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HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-05-1997 Joint City Council/PC Study SessionMINUTES JOINT CITY COUNCIL/PLANNING COMMISSION STUDY SESSION CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE 130 SOUTH MAIN STREET LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA TUESDAY, AUGUST 5, 1997 re. 1 M K�Z� The Joint Study Session was called to order by Mayor Pape at 3:05 p.m. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Planning Commission Chairman Wilsey. ROLL CALL PRESENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: ABSENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: ALONGI, KELLEY, PAPE, BRINLEY, METZE (Councilman Metze arrived at 3:15 p.m.) BARNES, SANDS, WILSEY NONE MATTHIES, SCHIFFNER, Also present were: City Manager Watenpaugh, Special Projects Director Molendyk, Community Development Director Leslie, Public Works Manager Payne, and City Clerk Kasad. PUBLIC COMMENTS - AGENDIZED ITEMS A request was received to address Item Number 2 and deferred to that discussion. DISCUSSION ITEMS U 1. WRCOG Solid Waste Management Program & District. (F:163. 1)(X:108.13) City Manager Watenpaugh introduced Joyce Marshall. Joyce Marshall, representing WRCOG, noted that this discussion was initiated in the early 90's when compliance with AB939 and its unfunded mandates became an issue. She explained the original proposals for material recovery PAGE TWO - STUDY SESSION MINUTES - AUGUST 5, 1997 facilities, discussion of forming a sanitation district, etc. She noted that there was specific concern with issues such as control over tipping fees, assessment of District fees on property taxes, the amount of funding required, etc. She highlighted a cooperative study which sought to identify the amount of unfunded liability, and advised that policies were established to set aside reserves to cover the costs. She noted that there is now serious concern with some cities who have raised the issue of importation fees on waste, as they are being impacted by trash coming through communities with no offset for the impact on their roads and communities. She advised that the WRCOG Executive Committee directed preparation of the packets which were provided with a summary of the pros and cons. She indicated that the pros outweigh the cons and detailed factors from each perspective. COUNCILMAN METZE ARRIVED AT 3:15 P.M. She advised that each of the WRCOG cities has been found to be in compliance with reaching the goals for diversion of waste. She noted the impacts on existing and future landfills and the current inequity between unincorporated areas and incorporated cities. City Manager Watenpaugh noted that the matter will come back to the WRCOG board in the future and has come up as to how the Board might be restructured. He suggested the Council review the report so a response can go to WRCOG. Mayor Pape questioned the stance taken by other cities. Ms. Marshall indicated that all of the cities who have reviewed the proposal have supported it, with the exception of Moreno Valley who reviewed the proposal but had questions on liability which need to be followed up on. Riverside and Banning have taken a wait and see attitude, and a number of other cities have not yet considered the issue due to budget issues. Mayor Pape noted that Norco has been a leader in this effort. Ms. Marshall indicated that is probably due to the fact that the Mayor has served on the subcommittee of the executive committee and understands the issues in a lot more depth. Councilman Alongi questioned existing contracts for trash and what this issue has to do with the City. Ms. Marshall indicated that it is the issue of liability, which is only an issue if one of the landfills becomes a superfund cleanup; at that point there is liability for the generator, the operator and the hauler. Councilman Alongi stressed that the City has no say as to where the hauler takes the trash. Ms. Marshall indicated that most contracts include that information. Mr. Alongi indicated that our contract does not include that information and questioned the City liability and appropriate concerns. Ms. Marshall clarified the liability as a "generator" of waste. . Councilman Metze questioned how many cities have been held liable. Ms. Marshall indicated that no cities have been held liable in Riverside County; and clarified the State and Federal level mandates. PAGE THREE - STUDY SESSION MINUTES - AUGUST 5, 1997 Councilman Alongi questioned the down side. Ms. Marshall indicated that other jurisdictions could make the decision for the City. City Manager Watenpaugh questioned the mandate for 1994 to reevaluate future participation in two years. Ms. Marshall clarified the past actions and the two year review period which is underway. Councilman Alongi questioned what would happen if Eagle Mountain was not approved. Ms. Marshall indicated that it would be difficult to say, as it is a private landfill, and noted that San Bernardino County has decided to privatize all of their landfills. She further noted the impact of that action on the calculation of the tipping fee. Councilman Alongi questioned the responsibility of CR & R on this matter. City Manager Watenpaugh indicated that their issues are the generation of trash and CR & R is only obligated to carry it away. Planning Commissioner Barnes noted the liability to dispose of the waste properly. City Manager Watenpaugh noted that the City would have a say in the amount of tipping fees. Councilman Alongi noted that it is difficult to believe that the Mayors of other cities would agree to raise the fees. Councilman Metze questioned why the haulers are not included in this discussion. Ms. Marshall indicated that a hauler cannot annex into the District, but they are very much aware of the discussions. Mayor Pro Tern Kelley questioned the project annexation fees. Ms. Marshall indicated that the fees are the fair share of $3,100 in application costs, survey fees, environmental assessment fee. Mayor Pape clarified the need for a concerted effort. Ms. Marshall confirmed. Commissioner Barnes questioned the reference to the Board of Supervisors and why the Board would not be made up of representatives of the governing bodies. Ms. Marshall indicated that it could be done that way, but that would mean a 15 member board. Mayor Pro Tern Kelley questioned the shortfall of funds and whether the City would become responsible for those fees. Ms. Marshall indicated that it would most likely impact the tipping fees. Mayor Pape questioned the information available to estimate the costs to close down a facility when necessary. Ms. Marshall that it would generally be possible to get a very good perspective. Mayor Pape questioned if there was a target date, and whether the fees could go down. Ms. Marshall indicated that they could go down, but it could have a negative impact. Councilman Alongi noted that the trash collectors would be the best informed to make determinations on tipping fees. Ms. Marshall noted comments by Mr. Fahrion of CR & R at the Canyon Lake City Council discussion of this topic. 4 1 ;,y PAGE FOUR - STUDY SESSION MINUTES - AUGUST 5, 1997, . Councilman Metze questioned whether the liability of hauler would be reduced by City annexations to the District. Ms. Marshall clarified the potential of liabilities, and noted that the liability for residents taking waste to the landfill could fall back on the City. Mayor Pro Tem Kelley questioned how many cities have annexed to the District. Ms. Marshall indicated that none have yet, but listed the cities which have taken a position of support. Mayor Pape suggested that there is not much down side to this action. Councilman Alongi inquired if there would be a meeting with the Mayors to discuss the issue further. Ms. Marshall indicated that the WRCOG Executive Committee would be discussing the issue further. Mrs. Kelley indicated that the Executive Board has not yet discussed this item. City Manager Watenpaugh indicated that most of the City Managers have met and are in support of the proposal. Ms. Marshall indicated that the Executive committee has reviewed the proposal extensively. Mrs. Kelley indicated that no decision has been made, but it has been discussed. Mr. Watenpaugh indicated that the Board is looking for input from the cities, and it appears that more are leaning toward joining than not. Ms. Marshall stressed that WRCOG is not pushing this issue, but presenting the information. Councilman Alongi stressed that he wants input from CR & R and legal counsel. Commissioner Sands questioned the feeling of the CVAG cities. Ms. Marshall indicated that they don't see a need to participate at this time, because they will only be dealing with it on a contractual basis. Councilman Alongi stressed that he would like input from the new City Attorney. City Manager Watenpaugh questioned the Council's direction for bringing information forward. Councilman Alongi indicated that he would still like information from CR & R, to find out what they are liable for; as well as a letter from the City Attorney. 2. Alberhill -Lake Elsinore Snorts and Entertainment Complex. (F:131.1)(X:150.2) City Manager Watenpaugh introduced the project and noted the past general discussions. He advised that there are different partners involved now, and noted that this is one of the 5 or 6 projects being handled by Mr. Molendyk during the transition. Mr. Molendyk detailed the location of the site and noted that it involves about 1,000 acres. He pointed out an aerial photograph of the location and noted a 1986 study completed by Riverside County. He noted that this location was one of the properties considered at that time, but they could not reach an agreement with the existing property owners. He explained that the last discussion of this project was on May 18, 1995, and in the meantime the TT Group has taken over this project. He advised that many of the environmental issues have been reviewed and the applicant would like to proceed to the Planning Commission on August 20th and the City Council on PAGE FIVE - STUDY SESSION MINUTES - AUGUST 5,.1997 September 9th. He explained that they are seeking a development agreement with the City to allow them to proceed with a real race date schedule. Tony Polo, Avalon Consultants, detailed the project boundaries. Mayor Pape noted that it is a pretty mountainous area. City Manager Molendyk noted the scarring on the mountain, and Mayor Pape concurred that right now it is wasteland. Mr. Polo noted the long history of mining back to early 1900's with coal, and pointed out the location of strip mining operations. He noted the areas which were cleared in the late 1980's as a preventative measure; and a recently burned area. He advised that in 1985 before the Riverside International Raceway was closed, Riverside county wanted to find a replacement site. He noted that there was a major feasibility study of all of Southern California, which looked at four locations in detail; and concluded that Alberhill was the best site. He indicated that the property owners, the Biddle Family, could not put together a project. He further indicated that Brighton Homes did a lot of work on a project at this location, and had an adopted project at that time. He noted the expense of the prior proposed project; and indicated that this group started the process over two years ago and indicated that the reason the new proposed project works is the reduced structural coverage, which results in the mitigation costs being greatly reduced. He presented the proposed site plan and noted that the percentage of coverage is fractional. He noted interest which has been expressed by driving schools. He pointed out the location of the 15,000 seat amphitheater which is modeled after the Hollywood Bowl. He detailed the racing components of the project and noted the section which were prepared with regard to the mountainous sections of the site. He stressed the significant topographical relief of the site. He noted the configurations of buffer areas to the raceway areas; and explained the ability to visually follow a full road course event. He advised that there would be limited changes to the skyline, and noted that it would be difficult to save the major hills on the site after the past mining operations. He detailed the proposed golf course, country„ club, tennis courts, condominiums, etc. He noted that they would hope that the condos would be purchased by companies for marketing purposes. He advised that there will be up to 12 major events under the approved studies, and noted efforts to minimize the impacts of noise and traffic. He finther advised that the marketing study specifies a starting year crowd of 35,000 at the largest event, with a maximum of 65,000 at maturity. Special Project Director Molendyk commented on the past support of this concept; and noted that there will be all right hand turns into this facility, so the rest of the community is not as heavily impacted. Mr. Polo detailed the traffic plan with six and eight lane roads; and noted the differences between this project and the approved Brighton Homes project which would have generated 53,000 additional trips. He explained that the goal of this project was to limit commercial, industrial and residential factors, reducing the trips to about 65 %. He advised that Caltrans has estimated that the traffic will be 70 % from the L.A. Basin, 25% from San Diego and 5% over the Ortega Highway. He advised that there will be highway directional signage to have most traffic bypass Lake Street and use Nichols road. Mr. Molendyk noted that the project site will accommodate parking for about, PAGE SIX - STUDY SESSION MINUTES - AUGUST 5,.1997 1 9, 0000 vehicles. Mr. Polo fuuther detailed the traffic patterns and noted that the exit is designed to release only as much traffic as the system can handle during the worst peak time events. He noted that this is a unique situation in that this site is adjacent to an under utilized freeway. He indicated that the region will see a significant impact reduction on air quality issues, which would cause it to be viewed favorably under CEQA guidelines. He noted the specificity of CEQA with regard to noise issues; and indicated that they have met all standards. He detailed the closest neighbors to the project and indicated that they are easily within the limits of the General Plan and noise ordinance. . Mr. Molendyk clarified that mitigation reduces the concerns for the other developments, as all criteria is being met. Mr. Polo advised that they had a biological study done, which showed the unpleasant fact that there are a number of Gnatcatchers, but they are moving forward with a habitat conservation plan with fish and wildlife. He further explained difficulties in mitigating issues with coastal sage scrub. Councilman Alongi questioned the timing for completion of Nichols Road. Mr. Polo presented a plan for opening year with Nichols Road and noted the requirement for Lake Street to serve on an interim basis. He further detailed the proposed traffic flows and volumes; and the ultimate road buildouts. Mayor Pape requested clarification of the first phase of the project.. Mr. Polo indicated that everything on the site plan except the industrial/commercial and hotels will be completed in the first phase. Mayor Pape inquired whether the golf course and amphitheater will be in the first phase. Mr. Polo confirmed. Mayor Pape noted the positive impact these amenities will have on the community. Councilman Metze questioned the impact of this Amphitheater on the Stadium. Mr. Polo indicated that it will have a larger seating capacity. Mayor Pape noted the potential for different types of concerts in the amphitheater; and suggested that the two compliment each other. Special Projects Director Molendyk noted that it is easier to spread concert costs over 15,000 seats, and noted that this will increase flexibility. Mayor Pape questioned the anticipated first race day. Mr. Polo noted that most promotor want to see financial commitments and grading prior to committing. Mayor Pape inquired when they would start moving dirt for this project. Mr. Fabmy indicated that some commitments are in place for financing already and they are ready to move as soon as entitlements are received. Mayor Pape inquired if this matter went to the first City Council Meeting in September, when would they be moving dirt. Mr. Fahmy indicated that it will begin a fee weeks after approval is obtained, and noted that they have been involved for only a year on this project. Community Development Director Leslie clarified that in addition to City PAGE SEVEN STUDY SESSION MINUTES - AUGUST 5, 1997 entitlements, they will need approvals from California Fish and Game and U.S. Fish and