HomeMy WebLinkAboutLAKE ELSINORE CITY COUNCIL MEETING 04-14-2009 (LAKE STREET MARKETPLACE) I Lake Elsinore City Council Meeting
2 April 14, 2009
3 Lake Street Marketplace (Item 13)
4
5 Magee
6 Item No. 13, Mitigated Negative Declaration No. 2008-10, General Plan
7 Amendment 2008-01, Zone Change 2008-02, Commercial Design Review 2008-
8 09, for the project identified as Lake Street Marketplace. We will hear once again
9 from our Interim Community Development Director, Mr. Tom Weiner.
10 Weiner
11 Thank you once again Mayor, members of the City Council, the applicant and
12 CEQA consultant would like the item continued in order to properly address the
13 items outlined in the letter that was received at the Study Session today. The
14 applicant and CEQA consultant are available if you have any questions at this time.
15 Staff can also answer any questions and receive direction as given by the City
16 Council.
17 Magee
18 Thank you Mr. Weiner. As this is a noticed public hearing, I'm going to open the
19 public hearing at 7:40 p.m. We have a recommendation from our staff and the
20 applicant and the CEQA consultant to continue this item off calendar?
21 Weiner
22 We're looking at a May 12th date. I believe that's an appropriate Council meeting
23 date.
24 Magee
25 We do have, thank you sir, we do have several speakers that have requested to
26 speak this evening and so we are going to take that testimony. First I want to
27 remind everyone that this is a time and place to conduct public business. This is
28 not the time and place for personal attacks or personal agendas. The City Council
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I is here to receive and respond to information and testimony. We ask those of you
2 in the audience to conduct yourselves with decorum and respect for our public
3 process. Our first speaker this evening will be Mr. George McDonough.
4 McDonough
5 Good evening City Councilmembers, City Attorney, City Manager. My name is
6 George McDonough, I live at 16514 Mountain Street and I'm a member of the
7 Voters Against Lake Street Market. I would like to say for the last time we are not
8 against Fresh & Easy, we are against commercial development in a residential
9 area. I do not know the make up of tonight's audience, but Mrs. Jimenez will
10 present the City Council with several petition sheets with over 280 resident's
11 signatures opposed to the project. Our main opposition is to any kind of
12 construction on Lake Street before the required road improvements are made.
13 Castle & Cooke is required to make these improvements when they build and sell
14 264 more homes in Alberhill. When asked when they will reach that point, Vice
15 President Tom Tomlinson responded in two or three years but who knows with this
16 economy. The Planning Commission approved the project in January in spite of 4
17 of the 5 Commissioners making 15 statements about traffic hazards. The
18 Chairman of the Commission Alex Zanelli stated Lake Street is in desperate need
19 of improvement see a potential for crisscross of traffic kind of like a figure 8
20 demolition course with people trying to turn right in and people trying to turn right
21 out onto Mountain.3A crisscross kind of problem.VA traffic engineer responded yes
r
22 there is a possibility for that. Vice Chairman Jimmy Flores stated I can't,
23 understand why Lake Street has not been completed 'You have numerous
24 children walking in the area to school and also the safety of the residents of this
25 town come first. CommissionerMendoza stated Lake Street is already a mess and
26 now is not a good time for this. Also we're going to approve this, get it graded, a
27 building will be built and it's going to stay vacant.FFinaIly, we don't understand
28 why the builder's requesting a zone change now. The entire strip of (and on west
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I side of Lake Street from Mountain to the I-15 is scheduled to be.rezoned when the
2 General Plan is adopted in September. Thank you for your time.
3 Magee
4 Thank you Mr. McDonough. Our next speaker is Ms. Marcelli Jimenez.
5 Jimenez
6 Good evening Mr. Mayor, City Councilmembers, my name is Marcelli Jimenez and I
7 am a member of Voters Against the Lake Street Market. As you are all aware I
8 presented my comments earlier today at the 4:00 closed session. I need to
9 comment on Mr. Garrison's statement that recommending our petition signatures
10 300 of them, recommending to take them as a grain of salt. I must make clear
11 that these signatures are from residents of the City of Lake Elsinore. We have
12 worked diligently gathering signatures while canvassing the neighborhoods and
13 two grocery stores Albertsons and Stater Brothers, we decided to go to our local
14 stores, grocery stores because we feel that we have a high volume of people.
