HomeMy WebLinkAbout02-24-1998 City Council MinutesMINUTES
! REGULAR CTTY COUNCIL MEETING
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE
183 NORTH MAIN STREET
LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA
TiJESDAY, FEBRUARY 24,1998
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CALL TO ORDER
The Regular City Council Meeting was called order by Mayor Pape at 7:04 p.m.
' PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Councilwoman Brinley.
INVOCATION
None.
ROLL CALL
PRESENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: ALONGI, BRINLEY,
' KELLEY, METZE, PAPE
~ ~~ ABSENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: NONE
Also present were: City Manager Watenpaugh, City Attorney Leibold,
Community Development Director Brady, Community Services Director
Sapp, Fire Chief Seabert, Police Chief Walsh, Finance Manager Magee, City
Engineer O'Donnell and City Clerk Kasad.
PRESENTATIONS
Mayor Pape requested an update on any storm related problems over the weekend.
City Manager Watenpaugh indicated that as of this date the Lake is at 1250'
elevation. He detailed recent road closures, but noted that all roads are now
reopened. He advised that two large pepper trees had to be removed in the
downtown area. He detailed the locations where sandbags were provided and
noted that staff is clearing rocks and debris from the roads. He further noted that
Lake crews are removing debris from the Inlet Channel and advised that as of
noon this date, Canyon Lake was flowing at a rate of over two million gallons per
minute, and for every fizture inch of rain there will be an increase of one foot in
Lake Elsinore. (F:92.1)
b. Proclamation - Arbor Dav. (F:122.1)
Mayor Pape noted the presence of the students but absence of the Principal.
Mayor Pape read and presented the proclamation to three students of Terra
'i Cotta Junior High SchooL The Students noted that trees will be planted on
PAGE TWO - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
their campus as part of the Arbor Day festivities.
a. Presentation - Media One. (F:170.5)
Cheryl Smith, General Manager of Media One, addressed the Council
regarding a topic which she considered awkward, but necessary. She stated
that during the last several Council Meetings, on several occasions profanity
has been used and Media One finds this unacceptable. She noted that they
', have a responsibility to their customers to ensure that the content of the
' programs aired on Local Cable Channel3 are free of material which their
customers would deem inappropriate or offensive. She further stated that it
is their opinion that profanity falls into that category. Ms. Smith noted that
additionally the use of profane language can become a problem for the cable
operator, if the use of the language makes the program indecent. She noted
that the Communications Act of 1934 as amended, provides for penalties for
airing incidents and indecent programing. She noted that they take their
responsibilities to their customers very seriously and pride themselves on
providing quality programming via Channel 3 to their customers. She noted
, that they believe their customers should never have to tune in to Channel3
' and hear statements that include profanity. She stated that she is requesting
i a commitment from the City Council this evening, to discontinue the use of
' any type of profanity during the live cable broadcasting of City Council
Meetings. She asked that Council take this request seriously, and indicated
that should there be any future incidents where profanity is used, Media One
will immediately discontinue coverage of the Council Meetings until this
~ issue is resolved. She stated that she would be willing to answer any
questions the Council might have.
Councilman Alongi stated that the United States Supreme Court has a
problem identifying profane language. He noted that the main word in her
report is "indecent" programming and asked for a definition of profanity.
Ms. Smith stated that she could describe what the law describes as indecent,
being any specific reference to sexual or obligatory actions or organs in an
apparently offensive manner as measured by contemporary community
standards for the cable media. Councilman Alongi asked if she had ever
heard that on this program. Ms. Smith stated that there have been some
words that have been used that could fall into this category. She stated that
Media One is not at this Meeting to get into a debate about what profanity
may or tnay not be. Councilman Alongi stated that he feels she is when she
stands before Council and makes statements. Ms. Smith stated that Media
One is here to share their concern as it relates to profane language being
used, and potentially being offensive to their customers. She noted that the
most important issue here, is that Channel3 is their channel; they cablecast
the Meetings live as a courtesy to the City; and they do not want to
jeopardize their programing quality or offend their custoiners. She further
stated that Media One is not here to make any judgement other than to say
PAGE THREE - CITY COiTNCIL MINUTES - MARCH 24,1998
that they feel the situation has the potential for getting out of control and
they would like to see it getting under control, so that neither the Cable
Company nor the City Council is in a compromising position should a
complaint be filed with the
FCC.
Councilman Alongi stated that he thinks that in all fairness Media One
should come to the Council with a report of what Media One considers
' profanity and what the community feels is profanity. Mrs. Smith stated that
she cannot stand at the podium and talk about profanity when she has no
description of profanity. He asked if she considered "hell" and "damn"
profanity. Ms. Smith stated that "hell" is not profanity, however "damn",
' depending on the context can be.
Mayor Pape stated that this is an embarrassing situation for the City, when
we are on the verge of having our City Council Meetings taken off the air
because of swearing and here we are trying to play word games. He stated
that it is ridiculous and asked why anyone would have to ask to have it
explained. He noted that any third grader would know what language is
appropriate and what is inappropriate. He told a story that a parent related
to him of a child in a third grade class at Withrow Elementary during Martin
Luther King's Birthday. He noted that the children were given a project and
that was to complete a sentence "I have a dream°. He stated that it could be
"I have a dream about my community°; "I have a dream about my Country";
"I have a dream about the world", and the parent related to him that the vast
majority of the students in the room used the "I have a dream about my
community". He noted that it wasn't about the parks or schools, but rather
their community and the children's answers were "I have a dream that there
won't be any more bad words". He further noted that right now and in the
past profanity has been used, there are people watching the Council
Meetings to find out what is going on in their community and the children
are there watching the T.V. with them and they start to hear the cussing and
swearing that is going on at the Council Meeting. He commented that you
know that there is a dialogue going on between the parents and children
explaining to them that it is not a good word; not something that you want
to say. Mayor Pape stated that the children are listening to the discussion
that is going on for it to be that clear and that defined in a third grader's
mind. He stated that it is really embarrassing when someone tries to nit-
pick, when anyone viewing this meeting understands that it is not
appropriate to use that language and ruins the decorum of the meeting. He
gave Ms. Smith his personal assurance that he will do what he can to control
it at the meetings. He stated that anyone that comes to the podium or
anyone at this dais that starts to use those kind of words; he will ask the
officer to escort them away and hopefully they can conduct themselves in a
more professional manner the next time they come to the meeting.
PAGE FOUR - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
Councilwoman Brinley stated that she felt that Council received a polite and
professional warning from Media One. She noted that if this conduct does
not stop then the Meetings will be taken off the air. He further stated that
she felt that it was a horrible thing to have happen to the community,
because this is their source to be informed about what is happening in the
City.
Councilwoman Brinley stated that she was sure that Councilman Alongi
knows what swearing is and what is acceptable. She noted that there has
probably been language he has used in Council meetings that he would not
use with his own children, grandchildren or wife. She commented that she
was sure if he conducts himself as a gentleman at home, then he can
conduct himself in the same manner here so our constituents will not suffer
from this point on. She stated her concerns, and noted that her
understanding of this warning, is that Council has been sitting at the dias for
the last three years and received chastisement for things that Councilman
Alongi has done and continues to do. She stated that she will respect Media
One's request and abide by it and conduct herself in a professional manner,
however she feels that the rest of Council should put the shoulder of blame
where it really belongs instead of casting aspersions on the rest of Council
who conduct themselves in a professional manner at all times. She stated
that it is important that the Council conduct themselves well from this point
on because the Council Meetings are the citizens greatest resource to keep
the community informed.
Ms. Smith clarified that Media One's intent is not to chastise the Council as
a whole or as individuals. She stated that her Company sees this as a
Council issue and that is why they felt compelled to approach Council. She
reiterated Media One's responsibility to their customers and their legal
obligations,and exposures. She assured Council that this was not a decision
that was made easily and was discussed many times over within the
organization with the benefit of their Legal Counsel. She explained that
their concern is that there have been instances of profanity used at the
Council Meeting and stated that she felt that things could get out of control
and get worse. She stated that she does not personally think that the City
Council as a body or an individual wants to be in that position. She further
explained that it is not their intent to chastise anyone or pass moral
judgment on anyone as it relates to this issue, however Media One has a
commitment for responsibility as to what goes over the air on Channel3
which is their community programing channel.
Councilwoman Brinley stated that she respects that and will abide by the
mandate this evening. She further stated that what she was trying to clarify
was where this problem is coming from and not regarding what you said
and how the Meeting should be conducted from this point on.
PAGE FIVE - CITY COiTNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that Council has a policy that directs the
decorum during Council Meetings and at this point she feels that it is
absolutely ludicrous that Council has to reduce themselves down to a debate
on what is appropriate and what is not appropriate regarding single words or
phases, since Council knows what is acceptable. She stressed that this
community deserves respect and she personally takes Media One's warning
very seriously and commented that she understood their fear of legal
exposure.