Wildlife, noting that there is some ability to reclamation on that site already. Mayor Pape noted that he was told it would take about 6 months for 50 earthmovers to complete the project. Mr. Polo confirmed, and explained that the bulk of the work with be to fill the disturbed ravines. Councilman Metze questioned the status of the Environmental Impact Report. Mr. Polo noted that most people assume that there will be an E.I.R., which would be the case on blank land with no existing entitlements, and explained a comparison process based on the completed studies. He explained that typically the special studies are not done up front, but the most difficult issue to address will be noise. Mr. Metze noted that drag racing would be the biggest noise impact. Mr. Polo concurred but explained the site configuration further. Councilman Metze noted that the original proposal had a lot of positive, but the concern was the noise factor. Mr. Fahmy further commented on the configuration of the drag strip. Special Projects Director Molendyk noted the technical studies, but reminded the Council of the contour of the site; and pointed out that with the environmental review there will be work on a long term development agreement. Planning Commissioner Matthies questioned the area above the drag strip, and whether it will disturb the Gnatcatchers. Mr. Polo noted that most of the Gnatcatchers are along the freeway only. Mr. Polo also noted that the Pomona Fairgrounds is the NHRA designated site and they will have all the major events they want, but this facility will only get two regional qualifying events, or two days of the really loud events. He indicated that people will hear them for miles on the weekend, a couple of times a year; however it will not be an obvious noise factor. Planning Commissioner Schiffner questioned the possibility of having a relief map of the project to share with the public.- Mr. Polo indicated they could provide a model or a prospective wire frame of the site in relation to elements of the project. City Manager Watenpaugh inquired if it would be possible to computer generate the dimensions on the aerial photograph. Mr. Polo indicated that a graphic artist is working on a prospective and will have a wire frame soon. Councilman Metze concurred that there would be benefits to having a model of the site. Mr. Schiffner suggested an exaggerated vertical scale. Councilman Metze inquired if the developer was encouraged by the success of the raceway in Fontana. Mr. Polo stressed the large number of fans in Southern California. Mr. Polo noted that this is a situation where the landowner will also be the promoter and noted the success of the Penske facility. He finther noted that this project will be nice because of the variety of venues. Mr. Schiffner questioned what part of the project will exist at the first event. Mr. Fahmy indicated that they plan to start with the racetrack only, followed by the residential portion and the golf course and the rest falling into place after that. He finther indicated that they will start with the oval and the road racing course. Mr. Polo added that from a CEQA standpoint they need to look at the worst case scenario, which .a# PAGE EIGHT -STUDY SESSION MINUTES - AUGUST 5, 1997 would be to disturb the whole site from day one. Commissioner Sands questioned the traffic impact and whether it would necessitate closing the golf course for the 12 events a year. Mr. Polo indicated that it would not be necessary, and stressed that the design of the project will be so that people living in the area will not need to go around on a race day. Mayor Pape noted the dedicated entrance serving the condos and golf course. Mr. Sands further questioned the potential for closing the course 12 days a year. Mr. Molendyk clarified that they would most likely not close the course, but might even schedule a golf tournament concurrently with a major race. He reiterated that the traffic will not force closure of anything planned for the project. Chris Hyland, noted that some of her questions were answered; but expressed hopes that the developer was coming with their own money and not asking for RDA monies. She indicated that she would not suggest counting on an assessment district. She questioned the competition between this project and the Penske Fontana facility. Mr. Polo clarified that this is a different facility for the bigger participants. Mrs. Hyland questioned what happens with conflicting events. Mr. Polo indicated that there are generally not race fans across the board, there are a variety of interests; with Penske being a major NASCAR and cart racing facility. 1 He noted studies which convinced the-TT Group that this facility will pencil out financially. Mayor Pape further noted the different types of racing. Mr. Molendyk noted that there are different seasons in racing and they would generally not overlap, and pointed out that this developer intends to stand on their own financing and make the improvements required for the project, while looking down the road if the City or other property owners wanted to form an Assessment District, they would be willing to look at it. He stressed that they are prepared to get the work done to open the project. Mrs. Hyland questioned why it would be an Assessment District. Mr. Polo indicated that they are proposing an assessment district; with only the people in the District being the major property owners adjacent to the project. Mr. Molendyk noted that this project is not in the Redevelopment Agency Project Area, so he did not see how the RDA would be involved. Mrs. Hyland noted that