policy that the City hires the designer for
the parks would not be...
Brinley: You had the other one here down into the
neighborhood parks where you wanted to add into there to the
rough graded area.
Christen: I don't remember that issue, but Ilene you might
want to speak to that.
Miles: Yea, I believe Mr. Watenpaugh added a condition to the
Specific Plan that simply said that rather it be in a raw
condition it would be dedicated in a rough graded condition.
On the first C of O in that Planning Area II.
Brinley: And the other question that I have in the CD
regarding the motion when we get to, we will include the
addendum here that we were given this evening and the letters
that we received from Jones, Day, Revison and Hogg.
Christen: Right, that's the Developers Attorney. Those have
been reviewed by City Council.
Brinley: And I would like these. Do you want this included
in the...
Christen: Yes, please.
Brinley: Alright then, the chair at this point will now
entertain a motion.
Sellevold: I move to recommend to the City Council approval
of the General Plan Amendment 92 -2 and Resolution No. 92 -4
with amendments.
Brinley: Do I have a second.
Gilenson: Second.
Brinley: I have a second, any discussion? O.K. Madame
Secretary open the channels for the voting. All those in
favor all those opposed. I can't see. 3 -0.
Moving down to the second recommendation. Mr. Gilenson.
Gilenson: Move approval of Specific Plan Amendment 89 -2 with
the change on condition 16 bullet three, the changes according
to the Staff Report Addendum on condition 9, 15, 17, 19, 20,
and 25.
Brinley: May I have a second.
Sellevold: Second.
Brinley: Thank you. Discussion? Madame Secretary open the
channels for voting. All those in favor all those opposed.
3 -0.
O.K. We are down here for motion number three. Commissioner
Sellevold.
Sellevold: I recommend to City Council approval of the
Murdock Alber -Hill Development Agreement and the adoption of
Resolution No. 92 -6 with amendment from Jones and Day and on
the insurance from $1,000,000 to $5,000,000.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 2, 1992
Page nine
Gilenson: Second.
Brinley: O.K. Discussion?
channels for voting please.
opposed. 3 -0
Madame Secretary open the
All those in favor, all those
THE FORMAL MOTION READS AS FOLLOWS:
MOVED BY SELLEVOLD, SECONDED BY GILENSON AND CARRIED BY A 3 -0
VOTE WITH BULLARD AND NEFF ABSTAINING TO RECOMMEND TO CITY
COUNCIL THE APPROVAL OF GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 94 -2 WITH
CHANGES AND AMENDMENTS AND RESOLUTION NO. 92 -4 WHICH READS AS
FOLLOWS:
RESOLUTION NO. 92 -4
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA RECOMMENDING
TO THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF LAKE
ELSINORE APPROVAL OF GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT
92 -4 FOR THE AMENDMENT OF ALBERHILL SPECIFIC
PLAN LAND USE EXHIBIT II -3, BOUNDED BY
INTERSTATE 15, TERRA COTTA ROAD /NICHOLS,
PACIFIC CLAY AND ROBB /LAKE STREET; FILED BY
MURDOCK ALBERHILL.
MOVED BY GILENSON, SECONDED BY SELLEVOLD AND CARRIED BY A 3 -0
VOTE WITH BULLARD AND NEFF ABSTAINING TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY
COUNCIL THE APPROVAL OF SPECIFIC PLAN 89 -2 AMENDMENT NO. 2 AND
THE ADDENDUM TO ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT 89 -2 WITH CHANGES
AND AMENDMENTS AND APPROVE RESOLUTION NO. 92 -5 WHICH READS AS
FOLLOWS:
RESOLUTION NO. 92 -5
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA RECOMMENDING
TO THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF LAKE
ELSINORE APPROVAL OF MURDOCK ALBERHILL
SPECIFIC PLAN AMENDMENT #2 OF THE ALBERHILL
SPECIFIC PLAN 89 -2; BOUNDED BY INTERSTATE 15,
TERRA COTTA ROAD /NICHOLS, PACIFIC CLAY AND
ROBB /LAKE STREET; FILED BY MURDOCK DEVELOPMENT.
MOVED BY SELLEVOLD, SECONDED BY GILENSON AND CARRIED BY A 3 -0
VOTE WITH BULLARD AND NEFF ABSTAINING TO RECOMMEND TO CITY
COUNCIL THE APPROVAL OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE AND MURDOCK DEVELOPMENT WITH CHANGES AND
AMENDMENTS AND APPROVE RESOLUTION NO. 92-6 WHICH READS AS
FOLLOWS:
RESOLUTION NO. 92 -6
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY
OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA, RECOMMENDING APPROVAL
OF A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH MURDOCK ALBERHILL.
BUSINESS ITEMS•
None.
PLANNING DEPARTMENTIS COMMENTS:
City Planner Christen stated that he was please to see this project
come on line.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 2, 1992
Page ten
PLANNING COMMISSIONERIS COMMENTS:
Commissioner Neff
Stated that he was looking forward to the future and the
development of this project.
Commissioner Bullard
Concurred with Commissioner Neff and commended Commission and staff
for all the hard work. He further complemented Murdock for their
good track record in building.
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Sellevold
Nothing to report.
Chairwoman Brinley
Stated that she is will be happy to see this Murdock Alberhill
Ranch project get started as soon as possible.
MOVED BY BULLARD, SECONDED BY BRINLEY AND CARRIED BY A 5 -0 VOTE TO
ADJOURN THE REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AT 7:47 P.M.
5 Re tf�ull; Submitt ,
Adria L. Brning .
Deputy City Clerk
Pamela Btinley
MINUTES
HELD ON THE
OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
16TH DAY OF
1992
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:13 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Sellevold.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Sellevold, Bullard and
Brinley
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: Neff
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, City Planner
Christen, Assistant Planner Villa, and Engineering Manager
O'Donnell.
Commissioner Neff arrived at 7:15 p.m.
MINUTE ACTION
Commissioner Gilenson referred to Page 2 and requested that his
discussion with staff be included verbatim. Page 4, second
paragraph, the amount should be 5 million.
Motion by Commissioner Gilenson to approve Minutes of September 2,
1992, with the addition of the verbatim discussion and the
correction on Page 4, second by Commissioner Bullard.
Approved 5 -0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no request to speak, Chairwoman Brinley closed the
PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 - Ervin S. Palmer - Assistant
Planner Villa presented a request to allow incidental weekly
uses such as: Farmer's Market, Street Fair, Concerts, Art
Shows, Car Rallies, Boat Races, Chili Cook -off, Wine Tasting,
Arts and Crafts Fair, Fiddlers' Festival, Hang Glider Fly -in,
Renaissance Fair, Bungee Jumping and Carnivals at the Elsinore
West Marina located at 32700 Riverside Drive, within the
Marina Campground.
Assistant Planner Villa informed the Commission that the
applicant decided to eliminate the Bungee Jumping, Boat Races,
Hang Gliding and the Carnivals from the application after
being informed of staff's concerns, and seek approval for
those that are considered to be minor in nature. He then
stated that the proposal was reviewed pursuant to the
Environmental Quality Act and determined to be a Class 23,
Section 15323, Categorical Exemption.
Chairwoman Brinley opened the public hearing at 7:20 p.m.,
asking for any written communication.
The Secretary reported the following written communication:
John A. & Margaret E. Clark, 15568 Grand Avenue,
expressing concerns with the Concerts and associated
noise; trespassing and the disregard for private property
quoting past experiences. Indicated that the other
examples given seem like a good idea for our community if
organized properly.
James W. Peyton, E1 Morro Investment Co., Inc., owners of
the Butterfield Village Mobilehome Park, 32900 Riverside
Drive, next door to Elsinore West Marina, expressing
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 2
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
concern on additional noise,
and a deterioration of the
adverse effect of property
park.
traffic, security problems
environment as well as an
values of everyone in the
Letter from Citizens of Butterfield Village Mobilehome
Park, (45 signatures) 32900 Riverside Drive, next door to
Elsinore West Marina, expressing concern on the increase
in crowds, noise, parking problems, access to properties,
robberies and vandalism.
Chairwoman Brinley brought to the attention of the Commission
the memorandum from the Police Department dated 9- 11 -92.
At this time, Chairwoman Brinley asked for anyone wishing to
speak in favor. The following people spoke:
Mr. Richard Hinton, 32900 Riverside Drive, presented two
petitions in favor of the permit. He then informed the
Commission that he was a manager for the past four years,
up till February of this year, and we have never had any
problem. All of the problems we have had in the park
have been drive -in.
Mr. Kenneth Niemi, 17032 McBride, President of the Lake
Elsinore Hang - Gilding Association, stated a few years ago
Elsinore West Marina invited us to use their property as
a landing facility and in the time that has transpired we
have not had one incident that has affected hang - gliders
or the community adversely. There has not been any
accidents at all and this speaks in favor of the facility
of Elsinore Marina West and the people that run the
facility.
Ms. Terri Schumacher, 17032 McBride, stated that she has
been around the Marina - -as far as hang - gliding goes- -
since last November, and has not seen any accidents or
problems whatsoever.
Mr. Ervin Palmer, applicant, stated he has been conduct-
ing business for about 15 years, a force in the com-
munity--in a sense that we have been launching boats and
conducting a good business and brought a lot of tourist
into the community - -a positive force in the community.
He then stated the loss of water in the lake and along
with that our boating has been a real detriment to the
entire economic situation. The failure on the part of
the water board and others to satisfy this need - -water in
the lake, recreation, tourism and so on I think has been
a real shortcoming. What we are attempting to do with
this program, and we see only part of it here, we are
attempting to substitute recreational activities in the
area in an attempt to bring tourism back into the City
and business back into our park, and to provide
recreation of a broad nature for the entire community.
Our RV average age, customer base, is in its early
fifties. We are not talking about kids or a lot of rock -
n- rollers, we are talking about a mature, fairly well to
do kind of tourism group that we are hoping to attract.
The activities here, how long it has it been since any of
you have seen anything at all about a symphonic group of
some kind that is going to be playing. This is the
quality and kinds of things we are trying to do. We want
to bring these people in and do something good for the
whole community. Needless to say, it is an attempt to
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 3
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
replace the loss we are suffering, because of the lack of
the boating - -the boating base and everything that goes
with it.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for anyone else wishing to speak in
favor. Receiving no response, she asked for those opposed.
Mr. Dale Cleveland, spokesman for citizens of Butterfield
Village, stated that they have no quarrel with most of
the activities next door, and there is just a water
channel between us. We are very happy with the way the
place is run, but we would have an objection to loud
music after 9 or 10:00 p.m, it has happened a couple of
time, but it doesn't happen very often. We have no
problem with boats, boat racing activities. Our problem
number one is the loud music. We wouldn't appreciate a
rock group -- anything that would bring in the type of
people that their reputation has preceded them.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for anyone else wishing to speak in
opposition. Receiving no response, she asked for anyone
wishing to speak on the matter. Receiving no response, the
public hearing was closed at 7:32 p.m.
Commissioner Bullard - Amphitheater and the direct sound - -what
type of theater do you have out there, which way is the
openings pointing towards on your theater or where you are
going to have your concerts.