Mayor Pape stated that the First Amendment doesn't imply that because you
can say something, it is the right thing to say. Ms. Smith confirmed that
just because the First Amendment gives people the right to say what they
wish, doesn't mean that Media One has to retransmit it. She noted that is
the issue and Council can say anything that they want since she is the
biggest supporter of the First Amendment, however she does have an
obligation that she takes very seriously to her 76,000 customers of which
26,000 reside in this area. She explained that they have never faced this
situation before. She stated that she did not want to get involved with
arguing and debating over words, however she can assure Council that if the
language is inappropriate in nature and if it is profanity they will pull the
plug on Council Meetings. Ms. Smith stressed that she is not saying that to
be threatening at all, she is saying this because she means what she said
about Media One's responsibility. She explained that should it happen,
action will be taken immediately and the camera operator will notify
Council that the Meeting is off the air; he will disassemble the equipment;
and Media One will not come back until Council resolves the situation. She
stressed how serious this situation is.
Mayor Pape stated that it is unfortunate that Ms. Smith had to take this
action and stressed how embarrassing it is.
Linda Nanetti, 16293 Cimarron Road, addressed the entire cable
programing and stated that all the channels are viewed by the children,
parents, little league players and coaches. She explained that she has been a
playground supervisor and the language used by the children at age five
through seven was profane. She stressed that the children were hearing this
language at home and not from their teachers; and stated that if the public is
disgruntled from the adults on Council they should examine themselves.
She noted that children are not watching the Council Meetings, the parents
are and perhaps they are using incorrect language as well. Councilman
Alongi suggested that Ms. Nanetti should leave the podium. She stressed
that people should not point the finger at T.V., but rather they should look at
what is being said at home.
~ Mayor Pape questioned whether the public would like to stoop down into
', the gutter like everyone else, or do we want to try and lift them up and
PAGE SIX - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
improve standards. He stressed that just because someone else does it,
doesnUTinake it right. Councilman Metze concurred. Councilwoman
Brinley stressed that Council is supposed to set a standard.
PUBLIC COMMENTS - AGENDIZED ITEMS
Requests were received to address the following items and deferred to those
discussions:
Item Nos. a, 31, 32, 33 and 34.
CONSENT CALENDAR ITEMS
The following items were pulled from the Consent Calendar for further discussion
and consideration:
Item Nos. l.a., l.b., 3 and 4.
MOVED BY METZE, SECONDED BY ALONGI AND CARRIED BY
UNANIlVIOUS VOTE TO APPROVE THE BALANCE OF THE CONSENT
CALENDAR AS PRESENTED.
L The following Minutes were received and ordered filed:
c. Planning Commission Meeting - February 4, 1998. (F:603)
d. Design Review Committee Meeting - February 4, 1998. (F:60.4)
2. Ratified Warrant List for February 13, 1998. (F:123)
BUSINESS ITEMS
31. Second Readin~ - Ordinance No. 1035 - relatin~ to Adoption to the East
~ Lake Specific Plan, Amendment No. 1. (F:150.2)
City Manager Watenpaugh highlighted this item.
MOVED BY BRINLEY, SECONDED BY ALONGI TO ADOPT
ORDINANCE N0.1035, UPON SECOND READING BY TITLE ONLY:
Ken Howard, 17540 Grand Avenue, addressed what was said about bad
language, and questioned what the media would do when they catch the
Council in lies. He indicated that he was looking at one who has lied and
read a letter from the Department of the Interiar concerning Eastlake and a
' four foot pipeline through the levee. He further indicated that this pipeline
has never been opened up by the City or the Water District. He questioned
what steps will be taken to prevent the potential of flooding. He further
PAGE SEVEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
questioned the increased level of the Lake and the time frame for further
increases. He asked about the outflow channel and what will happen if the
pipeline to the Eastlake floodplain is not opened. He noted that the Water
District has sent out a flier stating that when the water reaches 1255'
elevation, water will flow through Nichols Canyon, and inquired if that was
correct. He noted the impact of the water level on his tennis court and
indicated that lies are being scattered around by the people in charge.
Pete Dawson, 18010 Grand Avenue, noted that he is happy water is coming
into the Lake and we are not paying for it. He noted his past comments on
~i the floodplain and fault zone in the Eastlake area; and quoted scriptures
regarding the rain and floods.
ORDINANCE N0.1035
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ~
LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA, ADOPTING THE EAST LAKE
SPECIFIC PLAN.
UPON THE FOLLOWING ROLL CALL VOTE:
AYES: COUNCILMEMBERS: ALONGI, BRINLEY, KELLEY,
~ METZE, PAPE
NOES: COUNCILMEMBERS: NONE
ABSENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: NONE
, ABSTAIN: COUNCILMEMBERS: NONE
32. Library Fundine & Ownershi~. (F:98.1)
City Manager Watenpaugh noted that the request before Council is to
formalize the discussions which have been taking place between City and
County staffs in a cooperative effort to purchase and renovate a new library
facility. He explained that the City had discussed with the Supervisor's
office that if the County were willing to front money then the City would be
willing to participate with the library fees that have been collected in a
Capital Fund through development to support repayments and renovations
of the library. He stated that staff recommends Council approval to expend
the Library Funds in the amount of $155,000; hire an architect to develop
the plans and specifications for the interior and removal of doors on vaults;
and clarify ownership of the facility to allow staff to finalize the necessary
agreements with the County.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that it is a real pleasure to see this item on the
PAGE EIGHT --CITY COUNCIL MdNiJTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
Agenda and noted that this idea was Mr. Trotter's idea and this offers the
opportunity for a better library in the City. She noted the problems with the
' current library and encouraged Council to own the building. She noted that
no one knows what the future will bring and ownership would guarantee
City control of the Library. She suggested if Council wishes to own the
building, they appoint City Manager Watenpaugh as the person to negotiate
with the Council for all future business regarding the Library. She noted the
improvements that must be done befare the Wells Fargo Bank Building is
', ready for occupancy.
Councilwoman Brinley inquired if the library will allow Wells Fargo Bank
to maintain the A.T.M. at that site. Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that it is
her understanding that the walk-up A.T.M. will be maintained on site,
however the drive-thru will not remain on site and those facilities will be
converted into book return drops. She commented on the smaller building
in the back of Wells Fargo that can be utilized for community meetings.
Mayor Pape stated that it would be nice to have a meeting room of inedium
size for group use. He noted that is one thing lacking in the community.
', 7ames Gray, 15159 Mimosa Drive, noted that at the Meeting held by the
Council they voted to purchase the Wells Fargo Building and now they
want to sell it to the City so we can spend $150,000 to upgrade the building
to meet the American's with Disabilities Act. He stated that moving the
Library is a good thing and having a place for the Detective Bureau right
next to the Riverside County Sub Station is a good thing, however the one
, thing that is bad about this action is timing. He noted the fences around the
~ parks and stressed that there is no West End Fire Station and asked how
' Council could consider this action under the circumstances. He stressed
that we should let the County spend the $150,000 and say no-sale, thank
you, however it should be a case of we will rent from you if you rent from
us. He further stressed that it would be a smart thing to do and we would be
ahead of the game for it.
Dick Knapp, City Treasurer, asked why Wells Fargo is pulling the drive-
thru out since it would be very convenient to have a boolc drop on one side
and an A.T.M. on the other side. He stated that he has reviewed the
requirements of the proj ect and questioned the removal of the formal
entryway and vault doors. He stressed that the City could utilize the vault
and save the e~ra cost. Mr. Knapp gave a further overview of the items
required and questioned the necessity. He stated that due to the cost he felt
that we should lea~e it with the County and stated that if this is a staff
recommendation, then we should get rid of this staff and get a new staf£ He
stressed that he would like his Wells Fargo rights protected.
Mayor Pape stated that much as the Council would like to, they do not have
control over Wells Fargo and they are private enterprise, Mayor Pape asked
PAGE NINE - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
the City Manager to clarify the expenditure of the money.
City Manager Watenpaugh explained the use of Capital Funds and stressed
that they can only be used for what has been specified. He noted that the
money cannot be used for operations and maintenance. He further
explained that this has been a cooperative effort and the City could not do it
by themselves nor could the County, however by working together it will
make it possible to better serve both the City and the County area residents.
He addressed the requirements and stated that it is a non-discretionary
situation and the City must comply just as everyone else does.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley explained that this is a win/win for the City and the
County area residents. She stressed that by moving to a larger buiiding it
increases the ability to reach people and provide service. She noted that
there is no loosing side to this issue.
