HomeMy WebLinkAbout12-18-1997- City Council Study SessionMINUTES
CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE
130 SOUTH MAIN STREET
LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA
CONFERENCE ROOM
DECEMBER 18, 1997
CALL TO ORDER
The Study Session was called to order by Mayor Pape at 10:15 a.m.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by City Manager Watenpaugh.
ROLL CALL
PRESENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: ALONGI, BRINLEY,
KELLEY, METZE, PAPE
ABSENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: NONE
Also present were: City Manager Watenpaugh, City Attorney Leibold,
Assistant to the City Manager Best, City Engineer O'Donnell, Special Projects
Director Molendyk, Public Services Director Sapp, Building and Safety
Manager Russell, Planning Commissioner Schiffner, Planning Commissioner
Sands, Senior Planner Morita, Senior Planner Villa, and City Clerk Kasad.
' N -'] N WKIMMIXURN, TR 049 11 VA-DJ
None.
1. ilndate on TMC Liberty Project. (F:150.2)
Mayor Pape noted the topic to be discussed.
City Manager Watenpaugh introduced Special Projects Director Molendyk
who has been working with TMC's staff.
Special Projects Director Molendyk noted that TMC has been working in the
floodplain area for quite a while and changed the concept in the last few
months from the traditional approach to the new concept called "Liberty". He
further noted that a constant question that has been asked is when the project
is going to start, and the purpose of this meeting is to discuss TMC's Phase I
project which is planned to start in spring of 1998. Special Projects Director
Molendyk noted the very qualified consultant team that TMC has put together
who are working to begin bulk grading in March of this year.
PAGE TWO - STUDY SESSION - DECEMBER 18, 1"7
He explained that the purpose of this meeting is to try and save a step and
hasten the project along. He reminded the people present that the project is in
RDA Project Area III, and noted the
explained that consultants present at this meeting. He
TMC wants to clarify the steps for the Council and answer any
questions, and reiterated TMC's intent to start in spring u 1998. l a a He
introduced Mary Lynn Coffee, General Counsel for TMC. Ms. Coffee
explained that meetings were held in the fall to discuss the vision for
"Liberty" as a project and specifically Phase I. She commented on Cooper -
Robertson, Master Architects and their exciting vision regarding the
recreation of the "American Home Town" which is surrounded by open space
and next to "Stadium Town" which is anchored by the Stadium. She noted
that the theme and vision for the project is in place and explained that it is
time to proceed with the project. She made note that they are the team
responsible for getting the necessary entitlements and approvals for the first
Phase and their attempt to place the project on an accelerated schedule. She
explained that TMC's goal is to begin ground work in the spring, with models
Open by July 4, 1999. Ms. Coffee explained the approvals necessary for the
project, which is located in the back basin and noted that it is a long list, as
stated in the 1993 Eastlake Specific Plan, which includes the Army Corps of
Engineers, the Flood Control Agency, the City and EWA She
emphasized the Phase I Area on an exhibit map, and stressed the approvals
necessary. She explained that the team assures them that they know what
approvals are necessary and they will get them in place on time. She further
noted that they will concurrently seek approvals from other agencies. Ms.
Coffee explained that the City will be involved in the Specific Plan
Amendment, Grading Plan approvals,, and Tentative Map approvals, etc. She
commented that the first logical approval is the Specific Plan Amendment and
noted that there are some refinements needed under the current plan to assure
that it is consistent with the constructed project. She explained that they have
reduced some intensity and density on the residential and commercial
Portions. She fiuther noted that the project as proposed, will have less
environmental impacts then that of the 1993 Specific Plan Amendment She
introduced the entire team present for this meeting.
Steve Ross, representing the Planning Center, explained that he would like to
spend some time reestablishing familiarity with the Liberty project location,
size and magnitude; followed by focusing on the proposed first Phase plan as
well as reviewing the schedule anticipated for the project. He noted that this
is intended as a heads up meeting with the intent to facilitate an accelerated
schedule and will help them to move quickly for approvals. He presented
slides to familiarize Council and the audience with the project, which
included an aerial photo of the Lake, the Liberty property, the Airport and I-
15. He stressed the size and magnitude of the property. Mr. Ross stated that
the advantage in planning this property is the opportunity to complete the end
of the Lake. Mr'. Ross presented a second slide of an aerial straight down on
the property and relationship to existing developments and. detailed the size of
the property, being 2 -1/2 miles across and compared the property to central
pa�lcist�Ie� Yc� aad `ice Leh; SaiatalBeaeh a+orl
PAGE THREE - STUDY SESSION DECEMBER 18, 1997
Beach, showing the property to be significant in size and scale. He also
compared Eastlake/Liberty project in size to the City of Pasadena which
shows the significance of the area. Mr. Ross'presented a slide of the First
Phase of Liberty and stressed that it will build out over a period of years, due
to the overall size of the property. He gave an overview of the area in context
of the overall 3,000 acre area. He noted that the location is in center of the
larger plan area, a bit to the east and detailed the existing road configuration.
