HomeMy WebLinkAboutItem No. 1Page 1 of 22
CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES
MARCH 1, 2011
CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Gonzales called the regular meeting of the
Commission held on Tuesday, March 1, 2011, to of
Cultural Center, located at 183 N. Main Street, Lake EI;
PRESENT: Chairman Gonzales, Vice
Jordan, Commissioner Moi
ABSENT: None
Also present: City Manager Brady, City
Staff members present included
Coury, Public Works Director Seu
The
n
Absent: None
Mendoza
Jordan
Morsch
O'Neal
Or,
Jordan.
Elsinore Planning
it" 6:00 p.m. in the
CA 92530.
, Commissioner
Planning Consultant
Herrington.
PUBLIC COMMENTS — NON AGENDIZED ITEMS — 3 MINUTES
None.
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
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CONSENT CALENDAR ITEM(S)
None.
PUBLIC HEARING ITEM(S)
(1) Tentative Parcel Map No. 36304: A request to subdivide an existina 3.17
acre site into three (3) parcels within the Residential Single Family (RSF)
District the Tuscany Hills Specific Plan
Recommendation:
Adopt a resolution adopting findings that the krct is consistent
with the Multiple Species Habitat Conseryation`Plan; and,
Adopt a resolution recomme g to the City " ,�
Council Rrc�val of
T Parcel Map No. 3t gbased , i the Findingshibits
and proposed Conditions of Approval, 'i3 ''.
City Manager Brady provided ar
Planning Consultant Coury review
Planning Consultant Coury
that regarding parcel old
1.17 acres and appjdgizd'd
three (3) e- mai���re di;
identifying issues a co
Commissiorl -bal in al 0,
Specific Rlari
identife' as F
Sing eAamily
are largem
there is not)t(
are no other`d4
Commissioner
says "Estate H
of the project and requested that
:ommissr91ad answer questions.
ovided T g the project. He indicated
states 3``� acres, fh is a typo and should state
r the mist4ke. He noted that two (2) letters and
buted to t e commission prior to the meeting
fired to
gard! J the project and stated to the
ffh; there was nothing they found in the
all out any different. The categories are
lily and there is only one (1) Residential
within the Specific Plan. Although the lots
of the Tuscany Hills area, he indicated that
within t77standards Specific Plan which identifies "Estate Lots" and there
for that.
11
WI Indicated that the confusion comes in the title because it
nd ' but isn't specified in the Specific Plan.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that Commissioner O'Neal was correct and
noted that he did not have the chance to review the letter that was provided to
the Commission but stated again that the Specific Plan does not recognize
"Estate Lots ", it is Residential Single Family through out and the minimum lot size
for Residential Single Family, according to the Specific Plan, is five thousand
(5,000) square feet, but should have an average of fifty -five hundred (5,500)
square feet.
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
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He addressed the comments regarding improper noticing; the improper
Burrowing Owl Study, and the California Environment Quality Act (CEQA) issue.
Commissioner O'Neal asked if the Home Owners Association (HOA) in Tuscany
Hills does not apply.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that Commissioner O'Neal's statement was
correct and in May of 2007 approximately twenty two (22) of the "Estate Size"
lots de- annexed from the HOA.
Commissioner O'Neal asked if there was construction
Chairman Gonzales stated that there was
Commissioner O'Neal asked that if
would CEQA apply.
within
at the time.
two (2) years,
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that CE odld' not apply if iewas part of
a larger subdivision in the past two (2) years 1T�Fnoted that there was not a
subdivision, and stated that the 1 tq had already` n split well over ten (10)
years ago.
Commissioner O'Neal confirmed with r Canty t Pwo (2) years does not apply
in this particular case
Planning ConsultgCoury indicated that " {jis was correct.
Commissioner O'Neal
W;O 'At A ft exception of CEQA there is a twenty
percent (2 %)� �n sloes and i 'slope is twenty percent (20 %) or greater,
CEQA des app(
ske°dW,`,r. Coury to confirm that he looked into this.
bated that he did look into this with the City
is 14.85%.
Commissioner "Real ; stated that when rounding it off, it is basically fifty (50)
1
p ercent and five"' (,'percent less than what would allow falling into CEQA
guidelines.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that this was correct.
Vice Chairman Mendoza asked who the original owner was.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that he would check with the applicant.
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
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REQUEST TO SPEAK
Ms. Donna Holts indicated that she and her husband Raymond Holts are the
property owners at 5 Via Del Lago which is adjacent to the property in question.
She distributed a statement to the Commission and wanted to touch on the
concerns that they had about the project. The first being erosion problems; there
currently is some debris being washed down from the front of said property and
across their property when it rains. There is also some erosion on the hillside
behind their backyard; due to grading that has already been done for the "Sports
Courts" which are now being submitted to the City as % home sites. She
�g .,
indicated that they are concerned that there is alreact some erosion that is
visible; this will be exacerbated if construction is continde'k. n those two (2) pads.
�.
The second concern has to do with the propert,
a small community. There are only twenty
originally marketed by the builder, they wee :
view lots, with lots of open space.
allowed on the said property, this would set a
in that community to also subdivide which coulc
community. She noted that this *as,not the oric
to the original homeowners that bo bj into that
Ms. Holts indicated that
entire neighborhood, sp
parcel #2, new residd ti
indicated that the�vE
been done on the hill
Ms Holt s�f�eird' bd th
due dlligence was i
the stutly�was done
that wasaeady there.
Ms. Holts la� oncen
stated that they dI " 't
in Tuscany Hills.
Hills Estates is
d when it was
J to be to Homes ",
that if the division is
ce for otherAomeowners
for a higher density in that
dent or the selling incentive
they feel tha his q fit¢ s, er,'the property values in the
eclfcally their 'In ad I regarding the building for
wqd be lookirYg directly nto their backyard and so she
pri y issues She also stated that since grading has
jtura illside has bftfi cut away.
t'" Nerd ng t Environmental Study, they don't believe
in eting a fair and adequate study. This is because
t were cut, which virtually destroyed any habitat
as regarding input from the entire community. She
due diligence was done to notify all of the homeowners
Vice Chairman Mendoza asked Ms. Holts if she was an original homeowner.
Ms. Holts stated yes.
Mr. Ray Holts, 5 Via Del Lago, indicated that he didn't think that the original
grading was done to incorporate a couple of sports courts and believes that it got
"snuck" in. He also stated that he understands that the applicant has quite a bit
of property in the back and has already graded it. He also doesn't
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
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understand the CEQA guidelines relating to subdivisions and asked for an
explanation of this.
Planning Consultant Coury explained the CEQA guidelines relative to
subdivisions.
Mr. Holts wanted to know if something more could be done to change the
Tuscany Hills Specific Plan.
Commissioner O'Neal requested that Mr. Coury or the City orney address Mr.
Holts question regarding the Tuscany Hills Specific Plan,,
Mr. Holts indicated that he received the Notice of PN Slic 46'a a few days ago
and had no time to research this and this was war h�was q *oning this.
City Attorney Leibold explained what a Nsc
Estate Lots" in this case.
Chairman Gonzales stated that the gradin
also indicated that he went by the property and
graded.
Plan is and hit relates to
ing an erosion problem. He
a ed when the driveway was
Mr. Holts indicated that it was
City Attorney Leib tii`dif
il
"ted that bee any"
ny building permits are issued,
precise grading h o be dJ e to recert s the stability and compaction of said
property. She also the ° even if the p aoerty is divided, it doesn't mean that
a building permit Is Iss d thpt et?rtain qualifications have to be met.
O o%y N D
Mr. Holt asked 1 A/, l �wha ��ear that the driveway was cut in behind 7 Via Del
9
Lao � V , ,.
Public Wok Director S umalo Indicated that according to the City's records, the
grading per ".as appl §d for in May 2007 and approved in April 2009.
Mr. Holts asked if`ifwas permitted and graded in 2009.
Public Works Director Seumalo indicated yes.
Chairman Gonzales asked if Mr. Holts is currently getting a lot of erosion on his
property.
Mr. Holts stated that he has placed sandbags at the back of his property and
above his patio and pool.
Mr. Doug Pinnow, 7 Via Del Lago, property owner for the lot that is being
considered, noted that he has lived at that location since 2003. He indicated that
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
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after he moved into the home, there was an occasion where the City extended
the road on Via Del Lago, along his property line. This extension gave new
frontage and had that frontage existed when the builder (Curtis Development)
built the homes, he probably would have taken advantage of the facilities and put
a few extra homes there.
He also indicated that the homes he selected are on acre size lots or will be if
there is any building there in the future, and stated that he could probably put
more than a dozen homes there and still have been in compliance but he is
sensitive to trying to have a good appearing neighborhoodrfd chose the split of
two (2) rather than twelve (12). He said that his neigh�rdt; Mr. Holts has always
been concerned about his privacy and stated that Gore years ago when they
were still part of the Tuscany Hills Association, he4'�anted place a gazebo on
the pad. Mr. Holts opposed the location of the gaze' on the Y5 sis of his privacy
issue, and the Tuscany Hills HOA decided against�hl He s d that he took
pictures from the pad location that wou' be nearest his yar show the
Commission what it looked like. . 4
Vice Chairman Mendoza asked Mr. Pinnow what�ear he applied for the gazebo
to be placed there.
Mr. Pinnow stated that he believed that f %�'% 2004.
Vice Chairman Mend ed if the sd'ciation granted him permission to do
this. "I „ I
Mr. Pinnow stated thdZxhe Association grdkWkI him permission but indicated that
it was a concern becaY s Ulr Flolt fell A6t the gazebo location had a line of
sight
� '�
E- :F
Pinnow if he was part of the Association at
Mr. Pinnow i tated Yes and stated that the de- annexation occurred late in
2005.
Commissioner O'Neal asked Mr. Pinnow if the gazebo was built and does it exist
now.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that the gazebo was built and where the gazebo was
located. He noted that there is more than adequate space to protect Mr. Holt's
privacy and was found to be the case with the HOA years ago.
Vice Chairman Mendoza noted that Mr. Pinnow applied in 2004 for the gazebo
and the HOA approved his gazebo. In 2005 he de- annexed from the HOA and
clarified that this information should be on record and can be checked. He asked
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
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Mr. Pinnow if he de- annexed from the HOA with the intent of having his own
HOA because he couldn't do everything he wanted to do with his property. He
indicated that the twenty -two (22) lots were unique from the rest of Tuscany Hills
and they de- annexed to form an HOA.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that this was incorrect.
Vice Chairman Mendoza asked Mr. Pinnow if they were going to start their own
HOA once they de- annexed.
Mr. Pinnow indicated yes but it hadn't yet formed.
Vice Chairman Mendoza stated that he was on
Pinnow requested permission to build the gaze;
have the gazebo because it didn't meet the,PP'O'
He also stated that the RV storage, the P
dissention with the twenty -two (22) home r
they were going to de -annex from the HOA��
HOA with their own CC &Rs.
`ACCRCpmmittee when Mr.
He stated that he couldn't
of the Tu�eany Hills HOA.
and the boat ear, caused
Las a result 'l laid that
i tent of havin" their own
Mr. Pinnow indicated that this was
Vice Chairman Mendoza stated tha
indicated that twenty tw ) homes
item so that more infor " can be
Tuscany Hills ,
rect in his statement and
suggested postponing this
na the de- annexation from
Mr. Pinnow indicated ;thaWth'oexed because they couldn't find a
commong l,;ty etvu, en ther'r3 =needs, +? A'rchitectural Committee, and the original
i b
HOA. Fie noted tRa'te de' ° `' xation process was quite elaborate.
Vice Chiaitman Mendoz 'ndic ed that this was when proxy voting was allowed
�.,..,
in the Asso4ietion but is longer allowed.
Chairman Gon' no d that the HOA is not the issue but the issue is whether
to allow Mr. Pinnouto separate or not to separate.
Vice Chairman Mendoza stated that Mr. Pinnow shouldn't be permitted to
subdivide his homes because they are supposed to have their own HOA and
CC &Rs.
City Attorney Leibold indicated that this is not a City requirement.
Vice Chairman Mendoza indicated that this was their request upon de- annexing
from the HOA.
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Chairman Gonzales noted again that the HOA is not the issue regarding this
item.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that Vice Chairman Mendoza was incorrect about the
CC &R requirements.
Vice Chairman Mendoza indicated that Mr. Pinnow was required to establish
CC &Rs for those twenty -two (22) residents, and since there are none, he is able
to do what he wants to the property.
Mr. Pinnow stated that this wasn't correct; the requirem flis that were considered
were that the twenty -two (22) home owners In th( Cates" should look into
forming an Association. Subsequently, they did look'mtov' t rfning an Association
but because of the "bad taste" that was left fror��the previo „ssociation, there
was never a majority willing to form one, anq[gp 6d that Mr. P ,er, who was an
ADHOC Committee member was current the audience and could confirm
this. `�` 3
Commissioner O'Neal indicated that he was un' Q01he impression from what Mr.
Pinnow stated earlier, that the pr'; ' us HOA dic!W "'fie him permission to build
the gazebo but once the residents g of the HOA, e the gazebo.
Vice Chairman Mendoza agreed with omrpfsslor, g O' eal's statement.
z
i �� •'
Mr. Pinnow indicate,_ 'a this was incorr , and stated that the HOA did give him
approval to build tt'" azebo a1d said that he didn't understand the original HOA
and what it had to 'd Rh his Request to subdivide.
Vice Chal►anan fIF, doza�frtdlcated��t��this wasn't correct and stated that Mr.
Pinnovp bro g t i ACC Committee a fence that they disapproved
beccseof the estab $ CC
Chalrmarior�zales sugggsted continuing this item.
COMMISSIONER #S COjVIMENTS
Commissioner Joc- indicated that the Tentative Parcel Map should have a
legal description and wanted to know why there wasn't one.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that this was an oversight.
Public Works Director Seumalo indicated that Commissioner Jordan should have
a formal legal description on the map.
Commissioner Jordan stated that the legal description needs to be added. She
also requested clarification of the easement notes relating to Via Del Lago.
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Public Works Director Seumalo apologized that this wasn't explained more
clearly and noted the location of the utility boundaries.
Commissioner Jordan asked Mr. Seumalo if that was supposed to be depicted on
the map.
Public Works Director indicated yes.
Commissioner Jordan requested that staff add that to the map. She also
requested clarification regarding Condition No. 4 which,%A tes 'Prior to final
recordation of the Tentative Parcel Map ".
City Attorney Leibold indicated that the Tent,
once it is finalled and the finaling process for a
will be recorded
Commissioner Jordan asked if it is a
will be recorded.
Tentative
City Attorney Leibold indicated that it is a
Commissioner Jordan requested
Parcel Map.
City Attorney Leibold indicated to strike „the
that
Commissioner Jord irnm'� question
uestion about the grading permit, and asked if
there was a Bur )w - urvey required prior to the grading permit being
pulled. ,
Public wgT�fblrector Seum to indicate What he would research this.
Corp t�� honer Jordan2 ted tl�' �pshe was uncomfortable with the survey of the
Burrow rxg caus Owl be `oth # the surveys were done within one (1) week and
none were dt covered he also asked where the driveway location was for
Parcel 3 beca` ` she w having trouble distinguishing it.
Planning Consul, "Coury indicated that it is the common fifty -foot (50')
easement and note that it was at the end of the hammer head.
Commissioner Jordan asked if Parcel 3 was at the end of the "hammer head ".
Public Works Director Seumalo specified the location of the access driveway, the
reciprocal access driveway, and the "hammer head" on the map.
Commissioner Jordan asked if sixteen feet (16') of the driveway would be paved.
She noted that it shows that a future turnout is suppose to be twenty-six feet (26')
and when she scaled it out, it is not twenty -six feet (26') feet.
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
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Public Works Director Seumalo indicated that this is something that can be
corrected on the site plan and indicated that he wasn't sure why it was shown on
the subdivision.
Commissioner Morsch stated that he also lives in Tuscany Hills, approximately
forty -nine hundred feet (4,900') from the Mr. Pinnow's property. He stated that
when he purchased his lot in Tuscany Hills, he was under the impression that the
residents had a school, a park, a recreational center, and twelve hundred (1,200)
homes which included "Estate Size" properties. He said that he wasn't active
politically but heard some complaints about fences, and tract that the "Estate
Size Properties" or the "Estate Added Territories" were'omewhat different from
the regular R -1 lots in the rest of the community. o
He also indicated that Via Del Lago has the hig
lots and they are roughly one and a half (1
three (3) acres plus and it was not part of tl-b c
the added territory and included in the orlglnA
the residents that consented to the de annexm
were "Estate Properties" and should be consia
also referred to Title 16.20.020 whtPh states that
be compatible with lots in the surrO dJog
Also, Commissioner Morsch
states that they are bouu�
surrounding prope s 8"f6k
others and he be' s the
KRI
He noted that reaardfes':s,,c
with
compa`ti ility with they
an eas ,. t needed
way forth qty runs
R,oncenIt on of the smaller
s Mr. Pi ow property is
31 grading b6 part of
s. Further, he $t`ated that
so with the belief that these
and treated differently. He
s and arrangements shall
gntioned that l be Cit�r,o'f Lake Elsinore's code, it
to loo l�� subdivisJ'As in the context of the
;onsider t 's particular project in the context of the
.t map sho ;s twenty -four (24) very specific added
th larger lo'r>fhan all of the other lots combined.
,�;
,f the 'ecific Plan states, the people in the
eve there was going to be compatible
hat the issue he has is the size of the lots and
no
properties. He asked Mr. Pinnow why there is
; Parcel 1 in benefit of Parcel 2, and why right -of-
larcel 2.
Mr. Pinnow dlscussed location of the easements relating to Parcel 1 and 2.
He also indicates t lbefore starting the project, he had considerable dialogue
with Tom WeinerrPhe City's previous Director, who told him that the only
requirements that they had to meet were the Tuscany Hills Specific Plan, and
discussed the issue of density.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that the main issue was that the builder did not put any
fencing up and the HOA wanted the homeowners to put the fencing up at their
own expense and initially, the HOA paid the builders to put the other fences up
for the homeowners.
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
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Commissioner Morsch indicated that he recalled that the issues at the time were
that they had frontages of approximately two- hundred feet (200') to four - hundred
feet (400') and wanted white laminate fencing that looked rural. Conflict arose
once they made that request and as a result, two- thirds (2 /3rds) of the
Association agreed to release the added territory. He also indicated that since
Mr. Coury is correcting the map, he suggested changing the easement line to a
dash line to indicate the easement lines. He noted that the graphic scale is
lacking some numbers because the bar scale doesn't have numbers on it to
graphically show what the scale is and assuming the subdivision goes through,
asked if the access road is going to continue to be a grave ),load or paved road.
He referred to Condition No. 7 which states: Prior
the applicant shall submit a letter of verification (wil
utility providers to the City Engineer, for ally:
requested to add "Each lot shall have separate"'
including but not limited to sewer, water, elpgihcal,
that they are not piggybacking on sewer or a! oth
issue of grading, he indicated that he know
drainage is one of the biggest problems that his
add a condition, Condition No. 24 = kk state the foll
a grading /drainage plan to
the City Engineer.
Commissioner
responsible for
(3) lots.
Mr. Pinnow
area will r".er
mina11 cross lot
V that i road re m
rts.
the
Mr. Pinnow
of building permit,
) from appropriate
ity services, and
exclusi ' "' tility services,
and com pjcat ons ", so
lities. Also, ejarding the
bxperience that cross lot
have so he would like to
j: The applicant shall file
qg �o the satisfaction of
approved, who would be
n't be CC &Rs on the three
about the bill and noted that this
that if he moves, who would maintain
if he moved, if it split, he would maintain it.
Chris Pinnow gave��s name and address and indicated that he is the engineer
designing this plarlVand stated that the original Water Quality Management Plan
required that the owner maintain all storm water which includes the driveway and
the run off from the driveway. He noted that the road will remain a gravel road
and will be maintained by Douglas Pinnow.
Commissioner Jordan asked if sixteen (16) feet of the road will be paved.
Chris Pinnow said eventually it will be paved.
Commissioner O'Neal asked Mr. Coury to explain what a dirt sports court is.
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
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Planning Consultant Coury indicated that it is identified as a tennis court, and a
croquet court.
Commissioner O'Neal asked Mr. Coury if he followed up with Riverside County
regarding the hillside requirements.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that he didn't get a chance to contact
Riverside County regarding the City's hillside requirements but he reviewed the
requirements and stated that there was not a hillside overlay placed on this
Specific Plan in this area. A \& v
Commissioner O'Neal asked if the City of Canyon
hillside requirements.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that
Commissioner O'Neal asked if the City
courtesy notification.
Planning Consultant Coury ii
the three hundred (300) foot
Commissioner O'Neal indicated that h
is not within the three red (300)
A
would notify the Canyon t „,residen
Planning G
require this.
Planning
n
the City
was notified about the
)tified' `, a project.
�� P 1
could be ` as a
Lake was outside of
§ands tarp the City of Canyon Lake
iius bbfc wanted to know if the City
it does affect them.
City of Lake Elsinore does not
er O'N ' 'ndicat, §d�that when he and Mr. Coury discussed hillside,
about fi (15 �X nt as opposed to twenty (20) percent and
was corre
indicated that this was correct.
Commissioner a'' f stated that he has mixed feelings about this but
Commissioner Mo ch clarified some issues for him and he agrees with him
about setting precedence. He said he would consider two (2) lots but not
consider three (3) lots and recommended continuing this item because there are
various issues and concerns with a number of people that need to be addressed.
Commissioner Mendoza indicated that he agreed with Commissioner Morsch
regarding the concept for "Estate Lots" because he knows they originally sold as
"Estate Lots" and subdividing these lots was not the intent of the "Estate Homes ".
He stated that the reason that he is aware of this is because he was there before
the homes were there and when the residents wanted to de -annex and does
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
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understand why they wanted to. He encouraged Mr. Holts to start his own HOA
to get the other homeowners on board so that this doesn't go any further.
Chairman Gonzales indicated that he agreed with Mr. Morsch regarding the
"Estate" properties and said that he is against shared driveways. He asked if the
homeowner has to maintain the street afterwards and if the property is sold, will
this be part of the agreement of the sale.
Commissioner Morsch made a motion that the Commission postpone this item
and recommended to the owner that he bring back to�3the Commission an
application with a two (2) parcel map lot split with a pt'elimhary grading plan
showing the elimination of cross lot drainage He also�u�nted to include in that
motion a copy of the de- annexation documentation �"nd th ' ipulations regarding
the de- annexation and what the "Estate Homes" are tequireYl ado once they de-
annex from the HOA.�
City Attorney Leibold clarified with th4'
continue this item, it has to be continued to
date, and if it is continued to an unspecified c
m that if the , 4ffioose to
e tain, or to an" unspecified
it needs to be re- noticed.
Commissioner Morsch asked Mr. P
the materials.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that he has no
two (2) parcel sub �uisibh,' and inv
property. He not the'Cgmmis
stands currently'for hree - arce
long itW Quld take him to amend
of°OViding alternative plans for a
:,omthission to take a look at the
he believes that it is suitable as it
Commissoner Nlofsch asked, Mr. "Plnriow if he understood that he risks denial
from theO'Commissiat finder' -- tion 16.20.020.
Mr Pmn'W indicated th ''the CXfnmission will probably never face this particular
situation i , s scany Hill states again and they don't have to worry about forty
(40) new ho e! being b = It there because in the eight (8) years that he has been
there, no one els ` has ought about doing anything like this. He stated that he
was the exception "cause the City extended Via Del Lago (in front of his house)
to give new frontag" to allow the subdivision to take place.
He invited the Commission to review the records of the correspondence that he
had with the City before he began the project regarding the dual use driveway,
and conceptual plans, and noted that both were given the green light. He
indicated that a considerable amount of expenses were put in at this point and
although he does take seriously that he may face denial, he hopes that the
Commission takes seriously that he has done everything properly with the City
and if the Commission continues this, it would give them more time to review the
material.
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 14 of 22
Commissioner Morsch indicated that if Mr. Pinnow was still under the original
CC &Rs and HOA, he would not be allowed to re- subdivide his property at all
without Board and City Approval and asked if he was aware of this.
Mr. Pinnow indicated yes.
Commissioner Morsch indicated to Mr. Pinnow that the Commission has given
him some latitude in considering an application that would include a subdivision
into two (2) lots but since he wants to subdivide into three (3) lots, he is running
into compatibility issues with the City of Lake Elsinore's Munt Code.
Motion was made by Commissioner O'Neal,
Mendoza, and unanimously carried to conth
36304, a request to subdivide an existin
parcels within the Residential Single Farrfily
Hills Specific Plan, to May 3 2011
AYES: CHAIRMAN GONZALES',':,
COMMISSIONER JORDAI
COMMISSIONER O'NEAL
NOES: NONE
ABSENT:
2)
N
City Manager B
project with the
have.
by Vice Chairman
e Parcel Map No.
Ate into three (3)
i6 of,the Tuscany
_NDOZA,
MORSCH,
Residential Design Review No. 2011 -01
and proposed Conditions of Approval.
the
that Kirt Coury, Project Planner would review the
and answer any questions the Commission may
Planning Consultant Coury provided an overview of the project and indicted that
the applicant was present.
REQUEST TO SPEAK
Ms. Sondra Harris, Vice President of Planning with Richmond American Homes,
indicated that she was very excited to be back before the Commission again with
another product from Richmond American Homes in the City of Lake Elsinore.
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
Page 14 of 22
Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 15 of 22
She stated that she didn't have anything to add to Mr. Coury's presentation but
referred to Condition No. 24, which Mr. Coury spoke about in his presentation,
and requested from the Commission, approval of the California Coastal
landscape design which they are proposing on the models only and noted that
the parkway will be planted with turf and street trees and will be maintained by
the HOA.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated the California Coastal landscape design will
be an option for home buyers but the typical front yard plans that Richmond
American submitted have some turf and ground cover. ,a
Commissioner Jordan asked Ms. Harris why Xerisca a' 't something that.they
are proposing for the production because she likes4h dd_ look with the mix of
turf which gives a better street seen.
Ms. Harris indicated that they have discus id with their sale marketing
teams and the buyers are not so willingiept this in their front yards. She
stated that with the implementation of AB18$1Y�jrhich ;P%uires reduced turf, they
made the turf smaller in various communities outig_e of the City of Lake Elsinore
and got significant pushback fro= he communifW hich caused difficulty in
sales so they are not currently prop ? %, is type gpe.
Commissioner O'Neal asked Ms. Ha" �txbuyefs_would be able to request
this as an option.
Ms. Harris
Commissioner
at O'Neal suggested that Richmond
option.
tried optional landscape designs in the past
not
Chairman Go'
of landscaping:
that in his yard there is no turf, it is a wide variety
Commissioner O'Neal encouraged them to rethink this issue and referred to the
"Living Smart" product by Pardee Homes.
Commissioner Jordan indicated that this would benefit homeowners because
they would be able to save money on their water bills.
Ms. Harris indicated that she would take the Commissioner's comments back to
her team to review these options.
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
Page 15 of 22
Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 16 of 22
Vice Chairman Mendoza asked Ms. Harris if her concern is uniformity with the
other homes.
Ms. Harris indicated that if a homeowner decides to do Xeriscape later, McMillan
Development would ask the HOA to support this.
Vice Chairman Mendoza thought it would be great to have Xeriscape in the
CC &Rs if the homeowners request this.
Chairman Gonzales asked if the homes in this develo
flood insurance because they are being built in a flood
Public Works Director Seumalo addressed Chair
regarding the flood plain.
Ms. Harris also referred this question to Just", Cralg.o
Mr. Justin Craig of McMillan Development i t = > < cedi
CC &R's and flood plain issues. "
Vice Chairman Mendoza suggests
possible which are included in the
City Attorney Leibold Indicated that
s
project have alrea been " recordec
within enforceme , hts
a mi
and addressed the
landscape =guidelines be as clear as
C &Rserning all of the Summerly
the City° is the third party beneficiary
is in the recorded CC &Rs that require
covered by turf.
didn't think that there is.
Commissl MorscR Gated that if there is built -in latitude in the CC &Rs then
there is no segific date in the CC &Rs requiring turf and it is up to the
Architectural &VIP / v mittee.
COMMISSIONER". OMMENTS
Vice Chairman Mendoza indicated that all of his questions were answered
previously and welcomed the applicant to the City.
Commissioner O'Neal thanked Ms. Harris for stopping by his office to discuss this
project as well as others in the City.
Commissioner Jordan indicated she noticed that on several lots, the plotting isn't
staggered and she is concerned about the street scene and noted the similarity
required to have
question
McMillan
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 17 of 22
of architecture between Plan's S180 and S192 and noted that the City wants to
raise the bar but she doesn't think that this is raising the bar.
Commissioner Jordan discussed how she envisioned the street plan in her mind
regarding Plans S180 and S192 and noted that they don't have a lot of variation,
specifically, not having the lots staggered. She also indicated that on many of
the lots they are doing minimal front setback although she understands that the
lots are small and asked if the rear yard setback with the patio is five (5') feet.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated yes.
Commissioner Jordan indicated that she noticed on
applicant is using a stone veneer, and wanted to kri
brick or a different kind of a veneer to make tho Ic
the roof lines on the bungalow elevations �a1t
suggested that there be some architectu., _r nC
She recommended doing some kind of dtffe'rebt ston
Commissioner Morsch stated that Condition
to be clarified and also wanted cld�jfication of
Public Works Director Seumalo indidaft
and also clarified Condition No. 49 fog
Commissioner Mor Indlcaed that th
and stated that b the ne section
get out of the develo ,G ent tp he lake.
Public W rtl�s _, 11 e, or
flood ctlltlon, t
into the back basin all
Commissl Morsch
minimum ele anon to b
Public Works Diret;
elevation.
h>Vh and K elevations, the
ey are not using a
dlffe" _ . She stated that
A exa he same and
-Ints on t elevations.
i either the H;r the K.
poorly worded and needs
No. 49.
26 would be revised
just one (1) part of the development
uilt, asked how the water is going to
indf'°d"d that at the one hundred (100) year
drain to and filter through the golf course, and
that the very lowest elevation is right at the
the flood plain for FEMA which is 1,267.
indicated that 1,267 is a local required finish floor
Commissioner Morsch indicated that the water level could conceivably be 1,263
with a wave surge at 1,267 is where they are currently at and asked how the
water would get conveyed from this development, in addition to the other
developments to the lake since they are already close to the floodplain.
Public Works Director Seumalo indicated that it would be stored in the golf
course area until the water dissipates and noted that at the one hundred (100)
year flood condition, other areas at risk will be the downtown areas.
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 18 of 22
Commissioner Morsch indicated that this project is the most easterly developed
project of the phases and that most likely, everything is going to converge to
Village Parkway. He stated that the elevations of these finished floors are at the
lowest they can be to be out of the FEMA floodplain and the next development is
going to have to similarly be above 1,267. He indicated that there will be flooding
at Village Parkway and from there into the storm drain, the golf course and then
to the lake.
Public Works Director Seumalo indicated that there is a one hundred and eight
inch (108 ") pipe in Village Parkway so the storm drain systeti s are intended to go
subterranean and at the one hundred (100) year floodlevaflon, there may be
some surface flows on the streets but it will all go to a c:s the golf course which
is the planned storage and treatment area.
Commissioner Morsch stated that he believe haat Xeriscapd`b'gdscaping could
be done really well, such as creative arch) eetural elements with 'stof�e work, etc.
ms f
He noted that the only problem he has wit 's prof et is that thereare a lot of
small homes and he would be happier if a podi oofhese homes were around
twenty -two hundred (2,200) square feet and h bl�O least a four hundred (400)
foot spread between the smaller��iomes and the" IbOgger homes and this would
give the customer more of a vaney tq choose from ' that he would
like to see this in the next phase. � a��
Ms. Harris indicated t re is a h
in the City of Lake � other
%single story homes, not only
Southern California.
Commissioner for state that she wild like to see changes such as
ura
additional architect lid�Yatty� � Spanish Elevation for the S180 and the
S192, aIn know/ vhy theij are not using, a different kind of veneer on
the dlfe ent elevat<s�
Ms. Ham ddressed "imiss�o'�ner Jordan's suggestions.
Mr. Dave K n KTGY Architects introduced himself and indicated that he was
also the archlted".>pr Jahn Laing Homes as well as the Summerly models. He let
the Commissioner ow that their comments were valid and informed them that
two dimensional renderings do not give justice and the plans give better detail
regarding the different models. He said they would work with staff to enhance
the models per Commissioner Jordan's request. He discussed the benefits of
single story homes and how they will benefit the residents of the City.
Passed and adopted the following Resolution:
"Resolution No, 2011 -06 — A Resolution of the Planning Commission of the
City of Lake Elsinore, California, recommending that the City Council of the
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 19 of 22
City of Lake Elsinore adopt findings that the project is consistent with the
Multiple Species Habitat Conservation Plan ".
MOTION was made by Vice Chairman Mendoza, seconded by
Commissioner Jordan and unanimously carried recommending that the
City Council of the City of Lake Elsinore adopt findings that the project is
consistent with the Multiple Species Habitat Conservation Plan.
AYES: Chairman Gonzales, Vice Chairman Mendoza,
Commissioner Jordan, Commission"orsch,
Commissioner O'Neal
NOES: None
ABSENT: None "10P
6
ABSTAIN: None a
\. 0
�.
Passed and adopted the following Resolution
"Resolution No. 2011 -07 — A Re�grrf o of the P a n Commission of the
City of Lake Elsinore, California, i s ding t i e City Council of the
City of Lake Elsinore approve Resiylent HS si n, No. 2011 -01 and
eliminating Conditi o. 23 as Tkl 1 as 'ttmg direction from the
Commission rega - n pplican work With staff on the specifics of
the plotting and des ". y
MOTION was made rdan, seconded by Vice Chairman
Oi.,
Mendoza r�cftmo carne commending that the City Council of
the City of Lake ' r approve Residential Design Review No. 2011 -0101
and el61nating Condition N�oi<.-23 as well as getting direction from the
Commf4" n regardi a aicant to work with staff on the specifics of
the plottiftfkand facades;
AYES Cfaatrman Gonzales, Vice Chairman Mendoza,
Commissioner Jordan, Commissioner Morsch,
%Commissioner O'Neal
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: None
The Planning Commissioners thanked the applicant for their products.
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 20 of 22
Chairman Gonzales stated that he looks forward to Richmond American's
residential neighborhoods coming to the City. He also referred to the letter that
was drafted by Commissioner O'Neal on behalf of the Commissioners regarding
the City's Redevelopment Agency and asked the Commissioners if they had any
comments or questions regarding the letter.
City Attorney Leibold noted that since the letter that Commission O'Neal drafted
wasn't on the Agenda, it is for the purpose of information only and the
Commission cannot take any formal action regarding this.
Commissioner O'Neal thanked Ms. Leibold for her
stated that he welcomed any changes that the
requested that they initial if they agree and he woul
rred.
v-
City Attorney Leibold suggested that an elertronfi6 version be <'ven to Susan
Reid in the City Managers office to put on #tie letterhead a oe set up
for signature and initialing. She suggf tad that ,ommissioner - Neal also
forward a copy to the local legislators who uDi�l��be�g on the bilf She also
indicated that in the last couple of days, the legislative counsel's office said that
the Brown budget proposal to eli ate Redevelopm t was legally problematic
in light of Proposition 22 and the I i 1 l I raft of the pr'o � « e�i bill is now available
and can be provided to the Commissapn
Commissioner O'Neal t ted that if a the C'missioners wanted to add
anything to the left e wow be more' an happy to accommodate this.
Commissioner
Vice
Public
Planning Con:
contacting him
noted that this
with the letter and
might have and
the Governor.
for writing the letter.
gave the Capital Improvement Program update.
„Gi ury extended his thanks to the Commissioners for
mail and by phone regarding the parcel map project and
helped to gather and share information before the Planning
Commission meeting.
Senior Planner Harris had no comments.
Office Specialist Herrington had no comments.
City Manager Brady had no comments.
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 21 of 22
CITY ATTORNEY'S COMMENTS
City Attorney Leibold had no comments.
Commissioner Morsch thanked Commissioner O'Neal for taking the time to write
the letter to the Governor regarding the City's Redevelopment Agency and
indicated that he thought that it is important for the City's Planning Commission
to object to the dissolving of the Redevelopment Agencies. He also
congratulated Mr. Brady on the extension of his contract,&hd stated that although
it may premature, looks forward to working with him and noted that he is doing a
good job and is well respected in this community.
Commissioner Jordan thanked staff for all of
work they do. She indicated that she does
a stickler about certain things and is prote
She indicated that she would e-mail staff with
Commission meeting.
Planning Consultant Coury
respond in writing to the Coi
Commissioner
City Attorney LE
sreid @lake -elsi
and
be
e -mail
work a`nd ppreciates the
be hard on ff but she is
in the Clty's f interest.
Lions, prior toy a Planning
;god because they can
's e-mail address is:
t M§FReid put the letter he drafted on the City's
of the legislators get copies also.
'ady cdnfl , rmedffiat the letter would be completed and copies will
all leglsib' Ors as well as the City Council.
Vice Chairman M pdoza thanked staff for their hard work and also wanted to
thank John Herr6ME. the City's Information Technology Technician for his help
with setting up his „&'mail and mentioned how patient and upbeat Mr. Herrera is.
City Manager Brady indicated that Mr. Herrera is a very good employee.
Commissioner Jordan seconded that and indicated that he helped her get back
on e-mail.
Chairman Gonzales reminded the Commissioners that their Form 700 has to be
turned into the City Clerk's office.
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
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Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 22 of 22
Commissioner O'Neal stated that he did not receive the Form 700 and mentioned
that in the past it has been mailed to his home.
It was noted by staff and the Planning Commission that the next Planning
Commission meeting to be held on March 15, 2011, would be cancelled.
Chairman Gonzales closed the meeting in memory of those in Christ Church, a
Church that was destroyed in South Island, New Zealand, where he spent time in
the past.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the Ppning Commission,
Chairman Gonzales adjourned the meeting at 8-1,19 p m
The next regular meeting of the Planning` "Comr i ion of t yvUy `k gty of Lake
Elsinore is scheduled for Tuesday, May017r 2011, t 6:00 p.m it t Cultural
Center located at 183 N. Main Street, Lake Elsie re ;A- =-92530.
Respectfully
Attest:
Robert A. Brady
City Manager
PC May 3, 2011 Item No. 1
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