HomeMy WebLinkAbout02-04-1997 City Council Study SessionMIPTUTES
CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE
130 SOUTH MAIN STREET
LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNLA
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 1997
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CALL TO ORDER
The City Council Study Session was called to order at 9:04.
ROLL CALL
PRESENT: COUNCILMEMBERS:
ABSENT: COUNCILMEMBERS:
ALONGI, BRINLEY, KELLEY, PAPE
METZE
Also present were: Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh, Public Services Director Sapp,
Recreation and Tourism Manager Edelbrock, Administrative Services Director Boone, Assistant
to the City Manager Best, City Engineer O'Donnell and Deputy City Clerk Bryning.
PUBLIC COMMENTS - None
1. Community Development Block Grant - 23rd Year.
Mayor Pape stated that this is his least favorite Study Session of the year because there is
never enough money and it makes it very difficult to pick and choose where the money
should go since there aze so many good programs and there is never enough money to
spread around to do the most good.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh presented an overview of the Community
Development Block Grant Funding. I3e noted that this year the City will receive $196,000
which is down from the previous year since funding was cut from the Federal level. He
fixrther noted that last year during the Budget Study Session, Council ageed to pull
Creneral Fund tax dollars from the Senior Citizens Center and fund them with grants from
shares ofthe City's CDBG as well as the County's CDBG as part ofthe financial strategy
to allow us to get our finances back on top. He stated that this year the City has received
seven Non-profit applications for funding. Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh noted
that the City is unentitled, therefore we get our funding through the County which has a
portion taken off the top to pay for their administration. He explained that the City has
worked with the County to allow the City to use the total amount of dollars for the total
cap, even though we do not get a portion of the money as our allocation basis, therefore
we will be able to allocate $51,978 to public service organizations for public service
projects with a balance of $144,556 for public works projects. He explained that the
CDBG Funds can only be used for low income or removal of blight. He further noted that
there are several areas that are exempt from that criteria; one being parks, Senior Citizens
projects, as well as the removal of blight as community service projects. Assistant City
Manager Watenpaugh explained the 23rd Year Funding Program and gave an overview of
the different breakdowns of funding. He stated that staff recommends allocating $51,978
to the Senior Center 5ervices and the balance of $144,556 to be allocated to the
Swick/Matich Park Expansion. He noted that staff was informed that under the Public
Service Programs the City will receive appro~mately $7,000 from the Office on Aging
PAGE TWO - CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION MINUTES - FEBRUARY,4, 1997'.
which is down $1,800 from last year. He stated that Supervisor Buster has informed us
that we will receive CDBG Funding from the County, but not in the amount that we
received last year. He explained that is why the City allocated all of the monies from 23rd
Year CDBG Funding for Public Services to the Senior Center. He noted that last year we
allocated $40,000 to the Senior Center because of other sources, but this year we are
allocating the $51,978 because we are not sure what we will be receiving from Supervisor
Buster. He noted that staff may haue to come back to Council to reallocate fixnding if
there is any available in order to keep the Center open year round.
Mayor Pape asked what the County's contribution to the Senior Center was last year.
Public Services Director Sapp stated that it was $30,000.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh explained that in regard to the Swiok/Matich Park
expansion, this would be the third year that the City has allocated funding to that project
and this year would see the completion of that project. He noted however, that if in fact
the City's Measure does not pass in June, staff will be returning to Council to request a
reallocation of funds since it is not recommended that the City go forward to build as there
would be no funds to operate and maintain the facility. He noted that if the Measure does
pass then we will have the ability to maintain and operate.
Mayor Pape asked if Supervisor Buster gave the City an idea of the amount that the City
would receive. Public Services Director 5app stated that our County Coordinator for
CDBG informed him that the City would receive some funds but no specific amount was
given.
Councilwoman Brinley stated that "some funds" could be $1.98, and this does not help
Council make decisions.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh explained that the Council cannot wait, because of
the time line and we must go forward to get our projects into the County otherwise we
loose all of our funding.
Mayor Pape asked if there was anyone in the audience that wanted to address this item.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley asked if the Senior Center was aware that the funds were going to
be cut on the County level and aze they prepared to make up the short fall. Assistant City
Manager Watenpaugh explained that staffwill have to evaluate, and possibly the number
of hours will have to be cut, or possibly staff can save additional dollars to make up the
difference.
Mayor Pape stated that the County can cut by $12,000 and the City will still be at the
same level as last years fixnding, because we have increase our level of fixnding. Public
Services Director Sapp stated that it may not be a problem, but at this point staffjust
doesn't know.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley asked how many yeazs the Senior Center has received all of the
CDBG funds. Public Services Director 5app stated that last year was the first year that it
was funded 100% by grant dollars. Mayor Pro Tem Kelley asked about previous years.
Public Services Director Sapp explained that the previous year the majority was funded by
the General Fund. Mayor Pro Tem Kelley asked how the Senior Center was operated
when the majority of the funding was done by the General Fund. Assistant City Manager
Watenpaugh explained that the Senior Center used to be operated by a group called
Golden Spectrum, a private non-profit organization, put together by the ministries, and a
series of ministers ran the program.
Councilwoman Brinley asked if Golden Spectrum is still in existence. Assistant City
Manager Watenpaugh stated that they were, but in a different form. Councilwoman
PAGE THREE - CITY COUNCIL STiJDY 5ESSION MINUTES - FEBRUARY 4, 1997
Brinley asked if they were still working for the Seniors. Public Services Director Sapp
stated that they work as a support group for the Senior Center. He noted that when
Golden Spectrum was operating the Senior Center the City was paying all of the
maintenance and operation costs and they provided all of the programs. Assistant City
Manager Watenpaugh added that in the last year or two of Golden Spectrum's term that
the City subsidized their operations for staff.
COUNCILMAN METZE ARRIVED AT THE MEETING AT 9:23 A.M.
Councilman Alongi stated that he has some concerns with this program and he doesn't see
how the expansion of Swick/Matich field benefits the total community. He further stated
that he does not see how putting a boat in the water is more unportant than feeding
families. He noted the Senior Center and explained that he gets tired of supplementing it
and asked why the City does not put the 5enior Center on volunteer service since the City
is paying an employee so many dollars a year. He noted that there are people at the
Center that are qualified and have worked there for many years in the past supervising the
Center. He further explained that if we have to cut dollars, he doesn't see why we can't
cut $10,000 from the Senior Center and allow them to replace the short fall with
volunteers. He stated that they would have to start picking up the slack. He stated that
there are other organizations that are very important to our community and we haue
always struggled to assist them. He further noted that they are not wasteful charity
organizations and do play an important role in this community. He made.special note of
Operation School Bell, Hope and Alternative to Domestic Violence and explained that
they are all very important. He noted that there is Murrieta Va11ey Unified School District
- Parent Center and the Emergency Cold Weather Shelter as well.
There was general discussion in regard to the previous funding of the different programs.
Councilman Alongi stated that it seems that every yeaz the Council goes through this
process and it seems unfair, speaking of his t~ dollars, that Council is put in this kind of
position to make decisions in regard to a parking lot. He noted that Council could delete
$10,000 &om the parking lot and replace it from our reserve. He further noted that the
$10,000 could be allocated to organizations that keep the crime rate down in this
community, since that is what these different organizations do. He further explained that
they give the kids the opportunity to go to school with clothes on their backs so they are
notashamed of themselves. Councilman Alongi stated that he knows that staff knows
that, but he doesn't feel good about about the situation and he feels that Council has to
make a special effort, especially because the 5enior Center can take care of itself and
noted that they need to contribute something to these different organizations now. He
explained that the City is not in a position to keep feeding money into the Senior Center.
He fixrther stated that he supports the Seniors and he knows that the Seniors would feel
the same way if Council allocates the $51,000 and doesn't give anything to the other
organizations. He noted that the CDBG funds aze for everyone, and not just a select few.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley clarified that 85% of the funds must go toward Public Works
Projects, therefore $144,556 must go towards Public Works. Public Services Director
Sapp confirmed. Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that if staffwere to take $10,000 from this
to put toward any other service then it would haue to be taken from the Senior Center and
cannot be taken from the Public Works Projects. Public Services Director Sapp
confirmed. Mayor Pro Tem Kelley questioned the heating and air-conditioning system at
the Community Center could be allocated from the Public Works Funding. Public
Services Direct Sapp explained that the heating and air-conditioning system at the
Community Center does not qualify. He gaue an overview of the requirements of the
CDBG funding and what is allowed under their criteria. There was general discussion in
regard to why certain projects do and do not qualify.
