HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-11-1993 Adjoourned City Council MinutesMINUTES
ADJOURNED REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
CITY QF LARE ELSINORE
3S31S CHANEY STREET
LARE ELSINORE~ CALIFORNIA
THURSDAY~ MARCH 11~ 1993
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Note - This meeting was originally scheduled for Tuesday, March 9,
1993, however pursuant to City Council Policy, the meeting
was continued to this date due to the lateness of the hour.
CALL TO ORDER
The Adjourned Reqular City Council Meeting was called to order by
Mayor Washburn at 5:03 p.m.
ROLL CALL
PRESENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: ALONGI, CHERVENY, DOMINGUEZ, WASHBURN,
WINKLER
ABSENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: NONE
Also present were: City Manager Molendyk, Assistant City
Manager Rogers, City Attorney Harper, Administrative Services
Director Boone, Community Development Manager shear, Community
Services Director Sapp, City Planner Christen, Public Services
Director Tecca, Special Projects Coordinator Wood, Manager of
Special Projects Watenpaugh, City Treasurer Pape and City Clerk
Kasad.
THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING WAS RECESSED TO THE REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
MEETING AT 5:04 P.M.
JOINT PUBLIC HEARING
1. C1tV Center T]avalnnmcnt _
- Resolution No. 93-4. (F:134.7)(X:134.10)
Councilwoman Cherveny called for a point of order concerning
the legality of this meeting as noticed. City Attorney Harper
explained the statutes related to this issue, and clarified
that the City Council meeting was adjourned to this specific
place and time with one item remaining, being this item. He
further clarified that the Redevelopment Agency meeting was
never called to order. He explained that the same rules are
applicable for the Redevelopment Agency as are for the City
Council.
Councilwoman Cherveny questioned the adoption of a similar
time limitation Resolution by the Redevelopment Agency. City
Attorney Harper clarified that the this particular Resolution
was adopted by the City Council; and when the Redevelopment
Agency was formed a resolution was adopted which stated that
the same rules apply to the Redevelopment Agency and the City
Council. He advised that in addition, the Redevelopment
Agency meeting was not called to order and in essence
adjourned for lack of a quorum to this date and time.
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PAGE TWO - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - MARCH il~ 1993
City Manager Molendyk introduced this item noting the location
of the proposed project. He clarified that this proposal
includes Walmart advancing $2.2 million, Oak Grove Equities
advancing $1.8 million, with repayment to occur over a period
of time. He further clarified that the repayment would occur
with the first $200,000 of sales tax coming to the City, the
second $200,000 to the debt service for the development and
the additional dollars being split between the City and the
development. He stressed the City's economic program to draw
jobs and revenue to the community; and suggested that this was
an avenue to help off-set the cuts made by the State.
The City Clerk reported 5 pieces of correspondence, 3 in
support and 2 in opposition.
Chairman Winkler opened the joint public hearing at 5:15 p.m.,
asking those person interested in this item to speak. The
following people spoke:
Charles March, representing Looking Good Beauty Supply,
commented that he was in favor of the Walmart project, but not
in favor of paying for them to develop here.
Kevin Pape, City Treasurer, commented on the cuts made by the
State in the last few years. He stressed that this project
could potentially generate $464,000 over the next year alone.
He noted a petition presented by local business people
indicating that the 22 businesses represented on that petition
generate only $26,OOO in sales taxes per year. He further
stressed the need to compete with the other local communities
for this type of development. He noted a situation with
Walmart in the Claremont/Upland area noting that based on the
stance of one city the other received the store. He suggested
that the impact of Walmart on other local businesses would be
similar to the impact when Builder's Emporium, Thrifty or K-
Mart were built. He also stressed the jobs this project would
generate, particularly for the young residents. He stressed
the need to look at what is best for the community as a whole.
:ti
Kay Koehn, 151 S. Torn Ranch Road, advised that she is a sales
associate at the Walmart in Redlands. She commented on the
benefits Walmart provides to the Community such as jobs for
people from teenagers to senior citizens; active participation
in the Community; contributions to local charities and
scholarships to local students. She noted that she had worked
for K-Mart prior to Walmart, and stressed the good quality of
jobs they provide. She further noted that she was not
speaking on behalf of the company, only herself.
