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CITY OF LAKE ELSINORE
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES
MARCH 1, 2011
CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Gonzales called the regular meeting of the Lake Elsinore Planning
Commission held on Tuesday, March 1, 2011, to order at 6:00 p.m. in the
Cultural Center, located at 183 N. Main Street, Lake Elsinore, CA 92530.
PRESENT: Chairman Gonzales, Vice Chairman Mendoza, Commissioner
Jordan, Commissioner Morsch, Commissioner O'Neal
ABSENT: None
Also present: City Manager Brady, City Attorney Leibold
Staff members present included: Senior Planner Harris, Planning Consultant
Coury, Public Works Director Seumalo, and Office Specialist Herrington.
CALL TO ORDER (6:00 p.m.)
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Commissioner Jordan.
ROLL CALL
Present: Chairman Gonzales
Vice Chairman Mendoza
Commissioner Jordan
Commissioner Morsch
Commissioner O'Neal
Absent: None
PUBLIC COMMENTS — NON AGENDIZED ITEMS — 3 MINUTES
None.
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Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 2 of 22
CONSENT CALENDAR ITEM(S)
None.
PUBLIC HEARING ITEM(S)
(1)
District the Tuscany Hills Specific Plan
Recommendation:
a. Adopt a resolution adopting findings that the project is consistent
with the Multiple Species Habitat Conservation Plan; and,
b. Adopt a resolution recommending to the City Council approval of
Tentative Parcel Map No. 36304 based on the Findings, Exhibits,
and proposed Conditions of Approval.
City Manager Brady provided an overview of the project and requested that
Planning Consultant Coury review it with the Commission and answer questions.
Planning Consultant Coury provided an overview of the project. He indicated
that regarding parcel 3 which states 3.17 acres; this is a typo and should state
1.17 acres and apologized for the mistake. He noted that two (2) letters and
three (3) a -mails were distributed to the Commission prior to the meeting
identifying issues and concerns regarding the project and stated to the
Commission that in all of staffs research, there was nothing they found in the
Specific Plan document that would call out any different. The categories are
identified as Residential Single Family and there is only one (1) Residential
Single Family development standard within the Specific Plan. Although the lots
are larger compared to the remainder of the Tuscany Hills area, he indicated that
there is nothing within the Specific Plan which identifies "Estate Lots" and there
are no other development standards for that.
Commissioner O'Neal indicated that the confusion comes in the title because it
says "Estate Homes" but isn't specified in the Specific Plan.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that Commissioner O'Neal was correct and
noted that he did not have the chance to review the letter that was provided to
the Commission but stated again that the Specific Plan does not recognize
"Estate Lots", it is Residential Single Family through out and the minimum lot size
for Residential Single Family, according to the Specific Plan, is five thousand
(5,000) square feet, but should have an average of fifty -five hundred (5,500)
square feet.
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Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 3 of 22
He addressed the comments regarding improper noticing; the improper
Burrowing Owl Study, and the California Environment Quality Act (CEQA) issue.
Commissioner O'Neal asked if the Home Owners Association (HOA) in Tuscany
Hills does not apply.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that Commissioner O'Neal's statement was
correct and in May of 2007 approximately twenty two (22) of the "Estate Size"
lots de- annexed from the HOA.
Commissioner O'Neal asked if there was construction on those lots at the time.
Chairman Gonzales stated that there was construction.
Commissioner O'Neal asked that if construction was within the last two (2) years,
would CEQA apply.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that CEQA would not apply if it was part of
a larger subdivision in the past two (2) years and noted that there was not a
subdivision, and stated that the lots had already been split well over ten (10)
years ago.
Commissioner O'Neal confirmed with Mr. Coury that two (2) years does not apply
in this particular case.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that this was correct.
Commissioner O'Neal indicated that with the exception of CEQA there is a twenty
percent (20 %) rule on slopes and if the slope is twenty percent (20 %) or greater,
CEQA does apply and asked Mr. Coury to confirm that he looked into this.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that he did look into this with the City
Engineer and the average slope is 14.85 %.
Commissioner O'Neal stated that when rounding it off, it is basically fifty (50)
percent and five (5) percent less than what would allow falling into CEQA
guidelines.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that this was correct.
Vice Chairman Mendoza asked who the original owner was.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that he would check with the applicant.
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Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
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REQUEST TO SPEAK
Ms. Donna Holts indicated that she and her husband Raymond Holts are the
property owners at 5 Via Del Lago which is adjacent to the property in question.
She distributed a statement to the Commission and wanted to touch on the
concerns that they had about the project. The first being erosion problems; there
currently is some debris being washed down from the front of said property and
across their property when it rains. There is also some erosion on the hillside
behind their backyard; due to grading that has already been done for the "Sports
Courts" which are now being submitted to the City as new home sites. She
indicated that they are concerned that there is already some erosion that is
visible; this will be exacerbated if construction is continued on those two (2) pads.