Mr. Palmer - As far a podium or stadium goes we do not have
one. We will, in all likelihood, have a small platform over
in the Farmer's Market area where we can have a 2 -3 man combo
of some kind. Referring to Exhibit "A ", the Farmer's Market
area is in the upper left hand corner, we would have probably
some kind of a small combo in that area. Now, that is a long
way from Butterfield; as a matter of fact, right next to it is
an open field going one -half to three - quarters mile down to
Kay's Bar. We also, from time to time, do have music in the
Pavilion, which is in the lower area. We have done that off
and off a lot of different kind of occasions, a wide variety
of music there. That essentially as far as aiming does is
down towards the other end of the lake.
Commissioner Bullard - it doesn't project the sound over
towards Butterfield.
Mr. Palmer - No not direct, it aims it the other way. I'm
sure, sound is sound it goes in different directions. It
certainly isn't aimed toward Butterfield, and as far as hours
goes our Farmer's Market is scheduled to run in the mornings,
Saturday mornings, and as far as times go, we have been asked
to curtail our activities by 9:00 p.m., which is consistent
with the schedule that we normally have. We have people in
the park who are concerned with the hours of operation as well
as our neighbors.
Commissioner Bullard - Whether there are plans for rock
concerts.
Mr. Palmer - No, we do not. I would not rule this out as a
possibility, but it would be once a year perhaps twice a year
event, if we did it. At the moment it is not on the agenda.
Commissioner Bullard - Plans are basically for the classical
type music.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 4
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
Mr. Palmer - A little bit of everything - -jazz. Keep in mind
that our customer base is in their early fifties and we would
be looking to provide entertainment for people at this age.
Commissioner Bullard - Vendors for the Farmer's Market, do you
have a limitation number in mind?
Mr. Palmer - We have two basis different kinds of activity - -a
certified Farmer's Market which we hope - -we are signed up to
go ahead with, sponsored by a corporation -- essentially a
farmers co -op. The farmers themselves are all certified and
their farms are examined by the City and they are licensed by
the County as well. In addition to that we will have arts and
crafts and we have a wide range of different kinds of crafts
people.
Commissioner Bullard - My main concern is, I do not want to
get into a situation like we had years ago with the open air
markets -- overcrowding and so forth. I want to make sure it is
kept clean and orderly.
Mr. Palmer - You don't want the Peddler's Village kind of
thing - -the Swap Meet. This is what we are trying to avoid, we
do not want that. We will not have any used merchandise of
any kind for sale, no hot merchandise. We have to have a good
clean show - -that is the intent.
Commissioner Bullard - What is your insurance package for- -
that you have against liability
Mr. Palmer - We turned that over to our insurance agent this
morning to review and he stated that most of our existing
insurance covers most of the activities that we are talking
about doing. Our hang - gliding friends have insurance - -their
policy with the City, providing the City coverage as well as
our park. So as far as insurance goes, I think this is
satisfactory. If the City needs also insured kinds of
coverage it will be provided.
At this time, Chairwoman Brinley stated she would like to go
over the memorandum from the Sheriff's Department:
The Police Department will need specific
information for each of the special events.
We will need the following information:
1. Date and times of events
2. Number and types of vendors
3. Sketch of layout for each event
4. Estimated attendance
5. Any plans involving alcoholic beverages
6. Concerts - type of music
7. Traffic Plan inside the
park /entrance and exit to park
8. Plans for crowd control and security
Chairwoman Brinley informed Mr. Palmer that these are items
that he will need to address with the Police Department, so
that they can held maintain security.
Mr. Palmer - It is apparent that, and I an not objecting to
this if they want it we will do it. We have been in business
for about 15 years and 12 of those years we launched boats.
We have today over 200 people living in the park and we have
150 sites that we rent on the weekends, which brings in
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 5
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
sometimes up to another 450 people; so we are accustom to
handling, for just our camping people, someplace over 600
people on a weekend basis. This does not include boating
which we did for many years - -we launched 300 boats a day on a
good weekend - -this is what we are trying to replace- -300 boats
a day with an average of 3.5 people to a boat. This is
another 1,000 people that we cope with, we have done this for
years and done it well.
Chairwoman Brinley - I assume then you will have no problem
with your meeting these conditions. I can see no problem then
meeting these things that the police have.
Commissioner Sellevold - Basically, it looks like a real good
plan and it would be great for Lake Elsinore to have something
like this - -bring some tourism back. I really don't see that
many things wrong at this point in time.
Commissioner Neff - Likewise, I think the City can benefit
from a proposal like this with the right kind of guidelines
adhered to. I want to focus on a couple of conditions just
for the benefit of the audience. So that they know that
perhaps some of the what may be a concern or issue I believe
is addressed to some extent in the Conditions of Approval, for
example:
• Item 3, hours operation will be limited to 8:00 a.m. to
9:00 p.m. on days when events will take place. I would
Presume that noise control would be mitigated basically
through those hours of operation.
• Comments given by the Police Department. I was curious to
know, if in the past you've retained private security at
all for various events and if you propose to do that for
any of these that you are proposing here.
Mr. Palmer - We have on a contract basis an arrangement with
Tri -Lake Security Company, they patrol the park on a regular
basis. The owner of the company, Jay Ruby, is an attorney and
an ex- policeman and he acts pretty much as a consultant to us
on these kinds of affairs. If it is looks as though, in his
judgement, we have a need for additional security service he
supplies it for us, which is every seldom, I might add. But
we do have that professionalism as far as the security field
goes that supports what we are doing.
Commissioner Neff - I presume there is some flexibility in the
Conditions of Approval for the Community Development Manager
to review performance over time, and should we get feed back
from the community that we are having some security breeches
or problems like that, I would imagine then, you would be
responsive to those concerns; otherwise the CUP might be
jerked.
Mr. Palmer - It doesn't do anything for anybody.
Commissioner Neff - I was not real clear on exactly how many
parking spaces you have allocated, and where you park the
vehicles for the boat traffic that comes in on weekends.
Historically, where they've parked and where in the future.
Mr. Palmer, referring to Exhibit "A"- -area crosshatched is the
boat parking area and we have spaces there for 200 vehicles
and trailers, approximately 400 vehicles. At this point in
time, we are not doing very much with boat races or launching
so the parking is available for the other events as they
..........._.... .
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 6
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
happen. Also, indicated the additional areas to be used for
parking, and stated that they could easily accommodate up to
500 cars. I don't anticipate that we will have any need for
anything of that nature.
Commissioner Neff - Vehicle access off of Riverside Drive for
weekend events being limited to the one closest to the
Farmer's Market?
Mr. Palmer - The one closest to the Farmer's market has been
blocked off, we simply don't need it. We will open it up for
the activities we are talking about here. Now, that still
leaves us a second access, referring to Exhibit "A"
illustrated location. We do have a guard shack where we can
control traffic and customers, if need be.
Commissioner Neff - The insurance issue was covered. Question
on the insurance, we will have a copy of that - -the certificate
with the City - -will the City be named as an additional
insured?
Mr. Palmer - I think that is the practice, yes. They are
already with the hang - gliders, but that is something that they
have done with their own organization. I would like to make
one point on that, if I may, concerning their involvement in
this. They had a regional fly -in, a month or so ago, and it
is the maximum kind of thing that they would have as far as
people go here in the Southern California area, they attracted
85 of their own folks and virtually no spectators. The only
concern that would be with their group is if they have a
national fly -in, and in the case of a national fly -in there
may be enough people so that we would want to get a special
permit for it. But as far as our on -going activities go, it
is low key in terms of people and I would hate to have our
present arrangement, which has been good for everybody, loused
up by what we are doing here.
Commissioner Gilenson - Generally, I am against granting a
blanket Conditional Use Permit to any facility, I feel that it
is setting a precedent for other applicants. I think that
granting of a blanket Conditional Use Permit should have some
direction from City Council as to whether or not they want
blanket Conditional Use Permits issued within the City.
Commissioner Gilenson - The letter from the Sheriff's Office,
in my opinion in reading it, tends to agree that there
shouldn't be a blanket CUP, but there should be a "each event"
application so that the Sheriff's Department can know what is
going on there, also so that we would know what is going on
there.
Commissioner Gilenson - In speaking with staff before the
meeting, I had brought up two Code Sections of our Municipal
Code, Section 5.60 dealing with Outdoor Festivals and 5.73
deals with Special Events. I understand that these two
Sections have been changed, although we have not received
copies of the change yet. With that said, I also want to ask
staff why do we do a blanket CUP, which based on the Code
Sections that I have, would seem like we are trying to usurp
the Code Sections by granting the blanket CUP. It gives us
less control over the event. We do not generate any revenue
from it, by granting a blanket. We would generate money from
either a Special Event Permit or a Outdoor Festival Event. In
light of the budget cuts, from the State and the Feds, I
believe the City needs to generate whatever revenue they can,
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 7
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
pursuant to Code, and I feel that we have this Code available
to us to generate some revenue and to control the events that
go out there. Also, to help the Sheriff's Department keep
track of what is going on out there and determine what safety
requirements are needed out there. I understand that Mr.
Palmer has a consultant who use to be an ex- officer, but still
we don't pay that person, we pay the Sheriff's Department to
look after the City's best interest not Mr. Palmer's.
Commissioner Gilenson - In the Findings, based on what we have
in the file, I cannot agree with Findings 2 and 4, based on
the letters that we have received from the people of adjoining
properties and the seniors that are in the area. I don't
believe that we can make Finding 2 and 4, which are: 2) That
the requested use, as proposed will not be detrimental to the
general health, safety, comfort, and welfare of the persons
residing in the neighboring area or the City. 4) That in
approving these uses as requested, there will not be an
adverse effect on abutting property because the site is
already an RV /Recreational Park. That is irrelevant whether
its a RV /Recreational Park. The events that Mr. Palmer is
suggesting are not normally a part of an RV /Recreational Park.
Also, the Staff Report states that these proposed uses are
minor in nature. I don't agree with that, I've been to street
fairs, car rallies, farmer's market and they have had large
attendances. Mr. Palmer is talking about he is use to having
500 -600 people on weekends with the lake and even cutting that
in half to 300 doesn't seem like a minor event to me. 300
people, I would feel that we need some type of Sheriff
intervention for crowd and traffic control.
Commissioner Gilenson reiterated that he would not be in favor
of this project.
Chairwoman Brinley - question of staff, does not believe we
are granting a blanket Conditional Use Permit, are we? The
Bungee Jumping and other requires him to get a Special Event
Permit.
City Planner Christen - Right, but it is a form of an all
encompassing situation. What we are trying to deal with is
not having Mr. Palmer coming back for every event and trying
to be sympathetic to possible hardships that he may have at
this point, and in that regard it is sort of all encompassing.
Yes, each individual event needs some sort of analysis also.
Commissioner Sellevold - asked staff, if he would have to come
in every week to get a permit, are we talking lots of time and
money, or what is the procedure on that?
