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HomeMy WebLinkAbout12-18-1997- City Council Study SessionMINUTES CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE 130 SOUTH MAIN STREET LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA CONFERENCE ROOM DECEMBER 18, 1997 CALL TO ORDER The Study Session was called to order by Mayor Pape at 10:15 a.m. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The Pledge of Allegiance was led by City Manager Watenpaugh. ROLL CALL PRESENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: ALONGI, BRINLEY, KELLEY, METZE, PAPE ABSENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: NONE Also present were: City Manager Watenpaugh, City Attorney Leibold, Assistant to the City Manager Best, City Engineer O'Donnell, Special Projects Director Molendyk, Public Services Director Sapp, Building and Safety Manager Russell, Planning Commissioner Schiffner, Planning Commissioner Sands, Senior Planner Morita, Senior Planner Villa, and City Clerk Kasad. ' N -'] N WKIMMIXURN, TR 049 11 VA-DJ None. 1. ilndate on TMC Liberty Project. (F:150.2) Mayor Pape noted the topic to be discussed. City Manager Watenpaugh introduced Special Projects Director Molendyk who has been working with TMC's staff. Special Projects Director Molendyk noted that TMC has been working in the floodplain area for quite a while and changed the concept in the last few months from the traditional approach to the new concept called "Liberty". He further noted that a constant question that has been asked is when the project is going to start, and the purpose of this meeting is to discuss TMC's Phase I project which is planned to start in spring of 1998. Special Projects Director Molendyk noted the very qualified consultant team that TMC has put together who are working to begin bulk grading in March of this year. PAGE TWO - STUDY SESSION - DECEMBER 18, 1"7 He explained that the purpose of this meeting is to try and save a step and hasten the project along. He reminded the people present that the project is in RDA Project Area III, and noted the explained that consultants present at this meeting. He TMC wants to clarify the steps for the Council and answer any questions, and reiterated TMC's intent to start in spring u 1998. l a a He introduced Mary Lynn Coffee, General Counsel for TMC. Ms. Coffee explained that meetings were held in the fall to discuss the vision for "Liberty" as a project and specifically Phase I. She commented on Cooper - Robertson, Master Architects and their exciting vision regarding the recreation of the "American Home Town" which is surrounded by open space and next to "Stadium Town" which is anchored by the Stadium. She noted that the theme and vision for the project is in place and explained that it is time to proceed with the project. She made note that they are the team responsible for getting the necessary entitlements and approvals for the first Phase and their attempt to place the project on an accelerated schedule. She explained that TMC's goal is to begin ground work in the spring, with models Open by July 4, 1999. Ms. Coffee explained the approvals necessary for the project, which is located in the back basin and noted that it is a long list, as stated in the 1993 Eastlake Specific Plan, which includes the Army Corps of Engineers, the Flood Control Agency, the City and EWA She emphasized the Phase I Area on an exhibit map, and stressed the approvals necessary. She explained that the team assures them that they know what approvals are necessary and they will get them in place on time. She further noted that they will concurrently seek approvals from other agencies. Ms. Coffee explained that the City will be involved in the Specific Plan Amendment, Grading Plan approvals,, and Tentative Map approvals, etc. She commented that the first logical approval is the Specific Plan Amendment and noted that there are some refinements needed under the current plan to assure that it is consistent with the constructed project. She explained that they have reduced some intensity and density on the residential and commercial Portions. She fiuther noted that the project as proposed, will have less environmental impacts then that of the 1993 Specific Plan Amendment She introduced the entire team present for this meeting. Steve Ross, representing the Planning Center, explained that he would like to spend some time reestablishing familiarity with the Liberty project location, size and magnitude; followed by focusing on the proposed first Phase plan as well as reviewing the schedule anticipated for the project. He noted that this is intended as a heads up meeting with the intent to facilitate an accelerated schedule and will help them to move quickly for approvals. He presented slides to familiarize Council and the audience with the project, which included an aerial photo of the Lake, the Liberty property, the Airport and I- 15. He stressed the size and magnitude of the property. Mr. Ross stated that the advantage in planning this property is the opportunity to complete the end of the Lake. Mr'. Ross presented a second slide of an aerial straight down on the property and relationship to existing developments and. detailed the size of the property, being 2 -1/2 miles across and compared the property