Mr Ross noted two important components of the Liberty plan being: 1) that
the plan is based on a Stadium Town, which takes the lead from the Stadium
and recognizes commercial area for entertainment, including sports oriented
and specialty retail, which is a ground breaking type of commercial facility;
and 2) noted the series of residential phases to the south and detailed the
residential area consisting of a variety of neighborhoods and a range of
housing styles. He explained that adjacent to the neighborhoods is a Lake
with a considerable amount of frontage and could be a mixed use area with
the potential for retail with offices or residential above. He emphasized that
this is an important community center point and stressed how important the
visual link to the lake is to the project. Mr. Ross made note of a nicely done
main street facing the Lake, and explained that TMC is also proposing 36
holes of golf with 18 holes wrapping around the residential neighborhoods.
He noted an open space area on the other side of the channel for a future golf
course. He explained that in order to accomplish this plan, they need to make
refinements to the Specific Plan and that application will consider the area
designated, which is about 780 acres. He presented an exhibit of the existing
land use plan vs. the amendment proposed. Mr. Ross highlighted important
factors as illustrated on the exhibit and explained that the level of
development is considerably less than that shown on the old plan. He noted
that they have clustered the acres in a more compact manner with about 200
fewer acres of development, and over 215 acres of additional open space as
proposed in the specific plan amendment, which was not part of the original
plan. He further explained that the area highlighted shows the residential
complex with mixed use at the center and the Lake as the focal point of the
downtown area and various blocks of residential including R -1, R -2 and R -3,
with no R4 development. He noted that the intensity has been reduced by
the proposed Specific Plan Amendment and presented copies of the diagrams.
He explained that the Specific Plan Amendment adds considerable open
space for the golf courses and noted the environmental implications of the
project. Mr. Ross explained that in the original Specific Plan there was a
multi- species habitat corridor in the center of the plan and highlighted the
area. He noted that they have relocated that corridor in a manner believed to
be a better solution for providing habitat and species migration potential in
the plan. He explained that the river is surrounded by open space and would
be preserved in that context, and noted that previously it was surrounded by
roads and other kinds of development. He stated that this is seen as a
preferable solution environmentally and nothing outside the phase I area will
change. He reiterated the area of the phase I portion.
Mayor Pape questioned the proposed acreage of the lake. Mr. Ross stated
that it was about 23 acres in size, not a pond; and will play a role in flood
storage and hydrologic challenges. He also noted that the development areas
are set above the 1265' level with respect to flood storage.
Councilwoman Brinley questioned the depth. Mr. Ross stated that it was
proposed to be 8 to 10 feet. Ms. Coffee stated that the proposed lake does
not connect with the channel or the Lake and is considered an upland lake.
Ms. Coffee noted Harlan-Glenn is the designer of that portion.
Councilwoman Brinley questioned whether there would be boats on the lake.
Ms. Coffee stated that it would below intensity such as paddle boats or small
sailboats. Councilwoman Brinley asked if there would be jet skis. Ms.
Coffee stated that there would not. Special Projects Director Molendyk
noted that this is similar to Eastlake in Yorba Linda or Woodbridge in Irvine.
Mr. Ross noted that the lake at Rancho Santa Margarita would be equivalent
to the proposed lake in Liberty. He pointed out that the golf course will be
open to the public. Councilwoman Brinley questioned whether swimming
would be allowed in the lake. Mr. Ross stated that there would be no
swimming. He offered to answer further questions about the plan.
Mr. Ross addressed the schedule and presented the entitlement schedule,
detailed the major milestones for construction, and pointed out that through
an environmental analysis determined that the impacts are equal to, or less
than the original impacts in the EIR. He detailed the specific dates for
presentation and consideration; and stressed that this is a very aggressive
schedule since they would like to commence grading in early April.
Councilman Metze questioned consideration of other agency approvals. Mr.
Ross clarified their intent to give a clear summary of the schedule.
Councilwoman Brinley questioned schedules for other agencies. Mr. Ross
indicated that there is a 7 or 8 page schedule.
Special Projects Director Molendyk suggested a line by line review, to show
that the bases were covered and stressed that there is a list of all of the things
to be accomplished. Council requested a copy. Special Projects Director
Molendyk stated that he would provide the documents to the City Manager's
office for Council. He noted there is also a Hex 5 run that must be addressed.
Councilman Metze clarified that he doesn't want people to think the other
agencies are being ignored. Councilwoman Brinley suggested copies from
staff should also go to the other agencies to facilitate them receiving the same
information in a timely manner.
Ms. Coffee indicated that the processes are underway and information has
been shared. She noted their meetings with Water District, School District,
Flood Control and Corps of Engineers. She explained that they have
scheduled presentations with other agencies similar to this one and detailed
PAGE FIVE - STUDY SESSION - DECEMBER 18, 1997,
the processes running concurrently. She explained that the focus today is on
the City's process, Councilman Metze noted that the press would not be there
for all of those presentations. Councilwoman Brinley stated that the other
entities should receive the same information as the City. Ms. Coffee
concurred. She stated that she understands that the City needs to keep tabs
on what must be done. She pointed out that the non -Phase I area in the
Specific Plan is not changing in any way, and in addition, other than changes
in the specific plan document, nothing else with respect to phase I changes.
She frther noted that all of the mitigation, monitoring, and approvals will all
remain the same. She stressed that there are only minor land use designation
refinements and clarified that the San Jacinto River serves as a boundary for
the golf course and will not be impacted by the golf course. She further
stressed that the conservation designation will not be impacted.
Councilman Alongi questioned why there was no presentation on how many
students will be generated by the first phase and where the school will be
located. Ms. Coffee stated that this does not change from the original
Specific Plan, and noted that the Specific Plan requires a mitigation
agreement with the School District prior to City's approval of the Tentative
Map. Councilman Alongi questioned if there was a conclusion yet. Ms.
Coffee stated that there was no conclusion at this time, however mitigation
will be as set forth in the Specific Plan. Councilman Alongi questioned fire
protection, and if it would be more than a 12 minute response. Mr. Ross
stated that mitigation measures in the original documents would apply here
and basically it will refer to those requirements in the Specific Plan.
Councilman Alongi stressed the development of the first phase and asked
what will happen to the fire station if the second phase does not proceed. He
also questioned what happens with the School District if it does not proceed.
Mr. Ross indicated that in conjunction with the Tentative Map process, the
fire, police and other public agencies must stand up and confirm that they can
and will provide service to address this development. He stressed that it
would be addressed in detail and resolved as part of the approval process.
Councilman Alongi questioned parks and stated that he knows what the
specific plan calls for, however he does not see parks, beyond the golf course.
He stressed that he has not seen mention of parks in the first phase. Mr. Ross
stressed the original Specific Plan and the ratios by which public services
including parks will be provided.
Councilman Alongi stressed that there is a problem with the amendment
addressing the parks and stressed that the total development of Eastlake was
in the original plan, but now TMC is addressing the first phase alone. Ms.
Coffee stated that it was set forth in the Specific Plan for residential
designation which includes parks at a certain acreage amount. She noted that
a park will be addressed at unit 100 or so in the residential bubbles. Special
Projects Director Molendyk clarified that in the original Specific Plan there
PAGE SIX - STUDY SESSION DECEMBER 18, 1997
was a school with a park adjacent to it in this phase, he also noted another
conversation with regard to whether they would be public or private parks
and that is yet to be decided. He stated that he believed that in the plan there
is an elementary school and city park adjacent. Ms. Coffee stated that there
is an allowance for a school site within the plan and the area is available and
that is now being worked out. She stressed the variable of students based on
what the School District wants. She stated that the project has the flexibility
to accommodate the needs, however it will depend on the School District.
Councilman Alongi stated that the most important issue at this time is the golf
course and questioned the drainage of the course. He compared it to the golf
course at Canyon Lake and noted the run off of reclaimed water which is
used to irrigate the course which then runs off into the San Jacinto River and
into Lake Elsinore. -He expressed concern with the reclaimed water runoff
from this golf course and understands that they will be draining this to another
wetland area, but expressed hopes that in their formulation it would never be
into the San Jacinto River, which in turn would go into the Lake.
Mr. Alan Swanson noted that the golf course will generally be below grade
and the run off that hits this area will mostly be rainfall and a minor impact of
run -off from the residential. He explained the flow from the golf course will
be pumped into a water quality wetlands facility which goes through a
biological purification process before it flows down the natural contours into
the back basin area where the wetlands exist. He noted that they are not
looking to see any of the pollutants going into the back basin from the golf
course that occurs from rainfall. Councilman Alongi stated that he is not
concerned about the back basin, however he is concerned about the area of
the golf course that runs along the San Jacinto River. He asked if there was
some type of protection that would prohibit the water on the golf course from
entering the river. Ms. Coffee stated that the river will be protected from golf
course run -off. She stressed that the golf course is lower than the river, and
they will use the water quality wetland system to pump away from the river.
Mr. Swanson indicated that there is no free drainage due to the golf course
being below grade and it must be pumped to facilitate drainage.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that she understood that EVMWD was not
interest in looking at Liberty in phases but rather the mitigation for the entire
project. She asked whether that had changed. Ms. Coffee indicated that they
are looking at the entire development as specifically planned and looking at
Phase I in the context of the entire plan. She explained that if they were
putting together a sewer station which required a certain trunk line, then they
would be required to address it in the context of the whole project. Mayor
Pro Tem Kelley asked how the talks were going. Ms. Coffee stated that the
talks had just begun. Mr. Scott concurred and reiterated that the water
mitigation is based on entire Specific Plan, and stressed the requirements.
Councilman Metze noted that the project can't move forward without
EVMWD and School District approval.
PAGE SEVEN -STUDY SESSION - DECEMBER 18, 1997
Mayor Pape questioned if it was more economical to build their own plant.
Councilman Metze questioned how much of the 800 acres they own. Ms.
Coffee stated that they have the right to acquire the entire area short a few
small parcels. Councilman Metze clarified that they do not own the property
yet. Ms. Coffee stated that they have the option to buy at a set price. Special
Projects Director Molendyk noted that it is typical to wait for governmental
approval prior to acquiring property. Councilwoman Brinley stressed that
they would own the property before grading permits are approved.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley questioned the airport below Phase I and whether
there have been talks with the owner of the airport. Ms. Coffee stated that
she has not spoken with him prior to this morning and the relationship
between Phase I and the airport had been addressed. She explained that there
-are no entitlement or approval problems with that area. She noted that the
land located closest to the airport is the recreational golf course and will
provide a buffer zone.
Larry Noggle, Manager of Skylark Airport, commented that he finds this
project very overwhelming with all of the consultants. He noted that he has
tried to meet with Mr. Olson to discuss the airport and has been very
disgusted with Mr. Olson and TMC because no phone calls have been
returned in regards to the placement of the airport. He explained that he was
told by Todd Olson a year ago that they would be glad to work with him on a
mutually agreed upon site, however what has been indicated right now, is if
this project is approved the airport is dead. He stressed the need to stop this
project and find out if the airport is part of the Master Plan. He further
stressed that as it is now, the airport can't happen and skydiving is gone.
Councilman Metze inquired why this was so. Ms. Coffee indicated the
airport and location are as set by the 1993 Specific Plan, and it has not
changed. Mr. Noggle stressed once there are amendments it is a whole new
situation. He explained that he spoke with Mr. Olson regarding buffering the
airport with a golf course, but currently the airport has been pigeonholed in a
corner. Councilwoman Brinley suggested setting a meeting be set with Mr.
Olson and Ms. Coffee. Ms. Coffee concurred. Mr. Noggle stressed that the
airport needs to stay about where it is. Mayor Pape questioned the location
of the airport. Mr. Noggle clarified. Ms. Coffee noted that in later phases
there might be an amendment for moving the airport. Mr. Noggle indicated
that he was told that the airport had to move because it would go over a four
star hotel. He asked that he be able to negotiate on everything south of a
designated road to resolve his problem. Councilwoman Brinley stressed that
a meeting needed to be held with Ms. Coffee and the other people involved.