Community Development Manager Shear - Under the Special Events
ordinance there is approximately 30 days lead time. So if he
was going to come in every week he would be coming in 30 days
prior to that weekend event. As part of the conditions,
Condition number 4 states that if he is going to attract more
than 100 people he has to notify and obtain the proper
clearances from the Fire, Sheriff's, and Health Departments,
if he has food involved. So, if this is a small Farmer's Fair
that will only be attracting people in the park, may bring out
weekenders who bring out their trailers and stay in the park
and utilize the Farmer's Fair, there is not going to be much
of a major impact, and you would probably stay under that 100
people. If it gets above that then he is going to have to
come in an getting clearances for Sheriff's, which is the
major one.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 8
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
Commissioner Gilenson - How this is determined?
Community Development Manager Shear - Like any event - -even
under the Special Event, what they state to us. If they go
over that then they can be shut down.
Commissioner Neff - Without being the 100 of what the minimum
weekend traffic load would be, or
Commissioner Gilenson - Is this more than 100 people?
Chairwoman Brinley - If I were to go in tomorrow to do a
farmer's fair and I put down 100 people, you would be relying
on me then if it was going to be above or if you can out there
and you see that there is more than 100 people and we have
some security provided that Code Enforcement or the Police
Department could then be called in or close it down.
Community Development Manager Shear - Like any event that we
have under the existing ordinances for special events, if the
person says that he is going to have 200 people and the
Sheriff's Department is anticipating 200 people and they go to
the event and there is 600 people and out of control they will
shut down the facility. Because they are not equipped to man
it, the people who put the event on its way over done, so they
would be shut down.
Chairwoman Brinley - Automatically?
Community Development Manager Shear - Automatically.
Commissioner Gilenson - If there was somebody there to enforce
it.
Community Development Manager Shear - The Sheriff's Depart-
ment.
Commissioner Gilenson - They are not going to be there.
Chairwoman Brinley - Someone could call them.
Community Development Manager Shear - The Sheriff's Depart-
ment would have to be notified of over 100 people.
Chairwoman Brinley - Asked Mr. Palmer if he understands that
anytime he has this event, the Farmer's Fair, you will have to
notify the Police Department, approximately 100 people.
Mr. Palmer - If that 100 people level is adhered to, then
would like to ask that it be changed - -if adhered to, we are
out of business. We will get 100 people at any one of these
Farmer's Fair in the course of a day. We are a business in
the area seeking to expand our endeavors, and we are doing it
in a straight forward positive way. We are looking to
accommodate 1,000 people a weekend, over and above our normal.
Chairwoman Brinley - You are looking to accommodate 1,000
people.
Mr. Palmer - This is correct and with our own staff. We have
done this for 12 years, already.
City Planner Christen - I think that we would try to look at
some sort of method of - -if there is going to be more than 100
people that it somehow, per that approval, occurs at staff
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 9
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
level including Police Department, Fire Department, Public
Safety, or whatever but rather than having to go to hearing
each time and lengthy staff reports and so forth.
Chairwoman Brinley - In other words, just deal at staff level.
City Planner Christen - Granted you would still - -may have some
time delay if you are going to get some response from the
Police Department.
Mr. Palmer - This is why we have our police force, we employee
these people because the Sheriff is just not effective.
Chairwoman Brinley - Part of the conditions are that you
contact the Police Department.
Mr. Palmer - this I can do, and there is no problem with that.
Chairwoman Brinley - and you do use police security in there.
Community Development Manager Shear - It is not stating that
he has to use the Sheriff's Department on a contractual basis.
Like most events, the Sheriff's Department will check who he
is using as private security; they will run checks on
everybody to make sure they are who they are, and do what they
are. The Sheriff may say that they need 5 more people to help
him man that and they would give him that direction.
City Planner Christen - A similar response as to what you have
there, of their concerns.
Commissioner Gilenson - That is why I suggested through the
Special Events Permit- -that doesn't come back to Commission.
That is through the City Manager's office, strictly
administrative with the City Manager or his designee giving
the approval.
Chairwoman Brinley - But on special activities doesn't it also
have to go before Council.
Community Development Manager Shear - as the ordinance is
changed, there is a committee set -up of Council and special
events, temporary outdoor activities will all encompass in one
ordinance. There is not two, it goes to Council committee or
Council on every activity.
Commissioner Gilenson - These are all wrong, then?
Community Development Manager Shear - Right, those ordinances
are null and void.
Commissioner Gilenson - Why haven't we been updated?
Community Development Manager Shear - Check with the City
Clerk's office.
Commissioner Sellevold - Condition number 4 is, basically 100
people over his normal everyday use, is this how I'm reading
this?
Commissioner Neff - That was my understanding.
Mr. Palmer - That must have been a typo, I think that it
should be a 1,000.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 10
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
City Planner Christen - No, it is 100.
Assistant Planner Villa - 100 above normal operations.
Commissioner Sellevold - It really doesn't state that if it is
100 people for 1 hour or 100 people for 15 minutes. If he is
having a farmer's market it looks like it is only going to be
a half block long, how long could 1 person be there? 25 -30
minutes and walk through it and they are going to leave. It
looks like - -the gentleman is talking maybe 1,000 people a day
that doesn't mean that we are going to have 1,000 people there
at 8:00 in the morning and all day.
Chairwoman Brinley - Talking about total circulation.
Commissioner Sellevold - Total circulation, so are we going to
need to have him spend more money for security because he
anticipates a 1,000 people a day.
Commissioner Gilenson - Using this as a window -its not just
a Farmer's Fair. A Farmer's Fair is just one section, he is
going to have a crafts fair in another section, a jazz band
set -up in another section.
Chairwoman Brinley and Commissioner Sellevold - Not on the
same day.
Commissioner Gilenson - On the weekend.
Chairwoman Brinley - Asked Mr. Palmer if he was going to have
all of these activities on the same day, all at once.
Mr. Palmer - Afraid not, no. The intent is that we have
certified Farmer's Market, which we contract with the farmers -
-a select list so we get a balance of product. They would be
there every Saturday for a year. In addition to that, each
Saturday - -don't know whether they can do this every Saturday
or not, but it is my desire each Saturday we have in addition
to that arts and craftsmen, perhaps an art show and I would
like to see a little bit of music every week - -not talking a
symphonic orchestra, I talking about a guitar player maybe.
Chairwoman Brinley - What we are trying to address here is, if
you are planning to have all of these events going on on a
Saturday -- having your Farmer's Market, classical music and
classical jazz, and then you are also going to be having
possibly an art show on the sam days, we are looking at over
100 people and this is what we are saying that you need to
have more security for public safety. That is what we are
trying to clear up, are you going to be running multiple
activities on Saturday and Sunday or are you going to be
rotating those activities?
Mr. Palmer - With the Farmer's Market every Saturday.
Chairwoman Brinley - The Farmer's Market is going to be there
every Saturday and then there will be one other activity
running with it.
Mr. Palmer - We might have the Farmer's Market and guitar
player along with maybe an art show or along with craftsmen.
I like the idea of a little bit of music along with the
Farmer's Market.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 11
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
Commissioner Gilenson - It goes from 1 to maybe 4 different
events.
Chairwoman Brinley - We are talking about the security and
public safety. In other words, how many people - -you would
have to be - -in other words, what we are asking - -you would need
do - -what I believe we need to do or have it in here that you
would be notifying the Police Department each week of the
activities that would be taking place that weekend. Giving
them enough response time to get back to you and tell you how
much security you are going to need to provide for that
weekend.
Mr. Palmer - Would be glad to.
Chairwoman Brinley - Would like to see this made as a
condition, condition number 11. In other words, if you knew
by Monday morning you would need to submit to the Police
Department the activities that will be going on the following
Saturday, so that they would have enough time to respond back
your security needs for that event.
Mr. Palmer - Would be glad to do it, yes. I think that you
are making a mountain out of a mole hill, but I will be glad
to do it.
Chairwoman Brinley - This is one of the things that they are
asking for anyway, and it helps provide for proper security
for the events. You can kind of judge, you will know what
activity is going to draw more people.
Mr. Palmer - Would like to suggest something else to, my
understanding of this is, that for the boat races, carnival
particularly we would be applying for the one shot deal on the
Special Event. On the Bungee Jumping, I understand that this
is now licensed by the State and no longer a consideration in
this.
Chairwoman Brinley - The Bungee Jumping, we would really have
no control that goes back to the Council's special committee
that would be issuing permits and we would have nothing to do
with that.
Commissioner Sellevold - Lets forget about the Conditional Use
Permit for a second, if you were running your park - -your
marina, how many people could you put in it on an average
weekend - -not average, I mean if you filled it full when would
you have to turn people away?
Mr. Palmer - About 650.
Commissioner Sellevold - 650 people or 650 units.
Mr. Palmer - 650 people. We have 300 RV sites. I might
mention that I am paying a business license /permit for those.
Commissioner Sellevold - 300 RV sites, how many boats, can you
bring more boats in on a weekend. I am asking for a total
amount of people.
Mr. Palmer - 1,700.
Commissioner Sellevold - 1,700 and we are talking basically
maybe 1,000 people a day for these special events.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 12
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
Mr. Palmer - 1,700 people could reasonably be in out park and
was in our park 2 years ago on a Saturday and Sunday during
the summer months. This is what I am accustom to working
with.
Commissioner Bullard - What we are trying to do is get a
clarification on your capacity as a business and as our item
4 here says above normal operations of 100 people. If your
maximum is 1,750 people and this permit comes in you could
have 1,850 people there before you would have to notify
Riverside County Fire and Sheriff, this is the way I
understand it, and what we are trying to clarify.
Mr. Palmer - If that is the understanding.
Commissioner Gilenson - That is ridiculous.
Commissioner Sellevold - Why is it ridiculous - -if he runs a
business and if that is what he can hold now without security
and without special concerns.
Commissioner Gilenson - You are talking two different things- -
pulling a trailer in there and parking for the weekend or
going to an event -- Farmer's Market, jazz concert - -that is two
different ball games.
Commissioner Sellevold - No it is not.
Chairwoman Brinley - He is already use to dealing with - -2
years ago he was dealing with 1,700 people coming in to launch
and stay there.
Mr. Palmer - 10 years on a weekend basis.
Chairwoman Brinley - Then again, he had no problem with the
condition I wanted added in there notifying the Police
Department.
Mr. Palmer - If you insist on it then we will do it. Not
because it makes any sense, not because there is anything that
they will need to do. But if it is a formality that I have to
go through, I'll do it gladly and do it well.
Commissioner Sellevold - Do you see where I'm coming from - -if
he can handle that many people himself we are just adding more
work and problems for the City to deal with. He is handling
that now, and if the economy was up and he was handling that
every weekend now, I don't see why'we would have to make him
do more than what he is doing now.
Chairwoman Brinley - Where the Farmer's Fair Market is to be,
what kind of stalls, are they going to be temporary, are they
going to be there all of the time - -what are we looking at, are
we looking at something that is going to be under
construction?
Mr. Palmer - They are temporary and they are there just for
the duration - -the farmers each bring their own.
Chairwoman Brinley - In other words, when they leave that
evening, after the event, they will be taking everything with
them.
Mr. Palmer - There are 50 -75 of these fairs going on in the
Southern California area.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 13
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
Chairwoman Brinley - Nothing will be left up during the week- -
that is what I want, that they will be taken down at that
point.
