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HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-13-1994 City Council Study SessionMINUTES CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE 130 SOUTH MAIN STREET LAKE ELSINORE~ CALIFORNIA THURSDAY, JANUARY 13, 1994 ************************,t,t*********************************~***** CALL TO ORDER Mayor Washburn called the Study Session to order at 3:03 p.m. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Mayor Washburn. ROLI, CALL PRESENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: ALONGI~ CHERVENY, DOMINGUEZ, WINKLER~ WASHBURN ABSENTo COUNCILMEMBERS: NONE Also present were: City Manaqer Molendyk, City Attorney Harper, City Treasurer Pape, Finance Manager Huffman, Community Services Director Sapp, Special Projects Manager Watenpaugh and City Clerk Kasad. DISCIISSYON YTEMS Mayor Washburn commented that this is one of the many Study Session regarding the Lake, and is the second in a series of three. He explained that this Study Session is in regard to Capacity Study, Annual Pass Regulations, Annual Pass Program, private Property Boat I,aunch Program and Special Provisions Applicable to Waterfront Lots. He stated tha~ this is for information only. 1, Capacitv Studv. (F:92.1) City Manager Molendyk advised that he had received a fax from Sutherland and Gerber, legal representatives of the Lake Elsinore Recrea~ion Area; in which they question the City°s intent to discuss launching of boats based upon their agreement with the State and their legal findings. Mr. Molendyk referred the fax to City Attorney Harper for review. Special Projects Manager Watenpaugh explained that this Study Session is to provide information and for Council to review one element of the Master Plan which is required by the State. &ie then introduced Ron Noble. Ron Noble e~lained the capacity study and the number of boats which would be able to utilize the Lake. He stated that with boat turn-over there would be a potential capacity of 1,560 boats on a maximum capacity day. Mr. Noble presented a comparison be~ween several local lakes and explained the anticipated uses usecl to come up with the potential numbers for Lake Elsinore. Councilman Alongi asJced if at 1245' elevation the water encroaches on private property and whether the City could count that area as recreational area. Mr. Noble indicated that if that area had to be declucted, it would change the total. PAGE TWO - CITY COUNCIL ~TIIDX SESSION - JANUARY 13e 1993 Mayor Washburn asked if the 92~ ~arina slips was a maximum numbere Nir. Noble explained tha~ in ~he Master Plan there were four marinas considered and this would involve the actual slip count, but it could exceed thato Councilwoman Cherveny asked if there was a maximum boat size on Lake Arrowhead. Mr. Noble explained that Lake Arrowhead has a maximum boat size of 26 feet as do several of the other lakes, however, there is no maximum power size since there is a limit on the speed. Mayox Washburn asked about the PWC~s. Mr. Noble explained tha~ this ca~egory ancludes jet skis, waver runners and that gype of craft. He stated that several of these types of water craft carry more fhan one person. Councalwoman Cherveny questioned ~he lake surface of Lake Castaico Mr. Noble stated tha~ the figures presented are accurate. Mayos Washburn asked if other lakes shut down for specific use such as for ~he sole use by sailboa~s. He asked if there were specific hours of operation on other lakes. Mro Noble stated that it varies between each lake. He explained that in some lakes tfiere are specified areas for differen~ wa~er sports. Manager of Special Projects Waten~augh explained ~hat on some lakes ~hey do shut down for a specified amount of time and allow only sailboats on the lake and os fishing only. Councilman Dominguez questioned the rules and regulations. Mr, Noble explained that there are specified areas for different activities and expYained their functions. Councilman Dominguez stated ~ha~ in the past there were rules which allowed fishing only during certain hours and requlated the noise factors and hours which boats could operate. Manager of Special Projects Watenpaugh explained that in the ~ext Study Session these types of issues will be considered and discussed. Councilwoman Cherveny asked what type of patrolling and safety standards will be available with 1200 boats on the lake. Mro Noble e~lained that there would only be 474 boats on the Lake going from 5 miles an hour to over 40 mph and ~hese would be the boats that would be patrolled and fall under the rules and regulationse The xest of the boats would be on shore or in slips engaged in other activities. Mr. Noble explained that on peak days ~here should be gour pa~rol boa~s on the Lake. Councilwoman Cherveny asked how many patrols are currently used. Mr. Noble advised that there are currentTy two. Ci~y Manager Molendyk explained ~hat the ultimate capacity number will not be reached for quite some time. This figure ~as intended for future capacity, and not the amount of boats that currently use the Lake. Councilman Alongi asked what Ndr. Noble felt was a safe number mg boa~s on the Lake. Mr. Noble stated that a safe number, ~ased on the Lake being built out, would be 1,200. He