HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-15-2002 Special City Council MinutesMINUTES
SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE
130 SOUTH MAIN STREET
LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA
THURSDAY, AUGUST 15, 2002
CALL TO ORDER
The Special City Council Meeting was called to order by Mayor Kelley at 3:34
p.m.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Senior Code Enforcement Officer Gordon
ROLL CALL
PRESENT: COUNCILMEMBERS:
ABSENT: COUNCILMEMBERS:
BRINLEY, HICKMAN,
SCHIFFNER, KELLEY
BUCKLEY
(Councilman Buckley arrived
at 3:45 p.m.)
Also present were: City Manager Watenpaugh, Assistant City Manager Best,
Assistant City Attorney Mann, Administrative Services Director Boone,
Community Development Director Brady, Community Services
Director Sapp, Information/Communications Manager Dennis, Building/Safety
Manager Russell, City Treasurer Ferro and City Clerk/Human Resources Director
Kasad.
BUSINESS ITEM
Parity Study & Process Audit - L. B. Hayhurst. (17:68.1)(X: 116.1)
City Manager Watenpaugh noted that this matter had been referred from the
regular City Council Meeting to this Special Meeting for discussion with
PAGE TWO - SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 15, 2002
L.B. Hayhurst. He reminded the Council that staff had recommended L.B.
Hayhurst to provide the study, as the other bidders did not offer the two
studies combined into a joint process; and their costs would have been
greater for the work. He noted that the Assistant City Manager, City
Clerk/Human Resources Director Kasad and himself had met with Mr.
Hayhurst earlier in the day to provide him with information on the
community. He explained that a third party with this area of expertise was
needed to evaluate, compare and make strong recommendations. He noted
that some of the issues upon which the Council would need to make a
determination included where they wanted the City to fall in salary ranges
and how to implement the program, so there would be no haggling later. He
introduced Lonnie Hayhurst, President of L.B. Hayhurst & Company.
Mayor Kelley welcomed Mr. Hayhurst and thanked him for his attendance.
She noted requests to speak on this item and suggested taking those
comments prior to Mr. Hayhurst's presentation.
Edith Stafford, 29700 Hursh, questioned why the City was always
contracting things out, and suggested that staff should be able to do this
work. She noted that there were qualified staff members and it should be
simple enough for them to obtain the information. She questioned if the
citizens could get the information, why staff could not. Mayor Kelley
concurred that the staff was qualified, but suggested a third party was needed
to review salaries, as it would be awkward to review their own salaries.
Chris Hyland, 15191 Wavecrest, indicated that she did not support this
study, but requested clarification that the survey would be based on cities of
the same, or nearly the same population, and not larger cities. She noted that
she was sending out letters to cities throughout the State with populations
between 25,000 and 45,000, and her findings were very interesting. She
suggested that if this study came up with something unrealistic, there would
be big trouble. She noted prior comments about the Union wanting the
study and suggested if that was true they should pay for it. She indicated
that she was tired of her tax dollars going for studies, which turn out to be
nothing. She advised that she would be watching this process like a hawk.
PAGE THREE - SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 15, 2002
She cautioned the Council to not use cities like Los Angeles, Oakland or San
Francisco. She noted that her study would cost less than $100. Mayor
Kelley stressed the need for apples to apples comparisons, with like cities,
like job descriptions and like experience. She indicated that this was not
only a Union request, but it was also a Councilman's request.
William Tito, 32296 Machado, inquired if the process would review the job
description for each job and provide a progress report on how the staff was
doing, and whether they were working within their budget. He stressed the
importance of evaluating whether staff was doing the job and publishing the
findings. Mayor Kelley indicated that there would be a report at the end of
the process, and it would be a public record, which would be accessible to
the public. City Manager Watenpaugh confirmed that the report would
come back to the Council reviewing the job, benefits and process audit, and
the Council would act on it, making it public information.
Kathy Delgado, authorized representative of the UPEC Local 777 Union,
indicated that she was responsible for looking out for the interests of Union
members; and confirmed that they had requested the study because it was
important to be sure members were paid appropriately for the jobs they were
doing. She advised that she wanted the Council to be aware that they were
very much interested in the process of the study, and stressed the need for
members to participate in the process. She indicated that she was also
present to check out the Consultant, as she had a great deal of experience
with this process. She stressed that the Union would be interested in the
final results, as well as the process. She offered their assistance in any
appropriate role during the process.
