HomeMy WebLinkAbout02-01-2007 SSMINUTES
JOINT CITY COUNCIL/PLANNING COMMISSION
SPECIAL STUDY SESSION
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE
183 NORTH MAIN STREET
LAKE ELSINORE, CALIFORNIA
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 2007
.......... .............................................................
CALL TO ORDER - 5:00 P.M.
Mayor Magee called the Joint Special Study Session to order at 5:11 p.m.
ROLL CALL
PRESENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: HICKMAN, KELLEY, SCHIFFNER,
MAGEE
ABSENT: COUNCILMEMBERS: BUCKLEY (arrived at 5:13 p.m.)
PRESENT: COMMISSIONERS: FLORES, GONZALES, MENDOZA,
ZANELLI, O'NEAL
ABSENT: COMMISSIONERS: NONE
Also present were: City Manager Brady, City Attorney Leibold, Assistant City Attorney
McClendon, Deputy City Attorney Santana, Administrative Services Director Pressey,
Community Development Director Preisendanz, Information/Communications Manager
Dennis, City Engineer Seumalo, Public Works Manager Payne, Planning Manager
Weiner, Associate Planner ponahoe and City Clerk Ray.
DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. Development Review
Community Development Director Preisendanz presented the Development
Review Process and Environmental Procedure relative to the City of Lake
Elsinore's Community Development Department. He commented on each step
taken when an application is submitted for approval from the Planning
Commission and/or City Council. He commented on the goal of the Community
Development Department. He noted that communication is key throughout the
process and to being committed to addressing environmental implications of
projects early in the process to avoid any issues later on.
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B. Environmental Processes (CEQA and MSHCP Implementation)
Community Development Director Preisendanz presented the Environmental
Processing for Development. He commented on each major component involved
in the process. He commented on the MSHCP analysis and benefits. He stated
that the Determination of Biological Equivalent or Superior Preservation (DBESP)
could be addressed during the CEQA process. He commented on the MSHCP
being the largest plan in the nation covering 1.26 million acres.
Mayor Magee recognized the Executive Director of the RCA, Tom Mullen. He
stated that through Mr. Mullen's vision, the MSHCP was brought together.
Mr. Mullen complimented Community Development Director Preisendanz on his
presentation. He commented on the National Environmental Protection Act and
California Environmental Quality Act. He indicated that he was working with the
Army Corps. Of Engineers in an attempt to come up with a clearer and more
streamlined process that will accomplish what they believe to be the point with
the MSHCP. He indicated that he recognized the jury was still out with the
before mentioned. He believed that the exclusive reason for the MSHCP was to
accelerate the placement of infrastructure. He commented on the traffic on
surrounding highways and that prior to MSHCP, there were many environmental
issues.
Dennis Fahey commented on the City purchasing a number of lots on
Lakeshore Drive for a deflated price. He commented on the value of the land
increasing as one gets further away from the lake.
Tom Tomlinson of Castle and Cooke, commented on the presentation. He
indicated he was confused with the direction of the process. He expressed his
concerns with the City's CEQA process as it related to development. He
indicated that the process was hard from a developer's standpoint since they
start the process fairly early in the design of the development. They try to
coordinate the environmental concerns where they anticipate problem areas as
they go through the development. He said that he had never been fond of
preparing a lot of engineering or hopeful expectations on the side of a developer,
only to find out through a CEQA process or an Environmental Review at a later
date - which some of things can be done and other things should not be done.
He indicated that he was a little confused with where the process was going and
his understanding was that there was no change in the implementation of the
City Policy. He indicated that he and his company have enjoyed working with the
City. He said that his company had not done a lot through the MSHCP in their
processes. He said the experiences that they have had, have not been
favorable. He said one of the issues had to do with a transportation element tMat
was an exempted design infrastructure development on Nichols Road. He
expressed his concern with the time it took to get through the process with the
City LEAPS and CEQA. He claimed that if the project was not subject to the
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MSHCP, the road would be open by now. He noted that what he heard during
the presentation sounded very good and he would like to see it help
infrastructure and circulation elements.