to central pa�lcist�Ie� Yc� aad `ice Leh; SaiatalBeaeh a+orl PAGE THREE - STUDY SESSION DECEMBER 18, 1997 Beach, showing the property to be significant in size and scale. He also compared Eastlake/Liberty project in size to the City of Pasadena which shows the significance of the area. Mr. Ross'presented a slide of the First Phase of Liberty and stressed that it will build out over a period of years, due to the overall size of the property. He gave an overview of the area in context of the overall 3,000 acre area. He noted that the location is in center of the larger plan area, a bit to the east and detailed the existing road configuration. Mr Ross noted two important components of the Liberty plan being: 1) that the plan is based on a Stadium Town, which takes the lead from the Stadium and recognizes commercial area for entertainment, including sports oriented and specialty retail, which is a ground breaking type of commercial facility; and 2) noted the series of residential phases to the south and detailed the residential area consisting of a variety of neighborhoods and a range of housing styles. He explained that adjacent to the neighborhoods is a Lake with a considerable amount of frontage and could be a mixed use area with the potential for retail with offices or residential above. He emphasized that this is an important community center point and stressed how important the visual link to the lake is to the project. Mr. Ross made note of a nicely done main street facing the Lake, and explained that TMC is also proposing 36 holes of golf with 18 holes wrapping around the residential neighborhoods. He noted an open space area on the other side of the channel for a future golf course. He explained that in order to accomplish this plan, they need to make refinements to the Specific Plan and that application will consider the area designated, which is about 780 acres. He presented an exhibit of the existing land use plan vs. the amendment proposed. Mr. Ross highlighted important factors as illustrated on the exhibit and explained that the level of development is considerably less than that shown on the old plan. He noted that they have clustered the acres in a more compact manner with about 200 fewer acres of development, and over 215 acres of additional open space as proposed in the specific plan amendment, which was not part of the original plan. He further explained that the area highlighted shows the residential complex with mixed use at the center and the Lake as the focal point of the downtown area and various blocks of residential including R -1, R -2 and R -3, with no R4 development. He noted that the intensity has been reduced by the proposed Specific Plan Amendment and presented copies of the diagrams. He explained that the Specific Plan Amendment adds considerable open space for the golf courses and noted the environmental implications of the project. Mr. Ross explained that in the original Specific Plan there was a multi- species habitat corridor in the center of the plan and highlighted the area. He noted that they have relocated that corridor in a manner believed to be a better solution for providing habitat and species migration potential in the plan. He explained that the river is surrounded by open space and would be preserved in that context, and noted that previously it was surrounded by roads and other kinds of development. He stated that this is seen as a preferable solution environmentally and nothing outside the phase I area will change. He reiterated the area of the phase I portion. Mayor Pape questioned the proposed acreage of the lake. Mr. Ross stated that it was about 23 acres in size, not a pond; and will play a role in flood storage and hydrologic challenges. He also noted that the development areas are set above the 1265' level with respect to flood storage. Councilwoman Brinley questioned the depth. Mr. Ross stated that it was proposed to be 8 to 10 feet. Ms. Coffee stated that the proposed lake does not connect with the channel or the Lake and is considered an upland lake. Ms. Coffee noted Harlan-Glenn is the designer of that portion. Councilwoman Brinley questioned whether there would be boats on the lake. Ms. Coffee stated that it would below intensity such as paddle boats or small sailboats. Councilwoman Brinley asked if there would be jet skis. Ms. Coffee stated that there would not. Special Projects Director Molendyk noted that this is similar to Eastlake in Yorba Linda or Woodbridge in Irvine. Mr. Ross noted that the lake at Rancho Santa Margarita would be equivalent to the proposed lake in Liberty. He pointed out that the golf course will be open to the public. Councilwoman Brinley questioned whether swimming would be allowed in the lake. Mr. Ross stated that there would be no swimming. He offered to answer further questions about the plan. Mr. Ross addressed the schedule and presented the entitlement schedule, detailed the major milestones for construction, and pointed out that through an environmental analysis determined that the impacts are equal to, or less than the original impacts in the EIR. He detailed the specific dates for presentation and consideration; and stressed that this is a very aggressive schedule since they would like to commence grading in early April. Councilman