Mr. Noggle stressed that there has been no return phone calls in the last year
from TMC and he is very frustrated.
Councilman Alongi stressed that it is imperative to know where they are with
all the other agencies and he does not want to see City staff proceed and have
it held up by another agency. He commented that he concurred that the
airport is an important issue and is very concerned with the Water District.
PAGE EIGHT - STUDY SESSION - DECEMBER 18,,1997
Mayor Pape noted that Special Projects Director Molendyk needs to keep the
City notified of the status.
Councilman Metze clarified that the School District and Water District are
not the City's problem. Councilman Alongi concurred.
Special Projects Director Molendyk stated that in answer to the Mayor's
comment, the purpose of this meeting is to give TMC a sense of what
concerns the Council and to allow them the opportunity to answer any
questions that Council might have to gain a comfort level. He commented
that Mr. Noggle's comments will be passed on and noted that he had a
meeting with the airport about a year ago. He stated that he knows Mr. Olson
is aware of the concerns, but he will make sure the it is put on list of things to
do. Special Projects Director Molendyk noted that Ms. Coffee is sensitive to
where they are with the other agencies. He stated that these things are being
taken care of, and they cannot get a grading plan or map approval without the
other approvals. He further noted the open space and golf course which is a
better plan than previously presented. Councilwoman Brinley stressed that
Council is past the talking stage and is now into the process and they have to
meet with other agencies to move forward.
Special Projects Director Molendyk stated that if Council so desires he would
be glad to call Dr. Long or General Manager Hoagland in the future.
Councilman Metze would like to be apprised on Mr. Noggle's concerns which
is more of a concern than what is occurring in the other agencies at this point.
Mayor Pape noted generally there are problems with the Water District.
Special Projects Director Molendyk noted it is his intent to be sensitive to
concerns of the Council. Councilman Metze questioned the cost of fees for
staff. Ms. Coffee stated that they are paying for staff time on this project.
City Manager Watenpaugh reassured the Council that they will be kept
apprised of the activity on this project. Special Projects Director Molendyk
stressed that as a City representative he met with TMC this week to try and
go over important issues, and the meeting today with Council is to note
specific concerns that need to be addressed. He explained that the only new
issue that TMC has not discussed with him is the airport issue and he will talk
to Mr. Olson about this matter. Councilman Metze noted that is the only
issue the City can directly address. Special Projects Director Molendyk
stressed that it is on his check list to communicate with the Water District,
and other agencies, also there has been discussion regarding this plan for
quite some time and the purpose of this meeting was to show what TMC is
proposing and provide the opportunity to address new questions.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley noted that the new concept is much more desirable
than the old concept and will be very unique and attractive with all the
components; however she wants to be sure all parties are happy.
PAGE NINE - STUDY SESSION - DECEMBER 18, 1997
Councilman Metze noted the old town style planning which has been
mentioned frequently (neo- traditional). Special Projects Director Molendyk
noted that this plan will offer more safety and compatibility and give more
flexibility for the airport due to the buffer zone. Ms. Coffee stressed that this
presentation was geared for the upcoming amendment and future
presentations will be sensitive to providing updates on other agencies. She
noted that the airport caught them by surprise because it is not in Phase I, but
explained that this plan is more conducive to where the airport exists now.
She stressed the open space buffer of the golf course and noted that they will
be talking with Mr. Noggle about the airport. She finther noted that with all
the stated concerns in mind, they will provide updates at future presentations.
Councilman Alongi questioned the density per acre. Ms. Coffee stated that it
is set by the Specific Plan and is not going to change. Councilwoman Brinley
noted the R -1, R -2 and R -3 breakdowns and questioned the densities. Mr.
Ross advised that the R -2 average is just under 8 units per acre; the R -1
average density is just over 3 units per acre and the R -3, Multi - Family is an
average of 16.5 units of garden style apartments. Commissioner Sands noted
the reduced development plans with the original number of homes in Phase I.
Mr. Ross explained that the original plan had nearly 3,000 homes, while the
current proposed dwelling unit count for this phase is approximately 1,800
homes.
Mayor Pape noted that all of the concerns seem to have been addressed and
looked forward to the start of grading and noted he would like to see it done
in a timely manner.
1 1 I.Q 10
THE CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION ADJOURNED AT 11:36 A.M.
X TE.ST:
CITY CLERK
W. PAVE, MAYOR