The second concern has to do with the property value. Tuscany Hills Estates is
a small community. There are only twenty -two (22) homes and when it was
originally marketed by the builder, they were supposed to be "Estate Homes ",
view lots, with lots of open space. Ms. Holts stated that if the subdivision is
allowed on the said property, this would set a precedence for other homeowners
in that community to also subdivide which could allow for a higher density in that
community. She noted that this was not the original intent or the selling incentive
to the original homeowners that bought into that community.
Ms. Holts indicated that they feel that this could lower the property values in the
entire neighborhood, specifically their lot. In addition, regarding the building for
parcel #2, new residents would be looking directly into their backyard and so she
indicated that they have privacy issues. She also stated that since grading has
been done on the hill, natural hillside has been cut away.
Ms. Holts indicated that regarding the Environmental Study, they don't believe
due diligence was used in completing a fair and adequate study. This is because
the study was done after the pads were cut, which virtually destroyed any habitat
that was already there.
Ms. Holts last concern was regarding input from the entire community. She
stated that they didn't feel due diligence was done to notify all of the homeowners
in Tuscany Hills.
Vice Chairman Mendoza asked Ms. Holts if she was an original homeowner.
Ms. Holts stated yes.
Mr. Ray Holts, 5 Via Del Lago, indicated that he didn't think that the original
grading was done to incorporate a couple of sports courts and believes that it got
"snuck" in. He also stated that he understands that the applicant has quite a bit
of property in the back and has already graded it. He also doesn't
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Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
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understand the CEQA guidelines relating to subdivisions and asked for an
explanation of this.
Planning Consultant Coury explained the CEQA guidelines relative to
subdivisions.
Mr. Holts wanted to know if something more could be done to change the
Tuscany Hills Specific Plan.
Commissioner O'Neal requested that Mr. Coury or the City Attorney address Mr.
Holts question regarding the Tuscany Hills Specific Plan.
Mr. Holts indicated that he received the Notice of Public Hearing a few days ago
and had no time to research this and this was why he was questioning this.
City Attorney Leibold explained what a Specific Plan is and how it relates to
"Estate Lots" in this case.
Chairman Gonzales stated that the grading is creating an erosion problem. He
also indicated that he went by the property and asked when the driveway was
graded.
Mr. Holts indicated that it was graded in 2007.
City Attorney Leibold indicated that before any building permits are issued,
precise grading has to be done to recertify the stability and compaction of said
property. She also stated that even if the property is divided, it doesn't mean that
a building permit is issued and noted that certain qualifications have to be met.
Mr. Holts asked if staff what year that the driveway was cut in behind 7 Via Del
Lago.
Public Works Director Seumalo indicated that according to the City's records, the
grading permit was applied for in May 2007 and approved in April 2009.
Mr. Holts asked if it was permitted and graded in 2009.
Public Works Director Seumalo indicated yes.
Chairman Gonzales asked if Mr. Holts is currently getting a lot of erosion on his
property.
Mr. Holts stated that he has placed sandbags at the back of his property and
above his patio and pool.
Mr. Doug Pinnow, 7 Via Del Lago, property owner for the lot that is being
considered, noted that he has lived at that location since 2003. He indicated that
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Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 6 of 22
after he moved into the home, there was an occasion where the City extended
the road on Via Del Lago, along his property line. This extension gave new
frontage and had that frontage existed when the builder (Curtis Development)
built the homes, he probably would have taken advantage of the facilities and put
a few extra homes there.
He also indicated that the homes he selected are on acre size lots or will be if
there is any building there in the future, and stated that he could probably put
more than a dozen homes there and still have been in compliance but he is
sensitive to trying to have a good appearing neighborhood and chose the split of
two (2) rather than twelve (12). He said that his neighbor, Mr. Holts has always
been concerned about his privacy and stated that some years ago when they
were still part of the Tuscany Hills Association, he wanted to place a gazebo on
the pad. Mr. Holts opposed the location of the gazebo on the basis of his privacy
issue, and the Tuscany Hills HOA decided against him. He stated that he took
pictures from the pad location that would be nearest his yard to show the
Commission what it looked like.
Vice Chairman Mendoza asked Mr. Pinnow what year he applied for the gazebo
to be placed there.
Mr. Pinnow stated that he believed that it was in 2004.
Vice Chairman Mendoza asked if the Association granted him permission to do
this.
Mr. Pinnow stated that the Association granted him permission but indicated that
it was a concern because Mr. Holts felt that the gazebo location had a line of
sight.
Vice Chairman Mendoza asked Mr. Pinnow if he was part of the Association at
that time.
Mr. Pinnow indicated yes and stated that the de- annexation occurred late in
2005.
Commissioner O'Neal asked Mr. Pinnow if the gazebo was built and does it exist
now.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that the gazebo was built and where the gazebo was
located. He noted that there is more than adequate space to protect Mr. Holt's
privacy and was found to be the case with the HOA years ago.
Vice Chairman Mendoza noted that Mr. Pinnow applied in 2004 for the gazebo
and the HOA approved his gazebo. In 2005 he de- annexed from the HOA and
clarified that this information should be on record and can be checked. He asked
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Mr. Pinnow if he de- annexed from the HOA with the intent of having his own
HOA because he couldn't do everything he wanted to do with his property. He
indicated that the twenty -two (22) lots were unique from the rest of Tuscany Hills
and they de- annexed to form an HOA.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that this was incorrect.
Vice Chairman Mendoza asked Mr. Pinnow if they were going to start their own
HOA once they de- annexed.
Mr. Pinnow indicated yes but it hadn't yet formed.
Vice Chairman Mendoza stated that he was on the ACC Committee when Mr.
Pinnow requested permission to build the gazebo. He stated that he couldn't
have the gazebo because it didn't meet the CC &Rs of the Tuscany Hills HOA.
He also stated that the RV storage, the RV Park, and the boat park caused
dissention with the twenty -two (22) homeowners and as a result they said that
they were going to de -annex from the HOA with the intent of having their own
HOA with their own CC &Rs.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that this was not correct.
Vice Chairman Mendoza stated that he wasn't incorrect in his statement and
indicated that twenty -two (22) homes de- annexed. He suggested postponing this
item so that more information can be gathered regarding the de- annexation from
Tuscany Hills.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that they de- annexed because they couldn't find a
commonality between their needs, the Architectural Committee, and the original
HOA. He noted that the de- annexation process was quite elaborate.
Vice Chairman Mendoza indicated that this was when proxy voting was allowed
in the Association but is no longer allowed.
Chairman Gonzales noted that the HOA is not the issue but the issue is whether
to allow Mr. Pinnow to separate or not to separate.
Vice Chairman Mendoza stated that Mr. Pinnow shouldn't be permitted to
subdivide his homes because they are supposed to have their own HOA and
CC &Rs.
City Attorney Leibold indicated that this is not a City requirement.
Vice Chairman Mendoza indicated that this was their request upon de- annexing
from the HOA.
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Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
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Chairman Gonzales noted again that the HOA is not the issue regarding this
item.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that Vice Chairman Mendoza was incorrect about the
CC &R requirements.
Vice Chairman Mendoza indicated that Mr. Pinnow was required to establish
CC &Rs for those twenty -two (22) residents, and since there are none, he is able
to do what he wants to the property.
Mr. Pinnow stated that this wasn't correct; the requirements that were considered
were that the twenty -two (22) home owners in the "Estates" should look into
forming an Association. Subsequently, they did look into forming an Association
but because of the "bad taste" that was left from the previous Association, there
was never a majority willing to form one, and noted that Mr. Porter, who was an
ADHOC Committee member was currently in the audience and could confirm
this.
Commissioner O'Neal indicated that he was under the impression from what Mr.
Pinnow stated earlier, that the previous HOA didn't give him permission to build
the gazebo but once the residents got out of the HOA, he built the gazebo.
Vice Chairman Mendoza agreed with Commissioner O'Neal's statement.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that this was incorrect and stated that the HOA did give him
approval to build the gazebo and said that he didn't understand the original HOA
and what it had to do with his request to subdivide.
Vice Chairman Mendoza indicated that this wasn't correct and stated that Mr.
Pinnow also brought up to the ACC Committee a fence that they disapproved
because of the established CC &Rs.
Chairman Gonzales suggested continuing this item.
COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Jordan indicated that the Tentative Parcel Map should have a
legal description and wanted to know why there wasn't one.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that this was an oversight.
Public Works Director Seumalo indicated that Commissioner Jordan should have
a formal legal description on the map.
Commissioner Jordan stated that the legal description needs to be added. She
also requested clarification of the easement notes relating to Via Del Lago.
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Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
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Public Works Director Seumalo apologized that this wasn't explained more
clearly and noted the location of the utility boundaries.
Commissioner Jordan asked Mr. Seumalo if that was supposed to be depicted on
the map.
Public Works Director indicated yes.
Commissioner Jordan requested that staff add that to the map. She also
requested clarification regarding Condition No. 4 which states "Prior to final
recordation of the Tentative Parcel Map ".
City Attorney Leibold indicated that the Tentative Parcel Map will be recorded
once it is finalled and the finaling process for a parcel map is Administrative.
Commissioner Jordan asked if it is a Parcel Map or a Tentative Parcel Map that
will be recorded.
City Attorney Leibold indicated that it is a Parcel Map.
Commissioner Jordan requested that this be corrected to say Parcel Map
City Attorney Leibold indicated to strike the word Tentative.
Commissioner Jordan had a question about the grading permit, and asked if
there was a Burrowing Owl Survey required prior to the grading permit being
pulled.
Public works Director Seumalo indicated that he would research this.