Phil Williams inquired whether Mr. Winkler intended to abstain
on this item. Chairman Winkler advised that he had a written
opinion that there was no confliot on this item.
Phil Williams indicated that he was now representing 70
businesses including: Big A Auto Parts, Orange Credit
Service, Big 0 Tires, Busy Bodies, Looking Good Beauty Supply,
AJ's Bicycles, Pet Center, JNB Truckworks, Chevron Food Mart,
Sun City Optical, Elsinore Big Value.Variety & Crafts, Stadium
Sports, Interstar Management Inc.', Fashion Art, Shoe Palace,
PAGE THREE - CITY COUNCIL MINOTES - MARC$ 11~ 1993
141 North Main Street';'Antique Emporium, Main Street Furniture
Company, Hannon's Happy Hunting Grounds, Tiffany's Hallmark,
Stones Western Wear, Tropical Eleqance, Radio Shack, Carousel
Cards & Gifts, Jamar Performance, Pioneer Lumber, Mel's Radio
& TV, Sav-on Drug Store, Elsinore Pipe & Supply, Seers Lumber,
Kentucky Fried Chicken, K.C. Discount Carpets, Ortega
Stationers, Mission Optometric Eye Care Center, GEN-RX
Pharmacy, Gearhart's Service Station & Garage, Kuka Bear's,
TNT Costume & Thrift Shop, Sincere Sewing Machine & Vacuum,
Shear Madness, Elite Hair Design, State Farm Insurance,
Contemporary Escrow, Party Decor, Realty World, Lake Elsinore k:
Tool Company, sears Center, Town Center Glass & Screen, Class
Travel, New Trends Hair Studio, Lakeview Inn, Upmost Post &
Parcel Center, Doggie Styles, Angelica's Upholstering,
Nature's Sunshine, Lake Front Florist & Gift, Elsinore
Overhead Door Co., Angel's Home Maintenance, Pizza Bowl,
Little Caesars, International Tools, Lamb of God, Papi's
Mexican Food, Empire Door & Hardware, Town & Country Towing,
Elsinore Ready Mix, R.S. Instruments, R& B Investors, Century
21 Goldenwest, City Auto Wrecking, Mayhall Printinq, Larabee
Lumber, R& N Equipment Rental, Kartland INC, Mission Trail
Deli. He stressed that these are the people who put the
Council in office and act as sponsors to many local events and
organizations. He indicated that they are not opposed to
Walmart, however, they would want them to take the same risks
these businesses have and stand on their own.
Dale Dennis advised that she would trust the~ decisions of
Boardmembers Dominguez, Washburn and Winkler, but requested
that consideration be given to the result of similar
businesses such as Two Guys, Fedco, etc. She further
commented on the jobs provided and questioned the future for
those employed with Walmart and the potential for..reduced
hours, etc. She questioned what Walmart would really do for
the Community.
Leon Strigotte, 216 Chaney Street, addressed the previous
comments and noted business which have come to town under
similar protest. He stressed that the Downtown Business
Association has fought every one of them even though several
did not receive financial assistance, such as Albertsons,
Builders Emporium, etc. He indicated that gossip had gone
around town that businesses would fail, but all have been
prosperous businesses. He noted the Outlet Center and its
success. He stressed the free enterprise system and noted the
improvements to Main Street with no pay back by the Downtown
Business Association. He commented that he was puzzled by the
business community's concern with Walmart.
Ben Butterfield, general manager of Sav-on, spoke against
Walmart based on a number of disturbing issues. He stressed
the problems associated with Walmart in Ridgecrest and the
impact on that Citg. He advised that a Councilmember of that
community had commented that the City revenues were down 420
and 90 to 100 stores had closed. He indicated that while
Walmart hires many employees, most jobs are minimum wage and
minimum hours. He indicated he would have no problem with
Walmart when the population is large enough to support it. He
further indicated that his concern was with the tax dollars
involved and the expense of moving a mountain to build the
store.
PAGE FOIIR - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - MARCH 11~ 1993
Chris Hyland, 15191 Wavecrest, submitted a citizens petition
with just over 100 signatures against Walmart, against paying
sales tax for 20 years and opposed to Redevelopment Agency
money qoing to Walmart.