Mr. Palmer - Absolutely not.
Chairwoman Brinley - Riverside Drive, I do not want to see any
parking on Riverside Drive. I want to see it all on -site, and
this added as a condition.
Mr. Palmer - It is posted and we have an entrance and exit
right next to the park.
Chairwoman Brinley - Expecting with your security that this
does not occur and would like to put this as a condition that
there will be no parking on Riverside Drive on either side of
the street. This is a hazard with people crossing the street.
Mr. Palmer - Agrees with this completely.
Chairwoman Brinley - In the front on Riverside Drive where the
fair is to take place, the fencing. Would like to see some
kind of fencing, because you will be having children in there
and being as Riverside Drive is a busy thoroughfare there I
have visions of a child getting away and running out into the
street. For public safety, I think that this is one issue
that needs to be addressed - -the type of fencing to be put up
to contain the people on this side.
Mr. Palmer - Asked about the use of something called snow
fencing, temporary fencing arrangement.
Chairwoman Brinley - Since it does face - -has a visual impact
on the City because you are coming down a major thoroughfare
there would like to see something nice out there.
Mr. Palmer - This would be during the hours of the fair.
Assistant Planner Villa stated we could add a condition to
alleviate the concern, to provide a fence entirely around the
perimeter of the Farmer's Market area.
Chairwoman Brinley - Temporary fencing, and that would be
like - -I'm not familiar with the snow fencing at all. Are you
talking about the aluminum slats that go down.
Mr. Palmer - These are wood slats, they are maybe 2 -3 inches
wide, and the fence itself about yea high, and the slats are
just vertical and the fence all rolls up.
Chairwoman Brinley asked if this would be acceptable to the
other Commissioners and staff.
Commissioner Gilenson stated he had no comment and the other
Commissioners and staff stated that this fencing was
acceptable. Chairwoman Brinley stated that she would like to
see this added as a condition, and this shall be maintained
during the hours of operation of the Farmer's Market.
Chairwoman Brinley - I was at the facility the other day.
Asked if the classical concerts are to be held at the Club-
house. Asked Mr. Palmer if he had read the Conditions of
Approval, stating that the only music that could be played
there is classical music and classical jazz.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 14
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
Mr. Palmer - I would like a little more leeway, if we can- -
that is our intent, but we are looking at other things too.
If you want to exclude rock music /rock concerts that would be
fine.
City Planner Christen - Believe you could say what isn't allow
as opposed to what is allowed. You could say no heavy metal
hard rock, rap.
Mr. Palmer - I would like to be in a position to approach
Council for special permission for that kind of thing.
Chairwoman Brinley - You would have to approach Council, that
would be Special Activity. So at this point, we would be
looking at no heavy metal, rap, or hard rock.
City Planner Christen - Rather than add condition number 11,
could we just beef up number 4 to do the same thing.
Chairwoman Brinley - That was fine.
Chairwoman Brinley - Traffic circulation upon leaving and
entering - -there will be an attendant there to assist with
traffic, am I correct in assuming that you will have someone
there to make sure - -and I'm talking about exiting. What I
would like to see done here is, that we have the exiting done
totally to the right.
Mr. Palmer - What about a sign that says right turn only.
Chairwoman Brinley - That is true, but sometimes you need to
have an attendant there.
Mr. Palmer - If we put this in as a condition can spell out
when this person will be there and under what conditions.
Chairwoman Brinley - He will be there under your operational
hours -- probably, during the working hours -- didn't you say the
fair was going to be starting at 9:00 in the morning.
Mr. Palmer - 8:00 in the morning to 9:00 at night.
Commissioner Neff - Wouldn't that be related to the special
events and the traffic control plan that he would review with
the Kevin, or not.
Chairwoman Brinley - Basically no, I don't think so, it would
be a problem with the Farmer's Market and people would be
coming and leaving out of there. My concern is that people
leaving are not holding up and rushing out there and causing
a traffic accident. That they exit to the right and that you
have an attendant during that time just to make sure that
traffic flows. What we are trying to decide here are the
hours - -what do you feel? Asked Mr. Palmer what time the
market opened.
Mr. Palmer - From 8:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m.- -9:00 a.m. to 1:00
p.m.
Chairwoman Brinley - The Farmer's Market will be closed down
by 1:00 or 2:00.
Mr. Palmer - It is a tentative 4 hours, but hoping that we
will have some other activities going on there so that it will
go till maybe mid - afternoon.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 15
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
Commissioner Neff - As need requires- -that is real subjective
I realize, but
Chairwoman Brinley - Could we put as needed to be required,
Robert.
Commissioner Bullard - I'm still thinking on that and it
should be as required and I think the Sheriff's office would
be involved in that type of decision to.
Chairwoman Brinley - That is true they will be, but I would
just like to put it as per requirement. How would we word
this?
Commissioner Bullard - Each day could be different -- different
hours for each day and I think
Chairwoman Brinley - Could we put the requirement in, but
leave it at the police's discretion of when.
Commissioner Bullard - As a judgement call by Mr. Palmer and
his security, and by placing a right turn only sign onto
Riverside Drive on your private property.
Chairwoman Brinley - Lets put a condition in there then, right
turn only sign be posted Saturday and Sunday only.
Community Development Manager Shear - You can put on one of
those traffic control A -frame devices, sit it in the lane that
normally people who try to go straight make a left put it in
that lane there and force them to make the right hand turn.
Chairwoman Brinley - You understand what he is talking about,
Mr. Palmer.
Mr. Palmer - No.
Chairwoman Brinley - You put in right turn in on Saturday and
Sunday, which means you can remove the sign Sunday evening
after everyone has left.
Mr. Palmer - Do it just during the time of the activity.
Chairwoman Brinley - Yes, during the activity - -any activity
that you have planned for either Saturday or Sunday you must
have your sign up that says right turn only onto Riverside
Drive and this added as condition 13.
Chairwoman Brinley - When I was out there viewing your
property I assume when I was, Armando will you show him on the
map, the area where you told he that the fair and carnivals
was going to - -down there by that little inlet that he has,
which' I think is very nice picnic tables. Now, that area
there, this is where you are going to have the carnivals,
cook -off.
Mr. Palmer - If we were going to have a carnival it would
probably be in that area, that is correct - -yes.
Chairwoman Brinley - While I was there I noticed that you had
trailers and some - -a couple of trailers, a truck and a fifth -
wheeler I believe on the back - -the back of the truck and a
storage bend.
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 16
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
Assistant Planner Villa utilizing Exhibit "A" illustrated the
location being discussed.
Commissioner Bullard - The other area looked like the landing
field for the hang - gliders.
Mr. Palmer - Yeah, the other area is hang - gliding landing
area, but the area you are talking about here - -yes, there are
some street vehicles stored up along the top. Those would be
moved.
Chairwoman Brinley - Those will be removed.
Mr. Palmer - Yeah, they won't be there during the course of
this activity.
Chairwoman Brinley - Would like to add this in as a condition
that they do be moved out of that area, because there was a
storage bend, a couple of trailers, a truck and I believe a
trailer was connected to the back of that or something, so as
a condition.
Mr. Palmer - it is property -- people that are gone for 2 -3 or
a month or two and they come back and we just store them there
while they are gone.
Chairwoman Brinley - Lets find another area - -that is an area
that you are going to need to correct.
Mr. Palmer - That we can do - -no problem at all.
Commissioner Neff - Just another question, I am curious, I
don't know that we have any other active theater group in Lake
Elsinore area and you have considered that as one of the
activities. I see on the map itself, it says Hamlet on the
Green. Have you investigated the possibility of plays or
summer stock.
Mr. Palmer - I have been interested in promoting a summer
stock kind of a activity in Lake Elsinore, not necessarily to
be done in our park, cause we don't have the facilities for
the whole thing. But I would like to find a little barn
someplace so that we can do the whole thing the way they do
back in New England. This is what I would like to do, but
that would be a separate enterprise from what we are talking
here. To the extend that we can have things like the Hamlet
on the Green - -we can do that. A full blow enterprise would be
a lot of fun, but we don't have the capacity for it here.
Chairwoman Brinley - Armando, can you tell me the area so that
I can pin point this down in this condition - -to remove the
storage from area, what is that area right in there called or
numbered?
City Planner Christen - It is about where it says Street Fair,
referring to Exhibit "A ".
Mr. Palmer - Right along the fence there right along those
trees is where she is talking about - -yeah, there and over to
the left. They're an eyesore, I would agree to that - -we would
want to get those out of there.
Chairwoman Brinley - The others that I had here was - -don't
know if it has been addressed -- regarding restrooms, how many
do you have on site? How many stalls in each building?
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 17
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
Mr. Palmer - Two buildings. We have in the men's building
behind the Pavilion, there are 3 stalls and 2 urinals for men
and there are 4 stalls for women. In the other restroom
Chairwoman Brinley - How about something that would be close
to the Farmer's Market? Do you have anything that would be
available to them without having
Mr. Palmer - The other restroom, I don't know what the count
is on that one but it is larger.
Chairwoman Brinley - Would you point out for the audience
where the Farmer's Fair would be located and then the
restrooms again are right up there.
Mr. Palmer - The State or County - -we have to license to have
something like
Chairwoman Brinley - Yes, they will give you the actual
number.
Mr. Palmer - Is concerned about that, yes and they do meet the
requirements I might add.
Chairwoman Brinley - Gentlemen are there any other questions
that you would like to ask Mr. Palmer this evening.
Commissioner Sellevold - None here.
Chairwoman Brinley - Any further discussion on this matter at
this time. I think that we have covered everything, thank you
Mr. Palmer.
Mr. Palmer - May I make one comment on one of the letters you
got about security. I think one is appropriate from the man
that owns Butterfield and he was talking about people jumping
over the fence and that sort of thing.
Chairwoman Brinley - We don't have that letter sir - -that was
just a comment we heard - -it came to us I believe it was just- -
I only heard - -are we talking about people jumping over the
fence and supposedly
Mr. Palmer - Yes, and the only comment that I would like to
make is that the folks from Butterfield are in a problem as we
are having a problem, as many other businesses up and down
Riverside Drive are having a problem with thief, with minor
things being stolen, with a bunch of rather shabby kinds of
folks that are up and down there that have been driven out of
downtown; so we are told, when the downtown are increased
their police coverage. We all have a concern about that and
Butterfield has expressed their concerns to be about it to,
but we don't claim to have any responsibility for any of that.
Chairwoman Brinley - Any further discussion. There being no
further discussion, Chairwoman Brinley called for a motion.
COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD MOVED TO APPROVE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
92 -8 AT ELSINORE WEST MARINA WITH THE CHANGES TO CONDITION
NUMBER 1 WITH NO HARD ROCK MUSIC AND ALL THAT; NUMBER 4, TO
READ ABOVE NORMAL- -MORE THAN 100 PEOPLE ABOVE NORMAL
APPLICATION AND THEN ALSO TO HAVE THE POLICE NOTICED THAT
NUMBER 4 CONDITION NOTICE TO THE POLICE OKAY; CONDITION NUMBER
11, BE THE TEMPORARY SNOW FENCE FOR THE HOURS OF OPERATION ON
RIVERSIDE DRIVE; CONDITION NUMBER 12, NO PARKING ON RIVERSIDE
Minutes of Planning Commission
September 16, 1992
Page 18
Conditional Use Permit 92 -8 Continued
DRIVE; CONDITION NUMBER 13, RIGHT TURN ONLY ON SATURDAY AND
SUNDAY ONLY WHICH WOULD BE A TEMPORARY SIGN DURING OPERATIONAL
HOURS; CONDITION NUMBER 14, ALL STORAGE WOULD BE REMOVED FROM
THE STREET FAIR AREA.
Chairwoman Brinley - the only thing that I would like to add
to condition number 4, at this point, was the part about the
notification to the Police Department on Monday for the
following Saturday activities.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER NEFF.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for any further discussion. There
being no further discussion she called for the question.
Approved 4 -1 (Commissioner Gilenson voting no)
BUSINESS ITEMS
NONE
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Bullard
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Neff
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Sellevold
Glad that somebody is bringing some other things to the City,
thinks this is a good idea and glad that we approved it.
Commissioner Neff stated that he agrees to, and with the proper
controls as we have outlined in the conditions, I think this could
be an inspiration to the community.
Chairwoman Brinley
Nothing to report.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 8:35 p.m., motion by Commissioner Bullard,
second by Commissioner Sellevold.
Approved 5 -0
Respectfully Su mitted,
Ain Grindstaff
Secretary
Pamela Bri ley V
Chairwoman
MINUTES OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE 7TH DAY OF OCTOBER 1992
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Neff.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Neff, Sellevold, Bullard
and Brinley
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS:
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, City Planner
Christen, Associate Planner De Gange and Assistant Planner Villa.
MINUTE ACTION
Commissioner Neff requested the following corrections:
Page 5, 4th paragraph, 4 line: correct typographical error.
Page 5, 8th paragraph: My intent was, I presume there is some
flexibility in the Conditions of Approval for the Community
Development Manager to review performance over time, and
should we get feed back from the community that we are having
some security breeches or problems like that, I would imagine
then, you would be responsive to those concerns; otherwise the
CUP might be jerked.
Page 6, 4th paragraph, 3 line: correct typographical error.
Page 16, 10th paragraph, last sentence: My intent was, Have
you investigated the possibility of plays or summer stock.
Page 18, correct Second: Second by Neff.
Motion by Commissioner Bullard to approve Minutes of September 16,
1992, with the above corrections, second by Commissioner Neff.
Approved 5 -0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no request to speak, Chairwoman Brinley closed the
PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
NONE
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Sign Program for Commercial Project 89 -1 (Ritz Garden Plaza) -
Associate Planner De Gange presented a request for a Sign
Program and a freestanding monument sign for Ritz Garden
Plaza, located at 265 San Jacinto River Road. He then
requested that Section 2.D. be amended as follows: Letters
shall be maximum of 18" in height. Each tenant shall have a
maximum of 1 square foot of sign area for each lineal foot of
leased width.
Chairwoman Brinley asked if there was anyone representing the
applicant and if there were any concerns.
Mr. Ray Bush, representing Artech Signs, stated the applicant
is also requesting signage facing the freeway. He further
stated that they are in agreement with the conditions.
Commissioner Bullard commented on the width of signage from
the building, and this not being current with the recently
approved Sign Code, Section 17.94.170. Would like to see if
this can be reduced to meet the six -inch requirement.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 7, 1992
Page 2
Sian Program for Commercial Project 89 -1 Continued
Discussion ensued on the width of signage and race -way; race-
way to match the building; design of building requiring the
construction of the race -way to house electrical and
transformers.
Commissioner Sellevold commented on Section 2.D. of the Sign
Criteria, regarding maximum height and requested a uniform
size. He then suggested the following language be added to
Section 2.D and Condition number l.c.: All letters shall be
eighteen inches in height or two rows totaling eighteen
inches.
Commissioner Neff commented on condition number 5, regarding
the planter and whether this will have irrigation.
Commissioner Gilenson suggested that condition number 5 be
incorporated into the Sign Criteria, add as 2.I.7 and also
moved to Condition 1.d. He then suggested that condition
number 2 be amended as follows: Any amendment to the approved
Sign Criteria shall be submitted by the master developer or
center owner, individual tenants shall not be allowed to
submit amendments, in writing for review and approval by the
Community Development Manager.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for discussion on the applicant's
request for signage on the second floor facing the freeway.
Commissioner Neff stated this is addressed by condition number
1.b.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD TO APPROVE THE SIGN PROGRAM
AND THE FREESTANDING MONUMENT SIGN FOR COMMERCIAL PROJECT 89 -1
BASED UPON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS OF
APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT WITH THE FOLLOWING
AMENDMENTS:
Condition No. 1.c.: Add to Section 2.D. that if a tenant
space has more than one frontage, these
frontages may not be combined to permit a
larger sign than what is permitted for
any one building frontage. Letters shall
be maximum of 18" in height. Each tenant
shall have a maximum of 1 square foot of
sign area for each lineal foot of leased
width. All letters shall be eighteen
inches in height or two rows totaling
eighteen inches.
l.d: A 100 square foot planter with a minimum
dimension of five feet (51) shall be
provided at the base of the monument
sign. The landscape plan for the planter
area shall be consistent with the overall
project landscaping scheme and shall be
subject to the approval of the Community
Development Manager or designee. Plans
must be approved prior to issuance of
building or sign permits.
Condition No. 2: Any amendment to the approved Sign
Criteria shall be submitted by the master
developer or center owner, individual
tenants shall not be allowed to submit
amendments, in writing for review and
approval by the Community Development
Manager.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER NEFF.
Approved 4 -1 (Commissioner Bullard voting no)
Planning Commission Minutes
October 7, 1992
Page 3
2. Residential Project 92 -4 and Models - Tava Development -
Assistant Planner Villa presented for Design Review two (2)
model homes (model complex will be built on Lots 2, 3 and 4 of
TM 24213 -1), and plotting for Phase One. The site is located
approximately 1/4 mile east of the intersection of Lincoln and
Grand Avenue.
Chairwoman Brinley asked if there was anyone representing the
applicant and if there were any concerns.
Mr. Scott Allen, Tava Development, stated they are satisfied
with the Conditions of Approval with the exception of two
conditions. He then requested clarification on condition
number 21.g., pertaining to Xeriscape, and stated they plan on
using drought tolerant plants, sod, and automatic irrigation.
Chairwoman Brinley defined the use of Xeriscape landscaping,
and asked if landscape plans have been submitted. Mr. Allen
responded in the negative.
Assistant Planner Villa stated the condition calls for Xeri-
scape, but this was discussed with the City's Landscape
Architect and he agreed that it was not necessary for two
models. If they were to submit another model they would have
to provide Xeriscape.
Mr. Allen then questioned condition number 26, regarding
fencing. He requested this condition be excluded, so that the
fence can be placed on the curb and the sidewalk used for
circulation within the model complex.
Commissioner Neff inquired about the location of the models,
and then commented on:
• condition number 21, suggested combination drip and /or
conventional irrigation.
• condition 21.a., regarding street trees, whether this is
a standard condition.
Community Development Manager Shear responded this is a
standard condition.
• condition 23, fencing not visible from the right -of -way,
may be wood. Whether the wood fence is to be painted or
left natural.
Community Development Manager Shear responded that wood fences
not visible from the right -of -way are not required to be
painted or stained.
condition 26, regarding applicant's request on fencing.
Depending on the circulation, pedestrian traffic, it
doesn't seem that the location would be a concern.
Community Development Manager Shear suggested adding language
subject to the approval of the Community Development Manager
and City Engineer.
Commissioner Gilenson commented on condition number 4, and
suggested that where it refers to approval of the Community
Development Manager that it be changed to Planning Commission.
Considerable discussion ensued on condition number 4, pertain-
ing to Commissioner Gilenson's request to amend; definition of
major and minor alterations and who determines, and giving the
Community Development Manager discretion up to a certain
Planning Commission Minutes
October 7, 1992
Page 4
Residential Project 92 -4 and Models Continued
percentage for change of total mix and establishing a standard
percentage; the need for flexibility due to the market.
Commissioner Gilenson commented on:
condition 21.d., should reflect one year.
condition 21.g., this is being stricken, correct?
condition number 26, suggested amendment to read:
Tubular steel fence that surrounds models shall be
subject to the approval of the Community Development
Manager and City Engineer or designees, prior to issuance
of building permit, and shall be removed prior to
residential occupancy of the model home.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for clarification on condition number
26.
Community Development Shear stated that before the models can
be occupied the tubular fence will have to be removed.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD TO APPROVE RESIDENTIAL
PROJECT 92 -4 BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO THE
CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT WITH THE
FOLLOWING AMENDMENTS:
Condition No. 21. All front yards and side yards on corner
lots shall be properly landscaped with
automatic (manual or electric) irrigation
system to provide 100% plant and grass
coverage using a combination of drip
and /or conventional irrigation methods.
The final landscaping/ irrigation plan is
to be reviewed and approved by the City's
Landscape Architect Consultant and the
Community Development Manager or
designee. A Landscape Plan Check Fee
will be charged prior to final landscape
approval based on the Consultant's fee
plus forty percent (40 %).
Condition No. 21.d: All landscape improvements on the model
home complex shall be bonded 120%
Faithful Performance Bond, and released
at completion of installation of land -
scape requirements approval /acceptance,
and bond 100% for material and labor for
one (1) year.
Condition No. 21.g: ene of the prepesed lets of the ;aaa�l
eemplex shall ? ha Xeri seape i and ci nnneje
identifying previded
3n� DELETE
Condition No. 26: Tubular steel fence that surrounds models
shall be subject to the approval of the
Community Development Manager and City
Engineer or designees, prior to issuance
of building permit, and shall be removed
prior to residential occupancy of the
model home.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BULLARD.
Approved 4 -1 (Commissioner Gilenson voting no)
Planning Commission Minutes
October 7, 1992
Page 5
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Bullard
Commented on the letter received from Princess Mirara of the
Reconnaissance Group.
Commissioner Sellevold
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Neff
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Gilenson
Moved for adjournment.
Chairwoman Brinle
Nothing to report.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 8:06 p.m., motion by Commissioner Gilenson,
second by Commissioner Neff.
Approved 5 -0
Respectfully S bmitted,
Linda Grindstaff
Secretary
Ap ro ed,
Pamela Brin ey
Chairwom n
MINUTES
HELD ON THE
OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
21ST DAY OF
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:10 P.M.
OCTOBER 1992
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Sellevold.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Neff, Sellevold, Bullard
and Brinley
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: None
Also present were City Planner Christen, Associate Planner De Gange
Assistant Planner Villa, and Engineering Manager O'Donnell.
MINUTE ACTION
Moved by Commissioner Bullard, Second by Commissioner Sellevold to
approve Minutes of October 7, 1992, with the following correction:
Page 1, last paragraph - Section 17.94.160 should be 17.94.170.
