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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-10-1995 City Council Minutes MINUTES REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE 183 NORTH MAIN STREET LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA TUESDAY, OCTOBER 10, 1995 ***************************************************************** CALL TO ORDER The Regular city council Meeting was called to order by Mayor Washburn at 7:04 p.m. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Councilwoman Brinley. ROLL CALL PRESENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: ALONGI, BENDER, BRINLEY, PAPE, WASHBURN ABSENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: NONE Also present were: City Manager Molendyk, Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh, City Attorney Harper, Administrative services Director Boone, Community Development Director Leslie, Community services Director Sapp, Public Services Director Tecca and, City Clerk Kasad. - PRESENTATIONS/CEREMONIALS None. PUBLIC COMMENTS-AGENDIZED ITEMS Requests were received to address the following items and deferred to those discussions: Item Nos. 8, 31, 32 and 34. CONSENT CALENDAR The following items were pulled from the Consent Calendar for further discussion and consideration: Item Nos. 6, 8, 9 and 10. MOVED BY BRINLEY, SECONDED BY BENDER AND CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE TO APPROVE THE BALANCE OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS PRESENTED. 1. The following Minutes were approved: (F:44.4) a. Reqular city Council Meetinq - September 26, 1995. PAGE TWO - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 5. Approved the following Cost Recoveries for Abatement and Authorized the placing of special Liens against the properties: (F:32.4) a. 509 Ellis street - Thelma George. b. 3807 Eisenhower Drive - Mohamed Arhara. ..... 7. Adopted Resolution No. 95-66, Approving Traffic signal Maintenance Agreement with County of Riverside for the Intersection of Mission Trail/Corydon. (F:68.1) (X:162.4) RESOLUTION NO. 95-66 A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE, ESTABLISHING TRAFFIC SIGNAL MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT (MISSION TRAIL/CORYDON). ITEMS PULLED FROM CONSENT CALENDAR 6. Public Safety Reauest - Fire Eauipment. (F:127.3) Councilwoman Brinley requested that staff detail this item. city Manager Molendyk explained that this is a request for $4,000 toward the purchase of a semi-automatic defibrilator, for use by the Fire Trucks serving the city. He advised that the County will provide the specialized training for this equipment. He noted that this acquisition will upgrade the fire response ability for heart attack victims. MOVED BY BRINLEY, SECONDED BY WASHBURN AND CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE TO APPROPRIATE $4,000 FOR PURCHASE OF THE ABOVE DISCUSSED EQUIPMENT. I I .... 8. Establishment of Community Facilities District No. 95-1 - Resolution Nos. 95-67. 95-68 and 95-69. (F:22.3) Richard Knapp, 17261 Bromley, announced his candidacy for City Treasurer. He noted that the property in this District is owned by Oak Grove Equities, and questioned the parcels involved in this consideration. He questioned the appropriateness of a $3 million bond issuance in light of $8 million already dedicated to that parcel. He questioned why the owners would not obtain private financing for these funds. Councilman Alongi questioned the two lots on the property which are not included in the issuance and questioned the location of the work to be done by this District. City Attorney Harper advised that the two parcels which are not included are those where Walmart has already been constructed. He reminded the Council that community Facilities Districts carrv no obliaation on the Dart of the PAGE THREE - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 would come out of the $500 million Marks Roos Pool. City Attorney Harper indicated that he believes it will part of the pool. Councilman Alongi questioned the City's actions as the underwriter. city Attorney Harper clarified that the City is not the underwriter, but rather First California is the underwriter. Councilman Alongi inquired whether any portion of this funding would be out of the $500 million bond pool. City Attorney Harper clarified that it is in that it is the result of selling Mello-Roos Bonds; and further clarified the financing process. Alan Kapanicas, representing Berryman & Heniger, clarified the proposed $3 million authorization and stressed that the $3 million is a maximum authorization. He further clarified the importance of setting a ceiling amount. He indicated that any action of this type will include a figure slightly higher than the amount anticipated. Councilman Pape noted that this item establishes a public hearing for November 14th, and clarified that the property has not yet been appraised. Councilwoman Brinley requested clarification that this document was only a conceptual draft. Mr. Kapanicas explained that this action starts the process and sets the maximum limits. He further explained with regard to the parcels included in the District, the property owner designates the parcels to be assessed. MOVED BY WASHBURN, SECONDED BY PAPE AND CARRIED BY A VOTE OF 4 TO 1 WITH ALONGI CASTING THE DISSENTING VOTE TO ADOPT RESOLUTION NOS. 95-67, 95-68 AND 95-69. RESOLUTION NO. 95-67 A RESOLUTION ADOPTING LOCAL GOALS AND POLICIES FOR COMMUNITY FACILITIES DISTRICTS - COMMERCIAL PROPERTY. RESOLUTION NO. 95-68 A RESOLUTION OF INTENTION TO INCUR BONDED INDEBTEDNESS OF THE PROPOSED CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE COMMUNITY FACILITIES DISTRICT NO. 95-1 (LAKE ELSINORE CITY CENTER PLAZA PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS) PURSUANT TO THE MELLO-ROOS COMMUNITY FACILITIES ACT OF 1982. RESOLUTION NO. 95-69 A RESOLUTION OF INTENTION TO ESTABLISH A COMMUNITY FAICLITES nTAIJ'ItT~1J' lNn IJ'n lnIJ'RnItT~1l! IJ'R1l! T.1l!VV n.. A'D1l!