PAGE THREE - CITY COIINCIL STIIDY SESSION - JANQARY 13~ 1993 explained that this number is based on the proper patrol, proper rules and regulations, and the overall master plan buildout. Councilwoman Cherveny asked what the capacity should be riqht now, with two patrol boats. Mr. Noble indicated that he did know, but would research this. Councilman Alongi stated that he is still concerned with the 1245' elevation of the water encroaching on private property and that it could change the numbers. City Attorney Harper explained that it would not impact the number, since it is a figure to allow for how many boats can be on the Lake. This addresses the surface of the water only. Councilman Winkler commented that the private property area would be in the less than 5 mile per hour area and would have no impact on the numbers. City Manager Molendyk stated that he felt that in taking over the Lake that one of the things that the City was going to do was resolve the legal issues related to the Lake. Mr. Noble explained that his study is allowing for space along the edge and can be discussed in the next study session. City Attorney Harper addressed the fax received from the legal representatives of the Lake Elsinore Recreational Area. He e~lained that this was a letter which addressed the right to allow the launching of boats from private property and may constitutes private concession and breaches the agreement with the State. City Attorney Harper stated that allowinq launching from private property is not granting a concession for profit and therefore in his opinion the City is not granting a concession. The launching of boats in different locations will have no effect on the day use passes. Councilman Dominguez stated that Crane~s and Stokes had boat launching and the State required that the passes be purchased from the State Park. City Attorney Harper concurred. City Attorney Harper explained the Attorney General's letter and ~he legal issues regarding access to the Lake. 2. Annual Pass Regulations. Special Projects Manager Watenpaugh explained that in the I+Iaster Plan Draft, several types of passes will be addressed. He stated that if 600 annual passes are sold then there are still 600 daily passes available and with turn over it can be even more. Councilwoman Cherveny asked about an annual launch pass. Special Projects Manager Watenpaugh explained that at this time the public launch ramp is not in use due to the water level, however, Should the water level rise this winter, then an annual launch pass will be considered. Councilwoman Cherveny asked if there would be any consideration given to City residents versus other residents on the Lake. Mayor Washburn asked if Councilwoman Cherveny would propose that the City do this. She stated that she felt PAGE FOIIR - CITY COYJNCIL STIIDY SESSION - JAN[TARY i3s Y993 the City should give consideration to City residents since they are picking up the tab for the Lake. Councilman Alongi expressed his concern regarding regulation of docks in the County. Councilman Dominguez e~lained that when the State had the Lake, where ever the water went the State had jurisdictiong and this should be no different for the City. City Attorney Harper stated that if the County Building Department let the County residences build something that was not acceptable to the City, then the City could deny Lake Use/Launch Passes to make the residence conforme Manaqer of Special Projects Watenpaugh stated that the County and the City would cooperate in regard to these issues in order to avoid such problems. The intent is to develop ideas from Council and then ~ake the recguirements to the County. City Manager Molendyk asked for clarification in regard to a fee which would be less for City residents versus that charged for non-residents. Councilman winkler stated that City residents are not paying anything different than non-residents for baseball tickets. He stated that he felt that in an enterprise account where the %ake needs to support itself, the cost should not be different for resident versus non-residento Mayor Washburn asked if Mr. Noble has seen any lakes that make a difference from residents to non-residents. Mr. Noble stated that he knew of none. All the lakes he knows of have one fee schedule for everyone, except seniors who receive a discount. Councilman Dominguez stated that the purchase of tickets Monday through Friday is not going to work. There needs to be a sale of ~ickets on weekends. Special Projects kIanagex° Watenpaugh statecl that they had caught that error and that provisions to sell tickets seven day a week will be made. City Treasurer Pape aslceci if the City wishecl to make this projec~. self-supporting, and suggested if the City has an estimate og the number of boats to expect, ~hen it is possible to work backward to readjust the fees. Manager of Special Projects Watenpaugfi explained that it could be done, but boat launching and use fees alone will not address total operation of the Lake. Ae explained tha~ boat rental, concessions and other types of enterprise Paill have to be utilized. City Treasurer Pape asked if there will be a report in regard to the dollar amounts that ~.his will contribute to the Lake. Special Projects Manager FTatenpaugh explained