Metze questioned consideration of other agency approvals. Mr. Ross clarified their intent to give a clear summary of the schedule. Councilwoman Brinley questioned schedules for other agencies. Mr. Ross indicated that there is a 7 or 8 page schedule. Special Projects Director Molendyk suggested a line by line review, to show that the bases were covered and stressed that there is a list of all of the things to be accomplished. Council requested a copy. Special Projects Director Molendyk stated that he would provide the documents to the City Manager's office for Council. He noted there is also a Hex 5 run that must be addressed. Councilman Metze clarified that he doesn't want people to think the other agencies are being ignored. Councilwoman Brinley suggested copies from staff should also go to the other agencies to facilitate them receiving the same information in a timely manner. Ms. Coffee indicated that the processes are underway and information has been shared. She noted their meetings with Water District, School District, Flood Control and Corps of Engineers. She explained that they have scheduled presentations with other agencies similar to this one and detailed PAGE FIVE - STUDY SESSION - DECEMBER 18, 1997, the processes running concurrently. She explained that the focus today is on the City's process, Councilman Metze noted that the press would not be there for all of those presentations. Councilwoman Brinley stated that the other entities should receive the same information as the City. Ms. Coffee concurred. She stated that she understands that the City needs to keep tabs on what must be done. She pointed out that the non -Phase I area in the Specific Plan is not changing in any way, and in addition, other than changes in the specific plan document, nothing else with respect to phase I changes. She frther noted that all of the mitigation, monitoring, and approvals will all remain the same. She stressed that there are only minor land use designation refinements and clarified that the San Jacinto River serves as a boundary for the golf course and will not be impacted by the golf course. She further stressed that the conservation designation will not be impacted. Councilman Alongi questioned why there was no presentation on how many students will be generated by the first phase and where the school will be located. Ms. Coffee stated that this does not change from the original Specific Plan, and noted that the Specific Plan requires a mitigation agreement with the School District prior to City's approval of the Tentative Map. Councilman Alongi questioned if there was a conclusion yet. Ms. Coffee stated that there was no conclusion at this time, however mitigation will be as set forth in the Specific Plan. Councilman Alongi questioned fire protection, and if it would be more than a 12 minute response. Mr. Ross stated that mitigation measures in the original documents would apply here and basically it will refer to those requirements in the Specific Plan. Councilman Alongi stressed the development of the first phase and asked what will happen to the fire station if the second phase does not proceed. He also questioned what happens with the School District if it does not proceed. Mr. Ross indicated that in conjunction with the Tentative Map process, the fire, police and other public agencies must stand up and confirm that they can and will provide service to address this development. He stressed that it would be addressed in detail and resolved as part of the approval process. Councilman Alongi questioned parks and stated that he knows what the specific plan calls for, however he does not see parks, beyond the golf course. He stressed that he has not seen mention of parks in the first phase. Mr. Ross stressed the original Specific Plan and the ratios by which public services including parks will be provided. Councilman Alongi stressed that there is a problem with the amendment addressing the parks and stressed that the total development of Eastlake was in the original plan, but now TMC is addressing the first phase alone. Ms. Coffee stated that it was set forth in the Specific Plan for residential designation which includes parks at a certain acreage amount. She noted that a park will be addressed at unit 100 or so in the residential bubbles. Special Projects Director Molendyk clarified that in the original Specific Plan there PAGE SIX - STUDY SESSION DECEMBER 18, 1997 was a school with a park adjacent to it in this phase, he also noted another conversation with regard to whether they would be public or private parks and that is yet to be decided. He stated that he believed that in the plan there is an elementary school and city park adjacent. Ms. Coffee stated that there is an allowance for a school site within the plan and the area is available and that is now being worked out. She stressed the variable of students based on what the School District wants. She stated that the project has the flexibility to accommodate the needs, however it will depend on the School District. Councilman Alongi stated that the most important issue at this time is the golf course and questioned the drainage of the course. He compared it to the golf course at Canyon Lake and noted the run off of reclaimed water which is used to irrigate