~TlT. 1J'1Y1l!A 'DnltAnlWIJ' PAGE FOUR - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 councilman Alongi explained that this is a request for use of the Cultural Center and stressed that the taxpayers are paying the bill for this use. He expressed concern with the Chamber of Commerce's support of particular candidates. He suggested that all such organizations should be given the same allowance.He stressed the differences between the audience the Chamber and the A.A.R.P. will draw. - MOVED BY BRINLEY, SECONDED BY PAPE TO AFFIRM AND APPROVE THE CHAMBER'S USE OF THE CULTURAL CENTER FOR THE AFOREMENTIONED CANDIDATES FORUM. Mayor Washburn commented that the Chamber has been a non- political entity. He further commented that A.A.R.P. was invited to participate with the Chamber, but declined to do so. THE FOREGOING MOTION CARRIED BY A VOTE OF 4 TO 1 WITH ALONGI CASTING THE DISSENTING VOTE. 10. Consideration of Cancellation of October 24th city Council Meeting. (F:44.1) Councilman Alongi suggested that the public should know why the Council is cancelling the October 24th Meeting. city Manager Molendyk indicated that the meeting is being cancelled because Councilmembers Alongi, Brinley, Pape and Washburn will be attending the Annual League Meeting and there will not be quorum present. MOVED BY WASHBURN, SECONDED BY ALONGI AND CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE TO CANCEL THE OCTOBER 24, 1995, REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING. - BUSINESS ITEMS 31. Outlet Center Expansion Proposal. (F:150.2) city Manager Molendyk gave an overview of the past considerations and approvals of the Outlet Center; and detailed the proposed expansion, which would create an increase in jobs and tax increment for the city. He discussed the proposed 30 acre power center and noted that it would be similar to the type of center found in Corona off of the I-15, with Levitz, Home Depot and restaurants. He explained that McArthur Glen/Horizon Group, Inc. proposes to expand the Outlet Center in the first phase and complete the power center in the second phase. City Manager Molendyk stated that this work would commence in 1997 and be complete in the year 2000. He commended the owners of the Outlet Center for what they have done for the community so far and for what they see in the future. He explained that the tnt~l hlilrl-~l~ n~ ~ho ~l~lo~ ~on~o~ ~~" h~ ___ _~,,~__ PAGE FIVE - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 City Attorney Harper stated that the project is not in a Redevelopment Agency Project Area and the City has looked at other ways of assisting the developer. He gave an overview of financing options to allow the improvements to Nichols Road and the infrastructures. Kenny Smith, representing McArthur Glen/Horizon Group, Inc. gave an overview of the merger of McArthur Glen and Horizon Group, Inc. and explained the proposed future plans for the Outlet Center. Mr. smith commented on the type of retailers and manufacturers that use outlet centers and the type of competition that this Outlet Center uses. He explained how important it is to progress and made note of the problems that they are facing with the proposed development of the expansion. He stressed the need to have the city participate in the project in order to pencil out the funding and justify to their Board of Directors the feasibility of the project. He pointed out that his company has a $50,000,000 investment in the City to date, and his company would like to triple that to $150,000,000 investment and over a million square feet of retail space. He stated that his company has enjoyed a good relationship with the City and looks forward to many more years of prosperity. --- Councilman Alongi questioned the total amount of the investment for the total amount of new development. Mr. smith stated that the new one will be another $50,000,000 in outlet center space and another $50,000,000 in entertainment and retail space north of Nichols Road, so it would be a total of $100,000,000. Mayor Pro Tem Bender asked if the assistance covers all the proposed phases. Mr. smith confirmed. Mayor Pro Tem Bender asked how the sales estimates for the new phases of the Outlet Center compare with what is currently made at the existing Outlet Center. Mr. smith stated that the estimates are conservative and set slightly under what the existing Outlet Center is doing today. He pointed out that store sizes are growing in the outlet business and as some of the new tenants come in they are requiring larger stores, therefore it will contain slightly less stores, but the square footage is larger and sales projections are similar in square footage so the sales amounts will be approximately the same as the existing center. Mayor Pro Tem Bender asked what McArthur Glen/HGI envisions for the fourth phase entertainment/retail portion. Mr. Smith indicated that the retail would be "Big Box" users such as Price Club. He explained that "Big Box" users find it advantageous to be located next to an outlet center. He further indicated that the entertainment component consists of things such as a movie theater, restaurants and hotels which are complimentary uses for a tourist destination. He noted that the final uses decided upon will be market driven. PAGE SIX - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 Councilman Pape pointed out that the next phase is projected to be opened by June 1997, consisting of 48 stores and a payroll of $5,000,000; with sales of $50,000,000 generating about $500,000 in sales tax and asked if the numbers reflect inflation. Mr. smith stated that they did not, but rather current dollars. Councilman Pape suggested that at final build-out the numbers are quite conservative based on figures from today's market. Mr. smith concurred. He stated that 200,000 square feet is the largest phase and the first phase of the current center was 150,000 square feet and the subsequent phases have been smaller than that, so this is a very large subsequent phase and his company feels that it is what is warranted and needed to hold their position in the market of outlet centers. He noted that at full build-out this center will be the largest in Southern California. Councilman Pape questioned the fees that McArthur Glen/HGI will be paying for water and sewer. Mr. smith explained that they will be getting a small credit for infrastructure, but it will not be a significant portion of the fees that will be required to be paid. Councilman Pape asked if they would be prepared for those fees. Mr. smith stated that they are prepared for this due to the amount of fees paid for the first phases. Mayor Pro Tem Bender clarified the fact that the 7% interest is a pass through to off-set interest charged to McArthur Glen/HGI for the funds; and the city would be obligated for those funds which would be paid out of the sales tax increment the City receives. He further clarified that the City gets the first $100,000, McArthur Glen/HGI gets the second $100,000 and the remainder is split between the city and McArthur Glen/HGI for the duration of the project and the interest would amount to is $210,000. He asked if the first phase would generate enough money to reduce the principle of the debt. Mr. smith explained that the paYment is based on the sales tax generated during each year; and it is not required that each year the City pay the current interest amount, but rather what is paid is what the current sales tax in any given year works out to. Mayor Pro Tem Bender asked if the $3,000,000, which is the beginning principal amount would ever get reduced or increased if there should be a tax revenue shortfall. Mr. Smith stated that the principle amount will never be increased. City Attorney Harper clarified that this is a loan that is amortized over a 25 year period and is anticipated that 50% sales tax revenue will substantially exceed the interest in anyone year and any additional monies goes toward the reduction of the principle. He stated that based upon both staff and the developer's anticipated sales tax generation, the entire principal and interest should be paid significantly sooner than the 25 years. He further explained that paYment of any kind comes out of the nO'Tolnnor'~ ~h~ro nT Tho ~~lo~ T~V Ro nnTon Th~T ;T ;~ nnT ..... .... t~?l PAGE SEVEN - CZTY COUHCZL MZHUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 -- reasons why the developer is willing to take the risk. City Attorney Harper explained that based upon sales tax which is generated from the current Outlet Center, it would appear that it will be fairly easy for the $3,000,000 to be repaid well within the terms of the operating covenant and only out of the developer's share. He asked if this better clarified the issue. Mayor Pro Tem Bender compared it to a mortgage on a home; noting that if the interest and monthly paYment are met then they are fine, and if it is not then the interest paYment is added to the principle. He asked if this will occur with this debt and is the $3,000,000 at the top end of the amount and can it be paid off earlier; or will it grow if there is not enough sales tax to pay the interest and principle. Mr. smith stated that if Mayor Pro Tem Bender is asking about principle growing by virtue of interest unpaid, then it could potentially grow, but if that scenario should exist, then it would be forgiven in 25 years. City Attorney Harper stated that the 25 year term, even though it is optimistically being suggested that it will be paid sooner than that, the 25 year term was intended to be a reasonable approximation of what it would take to amortize the loan. He noted that there should be enough sales tax that 50% of it pays a $3,000,000 note over 25 years, just as a mortgage where interest on interest could be paid, the City has the advantage that at the end of 25 years, if it is still not paid off, then there is no obligation to pay more. Mr. smith stated that the opposite is also true to the extent that if the City pays anything beyond the interest, then it obviously reduces the principle. Mayor Pro Tem Bender clarified his understanding of the information regarding the $3,000,000. Councilwoman Brinley clarified the fact that at the end of 25 years .if the loan is not paid in full, then it is forgiven. City Attorney Harper confirmed that statement. Councilman Alongi asked how much sales tax Cabazon or Barstow contributed to their Outlet Centers. Mr. smith stated Cabazon did have a direct sales tax rebate, but he did not know about Barstow. Councilman Alongi asked if it was property tax as well as sales tax. Mr. smith stated that it was just the sales tax. Mayor Pro Tem Bender stated that what he was looking for was if in the future the City does "Gang Buster" sales amounts and the city finds itself with excess funds then could the City payoff the $3,000,000 early. He explained that he was hoping that there would be no escalation of the principle amount, so that the City could not pay this debt off in a possible five years which would allow the City to keep all of the sales tax revenue. He explained that as the sales tax revenue increases, it will be sizeable at a later date which would be in the best interests of the city. Mayor Pro m__ D__~__ _.._.._~ ..l..._.. l..._ ..: _ ......___.~ .._ ___ ..........: _ ___...;.__.. ___..... PAGE EIGHT - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 partnerships between city and Business to accomplish the needs and wants of the Community. Mayor Washburn stated that when the Outlet Center first developed in Lake Elsinore the agreement the City struck was for $5,000,000; and noted that it is now $3,000,000. He commented that this is one of the most important economic development projects that this City has seen and will continue to grow. He indicated that he is excited to see this project continue forward. Mayor Washburn called upon the persons who requested to speak as follows: Dick Knapp, 17261 Bromley street, stated that he considers this another Wal-Mart scam. He pointed out that if McArthur Glen/HGI can borrow $3,000,000 to loan to the City at 7% interest and the City is going to pay them 7% interest back plus the $3,000,000, then the city is loosing approximately $6,000,000 in sales tax that should be coming into the City to pay for more fire and police protection. He noted that the same thing happened with Wal-Mart, and out of the $4,000,000 that the City has borrowed, we must repay $8,000,000 from sales tax money. He stated that if they can afford to borrow this amount of money, then they should just do the project and leave the City out of the picture. He stated that the citizens of the City would like to see all of the tax revenue come into the City and not half of it. Chris Hyland, 15191 Wavecrest Drive, asked if the City generated the amount of sales tax from the Outlet Center that they thought they were going to at the outset of the first phase of the project. She pointed out how many merchants have moved in and out of the Outlet Center. She stated that if the city does not approve this loan, then the developer will not put in the expansion of the Outlet Center. She indicated that she would rather see the $3,000,000 go to the small businesses of the community that are already in the City and need the help rather than to this project. She pointed out that they need the help. She again asked that the people be informed as to how much in sales tax has been generated from that Center, the tenant history and the fact that if the City does not buy into the $3,000,000, they would not build the next phase. Councilman Alongi stated that if Council were sitting as the Redevelopment Agency then they would not be discussing sales tax. He asked why the city Council operates differently and indicated that he feels that the Outlet Center that the City invested in is a good investment and was done properly and the sales tax increment is retiring the debt, even through it is short a small amount, but at build out will absolve the debt. He explained that he does not have a problem with ~___~J__ ~~_ _~~__ ___~J__ _& ~~_ ___~__~ ._.