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PAGE FOUR - CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION - FEBRUARY 4,1997 ;
Councilman Alongi asked why $10,000 could not be taken from the $51,989 and be
allocated to other organizations. Mayor Pape stated that he would go along with that if
Supervisor Buster allocates the County's shaze the same as they did last year, because
there are a lot of people that live in the County that use the Senior Center, but if the
County cuts back then the City will haue to make up the difference. Councilman Alongi
stated that it does not solve the problem that the City is experiencing this year. He noted
that the County does not haue the backbone to step up and take care of the people that
use the Senior Center. He explained that Council should not take the attitude of making
up the difference. Councilman Alongi stated that there are other organizations in this
town and by not contributing to them will put them out of business and this will cause
bigger problems in the community than we haue today. He noted that the people at the
Senior Center realize that if they are told the situation they will have to volunteer time to
pick up the hours of operation and if not then we shut down the Center for one or two
days just like we do in City Hall. He stated that however, the other organizations that we
have are just as important as the Seniors. He noted that we have other people in these
other organizations that cannot help themselves and depend on the elected officials to
assist them and give them the opportunity to serve: He further noted that the Senior
Center has received a tremendous amount of money from the City over the last five years
that he has been in office and feels that it is time that the Senior Center take a little less
money, regardless of what the County contributes. He further noted that he does not care
what the County does, and if the County comes in and picks up their fair share then thaYs
fine, but if they do not it is on their conscious and not ours because we still have people in
this community that we need to take care of. He further explained that the County gave to
HOPE, and we haue contributed to them regazdless of what the County does. He stated
that he hates this meeting and wished that Council didn'thave to have it at all.
Councilwoman Brinley stated that she agreed with Councilman Alongi that she hates this
meeting and noted that if the County comes through and gives their fair share or at least
the same as last year, she would like to see $10,000 taken from the $51,978 and help two
.- organizations, HOPE and School Bell, because ofthe good work that these organizations
-: do directly for our community. She stated that it is not that she doesn't want to fund the
others, but she feels that these have a direct impact.
Councilman Alongi stated that it is important to look at what these organization do for
our community.
Councilman Metze asked if Lake Elsinore had a Pazenting Center. Mayor Pro Tem Kelley
stated that we did. He asked then why Council would want to contribute to Murrieta
School District. -•
Kate Van Horn, Manager of the Murrieta Parenting Center, explained that the reason that
she has submitted an application to Council is because 12% of their organization services
people from Lake Elsinore at her center and noted that they keep track by Zip Code and it
does include the 92530 Zip Code in her service area. There was general discussion by
Council to explain that the 92530 Zip Code is County as well as Corporate Boundaries
and that it is not easy to define how many citizens of the City of Lake Elsinore use that
facility. Councilwoman Brinley explained that because of tight funding, it is important to
take care of our own first, and then if there are funds available others can be helped.
CounciLnan Metze explained that at this point Council would need a more defined count
of Corporate City users.
Don Butenshon, Chairman of HOPE, explained that his organization is helping the Senior
Center in assisting the 8eniors who are on SSI by providing food for them once a month
as well as assisting five different food ministries here in Lake Elsinore every week. He
noted the other programs that they administer and pointed out that it done on a
PAGE FIVE - CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION - FEBRUARY 4,1997
complete volunteer basis. He made note of future project that they hope to accomplish
and explained the problems that their volunteers face in the operation of the their program.
He noted that Supervisar Buster has recognized that within the County they are the only
organization that operates in this manner. Councilwoman Brinley asked if HOPE had
received word from Supervisor Buster that they would receive funding from the County
level. Mr. Butenshon stated that they have had meetings and the County is aware of their
needs for this coming year. Councilman Metze asked what the County allocated HOPE
last year. Mr. Butenshon stated that last year the City allocated $5,000 and the County
allocated $15,000. He told Council about wanting to attend a summit in Washington D.C.
on Volunteerism and stated that he hoped that they did not send politicians and corporate
people, but rather the people who work with volunteer organizations.
Councilman Metze noted the 85/15% split and stated that he feels that this should be more
accommodating to each azea and latitude should be allowed to each area to pick what
should be done with the funds within a given percentage. He asked that staff let Council
know what amount of money is given to the Senior Center from the County.
