HomeMy WebLinkAbout02-02-1993 Joint Meeting CC/RDA MeetingMINIITES
JOINT SPECIAL MEETING
CITY COIINCIL/REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
CITY OF LARE ELSINORE
130 S. MAIN STREET
LARE ELSINORE~ CALIFORNIA
TUESDAY~ FEHRUARY 2~ 1993
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CALL TO ORDER
The Joint Special Meeting was called to order by Mayor Pro Tem
Dominguez at 5:00 p.m.
ROLL CALL
PRESENT: COUNCILMEMBERS/BOARDMEMBERS: ALONGI, CHERVENY~ WINKLER~
DOMINGUEZ
ABSENT: COUNCILMEMBERS/BOARDMEMBERS: WASHBURN
Also present were: City Manager Molendyk, City Attorney Harper,
Administrative Services Director Boone, Community Development
Manager Shear, City Planner Christen, Community Services Director
Sapp, Public Services Director Tecca, Special Projects Coordinator
Wood, Director of Special Projects Watenpaugh, City Treasurer Pape
and City Clerk Kasad.
MAYOR PRO TEM DOMINGUEZ TURNED THE CHAIRMANSHIP OF THIS MEETING
OVER TO REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY CHAIRMAN WINKLER.
PUBLIC HEARING
1.
(F:134.7)
City Manager Molendyk explained this item and detailed the
location and request for funding. He further explained that
if sales tax is to be used the preference would be toward and
arrangement where the first $200,000 comes to the City, the
second $200,000 goes toward retiring the debt, and after that
equally split between the City and the applicant. He also
explained that the surplus dirt from this location will be
used at a number of locations throughout the City and the rock
will be used in the San Jacinto River Channel.
Special Projects Coordinator Wood presented a packet of
letters from the Chambers of Commerce of a number of other
cities that already have Walmart in their community, noting
that most comments are very favorable. He stated that he has
reviewed all of the deals in the surrounding areas and the
arrangement negotiated to date appears to be the best of all
of them.
The City Clerk reported no written comments or protests.
Chairman Winkler opened the public hearing at 5:08 p.m.,
asking those persons interested in this item to speak. The
following people spoke:
Phil Williams, P.O.Box 519, Lake Elsinore, advised that he was
representing some of the businesses in the Community and read
PAGE TWO - JOINT SPECIAL MEETING - FEBRIIARY 2~ 1993
the names from a petition he had circulated. He indicated
that while they were not against Walmart, they are against the
use of sales tax to repay the loans. He requested that if
this is agreed to, the same consideration be given to the
other businesses in the City. He addressed the packet of
letters presented by Mr. Wood, indicating that in his
understanding, the City of Redlands is somewhat disappointed
in their Walmart, as the revenue was far less than expected
and another Walmart was constructed in the vicinity. He
stressed the budget constraints the City is already facing,
and that the businesses only want to be treated equally. He
further stressed that existing businesses are struggling to
compete with the outlet Center and survive the construction
work on Mission Trail and its impact on the Christmas buying
season. He also stressed the existing number of vacant
commercial buildings in the City.
Ben Butterfield, Manager of Sav-on, advised that he has been
with this company for 42 years and in the City since 1981, but
stressed that he has not been involved in City politics
before. He expressed concern with the impact of Walmart on
the existinq businesses and emphasized the current commercial
vacancy rate. He detailed a situation in Ridgecrest where the
Sav-on closed after the opening of Walmart. Ae further
advised of a 20/20 news report that Walmart was using child
labor and falsifying records to cover themselves. He
commented that he doesn't feel the community is large enough
to support Walmart. ,
Tom Hundshamer, Chamber of Commerce President, advised that he
had done an informal phone survey of businesses which showed
60~ in support of Walmart, 35X in opposition to Walmart and 5~
with no opinion. He noted that comments were received such as
"o.k. as long as they pay their own way", ~~will hurt small
retailers'~, "good for business", "more jobs". He further
advised that he had also called chambers of commerce in other
cities including Hemet, Corona, Banning, Perris, indicating
that the comments in the communities where the stores are open
have been positive. He listed the businesses polled.
Dick Knapp, commented that the people polled by the Chamber of
Commerce were not representative of the types of businesses
that would be impacted. He suggested that had that group been
polled the opposition would be more like 90~.
Wayne Clement, expressed concern with the use of tax dollars
to compete with existing business. He indicated that all
small business people in the City will be impacted.
Dolores Mayhall, 138 N. Main Street, advised that she would
not be directly impacted by Walmart, but her customers will be
hurt. She further advised that many people do want Walmart,
but they feel Walmart should pay like all of the other
businesses.