15 Regarding our opposition I need to refer back to the January 20th Planning
16 Commission meeting, and I'd like to reiterate and restate some quotes that were
17 said from the Commission specifically quote number 1 that I have here from
18 Commissioner Jimmy Flores and he states I can't understand why Lake Street has
19 not been completed. You have numerous children walking in the area to school.
20 It's a major highway to me. We understand Mr. Garrison has conducted a
21 pedestrian count Mountain and Lake Streets, we feel that this count will be
22 irrelevant due to the fact that specifically children, teens, will be attracted to the
23 center before and after school and I could see how the count will change then.
24 Quote number two again from Commissioner Jimmy Flores, the resident's safety of
25 this town come first. And we hold this quote as a banner in I believe this is how
26 everyone should feel about our town regarding safety. In year 2008 the Sheriff's
27 Department reported 75 traffic incidents including driving under the influence,
28 auto collisions, 58 speeding tickets and a fatality, a fatality, one too many. Quote
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I number 3 made my Commissioner Phil Mendoza Lake Street is already a mess.
2 Also, another quote from Commissioner Phil Mendoza, we're going to approve this
3 shopping center, get it graded, this building will be built and it's going to stay
4 vacant. And speaking of grading I also stated earlier today the concern of my
5 husband's health. He has a severe form of Valley Fever and I feel that this
6 proposed project will endanger him because we reside within mere feet adjacent
7 to the same site. It has been said that development can't stop because of an
8 individual's health. Our family feels one person's illness is one too many. My
9 husband's illness is severe, we almost lost him once and we do not look forward to
10 this event. Dr. Eric Frickman, Community Health Agency, he's a director of the
11 Community Health Agency of Riverside County and he's actually referred by
12 Supervisor Bob Buster. He confirms 9 fatalities attributed to Valley Fever from the
13 year 2005 and 2008. I want to thank you for your time.
14 Magee
15 Thank you Ms. Jimenez. Our next speaker Ms. Dawn Oaks.
16 Oaks
17 I'm Dawn Oaks and I live on Avocado Way in Lake Elsinore. I am still opposed to
18 the project at this time in our City's history and progress forward. The traffic
19 nightmare that we're already experiencing on Central is leaving Lake Street as a
20 major thoroughfare at this time and although the proposal is to start grading in
21 June that's also, we still have people going back and forth to work even if the
22 schools are out. I still have the concern over the potable water that will be used
23 on this site even though I've been assured it's a not a major issue. The DWP of
24 Los Angeles today was discussing the raising of the tier two rates and construction
25 right now is not responsible building. It needs to wait and I feel that using that
26 area as a safety walkway through the area leading past Running Deer which is
27 later to be developed according to the plans and building the shopping center
28 further down Lake Street where there is an existing signal is a better plan for the
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I City of Lake Elsinore and all of the residents making this a win/win for everybody.
2 Thank you.
3 Magee
4 Thank you Ms. Oaks. Our next speaker is Mr. Brian Oaks.
5 Oaks
6 Mr. Mayor, Councilmembers, I'm here to speak tonight on behalf of the voter's
7 against the Lake Elsinore project.
8 Magee
9 Mr. Oaks can I get you to be closer to the microphone so we can hear you?
10 Oaks
11 Yes sir, is that better?
12 Magee
13 That's beautiful.
14 Oaks
15 I am, I sent a letter to the Council and I appreciate the fact that you responded
16 Ms. Melendez and Mayor Magee. This is a very important detail to me the fact that
17 the General Plan was laid out, I utilized the General Plan when I purchased my
18 house. I feel that to change the General Plan for one specific homeowner and
19 contractor that may have purchased the property in order to have it be deemed
20 commercial and then to turn around and allow him to change the zoning in the
21 area after I purchased my home is, I don't feel that is a correct method of doing
22 business. I based a very expensive investment of my life savings into this
23 residence. I feel that in order to change the General Plan in the middle of stream
24 is not fair to the homeowners that may have done like I did and depended upon
25 the General Plan in order to make their purchases. I also feel that the traffic
26 problem is going to be a situation that's very dangerous for the people going in
27 and out of that street, as if it isn't already and the children that are going to be in
28 that area. Also the, the fact that the zoning will cover not only this area, if people
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1 will look at the General Plan preferred, it does not just change the zoning for this
2 one tenant, this will change the zoning all of the residences from Mountain Street
3 to Running Deer. I feel that sending out a flyer to the people 300 feet around this
4 one property, to have its zoning changed to commercial is a little bit deceitful
5 when the General Plan preferred which is not made public to all the other people in
6 the area is to have the entire strip be changed to Commercial. So we're not just
7 talking about one small little commercial building on this corner, we're talking
8 about changing the zoning of all that strip of land from Running Deer to Mountain
9 Street to Commercial and it does not say that it's going to be changed to a C1, it
10 says it's changed to Commercial General. That would include the types of
11 businesses that we do not want to have near our residences. So I'm really
12 employing you to treat this as if this was your residence that you had bought a
13 few years back depending upon the General Plan that the City Council, I know it's
14 not exactly the same membership at this time, but the General Plan that was laid
15 out for this area that we all depended upon to buy our residences that you had
16 treated as if it was your house back there, that is going to now be changed and
17 planned to sit behind a commercial shopping center. I just employ you to please
18 put this whole thing off, wait until the General Plan preferred is presented to all of
19 the people that it will be affected by, wait until that's voted on and approved, if it
20 is, I will definitely put my two cents worth in for that small strip of land to be left
21 residential because that's the way it was planned. I do like the fact, I do see on
22 the General Plan preferred that you have residential areas on down Lake that are
23 interspersed with a more densely residential areas, interspersed with some
24 commercial development, that's really what I kind of expected. I really like the
25 hometown atmosphere of Lake Elsinore. I love to keep it a nice hometown city the
26 way that it was when I got here. I know that that's probably not going to be the
27 way that it will develop in the future. Maybe in 15-20 years it will look like
28 Murrieta and Temecula and Orange County and that whole area. I really kind of
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I hope not but at least I'd like to see the General Plan that I bought my house under
2 to be left the same and to utilize, put the commercial developments down where
3 the commercial developments are planned on the General Plan. I really thank you
4 for your time. I really hope that you can think about this situation from my point
5 of view and thank you ladies and gentlemen.
6 Magee
7 Thank you Mr. Oaks. Next speaker Ms. Sally Smith.
8 Smith
9 Good evening. I'm just going to make a real quick note. These folks obviously
10 have more information than I have, but I just wanted to tell you all I moved to
11 this beautiful City of Lake Elsinore because it was a nice, quiet, small town and I
12 moved to a nice, beautiful, small residential area where there wasn't any shopping
13 or any lights or anything around and I'd like to keep it that way. If you could keep
14 all the businesses down in the Main Street area you know or down where the
15 shopping centers are where they should be. Also Lake Street is a dangerous
16 street. There's been several fatalities on that street as you know. I even had a
17 hard time when I go to turn right on Mountain, you know I almost get rear ended I
18 don't how many times because people just barrel over so I think it's a safety issue
19 and I think it's a, you know, .keep the neighborhood quiet and safe for the children
20 down the street at the school also. So I hope you all consider this when you make
21 your decision. Thank you.
22 Magee
23 Thank you Ms. Smith. Our next speaker is Mr. Tom Tomlinson.
24 Tomlinson
25 Thank you Mr. Mayor, City Council. Tom Tomlinson with Castle & Cooke. It's
26 interesting the speakers and people who have talked tonight and they have
27 brought up many issues which are very near and dear to Castle & Cooke as well
28 and we've talk to people in length about the improvements on Lake Street that
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I needs to be done. One thing that I would like to mention is in working with this
2 developer we have no direct connection between Castle & Cooke and Marinita
3 Development. I wish our commercial division were doing the project just from a
4 commercial standpoint. But I think they have been very diligent in trying to
5 resolve all the engineering technical data that from what I have seen from what I
6 have worked with their engineer in finding solutions to what the previous speaker
7 just mentioned a very dangerous right turn onto Mountain from south bound Lake
8 and I appreciate that. I think one thing this development would do, would solve
9 those problems as it's spelled out. I did, I want to, from Castle & Cooke's
10 standpoint, we appreciate the development going in, again like I say I wish it were
11 our development, but it's not. We think it's good for the residents. We think it's
12 good for our development at Aiberhill, could bring shopping more close, more
13 close to the subdivision without having to go all the way down to the four corners
14 area to shop. So we, Castle & Cooke supports it. I also want to speak on behalf
15 of the HOA. As a member of the HOA, we actually did a survey of all the residents
16 to really find out what they think. So we sent out a form and I'd like to hand to
17 the City copies of those responses, all the responses that we did get back so the
18 City can review them. In a nutshell, the responses were approximately, I think we
19 got 36 responses, excuse me, 31 responses, 25 were in favor, 5 were against the
20 development and 1 basically abstained. Wasn't sure why they sent the response
21 in but, they didn't have a position one way or the other. What I did find and you'll
22 be able to read this in the responses, there's about 12 of the positive responses all
23 give reasons why they were positive and usually it was because of the near, the
24 proximity of the shopping and that's one the negatives that they have with the
25 development in that area. So you know we support it, the HOA supports it, I don't
26 know if there's been a citywide or an area wide survey on in general. I
27 understand that there's quite a few signatures that were obtained down at four
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1 corners against the project. But I don't know if that would be representative of
2 truly the public opinion of the project going forward.
3 Magee
4 Anything else?
5 Tomlinson
6 No. That's fine.
7 Magee
8 Thank you very much Mr. Tomlinson. Our next speaker is Ms. Jennifer Venejas.
9 Venejas
10 Hi. I'm here to support the proposed marketplace at Lake and Mountain. I've
11 spoken and emailed all of you numerous times regarding my position. I can't
12 stress enough the importance of this market. It will provide jobs to an already
13 desperate economy and a city that desperately needs jobs. Many people travel
14 out of this town and County just to make a living. This town has almost tripled
15 since I've lived here and the needs and wants of its residents have changed in the
16 past years. Therefore the City needs to adapt and make appropriate
17 accommodations for its residents. This marketplace will offer convenience, easy
18 accessibility and a nice mixture of variety of other stores in this town that we don't
19 offer. There is no logical reason why the citizens of Lake Elsinore must travel 15
20 to 20 miles to go to a unique store such as the proposed Fresh & Easy. Not only
21 do they offer unique variety of groceries, they're reasonably priced. I've heard
22 some of my neighbors voice their concerns about traffic at this marketplace. If
23 you recall, I emailed you all video footage of that intersection. That video was to
24 give you an idea about the traffic flow in that particular area of different days and
25 times. I'm sure you noticed that traffic was not a big issue. Now I hate to
26 regurgitate the same information that you are all aware of but I'd like to reiterate
27 some strong points regarding the anchor store of this marketplace. Fresh & Easy
28 is the most ideal neighborhood store anyone could ever ask for. Eighteen
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I wheelers will not be coming through the neighborhood all hours of the night for
2 deliveries. According to Fresh and Easy they make one delivery a day not in a 18
3 wheeler semi-truck. Their trucks have even removed their back up alerts not to
4 disturb neighbors. They have decent store hours and will not be a place to buy a
5 six pack of beer in 1:00 in the morning. This store actually gives to its community
6 continuously. That's not very common of any store. In addition, I've been led to
7 believe that Starbucks may be a possible store for this location, might be, sorry,
8 I'm reading this, in addition I have been led to believe that a drive-thru Starbucks
9 may be possible for this location. I'm a real coffee lover and would absolutely
10 enjoy this amenity, especially the ice tea. Starbucks thrives in this town so much
11 so, Starbucks on Grape Street near Wal-Mart is open 24 hours. Starbucks is
12 another great outreach company, they often donate food to local shelters and
13 coffee to our soldiers serving over seas. I've never spoken out on any issue in this
14 town before. This is the first and it's only because I really see the need for it.
15 This is not just for me and my family. I've talked to over 50 people in my
16 neighborhood alone who are in favor of this too. Unfortunately and
17 understandably this public forum is not for everyone. So I'm here to relay their
18 support as well. Please be assured that this marketplace is highly desired in this
19 neighborhood. Thank you.
20 Magee
21 Thank you Ms. Venejas. Our next speaker Ms. Rene Cummings..
22 Cummings
23 Mayor, Council. As a major supporter of the Lake Street Marketplace, when I
24 started a passionate campaign about three or four weeks ago, one of the things
25 that plagued my mind was I wondered why anybody would be opposed to this
26 marketplace? For me and many others in the development that I live in in
27 Alberhill, and I have talked to many homeowners there, it seems to be a wonderful
28 development. It provides not only just you know modern conveniences, but it also
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1 provides stability, economic stability for Lake Elsinore, as well as promoting future
2 growth. And I know that the City Council is very passionate about that as well as
3 I. As I pondered that question why would anybody oppose it, I've been reminded
4 many times here as a newcomer that I'm that. I'm new to Lake Elsinore. I
5 haven't been here but two weeks. I'm not used to the way things are done or
6 should be done here in Lake Elsinore. So with that being said, I started to
7 wonder, maybe the question is, or maybe the opposition could be I really don't
8 know, but maybe it's change. Maybe it's the fear of change happening here. All I
9 could see is positive change. One of the reasons why I moved here. You already
10 know my feelings of support, but there's one thing that I do want to passionately
11 say and that is we need this development, we need further proper developments.