the course which then runs off into the San Jacinto River and into Lake Elsinore. -He expressed concern with the reclaimed water runoff from this golf course and understands that they will be draining this to another wetland area, but expressed hopes that in their formulation it would never be into the San Jacinto River, which in turn would go into the Lake. Mr. Alan Swanson noted that the golf course will generally be below grade and the run off that hits this area will mostly be rainfall and a minor impact of run -off from the residential. He explained the flow from the golf course will be pumped into a water quality wetlands facility which goes through a biological purification process before it flows down the natural contours into the back basin area where the wetlands exist. He noted that they are not looking to see any of the pollutants going into the back basin from the golf course that occurs from rainfall. Councilman Alongi stated that he is not concerned about the back basin, however he is concerned about the area of the golf course that runs along the San Jacinto River. He asked if there was some type of protection that would prohibit the water on the golf course from entering the river. Ms. Coffee stated that the river will be protected from golf course run -off. She stressed that the golf course is lower than the river, and they will use the water quality wetland system to pump away from the river. Mr. Swanson indicated that there is no free drainage due to the golf course being below grade and it must be pumped to facilitate drainage. Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that she understood that EVMWD was not interest in looking at Liberty in phases but rather the mitigation for the entire project. She asked whether that had changed. Ms. Coffee indicated that they are looking at the entire development as specifically planned and looking at Phase I in the context of the entire plan. She explained that if they were putting together a sewer station which required a certain trunk line, then they would be required to address it in the context of the whole project. Mayor Pro Tem Kelley asked how the talks were going. Ms. Coffee stated that the talks had just begun. Mr. Scott concurred and reiterated that the water mitigation is based on entire Specific Plan, and stressed the requirements. Councilman Metze noted that the project can't move forward without EVMWD and School District approval. PAGE SEVEN -STUDY SESSION - DECEMBER 18, 1997 Mayor Pape questioned if it was more economical to build their own plant. Councilman Metze questioned how much of the 800 acres they own. Ms. Coffee stated that they have the right to acquire the entire area short a few small parcels. Councilman Metze clarified that they do not own the property yet. Ms. Coffee stated that they have the option to buy at a set price. Special Projects Director Molendyk noted that it is typical to wait for governmental approval prior to acquiring property. Councilwoman Brinley stressed that they would own the property before grading permits are approved. Mayor Pro Tem Kelley questioned the airport below Phase I and whether there have been talks with the owner of the airport. Ms. Coffee stated that she has not spoken with him prior to this morning and the relationship between Phase I and the airport had been addressed. She explained that there -are no entitlement or approval problems with that area. She noted that the land located closest to the airport is the recreational golf course and will provide a buffer zone. Larry Noggle, Manager of Skylark Airport, commented that he finds this project very overwhelming with all of the consultants. He noted that he has tried to meet with Mr. Olson to discuss the airport and has been very disgusted with Mr. Olson and TMC because no phone calls have been returned in regards to the placement of the airport. He explained that he was told by Todd Olson a year ago that they would be glad to work with him on a mutually agreed upon site, however what has been indicated right now, is if this project is approved the airport is dead. He stressed the need to stop this project and find out if the airport is part of the Master Plan. He further stressed that as it is now, the airport can't happen and skydiving is gone. Councilman Metze inquired why this was so. Ms. Coffee indicated the airport and location are as set by the 1993 Specific Plan, and it has not changed. Mr. Noggle stressed once there are amendments it is a whole new situation. He explained that he spoke with Mr. Olson regarding buffering the airport with a golf course, but currently the airport has been pigeonholed in a corner. Councilwoman Brinley suggested setting a meeting be set with Mr. Olson and Ms. Coffee. Ms. Coffee concurred. Mr. Noggle stressed that the airport needs to stay about where it is. Mayor Pape questioned the location of the airport. Mr. Noggle clarified. Ms. Coffee noted that in later phases there might be an amendment for moving the airport. Mr. Noggle indicated that he was told that the airport had to move because it would go over a four star hotel. He asked that he be able to negotiate on everything south of a designated road to resolve his problem. Councilwoman Brinley stressed that a meeting needed to be held with