Lori Rubin, Looking Good Beauty Supply, indicated she had been
a small business owner in this Community for 5-1/2 years. She
questioned the difference between the negotiations here and in
Temecula. She questioned the payment of $4 million to bring
Walmart to Lake Elsinore. She stressed other needs in the
community such as a Denny's, theater, golf course, etc. She
indicated that there was no reason to pay the richest retailer
in the Country to come to the City. She further indicated
that the City needs upgrading to draw more industry. She
noted the impact of the Levi's Outlet on Miller's Outpost and
requested a no vote from the Council.
Beverly Stone, Gen RX Druqs, indicated that as a small
business owner she is opposed to Walmart. She explained that
her business was started with no assistance from the City and
opposed the tax incentives offered to Walmart. She noted
recent news stories about Walmart and products manufactured
outside the U.S. and child labor law violations. She
addressed possible conflicts of interest by the Council.
Rick Zwiefel commented that he is not against Walmart, only
the incentives being offered. He indicated he felt Walmart
could afford to come to the Community on their own. He
questioned the availability of similar incentives if a
different site were chosen. He suggested that two
Councilmembers businesses are in conflict with this
consideration. He addressed the comments of Mr. Strigotte
indicating that the businesses on Main Street did not ask for
the improvements. He indicated that Main Street was Mr.
Dominguez~s project. He suggested that the money contemplated
for this project be used for increased police services.
Edith Stafford, 54 Elm Street, commented on the walmart and
suggested that the proposed site is a bad location. She
expressed concern with the expenditure of $4 million to move
a mountain. She indicated she felt Walmart could find a flat
piece of land and suggested that the City should be run like
a business. She suggested that Walmart be required to pay
their own way. She indicated that while she was not opposed to
Walmart coming to the Community, she was not opposed to
driving to another community to shop there. She suggested
that the $4 million be used to provide improved police
protection, rather than giving it to the richest retailer in
:K American. She requested that the Council vote no on this item
noting other areas of need in the Community. She questioned
the gradinq being done on this site without a City permit.
Ace Vallejos, 15231 Cove Creek, outside the City because his
tract did not receive a higher wall, indicated that his wife
supports the Walmart project. He commented that Redevelopment
Agency funds seem to be used on projects other than
necessity. He stressed the need to keep the budget in the
black and suggested that this might not be the best location
for the project. He indicated that Redevelopment Agency funds
should be used to tear down slums:
PAGE FIVE - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - MARCH 11~ 1993
Mark Ostoich; Gresham; Varner, Savage; advised that he was
attending on behalf of Walmart and offered to answer
questions.
Frank Gatlin, Gatlin Development, expressed concern that the
speakers at this meeting did not understand the request. He
noted that the impression seems to be that the City is being
requested to write a check; he explained that there is no up
front money required and the mountain does not represent the
bulk of the costs. He indicated that no other suitable site
with infrastructure in place to do this development. He
indicated that a number of fees are included in the request.
He commented on the ability to go outside the City limits and
explained their willingness to let the City know the problems
and allow them to make the decision. He inquired if the City
wants the development to occur. He indicated that Walmart
does much good across the County and can go elsewhere if
necessary. He questioned what is the best alternative for the
entire community. He detailed tenants in other areas who are
doing well in spite of Walmart. He requested favorable
consideration and noted that the Temecula site included
several million dollars of infrastructure.
The joint public hearing was closed at 6:08 p.m.
MOVED BY WINKLER, SECONDED BY DOMINGUEZ TO APPROVE THE PROJECT AS
PRESENTED AND INSTRUCT STAFF TO FINALIZE THE NECESSARY DOCUMENTS
INCLUDING RESOLUTION NO. 93-4, THE DISPOSITION AND DEVELOPMENT
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY AND WALMART.STORES, INC.
AND THE OWNER PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT WITH OAK GROVE EQUITIES.
Councilwoman Cherveny addressed City Treasurer Pape and
concurred that this project would provide additional jobs, but
expressed concern with which jobs will be provided for the
investment. She indicated that part time jobs are needed, but
the higher level jobs will not be provided. She further
indicated that the City needs to bring good paying jobs in as
well. She noted a news article from the Community
Redevelopment Agency seminar and commented that the Walmarts
in Barstow and Upland received no incentives. She questioned
why Temecula can draw them for $500,000 or $900,OO0 and this
City is still at $4 million. She suggested that it might be
necessary to find another site with the infrastructure in
place. She expressed concern with similar discount stores
which have gone and this year's loss of property taxes. She
expressed further concern that the Redevelopment Agency is
already subsidizing the City by $2 million per year. She
indicated she has no problem with Walmart, but is concerned
with the expenditures and site. She noted that a large
portion of the fees are to the Water District. She addressed
the Outlet Center which has done well and questioned the need
for Walmart when the outlet Center is not quite paying for
itself yet. She indicated she is very concerned with the
sales tax revenue and the continuing payment to oak Grove
Equities. She noted her campaign literature and reminded the
community that she said she would work for the people,
increase police protection and help small business. She
questioned the ability of other Councilmembers to vote on this
item and hoped they would vote in good conscience.
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PAGE 3IX - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - MARCH 11~ 1993
Councilman Alongi commented that it is refreshing to see the
Community come together on an issue such as this. He
commented on the correspondence received from Stephanie Smith.
He questioned the tax and the percentage breakdown.
Administrative Services Director Boone presented an overhead
chart. Mr. Alongi indicated that this document did not match
those he received. He, questioned how much of the $464,000
figure is property tax. Mr. Boone indicated that
approximately $175;000 is property tax. Mr. Alongi
questioned a series of dollar amounts and stressed the
importance of working from the same documents. He questioned
whether these would really be new tax dollars or just shifted
from businesses that close. He indicated he would not have a
problem with Walmart if they could guarantee that they would
not build another store within 30 or 40 miles of this store.
He questioned the jobs it would provide and the impact on
small business, as well as guarantees that City residents
would be the first considered for the jobs. He questioned the
willingness of Walmart to supply Little League and other
organization sponsorships when the smaller businesses are
gone. He questioned the cost of moving the mountain. Mr.
Gatlin indicated it was approximately $1 million and stressed
that there was no other site appropriate for this development.
Councilman Alongi questioned the site and indicated he has a
letter indicating this would be the most undesirable site
because of the grading involved. He suggested that this
retailer was welcome to come to the community, but also
welcome to pay their fair share. He i.^.uicated he would be
willing to assist with tax increment. He commented on the
E.V.M.W.D. fees and questioned why they should not be the ones
financintj that portion. He addressed City Treasurer Pape
indicating he was elected to protect the people's interest and
dollars no matter how much it draws in. Iie stressed what it
will take away from the community. He suggested that the
Treasurer needs to think of job opportunities in relationship
to the housing available. He addressed the Temecula
negotiations noting that the off-sites were put in and will be
paid back interest free, indicating he would have no problem
with that type of investment if the funds are available.
Mayor Pro Tem Dominguez indicated that he had run for this
office as a progressive member of the community, and he feels
that his seven years on the Council have made a difference.
He noted the advise of professional staff inembers on what is
a good deal and what is not a good deal for the community. He
noted that the Outlet Center drew criticism and it worked out
,s fine. Ae indicated that his only concern with Walmart is that
they are coming in at the wronq time and it is being made a
political issue rather than a business deal. He commented
that he has experienced changes in the community and is
willing to continue to progress with anything that is good for
the community.
Mayor Washburn addressed an article he had read and inquired
whether Walmart in fact provides assistance to businesses to
fine tune their operations. Mr. Gatlin indicated they would
assist through the provision of seminars. He further
indicated that loyal customers will`'oontinue to frequent their
PAGE SEVEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - MARCH 11~ 1993
regular stores. He' indicated that most cities find 100~
positive response to Walmart when it is opened. He stressed
that Walmart would have similar impacts to those of K-Mart,
;l Target, etc. and this community has already felt that
, impact.
Mayor Washburn addressed a survey by the Chamber of Commerce
with 15 Chambers of Commerce with stores open more than a
year, indicating favorable with few impacts on existing
stores. He addressed comments regarding locating near the
Outlet Center and indicated that they have different trade ~:
areas, noting that the Outlet Center trade area is
approximately 100 miles. He further indicated that investment
has paid off. He expressed ooncern that with comments on
population noting that it is necessary to grow with the
population. He noted that while all of the jobs are not in
the higher brackets, they will be helpful as second income
jobs for families.