she lived in West Garden Grove and when Long Beach had their races they could hear the noise; and differed with the comments on noise. Mr. Polo indicated that the noise would be heard at a background level during the 12 major events. He stressed that the project has hit the most restrictive target with regard to noise. Mr. Molendyk confirmed and indicated that the noise would not be any more than what the people hear every weekend on the Lake. Commissioner Sands questioned Staff and Council regarding the zoning for the commercial and industrial. Community Development Director Leslie indicated that the zoning on the property is the Specific Plan, currently a residential specific plan. He explained that what is being proposed, is to take forward an amended specific plan to create a new land use designation or zoning to allow for the uses. He noted the discussion of a model for the project and noted that PAGE NINE _ STUDY SESSION MINUTES - AUGUST 5, 1997 there may be difficulty having such a model prepared in two weeks fro the Planning Commission Meeting, or even in five weeks for the City Council Meeting. Commissioner Schiffner indicated that he was thinking of a model over a period of time, while the project is ongoing. Mr. Fahmy indicated that they intend to develop a model for the entire project, as it is a good idea. Mr. Polo indicated that the work is underway and it would be available for the Planning Commission meeting. Commissioner Wilsey questioned the dimensions of the parking area. Mr. Polo explained that it is 150 acres of parking, which is only parked on 20 days a year; and indicated that it does not make sense from a maintenance point to grade and pave a parking area for that use. He pointed out the paved areas vs. graded areas on the plan. Commissioner Barnes questioned parking for buses and R.V.'s. Mr. Polo advised that AQMD mandates the requirement for bus parking and there will be R.V. parking as well Commissioner Wilsey requested that they be more prepared to give square footage of the paved areas at the Planning Commission, and indicated that the more paved, the better it would be. Commissioner Matd -&s questioned the tennis courts near the hotel and why they are across the parking lot from the hotel. Mr. Polo indicated that the specific plan proposing the amenities is not specific enough, but addresses the relationship between the uses. He explained that they will be bringing back specific development plans for consideration. Commissioner Sands questioned whether there had been any consideration for a fire station or Sheriff substation in the area. Mayor Pape indicated that there had not, and reiterated that the events would only be a few days a year. Special Projects Director Molendyk indicated that the potential is there, but when the specific plans were approved the Fire Department did not see a need on the proposed sites. Mr. Polo indicated that this site is not set up to be a drain on municipal services. He stressed that the promoter of the event will be responsible to hire off duty law enforcement, Medivac helicopter and fire services as necessary. He noted the interest in having specialists on the track for those services. Mr. Barnes noted the potential for increased need from traffic accidents between vehicles accessing the event. Mr. Fahmy indicated that trey are looking at a tremendous amount of employment and taxes for this prc_ject, and noted that the increased assessed value and related taxes could help, L.o supply funds to meet the needs created by the project. He r•.oed that liey w_ be negotiating a ticket tax to be paid to the City as well. He stressed that tuc'r are not certain of the burdens produced by this project._ Mr. Polo iildicated1hat the residential portion is the hardest impact to support, for a city. He also noted PAGE TEN - STUDY SESSIONMINUTES - AUGUST 59 1997 the sales tax which will be produced by the concessions on site. Mr. Fahmy stressed that the County and City will benefit from the completed project, creating a win -win situation. Mayor Pape concurred that it would be better to have this project than 3,000 homes; and noted the national recognition this will draw for the City. He stressed the wide spread popularity of racing and the wide area from which spectators and participants will be drawn. Mr. Fahmy noted the potential for increased property values in the community. Councilman Alongi noted for the benefit of the press that this is not a two year project. Mr. Fahmy concurred that it would be a 3 to 15 year project. Councilman Alongi stressed that some factors are not certain, but noted that it appears to be a good project. He expressed concern with misinforming the public on how soon the funds will come to the City. Mayor Pape noted that it was clear that the project would be phased in. Mr. Alongi stressed the potential for problems with this type of project and the need to be realistic on what is reported to the public. He reiterated that this is a long term project. Mr. Fahmy concurred, but indicated that they do not have a set time line yet. Mayor Pape noted the goal to start moving dirt in October, assuming things which are out of the developer's control can be addressed; and indicated that they are continuing to meeting with the proper agencies and the financing is already committed. PUBLIC COMMENTS - NON - AGENDIZED ITEMS No Comments. CITY MANAGER COMMENTS No Comments. CITY COUNCIL COMMENTS No Comments. ADJOURNMENT The Joint Study Session was adjourned at :04 p.m. VIN W. PAPE, MAYOR CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE CLERK CITY' OF LAKE ELSINORE