Ms. Coffee and the other people involved. Mr. Noggle stressed that there has been no return phone calls in the last year from TMC and he is very frustrated. Councilman Alongi stressed that it is imperative to know where they are with all the other agencies and he does not want to see City staff proceed and have it held up by another agency. He commented that he concurred that the airport is an important issue and is very concerned with the Water District. PAGE EIGHT - STUDY SESSION - DECEMBER 18,,1997 Mayor Pape noted that Special Projects Director Molendyk needs to keep the City notified of the status. Councilman Metze clarified that the School District and Water District are not the City's problem. Councilman Alongi concurred. Special Projects Director Molendyk stated that in answer to the Mayor's comment, the purpose of this meeting is to give TMC a sense of what concerns the Council and to allow them the opportunity to answer any questions that Council might have to gain a comfort level. He commented that Mr. Noggle's comments will be passed on and noted that he had a meeting with the airport about a year ago. He stated that he knows Mr. Olson is aware of the concerns, but he will make sure the it is put on list of things to do. Special Projects Director Molendyk noted that Ms. Coffee is sensitive to where they are with the other agencies. He stated that these things are being taken care of, and they cannot get a grading plan or map approval without the other approvals. He further noted the open space and golf course which is a better plan than previously presented. Councilwoman Brinley stressed that Council is past the talking stage and is now into the process and they have to meet with other agencies to move forward. Special Projects Director Molendyk stated that if Council so desires he would be glad to call Dr. Long or General Manager Hoagland in the future. Councilman Metze would like to be apprised on Mr. Noggle's concerns which is more of a concern than what is occurring in the other agencies at this point. Mayor Pape noted generally there are problems with the Water District. Special Projects Director Molendyk noted it is his intent to be sensitive to concerns of the Council. Councilman Metze questioned the cost of fees for staff. Ms. Coffee stated that they are paying for staff time on this project. City Manager Watenpaugh reassured the Council that they will be kept apprised of the activity on this project. Special Projects Director Molendyk stressed that as a City representative he met with TMC this week to try and go over important issues, and the meeting today with Council is to note specific concerns that need to be addressed. He explained that the only new issue that TMC has not discussed with him is the airport issue and he will talk to Mr. Olson about this matter. Councilman Metze noted that is the only issue the City can directly address. Special Projects Director Molendyk stressed that it is on his check list to communicate with the Water District, and other agencies, also there has been discussion regarding this plan for quite some time and the purpose of this meeting was to show what TMC is proposing and provide the opportunity to address new questions. Mayor Pro Tem Kelley noted that the new concept is much more desirable than the old concept and will be very unique and attractive with all the components; however she wants to be sure all parties are happy. PAGE NINE - STUDY SESSION - DECEMBER 18, 1997 Councilman Metze noted the old town style planning which has been mentioned frequently (neo- traditional). Special Projects Director Molendyk noted that this plan will offer more safety and compatibility and give more flexibility for the airport due to the buffer zone. Ms. Coffee stressed that this presentation was geared for the upcoming amendment and future presentations will be sensitive to providing updates on other agencies. She noted that the airport caught them by surprise because it is not in Phase I, but explained that this plan is more conducive to where the airport exists now. She stressed the open space buffer of the golf course and noted that they will be talking with Mr. Noggle about the airport. She finther noted that with all the stated concerns in mind, they will provide updates at future presentations. Councilman Alongi questioned the density per acre. Ms. Coffee stated that it is set by the Specific Plan and is not going to change. Councilwoman Brinley noted the R -1, R -2 and R -3 breakdowns and questioned the densities. Mr. Ross advised that the R -2 average is just under 8 units per acre; the R -1 average density is just over 3 units per acre and the R -3, Multi - Family is an average of 16.5 units of garden style apartments. Commissioner Sands noted the reduced development plans with the original number of homes in Phase I. Mr. Ross explained that the original plan had nearly 3,000 homes, while the current proposed dwelling unit count for this phase is approximately 1,800 homes. Mayor Pape noted that all of the concerns seem to have been addressed and looked forward to the start of grading and noted he would like to see it done in a timely manner. 1 1 I.Q 10 THE CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION ADJOURNED AT 11:36 A.M. X TE.ST: CITY CLERK W. PAVE, MAYOR