Approved 5 -0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no request to speak, Chairwoman Brinley closed the
PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. General Plan Amendment 92 -3 and Zone Code Amendment 92 -3 -
City of Lake Elsinore - A General Plan Amendment to implement
the "Historic Downtown Land Use Plan", and Zone Code Amendment
establishing the Historic Downtown Overlay District and the
associated Historic Downtown Design Standards. The area is
generally bounded to the north by Collier Avenue and Inter-
state 15, to the south by Lakeshore Drive, the west by Chaney
Street, and the east by Grove Avenue, Conklin Avenue and
Rupard Street.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER BULLARD, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER
SELLEVOLD TO CONTINUE GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 92 -3 AND ZONE
CODE AMENDMENT 92 -3 TO DECEMBER 2, 1992.
Approved 5 -0
2. Annexation 64, General Plan Amendment 92 -2, and Zone Change
92 -5 - William and Rosalyne Hall (Entec Consultants, Inc.) -
Annexation and prezoning of 87 acres, and an amendment to the
General Plan Land Use Map changing a total of 33 acres from
Freeway Business and Business Park to General Commercial. The
site is located at the northwestern corner of Central Avenue
and Dexter Avenue.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER NEFF
TO CONTINUE ANNEXATION 64, GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 92 -2, AND
ZONE CHANGE 92 -5 TO DECEMBER 2, 1992.
Approved 5 -0
3. Annexation 52 Revised, General Plan Amendment 92 -1, and Zone
Change 92 -2 - Hunsaker & Associates (Robert R. Dyer and Linda
D. Wynn) - Associate Planner De Gange presented a request for
Annexation of 140 acres; General Plan Amendment changing 20
acres from Very Low Density to Low Medium Density; Zone Change
92 -2 to pre -zone 140 acres to: 20 acres of R -1 (Single - Family
Residential) and 120 acres of R -R (Rural Residential). The
site is bounded by Scenic Crest Drive to the north, Ramsgate
Specific Plan Area to the west and south, and Tuscany Hills
Specific Plan Area to the east.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 21, 1992
Page 2
ANNEXATION 52 REVISED, GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 92 -1, AND ZONE CHANGE
92 -2 CONTINUED
Chairwoman Brinley opened the public hearing at 7:17 p.m., and
asked for any written communication. The Secretary reported
no written communications. She then asked for anyone wishing
to speak in favor.
Mr. William Grimes, of J.F. Davidson, representing Wynn /Dyer,
stated they have reviewed the Staff Report and concur with
staff recommendation. He then stated he would answer any
questions that may arise.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for anyone else wishing to speak in
favor. Receiving no response, she asked for those opposed.
Receiving no response, she asked for anyone wishing to speak
on the matter. Receiving no response, the public hearing was
closed at 7:20 p.m.
Commissioner Neff asked to be excused due to possible conflict
of interest.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for discussion at the table, there
being no discussion she called for a motion.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER BULLARD, SECOND BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY
TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL ADOPTION OF MITIGATED NEGATIVE
DECLARATION 92 -8.
Approved 4 -0 (Commissioner Neff excused)
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD, SECOND BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY
TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF COMMENCEMENT OF
PROCEEDINGS FOR ANNEXATION 52 REVISED BASED ON THE FINDINGS
LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
Approved 4 -0 (Commissioner Neff excused)
MOVED BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD
TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF GENERAL PLAN AMEND-
MENT 92 -1 AND ZONE CHANGE 92 -2 BASED ON THE FINDINGS LISTED IN
THE STAFF REPORT, AND ADOPT RESOLUTION 92 -7, ENTITLED AS
FOLLOWS:
RESOLUTION NO. 92 -7
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA RECOMMENDING
TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF GENERAL PLAN
AMENDMENT 92 -1 FOR THE AMENDMENT OF THE LAND
USE ELEMENT OF THE 1990 GENERAL PLAN TO
REDESIGNATE 20 ACRES FROM VERY LOW DENSITY TO
LOW MEDIUM DENSITY
Commissioner Gilenson commented on Page 2 of the Resolution
recommending that the roll call vote be changed to electronic
vote.
There being no further discussion, Chairwoman Brinley called
for the question.
Approved 4 -0 (Commissioner Neff excused)
At this time, Commissioner Neff returned to the table.
BUSINESS ITEMS
4. Residential Project 92 -5 - Premier Homes - Assistant Planner
Villa presented a request for Design Review of 5 model homes
Planning Commission Minutes
October 21, 1992
Page 3
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 92 -5 CONTINUED
on a portion of Tract 22912, and plotting approval. The site
is located on Lincoln Street northwest of Machado and south-
east of Grand Avenue. He then presented an Amendment to the
Staff Report modifying section of said report, and amending
condition number 8 and adding condition number 30.
Commissioner Gilenson commented on the model plans and
inquired as to why an enhanced model is not being provided,
and suggested a scaled down model be displayed in the sales
office.
Commissioner Neff commented on condition number 30, with
regard to the trail system and how this connects with the rest
of the community, and storm drain connections.
Commissioner Bullard commented on the decorative block wall to
be constructed along the trail system, condition number 8, and
referred to Exhibit "F ". Concern is that the passage or
fencing is installed to the request of the residents in that
area.
Commissioner Sellevold commented on the decorative block wall
and the six -foot wide opening and location, condition number
8. Requested a condition be added that if the wall is taken
down it will be replaced with a certain type gate or something
that looks good.
Discussion ensued on the six -foot decorative wall with regard
to the number of openings, location, the removal of said wall
and the need for a triggering mechanism, and amending condi-
tion by adding "prior to removal, a plan must receive approval
from the Community Development Manager ". The need to define
condition number 8.b. and 8.c with regard to the wall, and the
applicant meeting with the property owners to see if an
alternative fence /wall would be acceptable.
Commissioner Sellevold commented on condition number 7,
whether this is to match the existing fence, suggested
amending the condition to match existing fencing. Condition
number 30.a., with regard to the three -foot block wall along
Shirley continuing all the way to the property line, and 30.d,
with regard to the waist -high peeler post or log fence to be
constructed from the trail east to Lot 28 and connect to the
trail.
Mr. Doug Woodward, stated that he believes Lot 28 is now Lot
39.
Discussion ensued on condition number 30.d., regarding type of
fencing to be provided, where the block wall would stop and
this being subject to approval of the Community Development
Manager or designee. Plotting on Lot 40 and rear yard privacy.
Commissioner Sellevold then commented on the statistical
summary with regard to square footage and percentage, and the
elevations illustrating only two -car garages.
Discussion ensued on the six -foot decorative block wall to be
constructed along the trail system, condition number 8;
whether there is a Homeowner's Association; the location of
the opening being left up to the homeowner /property owner, and
adding a condition that Premier Homes or the homeowner assume
responsibility.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 21, 1992
Page 4
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 92 -5 CONTINUED
It was the consensus of the Commission to condition the
proposal to petition the Community Development Manager or
designee for an opening or an alternative to the opening.
Commissioner Bullard stated he would like to add a condition
that Premier Homes petition the homeowners, that this will
affect, for their input and bring back to the Community
Development Manager for approval.
Doug Woodward, Premier Homes, questioned condition number 9,
pertaining to the treatment of windows and requested that this
apply to the upper level homes, Plan 3. He then questioned
condition number 24.a., regarding placement of street trees
and 24.d, regarding landscape bonding.
Discussion ensued on condition number 9, amending to reflect
visibility from public right -of -way; condition number 24.a,
amend by adding language subject to the approval of City's
Landscape Architect and Community Development Manager, and
clarification was given on condition number 24.d.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD AND SECOND BY COMMISSIONER
NEFF TO APPROVE RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 92 -5 BASED ON THE FINDINGS
AND SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF
REPORT WITH THE FOLLOWING AMENDMENTS:
Approval is for Plotting on 92 lots.
Condition No. 7: A six foot (61) high decorative block
wall with pilasters shall be constructed
along the boundary line of Lincoln Street
to match existing block wall that is in
place now, in that from the park through
the Fire Station is subject to the
Community Development Manager's approval.
Condition No. 8: As approved by the City Council, Determi-
nation of Substantial Conformance of
Revised Tentative Tract Map 22912 on
September 12, 1989, the following
conditions shall be fully complied with:
a) A six foot (61) high decorative wall
shall be constructed on Terra Cotta
Road along the La Laguna line from
Lincoln to Approximately "A" now
Versailles Street. From approxi-
mately "A" now Versailles Street to
Terra Cotta, the wall shall be
stepped down from six feet (61) to
three (31) feet.
b) Provide for a six foot (6') wide
opening in the six foot (61) high
block wall along the rear property
lines of the existing parcels
located between La Gaye and Pierre,
in order to provide for future
access to an existing fifteen foot
(151) easement for a multi - purpose
trail. However, staff recommends
that the opening be either blocked
or contain cold joints to allow for
future removal of the wall section
upon such time that the trail
easement is actually utilized.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 21, 1992
Page 5
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 92 -5 CONTINUED
C) Provide a six foot (61) wide opening
at the existing private easement at
the rear property line of existing
parcels between La Gaye and
Zieglinde to provide access to the
sixteen foot (161) equestrian trail.
d) Continue the trail easement
northerly along Terra Cotta to its
junction with Washington Avenue. In
addition to the extension, the
applicant shall stop the three (31)
high block wall approximately three
(3) feet short of the property
boundary at Washington to provide
for access from an existing
easement.
e) Construct a six foot (6') high wall,
instead of wood fence, along the
west side of the sixteen foot (161)
wide equestrian trail running along
Terra Cotta from "A" now Versailles
Street to Washington Avenue.
f) Prior to construction of the six -
foot decorative block wall Premier
Homes shall petition the neighboring
property owners on La Gaye, Saint
Pierre, Shirley and Zieglinde to
determine the design. If any
property owner wishes to alter the
construction of the block wall (by
placing an opening or alternative to
the opening) they must submit a plan
and receive approval from the
Community Development Manager.
Condition No. 9: All windows larger than one foot (11) by
one foot (11) on all side and rear
elevations visible from public right -of-
way, with the exceptions of those windows
already utilizing treatments such as
ledges or mullions, shall incorporate
stucco surrounds.
Condition No. 24.a: Applicant shall plant street trees,
selected from the City's Street Tree
List, a maximum of thirty -feet (301)
apart and at least twenty- four -inch (2411)
box in size, subject to the approval of
the City's Landscape Architect and
Community Development Manager.
Condition No. 30: a) The three -foot (31) high block wall
was along Shirley Drive should
continue all the way to the property
line, as previously proposed.
b) A sidewalk should be constructed
along the west side of the proposed
wall adjacent to Shirley Drive from
the property boundary to the
terminus at Washington Avenue.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 21, 1992
Page 6
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT 92 -5 CONTINUED
c) A six -foot (6') wide opening should
be provided to the sidewalk and the
trail at the northwest corner of the
property.
d) A waist -high peeler post or log
fence should be constructed from the
trail east to Lot 28 (now Lot 39)
and connecting the trail to Washing-
ton Avenue, subject to the approval
of the Community Development
Manager.
Approved 5 -0
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
City Planner Christen informed the Commission of the Joint Study
Session to be held on Laguna Heights, which is scheduled for
October 27, 1992, at 4:00 p.m., at Elsinore Valley Municipal Water
District Board Room, 31315 Chaney Street.
Commissioner Neff stated that he has a conflict with the date and
would get with Mr. Christen.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Neff
Informed the Commission that the Economic Development Corporation
is sponsoring a luncheon on October 23, 1992, from 11:30 to 1:30,
at the Temecula Creek Inn, and gave details.
Commissioner Bullard
Attended and enjoyed the League of California Cities Conference in
Los Angeles, October 10 -13th, the programs were very educational.
Commissioner Sellevold
Nothing to report.
Chairwoman Brinley
Nothing to report.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 8:35 p.m., motion by Commissioner Gilenson,
second by Commissioner Neff.
Approved 5 -0
Respectfully Submitted, Ap ov ,
L'nda Grindstaff Pam rinley,
Secretary' Chairwoman
MINUTES OF
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING CON
NOVEMBER 4, 1992
THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
SCHEDULED FOR NOVEMBER 4, 1992, WAS CALLED FOR LACK OF AGENDA
ITEMS.
Respectfully /su�Jmitted\
Linda Gristaff
Planning C ommission
Secretary
MINUTES OF
HELD ON THE
LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
18TH DAY OF NOVEMBER 1992
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Commissioner Neff.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Neff, Sellevold; Bullard
and Brinley
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: None
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, Associate
Planner De Gange, Assistant Planner Villa, and Engineering Manager
O'Donnell.
MINUTE ACTION
Moved by Commissioner Sellevold, Second by Commissioner Neff to
approve Minutes of October 21, 1992, as submitted, and to receive
and file Minutes of November 4, 1992.
Approved: 5 -0
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no request to speak, Chairwoman Brinley closed the
PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
404 $X A *,1'4k*f -_y
1. Tentative Financial Parcel Map 27291 Revised - Long Beach
Equities - Assistant Planner Villa presented a request to
divide approximately 500 acres into three parcels for
conveyance purposes only. The site is located on the north
side of the intersection of Interstate 15 and Lake Street.
This proposal has been reviewed pursuant to the California
Environmental Quality Act and determined to be exempt.
Chairwoman Brinley opened the public hearing at 7:10 p.m., and
asked for any written communication. The Secretary reported
no written communications. She then asked for anyone wishing
to speak in favor.
Mr. Jon Friedman, of Long Beach Equities, gave a brief history
on the proposal, detailing past and future endeavors. He then
questioned condition number 4 with regard to bonding for
monumentation and requested that this condition be postponed
to a future date.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for anyone else wishing to speak in
favor. Receiving no response, she asked for those opposed.
Receiving no response, she asked for anyone wishing to speak
on the matter. Receiving no response, the public hearing was
closed at 7:12 p.m.
Commissioner Bullard commented on the proposed mining activity
for Parcel 3 as stated by the applicant, and condition number
1 requiring City approval for any activity.
Mr. Friedman stated that a request for mining has been
submitted to the City by Halloran & Associates.
Commissioner Neff asked that Engineering Manager O'Donnell
address condition number 4.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 18, 1992
Page 2
TENTATIVE FINANCIAL PARCEL MAP 27291 REVISED CONTINUED
Mr. O'Donnell stated this was not a requirement on the
previous map. Although, it states in the City Ordinance that
a tract or parcel map has to be monumented. This is a
Financial Parcel Map and really not covered under the
Subdivision Map Act. A map doesn't necessarily have to be
monumented if there is existing monuments in the field. He
then suggested the condition be modified by adding language:
"Unless sufficient survey information exists on filed maps to
locate and retrace the exterior boundary lines of the parcel
map".
Discussion ensued on the suggested modification to condition
number 4.
Commissioner Neff commented on the costs of monumentation - -if
not covered by a development loan it has to come out of pocket
and in today's economy it is difficult to do that. Suggested
exercising some leniency to the developer and amend the
condition to the satisfaction of the applicant.
Commissioner Gilenson stated that he agrees with Commissioner
Neff and the applicant on amending condition number 4, or it
could even be deleted.
Chairwoman Brinley stated she would like to see condition
number 4 stand as amended.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER SELLEVOLD, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER NEFF
AND CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL
APPROVAL OF TENTATIVE FINANCIAL PARCEL MAP 27291 REVISED BASED
ON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL
LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT WITH THE FOLLOWING AMENDMENT:
Condition No. 4: Applicant shall provide appropriate bond
for monumentation. Unless sufficient
survey information exists on filed maps
to locate and retrace the exterior
boundary lines of the parcel map.
BUSINESS ITEMS
NONE
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Bullard
Nothing to report.
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 18, 1992
Page 3
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS CONTINUED
Commissioner Neff
Inquired about attendance for the Groundbreaking ceremony for the
Lake Elsinore Plaza on November 19th, stating that he would be
unable to attend.
Commissioner Sellevold
Announced that he will be moving out of state and this is his last
meeting, resigning appointment.
Chairwoman Brinley
Thanked Commissioner Sellevold for his service, support and doing
a good job. She then wished everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 7:25 p.m. , motion by Commissioner Gilenson,
second by Commissioner Bullard.
Approved 5 -0
roved
Pam B inley,
Chairwoman
Respe tfully Sub 'tted, _
nda Grindstaff
Secretary
MINUTES
HELD ON THE
OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
2ND DAY OF
III) ;Cal; "03:iT:l:36
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by Community Development Manager
Shear.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Neff, Bullard and Brinley
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: None
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, City Planner
Christen, Associate Planner De Gange and Engineering Manager
O'Donnell.
MINUTE ACTION
Moved by Commissioner Bullard, Second by Commissioner Neff and
carried by unanimous vote to approve Minutes of November 18, 1992,
as submitted.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no request to speak, Chairwoman Brinley closed the
PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. General Plan Amendment 92 -3 and Zone Code Amendment 92 -3 -
City of Lake Elsinore (Continued from October 21, 1992) -
Associate Planner De Gange requested that each item be
considered separately as there have been various modifications
made to the Historic Downtown Land Use Plan (GPA 92 -3),
however, the Zone Code Amendment is still in the process of
being revised.
General Plan Amendment 92 -3 - to implement the Historic
Downtown Land Use Plan establishing General Plan land use
level designations for this area. The area is generally
bounded to the north by Collier Avenue and Interstate 15, to
the south by Lakeshore Drive, the west by Chaney Street, and
the east by Grove Avenue, Conklin Avenue and Rupard Street.
Zone Code Amendment 92 -3 - request this item be continued
indefinitely.
Chairwoman Brinley opened the public hearing at 7:10 p.m., and
asked for any written communication. The Secretary reported
no written communications. She then asked for anyone wishing
to speak in favor.
Mr. Alex Bellehumeur, 6242 Napoli Court, Long Beach, owns the
old hotel site, 6.6 acres bordered by the Outlet Channel,
Limited, Lakeshore Drive and Spring. He gave a brief back-
ground on the property highlighting the acquisition, design of
a master plan and past discussions with members of the City.
He then commented on the proposed Specific Plan designation
for the general area and requested it be changed to Mixed Use,
because of the importance of the area.
City Planner Christen stated, as a point of clarification, the
Specific Plan designation is probably a broader category than
Mixed Use. The Mixed Use category is limited to specific
percentages of commercial or residential, and a Specific Plan
is not.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 2, 1992
Page 2
GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 92 -3 AND ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 92 -3 CONTINUED
Chairwoman Brinley asked for anyone else wishing to speak in
favor. Receiving no response, she asked for those opposed.
Receiving no response, she asked for anyone wishing to speak
on the matter. Receiving no response, the public hearing was
closed at 7:20 p.m.
Commissioner Bullard commented on the following:
• Requested the following changes: High Density areas,
designated as HD on the map, downgraded to Medium -High
Density and the Medium -High Density areas downgraded to
Medium Density.
My thoughts are, the High Density area would incorporate
too many residents and dwelling units for the area, and
would not enable future development as fast as a Medium -
High Density or downgrading one area. By doing this, we
would move the acreage to the Medium Density residential
to 215.5 acres and the Medium -High Density would then
become 48.4, leaving the High Density area as 0. We do
not need to create another area like our Joy Street area
in the future, 5 -10 years down the road.
• Outflow Channel, making sure there is no interference
with this plan. It is my understanding that the Outflow
Channel is not affected by this plan. Concern was,
creating a historical area and what the future would
bring in upgrading the Outflow Channel.
• Geothermal wells along Spring Street and future develop-
ment with the historical background. This is a plan for
future development and, at this time, would not affect
those.
Commissioner Neff stated he has no particular comments or
questions, but was intrigued by Commissioner Bullard's
suggestion on the change in density. He commented on the
density of the Joy Street area, 24 presently, maybe density is
not the problem but quality of construction. Another major
control that we might want to think about or implement is a
thorough review of plot plan /site plans coming before the
Commission. He then inquired whether this would have to go
back before the Design Review Committee, because of the nature
of the recommended changes.
Discussion ensued on whether this would need to be returned to
the Design Review Committee; the Design Review Committee being
a recommending body and final action would be required by City
Council.
Commissioner Gilenson stated that he had no comment.
Chairwoman Brinley stated that she had no problem with the
changes and called for a motion, asking for separate motions.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER BULLARD, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER NEFF AND
CARRIED BY A 3 -1 VOTE WITH COMMISSIONER GILENSON CASTING THE
DISSENTING VOTE, TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL TO DOWNGRADE THE
HIGH DENSITY AREAS TO MEDIUM -HIGH DENSITY AND DOWNGRADE THE
MEDIUM -HIGH DENSITY AREAS TO MEDIUM DENSITY, WHICH IN TURN
INCREASES THE MEDIUM - DENSITY RESIDENTIAL ACREAGE TO 215.5
ACRES AND DECREASES THE MEDIUM -HIGH DENSITY TO 48.4, AND 0 OUT
THE HIGH DENSITY, AND ADOPTION OF MITIGATED NEGATIVE
DECLARATION 92 -7.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 2, 1992
Page 3
GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 92 -3 AND ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 92 -3 CONTINUED
MOVED BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER NEFF TO
RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT
92 -3 BASED ON THE FINDINGS LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT AND
ADOPT RESOLUTION 92 -8.
Commissioner Gilenson asked for discussion. Are you
recommending the same change that was on the Negative
Declaration, changing the High and Medium Densities?
Chairwoman Brinley responded in the affirmative.
There being no further discussion, Chairwoman Brinley called
for the question.
Approved 3 -1 (Commissioner Gilenson voting no)
RESOLUTION NO. 92 -8
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA RECOMMENDING
TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF GENERAL PLAN
AMENDMENT 92 -3 TO IMPLEMENT THE HISTORIC
DOWNTOWN LAND USE PLAN ESTABLISHING GENERAL
PLAN LAND USE LEVEL DESIGNATIONS FOR THIS
AREA. THE HISTORIC DOWNTOWN ENCOMPASSES
APPROXIMATELY 486 ACRES AND IS LOCATED IN THE
HISTORIC CORE OF THE CITY. THE AREA IS
GENERALLY BOUNDED TO THE NORTH BY COLLIER
AVENUE AND INTERSTATE 15, TO THE SOUTH BY
LAKESHORE DRIVE, THE WEST BY CHANEY STREET,
AND THE EAST BY GROVE AVENUE, CONKLIN AVENUE
AND RUPARD STREET.