12 I'd like to share with you something from Lee Iacocca's book, it's called where
13 have all the leaders gone? This is what Lee Iacocca says. The seasons change,
14 Summer follows Spring, and night follows day. Life is full of ups and downs,
15 business cycles go round and round, events happen that rock your world. People
16 and family die, you get a divorce, you get fired, your business goes under. I've
17 been through all these changes and each time I've had to wake up and try
18 something different. Before you can deal with change however, you have to see
19 it, then you have to accept it. Sometimes that's the hardest part. Acknowledging
20 and then accepting that the way you've always done business or lived your life,
21 just won't work anymore. This is just a basic life lesson. It's true of individual's
22 families and companies and of course it's true of nations. There are plenty of
23 historical examples of nations that got knocked in the head because they resisted
24 change. In fact you can go back and track the success and failure of any nation in
25 the world by how open it was to change. I want to thank you as City Council for
26 making the positive changes that you are here in the City and I hope you continue
27 to do so. Thank you.
28 Magee
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r
I Thank you Ms. Cummings. Our next speaker Mr. David McCombs.
2 McCombs
3 Mayor Magee, City Council, my name is David McCombs with the Bergman
4 Companies and I represent Fresh & Easy. Our desire is to have a wonderful
5 neighborhood market here in the community to serve the Lake Elsinore people.
6 We're grateful to be considered to be here. We are grateful for the support that
7 we're receiving for Fresh & Easy markets. Fresh & Easy prides itself on being just
8 what it says being fresh frood, fresh food, at reasonable prices to the community.
9 We're grateful to be here in the community and we hope that all the issues can be
10 resolved and that we can find a nice home here and serve your community.
11 Magee
12 Thank you very much Mr. McCombs. Our next speaker Mr. David Garrison.
13 Garrison
14 Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of the Council and staff. My name is Dave
15 Garrison, I represent Marinita Development, the proponent of this project. As I
16 mentioned earlier in the, at the earlier portion of this meeting, this is quite a small
17 project in relation to some of the things that have been referred to. In other
18 words we can't compare this against the Home Depot or the Target or the Lowes.
19 The traffic has been the biggest issue that the no voters have tried to hang their
20 hat on. At this time I'd like to allow the traffic engineer to come up and speak
21 briefly about the numbers of traffic in true understandable terms in terms of the
22 quantity. So that everybody has a better understanding about this traffic that
23 everybody speaks of. Unfortunately we didn't realize that we couldn't get all of
24 the PowerPoint tonight, we thought we were going to have the same PowerPoint
25 that we had with the Planning Commission so we're going to have to improvise
26 here a bit. But if I could get on the screen the site plan that shows the new
27 configuration of the traffic, I can appreciate it that and then we can...
28 Magee
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I Mr. Weiner is that possible?
2 Garrison
3 While he's getting that set up I can relate to the pedestrian count that we did. At
4 our last neighborhood meeting that we had that I think a couple three of you
5 Councilmembers attended, one of the concerns was the hoards of children that run
6 up and down these streets from school. We didn't actually take a count at that
7 point so we went out and did a study much like we would do a traffic study. We
8 hired a company, they sat there for the peak hours of the school, before and after
9 school and even sat there around lunch time. They came up with the traffic, the
10 pedestrian counts. It's quite amazing to hear the argument against this project
11 and look at the realities of it. The pedestrian counts are 12 people, 12 kids at the
12 morning and afternoon hours, peak hours. It's not any more than 12 people. Now
13 conversely to that the crossing at the school at Lakeshore is 153 people. So when
14 school is starting or leaving, there's about 153 people that cross Lake at the
15 Lakeshore. Those people then disburse primarily to the, I guess would it be to the
16 east so at our intersection it's 12 kids in the morning, in the afternoon. So that to
17 me is not a major concern. Not that we're treating this lightly because that's 12
18 kids that are walking there. I don't think our project is going to be detrimental to
19 those 12 kids. With that I'd like to turn this over to Aric Evatt who's our traffic
20 engineer. He can be very specific about the numbers of cars and how that relates
21 to this project.
22 Magee
23 Why don't we do this sir. Why don't we take the rest of the speakers and then
24 we'll allow your traffic engineer...
25 Garrison
26 Oh sure...
27 Magee
28 To come up here if the Council wants to hear the traffic counts.
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I Magee
2 Our final speaker is Mr. Larry Powell.
3 Powell
4 Good evening Mayor, Councilmembers. My name is Larry Powell, Marinita
5 Development, I'm one of Dave's partners. I just would like to reiterate that in the
6 last three, three and half years that we've been working with staff, the site plan
7 that we've gone through, has gone through quite a few iterations, building design
8 changes, to deal with noise, traffic impacts, siting and various things relative to
9 traffic. Part of this is because our goal as a owner/developer we keep our projects
10 for a long period of time. We're not a merchant builder, to build and sell. We still
11 have about 85% of everything we've ever built and so for us to do it right the first
12 time is what we need, that's our goal. We don't build projects to have them sit
13 vacant, we don't make our money that way. We keep them for cash flow so from
14 that standpoint, the goal is to have proper tenant mix and operate them to be an
15 asset to the community and we've enjoyed our working relationship with the staff
16 and hopefully we'll be able to have a ribbon cutting celebration out there within a
17 year and a half or so. Thank you very much for your support.
18 Magee
19 Thank you very much Mr. Powell. Have no other request to speak. I feel
20 compelled to explain something to the audience. This afternoon at approximately
21 4:30 the City Council was presented a letter from a law firm of Johnson & Sedlack.
22 Is there anyone here from that law firm here tonight? I don't see anyone rising or
23 coming forward. The first line in this letter is this letter is submitted on behalf of a
24 group of local residents. Is there anyone here represented by this law firm? No
25 one raising their hand again. This is the information that our staff referenced at
26 the beginning of their presentation that was leading them to request for a
27 continuance. And what I heard was also that the applicant was requesting a
28 continuance as well although the applicant also indicated they're ready to present
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1 the findings of their traffic study. At this point, I'll bring it up to the dais and find
2 out what the pleasure of my colleagues are?
3 Melendez
4 I would like to hear the traffic count.
5 Magee
6 Mayor Pro-Tem.
7 Melendez
8 I would like Mr. Garrison to come back up with your traffic engineer and give us
9 the count, the explanation of the traffic please. I'm sorry, before you begin with
10 the count can you also put it layman's terms for those of us here and in the
11 audience but the intersection geometrics if you could so that we understand how
12 it's going to work there?
13 Evatt
14 Sure, Mayor, Council. The proposed changes, is that what you're speaking of?
15 Magee
16 Sir could we get your name for the record?
17 Aric Evatt
18 Absolutely, my name is Aric Evatt. I'm with the firm, Urban Crossroads and we
19 prepared the traffic impact study for the proposed development. I'll start by
20 walking through the proposed geometrics for the built out condition with the
21 project. This is not ultimate build out but an interim condition when the project is
22 constructed. On Lake Street as you can see here there would be as there is today
23 still a traffic signal, there would be a dedicated left turn pocket heading
24 southbound here one northbound as there is today. What the project would be
25 doing is widening Lake Street, there is an ingress/egress point here, which would
26 be right in, right out only so people heading south on Lake Street who wanted to
27 enter the shopping area could make a right hand turn here. There's going to be a
28 provided right hand turn pocket for safety reasons that allows cars coming
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I southbound to safely pull out of the through traffic slow down to make a safe turn.
2 Conversely to exit the project here, to make a right turn, it's hard to see in this
3 image, but there's kind of a hatched area, this area helps prohibit turns left in to
4 the project or left out but this also provides a little safety area or a weeding
5 section if you will to allow cars existing here to get out into the through traffic to
6 proceed south. There is also a dedicated right hand turn pocket here you can see
7 in the yellow shading where cars proceeding southbound wanting to make a right
8 onto Mountain could enter this turning area and make that right hand turn safely
9 without impeding through traffic. Along Mountain there are some additional
10 improvements that would also be made, the street would be widened, currently
11 here today, there is a left turn lane coming out of Mountain onto Lake to head
12 north and there is what we consider a thru right turn lane so traffic in this lane can
13 either go through the intersection to the other side of Mountain or make a right
14 hand turn to go south onto Lake. With the project improvement shaded in yellow
15 here, we would have roughly an 18 to 19 foot lane here that would carry across
16 the frontage of the property to their ingress/egress here off of Mountain. This
17 would be a full access intersection lined up with the existing Ginger Root Way.