~~~ __,__ ~_" .... .... PAGE NINE - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 He pointed out the difficulty to develop on their site and pointed out the problems that Wal-Mart had, and noted that they should have picked an area in the City which would not be so hard to build on. Councilman Alongi pointed out the vacancy rate in the City and asked why the City would want to build another. He stated that the Outlet Center in place is a good one and the City helped them do the first phase; however, now that it is built-out they should take their profits and invest across the street to expand, but he objects to them again coming to the city to ask for more help. He asked where the hand out is for the citizens who are going to give up these taxes. He pointed out that this is a $100,000,000 project and if they have the money to do this, then they have the $3,000,000 to place the off-sites. He pointed out that they should create a CFD and let the tenants pay the bill. He stated that his problem is using the sales tax and indicated that the City should deal with them just as though the RDA were dealing with them and that would be through tax increment. He clarified the fact that if the increment were large enough to reduce the debt, then fine and if it is not then in 25 years the debt is clear. -- Councilman Pape pointed out the value of the project and the fact that McArthur Glen/HGI keeps their word. He pointed out the contribution to the economic additions to the community through jobs and property as well as tax dollars. He stated that McArthur Glen/HGI is the largest Outlet Center developer in the state and that they have the ability to make this project work, which will in turn benefit the City and it grow and do the things that are necessary. He stated that the majority of the $3,000,000 is going to the Water District, therefore it will stay in the City. MOVED BY PAPE, SECONDED BY WASHBURN TO APPROVE "THE AGREEMENT TO DEVELOP AND OPERATE SHOPPING CENTER" FOR THE OUTLET CENTER EXPANSION. Mayor Washburn stated that this is Lake Elsinore's Regional Mall and he feels that if the vote is for approval then it is the best decision that this Council can make. He pointed out that he was on the Council seven years ago when Mr. smith brought the project forward and at that time it was a toss-up whether this project was going to Temecula or here and through hard work the city made it an economic reality, which was the best thing that happened for our community. He pointed out that another thing that almost went to Temecula and that was the Stadium. He explained that people may not agree with him, but that facility has created a positive public relations image with good quality comments for Lake Elsinore; which helped to create good economic energy in the community. He pointed out that these two projects are going to help Lake Elsinore get out of its economic problems due to cuts in the state and will generate ;nh~ f'n,... Th,:o ("nmmlln;T\1'~ ~nn~_ n~l1nhT,:o,...~ ~nn f',...;,:onnl:: PAGE TEN - CXTY COUNCXL MXNUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 32. Second Reading - Ordinance No. 1004 - relatinq to Stormwater/Urban Runoff Management & Discharge Controls. (F:155.1) MOVED BY WASHBURN, SECONDED BY PAPE TO ADOPT ORDXNANCE NO. 1004 UPON SECOND READXNG BY TXTLE ONLY: ORDXNANCE NO. 1004 - AN ORDXNANCE OF THE CXTY OF LAKE ELSXNORE, ESTABLXSHXNG STORMWATER/URBAN RUNOFF MANAGEMENT AND DXSCBARGE CONTROLS. UPON THE FOLLOWXNG ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: COUNCXLMEMBERS: ALONGX, BENDER, BRINLEY, PAPE, WASHBURN NOES: COUNCXLMEMBERS: NONE ABSENT: COUNCXLMEHBERS: NONE ABSTAXN: COUNCXLMEHBERS: NONE 33. Reauest for Waiver of Fees - A.A.R.P. (F:92.2) (X:108.1) City Manager Molendyk explained that a request was received for waiver of the fees for use of the Cultural Center for a Candidate Forum. He noted that Mr. Louis Stark representing A.A.R.P. was present to discuss this matter. Louis Stark, representing A.A.R.P., commented on his application for use of the Cultural Center which was submitted on September 8, 1995. He indicated that he would __ concur that the co-sponsorship of the Chamber was appropriate. He explained their request for waiver of fees and detailed the plans underway for the Candidate Forum. He indicated that whether this request is approved or not, the Forum will be held on October 26th. He indicated that they did not want to get involved in the politics of the situation; and further indicated that he felt it best to withdraw the request at this time. He noted his efforts on the proposed campaign limitation ordinance and his concerns for the upcoming election. He corrected the Mayor with regard to his contact with the Chamber of Commerce; indicating that he did contact them, but never received a return phone call from the Chamber. Mayor Washburn noted for the record that this request had been withdrawn. 34. Halloween Candy Fest - Reauested bv Councilman Alonqi. (F:151.1) (X:108.7) Councilman Alongi stated that he asked for this item to be brought before Council because the Downtown Business :a.c::.c::.nr.;~rinn To7nnlr'l lilro rn ....lnc::.o nf'f' M~in c::r....oor f'n.... ~'ho ~ PAGE ELEVEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 Rick Zwiefel, representative for the Downtown Business Association, stated that on Halloween night from 6:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. the Downtown Business Association and the merchants in the Historical Downtown will be having their 2nd Annual Safe Candy Night. He explained that most of the merchants will be staying open late to pass out candy to the community. He noted that last year they had a great turn- out of children and their parents who participated in Safe Candy Night and they expect a larger crowd this year. Mr. Zwiefel stated that they are requesting that the City block off Main Street from 6:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. for the safety of the children. He explained that they had quite a few children last year and what they are asking is that the City block off Main Street for the safety of the children. He pointed out that all of the stores are closed, but they do keep their lights on and are open to the children to pass out candy. Mayor Washburn asked how many stores are going to participate. Mr. Zwiefel stated that 90% of the stores will be participating. He stated that last year only two stores did not participate. ~ Mayor Pro Tem Bender asked if the street was closed last year. Mr. Zwiefel indicated that the street was not closed, but one of the merchants put an orange vest on and helped the children cross the street. He explained that there were a number of cars coming through the area and he felt it was dangerous. He pointed out that the DBA supplies two security guards for the event for the safety of the participants. He further explained that they do expect more kids this year and noted that they give out prizes for best costumes as well. Mayor Pro Tem Bender asked if the event last year was concurrent with the events at the Community Center. Mr. Zwiefel confirmed that it was the same night. Mayor Pro Tem Bender asked if the DBA could provide crossing guard or traffic control service for the intersection instead of blocking off the street, noting the difficulty of closing the street. Mr. Zwiefel stated that they were yelled at for having a guy out in the middle of the street and that is why they are asking for the City to block off the street for the hours of the event. Councilwoman Brinley stated that she felt what Mayor Pro Tem Bender was asking was if the DBA was willing to have a crossing guard to help the children across the street. She asked if the DBA would be willing to provide that. Mr. Zwiefel explained that what they had last year was an ROTC member on each corner because they volunteered their time, and he offered check with them to see if they can do it again. He stated that his request was based on the fact that the merchants were just looking out for the safety of the children. PAGE TWELVE -CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 the City must provide police officers if a public street is closed at a cost of $1,941. City Manager Molendyk stated that this is not a budgeted item and would have to be paid by the applicant, or Council would have to authorize staff to use the funds from reserves. He explained that he is protecting the safety of the City and the budget and Mr. Zwiefel is looking after the children and between them it would be appropriate to look at Council Policy. - Mayor Washburn stated that there was no mention of insurance coverage and that would mean a $1,000.000 liability policy for the event. Mr. Zwiefel stated that the DBA does have $1,000,000 coverage. Councilwoman Brinley stated that she figures a total of approximately $3,000 for this event. Mr. Zwiefel stated that regarding the barricades, when DBA does the street Fairs they have a list from Public Services Director Tecca in regard to where they are to be placed and Mr. Zwiefel picks the barricades up from Alert Barricades and he places them himself at a cost of $55. He further explained that if Council would consider this possibility, he would be happy to pick up the barricades and place them in the appropriate spots. Councilwoman Brinley asked if the City could place the barricades. Public Services Director Tecca stated that Mr. Zwiefel could pick up and place the barricades, but he would have to hire someone to man the barricades to be sure that they stay in place and intact throughout the event and be sure to return them at the appropriate time. Councilwoman Brinley asked if DBA would have to hire someone or if volunteers could be used. Public Services Director __ Tecca stated that in his experience volunteers have to be backed up and in regard to other events, city has staff in the streets to control the situation. He explained that if someone other than a professional group does this there will have to be backup staff. Mayor Washburn inquired if this event went forward, would it be possible for no City staff to be involved. He pointed out that the City's staff will be working the City's Halloween Event the night before and he felt that it was unfair to ask the staff to give up their time with their families to work the next night for this function if it is approved. City Manager Molendyk stated that he would have to ask Mr. Tecca, since he would be able to tell us how many people would be needed for this event and how many of his staff would be used the night before. He further stated that staff are not volunteers and must be paid for working the event. Councilwoman Brinley asked how much money DBA would be willing to put into this project. Mayor Washburn stated +-'h':'li+- .;+- .;;~ ......_~ _ ______ _...__..:__ 1.-....... __.L.'-___ __'--_..I..... ..1.....'1- _ ___ ..L PAGE THZRTEEN - CZTY COUNCZL KZNUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 it is a night that all of the police units are on patrol in the City and this would force the city to take officers from patrol to man the barricades. Mayor Washburn asked for input from the Community Services Director. community services Director Sapp stated that he does not know what the status of the staff will be on Halloween night since they will all be working the night before on the City's project. He indicated that he would have to see who will be available. Mayor Washburn asked how many volunteers the city used last year for the City's event. Community services Director Sapp stated that there were 27. Mayor Washburn asked how many were DBA members. Community services Director Sapp stated that he did not know, but there have been a few that have volunteered. ~ Councilman Pape stated that he felt that the DBA's heart was in the right place just as there will be children allover the City. He urged all persons who will be driving on Halloween night to be cautious while driving throughout the entire city. He stated that it is unfortunate that the City had to cut out so many programs due to money, but he did not know if it was wise to pull from reserves for this type of use. He stated that he did feel that it was a good idea to use the ROTC to act as crossing guards and to help the younger children. He indicated he hopes that the parents are also with them to keep the intersections safe. He stated that he would like to see the city help many things, but unfortunately the City does not have a bottomless pocket and it makes it very difficult to make choices. Mayor Pro Tem Bender asked how many children visited the Downtown area last year and how much traffic impacted the area. Mr. Zwiefel stated that traffic was more congested than any other night. He noted that Main Street was packed from head to toe with children and parents; and he guessed there were approximately 800 to 1000 children and parents in the Downtown. He noted that at the end of the event there is an award of a bicycle given to the 5 and under age group, and one for the 5 to 10 year age group for the best costume so most stay to the very end. He explained that they plan on having two security persons to keep the area safe. Mayor Pro Tem Bender pointed out that Mr. Zwiefel's ideas are good, but there are different ways to approach this and if the City becomes involved, there are different liabilities involved and if the City can stay out of the event and have it run by volunteers then it can be done for less cost and he would prefer this. He pointed out that the police will be overtaxed and he commended Mr. Zwiefel and the DBA for their efforts, but now it is a matter of finding the most reasonable way to take action. Mr. Zwiefel stated that the Downtown merchants are going to go forward and all that they are asking for is a little support and help from the City for the safetv of the children. He exnlained that if th~ PAGE FOURTEEN - CZTY COUHCZL HZHUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 if he suggested that the City spend any money on this item. He explained that the City has already cut so many other projects and he does not feel that it would be right to dip into City reserves to fund a project for the DBA, since he does not recognize the DBA as an organization. He stated that he does support the kids and any action for the safety of the kids, but that he feels that any money that is spent on this project should come from the DBA. - MOVED BY WASHBURN TO DENY ASSZSTANCE FOR THE HALLOWEEN CANDY FEST. MOVED BY ALONGZ TO APPROVE ASSZSTANCE FOR THE HALLOWEEN CANDY FEST. BOTH MOTZONS DZED FOR LACK OF A SECOND. Councilwoman Brinley stated that in one respect she does concur with the Mayor regarding the funds, since she cannot justify going into the reserves and she wishes that there had been an opportunity to have dialogue regarding the details of the event prior to the Council Meeting. She asked why there was not more notice of the event so that the different issues could be addressed prior to having it placed on the Agenda and having it worked out at the Council Table. She asked why she was not called in order to give more time for review and an opportunity to resolve financial issues. Mr. Zwiefel stated that the Council just waived the $300 for the use of the Cultural Center tonight and all that his organization is asking for is $55 for barricades. Mayor __ Washburn stated that it is more in the amount of $2,000. He explained that the requirement to cover city insurance, barricades and patrol officers. He stated that if the DBA wants the activity they can pay for it. He asked if the item were approved, would the DBA pay for this event. Mr. Zwiefel stated that all they have heard from this Council is that "we need to start working together", and that is what his organization is trying to do. He pointed out that all they are asking for is $55 and he will provide the labor. Mayor Washburn stated that the $1,600 is to cover the city's responsibility. City Attorney Harper clarified that the $1,600 is not just to cover the barricades, it is to provide the delivery and additional manning of the barricades. He pointed out that it is up to Council to decide whether the volunteers are reliable enough or not to protect the City and DBA. He noted that as soon as the City or DBA takes action the risk goes up and the standard to care goes up. He explained that there is a certain obligation to maintain and man the barricades to make certain that there will be no accidents caused. City Attorney Harper stated that if there is an accident then it nl]~~ ~hA ~i~v ~n~ ~ho n~n ~n PAGE FIFTEEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 MOVED BY BENDER, SECONDED BY BRINLEY TO APPROVE THE CLOSURE OF THE STREETS FROM 6:00 P.M. TO 9:00 P.M., PREDICATED ON THE DBA PICKING UP THE COST PER HOUR FOR POLICE OFFICERS WHICH WILL MONITOR THIS EVENT AND THAT DBA WILL SECURE THE BARRICADES CONTINGENT UPON A VOLUNTEER LIST APPROVED BY THE CITY. Councilman Alongi stated that they would provide private Security Guards. Mayor Pro Tem Bender stated that he understood that when city streets are blocked off, that sworn officers need to be involved in the procedure. councilman Alongi stated that this information needs to be made part of the minutes since none of the rest of Council recognizes the DBA and asked how many sworn officers were at the Street Fair. Mr. Zwieffel stated that there were none. Councilman Alongi asked if the maker of the motion would change the motion to read community services officers instead of sworn officers. Mayor Pro Tem Bender stated that he would. Councilwoman Brinley asked if that would still maintain the City's insurance liabilities. City Attorney Harper stated that there is no difference in a sworn officer versus a community services officer so far as the City's liability is concerned. He explained that they have equal authority in regard to this matter. ~ Councilman Pape stated that he was not comfortable to have volunteers man the barricades when we have a company available who would be responsible. He stated that when safety is downgraded then it exposes the City to greater liability. He stated that it is not as though the children will not have candy from other sources. He stated that if they want to put this event on and not close the street then that is o.k., but if they wish to do it right then they can pay the fees and continue with the event. Mayor Washburn stated that he concurred with Councilman Pape and stated if the DBA wants to present this event, then they should do what staff recommends which is the barricades put in place and the deputies in place with the cost covered by the DBA. Mayor Washburn clarified the Motion. AMENDED MOTION BY BENDER, SECONDED BY BRINLEY TO APPROVE THE CLOSURE OF THE STREETS FROM 6:00 P.M. TO 9:00 P.M., PREDICATED ON THE DBA BEARING THE COST PER HOUR FOR SWORN POLICE OFFICERS OR COMMUNITY SERVICES OFFICERS WHICH WILL MONITOR THE EVENT, AND THAT DBA WILL PICK UP, RETURN AND SECURE THE BARRICADES CONTINGENT UPON A VOLUNTEER LIST APPROVED BY THE CITY. ~vv vnnv~nTV~ vn~Tnv m~a ~nnnnuvn ~ ~n ~ mT~V m~avnnnv ~vn n~nv PAGE SIXTEEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 Donna Franson, resident of Tuscany Hills, expressed concern for children in the area in light of the proposed Haunted House. She stressed traffic and fire department concerns on Halloween, and noted the added impact this type of event would cause. She indicated that she felt the Haunted House might be a good idea for next year, but not in a residential area. Ryan Fallon, indicated that he participates in a Car Club called "Propaganda" and expressed concern for recent threats and actions by the local gang E.Y.C. He requested that the Council request assistance from the Police Department and noted the extent of past calls for assistance. City Manager Molendyk indicated that staff is aware of the problem and the Police Department is working on it. - Chris Hyland, 15191 Wavecrest Drive, commented on the "cowards" in the City and noted signs and other item which have been placed in her front yard. She noted the removal of her signs, but not other candidate signs. She further indicated that she is receiving threatening phone calls which she now has on tape. Mariana Mohylyn, 305 W. Sumner, questioned why money seems to go to those with money. She expressed concern with actions against property and liens placed. She questioned why the City works against small business people. Rick Zwiefel, 101 S. Main Street, commented that the D.B.A. brought the Halloween Candy Fest before the Council, beacuse they could not afford the security. He expressed disbelief that the Mayor could not put personal beliefs aside for the sake of the children. He expressed his wish that the feuding downtown stop. - CITY MANAGER COMMENTS City Manager Molendyk commented on the following: 1) Reminded Council of the Study Session scheduled for October 17th at 8:30 a.m. (This study session was later cancelled, because a quorum of the city Council was not available.) 2) Detailed the Crime Summit which was co-sponsored by the City and the Sheriff's Department on October 6th at the Diamond Club. He noted the participation of Attorney General Lundgren and stressed that this was a positive event for the Community. He also noted the pUblic safety fair which was held on Saturday with good attendance. CITY COUNCIL COMMENTS Councilman Alongi commented on the following: 1) R~minnpn ~h,:> Pnhl;,.. ::oh"'11+- h~,"" ""..........~______ __ T___' __L'_ PAGE SEVENTEEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 deals that were made in the past and he feels that Council is selling the City down the drain. Councilman Alongi noted that a lot of people moved to this community because it was quiet and small and at the rate of development we will end up like Orange County which is a large metropolis, but if the majority of people want that then as an Elected Official he has to support that and see that it is done right. He pointed out that he has a right to his opinion as to how the City should do business. He pointed out that the tax dollars are what support these different shopping centers and not all of the community reaps the benefits. He explained that instead of giving all the incentives to the large shopping centers some incentive should be given to the small shopping centers. 3) Pointed out that the Chamber of Commerce is not political. He pointed out that Mrs. Brinley had stated that she felt that DBA should have brought their item to her sooner, but the Chamber of Commerce is having their forum tomorrow night and the item is before Council tonight just the same as the DBA item. He stated that Mrs. Brinley was expressing concern regarding the $55. for the DBA event from our reserves and yet was not concerned regarding the $25,000 the Chamber of Commerce received from the same budget. He noted that there is no consistency in the way that Council conducts business. ,-- 4) He stated that he felt that it was a shame that Council turns its back on the Senior citizens of this community and pointed out that AARP is made up of seniors and the different interests they have regarding the candidates versus a business interest. He pointed out that he felt that it was unfair for the Chamber of Commerce to take possession of the Cultural Center and subsidize it with tax dollars for a Candidate Forum and ignore the seniors and the issues they support. He stated that if the Council is going to subsidize one then the other should be as well. 5) Agreed with Tuscany Hills residents and stated that he felt that it was O.K. to do something for the neighborhood, but not to open up an enterprise to the entire community. He stated that he agreed that it should be removed. 6) Commented on volunteers and pointed out that this country was built on volunteers. He explained that even professional enterprises have failed once in a while and that no one is perfect. He pointed out that everyone makes mistakes and if the DBA has volunteers and wish to give service, who is Council to sit and say that they ,do not trust them to do the job. He pointed PAGE EiGHTEEN - CiTY COUNCiL MiNUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 8) He pointed out that the sewers that Councilman Pape was discussing were not fees, that was for infrastructure. He explained that business has the opportunity to recoup those funds, but the City does not. 9) He stated that in the future he hoped that the whole Council will make decisions based on what is equal for the whole community and divide the processes and the taxes among all of them. He stated that he does not oppose more development, but rather Council should be more careful. He explained that if that is what the community wants then that is what it should be. ..... 10) Noted that the Safety Fair at the Ballfield on Saturday was great. He explained that there was police, fire rescue and LEAF and their demonstrations were impressive. Councilman Pape commented on the following: 1) Made note of the fact that his vote regarding the Halloween Candy night did not reflect any real or imagined past rifts, since he does not care about those things, but rather his concern was that a City street cannot just be closed and some barricades be thrown up and not do it properly with out the city having a large liability. He stated that it must be done correctly and if they are willing to pay for and do it right, then he does not have a problem with the event. He pointed out that his decision was based on the facts presented. .... 2) Addressed the gentleman from the car club and pointed out that he has zero tolerance for that type of gang activity. He stated that if anyone has information regarding the cars they were in or a description they should call the police. 3) Asked staff to look at a curfew ordinance to set the city's Ordinance to current standards. He noted that the one that the city has now was enacted in 1949 and hopes that the new one will be ready by the next meeting to assist in address some of the gang issues. 4) Commented on the Crime Summit last Saturday and noted that Sheriff smith was there and that the dinning room at the Diamond was full and expressed his pride regarding the city and the Stadium. He pointed out that even the Attorney General had nice comments about the Diamond. He explained that the Summit gave all the cities in attendance to exchange ideas and solutions. 5) Suggested that AARP do a Candidate Forum at the Senior Center during the day and give the Seniors that do not PAGE NINETEEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 look good now, but will not be a problem a few years down the road. He stated that when there is a complex of that size it should be addressed carefully. 7) suggested to candidates that they be careful where they put their signs. He pointed out that sometimes it is not the candidate, but rather their volunteer that gets over zealous and noted that there are a lot of sings popping up in right-of-ways, medians, trees, guard rails and telephone poles. He explained that those are inappropriate places for signs and can cause problems and will most likely be taken down by staff. He pointed out that if the candidate takes them down then they can be placed in appropriate places. Councilman Pape pointed out that a past candidate had placed illegal signs and was latter billed for their removal. Councilwoman Brinley commented on the following: ~ 1) Commented on the Crime Summit and expressed her pride in the Stadium and the community. She suggested that the young man from the car club contact Captain Boyd. 2) Addressed her comments to Mr. Zwiefel and stated that if the DBA was going to do an activity that would create possible problems, she suggested that it be brought before Council and discussed so that the City can lend proper assistance and not present it to Council at the last moment. She stated she felt that they should sit down and communicate which would solve a lot of the problems that occur. She stated that she felt that there were several organizations that should do the same. She stated that we all needed to start working together and give respect and a little room. She explained that she felt that the Halloween Candy Night was wonderful, but she had a problem regarding the safety of the children and the liability to the City. She stated that Council has responsibilities to the City that have to be met. Mayor Pro Tem Bender commented on the following: 1) Noted that he spoke several times with different groups around the city to inform them regarding the things that they can do themselves to help clean up things on their own properties as well as landscaping, paint and picking up garbage. He wished to commend the Seers Plaza for their landscaping and clean up efforts. He pointed out that this puts Lake Elsinore in a more positive light. 2) Commented on the up-coming the different ideas of the citizens of the community. Councilpersons job to sift elections and pointed out various organization and He pointed out that it is a through all the input and PAGE TWENTY - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - OCTOBER 10, 1995 Mayor Washburn commented on the following: 1) Commented on the election and stated that the community should look at each candidate, their background, what they say and how they act. He pointed out that they should like their town, they should represent their community as well as possible. He noted that there should not be a single ax to grind since that is a singular interest. He cautioned the public to look for quality people that like their community that have some type of background, whether it is being on Planning Commission, years of engineering or whatever the case may be. He stressed that they must like the community. He stated that if they do not like the community they end up attacking the community, the City and staff. He stated that if they are still at odds, he invited the public to call and he would give them some ideas. .... 2) Pointed out that there is a new officer in training for our department to be dedicated for the West End. He pointed out that this will add some extra enforcement. He commented that Mr. Lundgrin stated that it is really a community affair and stated that he asked how many people know their neighbors, or three or four of their neighbors. He pointed out that if you know your neighbors and you have a Crime Watch program, that is the roots of solving crime and builds from that level. City Manager Molendyk stated that we are looking at January to bring the new officer on. 3) Announced the city's Haunted House at the Community Center which will open the day before Halloween. Invited people to bring their children. .... 4) Announced the results of the Old Town Temecula Tractor Race and stated that the Mayor of Temecula Won by default because their was a problem with the tractors. CLOSED SESSION a. Lake Elsinore Associates vs. City/Redevelopment Agency - Case #200767. b. Ervin S. & Carol E Palmer vs. City/Redevelopment Agency, etc. - Case #267394. CITY ATTORNEY HARPER ADVISED THAT THERE WAS NO NEED FOR DISCUSSION OF THESE MATTERS AT THIS TIME, DUE TO THE LACK OF NEW INFORMATION. ADJOURNMENT THE REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 9:31 P.M. A