that at the next meeting there would be the projected figures and percentages. City Manager Molendyk explained that Council should keep in mind that the City is trying to run this project as an enterprise accoun~, and the Sta~e did not. He further explained that this is an annual pass whether purchase in January or August. Councilman Alongi commented on charging different fees for City residents and non-residents. He asked if when the pass is acquiredo the identification of the pass and the PAGE FI9E - CITY COIINCIL ~TIIDY SESS%ON - JANIIAR% 13, 1993 registration of the boat must match, or the person is in violation. Manager of Special Projects Watenpaugh explained that the property owner must verify that they own the property, and as show proof that they own the boat. Councilwoman Cherveny stated ~hat possibly the CF numbers could be included on the tag. Manager of Special Projects Watenpaugh asked if the Lakefront property owners wish to use the Lake, but do not want to have a dock, should the City charge a fee for lake use as well as a fee for launching. Councilwoman Cherveny stated that she felt that launching and having a dock are two different issues and should be treated differently. Councilman Alongi stated that he felt that a person who has his property on the Lake has the privilege of launching on site and does not have to go around town to find a launching site and this should be addressed separately. City Attorney Harper stated that in other lakes there are docks allowed, and the fee for the dock is separate from the ability to use the Lake. He explained that there are different costs associated, due to dock inspection and the other issues. Councilman Alongi commented that the fees can be separated and charged on an individual basis. Councilwoman Cherveny stated that the annual pass should be $150.00 and the dock is a separate issue. Councilman Alongi stated that in his opinion $150.00 is too low of a fee for private property owners to have the privilege to launch from their own property. Councilwoman Cherveny explained that if the property owner wished to build a dock out in the water, then that is another whole set of building fees and needs to be addressed separately. City Treasurer Pape suggested that when fhe water quality is improved, then the fees should be reconsidered for an increasee Councilwoman Cherveny noted that the information provided states that the pass will allow them to, or give them the ability to dock their boats in the Lake. 2. Annual Pass Program. riIanager of Special Projects Watenpaugh indicated that he felt that currently, there are not enough private property owners ~o create a problem if they all wanted to buy an annual pass to launch from their propertyo Councilman Alongi stated that it was his understandinq that PAGE SY$ - CITY COIINCIL STUDY SESSYON - JANUARY 13a 1993 this was a plan for ~he futuree Manager of Special Projects Watenpaugh explained that 12o private passes would probably exceed the anticipated number. Councilman Alongi noted that if 1,200 is ~he capacity, and questioned if 565 boats are on the Lake and approximately 600 day passes are sold, doesn't the 120 off set the number on ~he lake. Mr. Watenpaugh explained ~hat ~he total number is 560 and the fio~al amoun~ of passes sold can be 3,000 because ~here won°t be ~hat many boats on the Lalce all day longo Councilman Alongi questioned the cut-off fox people on the Lake and the cut off for issui~ng passes. Mr. Aloble explained that at Y,alce P,rrowhead where they have numerous residences around the Lake, and in 1993, there were 2,457 registered boats that could use the Lake, and ~heir maximum day use limita~ion, except on the 4th of July, is 450 to 500 boats, Councilman Dominguez commented that Mr. Dawson gets up and launches his boa~ at 6:00 a.m. and is off the Lake by 9:30 a.m. and again at 6:00 p.m. launches again. Iie has observed that on the local people use the lake during the week and leave the weekends to the people from out of town. Councilman Alongi stated that La7ce Perris closes their gates several times a year due to overpopulation of boats and questioned when Lake Elsinore should close down because of too many boats. City I~Yanager Molendyk explained that indications are that the local people will launch during the off hours to avoid the boat traffic and the patrol would keep a count of the population of boats on the Lake to know when to close launching and day use passes. Yt is easier to control at La7ce Perris, since there in only one gate into the facility. Manager of Special Projects Watenpaugh explained the sectiomm under Vessel Control and questioneci the 10~ wfiich is the old number ezsed by the Sta~e. Councilman Alongi stated thate figure could be changed, after we see riow the boat use goes; if there is not a great impact the nwnber can always be raised. Councilman Alongi as}ced how many private property owners there are around the lake. He asked ig the 120 passes cover all of them. Councilwoman Cherveny asked Mr. Dawson how many members they have in their property owners association. Mr. Dawson stated thee are approximately 500 parcels and approximately 10~ owra boats. Councilman Alongi stated lakefront property owners Watenpaugh explained that on the