18 This intersection is not proposed to be signalized, it would be what's considered a
19 cross street stops. You would have a stop sign on the north and south legs, the
20 minor street legs. Traffic on Mountain is unimpeded. There is a left hand turn
21 pocket that would be provided here for residents entering the neighborhood.
22 There would also be a corresponding left hand turn provided on Mountain for
23 residents coming from the other direction who are wanting to enter this site.
24 There is not a dedicated right hand turn lane on Mountain into this site but with
25 18-19 feet of width that's typically large enough for cars making a right hand turn
26 to slow down to make the right hand turn while still providing enough pavement
27 width for through traffic to go on through. You see this commonly at stop signs,
28 or at signals during peak Fours when you have maybe bike lanes or on street
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I parking and everybody's cued up waiting to go through the signal but there's
2 enough pavement where people making right turns pull to the right hand side and
3 can make those right hand turns. Similar idea here, you would have plenty of
4 room to make through movements while making a right hand turn. On the
5 northbound leg the geometrics would stay as they are today. As far as trip
6 generation, I think I'll give the numbers here in a moment but I think one of the
7 important concepts for a project like this it's not necessarily always spelled out in
8 great detail and your typical traffic impact analysis is the nature of the
9 development and the nature of this development is commercial retail and in the
10 traffic world what we have are productions and attractions. We have types of land
11 uses that what we consider as traffic engineers and traffic transportation planners,
12 produce trips. And by nature that's a residential type use. Residential produces
13 trips, people have to leave their home to go to school, they go to work, they go
14 shopping, but commercial retail, commercial office these types of uses are
15 sometimes considered in the traffic world an attraction because by nature if
16 nobody was coming to those uses they don't produce trips, people aren't there.
17 The only people that are coming there are either patrons of the center or
18 employees and the reason I bring this up is because although I will talk about the
19 trip generation in a moment I think it's important to realize that this center is
20 basically just redistributing traffic that exists elsewhere in lake Elsinore today.
21 People who are going to use this shopping center today, have to get up, drive to a
22 store, buy a loaf of bread, get milk, buy dinner for their family, they're going
23 somewhere and what a shopping center like this does, a neighborhood shopping
24 center that's nestled near a residential area, is it does two things that are
25 important. Number one, it reduces the length of the trip that's having to be made
26 today. People that live in this area may have to drive twice as far if not further to
27 get shopping done so a shopping center like this will reduce trips that may be
28 happening in other more congested areas. It provides a walkable solution for the
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I nearby residents. Somebody who lives within 1/4 mile 1/2 mile may decide to walk
2 to this center. I know that that's a goal of Fresh & Easy's. Their stores are
3 designed to promote biking and walking to the center as opposed to vehicular
4 traffic. An ancillary benefit to that obviously is reduce vehicle miles traveled,
5 reduce carbon emissions things that are hot button issues in California today. But
6 I think that's important to note that these are not necessarily all new cars, these
7 are cars that are existing somewhere on the roadways today. We looked at the
8 proposed project as far as trip generation. We look at it from a traffic study
9 perspective to identify a conservative worse case of how many trips might be
10 there in the ultimate peak hour and for the purposes of ensuring that onsite
11 circulation, the project driveway geometrics, everything is properly designed to
12 handle at peak period. The types of traffic that we would be demonstrating in a
13 traffic study may not occur everyday or during every peak hour but to give you an
14 example of a retail center at the PM peak hours typically the worse case because a
15 lot of stores aren't even open during the morning peak hours between 7:00 a.m.
16 and 9:00 a.m. so in the PM peak hour the project is proposed to generate a net
17 total trips of 369 vehicles. That's 183 trips in and 186 trips out. If you span 183
18 trips over say a minute, that's roughly three cars, excuse me over an hour, that's
19 roughly three cars every minute. So that's not a huge amount of traffic, three
20 cars every minute, in and out each way. What we looked at also were the
21 operations that are happening today at the intersection of Mountain and Lake and
22 currently today, based on existing counts, whoops I lost my page here, bear with
23 me one second, the intersection of Lake Street and Mountain under existing ,
24 conditions for 2008 operate at a level of service C in the morning with about a 25
25 second average delay and a level of service B in the evening with about a 19.8
26 second average delay. If I were to add the proposed project with some
27 background ambient growth which is roughly 3% per year of growth, the increase
28 delay is about 1.5 seconds in the morning and about 4 seconds in the evening.