There was general discussion in regard to the split of CDBG fixnds. :,
Councilman Alongi stated that he felt that there were areas that could be cut back on the
operation of the Senior Center by the City and use volunteers and if that does not work
out then the Center can be closed when the staff can not be there. He stated that he felt
that we have an obligation to the people of the City of Lake Elsinore and not the County
and if Supervisor Buster feels responsible, then he will come up with the dollars from the <
County to help support the Senior Center, and not expect the City to carry the ent've load.
He noted that $10,000 will go a long way to assist other agencies that primarily take care
of Lake Elsinore.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh stated that staffs recommendation was based on
agreements with the Financial Advisor and what Council had agreed upon, however if
Councils wishes to make changes, then staff will follow that direction. He noted that the
CDBG is part of our revenue stream and that was what was agreed upon.
Councilman Metze questioned the amounts that were allocated last year, and pointed out
that we addressed Code Enforcement last year. He noted that the funds came from Public
Works because the City did not need the entire amount for the phase of the pazk that we
were working on. Public Services Director Sapp clarified the amounts allocated last year.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that there are a lot of organizations within the City that did
not apply for the CDBG funds because they knew that there would be no money available
for their organization. Councilman Metze stated that they should have applied anyway.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that she felt that the Senior Center is becoming the only
place that profits from these funds and she ageed with Councilman Alongi that there
should be a limit that goes to the Senior Center to allow other organizations to profit from
these funds. She asked how far the City is going to support the Senior Center since their
needs will only go up and this would exclude the others.
Councilwoman Brinley agreed that there should be a cap, and volunteers should take the
place of employees and relieve the cost. She noted that there is going to come a time
when they should be responsible for their organizations and the City will need to give
support to the othera
Councilman Metze pointed out that our funding was reduced by 8%.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley agreed and she pointed out that each year it may continue to go
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, PAGE SIX - CITY COUNCIL 5TUDY- SESSION - FEBRUARY 4, 1997 : _
down and Council needs to begin to look at this issue and address this. She noted that
there are other organizations that need assistance as well.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh pointed out the problems that the City faces due to
the recent passage of 218, and the CDBG funds were allocated for this purpose to
maintain a balance of the City's budget to allow services to continue at the Senior Center.
He noted that after the vote in 7une, the City may be in a better position to free up more
money for the Senior Center.
Councilman Alongi stated that Council knew that 218 would cause a problem. He noted
that the Senior Center is there to service Seniors and HOPE is there to run a food bank,
but they have to know that there will come a time when they are going to haue to do
volunteer time. He stated that when money is given to HOPE there is no salary, all the
money goes to service the community. He explained that the money we give to HOPE is
also being used for the Senior Center, therefore we are putting that same money-in use for
them as well in an indirect way. He noted that the City has give the Senior Center well
over $200,000 in the last three years and that includes the horse-shoe pits, new buildings,
and so on. He stated that it is time that they start taking care of themselves.
Councilman Metze stated that this would put the Senior Center to the people themselves.
He stated that he felt that the percentage portion was a good idea.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that as soon as that information gets out there will be
several other organizations in the City that will be willing to go through the hoops and try
to get assistance from the City.
Mayor Pape asked if this issue would be on the next City Council Agenda for February 12,
1997. Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh stated that it would. He asked for some type
of firm direction to staff. Mayor Pape stated that it should be $4,000 from the Senior
Center and allocated to HOPE. He eacplained that cutting more would be hurting the City.
Councilwoman Brinley asked where the $4,000 came from. Mayor Pape stated that it
could come from the PFA.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that she would like us to give the Senior Centec$40,000
and allocate the rest to others.
Councilwoman Brinley stated that ifwe took the $10,000 she suggests that we give
$5,000 to HOPE and $5,000 to School Bell. She stated that if the ballot measure passes
then we can give the money back to the Senior Center.
It was the consensus of Council that all of the organizations were important.
Councilman Alongi stated that Council should pick a committee and get Senator Haynes
by the ear and get the program changed. He stated that they do haue influence even if
they don't have jurisdiction. He noted that they know the people to talk to and the bells to
ring.
Mayor Pape asked that staff study the issue and bring back information as to how the
reduction of $10,000 would affect the Senior Center.
There was general discussion in regard to the impact.
PAGE SEVEN - CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION - FEBRUARY 4, 1997
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh stated that the reason that the City is now operating
the Senior Center is because Golden Spectrum couldn't continue operation because they
did not haue the funding to continue.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley questioned the 85% of the CDBG that went to the parks. She
, asked if the Boat Launch and pazking lot would be finished this year. Public Services
Director Sapp explained that the Boat Launch and Parking Lot would be finished this year
and the 85% CDBG money would go for the basket ball courts and heli-pad for the
SheriffsOffice as well as the pad being used as a roller blade court.
2. Lake Annual Use Pass Fee Review.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh gave a brief overview of the Lake Use Fees and
explained that there has been considerable discussion with property owners from both the
City and County to define what is the best method to address this issue both in
administration and enforcement as well as generating additional revenue for the City. He
-.:. noted that this will generate a small benefit for City residents since the City residents
cunently pay for some operation and maintenance of the Lake. He explained that staff has
offered three options for Council to consider and give direction. Assistant City Manager
Watenpaugh explained some of the problems that have been experienced and explained
that he felt that by lowering the fees that it would generate more income and promote
purchases of passes instead of illegally launching.
Councilman Metze asked if enforcement was able to issue tickets for launching without a
pass.
Mayor Pape questioned the ability of enforcement on that issue.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh stated that it is a case of not being able to catch
everyone since there is only one to two persons on patrol and it is hard to see who is
launching on every piece of property.
There was general discussion in regazd to illegal launching and how it occurs.
Councilman Metze addressed the problem with the Associations keeping the City current
and it is not our problem to do their follow-up. The residents of the Associations need to
address it with their organizations and correct the problem. He noted that it is not staffs
responsibility to obtain up-dated lists. Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh explained that
it is a matter of public relations and the City tries to work with those people. Councilman
Metze stated that the City is paying for everything and the County is not contributing any
support to the Lake and should be held accountable. Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh
noted that is why the County residents will be charged a slightly higher fee, which will off-
set the cost the City resident is paying.
Mayor Pape explained that he must leave due to a previous commitment and asked staff' ..
to clarify the information on Option III.
There was general discussion in regard to the Lake-Front Property Owners and Non-
Residents Lake Front Property Owners as well as Resident and Non-Resident General
Public.
Public Services Director Sapp addressed the Non-Powered craft and the adjusted fee to
address the concerns of the wind surfers and small hand carried craft. He noted that wind
surfers are limited to late afternoon due to the wind conditions as well as canoes and
kayak that choose to use the lake.
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- PAGE EIGHT - CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION-- FEBRUARY 4,1997 . .
There was general discussion in regard to the type of craft that Non-Powered defines and
Public Services Director Sapp noted that any craft that has a non-CF numbers that can be
launched by hand. Assistant City Manager defined the type of craft that would be allowed
and concurred with Public Services Director Sapp.
Councilwoman Brinley stated that Option III is similar to the fees charged at Arrowhead
Lake and Big Bear Lake.
MAYOR PAPE LEFT THE MEETING AT 10:04 A.M.
Peter Dawson, South shore Homeowners Association, addressed the verbiage of Non-
Motorized versus Non-Powered since a standard sailboat is powered by the wind. He
stated that this Lake belongs to everyone and was owned by the State and the State
choose to take the Lake from the County residents and give it to the City. Council stated
that it was not given to the City. Mr. Dawson stated that they didn't pay the County for
what they took. He stated appreciation to the City for the recognition of the people in the
County who use the Lake. He noted that they do their share and do pay to use the Lake.
He emphasized that any unequal treatment will generate resentment and stressed that the
fee should be the same for the County as it is for the City. - He noted that equal treatment
would help to capture the fees because the County residents would be more willing to
cooperate with the City. He e~cplained that the County residents would support any
reasonable fee and again asked that the City not give them unequal treatment. He stated
that the County fees and the Senior Discount are good and that the basic $75. is the
conect amount for all users both City and County. He noted that most of the people that
live on the Lake Front use the Lake at odd times and do not utilize the Lake on the
weekend and do not use the services of Sergeant Peters because of familiarity with the
Lake and iYs rules. He addressed the problem of people that are visiting residents on the
Lake Front and their agreement of hauing them launch at private or City owned facilities
to assist in a fair share situation and stated that this should-be in the rules. He noted that
his organization feels that any program should protect and secure access so that any
private or City owned facility would gain the launch revenues. He felt that one fee for all
residents would assure cooperation. Mr. Dawson concluded that three years ago when
this was first addressed the City was very concerned that the system might become over-
burdened with County users which would cause a reduction in Lake revenue. He noted
that history has proved that not to be the cause and qualifies the opinion that the fee
should be the same. He noted that it is not just the City people, but the County people
that go out to help when there is a problem and that the County residents caze about the
Lake as much as the City residents do.
Councilwoman Brinley stated that she felt that it is an example of a good neighbor policy
and has nothing to do with where a person lives, but rather their willingness to give
assistance. She explained that the City did not take the Lake away from the County, but
rater the State made a decision that they did not want to retain ownership of the Lake and
maintain it. She noted that it was apparent that the State had not taken care of the Lake
for years. She further explained that the citizens of the community picked up the tab.
Councilman Metze explained that each and every citizen of the City pays for the lake,
whereas each and every citizen of the County does not.
Councilwoman Brinley stated that the City people are picking up the tab in their tases and
that is why there is an increase of $25 in the fee for the County residents. She noted that
over the year the citizens of Lake Elsinore pay for the entire cost and pointed out that her
own family has to pay a non-resident fee. She noted the financial problems that the City is
experiencing and explained that the Lake is a business and must be address as such.
Councilwoman Brinley stated that she felt that the City has made a great effort to make
the fees fair for all parties concerns. She noted that the citizens should get a break,
because they pay more. She stated that she feels that the proposed fees are very fair.
PAGE NINE - CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION - FEBRUARY 4, 1997
Joe Crognale, Manager of Elsinore West Marina, stated that the fees, whether it is $150
or $75 is immaterial, the only complaint that he receives is why are one person is paying
more than someone else. He noted that last summer there was an article in the newspaper
that said that the Lake was the one entity that almost broke even and the difference
between revenue and cost of operation was approxirnately $15,000 or $20,000 difference
and that is a minimal difference. He stated that if the issue is addressed in that manner, the
Lake is a push
Council assured Mr. Crognale that the facts that were placed in the paper were not correct
and noted that the Lake is stili loosing money.
Mr. Cognale stated that if the paper is not right then he has to revise his opinion. He
noted the closure of the Lake last summer was a problem, but he understands that it will
only be a partial closure for events this year and that presents no problem to his clients.
He further explained that he has no problem with the proposed fee structure.
Councilwoman Brinley noted that if Mr. Cognale's patrons question the fee, it can be
explained that the difference is to assist in covering the day to day cost of the maintenance
of the Lake.
Mr. Cognale stated that the only people that had a problem with the fee were the people
from Lake Elsinore and they felt that $150 was too high. He commented that with the
new proposed fee schedule, there would be no complaint. He suggested that there only be
one fee for everyone.
Councilman Metze explained that the problem is that the County residents don't
understand that each and every homeowner in the City pays e~ctra already and the people
in the County do not.
Councilwoman Brinley pointed out that each homeowner in the City has to pay for the
Lake whether they own a boat or not, but if the residents in the County do not own a boat,
it doesn't affect them one way or the other.
Councilman Metze stated that there are several homeowners with boats in his
neighborhood that use the Lake and he feels that there should be a little bit of a break
since they do support the Lake through their taares. He asked Mr. Dawson if the County
residents were really going to be that aggravated because they have to pay just a little bit
more. Mr. Dawson stated that if there is any difference it will be resented.
Council commended Mr. Dawson for all of his service and dedication to the Lake, but it
was noted that the Council must look at the community as a whole to make it fair and
equal.
Councilman Metze asked Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh if the staff could come up
with a number that the County residents could propose to Supervisor Buster to allow the
County residents to off-set the cost of the maintenance and operation of the Lake.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh explained that part of what Mr. Dawson is saying is
if it is a different rate, then it is different. He noted that at a set fee of $75 a County
resident is paying within $1.00 of the same rate as a resident is paying at $50 because of
their annual contributions that are made in their Lighting and Landscaping District
Assessment. He explained that the City has tried to make it fair and equitable and possibly
if County residents would like to take a proposal to Supervisor Buster and the County
would be willing to contribute the same for their residents as the City residents are paying
for in the Lighting and Landscaping Assessment, then the fee could be made the same.
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PAGE TEN - CITY GOUNCIL STUDY SESSION - FEBRUARY 4, 1997
- Mr: Cognale noted that the only persons who are buying annual passes are the people who
use the Lake weekend after weekend and in a way they are beating the system, because
they would pay anyway.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh explained that it is money up front and the City can
allocate those funds, whereas a day to day receipt is not something that the City can
depend on for their budget expenditures.
Mr. Cognale stated that it is not fees that concern him, but rather the lack of enforcement
which he knows is not the City's fault. He noted an incident where he was told by
someone who is not a resident that he was able to be on the Lake without paying a fee.
Mr. Cognale stated that if he ever sees him he will nail him because it is not right.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh explained that when the City took over the Lake, the
City adopted the Lake Fees and Fines and at that time it was Council's direction to reduce
some of the fines because the State had set to high an amount for some of their fines. He
asked that Council consider that the fees on the Lake are City fees and the fines City fines,
not State fines and do not go on the violator's DMV, therefore if the fines are not paid,
each individual must be taken to small claims court and is not cost effective.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley asked if the options came from a committee or from staff. Public
Services Director Sapp stated that it is a combination of both. He noted the committee
was made up of staff and local business persons from azound the Lake as well as input
from the general public either received on the phone or in the office which played a major
role in the suggestions presented.
Councilman Alongi stated that most of the people on the committee had self interest since
if the fee is lowered it gives them more business. He questioned cost and revenue of the
Lake. Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh stated that staff would bring those numbers
back to the next Council Meeting. Councilman Alongi stated that originally the Lake did
not belong to the State, but rather the City and although the County keeps referring to
riparian rights which they say appear on their deeds, there has been no proof that they are
correct. He pointed out that no matter what happens, if the City goes broke, the County
is not going to come in and make the payments on the Lake. He stated that the County
residents sit in the County and enjoy the Lake and have no responsibility to it as far as
finances. He noted that as far as maintenance everyone has a responsibility. Councilman
Alongi stated that he is not in favor of the reduction of fees, but he does feel that the City
residents should get a special break and the County should have to pay twice. He stated
that he is tired of subsidizing the movie theater, the stadium and the Lake. He stated that
he felt the fees should stay the same and should be $150 for residents and $200 for the
County. He noted that the annual pass that people buy will be purchased anyway for
people who want to use the Lake no matter the cost. He noted that he does not feel that
the City is responsible for building businesses up in the County and the City does not get
taxes from the County nor does the City get the DMV taxes from the County which insure
the Lake. Councilman Alongi noted that Council was informed that the County resents
the City and he stated that he resents paying the bill for the County share of funds that it
take to keep the Lake open and to hell with the resentment from the County. He stated
that he wants the Lake to be productive and pay for itself just as he wants the ball-field to
pay for itself. He explained that if the fee has to be $150 or $200 so be it. He stated that
if they want to use it, fine and if they don't want to use it, don't.
Councilman Metze noted that when Supervisor Buster was campaigning he stated that he
was going to support the Lake and be involved, and now where is he. He stated that
possibly the County residents need to push his buttons and point out that things need to be
fair between the County and the City residents. He further stated that he knew right from
PAGE ELEVEN - CITY COUNCIL ST.UDY SESSION - FEBRUARY 4, 1997
the beginning that it was a bunch of bull, but he make promise after promise that he was
going to help the Lake and since he has been elected there has not been word one.
Councilwoman Brinley concurred with Councilman Metze regarding Supervisor Buster.
She stated that she feels that the City should get a break since they do pick up the cost of
the Lake and carry the burden year round. She noted that if the City had a problem and
could not make the payment, she does not see the County stepping forward to help the
City.
Councilman Metze stated that he concurs with Option III.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley asked how much it cost to launch. Public Services Director Sapp
stated that it varies from Private to City launch fees. He stated that the private sector
charges from $6 to $11 for launching and day use depending on the various rules set by
that business, and the City chazges $6 for every launch and $5 for day use.
Councilman Alongi stated that he felt that the City should charge more to stay out of
competition with the private sector. He pointed out that the businesses are asking for an
advantage when they request that the City lower the fees, but he would be more in fauor
of raising the City fees to encourage private enterprise.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley asked how many annual passes did the City sell last year.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh stated that there were 141 passes sold for 1996 and
101 for 1995. He stated that he felt that the City will generate more up-front money with
a lower rate.
Councilman Alongi stated that staff doesn't know that for sure.
Assistant City Managers Watenpaugh stated that staffwill address the word motorized
and noted that fines have not been addressed, but can be in the future.
Councilman Metze stated that he would like to see this addressed, since if people are
cheating and get caught the amount should be a detenent and not a small fine.
Councilman Alongi asked if a person could get a Lake Use Pass without a launching pass.
Public Services Director Sapp stated that you could.
There was general discussion in regard to Annual Lake Launch Pass. Assistant City
Manager Watenpaugh stated that when the launch is completed, the cost can be
reevaluated.
Public Services Director Sapp clarified that Option III is what Council wishes to have staff
present. Council concurred.
3. Proposed Fees for Rental of Diamond Stadium and the Diamond Cub.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh noted that the City has now taken over the Stadium ;
and the fees presented are the fees that need City Council review and approval.
Councilwoman Brinley stated that she feels that Council should hold this item and give
themselves time for review.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh pointed out the study is what has been presented this
morning, but the fees are in your packet which you received last week.
a u~,,.,~. . . . . . . . - ~ . 6
PAGE TWELVE - CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION - FEBRUARY 4, 1997 -
Councilman Alongi questioned the rental fees for the parking lots. Assistant City Manager
Watenpaugh explained the fee structure for the parking lots and explained that they are
based on the formula that if all spaces were $lled, it would be $2.00 per space.
Councilman Alongi questioned the clean-up fee. Assistant City Manager explained that
there is a charge of $65 for the street sweeper and a charge for whatever stafftime is
required which is over and above the cost of the parking lot.
Councilman Alongi asked why the City needs ushers. Assistant City Manager
Watenpaugh explained that the ushers are an item used if requested and the fee is
according to use.
Councilman Alongi questioned the traffic control fees. Assistant City Manager
Watenpaugh explained that the traffic plan must go through Engineering and the Sheriffs
Department and fees are charged accordingly.
There was general discussion in regard to what is required and what is an option for fees
and what is not an option. Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh explained that each
application must be reviewed by staffto address each individual event and what the City
will require for the proposed event.
CounciLnan Metze questioned the cost of the lights and asked why we are not charging
more and pointed out that the City charges for the lights, but not for the cost of
maintenance of the lights. Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh noted that the
maintenance is off-set by the Stadium Rental cost and then-the applicant must pay the
actual use cost. He explained that the rate that the City charges for lights has been
established by the Electric Company.
There was general discussion in regard to the survey and the information it provided
compared to the Diamond Stadium.
Councilman Alongi questioned the use of the ticket booth and asked if it was necessary to
use staff provided by the City. Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh stated that it is up to
the person promoting the event and they can provide their own ticket takers.
There was general discussion in regard to options and Councilman Alongi felt that the fees
should be broken down in a more clear manner to allow the applicant to know which items
are required and which items are an option to give the applicant the opportunity to get a
rough figure of their costs. He suggested that a list be made of charges of items that could
be figured "As Needed". Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh stated that staff will go
over the breakdown of fees to clarify the amounts required and the fees that are optional
and bring it back to Council.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley questioned the fee received for the football games. Assistant City
Manager Watenpaugh explained that the City charges them the fee of $1000, but that
money does not generate back into the City. He explained that the fee is used for the field
and general maintenance.
Assistant City Manager Watenpaugh noted e~sting Council's policy which allows staffto
continue the activity at the rate approved by Council unless there is a problem, at which
time the activity is placed in review and brought back to Council. He explained that staff
will be coming back to Council with High School Football this year for review.
Councilman Metze noted that the fee is not paying for replacement, only for the immediate
cost of each event.
PAGE THIIiTEEN - CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION - FEBRUARY 4, 1997
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that Council knows that the Sunrise Service and High
School Football are coming up and Council can reconsider. Assistant City Manager
Watenpaugh stated that Sunrise Services will not be coming up for another two yeazs
and since there have been no problems that can continue to be run administratively, but if
there is a problem then they will bring it back to Council.
ADJOURNMENT
MOVED BY BRINLEY, SECONDED BY METZE AND CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS
VOTE OF THOSE PRESENT TO ADJOURN THE CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION
AT 11:00 A.M.
Respectfully submitted,
_ // ~
Adria . Bryning, eputy City lerk ~
ATTEST:
1_
2
VICHI KASAD, CITI' CLERK