Mayor Pape gave an overview of the positive aspects of the entire situation
and concurred with Mayor Pro Tem Kelley that it is a win/win situation.
Councilwoman Brinley stressed the point that the money cannot be spent on
other project since it was collected for the Library and must be used in that
manner. She stated that the Library will be staffed by L.S.I.
Councilman Alongi stated that he does not disagree that the City needs a
new Library. He asked if the City does not move forward and since the
County has bought the building, will the County then move in and refurbish
the building and put it in the order needed for a Library. City Manager
Watenpaugh stated that it is his understanding that they would not.
Councilman Alongi asked if the City has received a bid on all of the items
and if the $155,000 won't reach it, where will the City get the funds to
complete it. He stressed that it is a very extensive list that is required and
very expensive. He noted that he does not feel that $155,000 will not come
close to doing the work that is required. He suggested that the City utilize
the vault since the City needs another place for archives. He stated that if it
is just venting, it is cheeper to core the vault and utilize the vault for rare
books in case of a fire. He asked why we would not want to use it since
fitting custom doors would cost so much and coring for ventilation would
onYy be a few hundred dollars. He stated that he is not opposing the
Library, however he is trying to find a way that the City doesn't get
themselves into this and find that there is a need for $200,000 more to
complete the project. City Manager Watenpaugh clarified that staff has
received an estimate from the County for the wark and he purposefully did
not put the dollar amounts in the staff report because he did not want that to
be a fixed dollar amount. He gave an overview of the City's obligation and
stated that the City has only committed to the $155,000 for renovations. He
addressed the vaults and stated that the recommendation was to either weld
PAGE TEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
the vault doors open or remove them, comes from the L.S.I. staff to address
safety issues and allow them to utilize the area for staff space. He noted
' that has not been finalized at this point.
Councilman Metze concurred with Mayor Pro Tem Kelley.
MOVED BY ALONGI, SECONDED BY BRINLEY AND CARRIED BY
UNANIMOUS VOTE TO APPROVE THE EXPENDITURE OF THE
, LIBRARY CAPITAL FUNDS TO PREPARE THE NECESSARY PLANS
AND RENOVATIONS TO THE WELLS FARGO BANK FACILITY AS A
NEW LIBRARY FOR THE LAKE ELSINORE RESIDENTS AND
SLIRROUNDING COMMUNITY AND DIRECT STAFF TO FINALIZE
THE NECESSARY AGREEMENTS WITH THE COUNTY.
33. West End Fire Station - Requested by Councilman Alonei. (F:127.3)
City Manager Watenpaugh gave an overview of the West End Fire Station
and noted that while funds are available to construct the fire station the City
' currently has no funds allocated for maintenance and operation of the
, facility. He explained that the Council has taken the issue before the voters
j twice and though that action it indicated that the voters did not want to be
assessed additional dollars to implement this action. He further explained
that to operate the station on a volunteer basis, it would cost the City
approximately $250,000 per year and to have a manned fully paid staff
would cost approximately $500,000 per year and upon information from the
Riverside County Fire and California Department of Forestry based on the
number of calls in that area it was recommended that there be paid staff
coverage augmented with volunteers. He further noted the City's efforts to
reach financial stability through the financial plan and indicated when the
City reaches a point where the Fire Department tells the City that the
number of calls mandates a fire station on the West End then Council will
be in a position to direct staff to find the money. City Manager Watenpaugh
stated that we have not reached that point as yet. He noted that the Fire
Department has indicated that there is a need for eight staff when the West
End Fire Station is built due to the projected demand for service on a 24
hour basis and not for just the period when volunteers are available.
Riverside County Fire Chief Jim Wright gave an overview of the history of
the West End Fire Station discussions and noted that a fully staffed fire
station entails a staffing standard of two paid persons on duty seven days a
week, twenty-four hours a day, augmented by a volunteer fire company. He
explained that they based that on the knowledge the projected responses that
the West End would have. He noted that the current responses have been
have been handled by the Lake Elsinore and Lakeland Village Fire Stations
and have amounted to 1,200 calls in the last year. He stressed that this
amount of calls would tax a volunteer fire company and create a situation
PAGE ELEVEN - CITY COiTNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
where they would not be able to handle a response load of that amount. He
further stressed that once the facility was built that the community would
expect a rapid response from that facility and noted all the difficulties that
would be encountered to implement that expectation. Chief Wright stated
that based on all the information and projected factors it is recommended
that the City staff a West End Fire Station with two fully paid fire fighters
twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, backed up by a volunteer fire
company. He noted that they have an excellent volunteer fire fighter
program and they are very proud of them.
Mayor Pape called on the persons who have requested to address this issue
as follows:
Chris Hyland, 15191 Wavecrest Drive, noted that this issue has been
addressed for years and there is a need for a fire station on the west end of
the City. She asked if it would not be favorable to build the fire station
since the City has the money and indicated that she would like to see a bank
statement that shows that the City does have the money to show that the
City actually has the money and not just a piece of paper that just says that
you have it in the amount of $776,192.19. He noted that she has a question
about the money since she feels that the City is hedging and noted that
while the cost of building is down, now is when it should be built. She
stressed that the City seems to have money to address the Library and other
projects, but not this facility. She stressed now is the time to address the
Fire Station.
James Grray, 15159 Mimosa Drive, noted the lease of the Diamond Stadium
and the money saved as a result of that action. He stated that he felt that the
money saved has been wasted. He noted that the City has proposed to
address the parks, however if a child is injured while playing who is going
to respond and how long will it take. He noted that the City has the right to
make a choice between the parks and Fire/Emergency protection by
building and staffing the West End Fire Station. He stressed that the City
build the West End Fire Station with the $776,000 that we already have and
staff the station with volunteers. He noted that with the money we save by
staffing with volunteers the City can afford to keep the parks open at the
current operating levels and allow the City to have the best part of both. He
cautioned Council that when they think about the children, really think
about the children and what is really best for them.
Linda Nanetti, 16293 Cimarron Road, produced her CC & R's and noted the
fire protection stated in that document. She noted that when she first moved
to Lake Elsinore she was in the County and then annexed to the City. She
stated that the City wants more, however can give less. She further noted
~ the proposed Liberty Development and the increased draw it wili put on
current services. She asked what is going to happen to the Terra Cotta area
PAGE TWELVE - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
and how will this impact them. She noted the need for personal first aid
training in order to save lives due to the lack of service. She asked that a
fire station be addressed for the protection needed by the residences in that
area.
Ken Howard, Lakeland Village, noted the traffic at Riverside Drive and
Lincoln and noted the excess amount to time it will take for Fire Trucks to
respond to the Machado area due to that factor. He asked if there are calls
in that area, then what is Lakeland Village going to do if they have a fire.
He urged the Council to build the West End Fire Station and will pay for
itself by not having trucks respond from Lakeland Village in getting from
one end of town to the other.
Ace Vallejos, 15231 Cobre, commented that when he moved to Lake
Elsinore none of the development was in existence and noted that now the
whole west end has developed, fire protection was not mitigated and has
still not been mitigated. He stated that the City is suppose to provide
services, just as well as the County does, and they are suppose to work
cooperatively in order to take care of the people and their safety. He further
noted that the response time is approximately 10 to 15 minutes and if there
were two fires at the same time he felt that it could be a very serious
problem. He stressed that the County Fire resources have had to be shared
with all of the new people that have moved into the City and nothing has
been done to take care of the safety concerns of the all the people. Mr.
Vallejos stressed his concerns for the safety for all the citizens in the
Community. He stated that as far a Volunteer Fire Services are concerned,
he would volunteer and he feels that he is qualified to do so.
Earl Doyle, commented that he has lived in Lake Elsinore 10 years and has
been waitir~g 8 years for a Fire Station. He noted that he was at the March
30, 1990, meeting where Washburn, Winkler, Molendyk, all the other
Council and a Fire Chief were present that promised that before the first 50
houses were built in Community Facilities District 88-3 they would start
construction on a Fire Station. He stressed that he is still waiting and all he
has received is B.S. from all the Council except from Councilman Alongi
and he is the only one who has been honest. Mr. Doyle stated that last year
the City spent $1,300,000 on dead beat projects; $500,000 to pay off some
developer on the other side of the free-way which would have staff the Fire
Station for a year; $800,000 on other projects that were out of our General
Fund and the public should not be paying all of these fees out of our
General Fund. He stressed that the City owes the citizens a Fire Station and
noted a survey that was taken of 23 other cities and police, fire, public
works and parks were the first four things that were cited without
assessments. He again stressed that Council owes the residents the Fire
Station and stated that if Council invests in a Library before they build a
Fire Station, then he is going to encourage all the people that live in the
PAGE THIRTEEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
Community Facilities District 88-3 to form a class action suit and get the
Fire Station. He stated that he has called Sacramento and received very
good information and feels that this is the road they will have to take.
Mayor Pape asked that Chief Wright address the comments regarding the
number of calls and response times as well as the other questions that were
posed.
Chief Wright indicated that the number of calls that were received in the last
calendar year were 1,200 plus calls and noted that with the inflation of calls
annually the service demand will be increasing. He addressed response
times for the two primary stations that are responding in the area as well as
factoring in the proposed station. He gave an example of times involved as
follows: Cross street of Lincoln and Machado from Station 10 which is 3.7
miles and the response time 3.7 minutes; the Lakeland Village Fire Station
which is 5 miles takes 10 minutes; Nichols and Interstate 15, the Elsinore
Fire Station which is 3.8 miles which takes 7 minutes, Lakeland Village
Fire Station which is 7.7 miles with a 15 minute response time. He noted
that their response times are based on 2 minutes per mile and traffic
congestion is factored in on their response times and this is fairly accurate.
He stressed that they do not only have to provide safety to the public, but
also to the fire fighters who are responding to emergency incidents. Chief
Wright addressed that the utilization of the Fire Station in Lake Elsinore and
Lakeland Village and explained that the Riverside County Fire Department
operates a Regional Integrated Fire Protection System. He explained that
this means that the public has the benefit and luxury of blending several
layers of government, which in this instance include the State of California
Department of Forestry based at the Lake Elsinore Station; County of
Riverside based at the Lakeland Village Station; and the Elsinare Fire
Services providing fire services out of the Lake Elsinore Fire Station. He
noted that this integrated service moves all around and does not worry about
boundaries, City Limits, etc. He indicated that it is one of the best programs
and is a model for fire protection systems in the State. He noted that we are
very fortunate to have this program here. He explained that by adding an
additional Fire Station it will enhance the Regional System for the Elsinore
Valley.
Mayor Pape asked for clarification regarding the ambulance service which
is contracted through the Fire Department. Chief Wright concurred. He
stated that the Paramedic Ambulance Services are provided by American
Medical Response (AMR) which is a private company which provides the
service and they are regulated through the County Emergency Medical
Services/Department of Health. He indicated they have the operating area
of the Southwest Zone as well as throughout the rest of the County.
Councilman Metze clarified that they are located at Riverside Drive and
Lakeshore. Chief Wright concurred.
PAGE FOURTEEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
Mayor Pape stressed that the dollars allocated for the Library can only be
used for Capital Funds for the Library and cannot be used to staff the Fire
Station.
Councilman Alongi apologized to Chief Wright and stated that it is difficult
to question someone of your authority. He stated that he does know that
Chief Wright would not reach the level of his achievement if he was not
qualified in the area of Fire Protection. He indicated that the City was going
to put a temporary Fire Station at the corner of Machado and Lincoln for a
one engine Fire Station and move an ambulance service there, as well as
moving two men from Station 10. He asked if there was any difference
from moving two personnel from that location to the new site. Chief
Wright noted that currently the City of Lake Elsinore funds a three person
Engine Company out of Station 10, based on the 1990 City of Lake Elsinore
Fire Protection Master Plan study. He noted that one of the
recommendation of the study was for the City to increase, from a two man
Engine Company to a three man Engine Company and the City did that
right after the master plan was received by the City. He explained that since
then, through working with the City to make the West End Fire Station
work, it was recommended that the City reduce the Engine Company
staffing level at Station 10 and redirect the third Fire Fighter position to the
West End and adding an other staff inember to make the West End a two
person Engine Company. He stressed that it would not be taking two
people from Station 10, it would rather be taking one person and adding
additional staff to make a two person Engine Company. He noted that it
would drop the cost since the City is already paying for the third person at
Station 10 and would be adding only one new person. Councilman Alongi
asked if the City went to a full staff Fire Station, then the City would only
be looking at one more full time staff person at the West End. Chief Wright
stated that is incorrect since Fire Fighters are paid for a three day shift and
four days off, therefore for seven day a week coverage there is a need for
three bodies. Councilman Alongi asked if Chief Wright has ever
recommended an all volunteer station. Chief Wright noted that in 1992, the
City Council was given information regarding all volunteers and full paid
staff scenarios to allow an appropriate decision. He explained that the City
Council must choose your level for Fire Services. He stated that when he
met with Councilman Alongi recently the statement that he made was that it
was his responsibility to inform Council of all of the professional and
technical information so that if the City went with an all Volunteer Fire
Department that in the event of an emergency incident and Volunteer
response was late or it didn't even cover it, you will have citizens calling
you and myself. He stated that he wanted to be sure that everyone is
informed up front and that there is no expectations and that the community
knows it as well. He explained that if the Fire Station is built and it is all
Volunteer it may not be responding every call. Councilman Alongi stated
that he understands that and he thinlcs that the constituents understand that
PAGE FIFTEEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
as well and asked Chief Wright if he opposed a Volunteer Fire Station and
noted that Chief Wright recommends a fully staffed Fire Station and he
respects that. He explained that he would like the best, however he cannot
afford the best so he will take what he can get. He asked if it was an
accurate stated that Chief Wright does not oppose a Volunteer Fire Station
if that is the only thing that the City could provide. Chief Wright concurred.
Councilman Alongi clarified that the Volunteer Fire Fighter would be
trained to operate a new Fire Engine that the County would provide and the
, County would also train those persons to run the Station on a Volunteer
basis. Chief Wright concurred. Councilman Alongi stated that he would
not be so adamant in supporting the Fire Station if the pervious Council and
this Council did not spend our tax dollars in areas in which they spent it.
He stressed that public safety is the City's most important asset that the
Council should attain. He noted that it is not providing ball games for out
of town visitors at the tune of $500,000 a year. The ball field itself, over a
four year period has eaten up well over $3 million dollars of the public's
taxes, right out of the General Fund. He stated that during the last couple of
years the City has taken approximately $600,000 to pay some dead beat
contractor's bills which could have gone to man the Fire Station. He noted
that the money was borrowed from the Redevelopment Agency to pay those
bills and that was done to go $5 million dollars deeper in debt. He noted
that it was applied to a$10 million dollar loan that the City borrowed that
could not be paid in the first place, hoping three years down the road that
I the City would have the money to make the payment. He further noted that
the City then took $140,000 from the Reserves again and fenced off the
parks; then came back two weeks later and took $50,000 from the General
Fund to put in the parks; then the City came back and matched the $25,000
' funds to apply to the parks; then the City came back and took some more
I money; then subsidized a movie theater $100,000 a year-plus right out of
your pockeis; then subsidize the Lake right out of your pockets.
Councilman Alongi stated that he would not be fighting for that Fire Station
if all that was not done. He stated that the City seems to find money
whether from the Reserves or other sources to provide to do the things other
~ than to provide public safety and provide services in this community. He
noted that the City has well over $2 million in Reserves and right now is the
best time to build the Fire Station because of building costs. He stressed
that the City does not have to build the Fire Station that was designed for
that area since the County would provide us with their plans and it would
' only need to be recertified by an Engineer. He further noted that would be
I money saved as well as the Fire Truck being free and it would only cost
$200,000 to man it with volunteers. He stated that he would like to have a
full time Fire Department as well and explained that he came to Lake
Elsinore in 1962 and there were 5,700 people when he moved here and the
only Fire Station was on Graham. He stated that the City has grown to
26,000 and the only other Fire Station which is mostly volunteers, is in
li Lakeland Village and that is not keeping up with public safety. He stated
PAGE SIXTEEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24;1998
that parks are important, but if the City can commit half of the $500,000
which the City has not received yet, Council could certainly take part of that
money and put it toward maintaining the Fire Station. He further stated that
the Council could also get the Emergency Services that is contracted to put
an ambulance in that building as well which would address the security of
the building and they would be more than happy to move to that end of the
Lake. Councilman Alongi stated that he has response times from different
stations within our area and asked if the desired response time is 7 minutes.
Chief Wright stated that they would like to see a response time from 5 to 7
minutes which is based on emergency medical care which has a window of
4 to 6 minutes. He explained that it is based on the fact that when breathing
stops. Councilman Alongi stated that when it is a 15 or an 18 minute
xesponse the person is dead. Chief Wright concurred. Councilman Alongi
stated that it is a very dangerous situation that the Council puts the public
in. He noted that it is not the Fire Chief s fault; not the County's fault; not
the policeman's fault; it is the Council's fault. He noted the amount of calls
the area stations receive from 1989 to present in Station 10 are as follows:
1989 - 210 fire calls with 124 false alarms and 1,562 medical aid; 1996 -
413 fire calls with 191 false alarms and 1,757 medical calls; January 1
through August 31, 1997 - 172 fire calls with 105 false alarms and 1,097
medical calls. He stated that at Station 10 in 1996, 74% of the calls were
medical calls and noted that the residents are doing a pretty good job of
preventing fires in our community. He further noted that at Station 11 it
was 76% for medical aids. He noted that in 1997, Station 10 had 76% and
Station 11 75% in medical aid. He stressed that it is not just fire that is
being discussed, but medical aid. He stated that what is being discussed is a
child choking or someone having a heat attack. He noted that the
ambulance will respond to those. He read an article which stated that 75%
of Fire Fighters are volunteers in the United States which is a total estimate
of 1,730,600 Volunteer and paid Fire Fighters across this country of which
807,000 are Volunteers. He gave an overview of the article giving listing all
of the various fire services. He noted that it is not unusual to have
Volunteer Fire Stations and in fact one of the Fire Stations in the County
moved from paid personnel to volunteer. Councilman Alongi noted a letter
that he has from a Fireman who is a Lieutenant that he trusts and knows
very well, talking about Volunteer Fire Stations. He indicated that the letter
says that even though the West End Fire Station could first be staffed with
volunteers, that with the current level of the West End local protection
which is "0", it is easy to see how 80%, 70%, 50% or even 40% would be
better than nothing. Councilman Alongi stated that the Council has now
approved East Lake and there is not a fire station around there, unless there
is one built in the second phase as well as Summer Lalce which could start
up again as well as Tuscany Hills with no fire station there as well. He
stated that Council's responsibility is public safety and not the savings
business. He stressed that it is not Council's job to build the City's savings
account. He further stressed that the community wants the Fire Station; the
PAGE SEVENTEEN - CITY COiTNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
City charged them for it; the City collected the fees for a Fire Station which
were added to the cost of the house plus the assessments and the people are
paying for it. He stated that the Fire Station should be built today. He
further stated that it would take 18 months to build it and the Fire Chief 18
months to train the people that will be in that Fire Station. He noted the
people would realize that the people would realize that it is a Volunteer Fire
Station and not be upset about it. Councilman Alongi stated that based on
the figures it is the medical services that is more important in that area. He
noted that in the letter it is stated that approximately 80% of the calls to the
West End Fire Station would be emergency medical calls. He stated that
this is not for him since he has a Fire Station right around the corner and can
be at his home in less than 2 minutes and it is the same with a Police,
however the people at the West End of the Lake will need to take their
children to the hospital because the medical aid will not get there quick
enough. He noted that the letter he has been reading is from a reputable
Volunteer Fireman who has been on the job for the last 18 years. He noted
that the letter stated that it would be logical and efficient to have Good-Hue
Ambulance move into the new station which would provide station security
and a form of station staffing when volunteers are not present. He stressed
that he would not argue with this Council. He noted that he has stated the
facts and appreciates where Chief Wright is coming from. He commented
that he has several members of his family that are firemen and he
understands Chief Wright's concern and the fact that he wants to provide us
with the best type of coverage that we can afford, however in this instance
the City has decided to take iYs money and squander it in other areas which
remove us from public safety. He stated that he felt that Council should be
just as concerned about public safety as we are about a library. He stressed
that Council's concern is about playing ball and taking fences down around
parks.
Chief Wright addressed construction costs that Councilman Alongi
mentioned. He stated that in the early days of this project the City was
presented with a fire station design, that after it was looked at and evaluated
that had a construction cost of over $900,000. He noted that when the Fire
Department saw that, they came to the City and offered to help. He further
noted that the County offered their standard fire station design since the
plans were already done. He further stated that they took one of the
Councilmembers to see the fire station and their intent was to help the City
save money in the construction of the station. He stressed that the option is
still out there. He commented on the fire apparatus and noted that the
County's contribution to this project was to make a Fire Engine available
from their fleet to place in this Fire Station since the County knew the
expense on the City to place a Fire Engine in that Station. He noted the
discussion regarding Volunteer Fire Fighters and explained that Volunteers
do go back to the early days of Benjamin Franklin, and it is still volunteer in
the Eastern United States, however in California, especially in Southern
PAGE EIGHTEEN = CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
California there are not many true Volunteer Fire Departments left due to
population levels of demand, etc. Chief Wright stated that Riverside
County Fire Department utilize Volunteer Fire Companies throughout the
County and they have approximately 1,200 Volunteers serving various areas
in the County. He noted that of the 84 Stations, County wide they have a
total of 12 Fire Stations that are Volunteer staf£ He noted that those Fire
Stations are located in rural areas such as Rancho Carillo, Rancho
Capistrano, Colorado River, River Bend at Lost Lake and the one that
Councilman Alongi mentioned that converted to all Volunteers is causing a
problem now through time it has become difficult far them to provide
response time for the community. He explained that due to the fall-off in
Volunteers the community had to relay on a neighboring City to provide
service and now that City has informed the County of the impact it has
caused them. He further explained that he is now faced with going to the
County Board of Supervisors to obtain funding to put paid staff back into
that Fire Station due to the demand levels. He stressed that Riverside
County Fire Department is very pleased with their Volunteer Fire
Companies and thank them for the tremendous amount of time and effort
that these individuals give to their community. He explained the amount of
time necessary to go through the required training which is the same in
service training that the paid personnel receive to facilitate interaction on
site is tremendous. He listed the amount of training necessary. He stated
that it is getting harder and harder to maintain that type of personnel
because Volunteers are members of the community and have to work and
provide a living far their families. He explained that there is only so much
time that a person can give.
Mayor Pape thanked Chief Wright for attending the Council Meeting and
noted that this is an emotional issue for a lot of the residents. He noted that
it entails a great deal of money and must be looked at logically to review all
of the options. He noted that the first option is to look at an all paid staff,
seven days a week supplemented by Volunteer and noted that the cost is
approximately $500,000 each and every year to the City. He stated to incur
that additional cost the City then needs to target ar ear-mark some
additional or new revenue sources to be able to make that expense every
year. He noted that the City does not have any new revenue source that can
be tapped into to address this. He commented on the suggestion to spend
the money out of reserves, however the City has just over $2 million and is
available for any potential unexpected expense that the City must incur that
is not budgeted for each and every year. Mayor Pape noted that at $500,000
a year, in four years the City's savings is completely wiped out and there
would be no more money, therefore if anything happened that was not
budgeted for such as a big storm and staff is needed to address emergencies
the money would not be there to pay them. He noted that the Council and
community made the effort to create additional revenue sources with
Measure SS and it failed. He stated that the other option is an all Volunteer
PAGE NINETEEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
Station and Volunteer does not mean free since it will cost approximately
$150,000 a year to operate the Station and again this would be spending
money without a new revenue source and spending money that the City
does not have. Mayor Pape noted Chief Wright's comments regarding the
fact that Volunteers are a great supplement to the paid full time staff,
however the community will be disappointed if they relay on Volunteers
100%, because they do have other jobs, families, and other commitments.
He commented that he was sure that there would be a lot of people available
' on Saturday and Sunday, however it is going to be very difficult Monday
through Friday to staff an all Volunteer Station. He noted the experience
~ that the County has had and read an article from the January 23, 1998, Press
Enterprise which states no cash, no staff. He explained that the different
areas had the money to build the Fire Stations, however they had no money
to staff them and now they sit empty. He asked if the citizens of this
community want to duplicate that type of problem. He explained that as the
, City starts to see new revenues in the future with the boost in the economy,
the City can then take that money and allocate it to staff a Fire Station. He
stated that Council should learn from the mistakes that have been made
before which is "don't build it until you can pay for it". He stated that when
' the funds become available, then the Fire Station can be built and the City
can staff it properly. He noted the need, however the Fire Department's
professional and technical recommendation is that the City work toward
being able to provide a Station that has full time paid personnel on site. He
stressed that all the Members sitting on Council hear emotional issues,
however when it comes time to make a decision on them they must follow
what the experts advise. He asked if the community wanted them to base
their decisions on the facts that the experts present to them or on a political
basis and that is what Council is faced with right now. He noted that this
issue has been addressed at a Study Session and now it is being brought
back so people can grand stand a little bit, therefore Council must be patient
and go through the process, however this issue does have a benefit to the
community so that everyone can understand what is going on. He noted the
financial situation that the City is in and although it is a priority it must wait
until new revenues become available and then it can be addressed. He
explained that the City's goals are to add more police, do the Fire Station
with staff, bring back the parks, do some repaving on streets. He explained
that there are a lot of things that must be done and the Council will have to
take them one at a time as money allows.