Dolores, Bookkeeper for Seers Lumber, commented that she feels
Walmart would not be welcome in the City. She questioned the
benefits provided to Walmart employees. Mark Ostoich,
representing Walmart, advised that they provide a complete,
competitive benefit package. Dolores indicated that their
employees are paid well and she sees no need for a Walmart.
PAGE THREE - JOZNT SPECIAL MEETZNG - FEBRIIARY 2~ 1993
Mr. Gatlin, representing Walmart and Oak Grove Equities,
addressed comments from this meeting. Regarding the Redlands
store, he advised that most stores are at least five miles
apart, based on trade area figures; he also noted that the
sales taxes were not as high as expected because the entire
center did not open at once. Regarding the possibility of a
store in Temecula, he noted that the infrastructure is already
in and they have an agreement that a portion of the sales tax
has been earmarked to pay back for the infrastructure.
Regarding the comment that 60~ of the businesses will go out,
he indicated a few stores might go out, but they were most
likely marginal businesses before Walmart came to town. He
stressed that Walmart, K-Mart and Target all have similar
impacts in this regard. He stressed that the potential exists
that they would not locate in the City and the City would
loose all of the potential sales tax to Wildomar or another
area. He detailed the $4 million in requested assistance. He
stressed that Walmart found the location and approached to
City to make it work. He stressed that "going somewhere else"
is not the answer, as five miles down the road would not make
a difference. He also noted that Walmart will need to hit $20
million in sales to recoup their own investment in the project
and they will strive to do so.
Rick Zwiefel, l01 S. Main Street, commented that he has
watched the previous Redevelopment Agency Board function and
spend money on Main Street. He further commented that he has
seen them do nothing to maintain their investment. He
indicated that a number of businesses are moving out of the
Outlet Center. He questioned the ability of Mayor Washburn to
vote on this issue based on previous dealings with this
project.
Chris Hyland, expressed concern with bringing "discount
houses" into the community. She suggested that all of the
residents don't spend money in discount houses.
Edith Stafford, expressed concern with spending Redevelopment
Agency funds on Walmart, K-Mart, etc., noting that she feels
the Board continuously spends money for projects that do not
return anything to the fund. She further expressed concern
with the amount of money being spent on Consultants and
Studies. She suggested that it should be spent on more viable
projects with reasonable returns. She stated her objection to
the way the City does business.
Dick Knapp, questioned the mini mall at the intersection of
Railroad Canyon, and suggested an alternate location which
would be flatter for development. He questioned who is
benefitting from this project.
The public hearing was closed at 5:43 p.m.
Chairman winkler questioned the option of using tax increment.
, Administrative Services Director Boone detailed earlier budget
discussions this date and the possible cuts which may be taken
and noted that Walmart sales tax would allow the City to
recoup the money anticipated to be lost. He suggested an
alternative might be use of tax increment from Project Area
II.
PAGE FOIIR - JOINT SPECIAL MEETING - FEBRIIARY 2~ 1993
City Treasurer Pape requested clarification of the anticipated
income from Walmart. Special Projects Coordinator Wood
advised that the fiscal impact report shows tax increment and
sales tax of $l0 million in the first 10 years, based on
statistics at the time of the study. He noted that this
report appeared to be very conservative.
Chairman Winkler questioned tax increment further inquiring
whether more could be retained in the City after the State
adjustments. City Attorney Harper clarified that it is
expected that the State will not be able to take the funds
committed to bonded indebtedness. Ae indicated that if tax
increment is committed to this use it would appear to be less
touchable by the State.
City Attorney Harper inquired whether the tax increment method
could fund the debt service. Mr. Wood advised that the tax
increment would be in excess of $200,OOA per year.
Boardmember Cherveny questioned how much would be required per
year. Mr. Wood clarified in general terms. Mr. Harper
indicated that depending on the direction from the Board, it
might be appropriate to take the debt service out of tax
increment to free up sales tax. Mr. Wood further clarified
that the pay back will not start until the first store opens.
Boardmember Cherveny advised that she has spoken with the
applicant, as well as several businesses in the Community, and
stressed the need for a well rounded approach. She commented
that she thinks Walmart would be great for the community, but
agreed with the business owners that it is not a good idea to
use sales tax. She suggested that she would support tax
increment over cutting into the sales tax. She also suggested
that other sites might also work. She stressed that based on
what she has heard sales tax is the only thing the City has
left to operate. She questioned the tax increment option
further.
Chairman Winkler addressed the proposed location for Walmart
and stressed that this location and the intersection of I-
15/Hwy 74 are really the only key commercial areas left. He
stressed the improvements made through Pardee on Railroad
Canyon Road. He commented that he also does not like to use
sales tax either, but sometimes it is necessary. He noted
that Redevelopment Agency funds have been used previously to
help entice the Outlet Center, K-Mart and Rancon. He further
noted that Redevelopment Funds have been spent on Main Street
and will assist those businesses in the long run. He
sugqested that it is important to take aggressive action and
try not to turn down a retailer at a key location. He
concurred that it would be better to use tax increment so
sales tax is not lost, but allow for sales tax as a back-up.
He questioned the ability to develop a formula for this
approach. City Attorney Harper advised that it would be
necessary to redraft the agreement and return for further
consideration.
Mr. Gatlin, representing the applicant, requested a two week
continuance to allow for re-evaluation of the situation. He
also noted that they found this to be a key location, as it
will draw from Canyon Lake and Temecula.
PAGE FIVE - JOINT 8PECIAL MEETING - FEBRIIARY 2~ 1993
City Attorney Harper commented that most of the fees for which
assistance is being requested go to the Water District, not
the City.
Mr. Gatlin further commented that the sales tax option was
pursued because it is more self-regulating and encourages
efforts to gain higher sales.
Chairman Winkler inquired whether a continuance to February
9th would be adequate. Mr. Gatlin indicated he was not sure
this would be adequate.
Boardmember Cherveny requested that all future meetings on
this subject be regular rather than special.
City Manager Molendyk suggested that this item be continued
for three weeks to allow for agendizing.
Chairman winkler indicated that he would support the package
as is if the tax increment will not work.
City Attorney Harper asked that the public hearing be reopened
prior to continuance.
Boardmember pominguez advised that he has no problem with the
project, but noted as a small businessman, location is 75~ of
the business. He noted previous concerns with competition
between markets which really did not become issues. He
stressed that this location was chosen by Walmart after much
analysis. He commented that he doesn't feel this project will
put anyone out of business, only provide competition.
Boardmember Cherveny requested clarification of Mr.
Dominguez's position on the use of sales tax. Mr. Dominguez
indicated he would support the packaqe as presented.
Boardmember Alongi advised that if this item is continued, at
the next meeting he would like a new elevation showing where
the dirt will go and information as to whether the Corps of
Engineers has been consulted on the sites. Ae also inquired
whether the City would be charged for the rock from the site
and how much would be lost by small businesses, noting he
wants information from businesses which have related sPrvices
and products. He stressed that the improvements ~~o ~e
provided are strictly to service Walmart and do not serve t"t~e
entire community. He inquired whether the City's bonded
indebtedness is forgiven by the State. He noted t~at K-Mart
was a good investment and was paying off very well for the
Community. He expressed concern in competing witl~ ~~-Mart
after the Redevelopment Agency assisted them. He stressed the
need to assist smaller businesses. He sug4ested more
developments like Rancon which used a CFD witYi renayir.ent
through Redevelopment Agency funds. He indicated that the
outlet Mall is marginal because they have not done what they
anticipated. He further indicated that Main Street was done
to create an image for City Hall. He agreed that the location
was a good choice for Walmart and agreed with Boardmember
Cherveny that it is not fair to ask that the Redevelopment
Agency pay to prepare a site to build on for the developer.
PAGE SIB - JOINT SPECIAL MEETING - FEBRIIARY 2~ 1993
City Attorney Harper clarified the bonded indebtedness and the
potential cuts at the State level in the upcoming budget. He
also clarified that a CFD is an alternative, however he was
uncertain as to Walmart's position on this type of District.
Boardmember Cherveny questioned the potential of a CFD. Mr.
Wood indicated that this was a possibility for infrastructure,
but the applicant prefers to advance the money and be paid
back over a period of years.
Boardmember Cherveny requested that the final agreement
include a"continuous operation" clause to ensure that they
would remain in the building for the full term of the
agreement. Mr. Gatlin indicated this tends to be a self
regulating situation.
MOVED BY CHERVENY, SECONDED BY DOMINGUEZ AND CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS
VOTE OF THOSE PRESENT TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 6:20 P.M. AND
CONTINUE TH25 ITEM FOR THREE WEEKS TO FEBRUARY 23, 1993.
BIISINESS ITEM
Appointment of Plannina Commissioner.(F:60.2)
Councilman Winkler indicated that this appointment was to be
done by the Mayor with Council concurrence, and since the
Mayor was caught in traffic and unable to attend, it needed to
be postponed.
Councilwoman Cherveny indicated that she had reviewed the
applications received and suggested the Mr. Schiffner would be
a good Commissioner.
MOVED BY DOMINGUEZ, SECONDED BY CHERVENY AND CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS
VOTE OF THOSE PRESENT TO ADJOURN THE JOINT SPECIAL MEETING AT 6:25
P.M.
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FRED DOMI UNG EZ ~ MA O'Y R PRO TEM
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE
A~' EST:
V CKI KAS~L'IT?.' CLERK
CITY OF LAKF ELSINORE