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I Both level of service C both less than 24 seconds average delay at this signalized
2 intersection. So you can see with those types of numbers, this project isn't
3 unnecessarily burdening the local transportation network. Will there be some
4 increased traffic on Mountain Street between these signalized intersection and the
5 project driveway? Absolutely because people who are driving up and down Lake
6 Street today will need to access this center and they'll probably use the driveway
7 off of Mountain periodically to access it if they're coming from the south, or
8 potentially from the north, they're turning in directly off of Lake. But the
9 increased traffic is not substantial to exceed the City's level of service thresholds.
10 Magee
11 Thank you sir. Mr. Hickman.
12 Hickman
13 Just a quick question. And it's been bothering me for a long time. You gave me C
14 and D explain that again to me. The classifications you gave the street.
15 Evatt
16 Sure level of service is based on a letter grade A-F, A being exceptionally, you
17 know you're able to make free movements, there's hardly any cars around you,
18 level of service F would be very, very, congested, you know you can't make
19 movements it's peak hour traffic on the freeways a good example. Level of
20 Service D or better is based on the City's General Plan the level of service that we
21 strive to maintain at all of our City streets and intersections. Level of Service C is
22 a general county standard and an acceptable level of service anytime during a
23 peak period.
24 Hickman
25 So this is really not generating that much traffic and congestion?
26 Evatt
27 Based on the PM peak hour numbers as I've stated it's about 3 cars per minute
28 over an hour.
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I Hickman
2 Thank you sir.
3 Magee
4 Mr. Buckley.
5 Buckley
6 How is the traffic split between Mountain and Lake? What percent? Because I
7 would think let's see, unless you're driving in from the freeway, if you live in Lake
8 Elsinore, well I think everywhere else in Lake Elsinore, you'll have to come in
9 through Mountain. Well if you won't be able to make the turn, left hand turn, from
10 Lake, that means you have to either come in this way which would be Alberhill
11 right there and the rest of the City which is from Mountain. Why would, I mean I
12 can't imagine a lot of people are doing to drive up and then do that?
13 Evatt
14 Most of the access for people who are coming from other areas of the City they
15 would be accessing off of Lake Street. If they're coming from Alberhill, they would
16 be coming south on Lake Street, and make a right hand turn into the center to
17 proceed back north on Lake Street they'd have to exit the project here on
18 Mountain come out to the signal and turn up.
19 Buckley
20 If you're not coming from the freeway on Lake, which again remember most of the
21 people live over here, you're coming in, you are coming in Mountain?
22 Evatt
23 You'd come up north on Lake Street, make a left onto Mountain and hang a right
24 into the project.
25 Buckley
26 Correct, so what's the percentage, your numbers here 300 and something? What
27 do you believe that split to be?
28 Evatt
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I Based on the numbers that I have, I had about 115 cars making the right turn
2 from Mountain into the project and percentage wise that's about 55% my peak
3 hour traffic that would be making that northbound movement on Lake, hanging a
4 left on Mountain and then turning right into the project. But the 150, 115 excuse
5 me is about 75% of our total PM peak hour traffic.
6 Buckley
7 75% or 55%?
8 Evatt
9 75% would be entering the project from Mountain total. 55% would be making
10 that movement.
11 Buckley
12 You did mention encouraging bike use, I guess I would ask that you add more
13 than one 7 spot bike rack for the entire project, probably need to encourage it a
14 little bit more...
15 Magee
16 Any other questions from Council? We have a request to continue.
17 Hickman
18 I'll make the motion that we continue to May 12th. Is that their requested date?
19 Melendez
20 I will second that.
21 Magee
22 We have a motion and a second to continue the item until May 12th. Before we do
23 that I just want to recognize both the pro and the con side of this debate. We've
24 received a lot of information. Both sides have done an incredible amount of work
25 and you've both presented passionate and professional arguments. We've
26 received emails, petitions, DVDs, letters, videos and tonight we received a survey.
27 So I want you to know that none of that has gone unnoticed, it has been read and
28 digested by your Council and we do appreciate the professional work on both
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1 sides. With that, we have a motion and a second to continue this item. Any
2 further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor, indicate by saying aye. Aye.
3 Opposed? Item is continued.
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