Councilwoman Brinley stated that she felt that Chief Wright made a good
point when he stated that Volunteer Stations are effective when there is a
population of 10,000 or less. She noted that Lake Elsinore has a population
of approximately 28,000. She clarified the response times that were
addressed and asked if this falls within the guidelines that address the health
~ and safety of a community of 28,000. Chief Wright stated the information
~ came from a Volunteer Informational Guide and is based on a Nation Wide
PAGE TWENTY - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
Application average. He further stated that response times are based on 2
minutes a mile and includes all the factors that would influence responding
to an incident. He responded to the questioned regarding criteria and
explained that the County Fire Department in it's Master Plan relies on the
planning levels of heavy urban, urban and rural and out-lying areas. He
noted that based upon those categories is that time responses are set as goals
and in this the City is classified as urban and that is what should be strived
for. He further noted the City's Fire Protection Master Plan also parallels
the County's Master Plan by meeting those criteria. He explained that the
need for that, using the fire response as an example, is that to meet and
urban level of fire protection services the Master Plan will dictate that at a
first alarm assignment would be required to arrive and have suppression
efforts underway within 10 minutes which is the goals that they set.
Councilwoman Brinley asked about the training for volunteers and the cost
that would have to be met by the City. Chief Wright stated that it would
refer to the service delivery cost which would be the $250,000 that is what it
costs the Fire Department to maintain a Volunteer Fire Company which
includes the training, training material and everything that makes the Fire
Station work. He noted that just the required safety for each Volunteer
would cost approximately $1,500 to $1,800 that must be provided. He
further noted the Workers Compensation Coverage that is required,
therefore all of the service delivery costs would cover all of the items
associated with a Volunteer Fire Company operation. Councilwoman
Brinley clarified that the developers building new homes would have to
meet with the Fire Department to mitigate any concerns regarding fire
protection and noted that they cannot build houses without your approval.
Chief Wright concurred. He noted that when a developer come to a city or
county area, the planning process opens up the project for review by all of
the affected agencies. He gave an overview of the review procedure. He
explained t~at with planning process, an agreement can be entered into to
augment mitigation efforts to meet service level demands. Councilwoman
Brinley noted that the City and County are doing a joint effort to address
operations and maintenance for the West End and explained that since
County has had financial problems they cannot participate and now the City
must try to figure a way to provide the costs of operations and maintenance.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that she just wanted to emphasize that the
Library dollars only go for the Library and cannot go for a fire station. She
noted that it was mentioned that the City has done many things in the past
that did not have a revenue stream to accommodate and it is a pit that this
Council has been trying to dig it's way out of since day one. She further
noted that the question that has had to be answered is how this Council pays
for the things that are before them and no dollars to answer those demands.
She explained that it means that they have had to close down facilities and
lay-off to answer the financial problems. Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that
whether it is $250,000 or $500,000 a year, Council still needs a permanent
PAGE TWENTY-ONE - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
revenue source to pay for them and emphasized that it is yearly and not just
one or two years. She stated that no one can deny that the City needs
another Fire Station, however the Council must make fiscally sound
decisions and noted the financial work out team that developed a financial
strategy and the Council has been cautioned to stick to the strategy so that
the City can be dug out to allow services in the future. She noted the
contract with TMC to take over the Stadium and has not been signed yet
and therefore to commit the funds would be premature. She stressed that
she would like to see Council tackle the issue when they know how they
will be able to pay for it and operate it in the correct manner. She noted that
the professionals have recommended that the City man the Station with a
paid staff and she felt that the City should behoove that recommendation.
He concurred with Councilwoman Kelley regard the funding of a Fire Station and
noted that at this time the City does not have a regular funding source to cover a
Fire Station. He explained that to build it now would place the City in the same
position that it finds itself in with the Stadium. He noted that when he was elected
the voters wanted to have the City pulled out of debt and that is what he is
committed to. He further noted that the temporary station was vetoed by the
people and it has been noted that the voters want a permanent fire station when the
City can afford to do so. He noted that the public wants it to be built and staffed
however they do not want to be assessed for it, therefore the City will have to wait
until funding is available. He stated that what he feels that all this comes down to
is someone was upset over the Stadium and Theater and will do anything that they
can to make this Council look bad, when they are just trying to deal with the
situations that previous Council's had put in motion. If the public wishes to sue
Council he stated that they could since he has an attorney available. Councilman
Alongi stated that Councilman Metze could not use the City Attorney.
Councilman Metze asked that Councilman Alongi not interrupt him by order of
Council Policy and Roberts Rules of Order. He questioned the ambulance service
that the City uses and asked if they were paramedics and what the difference was.
Chief Wright noted that the ambulance provider, American Medical Response,
provides paramedic or advanced life support services. He explained that Fire
Services provides basic life support services by basic first responder level training
or EMT. Councilman Metze stated that each augments the other. Chief Wright
concurred. Councilman Metze noted that the west end has Emergency Medical
Response in a superior time factor than other places in the City. Chief Wright
stated that is only if they are close to home base. He noted that they are in a
Regional Program and could be committed to a traffic accident on the freeway.
Councilman Metze noted that this could also apply to the Fire Trucks as well. He
explained the move-up resources and how each station backs the others.
Councilman Metze noted that due to the location of the ambulance, the response
time is faster in that area. Chief Wright concurred and stressed that it would only
be faster if they were in their home base.
PAGE TWENTX-TWO - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES-FEBRUARY 24,1998
MOVED BY BRINLEY, SECOND BY METZE TO POSTPONE
INDEFINITELY THE WEST END FIRE STATION ISSUE.
Councilman Alongi stated that Chief Wright stated that the goal is 2
minutes per mile and the Lakeland Fire Station to I 15 and Lake Street is 9.1
miles which is 18 minute response time. He noted the following: That
moving an emergency vehicle: from four corners to that area would enhance
the response time and stated that the Fire Department cannot respond in a
proper time from Lakeland Village or from the Elsinore Station; that the
City has never lived up to it's Master Plan for Fire Protection; the only thing
that is discussed at Planning Commission level is fire flow, the Fire
Department has never requested denial on any project, unless there was a
Fire Station within the responding time, however they have responded to
fire flow which addresses the location, number and water flow. He
addressed the Stadium contract and noted that Council directed Little
League to go out and start making plans to start playing ball in their parlcs.
Councilman Alongi stated that if the contract has not been approved, then
what is Council directing Little League for, yet we cannot do a Fire Station.
He noted that the type of response that is experienced in this area by
Volunteers which is at the Lakeland Village Fire Station is 50°/a. He further
noted that the Elsinore Fire Station is all paid personnel and he noted that
50% is better than zero. He further noted the total number of incidents
where Volunteers responded from the Lakeland Village Fire Station which
is primarily staffed by Volunteers is 615 times and is better than nothing.
He stated that we are not talking about the e~reme level of Fire Protection
in the Western Area; we are not talking about taking funds from the Library
and spending it on the Fire Station; we are talking about money that was
taken from the residents to build a Fire Station; we are talking about setting
a policy with the Fire Chief that if a decision was made to man the Station
with Voluryteers, would work his butt off to try to do that because that's his
job; the Chief would not turn his back on the Fire Station and say "to hell
with it, we ain't gonna put anybody in that Station". He stated that the Chief
would work his heart out because that's his responsibility as a Fire Chief.
He noted his court cases and stated that he would be on Council long after
the others are gone because he knows the system.
THE FOREGOING MOTION WAS APPROVED BY A VOTE OF 4 TO 1
WITH ALONGI CASTING THE DISSENTING VOTE.
'Y'HE CITY COUNCIL MEETING WAS RECESSED AT 9:10 P.M.
THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING RECONVENED AT 9:22 P.M.
34. Mayoral Election - Rec~uested by Councilman Alon~. (F:44.1)
City Manager Watenpaugh stated that Councilman Alongi requested that
y
PAGE TWENTY-THREE-CITY COLTNCIL MINUTES-FEB. 24,1998
Council consider the position of Mayor be an elected office and be place on
the next available election. He aslced for Council direction.
Mayor Pape called upon those persons who wished to address this item.
Chris Hyland, 15191 Wavecrest Driv~, stated her support of an elected
Mayor. She suggested that the me~~°~ ~~± to elect a Mayar be delayed until
after the possible recall in Ma,y.
James Gray, 15159 Mimosa Drive, stated that if the voters elected a Mayor
there would be no fences around City Parlcs, and the West End Fire Station
would be open and operating: He further stated that it is time that the City
moved toward the 21 st Century and have an elected Mayor to represent the
City of Lake Elsinore, not a situation of "gee it's my turn to be Mayor".
Councilman Alongi stated that in his opinion the public should vote for
their own Mayor; that it is time since the Council Policy doesn't work and
noted that a new Mayor should be appointed each year to facilitate everyone
being Mayor; it would be a good thing for the Community to have an
elected Mayor even though the election wculd cost $30,000; whether the
Council approves this item tonight or not, it would make it easy on the
citizens if it were approve, however if Council does not the citizens will
have to collect signatures to place the item on the ballot. He noted that if
this Council is not afraid of electing a Mayor then they should take this
action. He further noted that this Council feels that they have a good
working relationship and why bring someone else in that they might not be
able to work with. He stated that it might be the case or not, however at this
point and time it seems as though whoever has control of the Council has
control of the position of Mayor and that is not fair. He stated that at the
last appointment the posit?or. ~f maycr shculd have gor_e to Mayor Pro Tem
Kelley since she was r_ext in line, hcwever any person sitting on Council
can be Mayor and it is a matter of politics and it is a matter of selfishness
and shows who has the power, and will do what they want anyway.
Councilman Alongi stated tha± the public will understand how this Council
feels and they don't want to give you the right to vote for your Mayor.
Councilman Metze addressed Mr. Gray and stated that his friends promised
the citizens the world and were not elected; they promised parks and fire
stations and were not elected. He noted that they did not come close. He
noted that this Council is sitting here and mzking decisions. He further
stated that he loves people who m~lcepromises that don't have a clue how
they are going to deliver. Councilrnan D/Ietze stressed that this is $30,000
more that these people want to take from the reserves and noted that every
item that is proposed would have to come from the reserves and asked when
the money runs out and things will have to be taken away. He further noted
that these people want to spend all of the reserve money and then what will
PAGE TWENTY-FOUR - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEB. 24,1998
happen when there is a lawsuit with a settlement of $100,000 and no
reserves to pay for it and stated that it would then have to be paid for by
cutting services. He stated that this issue is a dead horse that has beaten to
death. He stated that we are a town of 26,000 and noted what is happening
in Perris which has a real power problem. He encouraged people to read the
papers and then form their opinion. Councilman Metze addressed the issue
of recall and noted that "the group" tried to recall of two Councilmembers
and asked for the resignation of the other two, however they do not say
anything about the Councilman who has been convicted by the FPPC for
four violations of the Fair Political Practices Commission. He noted that
the Grand Jury handed down indictments of 16 different counts that state
willful and corrupt misconduct while in office, and yet they don't say one
word about him since he is their champion. He noted that the actions of the
other members of the Council have not been in question.
Councilwoman Brinley concurred with Councilman Metze regarding an
elected Mayor. She noted that an elected office for Mayor occurs in larger
communities where they are split into districts and need an elected Mayor
and used Los Angeles as an example which needs individual representation.
She further noted that the City of Lake Elsinore has five active City
Council people who are suppose to be working for the best interests of the
community as a whole. She explained that this has been the way that the
majority of Council works. Councilwoman Brinley took exception to Mr.
Gray's comments regarding the appointment of Mayor and made a review of
that meeting. She noted that the conduct of the Council did not lend to his
comments. She stated that if the community wishes to have an elected
Mayor, then the decision should be up to the community and not Council.
She noted that it is their community and their Council and that is what they
choose, then this Council will follow their direction.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley stated that this is the second discussion in regard to
this issue and explained that when one position is set apart from the others
by separate election, it inherently gives that position more power. She
explained that if a position is made different it becomes more powerful and
is something that is not needed by this City and Council at this time. She
stated that she felt that every voter in the City should be voting for Council
people that they would ultimately envision as being Mayor who will serve
in that position with professionalism and pride. Mayor Pro Tem Kelley
noted that other cities have elected their Mayors and have seen the cost of
running for that position triple and quadruple and the reason is that all of a
sudden that position becomes more powerful. She stated that is the last
thing that this City needs and if that's what you are trying to eliminate by
electing a Mayor you have just defeated your purpose. She stressed that the
voters of this community need to vote for Council people with the idea that
any one of them at any point and time would be serving as Mayor.
PAGE TWENTY-FIVE - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEB. 24,1998
MOVED BY METZE, SECONDED BY BRINLEY TO DENY THE
REQUEST TO PLACE THE ISSUE OF A DIRECT ELECTION OF
~ MAYOR IN THE NEXT POSSIBLE ELECTION.
Mayor Pape stated that at this time an elected Mayor would create an us
versus them attitude and is not something that builds cohesiveness and helps
the City to move forward. He noted a comment that was made regarding a
separate elected position for Mayor then the Fire Station would be built and
~ the fences down at the parks and explained that it would still take three
' votes on Council to get anything done and it doesn't matter what one person
on Council thinks no matter what the title, it still takes three votes to get
anything done. He explained that it is used in larger cities because of larger
population and that way an individual representative has a better
opportunity to meet and work with his constituents instead of having so
many that it becomes unmanageable. He asked if it made sense to pull
$30,000 from reserves when the money could be used somewhere else. He
noted that the item presented to Council is not sufficient to allow anything
~ to be placed on the ballot and would have to be brought back before Council
' and would not even make the June ballot. He further noted that this item is
more of a political move and in the past the item has been discussed several .
I, times. Mayor Pape stated that what may appear to be bold and benevolent
could also be very self-serving.
I THE FOREGOING MOTION WAS APPROVE BY A 4 TO 1 VOTE WITH
I ALONGI CASTING THE DISSENTING VOTE.
ITEMS PULLED FROM THE CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Minutes
a. Regular City Council Meeting - January 27. 1998. (F:44.4)
Mayor Pape noted an error on Page 6 of these Minutes and clarified that the
extra funding for additional water should be for the months of June, July,
August & September.
MOVED BY PAPE, 5ECONDED BY BRINLEY AND CARRIED BY
UNANIMOUS VOTE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS CORRECTED.
b. Regular CitXCouncil Meeting - February 10, 1998. (F:44.4)
City Attorney Leibold corrected the Closed Session Announcements on the
Minutes of February 10, 1998, indicating that there were actually four
Closed Session items; with the fourth item reading "Directed Legal Counsel
to send a default letter to the lessee of a property, upon non-compliance
with an agreement." She further clarified that on Item Number 3, direction
was for staff to "pursue° legal action, in accordance with the Brown Act;
PAGE TWENTY-SIX - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEB. 24,1998
and noted that all four items were directed upon unanimous action of the
Council.
MOVED BY METZE, SECONDED BY BRINLEY AND CARRIED BY
UNANIMOUS VOTE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 10,
1998, AS CORRECTED.
3. Claims Against the Citv submitted bv Kristopher Martin - CL #98-3; Anita
Porter - CL #98-4; Kathie Porter - CL #98-5; Steven Buchanan - CL #98-6:
Bridget Louiza - CL #98-7. (F:52.2)
Councilman Alongi indicated that he pulled this item because all of these
claims are the result of potholes in the Community. He questioned the
interest the City receives on the reserves in the bank; and indicated that
action could have been taken to care for the problem areas. He stressed the
Council's responsibility to the Community.
MOVED BY ALONGI, SECONDED BY BRINLEY AND CARRIED BY
UNANIMOUS VOTE TO REJECT AND REFER THE ABOVE LISTED
CLAIMS AND REFER TO THE CLAIMS ADMINISTRATOR FOR
HANDLING.
4. Proclamation - Mediation Week. (F:122.1)
Councilman Alongi indicated that Mediation is a joke with this Council, and
it is an absolute joke to see it on the agenda.
MOVED BY ALONGI, SECONDED BY BRINLEY AND CARRIED BY
UNANIMOUS VOTE TO APPROVE THE MEDIATION WEEK
PROCLAMATION AND DIRECT STAFF TO FORWARD IT TO THE
REQUESTOR.
THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING WAS RECESSED AT 9:39 P.M.
THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING RECONVENED AT 9:46 P.M.
PUBLIC COMMENTS - NON-AGENDIZED ITEMS
Donna Lucas, announced the first open air market this Sunday, March 1 st and
detailed the event as proposed. She detailed the activities being offered from 7
a.m. to 3 p.m. and noted the street closure for the event. She further noted that the
weather will be good and the street will be full of vendors and entertainment. She
expressed hopes that the Councilmembers would attend.
Ace Vallejos, 15231 Cobre, expressed his disappointment with finding out that the
City filed an appeal on the Community of Interest. He indicated that it reminds
PAGE TWENTY-SEVEN - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEB. 24,1998
him of Saddam Hussain, trying to dictate how they will live. He reiterated his
disappointment with the treatment of the Cleveland Ridge COI. He questioned
why the City Attorney did not attend the LAFCO hearing, but the City is spending
money to have her fight it. He stressed the number of registered voter signatures
collected, and suggested that the appeal is a waste of staff time.