Lonnie Hayhurst, President, L.B. Hayhurst & Associates presented copies of
talking point regarding his firm and their proposal. He highlighted the
background of L.B. Hayhurst and Associates, which had been in business
about nine years, working in both the public and private sectors. He
indicated that they worked with seventeen associates, with some being
brought in by the project based on their expertise with particular issues. He
advised that they had experience in classification, compensation, and process
PAGE FOUR - SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 15, 2002
or management audits. He indicated that he personally would be the project
leader for this project, and he would be the one on -site dealing with issues.
He advised that their client base ranged from the City of Los Angeles to
smaller communities of about 2,000 in population.
COUNCILMAN BUCKLEY ARRIVED AT 3:45 P.M.
He commented that Lake Elsinore was in the size range they liked to work
with, as it was possible to get their arms around the issues. He noted that on
the private side they had been working with Riverdeep, a software company,
which was being marketed internationally; addressing management skills,
workflow, etc. He highlighted their work in the capacity of the Human
Resources Department, and noted that one of their more novel clients was
the new Santana Band. He reviewed the scope of services as submitted to
include the parity review and process audit; from the initial project meeting
with a defined group of people including the City Councilmembers to
determine where any complaints were coming from. He indicated that they
liked to identify stakeholders in the Community, sit down with the Union to
hear their concerns and orient them to sit down with employees and
determine job duties and responsibilities. He indicated that they would
interview all employees and update job specifications and classifications,
and do a lot of listening to the specified groups. He further indicated that
they would benchmark similar agencies, looking for key processes and
issues, and looking at communities with similar size processes and standards
by which to judge the structure and workflow. He advised that after
benchmarking, they would analyze the data and prepare a report on the
process orientation and standards in the community. He clarified that they
would not commit to doing performance evaluations of the employees, or
determining whether staff had met goals and expectations, but they would be
looking at where the processes and systems could be improved.
Councilwoman Brinley inquired whether they would evaluate efficiency.
Mr. Hayhurst indicated that the process audit would evaluate where
processes were getting blocked or cut off and see who is not getting the
appropriate information. He stressed that they would need to review the
PAGE FIVE - SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 15, 2002
Council priorities and how the processes operate in the City, as every
community prioritizes differently. He explained that they would write the
job specifications based on how the City was set up and how the work would
flow. He indicated that in the initial reviews for the process audit, they
would also be formulating classification information, which would be sent
back to management and the employees for review; followed by the final
report. He commented that nothing should be secret in this process and he
liked to work in a very open environment. He noted his experience at the
bargaining table and stressed the importance of keeping the information
flowing so he could give a neutral third party recommendation. He indicated
that he would not meet and confer during the process, but liked open
communication with the Union.
Mr. Hayhurst noted from a compensation standpoint, as mentioned, the
Council would need to address options and set policy for where they wanted
the community to be in the labor market. He noted variables such as
staffing levels to be considered when setting priorities and addressing issues
with the Union. He clarified that they would provide information to assist
the Council in setting those policies, after they learned how the organization
operated. He further clarified that they would look at jurisdictions which
were structured similarly with similar service levels and analyze the
positions doing a specific kind of work. He noted his understanding that
some of the Council would be interested in doing some private sector
surveying, and while that could be done, it would be with the caveat that
many companies quoted the salary policy which could be out of line with the
actual market. He stressed that the comparison would not only be apples to
oranges, but it might not be complete; and while he had done it in the past,
the issues of accuracy were of concern.
Councilman Hickman indicated that after reading the proposal he found that
the project manager was a former local government director, and expressed
his distrust of government. He commented that he did not like the
government policing the government; and suggested that he would like the
City Council to have the opportunity to evaluate the job descriptions to
prevent inflated egos. He indicated that he would like to see the
PAGE SIX - SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 15, 2002
comparisons done based on cities with similar budgets, populations, and
types of services. He further indicated that he would want some public
sector figures to compare apples to apples. He commented that the process
study was truly needed. He concurred that after this discussion, a
professional was needed for this study. Mr. Hayhurst noted the potential
difficulty of comparisons with the private sector on the basis of budgets; and
expressed concern the potential comparison of CEO salaries to City
Manager salaries was not the intent.