MOVED BY BULLARD, SECOND BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY AND CARRIED BY
UNANIMOUS VOTE TO CONTINUE ZONE CODE AMENDMENT 92 -3
INDEFINITELY.
2. Annexation 64, General Plan Amendment 92 -2, and Zone Change
92 -5 - William and Rosalyne Hall (Entec Consultants, Inc.),
Continued from October 21, 1992 - Associate Planner De Gange
presented a request for annexation and prezoning of 87 acres,
an amendment to the General Plan Land Use Map changing a total
of 33 acres from Business Park and 15 acres from Freeway
Business to General Commercial. The site is located at the
northwest intersection of Tenth Street and Dexter and to the
north and south of Cambern Avenue, east of Central Avenue
(State Highway 74).
Associate Planner De Gange stated the proposal was continued
because the annexation as originally proposed would create a
slender island between Dexter Avenue and Interstate 15. The
application was revised to include all of the area and the
associated environmental document was re -done, re- circulated
and re- reviewed. He gave a history on the correspondence with
Cal- Trans, highlighting their request for a traffic study and
for revision of the mitigation measure to include a condition
for a traffic study for the entire site prior to Design
Review. He then stated that staff will alter the Mitigation
Monitoring Program on Mitigated Negative Declaration 92 -6 to
represent the desires of Cal- Trans.
Chairwoman Brinley opened the public hearing at 7:35 p.m., and
stated she would like to have the correspondence from Cal -
Trans entered for the record.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 2, 1992
Page 4
ANNEXATION 64, GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 92-2, AND ZONE CHANGE 92 -5
"Department of Transportation
November 10, 1992
Mitigated Negative Declaration for Annexation 64, General Plan
Amendment No. 92 -2 and Zone Change 92 -5
We have reviewed the above referenced document and request
consideration of the following comments:
• The account of the conversation between the City and
Caltrans (Harvey Sawyer) as stated in the Discussion of
Environmental Impacts (page 22) is inaccurate. Caltrans
agreed to "a condition that requires the applicant to
prepare a traffic study for the entire site prior to
design review approval," as stated in the letter dated,
August 31, 1992 (see attachment).
• A traffic study for the entire site will be necessary as
each individual project could conceivably have only minor
to moderate traffic impacts; however, cumulatively, the
impacts could be significant. The preparation of
individual traffic studies, may not adequately provide
for the total impacts generated. Overall impacts are
best when considered in a single, detailed document which
addresses the worst -case situation. In any event, should
the City require individual traffic studies, each
proposal within the annexation area should be required to
consider the overall cumulative impacts of all
development within the area.
If you have any questions, please contact La Keda Johnson at
(714) 383 -5929 or FAX (714) 383 -5936.
Sincerely,
Harvey J. Sawyer, Chief
Transportation Planning
San Bernardino Coordination Branch"
Chairwoman Brinley then asked for any written communication.
The Secretary reported no written communications. She then
asked for anyone wishing to speak in favor.
Mr. Kim Quon, Entec Consultants, 1355 East Cooley Drive,
Colton, representing the applicant, stated they concur with
the Staff Report, and will answer any questions that arise.
Chairwoman Brinley asked for anyone else wishing to speak in
favor. Receiving no response, she asked for those opposed.
Receiving no response, she asked for anyone wishing to speak
on the matter. Receiving no response, the public hearing was
closed at 7:38 p.m.
Commissioner Neff asked whether there were any proposed
commercial uses that would vary from what exists now, the
nursery -- replacing the nursery with a use for the particular
amendment or prezone. Mr. Quon responded in the negative.
Commissioner Bullard stated that he was satisfied with the
Staff Report.
Commissioner Gilenson stated he had no comment.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 2, 1992
Page 5
ANNEXATION 64, GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 92 -2, AND ZONE CHANGE 92 -5
Chairwoman Brinley stated that she has no problem and agrees
with staff.. She then called for a motion, asking for separate
motions.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER NEFF, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BULLARD AND
CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF
COMMENCEMENT OF PROCEEDINGS FOR ANNEXATION 64 BASED ON THE FINDINGS
LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER NEFF, SECOND BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY AND
CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL ADOPTION OF
MITIGATED NEGATIVE DECLARATION 92 -6 AS OUTLINED IN THE STAFF
REPORT. -
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER NEFF, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BULLARD AND
CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF
GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 92 -2 AND ADOPTION OF RESOLUTION 92 -9, AND
ZONE CHANGE 92 -5 BASED ON THE FINDINGS LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
RESOLUTION NO. 92 -9
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA RECOMMENDING
TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF GENERAL PLAN
AMENDMENT 92 -2 FOR THE AMENDMENT OF THE LAND
USE ELEMENT OF THE 1990 GENERAL PLAN TO
REDESIGNATE 33 ACRES OF BUSINESS PARK AND 15
ACRES OF FREEWAY BUSINESS TO GENERAL
COMMERCIAL
BUSINESS ITEMS
NONE
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
Nothing to report.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Bullard
Commented on the following:
1. Attended a seminar and display on the Environmental Systems
Research Institute concerning the GIS System, during the
League of California Conference this year. I would like to
see the City continue with its GIS System and have somebody
who is well trained, as it will benefit the whole community.
2. The Sierra Circuit Finals Rodeo will be held again this year
in Lake Elsinore. Classic Western Production Inc. is on
schedule in promoting this for Elsinore.
Commissioner Neff
Inquired about the dates for the Rodeo.
Commissioner Bullard responded January 9 and 10, 1993, and there is
a kick -off Queen's pageant on the 8th.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 2, 1992
Page 6
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS CONTINUED
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Chairwoman Brinley
Nothing to report.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 7:45 p.m. , motion by Commissioner Gilenson,
second by Commissioner Neff.
Approved 4 -0
Respectfully S bmitted,
Linda Grindstaff
Secretary
MINUTES OF LAKE ELSINORE PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON THE 16TH DAY OF DECEMBER 1992
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 7:00 P.M.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE was led by City Planner Christen.
ROLL CALL:
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: Gilenson, Bullard and Brinley
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: Neff
Also present were Community Development Manager Shear, City Planner
Christen, Assistant Planner Villa, Engineering Manager O'Donnell.
FOR VICE CHAIRMAN
MOVED BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BULLARD AND
CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE TO CONTINUE NOMINATIONS FOR VICE CHAIRMAN
TO THE MEETING OF JANUARY 20, 1993.
MINUTE ACTION
Moved by Commissioner Bullard, Second by Chairwoman Brinley and
carried by unanimous vote to approve Minutes of December 2, 1992,
as submitted.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There being no request to speak, Chairwoman Brinley closed the
PUBLIC COMMENT Section.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
NONE
BUSINESS ITEMS
1. Single- Family Residence 16940 Wells - Samuel & Rita Bendlin -
Assistant Planner Villa presented a request for Minor Design
Review of a 1,159 square foot, single -story dwelling with a
440 square foot garage.
Chairwoman Brinley asked if there was anyone representing the
applicant and if there were any concerns.
Ms. Rita Bendlin stated they concur with the Staff Report.
Commissioner Gilenson requested that the standard condition
for dedication of underground water rights be added as
condition number 23.
Chairwoman Brinley commented on the architectural modifi-
cations made.
There being no further discussion, Chairwoman Brinley called
for a motion.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON, SECOND BY CHAIRWOMAN BRINLEY
AND CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE TO APPROVE SINGLE - FAMILY
RESIDENCE AT 16940 WELLS BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO
THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT WITH THE
FOLLOWING AMENDMENT:
Condition No. 23: Dedicate underground water rights to the
City (Municipal Code, Title 16, Chapter
16.52.030). Document can be obtained
from the Engineering Department.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 16, 1992
Page 2
2. Single - Family Residences - C.M.S. Company (William Boyd) -
Assistant Planner Villa explained why separate reports were
prepared and then detailed the following:
358 Avenue 2, 379 Avenue 3 - one - story, 1,856 square foot
single- family dwellings with a 454 square foot garage.
1121 Mill Street - one - story, 1,506 square foot single- family
dwelling with a 454 square foot garage.
IT WAS THE CONSENSUS OF THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER SINGLE - FAMILY
RESIDENCES AT 358 AVENUE 2, 379 AVENUE 3 AND 1121 MILL STREET
CONCURRENTLY, SAME APPLICANT.
Chairwoman Brinley asked if there was anyone representing the
applicant and if there were any concerns. Receiving no
response, she asked for discussion at the table.
Commissioner Gilenson commented on 358 Avenue 2, requesting
that three conditions be added. The verbiage would be the
same as condition number 19, 21 and 22 from 1121 Mill Street.
Commissioner Bullard stated that he agrees with Commissioner
Gilenson.
Chairwoman Brinley stated she had no problem and agrees with
the added conditions, and called for a motion.
MOVED BY COMMISSIONER GILENSON, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BULLARD
AND CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE TO APPROVE SINGLE - FAMILY
RESIDENCES AT 358 AVENUE 2, 379 AVENUE 3 AND 1121 MILL STREET
BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS OF
APPROVAL LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT, WITH THE ADDITION OF
CONDITIONS 25, 26 AND 27 TO 358 AVENUE 2:
Condition No. 25. Street improvement plans and
specifications shall be prepared by a
civil engineer. Improvements shall be
designed and constructed to Riverside
County Roads Department Standards, latest
edition, and City Codes (Lake Elsinore
Municipal Code 12.04 and 16.34)
Condition No. 26. All compaction reports, grade
certifications, monument certification
(with tie notes delineated on 8 1/2" X
11" mylar) shall be submitted to the
Engineering Department before final
inspection of 'off -site improvements will
be scheduled and approved.
Condition No. 27. Arrangements for relocation of utilities
company facility (power poles, vaults,
etc.) out of the roadway or alley shall
be the responsibility of the property
owner or his agent.
INFORMATIONAL
1. Planning Commission Meeting of January 6, 1993 is being called
due to the Holidays and lack of Agenda items.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 16, 1992
Page 3
PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMMENTS
Community Development Manager Shear wished everyone a Merry
Christmas and a Happy New Year.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner Bullard
Wished everyone a happy holiday.
Commented on the national finals in Las Vegas. We were well
represented, 26 members of the Classic Western Productions, for the
Rodeo and we have been invited back next year to put on a seminar
at the national finals.
Commissioner Gilenson
Nothing to report.
Chairwoman Brinley
Wished everyone a Merry Christmas.
Thanked staff for a good year - -all the help, consideration and all
the things that you do to make the City run smoother.
Commissioner Neff
Absent.
There being no further business, the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission adjourned at 7:15 p.m., motion by Commissioner Bullard,
second by Chairwoman Brinley.
Approved 3 -0
Pam Brinley,
Chairwoman
Respectfully Submitted,
Linda Grindstaff
Secretary