Chris Hyland, 15191 Wavecrest Drive, indicated that she has been waiting for this
moment to address Mayor Pape and Mary Venerable. She suggested that in her
opinion they tried to humiliate and slander her. She indicated that the Mayor
showed favoritism to those who cater to him, by letting them speak more than
three minutes. She commented that she doesn't have to address the City Council,
but can address who she chooses. She indicated his problem is that thinks he is a
big wheel, but is really a small spoke. She commented that his hours at City Hall
and rallies is admirable, but it must take time away from his own business. She
addressed Mrs. Venerable who originally came to the Council with a grievance,
was appointed to the Task Force and flip-flopped. She indicated that Mrs.
Venerable has also slandered her and given misinformation. She indicated that if
the information is incorrect then City Hall and other agencies are providing
incorrect documents. She noted that she has videotapes of ineetings since 1992.
She noted her rights under the first amendment.
CITY MANAGER COMMENTS
City Manager Watenpaugh introduced Bob Brady the City's new, Community
Development Director and commented that he is a great addition to the
community and staff. He noted the absence of Administrative Services Director
Boone, and indicated that Finance Manager Magee was present to represent
Finance.
CITY ATTORNEY COMMENTS
No Comments.
CITY COUNCIL COMMENTS
Mayor Pro Tem Kelley commented on the following:
1) Reminded the Council and Community about the Chamber of
Commerce Mixer on Thursday, February 26th at Chuckles Java
Junction.
2) Noted the season opening of girls softball, on Saturday, February
28th at 7 a.m.
3) Announced the Author's Tea at Chuckles for the Friends of the
Library.
PAGE TWENTY-EIGHT - CITY COUNCII, MINUTES = FEB. 24,1998
4) Noted that Visions and Views will be filmed on Main Street on
March 1 st; and the Historical Society will have an open house on
March 3rd.
Councilwoman Brinley commented on the following:
1) Noted a letter from the Office of Traffic and Safety regarding the
Grant Program for School Pedestrian Safety. She congratulated City
staff on completing the project agreement and congratulated City
Engineer O'Donnell on a job well done.
2) Noted Mrs. Venerable's past concerns which were expressed to the
City Council and indicated that she decided to bet involved in the
Community on the ballot measure issues. She noted that Mrs.
Venerable would rather be part of the solution than part of the
problem.
3) Reiterated that Visions and Views will be filmed on Main Street on
Sunday and include interviews with participants and attendees. She
extended an invitation for residents to write to Council with ideas for
future programs.
4) Indicated that the Wildomar Little League will be holding a Pancake
Breakfast and encouraged participation.
Councilman Metze commented on the following:
1) Indicated that Mrs. Venerable stood to pay more than the average
resident in the community for her business, if the ballot measures
would have passed. He noted that with regard to flip-flopping, Mrs.
Hyland was for and elected Mayor in the newspaper, then against an
elected Mayor and now again in support of the elected Mayor
concept.
Councilman Alongi commented on the following:
1) Responded to Councilman Metze regarding Mrs. Venerable's
business, and indicated that businesses don't pay the bill, the
consumer does.
2) Noted a family trip to Disneyland on Saturday with his
granddaughters and indicated that he came to the conclusion that it
would be a waste to die of high blood pressure because of what he is
doing. He further indicated that he gave it a lot of thought and has
come to the conclusion and made a birthday resolution as he did in
1980, that he doesn't give a damn what the Council has to say. He
PAGE TWENTY-NINE - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEB. 24,1998
will do what he thinks is right, will bring forward the information he
feels is right; and can afford anything the Council does.
3) Addressed Councilman Metze and indicated that he shows his
ignorance; and needs to go to a law library and look at an accusation
vs. an indictment. He stressed the difference between criminal and
civil matters. He noted that the Council wants to get themselves
involved in his case, but he has decided that something is wrong with
the Government Code and is answering it his way. He suggested that
the Council needs to stop looking ignorant. He indicated with regard
to the FPPC it is a Government Code and has nothing to do with
crime, unless it involves negligence. He stressed that a decision he
made violated that Code, but it is not the business of the Council, and
does not impact his ability to perform as a Councilperson. He
indicated that he is the most successful person sitting on the Council.
He further indicated that he will still be here in 1999 and he will run
for Mayor in 1999. He commented that the City should be divided
into Districts.
4) Addressed Mayor Pro Tem Kelley regarding her concerns about the
j Council and voting.
5) Noted that the Mayor says not much thought was given to the item
regarding the Mayor's position discussed; and suggested if he had
placed it on the regular agenda rather than Study Session there would
have been more time far analysis. He indicated that the
Councilmembers use the City Attorney to do things they themselves
know are wrong.
6) Addressed Roberts Rules of Order, and indicated that the Council
only abides by those rules which are beneficial to them. .
7) Addressed the Outflow Channel and noted efforts to buck the system
on Reclaimed Water. He noted the junk being deposited in the Lalce
today and suggested that efforts should be focused on trying to find
legislation in Sacramento which would allow for an assessment on
the people dumping junk in the Lake. He stressed that if the rains
continue there will be flooding and questioned why it would not be
' appropriate to open the levee and let the water go into the back basin
where it belongs, although it won't look good far Liberty. .
8) Addressed comments regarding the Redevelopment Agency, and
indicated that the problems are from paying someone else's bills. He
noted the sewers in the Amber Ridge Tract and stressed problems in
the Gunnerson/Strickland area with septic. He stressed that the funds
should be used within the Redevelopment Project Areas.
PAGE THIRTY - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24,1998
9) Questioned why is the RDA is representing the Stadium, when the
City has more money invested. He further questioned whether the
City is any less responsible. He inquired where development is
taking place, what happened to the Water Park and the Racetrack; and
where all the taxes are coming from the pay the bills. He indicated
that if development were to start today, it would be three years before
the City would see a dime from any of the taxes. He reiterated that
he is just going to give the information whether people believe it ar
not; and he could care less what the rest of the Council has to say. He
indicated that he will beat the accusations one by one. He reiterated
that he will still be on the Council in 1999, but the Council is too
dumb to understand the system; and expressed doubts that Jay Orr
had figured it out either. He indicated that in the future he will get an
"A" in conduct. .
10) Indicated that it is a shame about the fire station, but that is how the
Council justifies putting the residents in danger.
11) Addressed a statement by Councilman Metze, that because ... Mr.
Alongi has money, he will rob you of your rights. He questioned if it
was a crime to have money and rights. He indicated that people
with money who can afford an attorney fight the system; but
Councilman Metze would rob people of their rights because they
have money. He noted that he is willing to invest every dime he has,
but he wants one person to say he has gained from his work in the
community and show him where he did so. He commented that he is
proud of his efforts to provide housing. He reiterated that from here
on, Mr. Alongi will be absolutely wonderful. He thanked staff, for
their efforts on Saturday and Sunday nights in the rain. He indicated
that the City has a great staff out there, and they are dedicated
employees working to keep the roads safe.
Mayor Pape commented on the following:
1) Congratulated Administrative Services Director Boone and his staff
for and award on outstanding financial accounting and offered kudos
to finance staff. --
2) Noted for the sake of Mayor Pro Tem Kelley that the term she used
was "inherent", not intelligent.
3) Noted the comments regarding LAFCO and indicated that there is no
interest in annexing anyone who does not what to be annexed. He
stressed that it is completely up to the residents. He commented that
he has no more authority than any of the other Councilmembers and it
always takes three votes to accomplish anything.
PAGE THIRTY-ONE - CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - FEBRUARY 24, 1998
~
4) Indicated that there is a difference between "indictment" and
"accusation", but it is easy to confuse the two words, as Councilman
'~ Alongi did during the grand jury discussion. He suggested that when
' there is discussion of corruption in office there is no sense in splitting
hairs. He stressed that there has been a violation of the Civil Code,
and Councilman Alongi's admission makes it an easy job for the
District Attorney.
j CLOSED SESSION
a. Anticipated Litigation - 1 Case (Pursuant to Government Code Section
54956.9(b))
City Attorney Leibold announced the Closed Session case and the related
' authority.
THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING WAS ADJOUI2NED TO CLOSED
SESSION AT 10:15 P.M..
COUNCILMAN ALONGI LEFT THE MEETING AT 10;17 P.M.
' THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING RECONVENED AT 10:34 P.M., WITH
' THE FOLLOWING ANNOUNCEMENT:
~i THE FOUR COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT UNANIMOUSLY
DIRECTED LEGAL COUNSEL TO RESPOND TO
CORRESPONDENCE IN CONJUNCTION WITH AN ITEM OF
ANTICIPATED LITIGATION.
ADJOURNMENT
MOVED BY BRINLEY, SECONDED BY METZE AND CARRIED BY
UNANIMOUS VOTE OF THOSE PRESENT TO ADJOURN THE
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING AT .35 P.M.
VIN W. PA E, MAYOR
, , CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE
' T Tc1/~ c
/
ICKI KASAD, TY CLERK
CITY OF' LAKE ELSINORE