Councilman Buckley questioned the time frame for completion of the work.
Mr. Hayhurst noted the task list of about 26 weeks from start to finish; and
indicated that part of the reason for the length of time was that if the process
was rushed, people would not feel they had adequate input, and the Council
would need time to digest the preliminary reports.
Councilman Buckley addressed the employee questionnaires, and expressed
concern that staff would be defining their own jobs and saying how long a
task took. He inquired if the study would consider how long they claimed a
task took vs. how long it should take. Mr. Hayhurst indicated that the
employee responses were verified with the management, as to the time
involved; and the report itself would discuss timeliness and make
comparisons to industry standards. Councilman Buckley clarified that it
should not only address timeliness of meeting needs, but also the timeliness
of having pay justified by wearing multiple hats; and expressed hopes that
they would determine the "right" hat size. Mr. Hayhurst indicated that
some of the best had tried to snow him, but generally that type of effort
comes out in the wash.
Councilman Buckley addressed the stakeholders, and expressed concern that
the public wasn't really discussed for the process audit, but providing better
service was the goal. He stressed that in the data gathering and operational
review, he saw the public input as crucial to the process. Mr. Hayhurst
noted that this was discussed earlier with staff, as he inquired whether there
was a means of customer surveying. He explained that if for example there
was a concern with the public perception of people obtaining building
permits, it might be a good idea to talk with the building industry. He
PAGE SEVEN - SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 15, 2002
commented that each community had different processes, and sometimes
groups such as the chamber were good sources, and sometimes not. He
indicated that he would suggest meeting with stakeholders or doing some
public surveying as part of the process, but first he would need to determine
how it works best in Lake Elsinore. He noted that the public perception of
customer service varied or changed, as the public becomes used to better
service and expectations change. He stressed that he was not sure of the
City's structure yet, but the standards would need to be applied and balanced.
Councilman Buckley inquired if as part of public input, besides talking with
the builders, if they would go through and pull out random people to see
how they felt they were treated, or someone who spoke at a Council
meeting. He stressed his interest in gaining the widest public input possible.
Mr. Hayhurst indicated that he had randomly picked permits for a year or
two and sent out surveys or called to discuss their contact. He noted that he
was not a real strong supporter of a customer services survey at the counter,
as the results may not be a good sense of the situation, but random selection
might be appropriate.
Councilman Buckley questioned whether internal issues and information
processing to agencies outside the City would be considered. Mr. Hayhurst
indicated that in the Management/Process Audit, they would look at issues
or blocks to making necessary connections. He clarified that they would not
be looking at the public records, but rather the process flow.
Councilman Buckley inquired if they would be evaluating current
performance. Mr. Hayhurst indicated they would not, because he did not
feel it was appropriate to evaluate someone, when it was not done by their
supervisor or manager; but they could identify problems in the work flow.
Councilman Buckley inquired if there would be suggestions on fixing goals
that were not being met. Mr. Hayhurst confirmed, noting that if there was an
internal process problem with a manager, they might recommend sending
them to training to improve internal communication skills.
PAGE EIGHT - SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 15, 2002
Councilman Buckley noted the comment that the draft reports would be
provided to staff and inquired if they would be available to Council. Mr.
Hayhurst confirmed. Councilman Buckley inquired if the classification
portion would addressed who reported to whom. Mr. Hayhurst indicated
that it would not from a classification standpoint, unless someone could not
identify who their supervisor was; but from a process standpoint, if it was
found that work orders were not getting to the right people or there was not
proper direction to staff, that would be addressed. He clarified that the
classification would identify reporting relationships.
Councilman Buckley inquired if compensation would include benefits. Mr.
Hayhurst confirmed. Councilman Buckley requested confirmation that
location comparisons would matter in considering local cost of living and
appropriateness of salary. Mr. Hayhurst indicated that generally 30 to 50
miles is an acceptable commute pattern, but some barriers might require a
larger area. He explained that this consideration would be based on a
reasonable distance for recruitment, a defined labor market, commute
distances, etc. He noted that in Marin County, where he lived, the commute
circle was about 60 miles because no one could afford to live there.
Councilman Buckley questioned the timing for determining the comparable
range. Mr. Hayhurst indicated that it would be later in the process; but
would be requested before they got into analysis, to determine the
appropriate structure. He explained the process for determining those
factors and how they could assist the Council in that process.