Commissioner Jordan stated that she was uncomfortable with the survey of the
Burrowing Owl because both of the surveys were done within one (1) week and
none were discovered. She also asked where the driveway location was for
Parcel 3 because she was having trouble distinguishing it.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that it is the common fifty -foot (50')
easement and noted that it was at the end of the hammer head.
Commissioner Jordan asked if Parcel 3 was at the end of the "hammer head ".
Public Works Director Seumalo specified the location of the access driveway, the
reciprocal access driveway, and the "hammer head" on the map.
Commissioner Jordan asked if sixteen feet (16') of the driveway would be paved.
She noted that it shows that a future turnout is suppose to be twenty -six feet (26')
and when she scaled it out, it is not twenty -six feet (26') feet.
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Public Works Director Seumalo indicated that this is something that can be
corrected on the site plan and indicated that he wasn't sure why it was shown on
the subdivision.
Commissioner Morsch stated that he also lives in Tuscany Hills, approximately
forty -nine hundred feet (4,900') from the Mr. Pinnow's property. He stated that
when he purchased his lot in Tuscany Hills, he was under the impression that the
residents had a school, a park, a recreational center, and twelve hundred (1,200)
homes which included "Estate Size" properties. He said that he wasn't active
politically but heard some complaints about fences, and the fact that the "Estate
Size Properties" or the "Estate Added Territories" were somewhat different from
the regular R -1 lots in the rest of the community.
He also indicated that Via Del Lago has the highest concentration of the smaller
lots and they are roughly one and a half (1 '' /2) acres. Mr. Pinnow's property is
three (3) acres plus and it was not part of the original grading but it was part of
the added territory and included in the original CC &Rs. Further, he stated that
the residents that consented to the de- annexation did so with the belief that these
were "Estate Properties" and should be considered and treated differently. He
also referred to Title 16.20.020 which states that lot sizes and arrangements shall
be compatible with lots in the surrounding area.
Also, Commissioner Morsch mentioned that in the City of Lake Elsinore's code, it
states that they are bound to look at subdivisions in the context of the
surrounding properties and to consider this particular project in the context of the
others and he believes the tract map shows twenty -four (24) very specific added
territories that were created with larger lots than all of the other lots combined.
He noted that regardless of what the Specific Plan states, the people in the
community assumed that whatever was done there was going to be compatible
with that area and indicated that the issue he has is the size of the lots and
compatibility with the neighboring properties. He asked Mr. Pinnow why there is
an easement needed to cross Parcel 1 in benefit of Parcel 2, and why right -of-
way for the utility runs beyond Parcel 2.
Mr. Pinnow discussed the location of the easements relating to Parcel 1 and 2.
He also indicated that before starting the project, he had considerable dialogue
with Tom Weiner, the City's previous Director, who told him that the only
requirements that they had to meet were the Tuscany Hills Specific Plan, and
discussed the issue of density.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that the main issue was that the builder did not put any
fencing up and the HOA wanted the homeowners to put the fencing up at their
own expense and initially, the HOA paid the builders to put the other fences up
for the homeowners.
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Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 11 of 22
Commissioner Morsch indicated that he recalled that the issues at the time were
that they had frontages of approximately two- hundred feet (200') to four - hundred
feet (400') and wanted white laminate fencing that looked rural. Conflict arose
once they made that request and as a result, two- thirds (2 /3rds) of the
Association agreed to release the added territory. He also indicated that since
Mr. Coury is correcting the map, he suggested changing the easement line to a
dash line to indicate the easement lines. He noted that the graphic scale is
lacking some numbers because the bar scale doesn't have numbers on it to
graphically show what the scale is and assuming the subdivision goes through,
asked if the access road is going to continue to be a gravel road or paved road.
He referred to Condition No. 7 which states: Prior to issuance of building permit,
the applicant shall submit a letter of verification (will -serve letter) from appropriate
utility providers to the City Engineer, for all required utility services, and
requested to add "Each lot shall have separate and exclusive utility services,
including but not limited to sewer, water, electrical, gas, and communications ", so
that they are not piggybacking on sewer or any other utilities. Also, regarding the
issue of grading, he indicated that he knows from experience that cross lot
drainage is one of the biggest problems that his clients have so he would like to
add a condition, Condition No. 24a to state the following: The applicant shall file
a grading /drainage plan to eliminate all cross lot drainage to the satisfaction of
the City Engineer.
Commissioner Jordan stated that if this project gets approved, who would be
responsible for maintaining the road since there wouldn't be CC &Rs on the three
(3) lots.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that he has no qualms about the bill and noted that this
area will remain as Sports Courts.
Commissioner Jordan asked Mr. Pinnow that if he moves, who would maintain
the driveway.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that even if he moved, if it split, he would maintain it.
Chris Pinnow gave his name and address and indicated that he is the engineer
designing this plan and stated that the original Water Quality Management Plan
required that the owner maintain all storm water which includes the driveway and
the run off from the driveway. He noted that the road will remain a gravel road
and will be maintained by Douglas Pinnow.
Commissioner Jordan asked if sixteen (16) feet of the road will be paved.
Chris Pinnow said eventually it will be paved.
Commissioner O'Neal asked Mr. Coury to explain what a dirt sports court is.
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Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
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Planning Consultant Coury indicated that it is identified as a tennis court, and a
croquet court.
Commissioner O'Neal asked Mr. Coury if he followed up with Riverside County
regarding the hillside requirements.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that he didn't get a chance to contact
Riverside County regarding the City's hillside requirements but he reviewed the
requirements and stated that there was not a hillside overlay placed on this
Specific Plan in this area.
Commissioner O'Neal asked if the City of Canyon Lake was notified about the
hillside requirements.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that they were not notified of the project.
Commissioner O'Neal asked if the City of Canyon Lake could be included as a
courtesy notification.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that the City of Canyon Lake was outside of
the three hundred (300) foot radius for notification.
Commissioner O'Neal indicated that he understands that the City of Canyon Lake
is not within the three hundred (300) foot radius but wanted to know if the City
would notify the Canyon Lake residents since it does affect them.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that the City of Lake Elsinore does not
require this.
Commissioner O'Neal indicated that when he and Mr. Coury discussed hillside,
they talked about fifteen (15) percent as opposed to twenty (20) percent and
asked if this was correct.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that this was correct.
Commissioner O'Neal stated that he has mixed feelings about this but
Commissioner Morsch clarified some issues for him and he agrees with him
about setting precedence. He said he would consider two (2) lots but not
consider three (3) lots and recommended continuing this item because there are
various issues and concerns with a number of people that need to be addressed.
Commissioner Mendoza indicated that he agreed with Commissioner Morsch
regarding the concept for "Estate Lots" because he knows they originally sold as
"Estate Lots" and subdividing these lots was not the intent of the "Estate Homes ".
He stated that the reason that he is aware of this is because he was there before
the homes were there and when the residents wanted to de -annex and does
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Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 13 of 22
understand why they wanted to. He encouraged Mr. Holts to start his own HOA
to get the other homeowners on board so that this doesn't go any further.
Chairman Gonzales indicated that he agreed with Mr. Morsch regarding the
"Estate" properties and said that he is against shared driveways. He asked if the
homeowner has to maintain the street afterwards and if the property is sold, will
this be part of the agreement of the sale.
Commissioner Morsch made a motion that the Commission postpone this item
and recommended to the owner that he bring back to the Commission an
application with a two (2) parcel map lot split with a preliminary grading plan
showing the elimination of cross lot drainage. He also wanted to include in that
motion a copy of the de- annexation documentation and the stipulations regarding
the de- annexation and what the "Estate Homes" are required to do once they de-
annex from the HOA.
City Attorney Leibold clarified with the Commission that if they choose to
continue this item, it has to be continued to a date certain, or to an unspecified
date, and if it is continued to an unspecified date then it needs to be re- noticed.
Commissioner Morsch asked Mr. Pinnow how long it would take him to amend
the materials.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that he has no intension of providing alternative plans for a
two (2) parcel subdivision, and invited the Commission to take a look at the
property. He noted to the Commission that he believes that it is suitable as it
stands currently for a three (3) parcel subdivision.
Commissioner Morsch asked Mr. Pinnow if he understood that he risks denial
from the Commission under Section 16.20.020.
Mr. Pinnow indicated that the Commission will probably never face this particular
situation in Tuscany Hills Estates again and they don't have to worry about forty
(40) new homes being built there because in the eight (8) years that he has been
there, no one else has thought about doing anything like this. He stated that he
was the exception because the City extended Via Del Lago (in front of his house)
to give new frontage to allow the subdivision to take place.
He invited the Commission to review the records of the correspondence that he
had with the City before he began the project regarding the dual use driveway,
and conceptual plans, and noted that both were given the green light. He
indicated that a considerable amount of expenses were put in at this point and
although he does take seriously that he may face denial, he hopes that the
Commission takes seriously that he has done everything properly with the City
and if the Commission continues this, it would give them more time to review the
material.
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Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 14 of 22
Commissioner Morsch indicated that if Mr. Pinnow was still under the original
CC &Rs and HOA, he would not be allowed to re- subdivide his property at all
without Board and City Approval and asked if he was aware of this.
Mr. Pinnow indicated yes.
Commissioner Morsch indicated to Mr. Pinnow that the Commission has given
him some latitude in considering an application that would include a subdivision
into two (2) lots but since he wants to subdivide into three (3) lots, he is running
into compatibility issues with the City of Lake Elsinore's Municipal Code.
Motion was made by Commissioner O'Neal, seconded by Vice Chairman
Mendoza, and unanimously carried to continue Tentative Parcel Map No.
36304, a request to subdivide an existing 3.17 acre site into three (3)
parcels within the Residential Single Family (RSF) District of the Tuscany
Hills Specific Plan, to May 3 2011.
AYES: CHAIRMAN GONZALES, VICE CHAIRMAN MENDOZA,
COMMISSIONER JORDAN, COMMISSIONER MORSCH,
COMMISSIONER O'NEAL
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: NONE
2) Residential Design Review No.2011 -01. for the "Northstar" project within
the neighborhood No. 4 of the Summerly Lake Elsinore Development
of the East Lake Specific Plan Amendment No 6
Recommendation:
Adopt a resolution approving Residential Design Review No. 2011 -01
based on the Findings, Exhibits, and proposed Conditions of Approval.
City Manager Brady indicated that Kirt Coury, Project Planner would review the
project with the Commission and answer any questions the Commission may
have.
Planning Consultant Coury provided an overview of the project and indicted that
the applicant was present.
REQUEST TO SPEAK
Ms. Sondra Harris, Vice President of Planning with Richmond American Homes,
indicated that she was very excited to be back before the Commission again with
another product from Richmond American Homes in the City of Lake Elsinore.
Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 15 of 22
She stated that she didn't have anything to add to Mr. Coury's presentation but
referred to Condition No. 24, which Mr. Coury spoke about in his presentation,
and requested from the Commission, approval of the California Coastal
landscape design which they are proposing on the models only and noted that
the parkway will be planted with turf and street trees and will be maintained by
the HOA.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated the California Coastal landscape design will
be an option for home buyers but the typical front yard plans that Richmond
American submitted have some turf and ground cover.
Commissioner Jordan asked Ms. Harris why Xeriscape isn't something that they
are proposing for the production because she likes the desert look with the mix of
turf which gives a better street seen.
Ms. Harris indicated that they have discussed this with their sales and marketing
teams and the buyers are not so willing to accept this in their front yards. She
stated that with the implementation of AB1881 which requires reduced turf, they
made the turf smaller in various communities outside of the City of Lake Elsinore
and got significant pushback from the communities which caused difficulty in
sales so they are not currently proposing this type of landscape.
Commissioner O'Neal asked Ms. Harris if the buyers would be able to request
this as an option.
Ms. Harris indicated no.
Commissioner Jordan and Commissioner O'Neal suggested that Richmond
American should present Xeriscape as an option.
Ms. Harris indicated that they have tried optional landscape designs in the past
and they have not been successful.
Chairman Gonzales indicated that in his yard there is no turf, it is a wide variety
of landscaping.
Commissioner O'Neal encouraged them to rethink this issue and referred to the
"Living Smart" product by Pardee Homes.
Commissioner Jordan indicated that this would benefit homeowners because
they would be able to save money on their water bills.
Ms. Harris indicated that she would take the Commissioner's comments back to
her team to review these options.
Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 16 of 22
Vice Chairman Mendoza asked Ms. Harris if her concern is uniformity with the
other homes.
Ms. Harris indicated that if a homeowner decides to do Xeriscape later, McMillan
Development would ask the HOA to support this.
Vice Chairman Mendoza thought it would be great to have Xeriscape in the
CC &Rs if the homeowners request this.
Chairman Gonzales asked if the homes in this development are required to have
flood insurance because they are being built in a flood plain.
Public Works Director Seumalo addressed Chairman Gonzales's question
regarding the flood plain.
Ms. Harris also referred this question to Justin Craig of McMillan Development.
Mr. Justin Craig of McMillan Development introduced himself and addressed the
CC &R's and flood plain issues.
Vice Chairman Mendoza suggested that the landscape guidelines be as clear as
possible which are included in the CC &Rs.
City Attorney Leibold indicated that the CC &Rs governing all of the Summerly
project have already been recorded and the City is the third party beneficiary
within enforcement rights.
Commissioner Morsch asked if a provision is in the recorded CC &Rs that require
a minimum percentage of front yards to be covered by turf.
City Attorney Leibold indicated that she didn't think that there is.
Commissioner Morsch indicated that if there is built -in latitude in the CC &Rs then
there is no specific mandate in the CC &Rs requiring turf and it is up to the
Architectural Review Committee.
COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Vice Chairman Mendoza indicated that all of his questions were answered
previously and welcomed the applicant to the City.
Commissioner O'Neal thanked Ms. Harris for stopping by his office to discuss this
project as well as others in the City.
Commissioner Jordan indicated she noticed that on several lots, the plotting isn't
staggered and she is concerned about the street scene and noted the similarity
Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 17 of 22
of architecture between Plan's S180 and S192 and noted that the City wants to
raise the bar but she doesn't think that this is raising the bar.
Commissioner Jordan discussed how she envisioned the street plan in her mind
regarding Plans S180 and S192 and noted that they don't have a lot of variation,
specifically, not having the lots staggered. She also indicated that on many of
the lots they are doing minimal front setback although she understands that the
lots are small and asked if the rear yard setback with the patio is five (5') feet.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated yes.
Commissioner Jordan indicated that she noticed on the H and K elevations, the
applicant is using a stone veneer, and wanted to know why they are not using a
brick or a different kind of a veneer to make those look different. She stated that
the roof lines on the bungalow elevations are almost exactly the same and
suggested that there be some architectural enhancements on the D elevations.
She recommended doing some kind of different stone on either the H or the K.
Commissioner Morsch stated that Condition No. 26 is poorly worded and needs
to be clarified and also wanted clarification of Condition No. 49.
Public Works Director Seumalo indicated that Condition No. 26 would be revised
and also clarified Condition No. 49 for Commissioner Morsch.
Commissioner Morsch indicated that this is just one (1) part of the development
and stated that before the next section is built, asked how the water is going to
get out of the development to the lake.
Public Works Director Seumalo indicated that at the one hundred (100) year
flood condition, the water would drain to and filter through the golf course, and
into the back basin area.
Commissioner Morsch stated that the very lowest elevation is right at the
minimum elevation to be above the flood plain for FEMA which is 1,267.
Public Works Director Seumalo indicated that 1,267 is a local required finish floor
elevation.
Commissioner Morsch indicated that the water level could conceivably be 1,263
with a wave surge at 1,267 is where they are currently at and asked how the
water would get conveyed from this development, in addition to the other
developments to the lake since they are already close to the floodplain.
Public Works Director Seumalo indicated that it would be stored in the golf
course area until the water dissipates and noted that at the one hundred (100)
year flood condition, other areas at risk will be the downtown areas.
Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 18 of 22
Commissioner Morsch indicated that this project is the most easterly developed
project of the phases and that most likely, everything is going to converge to
Village Parkway. He stated that the elevations of these finished floors are at the
lowest they can be to be out of the FEMA floodplain and the next development is
going to have to similarly be above 1,267. He indicated that there will be flooding
at Village Parkway and from there into the storm drain, the golf course and then
to the lake.
Public Works Director Seumalo indicated that there is a one hundred and eight
inch (108 ") pipe in Village Parkway so the storm drain systems are intended to go
subterranean and at the one hundred (100) year flood elevation, there may be
some surface flows on the streets but it will all go towards the golf course which
is the planned storage and treatment area.
Commissioner Morsch stated that he believes that Xeriscape landscaping could
be done really well, such as creative architectural elements with stone work, etc.
He noted that the only problem he has with this project is that there are a lot of
small homes and he would be happier if a portion of these homes were around
twenty-two hundred (2,200) square feet and had at least a four hundred (400)
foot spread between the smaller homes and the larger homes and this would
give the customer more of a variety to choose from. He indicated that he would
like to see this in the next phase.
Ms. Harris indicated that there is a huge demand for single story homes, not only
in the City of Lake Elsinore but other communities in Southern California.
Commissioner Jordan stated that she would like to see changes such as
additional architectural elements to the Spanish Elevation for the S180 and the
S192, and wanted to know why they are not using a different kind of veneer on
the different elevations.
Ms. Harris addressed Commissioner Jordan's suggestions
Mr. Dave Ken of KTGY Architects introduced himself and indicated that he was
also the architect for John Laing Homes as well as the Summerly models. He let
the Commissioners know that their comments were valid and informed them that
two dimensional renderings do not give justice and the plans give better detail
regarding the different models. He said they would work with staff to enhance
the models per Commissioner Jordan's request. He discussed the benefits of
single story homes and how they will benefit the residents of the City.
Passed and adopted the following Resolution:
"Resolution No. 2011 -06 — A Resolution of the Planning Commission of the
City of Lake Elsinore, California, recommending that the City Council of the
Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 19 of 22
City of Lake Elsinore adopt findings that the project is consistent with the
Multiple Species Habitat Conservation Plan ".
MOTION was made by Vice Chairman Mendoza, seconded by
Commissioner Jordan and unanimously carried recommending that the
City Council of the City of Lake Elsinore adopt findings that the project is
consistent with the Multiple Species Habitat Conservation Plan.
AYES: Chairman Gonzales, Vice Chairman Mendoza,
Commissioner Jordan, Commissioner Morsch,
Commissioner O'Neal
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: None
Passed and adopted the following Resolution:
"Resolution No. 2011 -07 — A Resolution of the Planning Commission of the
City of Lake Elsinore, California, recommending that the City Council of the
City of Lake Elsinore approve Residential Design Review No. 2011 -01 and
eliminating Condition No. 23 as well as getting direction from the
Commission regarding the applicant to work with staff on the specifics of
the plotting and facades ".
MOTION was made by Commissioner Jordan, seconded by Vice Chairman
Mendoza and unanimously carried recommending that the City Council of
the City of Lake Elsinore approve Residential Design Review No. 2011 -0101
and eliminating Condition No. 23 as well as getting direction from the
Commission regarding the applicant to work with staff on the specifics of
the plotting and facades.
AYES: Chairman Gonzales, Vice Chairman Mendoza,
Commissioner Jordan, Commissioner Morsch,
Commissioner O'Neal
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: None
The Planning Commissioners thanked the applicant for their products.
Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 20 of 22
Chairman Gonzales stated that he looks forward to Richmond American's
residential neighborhoods coming to the City. He also referred to the letter that
was drafted by Commissioner O'Neal on behalf of the Commissioners regarding
the City's Redevelopment Agency and asked the Commissioners if they had any
comments or questions regarding the letter.
City Attorney Leibold noted that since the letter that Commission O'Neal drafted
wasn't on the Agenda, it is for the purpose of information only and the
Commission cannot take any formal action regarding this.
Commissioner O'Neal thanked Ms. Leibold for her assistance with the letter and
stated that he welcomed any changes that the Commission might have and
requested that they initial if they agree and he would forward to the Governor.
City Attorney Leibold suggested that an electronic version be given to Susan
Reid in the City Manager's office to put on the City's letterhead and to be set up
for signature and initialing. She suggested that Commissioner O'Neal also
forward a copy to the local legislators who will be voting on the bill. She also
indicated that in the last couple of days, the legislative counsel's office said that
the Brown budget proposal to eliminate Redevelopment was legally problematic
in light of Proposition 22 and the initial draft of the proposed bill is now available
and can be provided to the Commission.
Commissioner O'Neal stated that if any of the Commissioners wanted to add
anything to the letter, he would be more than happy to accommodate this.
Commissioner Jordan thanked Commissioner O'Neal for writing the letter
Vice Chairman Mendoza stated that he concurred.
STAFF COMMENTS
Public Works Director Seumalo gave the Capital Improvement Program update.
Planning Consultant Coury extended his thanks to the Commissioners for
contacting him by e-mail and by phone regarding the parcel map project and
noted that this really helped to gather and share information before the Planning
Commission meeting.
Senior Planner Harris had no comments.
Office Specialist Herrington had no comments.
City Manager Brady had no comments.
Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 21 of 22
CITY ATTORNEY'S COMMENTS
City Attorney Leibold had no comments.
COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS
Commissioner Morsch thanked Commissioner O'Neal for taking the time to write
the letter to the Governor regarding the City's Redevelopment Agency and
indicated that he thought that it is important for the City's Planning Commission
to object to the dissolving of the Redevelopment Agencies. He also
congratulated Mr. Brady on the extension of his contract and stated that although
it may premature, looks forward to working with him and noted that he is doing a
good job and is well respected in this community.
Commissioner Jordan thanked staff for all of their hard work and appreciates the
work they do. She indicated that she doesn't mean to be hard on staff but she is
a stickler about certain things and is protecting the City in the City's best interest.
She indicated that she would e-mail staff with any questions, prior to the Planning
Commission meeting.
Planning Consultant Coury indicated that e- mailing is good because they can
respond in writing to the Commissioners.
Commissioner O'Neal requested Susan Reid's e-mail address.
City Attorney Leibold indicated that Susan Reid's e-mail address is:
sreid @lake - elsinore.org.
Commissioner O'Neal asked that Ms. Reid put the letter he drafted on the City's
stationary and requested that all of the legislators get copies also.
City Manager Brady confirmed that the letter would be completed and copies will
be forwarded to all legislators as well as the City Council.
Vice Chairman Mendoza thanked staff for their hard work and also wanted to
thank John Herrera, the City's Information Technology Technician for his help
with setting up his e-mail and mentioned how patient and upbeat Mr. Herrera is.
City Manager Brady indicated that Mr. Herrera is a very good employee.
Commissioner Jordan seconded that and indicated that he helped her get back
on e-mail.
Chairman Gonzales reminded the Commissioners that their Form 700 has to be
turned into the City Clerk's office.
Lake Elsinore Planning Commission Meeting
Regular Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2011
Page 22 of 22
Commissioner O'Neal stated that he did not receive the Form 700 and mentioned
that in the past it has been mailed to his home.
It was noted by staff and the Planning Commission that the next Planning
Commission meeting to be held on March 15, 2011, would be cancelled.
Chairman Gonzales closed the meeting in memory of those in Christ Church, a
Church that was destroyed in South Island, New Zealand, where he spent time in
the past.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the Planning Commission,
Chairman Gonzales adjourned the meeting at 8:10 p.m.
The next regular meeting of the Planning Commission of the City of Lake
Elsinore is scheduled for Tuesday, April 5, 2011, at 6:00 p.m. in the Cultural
Center located at 183 N. Main Street, Lake Elsinore, CA 92530.
Respectfully Submitted,
L ino
Kristine Herrington
Office Specialist
Attest:
— Z&/J�
obert A. B ady
City Manager