Councilman Winkler addressed agreements by other communities
for commercial development and the types of assistance
contemplated and the competition between communities for
businesses. He indicated that he wants to see this site
developed with a large retailer. He stressed that Lake
Elsinore is not only a city of 22,b00, but there are plans
approved with development agreements and the population will
increase to over 100,000 very soon. He indicated that there
are really only two appropriate freeway off-ramps for this
type of major retailer. He indicated that the State tax
system has caused this competition between communities for tax
dollars. He addressed the improvements to Railroad Canyon
Road and indicated that they were intended to draw commercial
development to this area. He noted that much of the-dirt to
be moved from this site will assist other projects in the
community and questioned the use for the inflow channel.
City Manager Molendyk stressed the amount of dirt available
for other projects. Public Services Director Tecca indicated
that 3 or 4 sites had been picked out in the floodplain areas
where there are permits and detailed the locations.
Councilwoman Cherveny inquired whether this would need a 404
permit. Mr. Tecca indicated that Eastlake has a 404 permit to
place it above 1465~.
Councilman Alongi inquired who owns the property. Mr. Tecca
indicated that it is owned by Mr. Lehr and the City holds an
option. Mr. Alongi questioned the ability for Eastlake to
have a 404 permit on property owned by Mr. Lehr.
Councilman Winkler indicated that the most important issue
for him is to make off-ramp locations key areas for high
profile commercial development. He indicated that it would
draw more traffic and commercial activities in the area. He
noted a previously submitted plan to use sales tax, and
indicated that this plan offers the use of tax increment
rather than giving up sales tax, which is his preference. He
noted that it was his understanding that this plan was
encouraged by Boardmembers Alongi and Cherveny in setting up
PAGE EIGHT - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - MARCH 11~ 1993
a reasonable plan; he noted a shift in position on this
formula during the process. He noted candidate profiles from
April, 1992; indicating that Councilman Alongi felt that
business should be made a priority and incentives should be
offered. Mr. Winkler noted correspondence he had received
from Chamber President Hundshamer regarding a survey done by
the chamber and detailed the findings. He noted that the
results were approximately 60% yes to 40~ no from the first
survey. A second survey was done including questions
regarding the impact on other businesses. He detailed those
findings. Mr. Winkler noted additional correspondence he has
personally received in support and opposition to this project.
He stressed the need to entice business to this major
intersection.
Councilwoman Cherveny indicated that question of this meeting
is not whether the community wants Walmart, anymore than the
question of whether they want a theater; rather a questioned
of how much they are willing to pay for a Walmart or a
theater. She stressed the current status of the economy. She
questioned the recent changes which would make Mr. Washburn
eligible to vote on this item.
Councilman Alongi addressed comments by Councilman Winkler
regarding the April, 1992, Sun-Tribune article and suggested
that the Sun-Tribune has a habit of editing people~s
comments. He questioned Councilman Winkler<s partnership in
this property that Walmart wants to build on. He stressed the
need for this to be a business decision as to whether the
community is large enough to support it and whether Walmart
will generate enough tax to compensate for businesses it may
destroy.
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Councilman Winkler called for the question. City Attorney
Harper requested that three votes be taken.
RESOLUTION N0. 93-4 WAS APPROVED BY A VOTE OF 4 TO 1 WITH CHERVENY
CASTING THE DISSENTING VOTE.
TI-IE DISPOSITION AND DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY AND WALMART STORES INC. WAS APPROVED BY A VOTE OF 4 TO 1
WITH ALONGI CASTING THE DISSENTING VOTE.
THE OWNER PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT WITH OAK GROVE EQUITIES WAS
APPROVED BY A VOTE OF 4 TO 1 WITH CHERVENY CASTING THE DISSENTING
VOTE.
City Attorney Harper noted that the CEQA findings had been
approved as part of the Resolution.
Councilwoman Cherveny indicated that she had voted yes to
allow her to bring the matter back for reconsideration.
ADJOURNMENT
THE MEETING WAS DECLARED ADJOURNED CHAIRMAN WINKLER AT '7:35 P,M.
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GARY M WASH URN, MP,yOR
ES : CITY LAKE ELSINORE
2 D, CIT CLERK
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE