HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-25-1994 City Council Workshop-The Lake
MINUTES
CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION
THE LAKE
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE
183 NORTH MAIN STREET
LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA
THURSDAY, AUGUST 25, 1994
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- CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Washburn called the study Session to order at 8:40 a.m.
ROLL CALL
PRESENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: ALONGI, BENDER, PAPE, WASHBURN
ABSENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: CHERVENY
Also present were: city Manager Molendyk, city Planner Leslie,
Communi ty Services Manager Best, Manager of Special proj ects
Watenpaugh, Public Services Director Tecca, and city Clerk Kasad.
DISCUSSION ITEM (F:92.1)
city Manager Molendyk introduced Dr. Barry and explained that he
was introduced to him through the LEMA meetings and through Black
and Veatch.
Manager of Special Projects Water.~augh ~tated that Dr. Barry was
introduced to Lake Elsinore through Black and Veatch when they were
considering using a pelican boat to harvest algae from the Lake.
He explained that Dr. Barry was consulted because he is an algae
specialist and he is known as the "dirty water" specialist.
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Dr. Barry gave an overview of his background and stated that lakes
have had the same problems since the 1880's.
city Manager Molendyk asked Dr. Barry to explain to Council the
type of contaminants that are in the Lake and how the city can
solve the problem in the next two years.
He suggested the use of a combination of several techniques to
address the problems the Lake is experiencing. He noted that there
is a high phosphate level, but some phosphate is necessary for the
balance and health of the Lake. Dr. Barry suggested the use of
aeration, done by city employees through a diffusion method which
will help to prevent fish kill, as well as the use of macrophites
(a large plant native to this area and the Lake). Dr. Barry
emphasized that he doas not work for any company nor does he
recommend any company.
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Dr. Barry explained other ways to treat water and how dangerous
they are to humans and fish alike. He noted that through aeration,
the use of vegetation and the harvesting of the vegetation; and
keeping the lake level stable through the addition of water, the
Lake can be brought Lack to heal th. He explained that the
suspended solids are blocki.ng the light and retarding the growth of
green algae which is necessary to the fish and the Lake itself. He
noted that evaporation is a real problem and should be addressed as
soon as possible.
llayor Washburn questioned Dr. Barry regarding alum treatment and
stated that while he understands that Dr. Barry is opposed to this
type of treatment, the alum treatment would settle out the
suspended particles; and asked what other methods are available.
Dr. Barry stated that the reason that he is opposed to alum
treatment is because it does not work. He stated that it is still
a heavy metal and can cause more damage than good. Dr. Barry
PAGE TWO - LAKE STUDY SESSION - AUGUST 25, 1994
stated that heavy metal does not harm animals, plants and humans as
long as it is in elemental state, but when it is in solution form
it can do severe damage. Dr. Barry stated that the bottom of the
Lake is sludge which contains acid and will convert the treatment
into solution that can be picked up by plants, animals or humans
and do damage. He explained that these methods do not work and in
a season or two the problem will be back.
Nancy Shafer, Elsinore Valley Municipal Water District, asked Dr.
Barry to be more specific in regard to the form of aeration that he
would recommend for this Lake.
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Dr. Barry explained that a similar aeration technique as proposed
by Black and Veatch, but done by City employees. He stated that
pollutants that are generated from up-stream must be stopped and
should the City have to use litigation, as other cities have in the
past to effect change, then so be it. Dr. Barry reiterated that
this is not a new problem, but it must be addressed.
City Manager Molendyk asked just what type of aeration system would
be best for this Lake.
Dr. Barry stated that atmosphere air should be pumped to the areas
that need the aeration such as areas that are 10' deep or deeper
and area that are experiencing fish kills. He stated that it is
necessary to use plants.
City Manager Molendyk asked if this would be done by using, for
example, 6 gas engine with hoses going into different parts of the
Lake to pump air. Dr. Barry stated that it would be accomplished
in just such a manner.
Mayor Washburn inquired whether the ci ty would need portable
systems and not a permanent system. Dr. Barry stated that portable __
is better because it can be moved from place to place as needed.
City Manager Molendyk suggested that during the hot summer months
the air would have to be pumped into the Lake, but not as much in
the winter. Dr. Barry stated that in the winter the water is cold
and has gas holding abilities, but in the summer it would be
necessary.
Manager of Special Proj ects Watenpaugh stated that the Water
District had recently taken some thermal tests and the surface is
reading 88 degrees.
Mrs. Shafer stated that they had also found thermalcline conditions
20 feet and lower, and because of this condition the water in the
bottom of the Lake lacks oxygen. She stated her concern regarding
a possible conversion.
Dr. Sutton stated that there was the same condition last year and
in the fall there was a turn over and explained the conversion
process.
Dr. Barry stated that if the water is aerated, then it will be
independent of the situation. He explained that the Lake will turn
over and not be as effected.
.....
City Manager Molendyk asked what it would cost to establish an
areation system in six different locations during the months that
the Lake needs it.
Mr. Otway, Elsinore Valley Municipal Water District, inquired
whether this would include 6 boats with generators pumping air into
the Lake. Dr. Barry stated that it could be done from a barge or
a boat.
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PAGB THRBB - LAKB STUDY SBSSION - AUGUST 25, 1994
city Manager Molendyk asked if the aeration could be done from the
shoreline or does it need to be done from a boat. Dr. Barry stated
that it can be done by both methods. He stated that Engineers
would be of great assistance in this matter.
Mayor Washburn asked if there were two barges, approximately 200
yards apart with hoses in the water, would they need to be run for
24 hours to be effective and get results. Dr. Barry stated that
they would not. He further explained the type of hoses that would
need to be used and explained that it could be done in
approximately eight hour periods daily during the times needed.
Dr. sutton stated that he agreed with Dr. Barry in regard to his
objections to using Copper sulfite or Alum in the water and agreed
that aeration is one of the answers. He stated that he is not sure
how aeration will react with phosphates that are tied up in the
sediments and he wondered if that action would have a negati ve
effect on blue green algae.
Dr. Barry stated that in his report on page 17, it explains what
aeration will do and how it will affect the phosphates. He
explained that if the Lake is aerated it will reduce the total
dissolved solids, then introduce infrared deeper into the Lake,
decrease temperatures, increase plant growth, acquire green algae
and get rid of the suspended particles which in the end will clear
the water. He stated that he would get back to Mr. Watenpaugh with
a list of the different lakes that use the aeration systems to
control algae.
City Manager Molendyk stated that the aeration system is a short
term solution and asked Dr. Barry what the second step would be to
effect a long term solution.
Dr. Barry stated that the next step is to keep the phosphorous from
being put into the Lake and the City may have to sue the persons
who are responsible. He explained that the people in the county
are contributing to the problem each time they flush their toilet
or drain their sink. He noted that there are septic tanks that are
in the Lake as well and must be removed. Dr. Barry stated that
this is the first step in the long term solution to the Lake
balance.
Mayor Washburn requested confirmation that aeration as well as
plant life will be of great assistance to the health of the Lake.
Dr. Barry concurred.
Councilman Pape asked about dredging. Dr. Barry stated that he
felt that dredging would be a mistake because it increases the
phosphates in the water. Dr. Barry stated that a question had been
posed that "wouldn't aeration stir up the phosphates". He
explained that the employees doing the aeration would have to be
careful not to go down to the mud. He explained that the bottom
should not be disturbed and left alone.
Mayor Pro Tem Bender questioned the use of macrophites on the other
side of the levee to clean the reclaimed water and then pump the
clean water back into the Lake. He stated that this could be used
as a filtering system. Dr. Barry agreed that this would be a great
idea. He stated that the City should approach the different state
and Federal agencies to fund a system using macrophi tes. He
explained that there should be macrophites in the Lake as well and
this program would have some very positive spin-offs.
Public Services Director Tecca explained that there is a lot of
vegetation between Canyon Lake and Lake Elsinore in the San Jacinto
River Channel, and the theory is that all the vegetation is
PAGB FOUR - LAKB STUDY SBSSION - AUGUST 25, 1994
supposed to take out the majority of the phosphates. He stated
that the Water Quality Board is doing a study right now to
determine how efficient that this theory will be in practice. Mr.
Tecca stated that there will be a report on the findings of this
study at the end of the month.
Councilman Alongi stated that he feels that what man destroys, man
can fix most of the time; and what concerns him more are the
causes. He stated that he cannot see treating water that is being
contaminated everyday and he asked about the removal of
contaminated fish.
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Dr. Barry stated that as he mentioned before, people must go on
sewers and not utilize septic systems and the method of stopping
that is to sue them. He explained that he advocates harvesting of
fish, but not total removal. He stated that once the City has
addressed the local problems, then it is time to go after the
persons who are contributing from up-stream drainage. He stated
that it is important to be sure that the persons up stream do not
release waste in the water ways. He explained that any outflow of
anything going into the water that is not natural must be abated.
Councilman Alongi asked if there were any state or Federal laws to
prevent keeping horses within 300 feet of the Lake or growth of
lawns up to the Lake edge. Dr. Barry stated that he cannot answer
about the horses, but he can about run-off and sewage. He
explained that there are Public Health laws that might address this
and the County should be advised of this issue. He gave some
examples of what has been done in the past to stop the run-off of
waste.
Mrs. Shafer noted the section of the report regarding the control
of phosphates in the watershed. She explained that there is a
meeting regarding Mystic Lake and asked if we should be involved in _
these meetings. Dr. Barry stated that the City should. He
explained that the Lake belongs to everyone and that it is one of
the reasons why people move to Lake Elsinore and that is why the
City needs a clean lake and should be involved in anything that has
an impact on the Lake.
Mrs. Shafer asked how Dr. Barry would deal with the issue of
increased population and increased use of the Lake itself. Dr.
Barry explained that the public needs to be educated and Council
needs to get tough with restrictions.
Councilman Alongi asked about micro-organisms. Dr. Barry stated
that he does not approve of micro-organisms since they increase the
phosphorous count. He stated that phosphorous loading is the
problem of this Lake and he feels it is wrong to contaminate the
Lake with microbes since it raises the phosphate level as an end
result.
Scott Wisdom, Sun Tribune asked about importing fish into the Lake
that eat blue green algae. Dr. Barry stated that exotic fish
should never be introduced into the Lake. Mr. Wisdom then
questioned the introduction of plants into the Lake and asked if
there could accidently be the introduction of plants from the boats
using the Lake. Dr. Barry stated that it is a possibility. Mr.
Wisdom asked if there were any steps to prevent that type of
introduction. Dr. Barry stated that there is no way to control
that. He explained that he could spend hours sharing the types of
problems that occurred from introducing a species and then the
problems that the introduction caused.
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PAGE FIVE - LAKE STUDY SESSION - AUGUST 25, 1994
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Mr. otway, Elsinore Valley Municipal Water District, asked about
the algae count and stated that it is down from what it has been.
Manager of special Projects Watenpaugh stated that it is better
than last year. Mr. otway asked Dr. Barry if he could explain
that. Dr. Barry stated that it is not blooming on the surface, but
it is thick in the water. Manager of Special projects Watenpaugh
stated that the Lake is much better than it was in May and better
than its been in a year and a half, but there has not been a recent
bloom.
Mayor Washburn stated that he grew up with the Lake and there has
never been a defined bottom in the Lake. He explained that there
has been so much sediment graduation that the bottom is difficult
to define. He asked if the Lake will ever be clear. Dr. Barry
explained that there are organic solids which are suspended in the
water, but there is a quantity of sludge on the bottom of the Lake
and he stated that he feels that this should not be disturbed. He
explained the ecosystem of the Lake with the addition of oxygen.
Councilman Alongi asked if the movement of water from the addition
of water from the basin behind the levee to the Lake could have
created a situation where the algae did not bloom. Dr. Barry
stated that he does not feel that it created any change.
Mayor Washburn asked if Dr. Barry would be more in favor of
aeration done from a barge which can be moved around or from the
shoreline and left for a period of time; and then moved to a
different location. Dr. Barry stated that he favored the use of a
barge to allow aeration to be done where it is most needed.
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Dr. Sutton asked how the areation favored the growth of green algae
over blue green algae. Dr. Barry stated that blue green algae does
not do well in strong light and green algae does. He explained
that blue green algae is a dirty water organism and does not do
well in clean water. Dr. Barry explained that the aeration will
break down the suspended particles and allow sunlight to go deeper
and make it a hostile environment for blue green algae.
Manager of Special Projects Watenpaugh asked how the sunlight will
penetrate the film that will develop on the surface of the Lake.
Dr. Barry explained that through aeration the green film will not
occur on the Lake surface. He noted that by interruption of the
cycle there will be less and less blue-green algae to form. He
explained the food chain of the Lake and how aeration will assist
the digestion of the flora and fauna.
Mayor Pro Tem Bender stated that one of the effects of alum
treatment is to seal the bottom of the Lake. He asked if there was
any other product that would do the same type of thing and make it
possible to seal the Lake bottom and prevent the phosphates from
entering the water from the bottom. He asked if there was a
possibility that a new bottom could be created which would provide
a proper environmental balance.
Dr. Barry explained that Calcium Magnesium which is natural can
seal the bottom, but he does not recommend this treatment for the
Lake, but prefers the natural growth of plants and use of aeration.
Councilman Pape asked Dr. Barry if the next step that he will take
is to figure out how many pumps will be needed and where they will
be placed.
Manager of special Projects Watenpaugh explained that Dr. Barry was
asked to come and evaluate the Lake and report to the city if the
Lake is fixable. He stated that it is Dr. Barry's opinion that the
PAGE SIX - LAKE STUDY SESSION - AUGUST 25, 1994
Lake can be fixed. He explained that this will be done on a trial
and error type basis to find the proper solution regarding plants
and where to place the hoses for aeration and how deep they should
be placed.
Dr. Barry explained that aeration is only a temporary fix and more
will have to be done to address the entire problem.
City Manager Molendyk explained that this meeting is to discuss
short term and long term solutions for the health of the Lake. __
There was general discussion regarding using macrophites in the
back basin and the responsibility of the watershed.
Dr. sutton explained the cause for the odor from the Lake as well
as the cause of the fish kill. He asked Dr. Barry why there are
not the problems with algae blooms this year that occurred last
year. Dr. Barry explained that the algae is the barometer of the
health of the Lake and this Lake is sick. He stated that the
temperature of the Lake has had a great deal to do with the bloom
of the algae.
There was general discussion in regard to the weather and its
effect on the algae blooms.
City Manager Molendyk explained that the City is fighting a
situation where the City would like to move quicker, but is faced
with a timely process that cannot be hurried and acquisition of
enough money to do the job properly. He asked if the City
developed a plan of action, would funding be available through the
Bureau of Reclamation or Outdoor Bureau of Recreation. Dr. Barry
explained that the whole program could take as much as six or eight
years and will involve a lot of money. He stated that there are
several interested parties and there are grants available. He __
explained that after the City has an honest proposal then the grant
application can be walked through. Dr. Barry explained that the
help of the local Congressman can speed the process since they know
where the money is and also know the right people to contact.
City Manager Molendyk explained that there are certain funding
cycles and this should be taken into account when the Ci ty is
seeking money for the Lake.
Mayor Washburn stated that public opinion sometimes states "The
City studies the issue to death, now do something about it". He
asked Dr. Barry based upon the information from Black and Veatch,
Dr. Sutton, and staff; if the City has done a good jOb in the study
of the problems and knows enough to callout the next steps.
Dr. Barry explained that the City has done enough analysis and does
not need to do more. He stated that the City needs current data on
the condition of the Lake to write the grant and that is all.
There was discussion regarding the use of volunteers to help aerate
the Lake.
Mayor Washburn stated that sometimes drastic measures must be
taken, and the City could suggest to the County that a moratorium
be placed on future development unless that development will go on
sewer, to prevent further impact to the Lake.
~
There was general discussion regarding the data necessary to
provide information for grants and how ef.lective the method of
aeration is. .
PAGE SEVEN - LAKE STUDY SESSION - AUGUST 25, 1994
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Councilman Alongi stated that he does not want to see private
citizens outfitting their boats to aerate the Lake. He explained
that this should be done according to the study and controlled to
be able to properly test the effectiveness of the methods used. He
asked Dr. Barry to confirm the fact that there should be no
chemicals or additives used in the Lake, and only natural flora and
fauna should be introduced. Dr. Barry concurred.
Manager of Special Projects Watenpaugh stated that there is great
care and consideration being taken in adding reclaimed water to the
Lake. He explained that the Water District and city are currently
working on the phosphate problems with reclaimed water before the
water will be allowed to enter the Lake.
Mr. otway asked about a Watershed Wide Education program and how it
would fit into the solution of the problems with the Lake. Dr.
Barry stated that it would be excellent tool, because it will bring
cooperation without giving issue.
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Mayor Washburn stated that the Chamber of Commerce has a committee
called "Save our Lake" which can assist in the education of the
public in regard to waste and how to aid in a clean water program.
Mr. otway explained a program that EVMWD is working on to allow
teachers to utilize a speaker who would address water, where it
comes from and what different actions cause and how it can affect
the watershed. He stated that this would be done through the
University of Riverside and a person would be assigned to go to
classrooms and work with the students. Mr. otway explained that
this program would cost $120,000.
City Manager Molendyk stated that he felt that this was a good
idea, since this is a community problem and impacts the entire
community.
Manager of Special Projects Watenpaugh explained that the timing
cycle for grants just ended for Water Resource Wetlands Habitat,
but there was a potential of funding from that source and can be
considered for the future.
ADJOURNMENT
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10:40 A.M.
THE CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION WA