Jim Good, Attorney for Gresham Savage Law Firm, indicated he was
representing MCA in Corona which is a tile making company. He said MCA
owned a clay and aggregate mineral property to the north of Nichols Road on the
east side of the I-15. He indicated that he had a very keen interest in the process
because MCA would be submitting an application for a mining project which
would lead to development for future commercial use. He said they were most
interested in the CEQA process. He noted that he did not know the history of
how the CEQA process had been handled. He indicated he was a mining
attorney and did not have a good handle on that kind of information. He
indicated that from a mining perspective, and where he has worked in various
counties and agencies, the process that had worked most efficiently for most
mining projects had been where the lead agency will accept a draft
Environmental Impact Report prepared by a consultant hired by the mining
applicant. He said that the draft had to be independently reviewed by the city or
lead agency. He said the process had been very efficient in regard to time and
money. He said when he reviewed the City's Policy that was adopted in 2000,
he was unclear to exactly what was meant. He indicated that one section of the
policy referred to the City having a contract prepared directly by their own
contractor. He said further on in the policy, it stated that before using a draft
prepared by another person, the lead agency shall subject the draft to the
agency's own review and analysis. He said to him, this meant that the draft had
been prepared for the City under contract or that the draft had been submitted to
the City as a proposed EIR. He noted that he reviewed how the policy fit into
State Guidelines 15084. He said State Guideline indicated that any person,
including the applicant, may submit information or comments to the lead agency
to assist in the preparation of a draft EIR and that the submittal may be
presented in any format, including the form of a draft EIR. He further noted that
the State Guideline stated that the lead agency must consider all information and
comments received and that the lead agency may chose any one of the following
arrangements or combination for preparing a draft EIR which include 1) preparing
the draft EIR directly with the agency's own staff; 2) contracting with another
entity; 3) accepting a draft prepared by the applicant, a consultant retained by the
applicant or any other person; or 4) executing a third-party contract or MOU with
the applicant to govern the preparation of a draft EIR by an independent
contractor. He said he was looking for some understanding. He inquired if it
would still be acceptable policy, on part of the City, to allow an app'licant to pay
for all the technical studies, prepare a draft, submit it to the City staff and have
the City conduct an independent review. He said he would like to see some
policy direction given along that line.
Mayor Magee requested that City Attorney Leibold comment on the policy for
third party contracts and how they are handled.
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City Attorney Leibold commented that the City's practice required that the City
contract with a CEQA consultant. She indicated that it had been the practice of
the City guidelines since 2000. She stated there was no recommendation for any
change and the policy is consistent with the CEQA statutory law.
Chairman O'Neal commented on the State CEQA guidelines in the handout
specific to Item No. 4. He said it was interesting that in the language that is
used, which stated "it shall be prepared directly by or on third party contracY'. He
said there was no mention that there are iwo other ways that it could be
prepared. He said he was referring to Section D of 15084, specific to Items Nos.
2 and 3 of the handout. He indicated Item Nos. 2 and 3 in Section D were not
mentioned in the City's Policy and that is where he felt the confusion came in.
He stated he felt Item No. 3 deals directly with the applicant hiring their own
consultant.
Assistant City Attorney McClendon commented on a split of authority. He
commented on a case out of the second district Court of Appeals which stood for
the proposition that a draft EIR can be accepted from the project applicant and
reviewed by the agency. He commented that the controlling authority for the
City's jurisdiction came from a case out of Redlands in 1999 which stated that
regardless of whether the applicant hires the City's consultant or their own, in
either event - the City has a contract with that consultant. He stated regardless
of whether the applicanYs consultant is used or the City's consultant, there
should be a contract in order to comply with the literal language of 21082.1A.
Scott Thayer of Castle & Cooke, commented on the hiring of consultants and
the challenges high profile commercial development presents. He inquired who
would withstand the funding of those challenges. He said from his perspective,
he would like the opportunity to select the consultant and hire them with the
review of the City. He said if something went wrong, he would indemnify the City
and pay for those challenges. He commented on LEAPS and inquired what
would happen if the process broke down.
Mayor Magee inquired on the process for choosing consultants. He made
reference to the City's list of approved environmental consultants and indicated
that number one on the City's list was Castle & Cooke's consultant. He inquired
if there is ever an instance where the City arbitrarily selects a consultant.
Community Development Director Preisendanz explained the' process for
choosing a consultant. He stated it was normal procedure to consult with the
applicant and ask the applicant what consultant they have used in the past. He
stated if the consultant was on the City's list, then staff would be more than
happy to go forward with the applicanYs request.
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Heidi McBroom of Corman Leigh Communities, commented on the
inconsistencies with planners on differe~t projects.
Jim Good commented on Assistant City Attorney McClendon's comments
regarding the guidelines. He said he was well aware of the Redlands case. He
further indicated that the guidelines were still considered law. He indicated that
he felt the guidelines allow the City to provide for an alternative method regarding
the preparation of a draft EIR. He urged that the policy be amended to provide
the flexibility to follow the alternative CEQA preparation approaches.
Hardy Strozier of Castle and Cooke, commented on the MSHCP and CEQA
policy. He said he has been working in the community since the early 1980's.
He believed that the MSHCP is currently adopted by the Council but not being
implemented according to the Council MSHCP Policy. He said staff currently
interprets the MSHCP based on county staff and county consultants. He said
Council instructed staff in 2004 to plan for conservation of City land in the lower
end of the acreage. He said that Council also instructed staff to balance
conservation with economic development. He said the City encouraged sound
planning, and to let the private market place drive the development according to
the General Plan. He indicated in one instance, the staff and City Attorney have
argued the county's position very forcefully to require land dedication when
Castle & Cooke had two of their Senior Biologists interpret that the MSHCP did
not require dedication of MSHCP land. He said they have recently shown that
the MSHCP baseline biology underlies the entire MSHCP. He indicated the
county, many times, are in error with regards to the habitat. He said the county's
staff position is to make determinations based on baseline biology in the MSHCP
and not withstanding what is actually in the field. They say that the field biology
does not prevail over what is written in the MSHCP. He expressed his concern
and that of the other developers and said that the City needs a policy to correct
that.
Mr. Strozier said that the county's implementing approach meant that even if the
MSHCP conservation attributes reflected in the MSHCP cell, if that cannot be
met because of incorrect biology, the county would still want conservation of the
amount of land described in the celi despite the biology facts. He said the county
was after the numbers and not after the biology and how animals can survive.
He said the county had modified their cells in linkage descriptions in Horsethief
Canyon by board policy and declined to follow strict MSHCP modification
procedures. He indicated staff has also interpreted the MSHCP as requiring the
1,374 acre Pacific Clay property, excluded by the MSHCP in mitiga'tion, to have
the former acreage be made up or transferred elsewhere in adjacent land and
cities.
Mr. Strozier believes that the City Council should prepare a new set of policy
guidelines for staff and land owners to follow in the impiementation and
interpretation of the MSHCP.
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Mr. Strozier said he was a lawyer and a planner. He said he agreed with Mr.
Good in the sense that the State Guidelines are controlling. He said that the La
Vina case clarified the State Guidelines. He recited Page 5 of the State
Guidelines, which read "before using a draft prepared by another person, the
lead agency shall subject the draft of the agency's own review and analysis. The
draft EIR which is sent out for public review must reflect the independent
judgment of the lead agency". He indicated if staff were to take on any other
approach, he would guarantee that the City would have maximum management
overload. He said the process that the City has been using, to allow the
landowner to prepare the EIR, is a tried and true process.
Commissioner Flores commented on the third party necessities and indicated
that he would like to review the contract. He inquired if there had ever been
an instance where a third party was not required.
Community Development Director Preisendanz commented that, since he
started with the City, a third party contract had always been required for
CEQA document preparation unless it was exempt.
Commissioner Flores inquired if there was another solution without a third
panY•
Community Development Director Preisendanz indicated that his guidance
came from the City Manager and the City Attorney because of the legal
implications. He noted he would defer any legal advice to be given by the
City Attorney.
Councilmember Buckley commented on the third-party issue. He stated that
a CEQA document is a City document. He stated there had to be trust in the
liability of the people preparing the CEQA documents. He stated the last 45
minutes of the conversation has been talking about issues that impacts very,
very, very few people.
Assistant City Attorney McClendon commented that the City policy is a sound
policy. He stated the policy avoids the appearance of impropriety or collusion
which was something that the presiding justice in the dissent of the La Vina
case very eloquently spoke on.
City Attorney Leibold stated that it was their interpretation, based on the
appellant court's decision governing the district, the rule is that'the City
needed to be the contracting entity. She indicated that the City would
ultimately be the one to enter into contract on the matter of control and
accountability.
Councilmember Buckley stated the City never forced a developer to pick a
particular consultant.
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City Attorney Leibold confirmed that, to her knowledge, the City had never
forced a consultant unwillingly upon a developer.
Mayor Pro Tem Hickman commented that a consultant can apply to the City
to be added to the list of consultants. He commented on Pacific Clay and the
1,400 acres that the City was supposed to make up. He further commented
on the I-15 and if the City was responsible for making up those acres for
MSHCP.
Community Development Director deferred to RCA consultant Joe Monaco
Joe Monaco, consultant to Regional Conservation Authority, commented
that relative to the Pacific Clay properties and the settlement agreement in
general, there was no specific requirement to provide an acre-for-acre
replacement of those lands. He said the MSHCP is a habitat based plan. He
said that the conservation estimates for the 146 covered species is based on
a certain reserve design that anticipated certain levels of conservation in
specific areas. He stated there are circumstances where they can not
achieve the levels that were estimated for which the permit was based on and
they needed to demonstrate that they have conservation for 146 species. He
said they were currently in the process of evaluating the effects of the
Settlement Agreement Properties and other actions and entitlements that
were issued prior to adoption of the MSHCP. He said that there may be
some additional acreage requirements. He said that those additional
requirements may or may not be within the City of Lake Elsinore. He said
that they expect to have some preliminary estimates in the coming weeks.
Councilmember Buckley asked since Pacific Clay is exempt, was it possible
that the rest of the City will have to make up for what Pacific Clay does not do
because they kept themselves out of the plan.
Joe Monaco stated that was not correct. The City did not have to make up for
what Pacific Ciay does not do.
City Manager Brady stated that staff had never stated that the 1,374 acres
needed to be replaced.
Community Development Director Preisendanz confirmed that no one was
ever told that there was acreage to make up.
Mayor Pro Tem Hickman inquired when an applicant would manually be able
to check on the progress of the project.
Community Development Director Preisendanz stated when projects first
come in, they are issued a number. He indicated that it took a lot of time to
evaluate which planner was going to get which project. He stated that the
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City was currently preparing the process to use the Navaline System. He
stated that at some point in the near future, it would be computerized. He
stated that currently the projects are logged into a book and also put into a
computer application.
Councilmember Schiffner commented on the selection of consultants and the
need to be particular about the selection.
Councilmember Kelley thanked the Planning Department for their thorough
presentation. She stated that she had never been fond of the MSHCP and
she had voted no for the MSHCP because she felt Lake Elsinore became a
huge land bank for everyone else. She stated the City of Lake Elsinore gave
up more acreage than other areas did. She stated she felt the science was
not exact. She commented that Lake Elsinore was unfairly targeted with a lot
of extra land. She inquired if projects were moving through RCA in a timely
manner.
Community Development Director Preisendanz responded the process was
moving through in a timely manner. He stated that Environmental Planner
Wendy Worthy was involved with working on CEQA and the MSHCP.
Councilmember Kelley expressed her concerns with inconsistencies between
planners.
Community Development Director Preisendanz replied the inconsistencies
that Councilmember Kelley was referring to, had to do with the
incompleteness letters within the first 30 days. He stated that the City had 30
days to deem the project complete or incomplete. He indicated that in the
past, there were incompleteness items added with the design review
comments. He stated that currently, in order to get more complete plans, all
planners have been instructed to prepare an incomplete letter within the 30
days and also provide design comments up front.
Mayor Magee commented on Mr. Strozier's statement regarding the
impiementation of the MSHCP being inconsistent with Council direction. He
noted that he remembered specifically that the City did want to err on the side
of economic development. He noted his disappointment with Mr. Monaco's
comments regarding the 1,300 acres. He indicated the City had three years
to try and figure it out. He indicated that the City needed. tp know the exact
number. He called upon the RCA to help the City get to their required
MSHCP conservation acreage as soon as possible.
Mayor Magee stated the City was to have the final say if there was an
interpretation issue. He stated the challenge from the development
community has conveyed that City staff had not been aggressive enough in
disagreeing with the RCA's interpretation.
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Community Development Director Preisendanz responded the Planning
Department had reviewed the JPR process in light of the Implementation
Agreement. He noted that the Planning DepartmenYs understanding of the
Implementation Agreement was that, through the JPR, Findings of
Consistency would come through the RCA. He stated there were some
cases where there would be a balance of development and conservation. He
noted that he did not let the RCA dictate to the City what is right and what is
wrong.
Mayor Magee commented that he would like to see things move forward
rather than languishing and if there is a dispute, he would like it to be brought
forward to the Council to make the decision, even if the recommendation is
one of denial, he would like it brought fonvard along with the facts and to get it
into the public hearing process. He expressed his concern regarding the
comment about field biology being inconsistent with what is identified on the
MSHCP. He commented that he verified information shared with him by Mr.
Strozier and was disturbed by the findings. He noted that the MSHCP calls it
one thing and the actual flora and fauna in the area is different. He stated that
the City needs a policy change for these inconsistencies.
Joe Monaco of RCA, commented on the vegetation map being updated and
that the vegetation database layer that was used in the MSHCP is not
accurate and does not reflect what is on the ground. He said the California
Department of Fish and Game recently updated the vegetation mapping,
which gave them a more current database to work off with. He said there has
not been a comprehensive comparison plan area wide of differences, such as
naming conventions used in the classification system. He said the updated
vegetation map is not substantially different from the map used to prepare the
MSHCP.
Mayor Magee questioned City Attorney Leibold regarding amending the City's
policy.
City Attorney Leibold stated that the process is outlined in MSHCP as criteria
refinement.
Mayor Magee commented that since the City is the single largest
incorporated contributor to the MSHCP, the RCA should grant the City priority
processing. Mayor Magee noted Executive Director Mullen nodding in
agreement.
Councilmember Schiffner commented that any of the problems found in the
system should be brought to the Council's attention and he would be happy to
take the problems to the RCA Board.
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Mayor Magee stated with respect to the third party contract issue, the only
policy change being suggested by the development community, that he has
heard, was from the development community and not from the City's
Attorneys, staff or City Council.
Mayor Magee indicated he has heard from Council was to keep projects
moving forward even if it meant a recommendation for denial, review for
consistency, continue to be consistent with existing Council Policy, and when
evaluating a project, continue to foster economic development.
City Manager Brady stated he wanted to assure the City Council and the
development community that staff was very aware of the need for economic
development and providing for the needs, goods, services and requirements
of the community; and providing the funds necessary to provide other
programs that the City needs.
Mayor Magee thanked everyone for their attendance and for being involved in
the discussion.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There were no public comments.
ADJOURNMENT
phe Joint City Council/Planning Commission Study S.,e~sio~~nadjourned at 7:00
m. ~~
RO~T ~. MAGE , AYOR
CITY OF~KE EL ORE /
11AICH/C~L O'NEAL, CHAIRMAN
PLANNING COMMISSION
ATTEST:
~~
ICHELLE SOTO
INTERIM CITY CLERK
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