Lake would be able that there are 145 parcels parcels on the City side. what he was questioning how many can place docks in the Lake. Mre only property owners witka property to have dockso %wIr. Dawson stated on ~rie lalcefront County side and 7 Special Projects Y~Ianager F7atenpatagh explained that tfiere are 2 homeowners associations and they have a right to lake usage as well. PAGE SEVEN - CITY COIINCIL STODY SESSION - JANUARY 13~ 1993 City Attorney Harper stated that it is a legal issue which involves a group of people who have lake rights, versus someone who has a lot on the lake. He explained that it will not make that much difference, since they will have to pay for their pass and launch feee Councilman Alongi explained that it is the control issue that concerns him. City Manager Molendyk explained that as an enterprise account if the City sells 10,000 passes, the Pirst 1,200 that use it fill that number, and then the lake is closed. City Attorney Harper explained that multiple ownership can be handled differently in as much as only so many boat passes can be sold. He further explained that in the 10 years that he had worked for Big Bear, they had never had more than 50~ of the boats on the lake at one time. Manager of Special Projects Watenpaugh explained that to start this program, we can le~ the local residents know that we will start out with a 10~ limitation. Mr. Dawson reaffirmed that of ~he 500 property owners, only l0~ have boats. Councilman Alongi stated that in 5 years 80~ of the property owners could have boats and that is what concerns him. City Manaqer Molendyk explained tha~ at state parks when you buy an annual pass, if ~he parking lot fills up, then the lot is closed and it doesn't matter if you have a pass or not. He e~cplained that it would be the same on the Lake, when it reaches capacity, then it is closed no matter how many passes are sold. Councilwoman Cherveny questioned the section stating: "Lake Fron~ Use Passes will not be valid on the following holidays; Memorial weekend, Labor Day Weekend and July 4th." She explained that she did not think that this was fair to the people who pay their passes. City Manager stated that section could be deleted from the Agreement. Manager of Special Projects Watenpaugfi asked about item #4 regarding a lot~ery. I~ was discussed by Council, and agreed that this should be on a first come, first serve basis. Councilman Alongi stated that to avoid trouble this should be done in person and not by mail. Manager of Special Projects Watenpaugh explained that he will be adding the word private launching facilities in o'Private Eacilities" iB, Councilman Alongi stated that Page 31 Section C-iC be coordinated with the County to avoid future problems. He asked if there was some way that the City can standardize the docks to make it conform. Councilman Dominguez sugqested that the City offer three different plans of docks ~hat people can choose from. Councilwoman Cherveny concurred. Manager of Special Projects Watenpaugh inc;icated that in PAGE ETGHT - CITY COIINCI~ STODY SESS%ON - Jp,glQAgy ~3~ g993 developing a program ~he water Tevel should nof go below 1240' and i~ they cannot place their docks beyond the 1240~ level they can still launch from their property. Councilman Alongi asked how the City can ascertain the property line. Mr. Dawson stated that most of the private property is down to 1233° or 1236o so ~his would not be an assueo ~ propexty owner on the lakefront stated that he is paying taxes on his property and his title grants him riparian rights. City Attorney explained the States legal posftion and access to the Lake. He explained that if the State had wanted to place a chain link fence around the lake and keep everyone fro~ it, they could have. He questioned the amount that the City is proposing to charge for lake use and launching since they are forced to pay higher taxes. NIAYOR WASHBURN LEFT THE MEETYNG AT 4s30 P.Me Councilman Alongi asked what is meant in the Agreement by ~he historic high and low eYevation of the Lakee Mr. Watenpaugh explained that this addresses the time when the Lake encroaches upon the private property and when it recedes. A resident asked wfiat the basis of the percentage weightingo Mr. Noble stated that it is based on item #1 to address the percentage and the type of boats. The resident stated that if he does not have access to the 3ake that this issue will end in litigation. He explained ~hat he feels ~hat fhe lakefront property owners should have ffree access to the lake and not be restrictede Ano~her resfdent approached Council and asked that Mr. Watenpaugh contact him to set a meeting for the property owners that he represents. Councilman Dominguez acknowledged his regues~. A representative of Southshore Praperty owners stated that she caas opposed to a limit of the property owners and she felt that the docks should not be tied into launchiango Couracilman Alongi stated tha~ only the deeded owner can be issued a lalcefront permit, not the people that belong to the association. NYanager of Special Projecf.s Watenpaugka stated tha~ he will eaork with the property owners and work at resolving concerns. ADJOORNMENT The meeting was adjourneci at 5: A~'TES~'s ~~~( i~ VIL:r..I d'va.SAD, CITY r"LERK