Councilman Buckley questioned the collective bargaining process and
whether Mr. Hayhurst had any recommendations on the appropriateness of
negotiating with the Union, while the management got whatever the Union
did. Mr. Hayhurst indicated that he had not intended to make any
recommendations on that issue, but he could provide input on the process;
but noted a situation that resulted in the formation of a management
bargaining unit with meet and confer rights. He stressed that this was
ultimately a policy decision.
PAGE NINE - SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 15, 2002
Councilwoman Brinley inquired how they would address and compare staff
doing double duty. Mr. Hayhurst indicated that the most difficult part of
doing a compensation review for a community of this size was the need for
comparisons with other communities for similar positions. He noted that at
times they can find a clean break between. responsibilities and survey for
both to determine a middle range, but it depended on the majority of the
work a person was doing. He further noted that sometimes the positions
could determined to be primary and secondary responsibilities and so they
could balance. Councilwoman Brinley inquired if a lot of cities had this
situation. Mr. Hayhurst confirmed noting that there was at least one
interesting position combination in every community they had worked. He
provided the example in the City of Yucaipa, where the City Clerk was
serving as the Rent Administrator.
Councilwoman Brinley inquired how this type of effort would be handled
with the Union, on interviewing for concerns, and conflicts if someone is
being paid too much or too little. Mr. Hayhurst explained that ultimately
the compensation issues were part of the meet and confer process. He
indicated that he could provide a variety of options when the City made
determinations on how to address those issues. He noted that funding was
always an issue, but any corrections could be spread over a period of time.
Councilwoman Brinley inquired if they would be interviewing the Council.
Mr. Hayhurst confirmed and noted that he preferred to do so on an
individual basis to hear their personal concerns, based on different
constituencies. Councilwoman Brinley inquired about the possibility of a
random survey of questions on services. Mr. Hayhurst indicated that he had
not done it that way before, but he had received input in an open session,
established for the public to provide input and express concerns; but it would
depend on the community and he would need direction from Council as to
what would work in this community. Councilwoman Brinley noted that
anyone with a complaint would surely fill out a survey, but most people who
are happy will not complete a survey to note good or excellent service.
PAGE TEN - SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 15, 2002
Councilwoman Brinley inquired with regard to the private sector, if there
was something that had worked as a refined mixture of public and private.
Mr. Hayhurst indicated that in only one survey did he find that the private
sector information contributed valuable information, so he was not as
confident on the value of that information. Councilwoman Brinley further
inquired if mixing with the private sector was economically sound. Mr.
Hayhurst indicated that in one community, they had arrangements with a
number of private companies and had established long standing relationships
for participation in surveys. He stressed the difficulty of surveying areas of
the public sector beyond some basic areas like planning, office support, etc.
Councilwoman Brinley noted the potential for assistance from area
Chambers of Commerce. Mr. Hayhurst concurred. Councilwoman Brinley
questioned the cities which would be considered, noting that they would
probably be in Riverside County. Mr. Hayhurst indicated that he had not yet
analyzed them so he would not name them, but generally they would be in
Riverside County, within a 25 or 30 mile radius. Councilwoman Brinley
indicated that she was anxious to see this report and questioned the timing.
City Manager Watenpaugh indicated that it would probably be completed in
February. Councilwoman Brinley inquired if they would also look at Police
and Fire. Mr. Hayhurst indicated that they would not.
Mayor Pro Tem Schiffner questioned the process study and indicated that he
was most interested in the end result of what was produced for the people,
the overall efficiency of the operation and the operation of the City being
"citizen friendly ". He further indicated that he would hope the report would
give them the criteria used to determine the information and give them the
opportunity to agree or disagree. Mr. Hayhurst indicated that normally when
an audit is done, they pick out key factors to identify what works well and
what standards are in place, so they could show standard expected outcomes
and recommendations. He explained that ideally what they would provide
would be a report making suggestions for modifications, but at some point
they would need to look back and see what the goal was, and if it was
accomplished.
PAGE ELEVEN - SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 15, 2002
Mayor Pro Tern Schiffner addressed public participation in the process, and
suggested that if there was an interest in how the building permit process
worked, it would not be appropriate to ask the person who came in once.
He suggested input should be obtained from builders, architects and people
who were familiar with the process and had reasonable expectations. He
stressed the issue of "reasonable expectations ".
Mayor Pro Tem. Schiffner addressed the Parity Study and indicated that his
interest was somewhat different, in that the size of the Agency was not as
important. He stressed the labor market and determining what should be
paid to get someone to provide a specified service. He indicated that he
found fault with considering the size of the City, and stressed that the labor
market and appropriate pay was most important. He noted that it might be
necessary to compete with larger cities like Riverside, to hire employees.
He indicated that he had worked for public agencies for many years and had
been involved in a number of salary studies. He further indicated that it
was absolutely necessary to have a weighted study, based on the number of
employees doing the job. He noted that he had fought for this approach for
many years, and indicated you couldn't compare ten employees doing a job
with a place with one employee. He commented that with regard to where
the Council wanted to be in the labor market, the Council would make that
decision, but he was hoping that the study would not show that the staff was
terribly overpaid, so they would have to look at cutting salaries. He
indicated that he did not feel the private industry would show a lot, but on
the public side it was easier to get the information. He further indicated that
he didn't think many classifications could be directly compared to private
agencies. He noted that they would consider the total benefit package, and
he would want to see where the City stood and how much chance the City
would have to hire someone for the price it paid. He noted that there were
some unfilled positions, because the price offered was not adequate. He
indicated that he would depend on Mr. Hayhurst to evaluate gripes vs. true
facts. He stressed that the size of the agency was not important to him. Mr.
Hayhurst indicated that when he had a chance to analyze the situation, he
would bring the Council recommendations with regard to appropriate
agencies and Council could provide direction on which to use.
PAGE TWELVE - SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 15, 2002
Mayor Kelley noted the time line and the City's ability to review the work
after Phase I. Mr. Hayhurst clarified that there were several opportunities
for review in the process. Mayor Kelley noted that much had already been
said and indicated that the most important issues for her were a fair and
equitable process with accurate comparisons of apples to apples. She
indicated that she wanted the City to remain competitive in the labor market,
so it could attract qualified people and deliver services in an efficient
manner. She noted that the City hadn't had a study like this in a long time
and she was looking forward to the information.
Councilman Hickman questioned the commute limitation of 30 to 50 miles,
and questioned if this was getting the true value of the California labor
market. He noted that he spoke with the City Manager of San Jose and he
was only making $90,000. He stressed the impact of the Internet and the
mobility of the work force on the ability to recruit. Mr. Hayhurst clarified
that the City Manager of San Jose did not make $90,000, noting that he just
finished a recruitment for a Department Head at $145,000. He indicated that
while he had no specific answer for Mr. Hickman with regard to recruitment,
most Councils did not want to go statewide for a salary survey, as they
generally recruited more from the local market. He explained that a
statewide survey negated the issues of cost of living, etc, and clarified that it
was more an issue of what salary would draw people to the area. He noted
that with complex considerations added to the mix, the numbers would
become more arguable and challengeable, so the local market was a better
guideline.
Mayor Kelley clarified that they would not strictly limit their study to 60
miles. Mr. Hayhurst confirmed.
Councilman Hickman suggested that the City could not be compared to
Murrieta or Temecula, as their budgets were not comparable. He indicated
that this was why he was scared of "government people" doing this study.
Mayor Pro Tem Schiffner indicated he was not sure the budget was a factor,
as much as hiring the right person to do a specific job. He indicated that if
the person did the same job, they would be worth just as much in Lake
PAGE THIRTEEN - SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 15, 2002
Elsinore as in the other cities. He indicated that someone out of the State or
out of the Country would probably not come into this job market.
MOVED BY BRINLEY, SECONDED BY SCHIFFNER AND CARRIED BY
UNANIMOUS VOTE TO ACCEPT THE PROPOSAL OF L.B. HAYHURST
AND ASSOCIATES AT A COST NOT TO EXCEED $40,000; AND
DIRECTED STAFF TO APPROPRIATE THE ADDITIONAL $109000 TO
FUND THE PARITY STUDY AND PROCESS AUDIT.
ADJOURNMENT
THE SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 4:51
P.M.
GENIE KELLE
CITY OF LAKE
AT EST:
VICKI KASAD, CMC, CITY CLERK/
HUMAN RESOURCES DIRECTOR
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE